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VRR doubles input lag on some TVs  (Read 519 times)

Offline Oskool

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VRR doubles input lag on some TVs
« on: 11:04 PM - 12/29/21 »
I remember a few people saying VRR (variable refresh rate) on Xbox adds input lag. Turns out this is true for some TV's such as the Sony X900H. Input lag more than doubles from 6.5ms with VRR off, to 14.3ms with VRR on at 120fps.

Sony X900H LCD TV input lag measurements

Source: HDTVTest

The reason for this is the TV actually runs at 60Hz instead of 120Hz when VRR is on. Yet the TV will falsely report it's running at 120Hz.

Yellow truck more blurry with VRR on compared to VRR off at 120Hz

Source: HDTVTest

To top things off, local dimming is also disabled in VRR mode and 4K resolution is halved on the vertical axis from 3840x2160 down to 3840x1080 in 120Hz mode.

None of this is caused by the Xbox or VRR itself. It's the TV's firmware implementation of VRR that's causing it.

Just thought I'd share this because I've seen people say turning VRR on with Xbox causes input lag. Turns out Xbox isn't causing this, it's the TV.

I was shocked to discover how bad VRR is on some TVs. I mean who would expect their TV is running in 60Hz mode when Xbox is set to 120Hz mode?! Or that their TV is running at 3840x1080 resolution instead of 3840x2160. You can't believe anything the TV or Xbox settings are telling you, it's all false information! The TV is at fault, not Xbox.

He has another video explaining how TV manufacturers can also label a TV as HDMI 2.1 without the TV supporting a single HDMI 2.1 feature. That's right, not a single feature in the HDMI 2.1 spec, but it has a HDMI 2.1 sticker on the side of the box.

There's misleading advertisement going on in the TV market, and probably monitor market too. The only way to know if a TV actually supports ANY HDMI 2.1 features is to completely ignore the HDMI 2.1 sticker on the box because that's meaningless, and look instead for features listed such as VRR, eARC, etc.

« Last Edit: 07:28 PM - 12/30/21 by Oskool »

Offline Dodge

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Re: VRR doubles input lag on some TVs
« Reply #1 on: 06:11 AM - 12/31/21 »
VRR is bad on a monitor too. I turned it off and when freesync was activated on the monitor, I didn't notice any difference in quality compared to VRR. I don't use VRR. Less input lag is more important to me.

Offline dpk_ydv

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Re: VRR doubles input lag on some TVs
« Reply #2 on: 01:24 AM - 01/03/22 »
VRR is bad on a monitor too. I turned it off and when freesync was activated on the monitor, I didn't notice any difference in quality compared to VRR. I don't use VRR. Less input lag is more important to me.
I wanted to purchase a HDMI 2.1 monitor just for the VRR using PS5. The other features don't matter to me because my target is just 1080p @120Hz. So do you suggest for [email protected] I just get a HDMI 2.0 monitor instead, since VRR on HDMI 2.1 would only add more input lag?

Offline Dodge

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Re: VRR doubles input lag on some TVs
« Reply #3 on: 07:18 AM - 01/03/22 »
VRR is bad on a monitor too. I turned it off and when freesync was activated on the monitor, I didn't notice any difference in quality compared to VRR. I don't use VRR. Less input lag is more important to me.
I wanted to purchase a HDMI 2.1 monitor just for the VRR using PS5. The other features don't matter to me because my target is just 1080p @120Hz. So do you suggest for [email protected] I just get a HDMI 2.0 monitor instead, since VRR on HDMI 2.1 would only add more input lag?

for 1080p you don't need an hdmi 2.1. 1.4 is enough for VRR at 1080p. Maybe you want to use vrr in a single player game, I'll turn it off in competitive mp games.

Edit: but check the specs of the Monitor and whether he supports 120hz via hdmi 1.4.
« Last Edit: 07:27 AM - 01/03/22 by Dodge »

Offline dpk_ydv

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Re: VRR doubles input lag on some TVs
« Reply #4 on: 12:35 PM - 01/03/22 »
Thanks for the reply.

As per the below article on TFT central, PS5 might only support HDMI-VRR using HDMI 2.1. 

https://tftcentral.co.uk/articles/console_monitors

So I was really confused whether to buy HDMI 2.1 monitor, because the other features of HDMI 2.1 like [email protected], ALLM are not necessary for me, but VRR would be good.

Sony has been updating their TV's for VRR, and I hope they roll out VRR on PS5 pretty soon. That should provide more clarity if HDMI 2.1 would be a must have.

Offline Od1n

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Re: VRR doubles input lag on some TVs
« Reply #5 on: 01:21 PM - 01/03/22 »
I love that Youtube channel, probably the best and most well thought TV reviews you can find on Youtube.
Plus the guy always stuffs in some funny and unexpected puns haha.

Thanks for the post, i usually only check out his channel once a month to see whats new.
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Offline Dodge

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Re: VRR doubles input lag on some TVs
« Reply #6 on: 01:36 AM - 01/04/22 »
Thanks for the reply.

As per the below article on TFT central, PS5 might only support HDMI-VRR using HDMI 2.1. 

https://tftcentral.co.uk/articles/console_monitors

So I was really confused whether to buy HDMI 2.1 monitor, because the other features of HDMI 2.1 like [email protected], ALLM are not necessary for me, but VRR would be good.

Sony has been updating their TV's for VRR, and I hope they roll out VRR on PS5 pretty soon. That should provide more clarity if HDMI 2.1 would be a must have.

Slowly it gets complicated with these HDMI standards. My monitor has 2x 1.4 HDMI connections. Can deliver 120hz and freesync via these at 1080p. With the Xbox then also VRR, which is actually HDMI 2.0? Maybe it's best to wait until Sony rolls out the VRR update.

Offline Oskool

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Re: VRR doubles input lag on some TVs
« Reply #7 on: 10:01 PM - 01/05/22 »
HDMI Forum VRR requires a HDMI 2.1 port to work and is a specification developed by the HDMI Forum, a group of 83 companies working to create a single HDMI specification.

FreeSync VRR is different from HDMI Forum VRR. They are two seperate specifications and are not cross compatible with each other. AMD created the FreeSync VRR specification all by themself, similar to how Nvidia created the Gsync VRR specification all by themself also.

It's true that FreeSync and Gsync 'can sometimes' also work over HDMI ports, but they are different specifications than HDMI Forum VRR and all three specifications are not cross compatible with each other. FreeSync VRR, Gsync VRR, and HDMI Forum VRR are not cross compatible.

You must make sure the TV or monitor you're buying supports the VRR specification you want, FreeSync VRR, Gsync VRR, or HDMI Forum VRR.

Also keep in mind that just because a TV or monitor has a HDMI 2.1 port, doesn't automatically mean it supports HDMI Forum VRR, or FreeSync VRR, or Gsync VRR for that matter. You have to double check which features are actually supported.

Personally, I never buy a TV or monitor without reading reviews about it first. The Sony X900H LCD TV is a perfect example because the screen only refreshes at 60Hz in HDMI Forum VRR mode despite having a 120Hz panel, and it can't display true 4K resolution at 120Hz despite having a 4K panel.

I'm a huge fan of VRR. If implemented correctly into a TV/monitor it won't increase input lag and will eliminate screen tearing and Vsync stutter. It all depends on how well the TV/monitor manufacturer implements it into their products, which is why reading reviews before dropping hundreds or thousands of dollars on a product is a wise decision.

Xbox supports both FreeSync VRR and HDMI Forum VRR TVs and monitors. So far Sony has only announced future support for HDMI Forum VRR. It wouldn't surprise me if it's the only VRR specification they plan on supporting. Meaning FreeSync VRR monitors probably won't work on PlayStation 5.
« Last Edit: 07:41 PM - 01/11/22 by Oskool »

Offline antithesis

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Re: VRR doubles input lag on some TVs
« Reply #8 on: 10:06 PM - 01/06/22 »
Freesync VRR works fine over HDMI 2.0 from Series X direct to a screen. Where it comes unstuck is on HDMI 2.0 switches & splitters that aren't made to support VRR.

VRR sounds good, but it's really not needed. Series X runs at a buttery smooth 1440p 120Hz without VRR.

I have VRR disabled because it can cause screen tearing when streaming to Twitch, YouTube etc. VRR will smooth things out on your screen, but not for viewers on the streaming video feed.

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Offline Dodge

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Re: VRR doubles input lag on some TVs
« Reply #9 on: 01:32 AM - 01/07/22 »
Freesync VRR works fine over HDMI 2.0 from Series X direct to a screen. Where it comes unstuck is on HDMI 2.0 switches & splitters that aren't made to support VRR.

VRR sounds good, but it's really not needed. Series X runs at a buttery smooth 1440p 120Hz without VRR.

I have VRR disabled because it can cause screen tearing when streaming to Twitch, YouTube etc. VRR will smooth things out on your screen, but not for viewers on the streaming video feed.

I also had to find out. I used an Astro Splitter, then VRR was grayed out. Freesync was still active on the monitor, but I can't say whether it really had an effect. In BFV and Vanguard, it runs super smoothly with 120 FPS even without VRR and Freesync.




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