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[RESOLVED] Oct. Controller Update:Devices non-functional until hard reboot of X1  (Read 505 times)

Offline AltF4

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UPDATE 2: [TLDR "FIX"] -- As per Mist, you must Revert the controller firmware while the controller is plugged directly into the Xbox
1) Unplug XIM & Plug controller directly into Xbox
2) Open Xbox Assist from games & apps
3) Get Help (top left)
4) Console & Accessories > Controller > My controller has connection issues after the last update > Check controller firmware > Revert firmware

Cause of this entire problem:
> I updated the Controller while plugged into the XIM Apex (*without thinking*). *** DO NOT DO THIS ***
You must consciously UNPLUG it and go directly into the Xbox itself!


UPDATE 1: [TLDR “workaround”] for future XIM users, if you too have tried different cables, Apex Backup + Factory Reset, etc and input is registering but being eaten and not passed:
- time to buy a new controller, and ditch your current, especially if you are experiencing this with Xbox One Controller Model 1708
- don’t apply controller firmware updates thru XIM Apex (unclear if this was causation or not)
- update that new controller with the latest firmware (plugged into the Xbox directly! Consciously Unplug from the XIM)
- obvious but: Ensure you utilize the Apex Beta Firmware in Chill Boards

--------------------

[TLDR]:  After an XIM unplug or any other power off/loss KBD & M Input always stops working since controller update in Oct 2021 (OTHER than Guide-bound key... like what-the-heck)  |   Updated FW for Apex without improvement or unimprovement   |   Guide tapping doesn't help  |   4x Green lights always show  |   Requires 20-30 minutes of controller on-and-offs  and hard power cycles to hit the lotto, and then keep always powered on   |   Once its working it keeps working until power loss or unplugged   |   Cycle starts over upon power loss ==>  *Major Sad Face*



Hello. Non-noob here and have been resisting asking for help, but this has been driving me mad.

The October 2021 XBOne controller update kept pestering me each startup (made you go into it, opt out, and then back out; for each xbox power on), so I went ahead and did it... but I have been hating life since.
Now upon any unplug of the XIM Apex from the xbox itself OR a power off / on (irregardless of: Soft off setting, Hard off setting, or entire power cycle power cord removal), my peripherals refuse to provide any input OTHER than the keyboard key that is mapped to Guide (backspace), which will have it appear, and then tapping again, disappear. NO OTHER INPUT WORKS indefinitely

I've read over every other topic regarding this recently since the controller update released, and all suggestions have not helped. To get things to work, it requires 20 minutes of painful controller on-and-offs everytime I turn the xbox back on. I've resorted to leaving the box on 24/7 once I do my hack-around, below, (with 10% success rate) but obviously sometimes the XIM Apex needs to be unplugged, or the power needs to be killed, and with that comes another painstaking reattempt process of getting this to work by following these steps until it does

Hackaround [aka... Definition of insanity -- which eventually works]
- Press & Hold Backspace (odd: this works on the Kbd but nothing else) OR Guide on controller
- Turn controller off via GUI
- Unplug, plug back in
- Tap Backspace (Guide) repeatedly (quicker doesn't seem help more) and even after seeing the green authentication lights flash ~ 4 times quickly.
- If this doesn't work, hard reboot via Power Cable and do this again.
- Repeat 12+ times until it "begins to work"


^ FML right !?




-- A few things to note --

- I DO see the green initialization lights, but based on ObsiV's suggestion in the beta firmware thread, I have tried a variety of combinations from tapping guide, holding guide, or tapping & holding the Guide-mapped button on my KBD (in this case backspace) -- https://community.xim.tech/index.php?topic=96645.msg855869#msg855869

- All controller input works & the controller is not wirelessly connecting from what I can tell since it attempts to sync if I rip out the microusb from it.

- ONLY the key to bring of the Xbox Guide is passed thru, nothing more. I find this highly suspect that nothing else from any other key or mouse input gets sent.. It feels like it's some sort of authentication issue, but I am not expert.

- It is NOT a battery issue, with changing them out

- Doing the obvious things like unplugging the peripherals doesn't help. The correct items are plugged into the correct "dots" as well (1 = Mouse  |  2 = KBD  |  3 = Controller)

- I've reset the controller via wireless, then turn it off, and then have it connect via wired.

- It never does not just work per power off & on or xim unplug, or said differently: it always does NOT work / I always experience this per unplug now post controller firmware update. This rarely, if ever, happened prior to this

- Once its working via algorithm attempt above, it keeps working until power loss or unplugged.

- It is NOT a Micro-USB cable issue (as best as I can tell thru troubleshooting) as the one I have been utilizing has been working amazing since 2018, but I have also tried other HQ ones.

- I've investigated thru lengthy other posts of similar issues here from Oct 2021 but without any luck. Ex, this one -- https://community.xim.tech/index.php?topic=96814.msg857707#msg857707

- Nothing has changed OTHER THAN the controller firmware, in which case these problems started exactly after such, and also other than now having newer flashed firmware thinking that would have helped, yet no luck.

- At this rate I would like to go back to the old firmware on the controller and deal with the persistent power-on screen nag and manually back out, because that takes 2minutes rather than 20 :/


I'm out of ideas here and hope that ObsiV or Mist4Fun can comment with some deeper technical debugging steps I can try next.



Edit:
It would appear that I am not alone in this, and many other XIM Apex (and XIM 4) users are experiencing this same problem from the sound of it, including "only the key to press Guide works...", etc.

I suspect this is some sort of bug with the controller firmware update. There doesn't appear to be a way to downgrade firmwares. I suppose the best we can do is wait for a new Beta Firmware release from the XIM team here if they can repro the issue, and until then try best to not power cycle or unplug the device once it becomes working after enough Hard Power Cycles + Controller switch off & ons

:-(
« Last Edit: 05:37 PM - 11/24/21 by mist4fun »

Offline AltF4

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RE: Guide pressing recommendation in other threads…

Not sure if cleanup work is being done from replies in other threads (NP if so), but I’ll post here what I posted elsewhere regarding Guide Pressing & Timing, just to not lose it.

I have yet to have the Guide tap / press “fix” this. For me It always requires a series of hard power cycles followed by multiple controller On and Offs to get it working before the next soft power off, or XIM unplug, following this d*mn controller firmware update.

Regarding my issue in my thread, the Guide-mapped key actually works on my KBD and in fact it’s the ONLY input that works even as far as a mouse goes, until this sequence of 10-20min attempts is performed. This tells me something is being blocked or is inherently wrong / not authenticating correctly, despite obtaining the correct LED sequence with 4x green as you have described in other threads.

I will see if there is precise timing making any difference but I’ve tapped Guide once… pressed and held… and even rapidly like I’m F8 Safe Mode-ing that my life depends on it; without any change in results. I won’t hijack this thread since I have my own, but wanted to mention this.

Curious though (from you or ObsiV) what this Guide tap does for the controller with new firmware; and also how internally it’s suppose to work, especially since it’s getting input, just not seemingly passing it thru unless it’s the Guide-bound-key itself. Feels like the controller now “knows” and is pissed about being in an XIM input simulation.

I also feel that this isn’t isolated given going back into other support topics and seeing ppl experience this with devices even like XIM4 post controller update. I’m it sure if this is just a specific combo of controller-to-XBOne console issue but it’s tempting to get another controller (or 2) and see what happens, or even another console if there was more XSS and XSX availability :/

Offline mist4fun

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- I DO see the green initialization lights, but based on ObsiV's suggestion in the beta firmware thread, I have tried a variety of combinations from tapping guide, holding guide, or tapping & holding the Guide-mapped button on my KBD (in this case backspace) -- https://community.xim.tech/index.php?topic=96645.msg855869#msg855869

You've mentioned using the guide mapped button, the guide button from the controller should be pressed. Are you pressing the controller's guide button too?

To be clear this is an Xbox One controller, not an Xbox Series "Core" controller?

Could you please share the firmware version number found in Manger's menu-about? Thanks!
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Offline AltF4

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Hey Mist. Woohoo, thanks for checking in.

> For sure this is an Xbox One, with a standard Xbox One controller with an Aux port. Controller purchased around 2016 or 2017 I want to say. Perfect operation with XIM from 2016 thru Oct 2021 until I caved in and did this *very regrettable* update of the Xbox Controller Firmware.
Note: I believe I am opted into insider builds of Xbox One OS’ FWIW. But I didn’t think things are too new in the pipeline due to XSS and XSX taking precedence.

> Re: guide pressing, I’ve tried both. Tons of combinations of actual Controller Guide, Key-bound Guide, both, and none whereby resorting to hard power cycles and controller offs (being the most “reliable” if I can call it that)

> Yea the firmware is the latest Beta which I updated to as soon as I did this silly MS Controller Firmware update.
XIM Beta Ver: 20211012



I welcome experimental debug builds if you want me to test anything. Developer myself.
My eyes have glued to the Beta board hoping eventually something that shows 2021”11” is released, haha!
 
« Last Edit: 06:19 PM - 11/19/21 by AltF4 »

Offline mist4fun

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Thanks, do you remember if APEX was connected during the update? If so, are you able to update the controller again without APEX connected?

I don't see it mentioned in your posts but have you been able to factory reset APEX and verify the beta Manager is installed as well?
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Offline AltF4

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Thanks, do you remember if APEX was connected during the update? If so, are you able to update the controller again without APEX connected?

I don't see it mentioned in your posts but have you been able to factory reset APEX and verify the beta Manager is installed as well?


Apex WAS connected for the controller update (that is: the controller via USB was indeed plugged into the Apex Hub port 3). Should I try (if possible?) to force-update the controller without the Apex connected, ie controller plugged in wired to a different USB port?

I have not tried the nuclear option of entire Apex Factory Reset, for fear of losing all configs, but will if that is the next logical step you believe should be taken and may possibly help if the above force-update doesn’t suffice. Should I then? **eek*

Offline mist4fun

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Yes if that's possible. PC also allows you to update controller firmware using the Xbox app. Try both if one doesn't allow you to update again.

APEX shouldn't be connected during controller updates.

About the reset, yes it's worth trying but you can take steps to make it less painful. First, backup each config to code by clicking the copy button in the config's Identity section. It's good to do this anyway, I store mine in Keep notes. This is more reliable than a full backup with the flash tool which can become corrupt. After the reset check if this happens using a newly created config before restoring your old configs.
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Offline AltF4

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Yes if that's possible. PC also allows you to update controller firmware using the Xbox app. Try both if one doesn't allow you to update again.

APEX shouldn't be connected during controller updates.

About the reset, yes it's worth trying but you can take steps to make it less painful. First, backup each config to code by clicking the copy button in the config's Identity section. It's good to do this anyway, I store mine in Keep notes. This is more reliable than a full backup with the flash tool which can become corrupt. After the reset check if this happens using a newly created config before restoring your old configs.

Thank you Mist for the homework. I will try these tonight and get back to ya!
Good callout about the controller being plugged into the PC and trying the firmware update there too. Appreciate your help!

Offline AltF4

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And... the verdict... no dice!

> Forcing update of the controller while it is NOT plugged into the Apex, but rather directly into the Xbox -- Update was successful, but the same behavior still occurred.

> Next went the nuclear option of Factory Reset after a config backup, and then restore. Still the same result!

I meant to also note that any input is passed thru / allowed for 3 total seconds, before it completely stops and only allows Guide to be passed (this was the same behavior as before).
« Last Edit: 01:17 AM - 11/22/21 by AltF4 »

Offline AltF4

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I am really hoping this is something that ObsiV and Mist can resolve via another firmware update in the near future.

Unless the solution is for us in this situation to purchase another controller and NEVER update its firmware everytime it forces you thru to back out :-(.

If you guys have any updates or testing on your end that reproduces this, please keep me updated. The frustration continues (not with you guys, but just in general with this situation). 90% of the time I give up within the 30minutes of attempts and just don't play anymore.

Everything in the system (cables, controller function itself, XIM itself) definitely works, because input works for about 2-3 seconds before it "shuts off" after every XIM unplug. And then when "hitting the right note" with pressing Guide at precisely the correct second, hard power cycles the correct number of times, crossing all fingers and toes, and praying to the XIM Gods, it works and can work perfectly for hours / days until god-forbid a power loss or xbox self-reboot, in which case the attempt process starts all over.

 :'( :'( :'(



Question for ObsiV -- What exactly is happing during this 4x Green light authorization. Could you please provide more details on why this is required now / what sort of change they performed within the controller firmware update?


Heres my current algorithm:

Repeat the following per Power cycle / XIM unplug (controller unplug / power off appears OK as long as authenticated at 1st with the 4x green lights), because after each XIM powerloss, the XIM will always never work to simulate controller input until you get lucky enough to time this Guide press exactly, as I will note below.

00. ENSURE Keyboard is plugged in (there can be times where it is only halfway and getting power (illuminated), but not sending data). Test this via pressing a key bound to Guide (the only key-bind that works during all non-functional input). If it does then proceed

0. Take the batteries out of the controller. This way it powers off the controller when unplugging the XIM (2 for 1)



1. Unplug and plug back in XIM.

2. Directly AFTER (takes millisecond-like timing to get accurate of not too soon or too late) the 4 green flashing lights, press Guide (on the controller) twice or at most 3x times. Do NOT perform this on the Guide-bound Key for some input device (like a keyboard), since this is not sufficient to make this work)

3.
- If input works other than with the only-working Guide-bound button (such as via arrow keys or anything else to navigate menus), then CONGRATULATIONS!
- If it does not, start back at 1 to unplug and plug back in, being VERY READY on the timing to tap Guide 2 or 3 times


Notes:

a) Don't be fooled: Testing the input too soon will result in a false positive. Input works for the first few seconds until the green init light where it no longer does!

b) Don't over tap: Spamming (rapidly pressing) Guide multiple times appears to make it definitely not work. The key is to press 2 times. It as worked with 3. However, Once appears to NOT be sufficient

c) Timing of the 3 taps: There is a SPECIFIC timing of about 1/2 second directly after the Green initialiation light. It must be immediately after the 4x green lights. No sooner or later otherwise such will fail

d) Insufficient:
d1). unplugging the controller and plugging back is not a solution. This appears OK only after the 4x green lights during initial XIM plug in, whereby the input was authenticated.

d2). As mentioned above, this requires Controller Guide taps, NOT a working Guide-bound input button

e) XIM-only power cycles appear to be enough (as long as no batteries exist in controller)

Further tests indicate power cyles may not be neccessary to help better acheive "luck". It's more about "lucky" timing and can be repeated (x) number of times until getting it correct by unplugging the XIM Apex from the USB port, plugging it back in and watching it, all while ready for the 2-3 taps.

Also without having batteries in the controller, better success rates appear present since it doesn't require turning off and on the controller via the GUI.

f) Repeated Factory Resets & Forced controller updates do NOT help any to create better success rates.
« Last Edit: 12:10 PM - 11/22/21 by AltF4 »

Offline mist4fun

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Thanks for all of the info, we are looking into this.

Could you share whether your input is recognized in Manager's HUD when it's not working?

Also, if your remove the controller battery and connect the controller directly to the console, does input from your controller work with the console?
« Last Edit: 12:08 PM - 11/22/21 by mist4fun »
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Offline AltF4

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Mist, yes to both questions.

The input is reflected in the HUD always, but seems to be eaten with not getting “forwarded / simulated” thru, unless it’s a Guide key bound button, which always works.

The controller always works whether in the situation or not. As per with your test there, the only thing I have to do is press the guide to power it on, due to no batteries, when switching to the other USB port (during this input failing situation). But controller still works 

Awesome to hear it’s being looked into. I look forward to helping where I can to resolve this highly inconvenient problem for me and probably others alike.
I guess it’s possible that the initial firmware update while plugged into the XIM COULD maybe have hosed my unit to never properly authenticate, but I have force reflashed it, and also the entire system works fine if the precise timing can be done of catching the guide presses in the 4-green-light Goldilocks zone

Offline mist4fun

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Thank you, could you please share the controller firmware version number found in Settings > Devices & Connections > Accessories.
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Offline OBsIV

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Also, please let us know if you plug the controller directly into your XIM APEX (without the hub) if the controller is functional that way.
Get the most out of your XIM APEX, read the XIM APEX Support FAQ.

Offline AltF4

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Thank you, could you please share the controller firmware version number found in Settings > Devices & Connections > Accessories.

The Firmware version of this Xbox One controller is 5.11.3118.0


Also, please let us know if you plug the controller directly into your XIM APEX (without the hub) if the controller is functional that way.

Hi OBsIV, thanks for coming in! Man I hope we can resolve this.
Yes indeed, the controller input itself always works no matter how its plugged in or connected (batteries or not | XIM or not)


Sidenote: Testing attempts now on Series S (Brand new Xbox)...
FWIW I just went out and purchased an ENTIRELY NEW XBOX today for this darn issue. All of these above tests have been performed on my "old" Xbox One. So I purchased a brand new Xbox Series S and IT TOO is experiencing the SAME behavior. I cannot tell you what the controller firmware version is (yet) for this Series S controller because xbox wants to update it without giving up any info.
Going further I figured... maybe it's this latest beta XIM Firmware which is defective '20211012' (just a theory, perhaps based on code changes for this new controller auth), so I went back to a non-beta '20200307' as a Factory Reset Downgrade. But this was too far back to have either the firmware-updated XBOne controller nor the non-updated Xbox Series S controller be detected by XIM at all. I guess if I were to proceed further, I would need a flash tool from the prior Beta version before this one, but its not clear if that even supported Xbox Series S.
I have yet to even get the Guide-tap timing yet on this Series S to make it work, but I wonder if it requires applying the one-way controller firmware update, which this current XIM firmware '20211012' expects (maybe?), but I am reluctant to do so, since a controller update is one-way, and that theory wouldn't be testable if doing so, if y'all send me an XIM Apex FirmwareVer-- (which I would surely try to test that before updating this controller.)
« Last Edit: 08:46 PM - 11/22/21 by AltF4 »