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Is this gen really just like last gen?  (Read 503 times)

Offline Phil Ashio

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Is this gen really just like last gen?
« on: 12:16 PM - 01/12/21 »
I mean in the sense that the hardware released isn't up to task. Last gen when PS4 and Xbox One launched they were notorious for having weak CPUs that hindered the entire generation. This gen you might look at the specs and think they're powerful systems until you realize that they're mediocre at ray tracing which is the main next-gen feature. You compare Watch Dogs Legions on PS5/XSX to PC and there's almost a generational difference in quality and it's running at 30 fps on consoles.

The big difference is that it's a lot easier to upgrade a GPU on mid-gen refreshes than a CPU so we might actually see a big leap in visual quality in a few years.   
"MW ST1 users are an inferior species and an evolutionary abomination" - On the Origin of Species, Charles Darwin

Offline antithesis

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Re: Is this gen really just like last gen?
« Reply #1 on: 04:27 PM - 01/12/21 »
I don't care about puddles, I care about 120FPS. On that basis, I'm happy enough with next-gen console specs. Or I will be once PS5 ponies up for 1440p.

4K @ 120FPS on console hardware is tantamount to false advertising. Sure, we'll get 120FPS @ 4K console, as long as you don't care about poor graphics &/or upscaling. PS4 could handle 4 @ 60FPS, but only in small indie games, which should have been a red flag leading into this gen.

An RTX 3090 GPU is the only way most PC games will come close to pushing 4K @ 120FPS without significant sacrifices to visual quality. 4K @ 30FPS is a more accurate benchmark for console gaming. Drop the resolution down to 1440p and most games should hit 60FPS no problems, 120FPS with ray-tracing disabled.

As with all tech product releases, set expectations to "meh" and you won't be disappointed.
« Last Edit: 04:36 PM - 01/12/21 by antithesis »

Official Australian distributor for XIM APEX, Titan One & Titan Two at Mod Squad
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Offline Phil Ashio

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Re: Is this gen really just like last gen?
« Reply #2 on: 12:33 PM - 01/14/21 »
See, even the arguments are the same. Dismissing advancement in world immersion as "puddles" and fixating on resolution as if that's what's being discussed.

Also, and this is probably not a popular opinion, but I'm not really a fan of these performance vs visuals options. They don't feel like freedom of choice but more like picking a less unappealing compromise. I wish devs would just spend the time optimizing the game to be the best of both worlds and added a secret future proof advanced option that would unlock when a game detected more powerful hardware.   
"MW ST1 users are an inferior species and an evolutionary abomination" - On the Origin of Species, Charles Darwin

Offline antithesis

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Re: Is this gen really just like last gen?
« Reply #3 on: 04:17 PM - 01/14/21 »
I don't see ray-tracing as the big next-gen console feature. That's the big next-gen PC GPU feature and you pay through the nose for it. That and genuine 4K @ 60FPS gaming, which most GPUs are still incapable of doing.

For me, 1440p @ 120FPS is the next-gen console feature, which aligns console performance with mid-range, 3 to 4 year old PC performance.

If $3000 (AUD) Nvidia GPUs are barely capable of ray-tracing at 4K without significant compromises to performance, why would you think a $750 (AUD) console with an AMD GPU would come anywhere near close to pulling it off?

Consoles are cheap PCs, so set expectations appropriately. Performance-mode is a cop-out to counter the "4K, 120Hz, Ray Tracing" marketese, but really, what did you expect?

Honestly, I'm just happy with a bump to 1440p @ 60FPS. It was plain as day that 4K was never going to push more than 30FPS on a console with all bells & whistles enabled.
« Last Edit: 04:22 PM - 01/14/21 by antithesis »

Official Australian distributor for XIM APEX, Titan One & Titan Two at Mod Squad
XIM APEX demos on Twitch and YouTube. Follow Twitter for live stream alerts

Online AgentSmith

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Re: Is this gen really just like last gen?
« Reply #4 on: 03:24 AM - 01/15/21 »
Quote
I mean in the sense that the hardware released isn't up to task.

Interesting point...


If it wasn't for the release of the Nvidia 30 series the XBSX would be on equal terms to almost the best gfx card on the market. with the entire console being around half the price of that single PC component.

I have a 2080ti  in my gaming PC and it doesn't play games noticeably any better than the XBSX @1080P and I would not consider my PC capable of a constant 120fps @1440p.

Something to be noted: 
My PC is doing more than just running the game where the console really isn't.

Offline xyphonic

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Re: Is this gen really just like last gen?
« Reply #5 on: 04:35 AM - 01/15/21 »
Could this new generation of consoles be faster? Sure

Could they be faster for $500?  No

Do I feel like I'm getting $500 worth of performance from my PS5?  Absolutely. 
XIM Apex | PS5 | Qanba Pearl | GPW | PS Nav | PS GWH

Offline MrBrutalFrosty

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Re: Is this gen really just like last gen?
« Reply #6 on: 05:41 AM - 01/15/21 »
tbh im happy with my ps5 and the 120hz preformance in cold war for the price it was worth it raytracing would be cool but for me its not a deal breaker i had a change of heart thats for sure i got stuck in the hype that 4k and raytracing with everything maxed out would be sick but in the end im happy playing 1080 120hz slaying kids on cod. I also love how fast everything loads and how easy it is to record and upload video with the option of 4k recording at 30 or 1080 60 im saving another $250 min there just on a elgato alone thats a free inclusion with the Ps5 id say they have done well so far

Offline noregretd

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Re: Is this gen really just like last gen?
« Reply #7 on: 11:53 AM - 01/15/21 »
I have been PC gaming since 1996. PC games used to dictate the market. Consoles were mostly for Mario/Sonic and play sports games with friends on a couch. PC gaming now does not make sense. Rampant cheating (wall hacks, aim bots, etc), all of it can be easily purchased on-line. No need to even go to dark web. Consoles dictate the market now with very few exceptions - Star Citizen (which will probably not get released in the next 5 years anyway).

I have the money to buy a $3500 gaming PC. I said "buy", not "build". I used to build PCs for friends/family and myself.  ( I have a BS in Computer Science from a prestigious university). High end GPUs and CPUs are mostly unavailable now. I would rather have MainGear build me a PC without paying the scalper prices. Also, they do not charge sales tax and this is huge on $4000 PC.

New consoles finally have decent CPUs, but are hindered by new old gen games. With the existence of XIM, FPS games are covered. Sure, I can't play Escape from Tarkov or Insurgence or DCS World, but I cannot justify the 6X or 7X times price difference over the PS5 or XBSX and a high end gaming PC.

Back in the 1990s and early 2000s, you had to have a PC for PC gaming. Now, it is all about the eye candy. No one cares about advancements in AI when it comes to enemy intelligence. There is practically no innovation anymore when it comes to game design. Besides, you still might need a gaming console because cheating in PC multiplayer is out of control. So, why the hell would I spend $4000 on a new gaming beast of a PC. As soon as you buy one, the clock of it being obsolete starts ticking very fast.
So, yes, XBSX and PS 5 are almost impossible to beat. My last $2000 MSI gaming laptop was bought in 2013. I just use it now for everyday computer use and type up this post. It's GTX 780M is still good enough to run Photoshop CS 2020 and Capture One Pro 12 (Underwater (scuba) and landscape photography) are my hobbies.
« Last Edit: 12:04 PM - 01/15/21 by noregretd »

Offline noregretd

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Re: Is this gen really just like last gen?
« Reply #8 on: 12:21 PM - 01/15/21 »
Hey MrBrutalFrosty - I have never been to Australia, but I have been to New Zealand and New Caledonia (Noumea and island of Mare). I did the 140 meter Nevis bungee jump  near Queenstown in NZ ( back in 2011). Scuba diving and snorkeling in Mare, New Caledonia was the best in the world. I wish I was there now...

Offline Phil Ashio

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Re: Is this gen really just like last gen?
« Reply #9 on: 06:52 PM - 01/15/21 »
I don't see ray-tracing as the big next-gen console feature. That's the big next-gen PC GPU feature and you pay through the nose for it. That and genuine 4K @ 60FPS gaming, which most GPUs are still incapable of doing.

That statement just supported my point that this console generation is a generation behind just like last gen.

If $3000 (AUD) Nvidia GPUs are barely capable of ray-tracing at 4K without significant compromises to performance, why would you think a $750 (AUD) console with an AMD GPU would come anywhere near close to pulling it off?

Consoles are cheap PCs, so set expectations appropriately. Performance-mode is a cop-out to counter the "4K, 120Hz, Ray Tracing" marketese, but really, what did you expect?

This is a false premise. You know that the business model is completely different on PC and consoles. If you were to build a similar PC to XSX it would probably be around $1500. Hardware manufacturers like Nvidia make their money entirely on the hardware so MSRP will be significantly higher than what it cost to produce.

Personally, I expected a leap in visuals as well as more stable performance, though not necessarily 120hz. 120hz is great but it's not as big of a leap as 30 to 60 and it's not as big of a leap as raytracing vs rasterized rendering and it's not worth the hit to visuals. Performance mode is like saying, "you're not getting next-gen features and your game won't look better than last gen, never mind bottom tier current gen."     

The big issue here is that AMD is so far behind Nvidia who have a much greater and more useful suite of features but console manufacturers are stuck with them. I'm going to leave on the optimistic note that we'll see a bigger gap in visuals between base consoles and mid-gen refreshes than last time in three years due to better raytracing support in three to four years.
"MW ST1 users are an inferior species and an evolutionary abomination" - On the Origin of Species, Charles Darwin

Offline alanmcgregor

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Re: Is this gen really just like last gen?
« Reply #10 on: 08:43 PM - 01/15/21 »
Raytracing is still too unripe IMO, maybe 4th generation, but I agree is going to be adopted eventually but is not the next big thing.

When it comes to glimpsing, what's going to happen to the industry I prefer to look at Nintendo, they seems to be more aware about social trends/changes; yeah they are on purpose behind on hardware but is for a reason besides higher profit margin and reliable hardware that is pretty mature.

Currently console market in general are not competing for shelf space (best hardware = more sales), they goal is focus on the time their users has willing to play or stay with a game, because with a good idea you don't need to invest on high end hardware, look at Among Us. Lightweight easy to access and free to play like Fortnite. Triple AAA gaming is expensive to create and support (hardware), and bad histories like the Cyberpunk 2077 are not helping this segment.

I can see NVIDIA Shield turning into a true Cloud console gaming device eventually but still internet infrastructure is yet to be ready for it. Surrogate terminals I can see those as the new consoles, and the end of the current one as we know it.

But who knows, future seems very uncertain currently in all regards, economy, climate change and of course health.

Offline jd1boo

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Re: Is this gen really just like last gen?
« Reply #11 on: 09:36 PM - 01/15/21 »
Xbox Series X is noticeably more powerful than my 2080 mobile based laptop.  AC Valhalla runs smooth at 1440p 120

Offline MrBrutalFrosty

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Re: Is this gen really just like last gen?
« Reply #12 on: 01:02 AM - 01/16/21 »
Hey MrBrutalFrosty - I have never been to Australia, but I have been to New Zealand and New Caledonia (Noumea and island of Mare). I did the 140 meter Nevis bungee jump  near Queenstown in NZ ( back in 2011). Scuba diving and snorkeling in Mare, New Caledonia was the best in the world. I wish I was there now...

fark you got balls then id never do that haah you realy should come to australia when covids finished flights will be cheaper to as they would want to get the system flowing again. Australia and new zealand are both amazing places to live thats for sure we are lucky

Offline alanmcgregor

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Re: Is this gen really just like last gen?
« Reply #13 on: 03:17 PM - 01/16/21 »
Xbox Series X is noticeably more powerful than my 2080 mobile based laptop.  AC Valhalla runs smooth at 1440p 120
Granted a 2080 mobile is more about 20-30% lower performance than a desktop 2080 Super, and AC Valhalla is a terrible awful optimize game, yeah this current gen specifically with XBSX is more afforable and wise than building a budget gaming PC, for two years or maybe more... this COVID era, and issues with production with the new technologies, we might see a very significant slow-down.

Offline noregretd

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Re: Is this gen really just like last gen?
« Reply #14 on: 08:45 AM - 01/19/21 »
Hey MrBrutalFrosty - I have never been to Australia, but I have been to New Zealand and New Caledonia (Noumea and island of Mare). I did the 140 meter Nevis bungee jump  near Queenstown in NZ ( back in 2011). Scuba diving and snorkeling in Mare, New Caledonia was the best in the world. I wish I was there now...

fark you got balls then id never do that haah you realy should come to australia when covids finished flights will be cheaper to as they would want to get the system flowing again. Australia and new zealand are both amazing places to live thats for sure we are lucky

I would love to go to Australia, but it does not look like it will be happening anytime soon. Honestly , 50m bungee in Thailand was much scarier than the 140m jump in New Zealand. ( I did it twice). I also did skydiving in Pennsylvania, USA.


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