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Wooting One/Two Vs Simulate Analog Behavior firmware  (Read 783 times)

Offline TommyToeTags

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Hey, longtime xim user here, never made a post but have done a book's worth of reading on these forums. Finally decided to make an account because I cannot find a topic regarding this debate.

I've heard a lot of talk about wooting keyboards paired with xim apex here but really can't find much testimonial for many games or an accurate pool of data that would give me some sort of conclusion as whether to continue using SAB at different values or just bite the bullet and purchase a wooting.

Does anyone have experience going from a digital kb using SAB, to buying a wooting keyboard and having more consistent results and improvement with their left stick aim assist?

For the record I refuse to make the switch to a G13, NAV, Azeron, Tartarus as I've played FPS on keyboard for the last 15 years and making that transition is not something I want to spend time learning.

I'm curious to see if movements are more precise on an analog keyboard versus just relying on "randomization strength of the code" measured on a scale of 200%  ???

I'm aware analog provides motion that isn't pegged from 0-100 but I'm also aware that SAB does provide this balance but also will randomly create movements that are off the axis you are activating. (eg.) you strafe left and right but a forward and backwards movement gets thrown into the input. And yes I'm not new to the firmware, this is more than just a sprint cancel issue (i don't use sab in hip EVER) - this occurs in ADS profiles as well as recoil control auxiliaries. I'd also like to point out that there is a HUGE difference between SAB 0% and OFF- at 0% there is still sway either when making quick strafes side to side or back and forth.

Essentially, I want to confirm that a wooting does have ramp up values to movement but does NOT have random axis changing. I'm VERY interested to know if anyone has had more success with wooting on games like Apex Legends or Overwatch.

Or if someone can link me to antithesis's review on the keyboards himself because I've been searching and i'll I've seen him write years ago that he has had one unopened in a box and that he's tested left analog aim assist behavior on games like Destiny and logically wrecked some naysayer cod player with his early data from consoletuner experimentation.

Any thoughts, impressions, questions of clarity are welcome.

Hell - throw your SAB values in for the games you play or just share your experience with left stick rotaional aim assist, I really want to get lots of POV's from other users.

Offline TommyToeTags

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Re: Wooting One/Two Vs Simulate Analog Behavior firmware
« Reply #1 on: 02:51 PM - 01/10/21 »
bump

Offline Antec800

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Re: Wooting One/Two Vs Simulate Analog Behavior firmware
« Reply #2 on: 03:25 PM - 01/10/21 »
I donít have much to add but I hate the sab movement feeling on kb doesnít feel right to me, but I know in some games sab brows help with aim assist and potentially make it stronger

Offline TommyToeTags

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Re: Wooting One/Two Vs Simulate Analog Behavior firmware
« Reply #3 on: 09:13 PM - 01/10/21 »
I donít have much to add but I hate the sab movement feeling on kb doesnít feel right to me, but I know in some games sab brows help with aim assist and potentially make it stronger

I agree with that, I find only some games where it may seem useful such as Apex

Offline TommyToeTags

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Re: Wooting One/Two Vs Simulate Analog Behavior firmware
« Reply #4 on: 12:31 PM - 01/11/21 »
bumping this nowaday ghost town  :'(

Offline antithesis

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Re: Wooting One/Two Vs Simulate Analog Behavior firmware
« Reply #5 on: 05:05 PM - 01/11/21 »
Wooting KBs are very nice (I have a Wooting Two), but not for analog movement. The deadzone on the analog switches is too deep, so there's very little control over analog input.

SAB's purpose is to mask digital input rather than provide rotational aim assist. It's more customisable than a Wooting but behaves similarly. If you don't like SAB, don't get a Wooting.

I transitioned from a kb to an Azeron two years ago when they first started gaining traction. I've been a keyboarder since the early 80s and it took only 4 hours playing Fallout 76 to attune myself to analog movement. Fallout 76 has a wacky control scheme, which made it harder to adapt than say Call of Duty, Battlefield, Apex Legends etc with more traditional action bindings. Otherwise, it probably would have taken a couple of hours at most. The only game I don't like playing with Azeron is Fortnite due to building, which I find easier with a kb.

If you do consider going down this path, get the Azeron Compact, not the Classic. The towers on Classic look cool, but they're not ergonomic - it's slow to extend a finger to reach them and it's very easy to hit the wrong button. Compact is much more suited for shooters and there are more than enough buttons for XIM bindings.

Analog movement on Azeron is excellent, with fine control over sneaking & peaking. Rotational Aim Assist works just as it would with a controller and far surpasses what can be achieved with SAB or an analog kb. The only thing needed to make Azeron XIM-ready is to calibrate the analog stick in Azeron Software. There may be stick drift and wheel menus won't function correctly if the Azeron's stick isn't calibrated correctly.

Long story short - if you want analog movement, use a true analog device like an Azeron or Nav.

Official Australian distributor for XIM APEX, Titan One & Titan Two at Mod Squad
XIM APEX demos on Twitch and YouTube. Follow Twitter for live stream alerts

Offline TommyToeTags

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Re: Wooting One/Two Vs Simulate Analog Behavior firmware
« Reply #6 on: 08:05 PM - 01/11/21 »
Wooting KBs are very nice (I have a Wooting Two), but not for analog movement. The deadzone on the analog switches is too deep, so there's very little control over analog input.

SAB's purpose is to mask digital input rather than provide rotational aim assist. It's more customisable than a Wooting but behaves similarly. If you don't like SAB, don't get a Wooting.

I transitioned from a kb to an Azeron two years ago when they first started gaining traction. I've been a keyboarder since the early 80s and it took only 4 hours playing Fallout 76 to attune myself to analog movement. Fallout 76 has a wacky control scheme, which made it harder to adapt than say Call of Duty, Battlefield, Apex Legends etc with more traditional action bindings. Otherwise, it probably would have taken a couple of hours at most. The only game I don't like playing with Azeron is Fortnite due to building, which I find easier with a kb.

If you do consider going down this path, get the Azeron Compact, not the Classic. The towers on Classic look cool, but they're not ergonomic - it's slow to extend a finger to reach them and it's very easy to hit the wrong button. Compact is much more suited for shooters and there are more than enough buttons for XIM bindings.

Analog movement on Azeron is excellent, with fine control over sneaking & peaking. Rotational Aim Assist works just as it would with a controller and far surpasses what can be achieved with SAB or an analog kb. The only thing needed to make Azeron XIM-ready is to calibrate the analog stick in Azeron Software. There may be stick drift and wheel menus won't function correctly if the Azeron's stick isn't calibrated correctly.

Long story short - if you want analog movement, use a true analog device like an Azeron or Nav.

I guess in a weird comparison anecdotally you could give humans flippers, but it is truly no match for webbed feet and fins.

THANK YOU A! Realizing now that the answer was more simple than I originally imagined. You saved me from blowing $150 on what seems to be a minuscule advantage or possibly even a hindrance. Not to throw shade at wooting - they produce excellent ground breaking technology, it's just not what I want the capabilities for.

I will be looking into Azeron to play some specific titles. Your endless input is greatly appreciated. never stop shuttin' down the clowns. :)

Offline shthappensbro

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Re: Wooting One/Two Vs Simulate Analog Behavior firmware
« Reply #7 on: 11:02 PM - 01/11/21 »
Wooting KBs are very nice (I have a Wooting Two), but not for analog movement. The deadzone on the analog switches is too deep, so there's very little control over analog input.

SAB's purpose is to mask digital input rather than provide rotational aim assist. It's more customisable than a Wooting but behaves similarly. If you don't like SAB, don't get a Wooting.

I transitioned from a kb to an Azeron two years ago when they first started gaining traction. I've been a keyboarder since the early 80s and it took only 4 hours playing Fallout 76 to attune myself to analog movement. Fallout 76 has a wacky control scheme, which made it harder to adapt than say Call of Duty, Battlefield, Apex Legends etc with more traditional action bindings. Otherwise, it probably would have taken a couple of hours at most. The only game I don't like playing with Azeron is Fortnite due to building, which I find easier with a kb.

If you do consider going down this path, get the Azeron Compact, not the Classic. The towers on Classic look cool, but they're not ergonomic - it's slow to extend a finger to reach them and it's very easy to hit the wrong button. Compact is much more suited for shooters and there are more than enough buttons for XIM bindings.

Analog movement on Azeron is excellent, with fine control over sneaking & peaking. Rotational Aim Assist works just as it would with a controller and far surpasses what can be achieved with SAB or an analog kb. The only thing needed to make Azeron XIM-ready is to calibrate the analog stick in Azeron Software. There may be stick drift and wheel menus won't function correctly if the Azeron's stick isn't calibrated correctly.

Long story short - if you want analog movement, use a true analog device like an Azeron or Nav.


Man I have the wooting two I thought they was post to fix the deadzone issue??? That azeron looks nice but the shipping time on it... too long for me I would need something with in 3 days

Offline antithesis

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Re: Wooting One/Two Vs Simulate Analog Behavior firmware
« Reply #8 on: 11:17 PM - 01/11/21 »
Man I have the wooting two I thought they was post to fix the deadzone issue??? That azeron looks nice but the shipping time on it... too long for me I would need something with in 3 days
Wooting has worked on a new optical switch for the last couple of years. It'll be an improvement over the current switch, but you're still stuck with at best 3-4mm of single-plane travel (vertical key press). On current Wooting kbs, it's more like 1-2mm of control due to the deadzone, which is a physical limitation of the optical switch.

A thumbstick has around 10mm of travel in every direction (20mm diameter), which translates to more control over analog movement. This is similar to moving mouse aim from a 20mm thumbstick to a 300 x 240mm (or more) mousepad with a XIM - you get a significantly higher degree of control.

An analog stick is a much better use for our thumbs than bashing the Spacebar, while also freeing up the three middle fingers from WASD duties to something more productive. It takes a mental leap to go from a kb to an Azeron, but if you stick with the short learning curve, it's very hard to go back to a keeb.

Azeron shipping is pretty fast considering it's coming from Latvia. The lengthy wait was due to high demand and low production capacity of what is more or less a garage 3D-printing business, but Azeron significantly increased capacity over the last 12 months. All good things come to those who wait ;)

Official Australian distributor for XIM APEX, Titan One & Titan Two at Mod Squad
XIM APEX demos on Twitch and YouTube. Follow Twitter for live stream alerts

Offline shthappensbro

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Re: Wooting One/Two Vs Simulate Analog Behavior firmware
« Reply #9 on: 11:42 PM - 01/11/21 »
Man I have the wooting two I thought they was post to fix the deadzone issue??? That azeron looks nice but the shipping time on it... too long for me I would need something with in 3 days
Wooting has worked on a new optical switch for the last couple of years. It'll be an improvement over the current switch, but you're still stuck with at best 3-4mm of single-plane travel (vertical key press). On current Wooting kbs, it's more like 1-2mm of control due to the deadzone, which is a physical limitation of the optical switch.

A thumbstick has around 10mm of travel in every direction (20mm diameter), which translates to more control over analog movement. This is similar to moving mouse aim from a 20mm thumbstick to a 300 x 240mm (or more) mousepad with a XIM - you get a significantly higher degree of control.

An analog stick is a much better use for our thumbs than bashing the Spacebar, while also freeing up the three middle fingers from WASD duties to something more productive. It takes a mental leap to go from a kb to an Azeron, but if you stick with the short learning curve, it's very hard to go back to a keeb.

Azeron shipping is pretty fast considering it's coming from Latvia. The lengthy wait was due to high demand and low production capacity of what is more or less a garage 3D-printing business, but Azeron significantly increased capacity over the last 12 months. All good things come to those who wait ;)


Haha I wonder if they have a discord so I can ask them if I can get over nigh shipping or something fast??

Offline shthappensbro

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Re: Wooting One/Two Vs Simulate Analog Behavior firmware
« Reply #10 on: 01:15 AM - 01/12/21 »
You talked me into i hope I got my hand size right i just did the small one lmfao I dont have nothin  to find out what it is lol

Offline antithesis

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Re: Wooting One/Two Vs Simulate Analog Behavior firmware
« Reply #11 on: 07:41 AM - 01/12/21 »
I use a small one too.

I dislike my palm touching either my mouse or my Azeron, so I prefer a fingertip grip with my palm slid back on the wrist rest rather than elevated at the front. There's a lot of customisation so hopefully you'll find comfortable grip pretty quickly.

I highly recommend a piece of double-sided Velcro under the rear of the Azeron to tape it to the desk and prevent it sliding around.

Official Australian distributor for XIM APEX, Titan One & Titan Two at Mod Squad
XIM APEX demos on Twitch and YouTube. Follow Twitter for live stream alerts

Offline shthappensbro

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Re: Wooting One/Two Vs Simulate Analog Behavior firmware
« Reply #12 on: 02:58 AM - 01/14/21 »
I use a small one too.

I dislike my palm touching either my mouse or my Azeron, so I prefer a fingertip grip with my palm slid back on the wrist rest rather than elevated at the front. There's a lot of customisation so hopefully you'll find comfortable grip pretty quickly.

I highly recommend a piece of double-sided Velcro under the rear of the Azeron to tape it to the desk and prevent it sliding around.

Alright sweet I hope it's easy to hook up i heard u can change alot of the joystick movement i just want it to be like an Xbox analog movement so I get the must out of it

Offline antithesis

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Re: Wooting One/Two Vs Simulate Analog Behavior firmware
« Reply #13 on: 05:38 AM - 01/14/21 »
Keep it simple -

1. Connect the Azeron to PC, run Azeron Software and update to the latest firmware. Don't install the XIM FW, it's not needed and you lose the second profile. I had XIM FW on one of my Azerons due to corrupted profiles, but fixed it out recently.

2. Run "Calibrate Analog Stick" to prevent stick drift and malfunctioning wheel menus.

3. Connect Azeron to XIM, setup your Actions. The stick will automatically map to movement.

Official Australian distributor for XIM APEX, Titan One & Titan Two at Mod Squad
XIM APEX demos on Twitch and YouTube. Follow Twitter for live stream alerts

Offline shthappensbro

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Re: Wooting One/Two Vs Simulate Analog Behavior firmware
« Reply #14 on: 12:58 AM - 01/15/21 »
Keep it simple -

1. Connect the Azeron to PC, run Azeron Software and update to the latest firmware. Don't install the XIM FW, it's not needed and you lose the second profile. I had XIM FW on one of my Azerons due to corrupted profiles, but fixed it out recently.

2. Run "Calibrate Analog Stick" to prevent stick drift and malfunctioning wheel menus.

3. Connect Azeron to XIM, setup your Actions. The stick will automatically map to movement.


Hmm its probably gonna take a month for them to send it