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Ideal mouse DPI - hard question  (Read 1398 times)

Offline DraqonXXX

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Ideal mouse DPI - hard question
« on: 05:36 PM - 12/31/20 »
I have a question, but allow me to preface it first.

As I understand it, way back during XIM4 days, the devs' advice was to have as much mouse DPI as possible, and so long as the mouse is acceleration free, the lower the XIM sensitivity is, the more precise movements will be.

The ideal mouse used to be the G502, since this was used by the DEVs if my intel is correct, although I assume the DEVs would also be quick to note that any high quality mouse would produce just as good results, or close enough that the difference would be miniscule. Still, one has to remember the same was said about the 8 ms polling delay of the XIM4, as opposed to the theoretically possible 1 ms (at least on the xbox), and it has now become (fortunately, and rightly!) a major selling point of Apex. Being a perfectionist, I'm interested in what would give the most precise movement with the least delay, however impossible it may be to perceive that difference.

The G502 had 12K dpi, and experts recommended it for a long while for XIM4, and then the Apex, before Razer mice with 20k and more became the norm, but for reasons unknown to me, in recent years, once these mice could go over 12k, experts on these forums started to say that you don't need 20K dpi, which, to me, seems to go against the old standard of "the more dpi the better". Now mind you, this is all assuming we want to go nuts with dpi and overall speed, so I know some experts, like antithesis, like to run 4K, I'd like to exclude those scenarios from this discussion if such a request is possible.

So I guess my question is, given that one would want to go nuts with the most possible DPI and overall sensitivity (At least 12k dpi AND sens well above 50, up to hundreds of hip sens in my case), is it better to increase DPI beyond 12k on a mouse that can do 20 or 25K, or stick to 12K and increase apex sensitivity more? Which results in more precision?


Offline SwxftGodz

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Re: Ideal mouse DPI - hard question
« Reply #1 on: 03:26 PM - 01/02/21 »
Stop trying to be like everyone else and go with whatís comfortable to you. Yes it is the best to run low sens with your xim. You want to think of your xim as a fine tune, your dpi is your movement which should be maxed. It all revolves around movement and cursor speed. I run a 16k w a GPW , and my senses are as low as .76 and .36 for hip and ads!I personally wouldnít step over 16k because Iíve tried 25600 and itís garbage thereís nothing better about it! You have a mouse w onboard memory so how bout you run a high dpi like 12 or 16k and use these in games w strong AA and 4K as a base for all your games. You will then see the difference in tuning your xim. And also run default sync while running tests or off sync. Itíll give you a more accurate sensitivity when your building configs,and start with no curve and reset hip/ads to 15/15.
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Offline antithesis

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Re: Ideal mouse DPI - hard question
« Reply #2 on: 09:28 PM - 01/02/21 »
There are diminishing performance returns for a mouse sensor after 3200 DPI or thereabouts, which is why we tend to recommend 3-4K for console gaming.

The short answer is if you want stickier aim assist, stick to 3-4K DPI. If you want better hitbox cut-through, go with max DPI on your mouse, but you risk introducing jitter (neutralise with Sync or Smoothing).

There is no right or wrong, just tailor it to how you prefer to play. 25K sensors are more than likely not native at that resolution (e.g software updates have doubled DPI for some Logitech G mice models), but rather interpolated by software, so try both 12K and 25K to see which works best for you.

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Offline DraqonXXX

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Re: Ideal mouse DPI - hard question
« Reply #3 on: 08:44 AM - 01/03/21 »
Swiftgodz: I don't think I'm being like everyone else, in fact, I'm the most radical outlier with my 240 hip sens in conjunction with 12k-25k dpi. I'm simply wondering if I should use 300-500 hip and, say, 8k DPI, or 25k dpi and maybe a 180-200 hip for better control.

antithesis: You raise a very good point, it's all about the mouse, isn't it? I have a logitech pro x lightspeed (25k), my other mice are razer viper ultimate (20k) and logi g502 (12k, you know this).

So... the problem is, I'm afraid, none of y'all know how the heck the pro x lightspeed works, caus it's too new, right? But, like, can you give me something to work with here? I mean it's logitech, they are supposed to have real, non doubled dpi, right? What about the viper ultimate, is their 20k legit?

So I guess the answer could be: if the mouse dpi is legit and not doubled, max dpi can make sense, given the fact that I'm trying to run off the charts speeds in both dpi and sens. I used a smoothing of 2 on G502, 1 on viper, and now I turned it off on the Pro X next to max dpi of the respective mice, and a 240 hip speed with 100 ads (I've heard a 2,4:1 ratio ensures you don't need aim transition delay).

Offline antithesis

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Re: Ideal mouse DPI - hard question
« Reply #4 on: 05:32 PM - 01/03/21 »
The Viper Ult and Pro X are reported to be very smooth at max DPI, even with Sync set to Off. Someone else will answer whether or not they are native at 20 & 25K DPI.

I doubt you'll notice any difference between e.g 12.5K @ 400 Sens vs 25K @ 200 Sens due to diminishing returns, but only you can tell based on your specific gear, so try both.

As long as you're not getting jitter at uber-DPI values, you might as well use the max to give yourself a greater sensitivity range to play with in XIM APEX Manager.

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Offline ZOMBIES!

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Re: Ideal mouse DPI - hard question
« Reply #5 on: 06:26 PM - 01/03/21 »
High DPI low polling is the way for me. I read a lot about high polling automatically being better for cutting through aim assist bubbles, but I'm having the least amount of problems I've ever had with the aim assist using 12K DPI, 250hz polling and common sync. No smoothing, no boost, no steady aim, just RML AAA curve #6. As a fairly low sensitivity player, I've experienced way more AA bubble problems running 12K with 1000hz and sync off.

Offline SwxftGodz

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Re: Ideal mouse DPI - hard question
« Reply #6 on: 09:54 AM - 01/05/21 »
Swiftgodz: I don't think I'm being like everyone else, in fact, I'm the most radical outlier with my 240 hip sens in conjunction with 12k-25k dpi. I'm simply wondering if I should use 300-500 hip and, say, 8k DPI, or 25k dpi and maybe a 180-200 hip for better control.

antithesis: You raise a very good point, it's all about the mouse, isn't it? I have a logitech pro x lightspeed (25k), my other mice are razer viper ultimate (20k) and logi g502 (12k, you know this).

So... the problem is, I'm afraid, none of y'all know how the heck the pro x lightspeed works, caus it's too new, right? But, like, can you give me something to work with here? I mean it's logitech, they are supposed to have real, non doubled dpi, right? What about the viper ultimate, is their 20k legit?

So I guess the answer could be: if the mouse dpi is legit and not doubled, max dpi can make sense, given the fact that I'm trying to run off the charts speeds in both dpi and sens. I used a smoothing of 2 on G502, 1 on viper, and now I turned it off on the Pro X next to max dpi of the respective mice, and a 240 hip speed with 100 ads (I've heard a 2,4:1 ratio ensures you don't need aim transition delay).


Use the g pro if you donít need necessary smoothing like you stated lol , it will feel a bit jittery but that wonít be anything that you need you need smoothing g value for,just try ur best at keeping your hand still whilst tracking and moving around.youíll be flicking on kids anyway lol. Try a default sync and just run low sens. It works as fine as off sync which I take your running because of your high hip and ads values!! Sorry I misunderstood your first question lol
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Offline Kocho

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Re: Ideal mouse DPI - hard question
« Reply #7 on: 03:15 PM - 01/05/21 »
Youíll get all kinds of different answer and different finds. I personally use 800 or 1200 depending on game and feel. Black ops Cold War I use 1200 because 800 feels weird on it. And on MW or Warzone I use 800 because of how it feels with the aim assist. 500hz for both mouse and input vanilla settings. I use a g502 (latest model). Sens is entirely up to you.

Offline DraqonXXX

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Re: Ideal mouse DPI - hard question
« Reply #8 on: 05:33 PM - 01/08/21 »
I ended up running 25,6K dpi and stayed with my old sens of 240/100, no smoothing, not experiencing any jitter. On viper ultimate I needed a smoothing of 1, next to just 12K dpi.

Can someone explain why the viper ultimate is so much faster/more sensitive at the same or even lower dpi levels than the g pro x? Wouldn't it mean one of them is multiplying it's dpi?

Offline SwxftGodz

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Re: Ideal mouse DPI - hard question
« Reply #9 on: 03:21 AM - 01/20/21 »
I ended up running 25,6K dpi and stayed with my old sens of 240/100, no smoothing, not experiencing any jitter. On viper ultimate I needed a smoothing of 1, next to just 12K dpi.

Can someone explain why the viper ultimate is so much faster/more sensitive at the same or even lower dpi levels than the g pro x? Wouldn't it mean one of them is multiplying it's dpi?
Different sensors different results. One has a Hero sensor which works good on all dpi staged, vs Razer they use a upgrade PMW sensor if Iím not mistaken which is 💩, stick with Logitech they perform and are more responsive on xim
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Offline DraqonXXX

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Re: Ideal mouse DPI - hard question
« Reply #10 on: 04:03 PM - 01/20/21 »
I ended up running 25,6K dpi and stayed with my old sens of 240/100, no smoothing, not experiencing any jitter. On viper ultimate I needed a smoothing of 1, next to just 12K dpi.

Can someone explain why the viper ultimate is so much faster/more sensitive at the same or even lower dpi levels than the g pro x? Wouldn't it mean one of them is multiplying it's dpi?
Different sensors different results. One has a Hero sensor which works good on all dpi staged, vs Razer they use a upgrade PMW sensor if Iím not mistaken which is 💩, stick with Logitech they perform and are more responsive on xim

I did end up staying with the logitech, but to say Viper Ultimate is shizzle is a bit harsh IMHO, rocketjumpninja says it's 2nd best after the g pro x. Viper Ultimate did seem to one up the G502. And razer just might retake the crown of having the best mouse when the Avalon comes out with its 8K polling rate. Granted, I think the way that works, it probably won't matter much if the value is above 1k(when used on console with xim apex), but I don't think the 1k mice, even those from logitech can output a true, consistent exact 1000hz. At least on these mouse testing sites it seems to vary greatly. I mainly care about the sensor's input lag and accuracy, not weight/convenience, features or value.

Offline GamingNerd

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Re: Ideal mouse DPI - hard question
« Reply #11 on: 01:38 PM - 01/21/21 »
The feel of AA is different to me per game. I usually customize my configs based on the game that I'm playing. After ximming for so long, all dpi's seem to have their pros and cons for me. As someone said, it's really all just preference. What do you like? How does it feel to you? Is it accurate enough for you? When it comes to settings it's your own opinion that matters. I love deceleration curves. I have a bunch of them that make me feel more precise. They may very well be a placebo, but they work for me so therefore they are correct.
The Xim is not a magical tool that is going to make you a god. Time, effort and perseverance is what will take your gaming to the next level.

[Ps4] [Sony Nav] [T9 Gamepad] [Logitech G502 Proteus] [Dpi's: 12,000, 3200, 4000, 2400] [Syncs: Off and Common]

Offline DraqonXXX

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Re: Ideal mouse DPI - hard question
« Reply #12 on: 07:39 AM - 01/22/21 »
The feel of AA is different to me per game. I usually customize my configs based on the game that I'm playing. After ximming for so long, all dpi's seem to have their pros and cons for me. As someone said, it's really all just preference. What do you like? How does it feel to you? Is it accurate enough for you? When it comes to settings it's your own opinion that matters. I love deceleration curves. I have a bunch of them that make me feel more precise. They may very well be a placebo, but they work for me so therefore they are correct.

You might want to look into those Asus Rog mice, they are around the very top of the mouse click latency chart (google it), and if I remember correctly, they have naturally built in deceleration in the sensor, otherwise a good sensor, but that's a negative to most.

Anyway, the reason I think you would want deceleration, is the same reason people prefer low sense or dpi: they play with their entire forearm! Why work out! This ain't no gym! Same with fighting games, I don't get why those pros love their sticks and work their whole arm. It's soooo much more convenient to just move my palm a fraction of an inch, an almost unnoticeable movement, and do a near 180 turn.

But I know, I know... "preference".

Offline SwxftGodz

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Re: Ideal mouse DPI - hard question
« Reply #13 on: 09:55 AM - 01/22/21 »
I ended up running 25,6K dpi and stayed with my old sens of 240/100, no smoothing, not experiencing any jitter. On viper ultimate I needed a smoothing of 1, next to just 12K dpi.

Can someone explain why the viper ultimate is so much faster/more sensitive at the same or even lower dpi levels than the g pro x? Wouldn't it mean one of them is multiplying it's dpi?
Different sensors different results. One has a Hero sensor which works good on all dpi staged, vs Razer they use a upgrade PMW sensor if Iím not mistaken which is 💩, stick with Logitech they perform and are more responsive on xim

I did end up staying with the logitech, but to say Viper Ultimate is shizzle is a bit harsh IMHO, rocketjumpninja says it's 2nd best after the g pro x. Viper Ultimate did seem to one up the G502. And razer just might retake the crown of having the best mouse when the Avalon comes out with its 8K polling rate. Granted, I think the way that works, it probably won't matter much if the value is above 1k(when used on console with xim apex), but I don't think the 1k mice, even those from logitech can output a true, consistent exact 1000hz. At least on these mouse testing sites it seems to vary greatly. I mainly care about the sensor's input lag and accuracy, not weight/convenience, features or value.

Donít forget about steel series. The rival 310-600 body Iíve used a r600 and man talk about 1:1 tracking itís that double sensor on it tho that helped with LOD(lift off)
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Offline DraqonXXX

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Re: Ideal mouse DPI - hard question
« Reply #14 on: 02:20 PM - 01/22/21 »
I ended up running 25,6K dpi and stayed with my old sens of 240/100, no smoothing, not experiencing any jitter. On viper ultimate I needed a smoothing of 1, next to just 12K dpi.

Can someone explain why the viper ultimate is so much faster/more sensitive at the same or even lower dpi levels than the g pro x? Wouldn't it mean one of them is multiplying it's dpi?
Different sensors different results. One has a Hero sensor which works good on all dpi staged, vs Razer they use a upgrade PMW sensor if Iím not mistaken which is 💩, stick with Logitech they perform and are more responsive on xim

I did end up staying with the logitech, but to say Viper Ultimate is shizzle is a bit harsh IMHO, rocketjumpninja says it's 2nd best after the g pro x. Viper Ultimate did seem to one up the G502. And razer just might retake the crown of having the best mouse when the Avalon comes out with its 8K polling rate. Granted, I think the way that works, it probably won't matter much if the value is above 1k(when used on console with xim apex), but I don't think the 1k mice, even those from logitech can output a true, consistent exact 1000hz. At least on these mouse testing sites it seems to vary greatly. I mainly care about the sensor's input lag and accuracy, not weight/convenience, features or value.

Donít forget about steel series. The rival 310-600 body Iíve used a r600 and man talk about 1:1 tracking itís that double sensor on it tho that helped with LOD(lift off)

All right, this is a lot for me to decypher here. I know the steel series ikari I believe is used as the reference point for the mouse click latency chart (again, google it!), so it's latency is good, although bested by some mice. But I've no idea why you would swap the "body" of the mouse. Like I said, I give 0 fux about comfort, the mouse can be a hedgehog or morning star with iron spikes impaling my palm, it can weigh as much as a feather or it can be a mfking anvil... so long as the sensor is the best there is. And I was under the impression that razer and logitech are the ones with the "perfect" sensors. On what forums, youtube channels, or comparative review sites do people mention ikari beating the logi g pro x or, say, the deathadder v2? I never struggled with LOD, since I don't ever need to lift it off, it's almost entirely stationary, I move it less than an inch and doing 180 turns.


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