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Ps5 & xim apex compatibility  (Read 116083 times)

Offline HocusPenus

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Re: Ps5 & xim apex compatibility
« Reply #180 on: 02:49 PM - 11/23/20 »
Hmmm interesting. When the ps4 was released, did the dualshock 4 also have some sort of encrypted authentication that was problematic for the adapter?

Offline gaminglad

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Re: Ps5 & xim apex compatibility
« Reply #181 on: 03:15 PM - 11/23/20 »
Some more info on DS5 authenticaiton protocol etc - https://github.com/matlo/GIMX/issues/672

I am no expert but the authentication seems like the roadblock that we are facing. Hopefully OBsIV and J2 can figure it out. I imagine they have some kind of USB sniffer that can be used to demystify the protocol.

Hmmm interesting. When the ps4 was released, did the dualshock 4 also have some sort of encrypted authentication that was problematic for the adapter?
I haven't been following XIM since then but I have read that it took over a month to get it working. Not sure if my info is true.
« Last Edit: 03:20 PM - 11/23/20 by gaminglad »

Online antithesis

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Re: Ps5 & xim apex compatibility
« Reply #182 on: 04:47 PM - 11/23/20 »
PS5 Remote Play is not PS4 Remote Play. In PS4 Remote Play there is a input lag.

So, the "Remote Play trick" is bound to DS4 V2. Not to the PS5 controller. But the "no input lag Stadia feature" is according to the article only a feature of new PS5 controller.
There will always be input lag, or more correctly in the case of PS Remote Play, network lag + input lag.

Remote Play is essentially a video feed from the console to the Remote Play app. How it performs depends on Remote Play settings, video bandwidth, video encoding / decoding, local network traffic, wireless interference etc. Ethernet is the fastest and most reliable network infrastructure, but there will still be lag in the video feed, probably in the vicinity of 100+ms.

The remote server "Stadia feature" of DualSense isn't as miraculous as it appears. All it does is remove one link in the chain by bypassing the computer (or console in PS5 Remote Play on PS4) to ping your local router directly from the controller. This will likely save only a few ms or so in each direction, which is almost no saving at all. All of the bigger lag inducers are still upstream on the local or wide area network.

Try the PS Remote Play app - it'll probably feel ok for single-player, but you should notice some lag for online multiplayer. It'll be better than not playing PS5 games at all, but installing the PS4 game version on PS5 will be less laggy than Remote Play. DualSense controllers don't (yet) work with XIM APEX, but I doubt Remote Play is significantly less laggy given the roundtrip saving is at the first and fastest link in the chain.

Let us know how you get on with the Remote Play test :)
« Last Edit: 04:56 PM - 11/23/20 by antithesis »

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Offline Sorothos

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Re: Ps5 & xim apex compatibility
« Reply #183 on: 05:12 AM - 11/24/20 »
There will always be input lag, or more correctly in the case of PS Remote Play, network lag + input lag.

Remote Play is essentially a video feed from the console to the Remote Play app. How it performs depends on Remote Play settings, video bandwidth, video encoding / decoding, local network traffic, wireless interference etc. Ethernet is the fastest and most reliable network infrastructure, but there will still be lag in the video feed, probably in the vicinity of 100+ms.

The remote server "Stadia feature" of DualSense isn't as miraculous as it appears. All it does is remove one link in the chain by bypassing the computer (or console in PS5 Remote Play on PS4) to ping your local router directly from the controller. This will likely save only a few ms or so in each direction, which is almost no saving at all. All of the bigger lag inducers are still upstream on the local or wide area network.

Try the PS Remote Play app - it'll probably feel ok for single-player, but you should notice some lag for online multiplayer. It'll be better than not playing PS5 games at all, but installing the PS4 game version on PS5 will be less laggy than Remote Play. DualSense controllers don't (yet) work with XIM APEX, but I doubt Remote Play is significantly less laggy given the roundtrip saving is at the first and fastest link in the chain.

Let us know how you get on with the Remote Play test :)

I have tested it, but directly saw that Share Play only offers a maximum resolution of 1080p.

This is much worse than if I just keep playing the PS4 version with 2160p (4k).

My internet would even manage a live broadcast in 2160p, but this is not offered with Share Play.

So this is not an option for me.

Offline sheryip

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Re: Ps5 & xim apex compatibility
« Reply #184 on: 12:06 PM - 11/24/20 »
There will always be input lag, or more correctly in the case of PS Remote Play, network lag + input lag.

Remote Play is essentially a video feed from the console to the Remote Play app. How it performs depends on Remote Play settings, video bandwidth, video encoding / decoding, local network traffic, wireless interference etc. Ethernet is the fastest and most reliable network infrastructure, but there will still be lag in the video feed, probably in the vicinity of 100+ms.

The remote server "Stadia feature" of DualSense isn't as miraculous as it appears. All it does is remove one link in the chain by bypassing the computer (or console in PS5 Remote Play on PS4) to ping your local router directly from the controller. This will likely save only a few ms or so in each direction, which is almost no saving at all. All of the bigger lag inducers are still upstream on the local or wide area network.

Try the PS Remote Play app - it'll probably feel ok for single-player, but you should notice some lag for online multiplayer. It'll be better than not playing PS5 games at all, but installing the PS4 game version on PS5 will be less laggy than Remote Play. DualSense controllers don't (yet) work with XIM APEX, but I doubt Remote Play is significantly less laggy given the roundtrip saving is at the first and fastest link in the chain.

Let us know how you get on with the Remote Play test :)

I have tested it, but directly saw that Share Play only offers a maximum resolution of 1080p.

This is much worse than if I just keep playing the PS4 version with 2160p (4k).

My internet would even manage a live broadcast in 2160p, but this is not offered with Share Play.

So this is not an option for me.
The best thing to do is have the ps5 and pc on the same table.  You would use the pc for remote play and xim. Connect to it using the remote play on PC with Xim connected. Once you got that done, switch your video source back to PS5. You won't get any video lag or compression that way but will have a little bit of input lag. it wasn't too noticeable

Offline Morgs91

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Re: Ps5 & xim apex compatibility
« Reply #185 on: 04:25 PM - 11/24/20 »
I remain optimistic however all of the announcements for next gen upgrades today all mention how they include dual sense features... im guessing when games get upgraded you wont be able to use DS4 on PS4 games anymore :( I'm looking at you D2

Offline sheryip

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Re: Ps5 & xim apex compatibility
« Reply #186 on: 09:25 PM - 11/24/20 »
I remain optimistic however all of the announcements for next gen upgrades today all mention how they include dual sense features... im guessing when games get upgraded you wont be able to use DS4 on PS4 games anymore :( I'm looking at you D2
You will just have to use the ps4 version. 

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Re: Ps5 & xim apex compatibility
« Reply #187 on: 05:39 AM - 11/26/20 »
PS5 games are playable over PS Remote Play using a DS4 with a XIM APEX on PC and Mac. PS4 also has a PS5 Remote Play app, but I don't think anyone has tested it yet.

No-one knows how long DualSense controller support will take, nor if it'll work at all with a XIM.

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Offline etrigan

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Re: Ps5 & xim apex compatibility
« Reply #188 on: 08:29 AM - 11/26/20 »
Assuming Sony doesn't force developers:

I have to wonder if online shooters will support DS4 for a while, with lots of people invested in Scuf's etc.

I would expect the fighter games will continue to support DS4 for a long time due to fight sticks.
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Offline Sorothos

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Re: Ps5 & xim apex compatibility
« Reply #189 on: 08:35 AM - 11/26/20 »
There will always be input lag, or more correctly in the case of PS Remote Play, network lag + input lag.

Remote Play is essentially a video feed from the console to the Remote Play app. How it performs depends on Remote Play settings, video bandwidth, video encoding / decoding, local network traffic, wireless interference etc. Ethernet is the fastest and most reliable network infrastructure, but there will still be lag in the video feed, probably in the vicinity of 100+ms.

The remote server "Stadia feature" of DualSense isn't as miraculous as it appears. All it does is remove one link in the chain by bypassing the computer (or console in PS5 Remote Play on PS4) to ping your local router directly from the controller. This will likely save only a few ms or so in each direction, which is almost no saving at all. All of the bigger lag inducers are still upstream on the local or wide area network.

Try the PS Remote Play app - it'll probably feel ok for single-player, but you should notice some lag for online multiplayer. It'll be better than not playing PS5 games at all, but installing the PS4 game version on PS5 will be less laggy than Remote Play. DualSense controllers don't (yet) work with XIM APEX, but I doubt Remote Play is significantly less laggy given the roundtrip saving is at the first and fastest link in the chain.

Let us know how you get on with the Remote Play test :)

My answer is in it's own thread (if someone wondering):
https://community.xim.tech/index.php?topic=90543.msg827605#msg827605



Offline Chr0nicle

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Re: Ps5 & xim apex compatibility
« Reply #190 on: 01:47 AM - 11/27/20 »
PS5 games are playable over PS Remote Play using a DS4 with a XIM APEX on PC and Mac. PS4 also has a PS5 Remote Play app, but I don't think anyone has tested it yet.

No-one knows how long DualSense controller support will take, nor if it'll work at all with a XIM.
Im playing on ps5 via ps4 with xim, works great, no any lag

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Re: Ps5 & xim apex compatibility
« Reply #191 on: 02:11 AM - 11/27/20 »
Im playing on ps5 via ps4 with xim, works great, no any lag
Thanks for testing the PS5 Remote Play app on PS4 Chr0nicle. Glad to hear the lag isn't noticeable  :)

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Offline nsignific

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Re: Ps5 & xim apex compatibility
« Reply #192 on: 02:50 AM - 11/27/20 »
This is not ideal, I hope this doesn't become the officially supported way to use XIM on PS5.
Even if I have to buy a new device, I'd rather do that.

Offline HoltKezed

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Re: Ps5 & xim apex compatibility
« Reply #193 on: 03:19 PM - 11/29/20 »
Sooo,

Did I get this right?

This infamous input lag is because the remote play actually streams the game over the internet and back... and it doesn't support streaming directly from the PS5 to the PC or PS4 through my very own gigabit infrastructure home network, is that correct?

Because that would be sad, what if someone is using the living room 2K TV and I just want to play with remote play on my PC at 1080p?

I still have to burn internet bandwidth while everything could be transmitted faster through the house router?

Wow.

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Re: Ps5 & xim apex compatibility
« Reply #194 on: 03:36 PM - 11/29/20 »
Did I get this right?

This infamous input lag is because the remote play actually streams the game over the internet and back... and it doesn't support streaming directly from the PS5 to the PC or PS4 through my very own gigabit infrastructure home network, is that correct?
No, you've got it wrong.

PS Remote Play can be configured via local area network (between PS5 and PC at home), or via wide area network (over the internet from e.g home to work).

Network & input lag will be significantly lower on a LAN than a WAN, but there will still be some lag because you're essentially playing a streaming video with Remote Play. You may not notice it for single-player, but it should be somewhat noticeable for multiplayer games.

This is not ideal, I hope this doesn't become the officially supported way to use XIM on PS5.
Even if I have to buy a new device, I'd rather do that.
XIM will likely not claim PS5 support at all if the DualSense can't be reverse-engineered. XIM APEX & 4 work for PS4 games direct and PS Remote Play for PS5 games, but they'll likely be unsupported, similar to PC.

There is no new XIM mouse & keyboard under development. The issue isn't the XIM, it's the DualSense's communication with the PS5 that is the problem. A new XIM m/kb adapter won't make any difference.

The device you may need to buy for official XIM support would be an Xbox Series X/S console. Early days yet and some progress is being made (e.g. DualSense passthrough on Titan Two), but don't hold your breath for PS5 support as it may not happen for months, if at all, depending on the DualSense.
« Last Edit: 03:45 PM - 11/29/20 by antithesis »

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