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XIM3 Impressions / Reviews ...  (Read 104363 times)

Offline OBsIV

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Re: First Impressions...
« Reply #15 on: 11:00 PM - 02/09/11 »
Your hand is fatigued from lifting so much on Black Ops? I could easily spin several times without lifting once. As for Reach, I can do a full turn without lifting the mouse (and I don't consider my self a very high sensitivity player).
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Offline amrak

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Re: First Impressions...
« Reply #16 on: 11:08 PM - 02/09/11 »
Your hand is fatigued from lifting so much on Black Ops? I could easily spin several times without lifting once. As for Reach, I can do a full turn without lifting the mouse (and I don't consider my self a very high sensitivity player).

I hope my comments weren't perceived as complaints. Black Ops is fine for turning/spinning, it's the secondary sensitivity that I was struggling with. My fatigue comment was for Reach. I have the Beta firmware, in-game at 10 sensitivity, mouse DPI maxed at 1800, and the XIM3 sensitivity is at 14-17. I don't think it is a problem with my setup, but the turn speed is so low in Reach that it really takes some work to spin around.

Offline OBsIV

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Re: First Impressions...
« Reply #17 on: 11:12 PM - 02/09/11 »
I hope my comments weren't perceived as complaints. Black Ops is fine for turning/spinning, it's the secondary sensitivity that I was struggling with. My fatigue comment was for Reach. I have the Beta firmware, in-game at 10 sensitivity, mouse DPI maxed at 1800, and the XIM3 sensitivity is at 14-17. I don't think it is a problem with my setup, but the turn speed is so low in Reach that it really takes some work to spin around.

No, I just want to help. I'm running 5700 DPI and play at 9 sensitivity. The equivalent sensitivity at 1800 DPI would be almost 30. Again, I never lift my hand to turn around.
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Offline mpod

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Re: First Impressions...
« Reply #18 on: 11:17 PM - 02/09/11 »
I got mine today - thank you OBsIV for taking care of us "charged-but-not-ordered" people, and thank you USPS cheapo priority option.  It shipped out Monday night and got here to Northern California this morning.  Sorry everyone for being part of the 80% of orders doing USPS and bogging down the process.  Also FYI the XIM store's tracking info lagged behind what I got plugging the tracking number into usps.com (or more easily just pasting it into google and clicking the tracking link from there).  Though the USPS info itself was usually a stage behind (e.g. it was already delivered before it was even saying "out for delivery".)

OK, so here are my initial impressions.
  • Light (in weight). It sure is light!  Probably a good thing, but very surprising.
  • Rubber feet.  I like the rubber feet on it... very grippy and good on the coffee table.
  • Cord length.   I was disappointed by the cord length.  I appreciate that it's just standard USB, I know all about monoprice and already have USB extension cables lying around, so it's not that this is any issue for me.  But in my opinion the included cable (seems to be a 2 meter one) is too short.  My Hori wired turbo controllers have an over 9 foot cable and that seems just about right to me (although I could probably even go for 10' at times).  And I realize you can have your XIM not reach as far as your controller, because you'll have additional cables plugged into it to further reach to you, but in my opinion you should be able to have it reach to wherever a controller reached so it doesn't need to be in front of you.  For $150 a few extra feet at a raw supply cost of additional  pennies doesn't seem unreasonable to me. 
  • Screen Protector Film. I'm assuming there's a protective film covering the screen.  I say assuming because at first glance I thought there was just some unevenness in the edge front face (at edges of the entire front, not just the rectangular screen) - like a smart phone screen protector film not perfectly applied.  Then I realized it could peel up so it was almost certainly a removable film - but I figure I might as well leave it, the screen is plenty visible with it on.  In any case I was surprised there was no extending bit of it to grab to peel it off, but it's probably best this way because it does fit pretty well.
  • Powering On Confusion. As instructed I first plugged in my controller and KB/M to the XIM before plugging it into the Xbox (which was off).  As soon as I plugged it into the Xbox the screen came on, yay!  Except it didn't respond to any wired controller commands, not even the Xbox button (so I could power on the system), and soon after the screen went off.  So brief bit of panic that it might not be compatible with my Hori controller, but as soon as I turned on my Xbox with a second one all was well and it worked fine.  Maybe some clarification that you need to turn your Xbox on after you plug it into it (or already have it on) would be helpful.
  • Configuration. Pretty straightforward.  One suggestion would be to show "Keyboard" and "Mouse" instead of "K" and "M"  - for example, when configuration the buttons, in a vertical stack of 3 is (top) the button (e.g. A, LT), (middle) name of mapped key or mouse button, and (bottom) "M" or "K".  There's plenty of horizontal width to fit "Mouse" or "Keyboard" expanded so I'd suggest doing that - obviously from this point on I will forever know what the K and M are doing there, but it will only help the initial usability.  On that note I hadn't realized none of the mouse/keyboard bindings would be usable until I exited the config mode - not just new/changed ones, but *any*  already existing button/key presses.  Simply going into config mode disables all the button/key input.  It might not be a bad idea to have a message on the config pages indicating that. 
  • Scattered Documentation. I totally realize this will can change with time, and 99.9% of people prefer that OBsIV spend his time currently getting the product out, not delaying it until it's well-documented.  So again, this isn't a problem, this is just my opinion / preference for the future.  And that's that there should be a FAQ that lives outside of the forums (about using the product), as well as a Support/Downloads page, and clear instructions also outside for updating your XIM.  The included Quick Start Guide is an excellent start to this; now it just needs a Full User Guide.  Which may well be based off of the instructional videos - but their contents should at least exist in a text FAQ or Table of Contents form.  Again, I understand that this is a nearly one-man operation and this can all come later.  :)   
  • Gameplay OK, so this is probably what people most care about, but I won't actually spend too much time here.  Partly because I'm battling with getting used to a new mouse (G700; sadly I think I'm realizing I'm more of a claw gripper).  I'm also just getting used to using the mouse in game - remembering what buttons I've mapped where, feeling comfortable with the cord, but most importantly realizing that I can't just do 360s or even 180s with a quick movement.  I know I should have been prepared for it, but I think it's hard to realize how limiting the underlying max turn speed limits are.  So that part feels very un-PC-gamelike. 
    That said it's quite amazing.  I only own Reach and the look mechanics are very very smooth.  To me the greatest part of all of this (at least on first impression) is not even the accuracy of the mouse - it's the ability to map things like Right Thumb-Click and X/Y/A/B and be able to use those without the potential of throwing off your aim (or stopping it completely).  I'm probably most looking forward to the boon of jump and zoom not being tied to my aim thumb.  But having mouse look is of course great as well... it was really clear just messing around on a Rocketfight Score Attack while I played with the settings - flying with the Jetpack and aiming is infinitely easier. 
  • Overall. Definitely pleased with my purchase (and feeling lucky to have gotten one already).  I wasn't a horrible Halo player with a standard controller by any means, but I also certainly wasn't awe-inspiring.  Plus I have a ridiculous Hero 24K-from-Legend rank owing primarily to turbo controller Firefight Matchmaking.  Which at times makes has made for amusing insults against me by disappointed teammates, but I'm hoping I can do a better job of living up to people's  pre-conceived notions - too many folks don't realize that in Reach high rank is only correlated to credit grinding (which is most efficiently done with Firefight, not multiplayer) and thus top ranks don't imply anything about skill.  ;D
I'll happily update this thread after I've played more, but I'm off to go back to mess with settings and finally test it in matchmaking.

Offline amrak

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Re: First Impressions...
« Reply #19 on: 11:30 PM - 02/09/11 »
No, I just want to help. I'm running 5700 DPI and play at 9 sensitivity. The equivalent sensitivity at 1800 DPI would be almost 30. Again, I never lift my hand to turn around.

Thanks. I opened a private match and have been messing with the sensitivities. I tried 24, and then 30 (at your suggestion) and both are a huge improvement, while still retaining fine movement. However, it still takes a full swipe of an 18" mousepad to perform a 360 degree spin. Even if I move my mouse really fast which makes the dot on the XIM3 turn black, and sustain it at that level, it still takes me 18". Just for grins, I set my XIM3 to 100 sensitivity. Now, if I spin my mouse at a decent speed, it only takes 5" to do a full spin. The controller dot turns black. If that black dot means the virtual controller stick is maxed out, why does 18" of black-dot on 14 sensitivity = 5" of black-dot on 100? The only difference between sensitivities should be the mouse velocity required to max the stick out, not a hard cap on turn speed.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Offline OBsIV

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Re: First Impressions...
« Reply #20 on: 11:34 PM - 02/09/11 »
18"?! Yes, something is up. I can turn around in less than 5" at 9 sensitivty with my G500 and G700. Look at my Turning instructional video -- you can see how far my hand moves to turn around.
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Offline Uber Pooch

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Re: First Impressions...
« Reply #21 on: 11:50 PM - 02/09/11 »
I understand where you're coming from amrak. I've been playing Halo Reach since last night and took today off from work but I still can't get comfortable with my G13 and G9X. The G13 feels a little clumsy especially when I'm strafing and every now and then I'll pause a little because the key wasn't pressed down all the way.

Like you, I haven't mastered the turns yet and find myself lifting the mouse way too often. Like OB I've got my primary sensitivity set to 9 and none for secondary but I still don't feel like I have that much control.

Part of my problem is getting used to the key bindings so that it seems more natural to move around, fire, reload, throw nades, etc. I'm nowhere near ready for any matchmaking games yet. For now I'm getting by with single player/score attack games and I'm probably at 50% of playing ability compared to using the Xbox controller. I keep reading all these posts about everyone's performance going way up so I'm wondering what the heck I'm doing wrong.
« Last Edit: 12:19 AM - 02/10/11 by Uber Pooch »

Offline amrak

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Re: First Impressions...
« Reply #22 on: 11:53 PM - 02/09/11 »
18"?! Yes, something is up. I can turn around in less than 5" at 9 sensitivty with my G500 and G700. Look at my Turning instructional video -- you can see how far my hand moves to turn around.

Well, I figured out half the problem. I had already turned off my xbox for the night when you replied, so I booted it up and forgot to max my MX518's DPI (which resets without power), so when I set the sensitivity to 30, it was only a minor boost. 90 felt better because of the low DPI. Now back at 1800 DPI, 30 sensitivity feels great. (Previously, @ 14 sensitivity it would take 20+ inches of mousepad to do a full circle in game, hence the sore hand). Now it takes about 8" for a full spin, or 4" to turn around. My only concern is that now small adjustments seem grainy on screen. Could I get the best of both by using acceleration?

Also, is there anything behind my previous inquiry about maxing the stick out? Why isn't it registered the same when using low/high sensitivity?

Offline OBsIV

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Re: First Impressions...
« Reply #23 on: 11:57 PM - 02/09/11 »
Honestly, you sound like a high-sensitivity player that is using a low-sensitivity mouse. Remember that your mouse movement is multiplied by the sensivity. The higher you make your sensitivity, the less granular your movement (which is what you are feeling).
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Offline amrak

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Re: First Impressions...
« Reply #24 on: 12:19 AM - 02/10/11 »
Honestly, you sound like a high-sensitivity player that is using a low-sensitivity mouse. Remember that your mouse movement is multiplied by the sensivity. The higher you make your sensitivity, the less granular your movement (which is what you are feeling).

I used to play PC on a pretty high sensitivity, but I bought a huge mousepad and have been consciously trying to play on lower sensitivities ever since. The part in bold, your sensitivity, was referring to my mouse? // The higher the XIM3's sensitivity, the more granular my aiming becomes.

Also, I just bought this mouse, and I don't think I would buy another so soon. I will just keep fiddling with the settings until I find something that works. The grainy (granular?) crosshair movement is a small price to pay for being able to turn around quickly.

PS. This will be my last post for tonight, I appreciate your continued involvement with the community and personally thank you for helping me with this issue. Sorry for filling up the First Impression thread.

Offline mpod

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Re: First Impressions...
« Reply #25 on: 12:47 AM - 02/10/11 »
18"?! Yes, something is up. I can turn around in less than 5" at 9 sensitivty with my G500 and G700. Look at my Turning instructional video -- you can see how far my hand moves to turn around.
I have the latest beta firmware, a G700 at 5700dpi, 10 in game sens, 9 on the XIM, and I'm finding the same thing about large movements needed for turning.   With 9 sensitivity and the default .55 acceleration I need more like 9" to do a full 180.  Maybe I just need to get used to exactly how fast to move it to nail the max turn rate?

Offline OBsIV

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Re: First Impressions...
« Reply #26 on: 12:49 AM - 02/10/11 »
If you are using 9 sensitivity with .55 acceleration with 5700dpi (verify in SetPoint) you are easily exceeding the maximum turn speed (you should be seeing it turn solid black). Turn Acceleration off (0) and please review the "Turning" instructional video.
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Offline mpod

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Re: First Impressions...
« Reply #27 on: 01:35 AM - 02/10/11 »
If you are using 9 sensitivity with .55 acceleration with 5700dpi (verify in SetPoint) you are easily exceeding the maximum turn speed (you should be seeing it turn solid black). Turn Acceleration off (0) and please review the "Turning" instructional video.
Yeah, I watched that, and actually had the acceleration at 0 to start.  And verified it's at 5700dpi.  It takes slightly more horizontal distance for me to do a 360 when it's at 0 though, so I tried it back at the default of .55 before making the post.

I suppose to clarify that distance is what the front of the mouse travels.  I can do a 180 keeping my wrist relatively in place but twisting the angle of my hand from the limits of it turned from one side to the limits of the opposite.  But it does seem to require a full twist just to do 180, and so if I need to keep going beyond that I'm either lifting the mouse or moving my whole forearm at that point.

Again, this is probably just be me getting used to it and Reach's slow max turn speed (I can peg my controller's analog stick and it doesn't move any faster).  Watching the video it looks like you're doing pretty much the same maximum range wrist turn and only getting 180 out of it. 

What exactly does acceleration do?  Based on the quick start guide of what to use it  for I'm assuming it gets you closer (or at) the max thumbstick position when you move it above a certain threshold speed?  Or is it more of a ramp up than an absolute threshold? 

Thanks as always for your incredible responsiveness here.  And the fine fine product of course. :)


Edit: Vehicles in Reach seem horrendous to deal with with a mouse... aiming at stuff in front isn't bad but their max turn rate seems so very low that it's a crapton of mouse pickups to say do a 180 gunning in the warthog.  Switching to a secondary 100 sensitivity value doesn't really seem to help much... it seems they were just made for holding the @#$% analog stick railed against far left or right. :(

2nd Edit: it would be really nice if the display indicating which sensitivity you were currently using (it could simply display the value).
« Last Edit: 01:42 AM - 02/10/11 by mpod »

Offline OBsIV

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Re: First Impressions...
« Reply #28 on: 01:52 AM - 02/10/11 »
We are looking at a special "joystick-mode" for the mouse for vehicles.
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Offline Zenigame96

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Re: First Impressions...
« Reply #29 on: 02:12 AM - 02/10/11 »
So, I'm tired and don't really have time to write up a full awesome bullet point review... But I can definitely do a quicky!

I got my XIM3 on my lunch break today and proceeded to install the Beta firmware and make sure all was working correctly. I didn't get a chance to play it until tonight about about 7 PM..... It is now 1 AM, and I only put it down for about an hour.

This thing is FANTASTIC! I owned a XIM2 myself and I've gotta say this does step it up a notch, even on games like COD. I also noticed that making custom configs for other types of games (I played a little Dead Space 2 with it) is MUCH more convenient... I don't really know why, but the way it was set up on the PC was always just really a nuisance to me before.

That being said, there is a DEFINITE difference between standard configs and smart configs. I can't wait for the Dead Space 2 smart.. (Please OBsIV? Pretty please!? ;))

I am VERY excited for the store to re-open so I can convince all my buddies to jump on the bandwagon, and of course so the community can explode with awesome configs and make this already perfect device even better. My hat is off to you OBsIV (and of course all your handy-men.) You have made one awesome product. It exceeded my expectations, and they were already pretty high.

Alright, time for bed. :P