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Elgato 60HD S can i run it?  (Read 302 times)

Offline ThaG0d

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Elgato 60HD S can i run it?
« on: 12:39 AM - 03/03/20 »
Wusup XIMers!

I am streaming through my PS4 broadcast but I was thinking of getting Elgato to get all overlays and other cool features.

However i don't know if my PC can handle it.

AMD Radeon R7 370 2gb GPU
4 core AMD Phenom II X4 870
8GB RAM DDR3

Thanks!
Secretlab TITAN 2020
PS4 Pro
AOC C27G1 27" Curved Gaming Monitor
XIM APEX
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Logitech G413 Carbon

Offline AgentSmith

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Re: Elgato 60HD S can i run it?
« Reply #1 on: 01:08 AM - 03/03/20 »
I wouldn't recommend it on those pc specs to be honest.
But..

If your gfx card can be used to to the encoding ( I am not sure if the R7 can be used for that )
then you may get away with it using 720p 60 fps max with very minimal overlays ( nothing animated ).

If you are using mixer as your stream platform check out GoLightstream, it allows you to do the overlays without the need for a powerfull streaming PC.
Fantasitc if you are streaming from a console.


Offline ThaG0d

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Re: Elgato 60HD S can i run it?
« Reply #2 on: 07:41 AM - 03/04/20 »
Thanks for the reply!

Too bad GoLightstream is only on Xbox and I'm on PS4.

Will have to get new PC build in future :)

Secretlab TITAN 2020
PS4 Pro
AOC C27G1 27" Curved Gaming Monitor
XIM APEX
Logitech G502 Hero
Logitech G413 Carbon

Offline antithesis

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Re: Elgato 60HD S can i run it?
« Reply #3 on: 03:44 PM - 03/04/20 »
Streaming PC requirements are significantly higher than the specs provided by hardware / software providers. To get a clean 900p+ stream requires a very beefy CPU, which in turn flows down to mobo, RAM, SSD etc. Don't bother with GPU-encoding, it's awful.

Elgato Game Capture is rudimentary and won't get you very far (a cam overlay is about it).

Streaming absolutely cannot be done on a moderate gaming rig at higher than 720p. Minimum spec is geared towards 360p streaming, which is pointless. We also have to deal with the bandwidth bottleneck at Twitch / Mixer / YouTube, which is very restrictive for non-partners.

I recommend using what you have (the on-board PS4 streaming tools) until you get enough of a following to warrant ANY investment in hardware upgrades.

Streaming has a steep and expensive learning curve to do it right and you never hear about how hard it is to setup,  configure and integrate all of the moving pieces (it's brutal).

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Offline AgentSmith

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Re: Elgato 60HD S can i run it?
« Reply #4 on: 09:37 AM - 03/05/20 »
The bottle neck of streaming bandwidth is more of a download issue for the viewer than upload limit for the streamer due to Twitch and Mixer not giving transcoders to none partners.

Youtube isn't a problem every stream gets a transcoder.

Without the transcoders the viewer can only watch the stream at the same rate as the streamer is streaming, so if the viewer doesn't have the bandwidth or hardware to watch at stream they can't watch a streamer who is using the limits of twitch.
This in turn means to maximize the possible viewers you need to reduce your stream quality so their crap internet or hardware can watch, at least until partner on mixer or affiliate on twitch then you get transcoders so you are able to increase your stream quality for the people who are able to watch it.

The PC power required depends on if you can use the gfx card for encoding, if you can use the gfx card then the cpu doesn't need to be much.
The PC linked below, if it was fitted with a Nvidia 1060 gfx card and using OBS studio would be more than enough for 1080p 60fps with higher bit rate than both mixer and twitch allow.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/HP-EliteDesk-Desktop-Certified-Refurbished/dp/B07843N5G6/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?keywords=i5+4600k+pc&qid=1583419769&s=computers&sr=1-1-fkmr0


Offline antithesis

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Re: Elgato 60HD S can i run it?
« Reply #5 on: 03:33 PM - 03/05/20 »
Unless you have an RTX GPU, NVenc encoding is the equivalent of using veryfast X264 CPU encoding, which is frankly awful. NVenc on an RTX is comparable to faster or fast, which still sucks. Anything below the medium preset is bad. CPU-encoding is a necessity for 900 or 1080p, GPU is barely passable at 720p.

The best you can hope for without partnership on Twitch is to abuse the hidden 8Mbit cap (set it to about 7800) on medium CPU encoding with X264 performance flags at 720p. Try running through a cornfield in Fortnite, which is otherwise a relatively low-spec game for graphics, and see what happens to your stream.

For "good" streaming quality at 900p+, we need close to top of the line CPUs (AMD Ryzen 9 series & Intel equivalents) to encode X264 at medium or slow. The GPU is largely irrelevant for streaming - it's a terrible idea to stream and game from the same PC, so a moderate GPU will do the job. Build a PC around a high-end CPU and the dollars quickly add up. If we could use X265, our streams would look significantly better, but the streaming providers aren't there yet.

The bandwidth bottleneck at Twitch remains a problem and big Partners get tonnes more bandwidth than the rest of us, so don't expect a Ninja-quality stream. 8Mbit is still not enough at 1080p and artefacts remain a problem for all but the biggest streamers (watch the head cams and see how they go to crap when the action heats up on-screen). Keep in mind that Twitch and Mixer recommends 3Mbit upload, which is going to get you 360 to 480p, at best. Transcoding kicks in at Affliate on Twitch, but that only helps mobile users if you're streaming at higher than 720p (native mobile resolution).

YouTube offers significantly more upload bandwidth than Twitch at 20Mbit, so it's the best option if quality is paramount. But Twitch and Mixer are better entry points unless you already have a YouTube following.

Long story short - unless you're forking out big bucks for a high-end streaming rig (requirements are higher than for PC gaming) and have 8Mbit to dedicate to upload bandwidth (still not enough for 1080p for non-partners), stick to 720p.

For reference, I setup a Ryzen 2700X, 32GB DDR4 RAM, GTX 1070 GPU and X470 mobo specifically for streaming. It far exceeds minimum streaming specs and I have a 120/40Mbit internet connection. The BEST I could do was 720p @ 60FPS and arguably that should have been 30FPS given there were still visual artefacts on the head cam.

I've upgraded to a Ryzen 3900X which is capable of 1080p on slow encoding. I consider it to be the bare minimum needed for 900p streaming, with the bottleneck remaining at Twitch.
« Last Edit: 03:50 PM - 03/05/20 by antithesis »

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Offline antithesis

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Re: Elgato 60HD S can i run it?
« Reply #6 on: 04:05 PM - 03/05/20 »
Editor timed out...

Od1n and I have been testing streaming stuff in the background for a few months and my 2700X vs his 3900X CPUs were the difference between 720p and 1080p. Everything else on our streaming rigs is roughly equivalent.

I stream with a head cam, he doesn't. He streams Warframe, which is very intensive on the encoder, I'm more pedestrian with games like Destiny 2. Both of us still had issues with artefacts at 8Mbit using medium encoder settings and highly-tweaked X264 performance flags.

Neither of us would bother with NVenc and I setup my streaming rig around a GTX 1070 card that I bought for OBS encoding. NVenc sucks, unless you have an RTX20xx series card, which is still not better than CPU encoding at medium or slow X264 settings (I wouldn't use lower than medium).

Based on our experiments, I upgraded to a 3900X CPU, which promptly stuck itself to the heatsink and ripped off 3 pins when I needed to remove it to upgrade the 470X mobo firmware for compatibility  :o Fortunately, a friend is an electronics technician and soldered some new pins onto the CPU, or that was $900 AUD down the drain.

But I digress - my objective is to have a clean stream at 900p and from all of our testing, that's the best I can hope for without Twitch partnership (I have Affiliate status). From Od1n's testing, 3900X can do 1080p at slow, which is great quality, but he's streaming to YouTube rather than Twitch, so he can push it to 1080.


Do not believe the recommended streaming specs, they are not based on realistic expectations at 720p, let alone 1080p. You need a high-end CPU, period, GPU-encoding will not cut it. And 8Mbit is still not enough bandwidth for 1080p, 900p is the best you can do on Twitch without either getting partnership, or accepting rubbish stream quality.
« Last Edit: 04:21 PM - 03/05/20 by antithesis »

Official Australian distributor for XIM APEX, Titan One & Titan Two at Mod Squad
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Offline AgentSmith

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Re: Elgato 60HD S can i run it?
« Reply #7 on: 02:08 AM - 03/06/20 »
It looks to me like you sell that stuff.

The difference between your suggestion and mine is the difference between..
Mine: Perfectly acceptable for the masses
Yours: Perfection which is viewable in full glory by very few and appreciated by less.

I mean really..  we play games on a console, we are all about compromise in quality for other benefits. :-)

Offline antithesis

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Re: Elgato 60HD S can i run it?
« Reply #8 on: 02:15 AM - 03/06/20 »
Youíre right - if youíre just after a console feed at 720p with no cams or overlays, you can get away with less. But itís a big step up if you want a good result :)

I donít sell that stuff...yet. If Iím gonna sell it, I need to showcase it and canít go half-arsed.

My point is unless you invest a significant chunk of change into a streaming setup, set expectations to ďmehĒ. Aim for 720p, not 1080p for a far better result on a lower budget.
« Last Edit: 02:23 AM - 03/06/20 by antithesis »

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Offline Wxstrn-

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Re: Elgato 60HD S can i run it?
« Reply #9 on: 12:36 PM - 03/26/20 »
I am so confused... I understand PC hardware specs (Although I haven't built one in over 10 years.)
I have a PS4 PRO with an Elgato HD60, Intel i3, 6gbs DDR ram, Intel GPU onboard, and 1TB HD, running windows 10. I haven't really done much with the elgato... But running the capture software and recording it's smooth, flawless.

 Is streaming going to be way more difficult in terms of being a resource hog? I have like over 20upload dedicated or more to the ps4 when I play so my internet isn't a problem. I just want to run 720p 60frames or 1080p 30frames. I don't mind. If I can't with this I'm selling the elgato probably.

Offline antithesis

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Re: Elgato 60HD S can i run it?
« Reply #10 on: 04:36 PM - 03/26/20 »
I am so confused... I understand PC hardware specs (Although I haven't built one in over 10 years.)
I have a PS4 PRO with an Elgato HD60, Intel i3, 6gbs DDR ram, Intel GPU onboard, and 1TB HD, running windows 10. I haven't really done much with the elgato... But running the capture software and recording it's smooth, flawless.

Is streaming going to be way more difficult in terms of being a resource hog? I have like over 20upload dedicated or more to the ps4 when I play so my internet isn't a problem. I just want to run 720p 60frames or 1080p 30frames. I don't mind. If I can't with this I'm selling the elgato probably.
If all you're doing is streaming console gameplay with a mic for audio and no headcam or animated overlays, you might be ok with 720p, which is perfectly acceptable. If you want to go 900 or 1080p, test how your system and network handles 7800K upload speed to Twitch and look for rendering and encoding errors in OBS. Elgato Game Capture is very basic and inflexible, make the jump to OBS.

An i3 CPU is going to struggle with X.264 encoding and your GPU won't be capable of NVenc (which sucks by the way). You may need to use something like "Fastest" encoding in OBS, which will look pretty poor. Honestly, you may get better results streaming direct from the console.

The biggest thing to keep in mind is the OBS preview may look slick and have 1-2ms rendering on all scenes, but as soon as you go live, OBS can cripple the CPU, GPU and network interface and ramp rendering up to 10-15ms (or well beyond if your system can't handle the OBS settings), which is when you'll need to dial down expectations.

I found a fault in my PC that badly affected my setup and resolving it has allowed me to use 1080p. I have 32GB of DDR4 RAM in my 3900X / 1070 / X470 PC and one of the 8GB sticks was faulty. It prevented Win10 from detecting 16GB of the 32GB of RAM and somehow caused a memory leak in OBS. It was so bad that I couldn't loop a 350Kb animated webcam frame :o Everything else was fine, I just had to set my webcam frame to static and use 900p @ 50FPS as the output res, with good results.

Removing the faulty stick has fixed 1080p @ 60FPS using Slow preset in OBS & 7800Kbps to Twitch. There are occasional frame drops during replays and transitions (a very small and optimised 100Kb webm stinger), but it's rarely more than a frame or two. I'm expecting fast gameplay (e.g Apex Legends) to still look pixelated during heavy action and Twitch will sometimes drop the network connection, so it's less than perfect but pretty good.

My background is 25 years of web production (all aspects of pre, prod and post for websites), so I've been doing this stuff my whole adult life. Configuring a streaming rig, building a pro-level OBS package and having it work (almost) seamlessly in OBS has been one of the hardest things I've ever done.

The amount of poor and misinformation out there about streaming is shocking. Granted, my standards are high, but so were my expectations that it wasn't hard to do. Getting a polished result is nothing short of nightmare fuel and I can see flaws in almost every pro streamer's setup with the exception of golden boy streamers like Ninja who obviously had help from Twitch & Mixer and don't need to deal with bandwidth limitations.

Do not believe the PC specifications, nor the recommended upload settings from Twitch, Mixer, YouTube, Facebook gaming etc. Expect to spend multiple thousands on a dedicated streaming rig with at least an i7 or Ryzen Series 7 CPU (CPU does the rendering), a mirrorless DSLR cam, a dynamic XLR mic and a good mixer at a minimum if you want anything beyond a mediocre result. My 3900X streaming rig is nudging high-end gaming PC territory, just to be able to encode X.264 properly. I originally went in expecting an older 12-core XEON rig that still far exceeded min Twitch specs would do the job and it failed miserably.

My advice is don't spend a cent until streaming (and uploading VODs to YouTube) generates enough revenue to justify the expense. It's gameplay most viewers want to see and if you're good enough, the viewers will come. The best starting point is to have crispy mic audio, so if you have the money, invest in a dynamic XLR mic like a Rode PodMic (NOT a USB condenser mic like Blue Yeti) and a GoXLR mini and build from there.

I'm a very average gamer (it happens with age) and never expect my stream to amount to anything - I spent the dough solely because Twitch is a marketing & support channel for my business, I enjoyed the challenge of beating OBS and like sharing the learning experience so others can avoid the same pitfalls. I won't make a dime from streaming other than sales referrals for product demos and I'll never have more than a handful of viewers, which is fine with me. But the stream will look polished & professional, which was my objective.

Long story short - dream big but start small. Aside from a capture card (I recommend an Elgato Cam Link that can be used later for a headcam), your mic is the first thing you should fix. Stream for fun, not for profit and use what you have!
« Last Edit: 04:55 PM - 03/26/20 by antithesis »

Official Australian distributor for XIM APEX, Titan One & Titan Two at Mod Squad
XIM APEX demos on Twitch and YouTube. Follow Twitter for live stream alerts

Offline Wxstrn-

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Re: Elgato 60HD S can i run it?
« Reply #11 on: 07:33 PM - 03/26/20 »
Whoa thank you for that reply.


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