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Wireless Controller and Wireless Mouse Combo in Standard Mode  (Read 187 times)

Offline Newgun

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Hello all. I've been very happy with my Xim4 and now have the Apex on order. I've searched around but couldn't find the answer.

Is it possible to run a Wireless Controller and a Wireless Mouse at the same time in Standard Mode (Not Crossover)? And have full functionality of the controller without having to bind any buttons?

If so, do I need another controller wired to the Apex for authentication? I'll be using using an Xbox One (bluetooth) controller with an Xbox, so I'm assuming I don't need the crossover mode. I'm just wondering whether or not the XB1 controller connected via bluetooth is able to authenticate the Apex, thus not needing a wired controller for authentication. Same goes for the PS4 with a wireless Dualshock 4 and wireless mouse.

I have a Sony Nav and Joy Cons which are both excellent solutions, but I'm experimenting with an unconventional setup which I hope to report back to the community. 

Thanks for the help, everyone!


Offline antithesis

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You can use Navs and Joycons wirelessly without issue. Wireless mice via USB dongles work fine, but Bluetooth mice don't work.

Controllers can be wireless, however only cross-platform controllers will work. Your authentication controller must be wired via USB to XIM APEX, but a second controller can be connected via Bluetooth.

e.g A wired XB1 controller on XB1 with a wireless DS4, or a wired DS4 on PS4 with a wireless XB1 BT controller will work.




Official Australian distributor for XIM APEX, Titan One & Titan Two at Mod Squad
XIM APEX demos on Twitch and YouTube. Follow Twitter for live stream alerts

Offline Newgun

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Thank you, @antithesis.

It looks like I won’t be able to use the XB1 controller wirelessly on XB1, and respectively on the PS4. Although I prefer the XB1 controller over the PS4 controller, having to be forced to use a crossover controller will make it hard for PS4 games utilizing touchpad controls.

I have a Titan Two with the expansion bluetooth kit on order, and I believe it will allow me to play the native controller wirelessly with a mouse. I was hoping the Xim Apex could do the same as I believe the Apex mouse translators are more precise and robust.

Offline antithesis

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I have a Titan Two with the expansion bluetooth kit on order, and I believe it will allow me to play the native controller wirelessly with a mouse. I was hoping the Xim Apex could do the same as I believe the Apex mouse translators are more precise and robust.
XIM APEX and Titan Two play friendly together. In your case, you could connect the wireless mouse to XIM APEX (for the ST) and a controller to Titan Two (for wireless connection) to do what you want.

Let's assume you want to play a game like The Last of Us from the couch, which uses the DS4 touchpad for some in-game actions, so an XB1 controller won't do the job. Connect an authentication DS4, mouse & kb to XIM APEX, XIM APEX to Titan Two in INPUT-A, and a second wireless DS4 to Titan Two in INPUT-B.

I use XIM APEX and Titan Two together myself - they make a fantastic and flexible pairing to mix and match input devices, depending on the game's needs.
« Last Edit: 04:11 PM - 02/14/20 by antithesis »

Official Australian distributor for XIM APEX, Titan One & Titan Two at Mod Squad
XIM APEX demos on Twitch and YouTube. Follow Twitter for live stream alerts

Offline Newgun

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Great suggestion, @antithesis! My only problem is that I don't have the bluetooth expansion kit yet for the Titan Two. And considering the cost of the expansion kit and the Titan Two together, this setup with Xim Apex is getting to be a bit too costly.

I tried XB1 wireless (bluetooth) to Xim Apex with a wired XB1 wired to Apex for authentication over the weekend. This worked well, except the only thing is I had to do was to bind the keys of the XB1 wireless on Xim Apex Manager. The app saw the XB1 wireless as a Microsoft Controller (as opposed to a native a XB1 controller.)

This same approach will work with the PS4 Dualshock via bluetooth on the PS4, but unfortunately the touchpad controls and gestures will not pass through. So @antithesis' suggestion to use a Titan Two may be the only available solution for wireless PS4 touchpad pass thru.

I have a Cronusmax Plus which I'll test to see if that works when connected together with Xim Apex, and I'll test the Cronus Zen when it arrives later this week.

Offline antithesis

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CronusMAX PLUS has no official support for XIM APEX and will crash if attempting to use a DS4 V2 controller on XIM APEX. CronusMAX has not been updated in 3 years and has no support for wireless Xbox One connections, nor Elite V2 controllers.

Cronus Zen should be an improvement for wireless XB1 controllers, but also lacks support for XIM APEX. Zen m/kb is abysmal, so it's not a substitute for a XIM APEX.

I would have recommended spending the money on a Titan Expansion Kit instead of the Zen - it offers significantly more Bluetooth compatibility, is Low Latency and can connect Titan Two (and connected devices) wirelessly to PS4, PC, Mac, iOS & Android. I don't just mean a DS4 controller, I mean Titan Two itself. Zen can't do that.

My experience of the Zen, along with numerous other XIM forum members, has been nothing short of complete disappointment. It is little more than a CronusMAX PLUS in a new shell with extra ports for m/kb (which is terrible) and a cheap on-board BT chip. That sounds good in theory, but it's very underpowered compared to the Titan Two.

Zen uses 10 year old hardware technology and the ageing GPC programming language, which runs at 10ms by default (Gamepacks are stuck at this speed) and eats CPU like candy (potentially causing input lag). Titan Two has far more modern components and a completely rewritten GPC2 programming language which runs at sub-1ms by default with an extremely low CPU load. T2 + Expansion Kit is much powerful and capable, which is why it costs more.

And T2 can run all of the 5000+ CronusMAX and TItan One community-made GPC scripts with the addition of one line of code. Little surprise considering the man who invented CronusMAX, Titan One and Titan Two also created the GPC programming language (a subset of C). The only thing it can't run are the generic CM Gamepacks, of which you'll find better, more robust and faster versions on Titan Two for recent games.

Along with official XIM APEX support including Input and Output Polling to match Response Rate, audio & rumble passthrough, Titan Two m/kb is also decent and getting closer to XIM all the time. IMHO, it's the only viable alternative to XIM, but does require more setup and tweaking (they're working on that too).
« Last Edit: 04:05 PM - 02/17/20 by antithesis »

Official Australian distributor for XIM APEX, Titan One & Titan Two at Mod Squad
XIM APEX demos on Twitch and YouTube. Follow Twitter for live stream alerts

Offline Newgun

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Hi antithesis, really appreciate the level of details in your responses. I read your detailed review of the Cronus Zen, too, and some of it is bit over my head. I'm a causal gamer, and I'm always striving for the best way to couch game, casually. I suck with controllers but I love the medium. And although the mouse is the most precise tool for FPS games, I feel it defeats the purpose of casual couch gaming. For this reason, I have a new found love for FPS games on Steam using a Nintendo Switch Pro controller and the internal gyro for aiming - with right analog stick for bigger movements. In my opinion, the two go together so well, so much that I'm trying to get the same functionality on consoles.

What I have done was tested several air mice presenters with internal gyros. I simply stick it to the underside of the controller, and with the help of devices like Xim Apex to translate mouse movements, I essentially get the same functionality of full controller access with gyro aiming - but not really.

Air mice are abundant and cheap nowadays and I've purchased quite a few during this quirky endeavor. I found that not all gyro mice are made equally. In fact, most are sub par and nowhere near the level of the gyros found in the Nintendo Switch Pro Controller, PS4 Dualshock 4, or the Steam Controller. But, I was able to find one air mouse presenter that performed rather well. It was the Knorvay Presenter. Here's the Amazon link in case anyone is interested. Although, I plan to do more testing and maybe a video for those interested. Once I finalize my findings, I'll start a new thread to document my findings.

https://www.amazon.com/KNORVAY-Presenter-Presentation-Rechargeable-PowerPoint/dp/B0742BVNFB/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=knorvay+presenter&qid=1582071719&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExUk5TM0RXSEw2SU45JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwODMxNjU5M0Q0MlZKNUJUUE1BSyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwODc0NTAxMjZJQUhIOVRGNzhHQyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

Now back to the topic of Xim Apex, Titan One, Two, Cronusmax Plus, and Cronus Zen. What I have experienced so far in using a gyro mouse with the controller is that there is noticeable stutter. I believe the reason is because there are now multiple inputs for the look mechanic, which is the right analog stick moving simultaneously with the gyro mouse movement. The stutter happens undoubtedly with Xim Apex, Titan One and Titan Two, with the Titan Two having the worst stutter, and Xim Apex with less stutter. Surprisingly enough, this does not happen with the Cronusmax Plus. Maybe it's due to an older and basic mouse translation or something, but the combo of both controller and gyro mouse works surprisingly well with the Cronusmax Plus. No stutter, but rather quite smooth and responsive. Caveat - my objective is for casual gaming. This way of gaming with controller and Franken-modded gyro mouse is far much less superior and less accurate than with a traditional mouse, so please keep that in mind.

Lastly, there are other features of the Cronusmax Plus that turned out to be very useful but probably unintentionally for my use. I'm able to connect a PS4 wirelessly with rumble effects, full touchpad pass thru, and uninterrupted simultaneous use of the controller and gyro mouse. The only shortcoming is that it can't be used as a standalone device as it needs to be tethered to a PC for mouse translations.

My testing continues with the Cronus Zen upon its arrival. I really want a standalone device that can handle a controller wirelessly, with rumble and PS4 touchpad passthru, and all without any stutter or hiccups. If there's further interest in this, I would be glad to start a different thread to help others. I actually hope the new Xim iteration for the next consoles consider implementing a gyro hardware, perhaps as a separate device that can be attached to the new console controllers.

Thanks for the help and input, antithesis. I look forward to your thoughts and input on this.