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Mouse capabilities necessary for XIM Apex  (Read 294 times)

Offline roads

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Mouse capabilities necessary for XIM Apex
« on: 03:32 AM - 09/12/19 »
First of all I am no mouse expert, not Overclockers.net oscilloscoping mice. Just read a few pages about the topic. A lot of mouse threads on the forum, maybe leading the most non support threads by far. What mouse should I buy. A topic for all of us.
Lag ads up between the Apex and the mouse that’s for sure. Use 125hz give it 8ms lag. Use 1000hz on a non 1000hz stable mouse and add lag or jitter, I am unsure, but that jitter that happens by missing transmissions could be felt as lag. Set 12000 or 16000 dpi and get the smoothing lag which is also a 8ms lag.
So the worst setting you can do is 125hz 12-16k dpi on most mice. May be smooth for the Xim but you will lag 16ms, maybe even more than 16ms at 1000hz 2-16k dpi unsure of that. So practically 500hz non smoothing DPI mostly 2000 dpi depending on sensor is best if mouse is really stable at 500hz, true for most mice. Dig Overclockers for your sensor and mouse if you want to know where smoothing starts.
So the theoretically best would be 12-16k non smoothing stable 1000hz. Is there such a mouse? Nope there is not and there will never be from the mousemakers as the specs are unnecessary for PC gaming. As I hear the Glorious O is stable at 1000hz and no smoothing until 2000k. So the less lag you get with this mouse and you are stuck at 2000 dpi. Is that enough for the Apex? Yeah for airhockey players yes, for high sens, no, there will be too much jitter at micromovement.

I started another thread to ask Glorious gaming to remove the smoothing by firmware if possible. If the do fine we have our XIM mouse. Most likely they can not and do not want to.
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Offline slickrick

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Re: Mouse capabilities necessary for XIM Apex
« Reply #1 on: 01:04 AM - 09/14/19 »
First of all I am no mouse expert, not Overclockers.net oscilloscoping mice. Just read a few pages about the topic. A lot of mouse threads on the forum, maybe leading the most non support threads by far. What mouse should I buy. A topic for all of us.
Lag ads up between the Apex and the mouse that’s for sure. Use 125hz give it 8ms lag. Use 1000hz on a non 1000hz stable mouse and add lag or jitter, I am unsure, but that jitter that happens by missing transmissions could be felt as lag. Set 12000 or 16000 dpi and get the smoothing lag which is also a 8ms lag.
So the worst setting you can do is 125hz 12-16k dpi on most mice. May be smooth for the Xim but you will lag 16ms, maybe even more than 16ms at 1000hz 2-16k dpi unsure of that. So practically 500hz non smoothing DPI mostly 2000 dpi depending on sensor is best if mouse is really stable at 500hz, true for most mice. Dig Overclockers for your sensor and mouse if you want to know where smoothing starts.
So the theoretically best would be 12-16k non smoothing stable 1000hz. Is there such a mouse? Nope there is not and there will never be from the mousemakers as the specs are unnecessary for PC gaming. As I hear the Glorious O is stable at 1000hz and no smoothing until 2000k. So the less lag you get with this mouse and you are stuck at 2000 dpi. Is that enough for the Apex? Yeah for airhockey players yes, for high sens, no, there will be too much jitter at micromovement.

I started another thread to ask Glorious gaming to remove the smoothing by firmware if possible. If the do fine we have our XIM mouse. Most likely they can not and do not want to.
who do you hear that the glorious mouse can hold 1000 hz and the newer Logitech mice cant? also according to  logitech and a few people on YouTube that test mice and not with bro science , says the Logitech mice have NO smoothing at any DPI , 16000 included. lol idk about the smoothing part, I cant test my self but, my Gpro wireless and g903 polls over 1000 at 12000 DPI when moving the mouse, at least on the two sites I've tested on.  lol  one of the sites was recommended by either Oden or Obsiv , cant rember which one. I could have read the page on the site you recommend wrong but I thought it said the glorious had 0.4 ms of smoothing at 400 to 2000 dpi when the  3366 had no more than 0.4 ms on all DPI's . lol 
« Last Edit: 01:41 AM - 09/14/19 by slickrick »

Offline roads

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Re: Mouse capabilities necessary for XIM Apex
« Reply #2 on: 05:23 AM - 09/14/19 »
lot of lol there bro but OK chiming in. Not all Logitechs but Logitech worker says Hero sensor has no smoothing in video. Lol. Is 903 really stable at 1000 not going below? lol. Gpro is not steady at 1000 have both wireless and wired. lol.Some guys here say Glorious is stable up to 2000dpi on 1000. lol. I will test that Monday as I have it then lol. I will test G102/203 if 1000 steady but up to now I did not find any Logitech steady at 1000. lol. Od1n reported a G502 revision I think that was quite stable. Lol. Yeah so a lot in the dark sadly. There should be special Xim mouse but wont happen. Lol
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Offline Algimantas87

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Re: Mouse capabilities necessary for XIM Apex
« Reply #3 on: 08:04 AM - 09/14/19 »
I think it would be great idea, if xim apex developers could make their own mouse for xim with all the specs xim apex require to perform well. They say all new gaming mouse works well, but lets face it doesnt. I bought xim apex and sold xim4 for reason. So i could use 1000 polling rate. But they suggest to use 500 polling rate cause none of mouse on market have stable 1000 polling rate.
Xim Apex
Platform:PS4
Mouse:Logitech G305 + G Pro Wireless
Keyboard:Razer BlackWidow Chroma v2
Mouse pad: Cooler Master  MP510 Gaming Surface - XL
Headphone: Steelseries arctis pro + gamedac
Monitor:Acer GF276Abmipx 27 Inch FHD Gaming Monitor

Offline Santigold

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Re: Mouse capabilities necessary for XIM Apex
« Reply #4 on: 08:19 AM - 09/14/19 »
Erm lol. Lol? You guys realise this is like first world problems lol?

Going from 1 Khz to 500 hz has like the least impact lol, even most sensitive ppl on earth wouldnt notice a difference of literally 1 ms.

With all the BS inside the console shooters, like basic default engine input lag of above 100 milliseconds, terrible netcode, terrible hit detection, weird AA behaviour etc. that 1 ms difference would have similar effect as 1 drop of water in the sahara desert.

I mean if youre gonna care about 1 ms that much, Id expect you to be playing on a CRT monitor rather than LCD monitor. If youre not, then why worry about 1ms „lag“ of the mouse polling.

You gotta remember too that current gen consoles have some ancient trash hardware Im talking about the CPU and Chipset, even the enhanced variants. Ive read somewhere that the HDD wasnt even utilizing a native S-Ata stabdard, but some cheap solution utilizing the USB standard. So even if you throw 1 Khz at those ancient consoles, it doesnt mean they will be able to process it at rock solid 1000 updates per second. Lol

Just saying Lol.

I mean the consoles use the cheapest and shitt1est USB 3.0 chipset, low cost, low performance garbage. I once backed up my PS4 pro to an external SSD (backup of the internal HDD), it was writing data at like 25 MB/second, proper USB 3.0 can reach 400-500 MB/second. The crappy PS4 CPU probably cant handle more.
« Last Edit: 08:30 AM - 09/14/19 by Santigold »

Offline slickrick

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Re: Mouse capabilities necessary for XIM Apex
« Reply #5 on: 08:28 AM - 09/14/19 »
Erm lol. Lol? You guys realise this is like first world problems lol?

Going from 1 Khz to 500 hz has like the least impact lol, even most sensitive ppl on earth wouldnt notice a difference of literally 1 ms.

With all the BS inside the console shooters, like basic default engine input lag of above 100 milliseconds, terrible netcode, terrible hit detection, weird AA behaviour etc. that 1 ms difference would have similar effect as 1 drop of water in the sahara desert.

I mean if youre gonna care about 1 ms that much, Id expect you to be playing on a CRT monitor rather than LCD monitor. If youre not, then why worry about 1ms „lag“ of the mouse polling.

You gotta remember too that current gen consoles have some ancient trash hardware Im talking about the CPU and Chipset, even the enhanced variants. Ive read somewhere that the HDD wasnt even utilizing a native S-Ata stabdard, but some cheap solution utilizing the USB standard. So even if you throw 1 Khz at those ancient consoles, it doesnt mean they will be able to process it at rock solid 1000 updates per second. Lol

Just saying Lol.
I really dont care about the 1ms difference and roads is probably right.

Offline slickrick

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Re: Mouse capabilities necessary for XIM Apex
« Reply #6 on: 08:34 AM - 09/14/19 »
lot of lol there bro but OK chiming in. Not all Logitechs but Logitech worker says Hero sensor has no smoothing in video. Lol. Is 903 really stable at 1000 not going below? lol. Gpro is not steady at 1000 have both wireless and wired. lol.Some guys here say Glorious is stable up to 2000dpi on 1000. lol. I will test that Monday as I have it then lol. I will test G102/203 if 1000 steady but up to now I did not find any Logitech steady at 1000. lol. Od1n reported a G502 revision I think that was quite stable. Lol. Yeah so a lot in the dark sadly. There should be special Xim mouse but wont happen. Lol
your probably right but the first g903 I had never held a steady 1000hz, later on I started having right click mouse button problems so I sent the mouse back for a new one, the new one held 1000hz polling and still does. idk  if the first one was a lemon or mice are like a box of  chocolates, you never no what your going to get. lol

Offline roads

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Re: Mouse capabilities necessary for XIM Apex
« Reply #7 on: 10:30 AM - 09/14/19 »
Yeah possible the g903 holds the kilohertz. Holding means 1000 or higher never lower. Looking forward on how the Glorious holds that Value. Sure smoothing is a bigger problem but still the XIM can do 1khz and so should the mouse to match. Most mice I have don't even hold the 500hz and have to be set to 1000 to fill the 500hz of the Apex.

Quote
Erm lol. Lol? You guys realise this is like first world problems lol?
Yeah! lol You don't get the point, I want to buy a XIM mouse one that perfectly fits! Best would mouse board sensor and switches and we print the mice ourselves from STL files from the forum. That would be quite awesome.
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Offline Tetsurobash

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Re: Mouse capabilities necessary for XIM Apex
« Reply #8 on: 11:25 AM - 09/14/19 »
lot of lol there bro but OK chiming in. Not all Logitechs but Logitech worker says Hero sensor has no smoothing in video. Lol. Is 903 really stable at 1000 not going below? lol. Gpro is not steady at 1000 have both wireless and wired. lol.Some guys here say Glorious is stable up to 2000dpi on 1000. lol. I will test that Monday as I have it then lol. I will test G102/203 if 1000 steady but up to now I did not find any Logitech steady at 1000. lol. Od1n reported a G502 revision I think that was quite stable. Lol. Yeah so a lot in the dark sadly. There should be special Xim mouse but wont happen. Lol

lol.... I just had to. lol.

Offline roads

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Re: Mouse capabilities necessary for XIM Apex
« Reply #9 on: 11:26 AM - 09/14/19 »
Ya it’s the lol thread.
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Offline slickrick

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Re: Mouse capabilities necessary for XIM Apex
« Reply #10 on: 11:44 AM - 09/15/19 »
lot of lol there bro but OK chiming in. Not all Logitechs but Logitech worker says Hero sensor has no smoothing in video. Lol. Is 903 really stable at 1000 not going below? lol. Gpro is not steady at 1000 have both wireless and wired. lol.Some guys here say Glorious is stable up to 2000dpi on 1000. lol. I will test that Monday as I have it then lol. I will test G102/203 if 1000 steady but up to now I did not find any Logitech steady at 1000. lol. Od1n reported a G502 revision I think that was quite stable. Lol. Yeah so a lot in the dark sadly. There should be special Xim mouse but wont happen. Lol

lol.... I just had to. lol.
so your saying the g502 will, but the gpro wont? lol   they have the same sensor. lol