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Apex Legends developers address K&M on consoles  (Read 5670 times)

Offline marvelouslie

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Re: Apex Legends developers address K&M on consoles
« Reply #15 on: 12:46 PM - 07/20/19 »
As I said before, Respawn isn't going to do anything about this. They did it solely to appease to the people crying and whining on the subreddit.

They gave their "Official response" on it, and that's as far as it's going to go.

Yep. After Epic and Fortnite's f***-up, and they started banning disabled gamers, I doubt anyone will "do anything" about it in the long run. The people whining about XIM users will never be as large as a handful of them, and the fact that developers have to address this at all instead of just ignoring them just continues to baffle me.

Offline Theaznway

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Re: Apex Legends developers address K&M on consoles
« Reply #16 on: 03:16 PM - 07/20/19 »
Ea support donít care that we are using a xim , just go ask to their support.Respawn are under ea and wonít do anything about it because we donít violate any tos

Offline antithesis

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Re: Apex Legends developers address K&M on consoles
« Reply #17 on: 03:49 PM - 07/20/19 »
It’s also noteworthy that disabled gamers account for 15% of all gamers. That’s higher than the percentage of left-handers at roughly 12% of gamers.

I (barely) fall into both categories - I'm a lefty and I have limited right thumb mobility and sensation due to a severed nerve 25 years ago. It's about 25% as mobile, dextrous and fast as my left thumb, I can't feel it half the time and I'm expected to use this thing to reliably aim with a controller?

Lefty mode is way too hard to adapt to after decades of gaming with conventional controls and that doesn't solve the problem of still needing two thumbs to use a controller. Frankly, I'm extremely lucky - there are gamers here with missing digits and limbs, or severe conditions that mean they can't even hold a controller.

The only device I found that completely bypasses my physical constraints is a XIM (and I own all alternatives). I could not be a console gamer without one and would not spend thousands of dollars a year buying console games if I couldn't use a XIM.

After decades of searching, I finally settled on a XIM, ambidextrous mice (don't get me started on that topic...) and a lefty Azeron Compact so I can use a mouse to aim and a thumbstick to move. That's a @#$% long time to simply find something, anything that enables me to play ANY game comfortably, and that could be taken away because someone else can't git gud and uses XIM as a scapegoat without a single concept of how it really works? Bring out the pitchforks, we gots ourselves a witch hunt!

Let's take the "morality" of using mouse & keyboard on a controller-based platform (let's ban steering wheels, HOTAS, arcade sticks and plastic guitars while we're at it...) and the simple FACT that both Sony and Microsoft have officially-licenced m/kb adapters for PS4 and XB1, from a financial perspective, is it worth a company’s time and money to negatively impact up to 15% of their playerbase to filter less than .01% of XIM users?

Grow a pair ladies - you're being beaten by controller users in 99.99% of engagements in popular games like Fortnite and Apex Legends. That percentage may increase with smaller playerbases and more hardcore competitive gameplay, but it's still going to exceed 90-95% in favour of controller users even in the most extreme XIM use case scenario.

Bottom line - I'm not going to spend a cent on any game that dictates the controls I must use on a gaming system that openly supports mouse & keyboard and offers licenced adapters. It's in violation of consumer rights, anti-discrimination acts and arguably human rights...that's a pretty tough bridge to cross for Respawn to genuinely consider.

I don't use a XIM to cheat, I use a XIM to compete with more able-bodied gamers. I just want to relax and have some fun - getting wrecked by forcing unusable controls on me means I don't spend money to play those games. Pretty simple, really.
« Last Edit: 05:42 PM - 07/20/19 by antithesis »

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Offline GamingNerd

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Re: Apex Legends developers address K&M on consoles
« Reply #18 on: 06:50 PM - 07/20/19 »
@OBsIV

If you'd be on the other side, would you be able to do something against XIM users?

Just wondering  ;D

SAB (and other things XIM does in this area that I haven't talked about) was designed first and foremost to behave like a controller and also include the inherent randomness that comes with it too without degrading the user's experience.

That said, I do look at the output and think about how I would identify patterns that would be completely reliable since the bar is very high -- you cannot be wrong under any circumstances since you will falsely detect controller users. Given their numbers, even if they were to be able to achieve a 99% detection rate, they will be falsely blocking thousands of their controller gamers.

I'm especially passionate about this because, as I've mentioned in other posts, I've gotten many mails from people with disabilities or parents of those with disabilities thanking me for XIM and how it's changed their or their kids lives. That they finally can be included into something like gaming. This is something that we all take for granted and I'm not going to let a bunch of whiners routinely place blame on XIM even though reality is they got killed by another controller player and they really aren't as good as they think they are.
Amen, i am greatly appreciative of your hard work. It helps those of us that are not disabled but have minor hand issues as well.
The Xim is not a magical tool that is going to make you a god. Time, effort and perseverance is what will take your gaming to the next level.

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Offline papi

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Re: Apex Legends developers address K&M on consoles
« Reply #19 on: 10:37 PM - 07/20/19 »
I am having a hard time seeing a problem. If this were a real issue XIM users would be dominating every single game, and I don't think that is the case. Personally, sometimes I rock, more often I get wasted. I can't tell if I got wasted by a controller user or k&m. The device only allows an interface, the user has to do the rest. Will they try to ban the Elite Controller users on XB1? That is one high-tech controller that can be personalized to give a good player a better advantage.

Offline GamingNerd

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Re: Apex Legends developers address K&M on consoles
« Reply #20 on: 10:43 PM - 07/20/19 »
I am having a hard time seeing a problem. If this were a real issue XIM users would be dominating every single game, and I don't think that is the case. Personally, sometimes I rock, more often I get wasted. I can't tell if I got wasted by a controller user or k&m. The device only allows an interface, the user has to do the rest. Will they try to ban the Elite Controller users on XB1? That is one high-tech controller that can be personalized to give a good player a better advantage.
Exactly, as well as the scuf controllers with movement advantages and modded controllers with overwhelming advantages like sniper breath, drop shot, auto-run, jump shot and jitter mods. Something that has been a real issue since Ps3, and an issue that couldn't be solved because ban waves were banning legitimate players. So they can put a sock in it if you ask me until they fix all of the things that really need to be fixed.
The Xim is not a magical tool that is going to make you a god. Time, effort and perseverance is what will take your gaming to the next level.

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Offline Strykain

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Re: Apex Legends developers address K&M on consoles
« Reply #21 on: 11:56 PM - 07/20/19 »
I am having a hard time seeing a problem. If this were a real issue XIM users would be dominating every single game, and I don't think that is the case. Personally, sometimes I rock, more often I get wasted. I can't tell if I got wasted by a controller user or k&m. The device only allows an interface, the user has to do the rest. Will they try to ban the Elite Controller users on XB1? That is one high-tech controller that can be personalized to give a good player a better advantage.

I know 3 people who use the XIM and I regularly do better than them with my normal controller. It's unfortunate that most people who complain about XIM users don't take any time to research the actual device. They see one or two "Big" youtubers talk about how it's such a huge advantage and take their word for it, when those youtubers have never even used the device. They themselves are just going off what they see.
I've been a PC gamer for the past 10 years, and only recently came back to Console. I'm used to playing at 2000DPI and enough sense to do a 170 (give or take) turn with just my wrist. That's "High" for a lot of people, but I can't do that on Console due to the turn limitation. I can't do insane crazy 180 snaps on people without losing tracking because I'm naturally a wrist aimer.
It took me FOREVER to adjust to actually moving my arm/lifting the mouse up to have full turns.

Offline ThedirtyRabbit

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Re: Apex Legends developers address K&M on consoles
« Reply #22 on: 12:26 AM - 07/21/19 »
I broke my right humb using a pipe cutting years ago. I've never regain the strength and dexterity back that it used to have. I've main stuck to RPGs because of this. I was always at a disadvantage against others at all console FPS's. I got a Xim so I could play on a even Battlefield. I kill and get killed.I hate that Xim is the scapegoat for the less skilled players. On the bright side, even time a scrub cries online that's free advertisement.


Offline wnb

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Re: Apex Legends developers address K&M on consoles
« Reply #23 on: 12:32 AM - 07/21/19 »
it all depends what a person wants from a game really dosnt it.. as this new cod may well decide ... your shrouds will destroy no matter what. but your faze optics and what not will also adjust and play a new style .... you will have your stock standard pc hackers... and you will have your modding console players...

i think xim is a tiny problem for them really... alot of people use it yer ... they get an advantage over your avg player but top tier ..... its all the same at the end of the day zues beat hades in one place hades beat zues in another... but if what you want is to be top tier .. i dont think your ganna do it on a xim (physically yes you could be the best any mastery is possible just adapt to weaknesses) but i mean would u get 1million followers and be invited to play at events and be called a pro ? i highly doubt it 1 you will get hate from the console players... 2 you will get hate from the uninformed pc players when they find out your getting aim assist and using a mnkb .. so ... it is what it is
 /endrant
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Offline YIAZ-M

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Re: Apex Legends developers address K&M on consoles
« Reply #24 on: 02:10 AM - 07/21/19 »
Blizzard told the same thing a few years ago.

The truth is a lot of players are just whinning when they get instant killed "he's a K/M user!!"

No, he's just a skilled pad user lol.

I'm plat 2  and even with my K/M, most of good players are just insane with a controller, I used to play on PC and sometime I get killed faster than on PC by controller users.


Now, I really don't think they can reliably identify a XIM, I think they should focus on their aimbot cheaters on PC because the top ladders are not a K/M fest on consoles at all lol.

Offline Breizeredge

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Re: Apex Legends developers address K&M on consoles
« Reply #25 on: 03:26 AM - 07/21/19 »
@#$%, OBsIV Will need to do something because if XIM players  are going to be banned from their main game, they gonna lost the company.
Once respawn will find a way, others games will do the same, fornite, call of, etc...
You will see every XIM on any marketplace and no one will want to buy one.
They could easily detect it by the way. Simply by analyzing that a player is constantly walking at full speed, or looking around with specific pattern. It worked for me for a project I had in school, I had a rate of 92.7%  and  it gave some false positives.
And so what? Even if it gave 1000 false positive this is a the same with some anti cheat on PC, I had a false positive on Fortnite and I lost my account.. it was a long road to get it back, but itís the case for many people.
So yes there are going to find a way to detect the xim and other device.
And when they will find a way, other device will be created, etc.. etc.. etc..

Offline antithesis

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Re: Apex Legends developers address K&M on consoles
« Reply #26 on: 03:34 AM - 07/21/19 »
Calm down Henny Penny. XIM already has countermeasures and hasn't been detected in over a decade. If it was easy, it'd be done by now.

That also doesn't account for the fact that both PS4 and Xbox One have native m/kb support and licenced m/kb adapters. Do you really think that Respawn is going to block licenced gear? Why do you think Fortnite backed down?

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Offline The prodigy

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Re: Apex Legends developers address K&M on consoles
« Reply #27 on: 04:43 AM - 07/21/19 »
Respawn is going to succeed where Epic games has failed!  ;D ;D
What a joke it took these poor guys months to fix a simple disconnect issue

Offline OBsIV

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Re: Apex Legends developers address K&M on consoles
« Reply #28 on: 09:48 AM - 07/21/19 »
They could easily detect it by the way. Simply by analyzing that a player is constantly walking at full speed, or looking around with specific pattern. It worked for me for a project I had in school, I had a rate of 92.7%  and  it gave some false positives.
And so what? Even if it gave 1000 false positive this is a the same with some anti cheat on PC, I had a false positive on Fortnite and I lost my account.. it was a long road to get it back, but itís the case for many people.

Are you a software engineer and/or do you run a game development studio? :) The reason I ask this is because you making some very bold assertions. You are talking about input patterns. As I mentioned, if you can't see differentiating patterns between the input types, then you can't be 100% certain. And yes, they need to be 100% certain. This isn't PC, console gamers will not be accepting of game developers putting out updates that would falsely ban them. That will destroy their game on console.
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Offline Od1n

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Re: Apex Legends developers address K&M on consoles
« Reply #29 on: 09:55 AM - 07/21/19 »
Hori will just knock at the Sony and Microsoft door and demand their officially licenced mouse and keyboard adapter to work again. Game developers have to agree to the rules of the console manufacturers and Sony/Microsoft will just tell Respawn to remove their policy.

Respawn might not be aware of that yet but if they do more research on the matter they will be. Until then this PR statement is meant to please the crowd, so nothing new really. They could be fine by separating the matchmaking but then again you have the false-positives that Obsiv already mentioned.
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