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Mice can't poll 1000hz on Console [TEST]  (Read 3084 times)

Offline Kingownagexx

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Mice can't poll 1000hz on Console [TEST]
« on: 09:34 AM - 06/20/19 »
People have blamed inconsistent polling rates the higher your polling rate is on the mouse's processor inside being too weak, however this is only partially true. Even if you have a Zowie FK2 you're not going to poll 1000hz consistently. Polling rate isn't only determined by the mouse's processor, that information is sent through the XIM and then through the Xbox. It is then processed as quickly and accurately as possible and through that translation since Xbox is not a PC that was meant for this it is not as accurate and there is one additional step it must go through unlike a PC making it even slower. By the time it reaches your game as input it is not 1000hz almost ever, according to my test on my Zowie I was getting an average of 940-975hz and it kept jumping around.

Here are some test examples of what it looks like.
http://imgur.com/a/vu2D7UR

If you are thinking about getting a mouse just because you really want the best 1000hz experience since polling rate is more important on the XIM as it combats aim assist then dont. Just get a mouse with a flawless sensor that has a comfortable shape for you. This is also not saying do not use 1000hz, it is just saying do not expect actual 1000hz. You are using a device that emulates a mouse and keyboard this is not a PC.
« Last Edit: 11:55 AM - 06/20/19 by Kingownagexx »
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Offline GamingNerd

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Re: Mice can't poll 1000hz on Console [TEST]
« Reply #1 on: 10:00 AM - 06/20/19 »
Look at things this way. You want as fast a response time you can get with your mouse Right? Well, the 945+ that your pulling is more than enough because it's way faster than the 2ms response time that you will get using 500 Hz. But, let's think a little more outside of box now. Statistical data aside, your brain can't even calculate the difference visually between 2ms and 1ms response time. The refresh rate of both 500 hz and 1000 Hz no matter how much your mouse actually polls is far too fast to even comprehend.

Now that I'm running my xim apex as a Xim 4 I use 1000 Hz on my mouse. Just as I did with my Xim 4. My mouse polls around the same as yours. It doesn't output a consistent 1000 hz.  Yet it's smooth, fast and accurate. There are no inconsistencies in my aiming behavior that i can visually see even though I'm not polling at 1000 Hz consistently. And even though I'm not polling at 1000 Hz consistently my response time is way faster than 2ms. It may not be a spot on 1ms response time, but it's not slower than 2ms. So to all caught up on numbers I wouldn't even worry about the data.
The Xim is not a magical tool that is going to make you a god. Time, effort and perseverance is what will take your gaming to the next level.

[Ps4] [Sony Nav] [T9 Gamepad] [Logitech G502 Proteus] [Dpi's: 12,000, 3200, 4000, 2400] [Syncs: Off and Common]

Offline ceebs

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Re: Mice can't poll 1000hz on Console [TEST]
« Reply #2 on: 10:15 AM - 06/20/19 »
So to all caught up on numbers I wouldn't even worry about the data.
True that.
« Last Edit: 10:38 AM - 06/21/19 by ceebs »

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Offline Kingownagexx

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Re: Mice can't poll 1000hz on Console [TEST]
« Reply #3 on: 10:18 AM - 06/20/19 »
There has been many test done I can link you to that show an increase in performance when using a more stable polling rate, it's more than just numbers. The reason only test shows these isn't because it has no effect on you it's because it's so subtle that you don't know that you're performing worse, or at least you can't pinpoint it on your hz.

At the end of the day it is all preference, I love the responsiveness of 1000hz and if you do too then use it. But if you're making micro-adjustments or anything then it will negatively impact you but again that isn't detectable by your eye you don't notice your mouse having small missteps like that but it does affect your aim quality. Furthermore on the xim 500hz is less jittery as well, so it's all about how you prefer your gameplay

Do you want something super responsive, fast, and touchy? Or something stable, smoother, and more accurate, at the cost of the things above. Those are the two sets you can choose from and either or it is a slight sacrifice but on the XIM these effects are amplified due to it just being an emulation and not the real thing. Also my original post was informative not persuasive I'm not trying to change anyones mind, I'm trying to make sure no one buys a mouse just for its internal processor. It's a really dumb idea to do that, especially since it's useless on the XIM.
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Offline GamingNerd

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Re: Mice can't poll 1000hz on Console [TEST]
« Reply #4 on: 11:20 AM - 06/20/19 »
You have to remember that this is console and not pc. These factors that you're mentioning would pose more of an issue on pc than on console. As I've stated 940+ Hz is more than enough. Especially when you're dealing with console. You need your mouse to be as responsive as possible. I dont experience the jitter and issues with my micro movements that you've stated. If anyone has that issue I would recommend that they change mouse pads. I had the same issue with cloth pads. I would also suggest using certain advanced settings in moderation because they can cause jitter as well. Having too low of a dpi could even cause jitter. But, using the xim in a raw format (which was recommended) at 3200 dpi (also recommended at once) should not cause jitter. I use 1000 hz. I'd recommend it to anyone willing to listen. It is all preference at the end of the day. To all new users try all options.
The Xim is not a magical tool that is going to make you a god. Time, effort and perseverance is what will take your gaming to the next level.

[Ps4] [Sony Nav] [T9 Gamepad] [Logitech G502 Proteus] [Dpi's: 12,000, 3200, 4000, 2400] [Syncs: Off and Common]

Offline Kingownagexx

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Re: Mice can't poll 1000hz on Console [TEST]
« Reply #5 on: 11:46 AM - 06/20/19 »
I don't think you're understanding that I've done this test with 4 different mice. A Zowie FK2, Model O, G502 Hero, and a Razer Deathadder. All of these mice from 4 different companies had polling imperfections. I tested this across games with perfect predictable ST's. The polling rate rapidly malfunctioned has in kept changing and there were slight inconsistencies in micro movements.

I also don't think you're understanding these issue are there whether or not you see it or feel it, it's just the limitations of the console and XIM. So as I said use what you prefer, but these issues exist. I recorded my screen at 60fps and slowed down the frames across 1000hz and 500hz and I plan on uploading a video in great detail for the XIM about how each sync and polling effects the mouse movements if I can edit all my data in a professional informative way that the average person would understand.

It's not that easy to to explain things like these and try to simplify them, but if you get polls off timed by as much has half a millisecond stutter will be apparent in cursor (emulated analog) behavior.
XIM Apex - Xbox One X

Offline GamingNerd

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Re: Mice can't poll 1000hz on Console [TEST]
« Reply #6 on: 01:34 PM - 06/20/19 »
Ok. Good luck on whatever you're trying to achieve. This topic has been covered many times already.
The Xim is not a magical tool that is going to make you a god. Time, effort and perseverance is what will take your gaming to the next level.

[Ps4] [Sony Nav] [T9 Gamepad] [Logitech G502 Proteus] [Dpi's: 12,000, 3200, 4000, 2400] [Syncs: Off and Common]

Offline antithesis

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Re: Mice can't poll 1000hz on Console [TEST]
« Reply #7 on: 07:26 PM - 06/20/19 »
XIM Apex can poll at 1000Hz, OBsIV has provided proof via USB analysis, as has J2Kbr at ConsoleTuner.

Whether the mouse is going to poll at 1000Hz though is questionable given most mice likely won't perform at that rate consistently. Test the mouse on PC using polling apps, you'll find the same result.

500Hz is more than enough and reduces the chance of jitter, so it's what I use and recommend. The only time I'd use 1000Hz is if there are hitbox entry issues at lower polling rates (eg Black Ops 4). I set the Apex to 500Hz Response Rate and leave the mouse at 1000Hz polling, so I can adjust it as needed.

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Offline Kingownagexx

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Re: Mice can't poll 1000hz on Console [TEST]
« Reply #8 on: 07:57 PM - 06/20/19 »
I never said XIM couldn't pull it, but even if you have the best mouse you won't do it consistently due to console limitations. On PC it's a similar story but it's still better
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Offline antithesis

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Re: Mice can't poll 1000hz on Console [TEST]
« Reply #9 on: 08:04 PM - 06/20/19 »
I posted re: XIM Apex response rate polling to the console at 1000Hz so punters don't get confused with 1000Hz mouse polling and start going all Henny Penny on us.

The XIM can do it, the mouse may or may not - they don't run at 1000Hz at all times (especially when idle).

In any case, I agree that 1000Hz may not be the ideal mouse polling rate for XIM gaming, particularly for anyone suffering from jitter.

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Offline Kingownagexx

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Re: Mice can't poll 1000hz on Console [TEST]
« Reply #10 on: 09:04 PM - 06/20/19 »
The XIM was built for the best mouse emulation and best experience so of course IT can but there's still all these convertions hat go through it and by the time it hits the game bas input it's almost never 1000hz even on my Zowie FK2. In any case I didn't point out the xims console limitation on its polling to throw shade or to persuade anyone to change but merely to inform people like me who love to get down to the little specs and nitty gritty and see how everything works. Understanding the XIM helps me utilize it to it's full potential and it's interesting.
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Offline Feel

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Re: Mice can't poll 1000hz on Console [TEST]
« Reply #11 on: 09:35 PM - 06/20/19 »
You said you tested the model O. Any complaints or hangs up when using it? I know the sensor adds smoothing above 2000 dpi, any issues with that? I wanna get one but not if it doesnít play well with XIM in particular. I know itís amazing on pc but Iím not fan of switching mouses when I wanna play console. Thank you

Offline Kingownagexx

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Re: Mice can't poll 1000hz on Console [TEST]
« Reply #12 on: 09:43 PM - 06/20/19 »
I got the matte black model o, it's mouse movement feels fine (I play at 4k and 12k depending on the game for reference) no jitter or spin outs caused by the mouse and it has on board memory, along with a lot of features and macros for the on board memory too which is good because logitech has great software but most of their features get disabled with on board memory. The only problem I had is that I had to turn down the brightness of its LEDs in the software cause it consumed a lot of power on my XIM, which made it look beautiful. And you already know about the shape and the weight so no reason to talk about that, everything works great on the XIM it's a very compatible device.
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Offline Crushtaculer

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Re: Mice can't poll 1000hz on Console [TEST]
« Reply #13 on: 09:32 AM - 06/21/19 »

Now that I'm running my xim apex as a Xim 4 I use 1000 Hz on my mouse. Just as I did with my Xim 4. My mouse polls around the same as yours. It doesn't output a consistent 1000 hz.  Yet it's smooth, fast and accurate. There are no inconsistencies in my aiming behavior that i can visually see even though I'm not polling at 1000 Hz consistently. And even though I'm not polling at 1000 Hz consistently my response time is way faster than 2ms. It may not be a spot on 1ms response time, but it's not slower than 2ms. So to all caught up on numbers I wouldn't even worry about the data.

You seem a little confused, if your running your xim apex as a xim 4 at 125hz even though your mouse is polling at 1000hz your console is only recieving the 125hz you have the xim set to.  So you response time is not "way faster" than the 2ms (500hz),  it's actually slower at 8ms (125hz).   

Offline GamingNerd

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Re: Mice can't poll 1000hz on Console [TEST]
« Reply #14 on: 09:18 PM - 06/21/19 »

Now that I'm running my xim apex as a Xim 4 I use 1000 Hz on my mouse. Just as I did with my Xim 4. My mouse polls around the same as yours. It doesn't output a consistent 1000 hz.  Yet it's smooth, fast and accurate. There are no inconsistencies in my aiming behavior that i can visually see even though I'm not polling at 1000 Hz consistently. And even though I'm not polling at 1000 Hz consistently my response time is way faster than 2ms. It may not be a spot on 1ms response time, but it's not slower than 2ms. So to all caught up on numbers I wouldn't even worry about the data.

You seem a little confused, if your running your xim apex as a xim 4 at 125hz even though your mouse is polling at 1000hz your console is only recieving the 125hz you have the xim set to.  So you response time is not "way faster" than the 2ms (500hz),  it's actually slower at 8ms (125hz).
Do you think Xim polling and mouse polling are the same thing????? If you do you need to do some research because you're the one that's confused. The only way my mouse will poll at 125 Hz is if I set it to 125 hz. My mouse will report my movements at a 1ms refresh rate even if my xim is set to 125 hz so as long as it is set to 1000 hz and my mouse can actually poll at 1000 Hz. My xim can be set to any polling rate so as long as it's not higher than the polling rate of my mouse.

If you think Xim polling and mouse polling are the same. Then you're basically saying that I can set my xim to 250 hz and my mouse to 125hz and even though my mouse is at 125 Hz (8ms response time) then I have a 4ms response time just because my xim is set to 250 hz. That's not possible.
« Last Edit: 09:30 PM - 06/21/19 by GamingNerd »
The Xim is not a magical tool that is going to make you a god. Time, effort and perseverance is what will take your gaming to the next level.

[Ps4] [Sony Nav] [T9 Gamepad] [Logitech G502 Proteus] [Dpi's: 12,000, 3200, 4000, 2400] [Syncs: Off and Common]


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