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And they call us, cheaters...  (Read 872 times)

Offline smk_gaming

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Re: And they call us, cheaters...
« Reply #15 on: 11:49 AM - 02/11/19 »
So SMK when do you think the video will be released?

I am hoping this Friday, the script is done

Offline alanmcgregor

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Re: And they call us, cheaters...
« Reply #16 on: 12:21 PM - 02/11/19 »
Oh Hello there!, smk_gaming :)

Congrats on your latest video, I acknowledge the time and effort you did to make that research, I expect no less on the next video. I'm a new subscriber, for sure.

Cheating ruins gaming experience.

I identify myself as PC player, played all Battlefields since 2002, Battlefield 2 is my favorite. Last 3 years I got a console, because like any man at his late 40's, PC gaming is a hobby but I like to socialize with my IRL friends and most of them are console players, I prefer 1000X playing with them than a bunch of strangers, chatting, joking and socializing.

XIM give me the option of playing these games in a input device more familiar for me, I can do well with controller, I play better (more comfortable) with XIM M&KB but I'm not the God leaderboard try-hard most people assume, I'm 80% joking around playing just for the fun of it.

But Battlefield that's the game I do enjoy playing by myself on PC and try-harding with a real mouse and keyboard experience; I actually got a new GTX 2080 for it (regretting right now). However as you might know, EA/DICE anti-cheating is so deficient, last two months is every single lobby, a guy with damage modifiers, single shooting, I got snipe with a syringe ... yea, hilarious.

So I'm push myself to play on Console, with a sub-par hardware (console brothers, no offense, but there is nothing like playing 1440p 144FPS with a true M&KB) but no hackers/cheaters, I can enjoy my game... with the device I had play the last 30 years, cheating to the eyes of salty uninformed players... but enjoying this small pleasure I had after working hard every day dealing with nasty stuff most people don't on his lifetime; So for me is like a cold beer on summer, or that warm spot of sunlight on winter.

About Titan Two and Scritping. (Which XIM does not support, that's another device)

Once I wrote a script, for a child who suffer from diabetes, which flare up an acute case of essential tremor, which is a neurological disorder, causes involuntary and rhythmic shaking looks like a early parkinson's, is not. That scripts allow him (for steady aim/antirecoil and auto aiming) to play videogames on a certain degree... so he can have what most of us had. Unfortunately, things like that are abuse for perfect healthy people that want an advantage, that bothers me. But that is life.
« Last Edit: 12:34 PM - 02/11/19 by alanmcgregor »
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Offline JT Jenkins

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Re: And they call us, cheaters...
« Reply #17 on: 12:59 PM - 02/11/19 »
Based on the little I know about Titan, there appears to be far more of an argument to be had about cheating through scripts which automate something that otherwise would require manual input and dexterity via a controller or XIM/KBM.

Offline smk_gaming

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Re: And they call us, cheaters...
« Reply #18 on: 01:27 PM - 02/11/19 »
Oh Hello there!, smk_gaming :)

Congrats on your latest video, I acknowledge the time and effort you did to make that research, I expect no less on the next video. I'm a new subscriber, for sure.

Cheating ruins gaming experience.

I identify myself as PC player, played all Battlefields since 2002, Battlefield 2 is my favorite. Last 3 years I got a console, because like any man at his late 40's, PC gaming is a hobby but I like to socialize with my IRL friends and most of them are console players, I prefer 1000X playing with them than a bunch of strangers, chatting, joking and socializing.

XIM give me the option of playing these games in a input device more familiar for me, I can do well with controller, I play better (more comfortable) with XIM M&KB but I'm not the God leaderboard try-hard most people assume, I'm 80% joking around playing just for the fun of it.

But Battlefield that's the game I do enjoy playing by myself on PC and try-harding with a real mouse and keyboard experience; I actually got a new GTX 2080 for it (regretting right now). However as you might know, EA/DICE anti-cheating is so deficient, last two months is every single lobby, a guy with damage modifiers, single shooting, I got snipe with a syringe ... yea, hilarious.

So I'm push myself to play on Console, with a sub-par hardware (console brothers, no offense, but there is nothing like playing 1440p 144FPS with a true M&KB) but no hackers/cheaters, I can enjoy my game... with the device I had play the last 30 years, cheating to the eyes of salty uninformed players... but enjoying this small pleasure I had after working hard every day dealing with nasty stuff most people don't on his lifetime; So for me is like a cold beer on summer, or that warm spot of sunlight on winter.

About Titan Two and Scritping. (Which XIM does not support, that's another device)

Once I wrote a script, for a child who suffer from diabetes, which flare up an acute case of essential tremor, which is a neurological disorder, causes involuntary and rhythmic shaking looks like a early parkinson's, is not. That scripts allow him (for steady aim/antirecoil and auto aiming) to play videogames on a certain degree... so he can have what most of us had. Unfortunately, things like that are abuse for perfect healthy people that want an advantage, that bothers me. But that is life.

I address everything you pretty much mention in your comment. I am very through in my video. I do not do the typical mnk adapter bashing you find in most videos, in fact, there isn't any mnk bashing lol. The video will probably be around the 20 minute mark as with my other one but in it I hope to clear up a lot of misinformation going around

Offline smk_gaming

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Re: And they call us, cheaters...
« Reply #19 on: 01:28 PM - 02/11/19 »
Based on the little I know about Titan, there appears to be far more of an argument to be had about cheating through scripts which automate something that otherwise would require manual input and dexterity via a controller or XIM/KBM.

Very true, I look at this stuff outside of mnk to determine are these the real problem?

Offline parjn

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Re: And they call us, cheaters...
« Reply #20 on: 02:58 PM - 02/11/19 »
Did you actually get your hands on a xim and try it out? I'm just curious.
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Offline smk_gaming

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Re: And they call us, cheaters...
« Reply #21 on: 08:22 AM - 02/12/19 »
Did you actually get your hands on a xim and try it out? I'm just curious.

My first part of the video I look into basically what the console manufactures and game developers say about these devices and then how they effectively have clashing opinions. I want to highlight this first and then go into what these devices can actually do in a later video. So of course what better way to show off by using an mnk adapter for that video. I wanted to do it in the one coming this friday but it is already too long in my opinion, 27 minutes currently. I do go into detail looking as sony's t&c's game developers stance on mnk. I also look at the competitive scene and how they view them. I want to be known for being detailed in my videos whilst being clear and informative. 

I got a cronusmax though, I don't know why but in the comments second on my video and pretty much all messages I have received (Facebook, twitter etc) have been about that device, people really hate it. Personally I heard the xim is a better adaptor for mnk but everyone is hating on cronus right now.

Offline asilver

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Re: And they call us, cheaters...
« Reply #22 on: 09:00 AM - 02/12/19 »
The people that hate on it really donít know much about gaming, theyíre wasting their time. I donít see why a console battlefield player would even care about xim, about 75% of them are proning the entire match trying to get a invisibility glitch advantage. I can easily put up high kill games (40-5) in BFV console or PC but Iíd rather play games that donít have cheesy bugs. Iíd rather play the occasional hacker than have the entire server proning w zero awareness like they do on console. It feels like youíre playing bots. It blows my mind that anyone would care about stats in such a uncompetitive game.

If the BR mode has this invisible player bs itíll be doa
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Offline Od1n

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Re: And they call us, cheaters...
« Reply #23 on: 10:14 PM - 02/12/19 »
a lot of people over here dislike the cronus as well, from how i understood it the reason is that the cronus team dumped the original creator of the product in a very shady way
that person now created a different brand with devices named Titan One and Titan Two which have a better reputation here
i could be wrong about that though, maybe look into it up if you are interested in that


either way both microsoft and sony are fine with mouse and keyboard adapters
not only do they both have their own official mouse and keyboard adapter on the market (see their websites under official input devices) but also high executives of eg microsoft have stated that they prefer to use the xim over the controller
those adapters also dont violate the ToS of both consoles (except for those that offer scripting and macroing ofc)


also one thing that most controller players get wrong is that they assume that with a mouse and keyboard adapter on a console you will have exactly the same aiming experience as on a pc, which is absolutly not the case due to several reasons
for instance you have the limitations of a console
consoles have a much higher game engine lag which delays all of your inputs
this becomes more noticeable when using a mouse than an analogstick
also there is the maximum turnspeed that you cannot exceed, in most games thats very slow even when fully maxed out (halo, destiny, gta, apex legends, anthem, the divsion, uncharted, ...)
next to that most of those games either run unsteady 30fps or unsteady 60fps, you will rarely find a game that runs as smooth as its PC counterpart

and then there is the aim assist, which is optimized for analog stick movements
mouse movements are quite different to analog stick movements (unsteady in both velocity and direction)
the aim assist algortihm only works with analog stick movements which is why you often find yourself fighting against the aim assist than seeing some benefits from it
which is understandable, i mean the game devs didnt consider mouse movments when coding the games aim assist
and in the scenarios in which you do have aim assist you usually only have like 20-30% of the overall aim assist due to the difference between mouse and analog stick movements

i could continue to extend this list but the bottom line is that most controller players think about how accurate pc pros are with a mouse on a 2080 rtx system with 240hz monitors and no inputlag when they thing about mouse and keyboard adapters
id be curious how accurate those pro players would be if their game ran constant 27-28fps on an old tft monitor @ 100 milliseconds inputlag to mimic the engine lag and a capped maximum turnspeed (and then you still dont have the aim assist issues)

using a xim is more about playing with your favourite input device with which you enjoy the game much more than gaining an advantage
« Last Edit: 10:19 PM - 02/12/19 by Od1n »
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Offline ceebs

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Re: And they call us, cheaters...
« Reply #24 on: 04:44 AM - 02/13/19 »
a lot of people over here dislike the cronus as well, from how i understood it the reason is that the cronus team dumped the original creator of the product in a very shady way
that person now created a different brand with devices named Titan One and Titan Two which have a better reputation here
i could be wrong about that though, maybe look into it up if you are interested in that


either way both microsoft and sony are fine with mouse and keyboard adapters
not only do they both have their own official mouse and keyboard adapter on the market (see their websites under official input devices) but also high executives of eg microsoft have stated that they prefer to use the xim over the controller
those adapters also dont violate the ToS of both consoles (except for those that offer scripting and macroing ofc)


also one thing that most controller players get wrong is that they assume that with a mouse and keyboard adapter on a console you will have exactly the same aiming experience as on a pc, which is absolutly not the case due to several reasons
for instance you have the limitations of a console
consoles have a much higher game engine lag which delays all of your inputs
this becomes more noticeable when using a mouse than an analogstick
also there is the maximum turnspeed that you cannot exceed, in most games thats very slow even when fully maxed out (halo, destiny, gta, apex legends, anthem, the divsion, uncharted, ...)
next to that most of those games either run unsteady 30fps or unsteady 60fps, you will rarely find a game that runs as smooth as its PC counterpart

and then there is the aim assist, which is optimized for analog stick movements
mouse movements are quite different to analog stick movements (unsteady in both velocity and direction)
the aim assist algortihm only works with analog stick movements which is why you often find yourself fighting against the aim assist than seeing some benefits from it
which is understandable, i mean the game devs didnt consider mouse movments when coding the games aim assist
and in the scenarios in which you do have aim assist you usually only have like 20-30% of the overall aim assist due to the difference between mouse and analog stick movements

i could continue to extend this list but the bottom line is that most controller players think about how accurate pc pros are with a mouse on a 2080 rtx system with 240hz monitors and no inputlag when they thing about mouse and keyboard adapters
id be curious how accurate those pro players would be if their game ran constant 27-28fps on an old tft monitor @ 100 milliseconds inputlag to mimic the engine lag and a capped maximum turnspeed (and then you still dont have the aim assist issues)

using a xim is more about playing with your favourite input device with which you enjoy the game much more than gaining an advantage
Well said.
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Offline Balor1712

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Re: And they call us, cheaters...
« Reply #25 on: 08:45 AM - 02/13/19 »

i could continue to extend this list but the bottom line is that most controller players think about how accurate pc pros are with a mouse on a 2080 rtx system with 240hz monitors and no inputlag when they thing about mouse and keyboard adapters
id be curious how accurate those pro players would be if their game ran constant 27-28fps on an old tft monitor @ 100 milliseconds inputlag to mimic the engine lag and a capped maximum turnspeed (and then you still dont have the aim assist issues)

This. Controller players hear mnk adapter and their mind goes to watching Shroud on Twitch (as a popular example) and equate that to a xim player.

Offline smk_gaming

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Re: And they call us, cheaters...
« Reply #26 on: 05:25 AM - 02/16/19 »
a lot of people over here dislike the cronus as well, from how i understood it the reason is that the cronus team dumped the original creator of the product in a very shady way
that person now created a different brand with devices named Titan One and Titan Two which have a better reputation here
i could be wrong about that though, maybe look into it up if you are interested in that


either way both microsoft and sony are fine with mouse and keyboard adapters
not only do they both have their own official mouse and keyboard adapter on the market (see their websites under official input devices) but also high executives of eg microsoft have stated that they prefer to use the xim over the controller
those adapters also dont violate the ToS of both consoles (except for those that offer scripting and macroing ofc)


also one thing that most controller players get wrong is that they assume that with a mouse and keyboard adapter on a console you will have exactly the same aiming experience as on a pc, which is absolutly not the case due to several reasons
for instance you have the limitations of a console
consoles have a much higher game engine lag which delays all of your inputs
this becomes more noticeable when using a mouse than an analogstick
also there is the maximum turnspeed that you cannot exceed, in most games thats very slow even when fully maxed out (halo, destiny, gta, apex legends, anthem, the divsion, uncharted, ...)
next to that most of those games either run unsteady 30fps or unsteady 60fps, you will rarely find a game that runs as smooth as its PC counterpart

and then there is the aim assist, which is optimized for analog stick movements
mouse movements are quite different to analog stick movements (unsteady in both velocity and direction)
the aim assist algortihm only works with analog stick movements which is why you often find yourself fighting against the aim assist than seeing some benefits from it
which is understandable, i mean the game devs didnt consider mouse movments when coding the games aim assist
and in the scenarios in which you do have aim assist you usually only have like 20-30% of the overall aim assist due to the difference between mouse and analog stick movements

i could continue to extend this list but the bottom line is that most controller players think about how accurate pc pros are with a mouse on a 2080 rtx system with 240hz monitors and no inputlag when they thing about mouse and keyboard adapters
id be curious how accurate those pro players would be if their game ran constant 27-28fps on an old tft monitor @ 100 milliseconds inputlag to mimic the engine lag and a capped maximum turnspeed (and then you still dont have the aim assist issues)

using a xim is more about playing with your favourite input device with which you enjoy the game much more than gaining an advantage

Pretty much everything you have said I have stated in my video (now coming on Monday). In my own opinion at the end I do state that I don't like mnk on console but I deal with it. That is mainly because the game isn't optimised for mnk. I do also say that if native MnK was support that would be a different story. The whole Sony/Microsoft thing i do talk about in depth and use as much evidence as i could find which all points to what you said. But then game devs can confuse the situation with what they say, not all of them but some do. Mods, scripts and macros were harder to find information on and more intreptation of tos was required.