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Does the latest XIM APEX Firmware releases had been adding Input Lag?  (Read 2228 times)

Offline alanmcgregor

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All right, sorry for the click bait sound of the topic but, this is something I noticed since the gold release (May 2018).

I'm a competitive player on Battlefront 2015. My setup is Ventus Z mice, Orbweaver and XIM APEX.
On this game, there is two blasters EE-3, EE-4 which everybody uses on the tourneys. For these weapons I'm using rapidfire macros on my Ventus Z, with very tight timings. Before with my XIM4 the timings were different more loosen due 125Hz polling. BTW on this matches everybody is using some source of scripting device openly.

So anyways. I took a break from it, on May last year, recently I start to play again.

Here comes the point:
I notice that my blaster rapid-fire burst jams, gets stuck like if is not well tuned, it wasn't as fast and smooth like before. First thing I though might be the servers because game is pretty much dead and servers are very lousy.

Then I tried my Titan Two, where my rapid-fire script is the same speed. Titan Two Rapid-Fire worked like before, insane fast, clean smooth.

So I got curious, why was working with Titan Two and not directly as before. Then I realize the only change I made was updating XIM APEX firmware on every release.

I had Firmware Dic 2018, then I flash my XIM APEX back to the April 2018 Firmware with the gold XIM Manager, and there it was... rapid-fire was working exactly like before, insane fast, smooth from the mouse macros not Titan Two required.

Then I update my firmware for the latest one: (Jan 2019) with is XIM Manager Beta.

Tried again, on my mouse with its macros and again... rapid-firing wasn't working, jamming every time, same at the beginning.

  • I tried different polling rates, same results.
  • I did my test at peak hours in the same server.
  • Every time I flash the firmware, did the factory reset.

Something change on XIM APEX at the newest firmware releases?
maybe is not input lag, could be cycling or polling?.

XIM APEX [Firmware 20180402] [Manager 20180402] - OK

XIM APEX BETA [FIRMWARE 20181204]MANAGER 20181204] - lagged
XIM APEX BETA [FIRMWARE 2019011920181204]  [MANAGER 20190119] ] - lagged

Is this a bugg? - that's why I'm posting this thread. I can go back to the firmware I prefer or use the latest with my Titan Two.

Thanks for your time :)
XIM APEX + Titan Two
PS4 Pro - ASUS VG245H 24" - Sennheiser GSP 600 + MixAmp - Razer Orbweaver - Modded e-Sports Ventus R - Zowie G-SR

Offline OBsIV

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Are you using Simulate Analog Behavior?
Get the most out of your XIM APEX, read the XIM APEX Support FAQ.

Offline alanmcgregor

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Are you using Simulate Analog Behavior?

While using the Dic 2018 firmware, yes I have it on. with 75 .

However when I tried newest Jan 2019 Firmware, I didn't touch that setting, was 0, RapidFire macro was sluggish/jamming again.

Forgot to set SAB, because every time I flash APEX to factory, and I have to recreate the ST.

« Last Edit: 06:02 PM - 02/02/19 by alanmcgregor »
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Offline Emanuel

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I'm a competitive player on Battlefront 2015.(...) I'm using rapidfire macros

Stuff like this made me come less and less to fhis forum. Iīm here since XIM 1 days, 10 years ago, wich cost me a fortune on ebay. Seeing that nowadays people only care about having the best possible advantage over other players and using XIM aswell, coupled with other stuff, is silly. This isnīt any different from hacking on a PC game tbh.

I hope on next gen some actions are taken to stop this madness, I would rather go back to the controller if I have to.

I would never give support to something like this. If your rapid fire macros are not working... bad luck. Find other solutions.

Offline ThtFilthy26

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I'm a competitive player on Battlefront 2015.(...) I'm using rapidfire macros

Stuff like this made me come less and less to fhis forum. Iīm here since XIM 1 days, 10 years ago, wich cost me a fortune on ebay. Seeing that nowadays people only care about having the best possible advantage over other players and using XIM aswell, coupled with other stuff, is silly. This isnīt any different from hacking on a PC game tbh.

I hope on next gen some actions are taken to stop this madness, I would rather go back to the controller if I have to.

I would never give support to something like this. If your rapid fire macros are not working... bad luck. Find other solutions.


So you're a better person and all around honest gamer because of your gaming morals? Nobody really was curious of your personal debate against another's setup and tool implementations. If you're not someone who shares the same beliefs then that's ok as nobody needs to be convinced that your self personalized rules you set are the way to overall game.
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Offline alanmcgregor

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I'm a competitive player on Battlefront 2015.(...) I'm using rapidfire macros

Stuff like this made me come less and less to fhis forum. Iīm here since XIM 1 days, 10 years ago, wich cost me a fortune on ebay. Seeing that nowadays people only care about having the best possible advantage over other players and using XIM aswell, coupled with other stuff, is silly. This isnīt any different from hacking on a PC game tbh.

I hope on next gen some actions are taken to stop this madness, I would rather go back to the controller if I have to.

I would never give support to something like this. If your rapid fire macros are not working... bad luck. Find other solutions.

Mira Emmanuel, you might not seen the entire picture.

I play on competitive scheme vs friends and foes and we all are using openly (one of the requisites to be in the tourney, to make the skill gap as high as possible) scripts or gear (Scuffs, XIM4, XIM APEX, Hori Tac, etc) to be at the same level, you have to actually describe which devices are you using, scripts and settings.

Is not like we are in a tourney and shady aptitude using scripts that are not allowed, and not telling anyone, see?.

Now putting, rapid-fire on the same as hacking, that's is an exaggeration of your part... it only gives you rapid-fire that is it, you can be a bad player with rapid-fire, you are not looking throw walls, not one shooting people... and like I said, every player must be equip so we can play for long an maintain.

"The rapid-fire macros are not working" - is not the point, is a symptom:

That something might be affecting XIM APEX input response and should be addressed before gets worse to the point that could get XIM APEX input response not up to par to the level of quality all enjoy, affecting everyone with a regular input, see?. Macros only were a unexpected benchmark that make this pop up.

That's why I point out, I can go Titan Two or use the older firmware no problem, but: I find this... its should be happening?, is a bug?.


XIM APEX + Titan Two
PS4 Pro - ASUS VG245H 24" - Sennheiser GSP 600 + MixAmp - Razer Orbweaver - Modded e-Sports Ventus R - Zowie G-SR

Offline Emanuel

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I'm a competitive player on Battlefront 2015.(...) I'm using rapidfire macros

Stuff like this made me come less and less to fhis forum. Iīm here since XIM 1 days, 10 years ago, wich cost me a fortune on ebay. Seeing that nowadays people only care about having the best possible advantage over other players and using XIM aswell, coupled with other stuff, is silly. This isnīt any different from hacking on a PC game tbh.

I hope on next gen some actions are taken to stop this madness, I would rather go back to the controller if I have to.

I would never give support to something like this. If your rapid fire macros are not working... bad luck. Find other solutions.


So you're a better person and all around honest gamer because of your gaming morals? Nobody really was curious of your personal debate against another's setup and tool implementations. If you're not someone who shares the same beliefs then that's ok as nobody needs to be convinced that your self personalized rules you set are the way to overall game.

Is called principles and this is a forum. As long as Iīm respectful I can give my opinion. Iīm totally against people with XIM using Aim Assist or Macros of any kind. You can see a lot of posts I made about that. I just donīt come here often anymore because lately the forum is full of dudes that only want to have an edge over other users.

If you have a mouse on console, playing against 95% controller users and still need Ballistic Curves or Macros to improve either your Aim Assist or Rapid Fire etc, you are just a bad player with a mouse. Simple as that. I can give my opinion and you are free to disagree with it.

Thereīs a reason Microsoft and Sony are finding ways to block these devices on next gen. I know a lot of stuff about it but in the right time I will share it. Whant I can warranty you is that as a 10 year XIM user and as much as I love this device and as much as I respect Obsiv work so much, I will be happy when on next gen you guys will see that this kind of thing wonīt work anymore, or at least not as intended or as you wanted it to work.

And this is because of people trying to exploit stuff. Not because I have anything against XIM. I have XIm 1, 2, 3, 4, Edge and Apex. I just canīt stand people exploiting because they canīt aim with a mouse.

Offline Deazly

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I wonder how much your Xim play would increase if you turned AA on.
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Offline alanmcgregor

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That's cool I mean, why you don't open a new thread discussing that subject how much you disgust people using macros and Ballistic curves on XIM? so the people who care can participate on it.

Because is zero useful for this one, that is:

Did something change in XIM APEX firmware releases, has been adding input lag? or is something on the input response.

If using SAB is making some way less responsive my APEX I would like to know, just be aware of it. If this wasn't  expected then might need to be fix.

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Offline OBsIV

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Did something change in XIM APEX firmware releases, has been adding input lag? or is something on the input response.

If using SAB is making some way less responsive my APEX I would like to know, just be aware of it. If this wasn't  expected then might need to be fix.

Yes, SAB will intentionally add some lag because it's emulating a stick which cannot change directions instantaneously like a keyboard.
Get the most out of your XIM APEX, read the XIM APEX Support FAQ.

Offline alanmcgregor

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Did something change in XIM APEX firmware releases, has been adding input lag? or is something on the input response.

If using SAB is making some way less responsive my APEX I would like to know, just be aware of it. If this wasn't  expected then might need to be fix.

Yes, SAB will intentionally add some lag because it's emulating a stick which cannot change directions instantaneously like a keyboard.
Cool, makes sense.  :)

Even if SAB is set to 0? (OFF)
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Offline Dodge

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I'm a competitive player on Battlefront 2015.(...) I'm using rapidfire macros

Stuff like this made me come less and less to fhis forum. Iīm here since XIM 1 days, 10 years ago, wich cost me a fortune on ebay. Seeing that nowadays people only care about having the best possible advantage over other players and using XIM aswell, coupled with other stuff, is silly. This isnīt any different from hacking on a PC game tbh.

I hope on next gen some actions are taken to stop this madness, I would rather go back to the controller if I have to.

I would never give support to something like this. If your rapid fire macros are not working... bad luck. Find other solutions.


So you're a better person and all around honest gamer because of your gaming morals? Nobody really was curious of your personal debate against another's setup and tool implementations. If you're not someone who shares the same beliefs then that's ok as nobody needs to be convinced that your self personalized rules you set are the way to overall game.

Is called principles and this is a forum. As long as Iīm respectful I can give my opinion. Iīm totally against people with XIM using Aim Assist or Macros of any kind. You can see a lot of posts I made about that. I just donīt come here often anymore because lately the forum is full of dudes that only want to have an edge over other users.

If you have a mouse on console, playing against 95% controller users and still need Ballistic Curves or Macros to improve either your Aim Assist or Rapid Fire etc, you are just a bad player with a mouse. Simple as that. I can give my opinion and you are free to disagree with it.

Thereīs a reason Microsoft and Sony are finding ways to block these devices on next gen. I know a lot of stuff about it but in the right time I will share it. Whant I can warranty you is that as a 10 year XIM user and as much as I love this device and as much as I respect Obsiv work so much, I will be happy when on next gen you guys will see that this kind of thing wonīt work anymore, or at least not as intended or as you wanted it to work.

And this is because of people trying to exploit stuff. Not because I have anything against XIM. I have XIm 1, 2, 3, 4, Edge and Apex. I just canīt stand people exploiting because they canīt aim with a mouse.

Would I compete with mouse on PC against controller players and use AA there, I could understand the criticism.I am not a friend of people using mouse and Apex on PC to get a benefit with AA.
Even if the apex really offers you the best possible solution, it is unfortunately not 1: 1 like on the PC. I am not a bad player with a mouse on the PC, but a lot worse with a mouse on the console without any AA.
Now, claiming I could not aim decently with a mouse I think is daring.
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Offline alanmcgregor

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Did something change in XIM APEX firmware releases, has been adding input lag? or is something on the input response.

If using SAB is making some way less responsive my APEX I would like to know, just be aware of it. If this wasn't  expected then might need to be fix.

Yes, SAB will intentionally add some lag because it's emulating a stick which cannot change directions instantaneously like a keyboard.

OBsIV,

I did more testing. This is my results.

Test Macro:
Code: [Select]
Left Mouse Button Down 50 ms
Left Mouse Button Up 20 ms

Test 1. Using [Firmware 20180402] on [Manager 20180528]
Results: I have a very fast and smooth performance when using the macro.

Test 2. Update to [Firmware 20190119] on [Manager 20180528]
Results: Macro is jamming, burst not fluent at all, hiccups.

Test 3. [Firmware 20190119] Update [Manager 20190119] - SAB: 0
Results: Same as Test 2 macro jamming.

This was my new finding:

Test 4. [Firmware 20190119] Update [Manager 20190119] - SAB: 75
Results: macro is smooth again, not jamming very fast, same as Test 1 using [Firmware 20180402] .

So, I got curious at which point got smooth,  because 75 was a number I just throw in there.

Tried, and even SAB = 5, macro recover its speed and performance, that input response issue disappear, not jamming anymore.

SAB = 0 just not works for this tight macros.

Looks more like an input response hiccup than a input lag issue, right? anyways. I don't know if this data might be useful for you, and maybe is a peculiarity on this game.

Demo (sorry, blurry vertical):

And for the record for everyone else:
this small amount of input response change, will be completely negligible and imperceptible on an ordinary use

I'm going to stick with the Firmware 20190119 and Manager, because I liked the new features.

Once again, thanks for your Support! :)
« Last Edit: 02:32 PM - 02/04/19 by alanmcgregor »
XIM APEX + Titan Two
PS4 Pro - ASUS VG245H 24" - Sennheiser GSP 600 + MixAmp - Razer Orbweaver - Modded e-Sports Ventus R - Zowie G-SR

Offline OBsIV

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Hmmm, SAB 0 is bypassing the system completely (i.e. triggers are instant) and I've validated that. You aren't seeing that?
Get the most out of your XIM APEX, read the XIM APEX Support FAQ.

Offline alanmcgregor

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I don't know why the macro timings gets mess up when SAB is set to 0.

5 or above and it picks up the speed, as shown in the video.  ???
XIM APEX + Titan Two
PS4 Pro - ASUS VG245H 24" - Sennheiser GSP 600 + MixAmp - Razer Orbweaver - Modded e-Sports Ventus R - Zowie G-SR