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The Azeron - XIM out of the box  (Read 45534 times)

Offline Au1d Yin

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #915 on: 10:48 AM - 05/29/19 »
I don't look at it as being "logic" ... it's the way things are and I accept it for what it is . :)
You really think it's that simple to get changes made to outsourced mass production?

 
« Last Edit: 10:54 AM - 05/29/19 by Au1d Yin »

Offline tsdbhg

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #916 on: 12:13 PM - 05/29/19 »
I don't look at it as being "logic" ... it's the way things are and I accept it for what it is . :)
You really think it's that simple to get changes made to outsourced mass production?
Just because you don't view it as logic doesn't mean it isn't. Just because you view a fork as a spoon doesn't mean it is. This isn't about a point of view. It's about facts. If he doesn't want to license the product to other manufacturers for personal reasons I can understand that. It doesn't make sense to sell a product being made, but not license to other manufacturers because there are still changes being made. If it is good enough to sell and have good reviews is all that matters.

And to answer your question. I don't think it's that simple... I know it is. When a licensing contract is created, all of that is put in there. Any time there is a change, the mass producers can and do accommodate. They have the capability. If they didn't, they would lose business. You really should educate yourself before posting nonsense.

Offline Azeron

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #917 on: 12:48 PM - 05/29/19 »
At 2:11am CST I received an email and thankfully I was awake.  Azeron is available to order! Within seconds I am on the website and notice only 13 are available to order. I immediately order mine. I go to bed a few minutes later. I wake up at 6:13am CST to take a bio-break and decide to check availability... Sold out!

Waited nearly a month for a day with no specific time frame with less than a 4 hour window to purchase... This man really needs to expand manufacturing. He has no idea how much business he is missing.
I clearly understand a potential of this keypad and how it could be a business, but not all is that simple.
First, to start manufacturing them we need a lot of investment, for injection moulds (25 different plastic parts), plastic parts, electronic, assembling, packing, marketing and I don't have funds like that.
Even if I could find funds, I have zero experience in business and manufacturing, what is equivalent to a dead end.
I like all engineering stuff I can manage some small Etsy store, but manufacturing is absolutely different level. So at the moment this is a best way I can offer people to get hands on my keypad.

Offline Au1d Yin

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #918 on: 01:13 PM - 05/29/19 »
I don't look at it as being "logic" ... it's the way things are and I accept it for what it is . :)
You really think it's that simple to get changes made to outsourced mass production?
Just because you don't view it as logic doesn't mean it isn't. Just because you view a fork as a spoon doesn't mean it is. This isn't about a point of view. It's about facts. If he doesn't want to license the product to other manufacturers for personal reasons I can understand that. It doesn't make sense to sell a product being made, but not license to other manufacturers because there are still changes being made. If it is good enough to sell and have good reviews is all that matters.

And to answer your question. I don't think it's that simple... I know it is. When a licensing contract is created, all of that is put in there. Any time there is a change, the mass producers can and do accommodate. They have the capability. If they didn't, they would lose business. You really should educate yourself before posting nonsense.

Please forgive me for my stupidity .... you obviously know best how someone else should run their project ;)

Offline tsdbhg

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #919 on: 02:52 PM - 05/29/19 »
At 2:11am CST I received an email and thankfully I was awake.  Azeron is available to order! Within seconds I am on the website and notice only 13 are available to order. I immediately order mine. I go to bed a few minutes later. I wake up at 6:13am CST to take a bio-break and decide to check availability... Sold out!

Waited nearly a month for a day with no specific time frame with less than a 4 hour window to purchase... This man really needs to expand manufacturing. He has no idea how much business he is missing.
I clearly understand a potential of this keypad and how it could be a business, but not all is that simple.
First, to start manufacturing them we need a lot of investment, for injection moulds (25 different plastic parts), plastic parts, electronic, assembling, packing, marketing and I don't have funds like that.
Even if I could find funds, I have zero experience in business and manufacturing, what is equivalent to a dead end.
I like all engineering stuff I can manage some small Etsy store, but manufacturing is absolutely different level. So at the moment this is a best way I can offer people to get hands on my keypad.

This was my initial assumption. When I get my unit I will gladly give my full thoughts on it. I recommend if you haven't already to research someone who has the business sense to help you take those steps. If you don't have the funds then investors can help. Based on how it looks, what it does and all of the reviews this could be a big addition to the gaming world. 👍

Offline tsdbhg

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #920 on: 02:55 PM - 05/29/19 »
I don't look at it as being "logic" ... it's the way things are and I accept it for what it is . :)
You really think it's that simple to get changes made to outsourced mass production?
Just because you don't view it as logic doesn't mean it isn't. Just because you view a fork as a spoon doesn't mean it is. This isn't about a point of view. It's about facts. If he doesn't want to license the product to other manufacturers for personal reasons I can understand that. It doesn't make sense to sell a product being made, but not license to other manufacturers because there are still changes being made. If it is good enough to sell and have good reviews is all that matters.

And to answer your question. I don't think it's that simple... I know it is. When a licensing contract is created, all of that is put in there. Any time there is a change, the mass producers can and do accommodate. They have the capability. If they didn't, they would lose business. You really should educate yourself before posting nonsense.

Please forgive me for my stupidity .... you obviously know best how someone else should run their project ;)

I never said you were stupid. Ignorant is a better word. Stupidity is knowing something isn't right, but do it anyway. Ignorance is the lack of knowledge. There are many things I am ignorant about, but I don't act like I know what I'm talking about when I don't. Based on the owner reply above, my assumptions we're correct. It has nothing to do with the owner wanting to make changes to the product or keep it a small business. He just needs the right connections.
« Last Edit: 03:05 PM - 05/29/19 by tsdbhg »

Online antithesis

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #921 on: 05:27 PM - 05/29/19 »
Imants is essentially running a hobby business. Consider the location and the lack of business opportunities therein. Give the man time to work out what he wants to do and how he wants to do it.

Kickstarter or Indiegogo would likely be preferable to outsourcing or partnering so Imants retains control over his product and his own destiny. If you want a perfect example of how outside funding and partnering can all go wrong, talk to J2Kbr at ConsoleTuner about how CronusMAX dicked him over. That's how Titan One was born.

On the flipside, we have the perfect example of how to retain control over your product and make it successful right here with OBsIV. It's already been suggested that Imants should talk to OBsIV to get some advice on how to take Azeron to the next level.

In the meantime, Azeron customers understand what they're buying and don't hold it to the same manufacturing standards as a commercial product. Likewise, we also know Azeron is very reasonably priced for what we get which is a hand-crafted instrument that would not be easily mass-produced.

Please don't tell Imants what he needs to fulfill your own wants, let him choose his own path. By all means we should encourage him to make a go of it, but also consider he's meeting the needs of a small gaming niche that may not have mass-market appear. A Kickstarter campaign is probably the best way to test the market without committing his life savings, borrowing heavily or mortgaging his house on the project.

Long story short - if you want an Azeron, understand that it's a hobby project from a man with limited resources and to join the queue.

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Offline tsdbhg

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #922 on: 08:38 PM - 05/29/19 »
if you want an Azeron, understand that it's a hobby project from a man with limited resources and to join the queue.

There is no queue to purchase. He will only send a PM when it is available for purchase.
« Last Edit: 08:43 PM - 05/29/19 by tsdbhg »

Offline Cardain

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #923 on: 08:02 AM - 05/30/19 »
I think not everything needs to be focused on making the most business as possible. As long as Imants is happy, it really doesn't matter how large he scales it because its his craft. It has a romantic ring to it an I kind of like this is a hand crafted, custom product of which there are not many of. The interactions here, per message and on the facebook page have a more personal nature which I appreciate.

The other thing I would be personally worried about mass production is that THE main attraction for me about the Azeron is that he can easily create left and right handed versions. In mass production where you have to create expensive molds, it would make little business sense to make molds for a left handed audience since its such a small percentage of the population and you would not get your investment back, like when Razer did a run of the naga for left handed people and ran a loss on that line.

Offline Au1d Yin

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #924 on: 08:32 AM - 05/30/19 »
I think not everything needs to be focused on making the most business as possible. As long as Imants is happy, it really doesn't matter how large he scales it because its his craft. It has a romantic ring to it an I kind of like this is a hand crafted, custom product of which there are not many of. The interactions here, per message and on the facebook page have a more personal nature which I appreciate.

The other thing I would be personally worried about mass production is that THE main attraction for me about the Azeron is that he can easily create left and right handed versions. In mass production where you have to create expensive molds, it would make little business sense to make molds for a left handed audience since its such a small percentage of the population and you would not get your investment back, like when Razer did a run of the naga for left handed people and ran a loss on that line.

You totally get what this is all about  :)
As for customer service, I remember sending an email on a Saturday night asking a question about my Azeron and expecting a reply about Monday or so ... I got an answer 10 minutes later around 10pm on a Saturday night.


Online antithesis

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #925 on: 04:10 PM - 05/30/19 »
I think not everything needs to be focused on making the most business as possible. As long as Imants is happy, it really doesn't matter how large he scales it because its his craft. It has a romantic ring to it an I kind of like this is a hand crafted, custom product of which there are not many of. The interactions here, per message and on the facebook page have a more personal nature which I appreciate.

The other thing I would be personally worried about mass production is that THE main attraction for me about the Azeron is that he can easily create left and right handed versions. In mass production where you have to create expensive molds, it would make little business sense to make molds for a left handed audience since its such a small percentage of the population and you would not get your investment back, like when Razer did a run of the naga for left handed people and ran a loss on that line.
Bingo. In the end, as long as Imants is happy and doing what he loves, Azeron will be a success. If that means waiting, then it means waiting. I happily waited twice because there is nothing else like Azeron out there, especially for left-handers.

As a left-hander, I have never had access to a product like this. So few manufacturers invest in left-handed devices because of the expense. The flipside to that is whoever makes a good left-handed device can corner 10-12% of the market rather than fighting tooth and nail for right-handed scraps.

Naga failed because it sucked (I own one, used it twice). I'm 100% ok with ambidextrous devices, e.g all Logitech needs to do is slot buttons on both sides of G102, G203, G Pro, G305 etc and I'm a pig in poo. Buttons on both sides doesn't harm righties (off-side buttons are perfect for DPI up / down) and it opens up the lefty market.
« Last Edit: 04:17 PM - 05/30/19 by antithesis »

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Offline Cardain

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #926 on: 01:46 PM - 05/31/19 »
Oh I got the Logitech G903 ambidextrous with the wireless charging mouse pad. You can just remove the buttons on one side, its great. I use that for PC though. For XIM I use an older Razer Ouroboros. Sometimes I see some of those fancy flagship mice for right handed people and really wish I could give those a spin too though like the new Logitech G502.

Online antithesis

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #927 on: 02:16 PM - 05/31/19 »
G900 range is too big for my grip (I hate palm) and I used an Ouroboros for years (too wide, terrible sensor, get rid of it!).

I swapped to a G303 and it was night and day compared to the Ouro. The G303 died, so I've since swapped to a G Pro and a G305. They would be perfect if only they had right-side buttons :shakefist: I own around 20 lefty and ambi mice and none of them come close to the small Logitechs.

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Offline tsdbhg

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #928 on: 08:18 PM - 05/31/19 »
G900 range is too big for my grip (I hate palm) and I used an Ouroboros for years (too wide, terrible sensor, get rid of it!).

I swapped to a G303 and it was night and day compared to the Ouro. The G303 died, so I've since swapped to a G Pro and a G305. They would be perfect if only they had right-side buttons :shakefist: I own around 20 lefty and ambi mice and none of them come close to the small Logitechs.

The G Pro does have right and left side buttons that can be swapped for cover plates.
« Last Edit: 11:13 PM - 05/31/19 by tsdbhg »

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #929 on: 03:31 AM - 06/01/19 »
That'll be the G Pro Wireless. I use the wired G Pro. I don't want the wireless version, it's missing the button behind the wheel and it's a touch too long. It's also very expensive!

Official Australian distributor for XIM APEX, Titan One & Titan Two at Mod Squad
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