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The Azeron - XIM out of the box  (Read 46520 times)

Offline roads

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #315 on: 08:49 AM - 12/06/18 »
Flash W11ces code might be optimized for stick movement. The latest code in this thread.
Crusade atm: XIM Mouse that is stable 1000hz at 12000 or higher no delays by smoothing. XIM APEX is ridiculous without a XIM Mouse.

Offline Au1d Yin

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #316 on: 09:18 AM - 12/06/18 »
Nice ... I'll definitely be getting the compact version when it becomes available  ;D
Agree about the stick .. it's not the best, a better quality stick with easier motion movement would make a big difference to The Azeron.
You're building this by hand to order Imants, and you are charging a VERY reasonable price for The Azeron ... it's a great product and shaving a few euros off the price for a lesser quality stick is not needed in my opinion.
Don't sell yourself short .... It is a brilliant concept and design  8)
« Last Edit: 10:48 AM - 12/06/18 by Au1d Yin »

Offline Azeron

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #317 on: 01:27 PM - 12/06/18 »
When will the Compact version be available? Can custom parts be ordered to give the finger sliders more range-of-motion, thicker buttons and possibly a better quality / less resistant thumbstick?

It'd also be great if the thumbstick wasn't as stiff. That seems to be mechanical as there's a more obvious catching point and greater resistance when moving the stick around compared to Sony / MS controllers.

I planning to add it in store as soon as I get parts I still waiting for. Looks like I need to make these sliders for towers a longer and shorter version available for order separately if needed, as some customers would like to have them longer others shorter.
Me as PC player never had any problems with thumbstick, as its just did emulate WASD keys, so I could not feel any problems, but  in Console gaming it is a different story, there You can use full potential of analog stick and easy feel the difference if its good or not. And now, when I have so big interest from console gaming community, got a feedback's,  I definitely will find a better analog stick, I already did ordered 6 different analog sticks, to find better one I can use. There is some problems, as I cant use analog sticks from PS3, PS4 and Xbox One as they are smaller size and there is not breakout boards for them.

Offline roads

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #318 on: 01:31 PM - 12/06/18 »
Why do you need break out board at all? In N52te and Orbweaver mods we just connected the pins directly. Thumbhouse should hold the stick firmly without breakout board no?
Crusade atm: XIM Mouse that is stable 1000hz at 12000 or higher no delays by smoothing. XIM APEX is ridiculous without a XIM Mouse.

Offline OBsIV

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #319 on: 01:43 PM - 12/06/18 »
How much does this thing cost? Does anyone know?

I could 3d print different bodies if the creator tossed me some STLs
It cost 100 Euro + shipping
I did work for many years on this project, and I'm not really up to sharing files now, after all hours I did put in it.

G502Killer's intentions were good of course, but, if you have any aspirations to make this into a retail product, then, you shouldn't share any sources whatsoever unless the people are sharing with are under an NDA contract and you have some prior knowledge about them.
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Offline roads

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #320 on: 02:04 PM - 12/06/18 »
You cant protect the Azeron. I could go to a shop here and have all parts scanned for a couple of hundred Euros. In fact Imants doesnít have to protect it. An analogue device is completely uninteresting to PC industry. Its because games 99% support mouse and WASD OR the controller but not both analog walking and mouse. I tried it almost never works. So Razer and the others will make a D-pads which are useless.
I think its clever to have a price that simply is making the print and build uninteresting.
I still think you should do it Obs and do arangements with Imants. This thing is THE XIM device we all dreamt about. Well me and W11ce LOL

Proof is, there is not a single analoge keypad out there. G18 has just been taken from market.
« Last Edit: 02:14 PM - 12/06/18 by roads »
Crusade atm: XIM Mouse that is stable 1000hz at 12000 or higher no delays by smoothing. XIM APEX is ridiculous without a XIM Mouse.

Offline antithesis

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #321 on: 04:11 PM - 12/06/18 »
I agree that Imants should protect his product. Sharing files may be for noble reasons, but this is years of his work. We should be happy to offer feedback and to find a product that slots really well into our niche.

As a left-hander, analog gamepads have never been a viable option for me before. Nav is ambidextrous, but no mice exist to pair with a Nav to cover all buttons, aside from the Lefty Naga, which isn't a good mouse. I found Nav to be uncomfortable and clumsy to use, so I'm surprised that I adapted to analog movement on Azeron within a couple of hours.

Thanks for taking the feedback on-board Imants. If you can offer longer ranges on the finger sliders and an improved thumbstick, you're going to open up Azeron to a broader spectrum of ages, abilities and devices.

An adjustable wrist / palm rest would also be a great option, but that's a harder puzzle to solve mechanically and aesthetically (shorter finger sliders would solve some of that). The first thing I noticed when unboxing Azeron were the lines and smooth matte finish on the wrist rest and it'd be a shame to ruin that. The metal base, cable sleeves, colour-matched LEDs and soft-touch switches also lend an air of quality to Azeron  :D

In a perfect world I'd like the palm rest shallower, but I can get around that by either sitting up straighter, sliding my palm further forward, or dialling up the height of my arm rest. Again, it's only a matter of 10mm or so between comfortable and fitting like a glove. It's the same for mice - 115mm is perfect for my fingertip grip, 125mm is too big.
« Last Edit: 04:29 PM - 12/06/18 by antithesis »

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XIM Apex demos on Twitch and YouTube. Follow Twitter for live stream alerts

Offline roads

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #322 on: 10:09 PM - 12/06/18 »
He should and will not share his files as he said. Protecting the design of the device would cost about 30K for for Europe and over a 100K worldwide and still the Chinese could just copy it. To earn that money fast he would need to make molds and have it done in China, another 50K maybe. Now look at Obsiv, why do you think is he assembling and doing the Apex PCB in the US? Chinese use your molds while you don't need them or copy them.  Look at the market. There is no demand for such a device. As I said mouse and analog stick at once on PC - not possible only 8 way which is ugly. On Consoles, people use controllers, no demand for an Azeron. Its really only us Ximmers who really need it, a niche. Imants did not even know the XIM before I found him. I didn’t even found him but the other guy did not drag him into here. The brain of the device was on this site by W11ce for years, it was running in the N52te mod it just has a different pinout that everyone can find out. I now even run W11ces bare XIM code as I dont need the Bells and whistles of the Azeron software and I fear it makes the Azeron slower.  How could you protect the code? You can not.
His only chance is to keep the device cheap so its not worth for others to build it. If it was 300 Euro I would start building it myself.  His other chance is that a firm like Razer may not copy it, as  Imants could give out his files for printing any time and no one would buy the retail.
The only logical way would be to partner with someone who wants to sell the device. The only one that makes sense is Obsiv but he is not interested. I mean he is interested in the device but he does not want to market it. Also I think Imants has too much fun designing and assembling this baby.

For changes, yes he listens! At first he did not take my advice from medical /anatomical view but he does try, prototype and if its better he adopts it. So there will be ergonomic changes to the device to make it even more comfy to use. Right now you don't even feel its necessary but after the changes it will be a big difference. As I understand it will be possible to upgrade Azerons out there. Not sure Imants will tell us I guess.
Its evolving, its great, buy two of them, put one on the shelf, if you are a lefty buy three, it may be gone one day like the N52te and the G13. Support Imants by buying the upgrades if he gets some out. His prices are great.
Crusade atm: XIM Mouse that is stable 1000hz at 12000 or higher no delays by smoothing. XIM APEX is ridiculous without a XIM Mouse.

Offline antithesis

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #323 on: 10:40 PM - 12/06/18 »
It doesnít matter how Imants got here, he is here, heís generating some sales and heís accepting feedback. That doesnít give us any right to access his files, which is absolutely fair.

As long as he can demonstrate copyright of the Azeron and keeps his IP to himself, thatís all the protection needed at this stage. Itís a niche product and I donít see a big enough market for IP thieves to come sniffing.

Hopefully Imants sells enough to warrant patent protection, thatís not a bad problem to have :) If console games continue to prod for digital input, Azeron should be a great solution to that problem.

Official Australian distributor for XIM APEX, Titan One & Titan Two at Mod Squad
XIM Apex demos on Twitch and YouTube. Follow Twitter for live stream alerts

Offline roads

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #324 on: 10:49 PM - 12/06/18 »
Quote
It doesnít matter how Imants got here, he is here,

Absolutely, just wanted to point out that he didnít know this here is his niche.

Quote
Hopefully Imants sells enough to warrant patent protection

Patent what? an analoge joystick used by the thumb or switches that are pressed by fingertips? I wrote up there that it would cost a 130K to protect it. But thatís not true, there is nothing to protect. Only thing is the name of the device which could be changed to "switches with a stick" any time.

So lets focus on ideas to make the Azeron even better.
Crusade atm: XIM Mouse that is stable 1000hz at 12000 or higher no delays by smoothing. XIM APEX is ridiculous without a XIM Mouse.

Offline antithesis

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #325 on: 10:54 PM - 12/06/18 »
So lets focus on ideas to make the Azeron even better.
Agreed. The only way to improve a product is to get it into peopleís hands. Imants has found a willing and able testbed in Xim users :)

Official Australian distributor for XIM APEX, Titan One & Titan Two at Mod Squad
XIM Apex demos on Twitch and YouTube. Follow Twitter for live stream alerts

Offline roads

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #326 on: 10:55 PM - 12/06/18 »
Be sure he knows now.
Crusade atm: XIM Mouse that is stable 1000hz at 12000 or higher no delays by smoothing. XIM APEX is ridiculous without a XIM Mouse.

Offline roads

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #327 on: 10:48 PM - 12/07/18 »
Here is the 10mm I, wait for it, printed myself! I am very proud of this being my second print and not the first I shredded the printing surface by forgetting to level the plate after moving the printer. Already ordered an autoleveling device.

10mm looks about right for me. 12 was OK but a bit too narrow, even got warm in there lol. Big fingers I guess could go down to 8mm but not less imho.

Crusade atm: XIM Mouse that is stable 1000hz at 12000 or higher no delays by smoothing. XIM APEX is ridiculous without a XIM Mouse.

Offline G502Killer

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #328 on: 03:38 AM - 12/08/18 »
For the record I 100% understand why you would want to keep STL files to yourself. As someone who has attempted to design a project like this - and failed until deciding to focus on school until the end of the semester - I know how much work it is and how much of the design value is in those files.
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Offline Au1d Yin

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Re: The Azeron - XIM out of the box
« Reply #329 on: 06:44 AM - 12/08/18 »
Here is the 10mm I, wait for it, printed myself! I am very proud of this being my second print and not the first I shredded the printing surface by forgetting to level the plate after moving the printer. Already ordered an autoleveling device.

10mm looks about right for me. 12 was OK but a bit too narrow, even got warm in there lol. Big fingers I guess could go down to 8mm but not less imho.




Imants ... I hope you are not listening to this lol.

That would destroy my ability to use The Azeron, it might suit you roads but everyones hand is not the same as yours.
The switches on the Azeron are super sensitive and if you move a finger to press a switch and another finger twitches ... it will trigger a wrong switch.