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“Xim is cheating” “Xim users should be banned” etc  (Read 2889 times)

Offline ƑȒƐƐĿǾ

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Honestly it’s just pathetic how butthurt people get over xim. All the people who are “celebrating” because they think Epic Games banned xim users (which they didn’t) XIM has already circumvented their attempt at blocking it in fortnight. Even if they did “ban” XIM users do these people honestly think anything would change? Because I can tell you no absolutely nothing would change, if you suck @ the game it’s because you are bad not because of XIM. People really just need to accept that they are bad and stop blaming XIM for their own lack of skill at video games. End of rant  :)
« Last Edit: 04:19 AM - 01/12/19 by ƑȒƐƐĿǾ »

Offline antithesis

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My response is always the same - is a steering wheel in a racing game cheating? How about a flight controller in a sim? Or an arcade stick in a fighting game? A plastic guitar in a music game?

All of those genres can be controlled using a stock-standard console gamepad. No-one complains about the clear advantage each of these devices offers in those games, so why is m/kb any different?

Xim is simply a better tool for the job. Everyone has the ability to buy and use an m/kb adapter, including (poor) licensed options. If you want to be the best, use the best. The same reasoning applies to internet connection, screen, headphones, microphones etc.

There are advantages to be had everywhere in life - why are we forced to cater to the lowest common denominator in console shooters?
Official Australian distributor for XIM Apex, Titan One & Titan Two at Mod Squad

Offline The Tank

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My biggest fear is, now that Xim is detectable, does it mean that we are going to be able to be banned in the future for using it?

Offline antithesis

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My biggest fear is, now that Xim is detectable, does it mean that we are going to be able to be banned in the future for using it?
Xim is not detectable. It enumerates as the controller connected to it and is detected as such by the console. That's why the controller always needs to be wired to a Xim.

Digital input from a keyboard looks different from analog input from a controller. That's what Epic was detecting and it was most likely to remove their own native m/kb players from console lobbies. Xim, and all other m/kb devices, including licenced Hori Tac Pro adapters, were simply caught up in Fortnite's mess.

Xim4 and Apex already have countermeasures for input detection heuristics, but have never had the opportunity to deploy them. Both Xim4 and Apex are working in Fortnite again and the input looks pretty indistinguishable
from a controller.

If Epic (or other devs) get more aggressive in their detection algorithms, they run the very real risk of blocking controller users in the process.

Sony and MS are both ok with Xims because they serve as accessibility devices for the 15% of their market that are disabled gamers. That's a huge market segment you really don't want to be pissing off. The second Fortnite prevents a 10 year old with cerebral palsy from playing his favourite game by banning him for using a kb is the same second Epic has a PR nightmare and a class-action lawsuit on their hands.

Not to mention Epic is blocking an official Sony licenced controller and you can bet that Hori and Sony will have something to say about Fortnite.
« Last Edit: 05:11 AM - 10/13/18 by antithesis »
Official Australian distributor for XIM Apex, Titan One & Titan Two at Mod Squad

Offline JDM

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My biggest fear is, now that Xim is detectable, does it mean that we are going to be able to be banned in the future for using it?

XIM IS NOT DETECTABLE

| Apex ~ Zowie FK2 ~ Azeron Compact ~ G440 ~ Astro A40 TR ~ PS4 |

Offline marvelouslie

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The amount of people salty over XIM users is actually quite funny, and at the same time, kind of sad. I mean, should we start advocating for the banning of Racing Wheels? Arcade Sticks? Those two things give a definite advantage over controller users, yet, I don't see people advocating for those things being banned.

Offline ƑȒƐƐĿǾ

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My biggest fear is, now that Xim is detectable, does it mean that we are going to be able to be banned in the future for using it?
Of course not haha no need to worry. XIM is not against the Sony PlayStation terms of service and I assume it’s not against the Xbox terms of service. Also they probably wouldn’t even want to ban us because then they’d lose our $60 yearly PS Plus subscriptions/Xbox gold subscriptions. And epic would lose money if they started banning XIM users, I actually dont even know if they’re allowed to ban XIM users because that should be up to Sony/Microsoft not epic
« Last Edit: 02:15 PM - 10/13/18 by ƑȒƐƐĿǾ »

Offline ƑȒƐƐĿǾ

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The amount of people salty over XIM users is actually quite funny, and at the same time, kind of sad.
Yeah it’s just tragic how much they care about XIM, i think they actually care about XIM more than actual XIM users lmao. Whenever i go on video game forums, overwatch for example all the console players get extremely triggered any time the words “mouse and keyboard” or “XIM” are brought up. They start talking about how they “report” anyone that they suspect is using mouse and keyboard/xim even if they have zero proof the player is a mouse and keyboarder/ximmer. What a joke like get a life would ya lol
« Last Edit: 02:16 PM - 10/13/18 by ƑȒƐƐĿǾ »

Offline TehSubXero

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I don't agree with the narrative that emulated mouse has a higher skill ceiling than controller.  I will concede that native mouse most certainly does, and that the emulated mouse may very well have an inherently heightened skill floor.  I've won championships on PGL in UT, played in CAL-M on Source, reached globe on cs:go and yet I personally know controller players that are better than me at every console shooter you can imagine.  Riddle me that salty reddit nerds. 

The underlying issue is that 99 percent of the player base thinks they're top 1 percent players and uh, yea that's not really how this thing works.  It's not your internet, it's not your teammates, it's not that guy that's "only owning you because he has mnk" who is almost always holding a controller; it's you.

Offline Phil Ashio

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Just read an article on windows central about how Epic is targeting Xim for removal. It reads like someone has a serious vendetta against Xim and some of the responses are incredibly uninformed and salty.

Offline sean1

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Re: “Xim is cheating” “Xim users should be banned” etc
« Reply #10 on: 10:49 PM - 10/13/18 »
My biggest fear is, now that Xim is detectable, does it mean that we are going to be able to be banned in the future for using it?
Xim is not detectable. It enumerates as the controller connected to it and is detected as such by the console. That's why the controller always needs to be wired to a Xim.

Digital input from a keyboard looks different from analog input from a controller. That's what Epic was detecting and it was most likely to remove their own native m/kb players from console lobbies. Xim, and all other m/kb devices, including licenced Hori Tac Pro adapters, were simply caught up in Fortnite's mess.

Xim4 and Apex already have countermeasures for input detection heuristics, but have never had the opportunity to deploy them. Both Xim4 and Apex are working in Fortnite again and the input looks pretty indistinguishable
from a controller.

If Epic (or other devs) get more aggressive in their detection algorithms, they run the very real risk of blocking controller users in the process.

Sony and MS are both ok with Xims because they serve as accessibility devices for the 15% of their market that are disabled gamers. That's a huge market segment you really don't want to be pissing off. The second Fortnite prevents a 10 year old with cerebral palsy from playing his favourite game by banning him for using a kb is the same second Epic has a PR nightmare and a class-action lawsuit on their hands.

Not to mention Epic is blocking an official Sony licenced controller and you can bet that Hori and Sony will have something to say about Fortnite.

The bit you mentioned about disabled gamer's is why I got my xim.
I was born with a heart condition, and because of how fast it beats it can affect my hand control and sometimes its almost impossible for me to accurately use a controller, I still struggle with mouse but it's far less. Without xim I may as well give up online gaming

Offline IHeardItToo

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Re: “Xim is cheating” “Xim users should be banned” etc
« Reply #11 on: 11:22 PM - 10/13/18 »
I've done some testing on both my xbox and ps4. It seems if you use a playstation nav controller in place of a keyboard, you will not be detected and banned.

The update seem to look for movement unnatural to a joystick. Mouse use still goes undetected.

Offline antithesis

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Re: “Xim is cheating” “Xim users should be banned” etc
« Reply #12 on: 12:11 AM - 10/14/18 »
The bit you mentioned about disabled gamer's is why I got my xim.
I was born with a heart condition, and because of how fast it beats it can affect my hand control and sometimes its almost impossible for me to accurately use a controller, I still struggle with mouse but it's far less. Without xim I may as well give up online gaming
There are many Xim gamers with a disability who couldn't play console games without one. The percentage of disabled gamers is higher than the percentage of left-handers.

The perception that we're cheating by using a mouse on console is false, it's simply easier for those who either can't use a controller or don't like using one to aim with a mouse. As TehSubXero stated, there are plenty of padders out there who eat Ximmers for breakfast. However, I'm significantly better with a mouse in my hand than a controller, so for me, a Xim is easily the best tool for the job.

I'm not out to pubstomp controller nubs, I just want to play games with my preferred controls. It's the same reason I own a steering wheel, arcade stick, flight controller and plastic guitar & drums - cheating isn't remotely a factor, it's comfort and immersion I want by purchasing alternative controllers. It's my money to blow and if I want to spend it on arguably better controllers, that's my choice. That doesn't prevent anyone else from doing the same.

The irony with the current Fortnite situation is I wouldn't be a console gamer if it wasn't for Epic Games. I bought a PS3 back in 2007 because Unreal Tournament III offered native m/kb and I loved UT on PC. Unfortunately, the mouse on PS3 handled like a battleship, which led me down the long path to finding Xim3. So thanks Epic, I wouldn't own a Xim if it wasn't for you!
Official Australian distributor for XIM Apex, Titan One & Titan Two at Mod Squad

Offline ƑȒƐƐĿǾ

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Re: “Xim is cheating” “Xim users should be banned” etc
« Reply #13 on: 03:15 AM - 10/14/18 »
I don't agree with the narrative that emulated mouse has a higher skill ceiling than controller.
it does simply because with the right settings (DPI xim sens etc) you have the potential to be more accurate with xim than a controller. I’m not saying there aren’t good controller players, because there certainly are people who are quite skilled with the controller. There are controller players who are still better than XIM users, take my friend for example. He uses a controller and I use XIM but he’s way better than me.

The thing that I disagree with is the idea that XIM automatically turns you into a leet skillz Pro MLG God which I’m afraid just isn’t the case. You still have to be skilled to take advantage of XIM. I’m actually a good example of that, i use xim but I’m still complete dog $#!t at video games. I just use it because I prefer mouse and keyboard for FPS games and I don’t have enough money to build a good gaming PC.
« Last Edit: 03:24 AM - 10/14/18 by ƑȒƐƐĿǾ »

Offline mindworm22

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Re: “Xim is cheating” “Xim users should be banned” etc
« Reply #14 on: 01:45 PM - 10/14/18 »
Ummm, to my knowledge XIM has always piggybacked / emulated the controller  and is undetectable.

What made the other poster think “now it is”?


"You beat that horse to a bloody pulp in that circle-jerk of a thread .... and then poured the remains in a blender, pureed them, and gargled the leftovers. How you're not sick of it is beyond me." --- RookCheck