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Should I get the XIM APEX if I just recently bought the XIM4?  (Read 5449 times)

Offline proist

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I'm just wondering if the difference is worth it.

Offline antithesis

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Honestly, I think it is worth it, but you'll still get by just fine with a Xim4.

The biggest difference is the 1ms, 2ms, 4ms and 8ms polling on the Apex.

Xim4 polls at 8ms, which is fine for XB1, but PS4 polls at 4ms. So whilst Xim4 is relatively smooth, having the Apex poll at the native rate (or higher) on PS4 and / or at native polling for the mouse just adds this buttery sheen to the whole experience.

Smoothing is another toy that's been added to the arsenal. It was added to appease the SA build fans and functions similarly to clean up movement along all vectors. Smoothing has a scale of 1-20 and I've run it at 10 in all games. I can't even recall if I can tell the difference when it's running or not, it's just second-nature to bang it on 10 and fire away.

Finally, curves are largely a thing of the past on Apex. As I mentioned previously, RML, who's probably the elite curve producer on these forums, hasn't felt the need to run them on Apex. He typically uses curves to counter aim-assist, but the cut-through on the Apex is sublime, assuming you tweak sensitivity to strike the right balance with stickiness. I'm sure RML will have more to say on that in due time.

There will still be specific use cases where a curve is useful, like a Sprint config in Destiny 2 (I don't use one) or maybe Widow in Overwatch, but for the most part, it's just plug-and-play, point-and-shoot. Ballistics Curves are still there on Apex if we want them and they've been beefed up for improved granularity. For vehicles, I personally use DPI up/down on my mouse rather than build sub-configs on the Xim, but that's another potential use for curves on Apex.

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Offline st0ne

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Honestly, I think it is worth it, but you'll still get by just fine with a Xim4.

The biggest difference is the 1ms, 2ms, 4ms and 8ms polling on the Apex.

Xim4 polls at 8ms, which is fine for XB1, but PS4 polls at 4ms. So whilst Xim4 is relatively smooth, having the Apex poll at the native rate (or higher) on PS4 and / or at native polling for the mouse just adds this buttery sheen to the whole experience.

Smoothing is another toy that's been added to the arsenal. It was added to appease the SA build fans and functions similarly to clean up movement along all vectors. Smoothing has a scale of 1-20 and I've run it at 10 in all games. I can't even recall if I can tell the difference when it's running or not, it's just second-nature to bang it on 10 and fire away.

Finally, curves are largely a thing of the past on Apex. As I mentioned previously, RML, who's probably the elite curve producer on these forums, hasn't felt the need to run them on Apex. He typically uses curves to counter aim-assist, but the cut-through on the Apex is sublime, assuming you tweak sensitivity to strike the right balance with stickiness. I'm sure RML will have more to say on that in due time.

There will still be specific use cases where a curve is useful, like a Sprint config in Destiny 2 (I don't use one) or maybe Widow in Overwatch, but for the most part, it's just plug-and-play, point-and-shoot. Ballistics Curves are still there on Apex if we want them and they've been beefed up for improved granularity. For vehicles, I personally use DPI up/down on my mouse rather than build sub-configs on the Xim, but that's another potential use for curves on Apex.

I'm sold. I've been using XIM4 as mostly a plug and play setup (only editing the buttons) and feel im not maximising efficiency.

Offline Tyler2018

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Honestly, I think it is worth it, but you'll still get by just fine with a Xim4.

The biggest difference is the 1ms, 2ms, 4ms and 8ms polling on the Apex.

Xim4 polls at 8ms, which is fine for XB1, but PS4 polls at 4ms. So whilst Xim4 is relatively smooth, having the Apex poll at the native rate (or higher) on PS4 and / or at native polling for the mouse just adds this buttery sheen to the whole experience.

Smoothing is another toy that's been added to the arsenal. It was added to appease the SA build fans and functions similarly to clean up movement along all vectors. Smoothing has a scale of 1-20 and I've run it at 10 in all games. I can't even recall if I can tell the difference when it's running or not, it's just second-nature to bang it on 10 and fire away.

Finally, curves are largely a thing of the past on Apex. As I mentioned previously, RML, who's probably the elite curve producer on these forums, hasn't felt the need to run them on Apex. He typically uses curves to counter aim-assist, but the cut-through on the Apex is sublime, assuming you tweak sensitivity to strike the right balance with stickiness. I'm sure RML will have more to say on that in due time.

There will still be specific use cases where a curve is useful, like a Sprint config in Destiny 2 (I don't use one) or maybe Widow in Overwatch, but for the most part, it's just plug-and-play, point-and-shoot. Ballistics Curves are still there on Apex if we want them and they've been beefed up for improved granularity. For vehicles, I personally use DPI up/down on my mouse rather than build sub-configs on the Xim, but that's another potential use for curves on Apex.
How’s the aim assist on really low sensitivity. For example. I use 1000 dpi. 50 hip. 25 ads. On black ops 3. Do i still need a curve?  If not I definitely buy it

Offline singlecoilpickup

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XIM provides better translation at higher mouse dpi. You should turn your mouse up to at least 3200 dpi and then turn down the sensitivity in the XIM in order to get the look speed you want.
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Offline RML

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High sens is the best cure for AA. The problem I always had with XIM4 was that in order to combat AA "to my liking" without curves, I had to turn sens up so high that my accuracy suffered. So I created velocity curves to compensate and then lowered my overall sens.

The really cool thing about APEX, I still keep my sens around my usual comfort zone that I used with XIM4. Now though, instead of needing a velocity curve to counter AA, it's countered by a combination of the higher polling rate (higher responsive rate) and "Mostly" the new Smoothing feature. The really cool thing about smoothing is it doesn't feel like it messes with Linear movement. Unlike using curves, your movement still feels 1:1 with Smoothing added. Yet AA feels much more manageable then it does on XIM4.

AA has always been my biggest concern with XIM products. APEX handles this better then any of it's predecessors. So for me personally, it's a dream come true. Nothings perfect, but it's definitely an improvement.

Offline DigitallyDivine

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Smoothing, I love it when you guys talk dirty!

Offline antithesis

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How?s the aim assist on really low sensitivity. For example. I use 1000 dpi. 50 hip. 25 ads. On black ops 3. Do i still need a curve?  If not I definitely buy it

Xim Apex is probably unusable at 1000 DPI, at least if you want 1000Hz or 500Hz Apex polling. It'll probably still work fine at 250Hz, but your sensitivity values will likely be 300+.

Xim's sensitivity has a hard cap at 500. At 3000 DPI and Apex at 1000Hz, I'm pushing 400 HIP sens at mid sensitivity. At 1000 DPI, you'll hit 500, still have a really low sensitivity and it may not be playable.

The reason the sens values are so high is we need to recalculate them depending on the Apex polling rate, e.g 50 @ 125Hz is 100 @ 250Hz, 200 @ 500Hz and 400 @ 1000Hz.

Nor should you use 1000 DPI when your sensor is capable of more as the more DPI you can throw at a Xim, the more accurate the tracking will be. High DPI is only ever a problem if your mouse surface is a poor match, i.e a hardpad is better than cloth at high DPI.

Bottom line - 3000 DPI is pretty much the bare minimum recommendation for Apex @ 1000Hz.

3000-ish DPI is also the recommend value for PC gaming. Check out Rocket Jump Ninja's "Great Sensor Debate" videos on the Tube of You.
« Last Edit: 08:01 PM - 01/10/18 by antithesis »

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Offline colb

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3000-ish DPI is also the recommend value for PC gaming. Check out Rocket Jump Ninja's "Great Sensor Debate" videos on the Tube of You.

Agree with everything but this, haha. Real pros don't exceed 800 on PC :P

Offline antithesis

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Agree with everything but this, haha. Real pros don't exceed 800 on PC :P
They also probably don't test at higher DPI values, having the perception that 800 is the way to go simply because that's what everyone else does.

My suggestion is simply to watch the videos and draw your own conclusion.

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Offline singlecoilpickup

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On PC if you play with a relatively large 360 distance, you're going to have a really hard time getting your sensitivity right in a lot of games. There are some cases where I couldn't possibly divide my current in-game sensitivity by 7.5 and still be on the scale the game provides.

Thus, 800 is where I stay. My 360 distance is where I've built muscle memory and whatever benefit I could possibly get from a technical standpoint by running at a higher dpi is far eclipsed by the value of the muscle memory.
Xbox One / PC
XIM Apex / Logitech G Pro Keyboard / Logitech G900
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Offline colb

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Agree with everything but this, haha. Real pros don't exceed 800 on PC :P
They also probably don't test at higher DPI values, having the perception that 800 is the way to go simply because that's what everyone else does.

My suggestion is simply to watch the videos and draw your own conclusion.

Nah. The video is irrelevant. Most PC games don't offer a low enough sensitivity to allow you to use anything over 1200 DPI. Hell,  800 is almost too high


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