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is there a anti recoil thing for xim 4?  (Read 16295 times)

Offline antithesis

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Re: is there a anti recoil thing for xim 4?
« Reply #45 on: 11:32 PM - 07/16/17 »
Using an unlicensed m/kb adapter masking itself as a third-party official controller to prevent detection and a possible device ban on consoles that don't natively support mouse controls... cheating or not? Survey the general gaming public, how do you think they'll respond? Do a search for Xim on any gaming forum or website and you'll find the answer pretty quickly. That moral highground you're pitching your tents on is looking pretty shaky.

Rapid-fire and anti-recoil are very lightweight mods compared to hacks and lag-switches and have little effect on the outcome. Perhaps if you loosened the stick up your arse and tried it yourself, you'd realise it ain't that bad, nor that effective after all, especially against high-level opposition.

That's exactly the same counter-argument we use to defend our Xims against the naysayers who call us cheaters, isn't it? ;) Besides, aren't they packing Scufs and Battle Beavers with access to the same types of "performance" mods?

This isn't a black and white issue, there are all shades of grey. If you were above reproach and insisted on an even playing field, you wouldn't be here in the first place, would you? Keep deluding yourselves into believing you're somehow better because you cheat in a different way...

If you reduce that recoil is not so big problem and is easier to aim and mid him fight start to be even easier to win.
Theoretically, yes. In reality, no.

As I've stated repeatedly, anti-recoil doesn't work particularly well because it locks you into over or undershooting if your target decides to move, which is every gamer ever in a multiplayer lobby. The brain and the hand can easily adapt, but a script programmed to move the reticle down X pixels and across Y pixels cannot.  You end up trading predictable recoil for unpredictable anti-recoil, ergo it's all but useless in multi-player games, but has a place in single-player where bots lack the intelligence to dodge bullets.

The Division is a good case in point. The recoil on guns is really heavy and can be countered pretty well using anti-recoil. But, the second the opponent moves laterally or vertically is the second anti-recoil falls to pieces. So while anti-recoil is effective in single-player against a stationary target, it's really ineffective in multi-player and ultimately hurts rather than helps the player using it.

If you knew what anti-recoil actually does from experience rather than what you think it does from theorycrafting, (just like the unwashed controller masses when discussing the Xim) you'd understand that it's all but useless for multi-player, so there's absolutely no point getting your knickers in a knot. Getting used to and controlling recoil manually is by far the more effective and safer path, particularly given in-game gear mods reduce recoil and can turn semi-auto into auto-fire weapons.

So really, all you end up with is an argument against freeing up a couple of weapon slots and automating tedious button-mashing. That's quality of life stuff, not OMFGBBQ hax0r! Using the pinpoint precision and control of a mouse against the clumsiness of thumb-based analog sticks far outweighs the minor benefit (and potentially significant detriment) of rapid-fire and/or anti-recoil ??? But it also doesn't guarantee the win. Stones and glass houses...

As the Xim should have taught you by now, there's a world of difference between thinking and knowing. That's why I say "live and let live" because in reality, it has close to zero effect on the outcome and any benefit is diminished the higher up the food chain you go.

Exploitation of macros is forbidden and may result in account suspension or revocation.
(https://rainbow6.ubisoft.com/siege/en-us/news/detail.aspx?c=tcm:152-249092-16&ct=tcm:148-76770-32)
<snip>
It's not a fair use since it's illegal.

It's not illegal in the slightest. Show me a single piece of legislation that outlaws the use of macros. If I can't go to jail or be sued for using a macro, then it's not "illegal".

What it is, is considered unethical and ethics vary wildly from person to person. What's right for me may be wrong for you and we'll take opposing or similar stances, depending on the topic of discussion. But using macros is very definitely and has never been "illegal".

Gaming companies provide ethical guidelines about how you're supposed to behave in their games, not legislation resulting in criminal or civil charges.

You'll also note the careful wording of Ubisoft. "Exploitation" of macros is forbidden. That doesn't mean "Use" of macros is forbidden. Exploitation is when you find a flaw in a game engine and use it to your advantage. Jitter mods in Call of Duty are one such example, head-glitching and spawn-camping are others.
« Last Edit: 12:55 AM - 07/17/17 by antithesis »

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Offline TSARGA

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Re: is there a anti recoil thing for xim 4?
« Reply #46 on: 09:34 AM - 07/17/17 »
It's not illegal in the slightest. Show me a single piece of legislation that outlaws the use of macros. If I can't go to jail or be sued for using a macro, then it's not "illegal".
It's just a figurative term, but I will say "allowed" in order to avoid confusion.

Using an unlicensed m/kb adapter masking itself as a third-party official controller to prevent detection and a possible device ban on consoles that don't natively support mouse controls... cheating or not?
No (the code of conduct says so). Btw it's not about preventing detection, but working. I had a joystick that worked on the same principle on PS3.

Survey the general gaming public, how do you think they'll respond? Do a search for Xim on any gaming forum or website and you'll find the answer pretty quickly.
We could care about that.

Rapid-fire and anti-recoil are very lightweight mods compared to hacks and lag-switches and have little effect on the outcome.
Yes, I do agree with you, but the code of conduct says that it's not allowed.

That's exactly the same counter-argument we use to defend our Xims against the naysayers who call us cheaters, isn't it? ;) Besides, aren't they packing Scufs and Battle Beavers with access to the same types of "performance" mods?

This isn't a black and white issue, there are all shades of grey. If you were above reproach and insisted on an even playing field, you wouldn't be here in the first place, would you? Keep deluding yourselves into believing you're somehow better because you cheat in a different way..
The code of conduct says that macros are not allowed. I don't know the details about Scuf/Battle Beaver hardware, but as long as they have no macros they're allowed.

We are above reproach since the code of conduct says so.

You'll also note the careful wording of Ubisoft. "Exploitation" of macros is forbidden. That doesn't mean "Use" of macros is forbidden. Exploitation is when you find a flaw in a game engine and use it to your advantage. Jitter mods in Call of Duty are one such example, head-glitching and spawn-camping are others.
Definition:
Quote
The action of making use of and benefiting from resources.
(https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/exploitation)

I agree on the fact that many terms in both PlayStation and Ubisoft codes of conduct aren't defined clearly enough, which means that they will have to use the definition that's in favour of the defendant.

Offline antithesis

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Re: is there a anti recoil thing for xim 4?
« Reply #47 on: 06:08 PM - 07/17/17 »
Survey the general gaming public, how do you think they'll respond? Do a search for Xim on any gaming forum or website and you'll find the answer pretty quickly.
We could care less (sic) about that.

Bingo. There's your answer. If you don't care what they think about a Xim (it is perceived as a cheating device), then why should those who use basic mod scripts care about what you think?

From a "legal" perspective, you are right. Yes, it's "wrong" within the parameters of the EULA, and yes it's "cheating" within those same definitions, but it's an acceptable amount of risk because the potential damage caused is negligible and the risk of being banned is close to zero.

Unless you're exploiting the game engine (which is really up to developers to fix), or deliberately harming the experience of others (a big no-no like lag-switching, DDoS etc), getting banned by breaking the PSN/XBL code of conduct or a game's T&C is not worth a nanosecond of thought.

From an ethical perspective, you can get banned for using a Xim in multiplayer competition that explicitly precludes m/kb from use to participate, but does that stop you from using a Xim for pub-stomping? Does your  Xim really make such a significant negative impact to everyone else's experience that you consider it unethical and go back to using a controller? I dare say you don't give a [email protected] what anyone else in the game thinks, as long as you're enhancing your own experience and not blatantly damaging anyone else's in the process.

Sony, MS, publishers and developers have better ways to spend their limited resources than hunting down mod script users. If mod scripting was a serious problem, surely Sony and MS would try to block it at the device level rather than target individual end-users. Until that happens, I'll continue to care less.

Besides, simple randomisation can mask the otherwise perfect synchronicity of rapid-fire or degree of anti-recoil while not impacting the effect, so there's no way to actually prove that I'm not a wizard with my thumbs, even with the appropriate telemetry to measure my game input.
« Last Edit: 07:00 PM - 07/17/17 by antithesis »

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Offline Frash brang

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Re: is there a anti recoil thing for xim 4?
« Reply #48 on: 04:44 AM - 07/18/17 »
Well articulate antithesis.

Offline TSARGA

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Re: is there a anti recoil thing for xim 4?
« Reply #49 on: 09:56 AM - 07/19/17 »
Bingo. There's your answer. If you don't care what they think about a Xim (it is perceived as a cheating device), then why should those who use basic mod scripts care about what you think?
But the XIM isn't and will never be perceived as a cheating device. You are referring to a loud minority, since people who wrongfully consider it cheating post about how they don't like it and normal people just don't care. Empty vessels make the most noise.

Although I am 100% sure that rapid fire scripts are cheating, there is a slight chance that anti-recoil scripts aren't. I looked around some video game forums (including Ubisoft's ofc) and I think I know what's considered cheating. The definition of "allowed peripheral" isn't given anywhere, but here's my guess: "A single piece of hardware or any set of interconnected hardware modules that outputs a single output for each input (where time is not a factor)." which, technically, would allow anti-recoil.

There is no grey - the code of conduct makes it black and white. The code of conduct must be executed and unclear terms will be defined in favour of the defendant.

From a "legal" perspective, you are right. Yes, it's "wrong" within the parameters of the EULA, and yes it's "cheating" within those same definitions, but it's an acceptable amount of risk because the potential damage caused is negligible and the risk of being banned is close to zero.
Yes, but it's unethical.

From an ethical perspective, you can get banned for using a Xim in multiplayer competition that explicitly precludes m/kb from use to participate, but does that stop you from using a Xim for pub-stomping? Does your  Xim really make such a significant negative impact to everyone else's experience that you consider it unethical and go back to using a controller? I dare say you don't give a [email protected] what anyone else in the game thinks, as long as you're enhancing your own experience and not blatantly damaging anyone else's in the process.
So if we play with TV remotes, then people who play with controllers are cheaters?
« Last Edit: 01:58 PM - 07/19/17 by TSARGA »

Offline casual_gamer_

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Re: is there a anti recoil thing for xim 4?
« Reply #50 on: 03:53 PM - 07/19/17 »
People need to understand anti-recoil for console is not the same as PC. For PC anti-recoil, it is an actual hack where it taps into the game engine and literally changing some coding to eliminate recoil. For controller it's more of a program to move your aim for you. It is actually very risky. Some games like The Division where the longer you hold the fire the higher recoil becomes. They make it worse by having some sort of continuation from when you reload.

 For example on your first mag if it takes 5 bullets before you start seeing vertical movement, on your next magazine if you continue to fire right after you reload it may only take 3 bullets before you start seeing the vertical movement, and at that point it would even be a stronger vertical movement. That's why anti-recoil script with cronusmax or Titan 1 or 2 doesn't work very well on most games.


Offline antithesis

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Re: is there a anti recoil thing for xim 4?
« Reply #51 on: 09:48 PM - 07/19/17 »
But the XIM isn't and will never be perceived as a cheating device. You are referring to a loud minority, since people who wrongfully consider it cheating post about how they don't like it and normal people just don't care. Empty vessels make the most noise.
Except it's not a vocal minority, most non-Xim users think it's a cheating device because they don't understand that we're subject to the same console gaming limitations that they are. Perception is king, despite the reality being that Xim is indeed not a cheating device.

Although I am 100% sure that rapid fire scripts are cheating, there is a slight chance that anti-recoil scripts aren't. I looked around some video game forums (including Ubisoft's ofc) and I think I know what's considered cheating. The definition of "allowed peripheral" isn't given anywhere, but here's my guess: "A single piece of hardware or any set of interconnected hardware modules that outputs a single output for each input (where time is not a factor)." which, technically, would allow anti-recoil.

There is no grey - the code of conduct makes it black and white. The code of conduct must be executed and unclear terms will be defined in favour of the defendant.
So you've just described a grey area and then said there is no grey...

What about using mod scripts as assistive technology? piiwii's already provided an example where he would be unable to play his favourite video games due to a medical condition if not able to use a rapid-fire mod.

And what about the guy I helped recently who only has half a hand and can't use a controller, nor can he comfortably use a keyboard? The best he can do is mash a group of buttons and hope to hit the right one. Using a Titan Two, he can customise his controls to meet his needs. If it weren't for the ability to modify game input, he'd be excluded from playing video games altogether.

There's an argument that preventing the use mod scripts is a form of discrimination, which likely has something to do with none of these devices being blocked or banned at the OS level.

Yes, but it's unethical.
Again, ethics are entirely subjective. What's wrong for you is right for me and I'm ok with being right.

So if we play with TV remotes, then people who play with controllers are cheaters?
Silly example, but let's go with it. If TV remotes were the default controls for consoles and some players were able to use far superior controllers instead, then yes, if you tried to use a controller in a TV remote only mode, it is most definitely cheating.

The reality is that using a Xim is not cheating, unless expressly prohibited, such as tournament rules. Given tourney rules are the highest ethical standard to benchmark oneself against, surely you find your own use of a Xim to be unethical, even while pub-stomping? Or is this another grey area...

Ethics are rubbery, terms of conduct are loose and the chances of being banned on XBL or PSN for a minor offence like using rapid-fire or anti-recoil are close as to zero as they can possibly be.

If Sony doesn't ban blatant trophy hackers, selling trophy-hacked accounts, spamming & scamming free PSN cards, or game-sharing so people don't have to pay for games (all of which is against the ToS, all of which I've reported with accompanying screenshots, and the only outcome was receiving a warning not to abuse the reporting system), then they don't give a flickety-fark about someone holding down a button to shoot.

The reason Sony cares about custom firmware is they're legally responsible to ensure software publishers are not subject to digital piracy on their platform. They try to stomp it out via firmware updates that block CFW from accessing the PSN rather than targeting individual end-users. It's very rare for even CFW users to be banned outright, unless they hack a multiplayer lobby, which directly affects the user experience of all customers of that game.

This is a pointless argument. If this is an ethical debate, they we're both right because we both have different moral perspectives. If it's a legal debate, then I am most definitely wrong, but my ethical standards permit it, so I'll do it regardless of the infinitesimal risk of getting caught.

And if do get caught, how on God's green earth do they prove it? And if they provide proof, I can either claim I have the reflexes of a snake or raise the discrimination flag...better to just ignore it because it's a very small problem that isn't worth the time or money to resolve.
« Last Edit: 10:08 PM - 07/19/17 by antithesis »

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Offline Supernatural X

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Re: is there a anti recoil thing for xim 4?
« Reply #52 on: 05:38 PM - 07/20/17 »
And if do get caught, how on God's green earth do they prove it? And if they provide proof, I can either claim I have the reflexes of a snake or raise the discrimination flag...better to just ignore it because it's a very small problem that isn't worth the time or money to resolve. - Antithesis

If you get banned for having anti recoil on CoD then there's no one to really raise the discrimination flag or properly defend yourself and using anti recoil is a game ruining experience thats not allowed in ToS. Also its blatantly obvious when someone is using anti recoil so it is very easy to identify. It's like saying 'because they can't prove I aimbot even though I'm blatantly aimbotting then I shouldn't be banned even though I'm ruining the gaming experience for others.

Also ethically Xim is a grey area because we are confined to controller turn speeds but have an advantage as far as shooting people but not turning around/on people.

Edit: I don't know how to quote a portion of someone's post on these forums sorry.
« Last Edit: 06:44 PM - 07/20/17 by Supernatural X »

Offline omega4

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Re: is there a anti recoil thing for xim 4?
« Reply #53 on: 01:47 PM - 07/21/17 »
What about using mod scripts as assistive technology? piiwii's already provided an example where he would be unable to play his favourite video games due to a medical condition if not able to use a rapid-fire mod.

And what about the guy I helped recently who only has half a hand and can't use a controller, nor can he comfortably use a keyboard? The best he can do is mash a group of buttons and hope to hit the right one. Using a Titan Two, he can customise his controls to meet his needs. If it weren't for the ability to modify game input, he'd be excluded from playing video games altogether.

There's an argument that preventing the use mod scripts is a form of discrimination, which likely has something to do with none of these devices being blocked or banned at the OS level.

You're treading on a slippery slope now. Where do you draw the line?

Do you give wallhacks to those who are close to being legally blind so they can enjoy playing a game with others?

Do you give aimbots to those who can't aim properly because of a physical handicap so they can enjoy playing game with others?

I wouldn't be opposed to offering additional aid only to those who need it if there were some way to restrict these "tools" to those who truly need it.

But we both know there's no easy way to accomplish this. And that's why I'm not in favor of creating cheats, even if it was originally intended for a good cause.
My XIM4 allows me to play against other gamers like....


Offline S13002931

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Re: is there a anti recoil thing for xim 4?
« Reply #54 on: 12:20 PM - 03/27/18 »
In my experience, anti-recoil is typically more trouble than its worth. All it does is automate the downward (and sometimes left or right) pull of a stick or mouse while firing to recentre your reticle on a target. It's barely worth calling a cheat, particularly considering the inconsistencies of aiming with anti-recoil active where you're largely locked into a predetermined movement pattern whether you like it or not.

Anti-recoil can do a decent enough job of controlling bullet spread, but you'll rarely fully eliminate recoil, particularly if it's randomised due to reticle bloom, or when you're tracking a moving target. Controlled burst-fire, in-game weapon mods and manual aim tends to do a better job than an anti-recoil script, whilst maintaining full reticle control throughout.

I've written probably the best Titan One anti-recoil script to use with a Xim, but I don't use it myself. I'd rather choose a weapon that feels good with a Xim and manually adapt to its recoil pattern. Knowing where to land the first shot for the last to hit the head is a lot easier than wrestling for control over the reticle when you need it most.

In the end, it really depends on the game you're playing and how comfortable you are with your load-out. Anti-recoil does help quite a bit in some games with some weapons, but it's completely useless in others.

if you record a killcam of someone using an obvious rapidifre script and you send that to sony or microsoft that person is usually banned pretty quickly
The chances of that are slim to none. Sony and MS has better things to do with their money than chase someone using a rapid-fire script. The only risk is when you're doing something a game engine is otherwise incapable of doing. This typically involves a jitter mod where a reload animation is intentionally disrupted to increase fire-rate, or spamming ADS to improve aim assist, which is frankly nauseating. Either mod is a really easy tell that you're intentionally exploiting a flaw in the game rather than automating controller input and if you do get caught doing it, it's your own stupid fault.

Not sure how old you are but you're still missing the point of what others are saying. A cheat includes aimbots, wallhacks, AND anti-recoil scripts.
Anti-recoil may be considered cheating, but aimbots and wallhacks are a completely different kettle of fish. They tap directly into the game engine to aim for you, something that's not possible on a (non-hacked) console, nor via a Titan One, Titan Two, Cronus Max or Xim Commander script.

You still have to aim properly while using anti-recoil, it just knocks some of the recoil buffeting off for you by automating a degree of X&Y axis stick movement, at the risk that you'll overshoot, undershoot or lose reticle control at a critical moment. Like rapid-fire, anti-recoil can help by focusing you more on the next shot than the last, but it can't plant a bullet in the enemy's head for you.

Whether you use mod scripts or not is entirely up to you. No-one needs to know, it doesn't dramatically affect the outcome (unless it's a blatant jitter mod) and no-one else here really has the right to judge the morality of doing it on a console m/kb forum. I write some pretty well-received Titan and CM mod scripts, more to improve my own user experience than anything, and I share them simply to provide folks with decent tools to make their own decision.


Hi. Can you please  make antirecoil script  for  xim apex   titan 1 or Cronusmax  ?   I guess   both devices  support same scripts ?  I have  Cronusmax.   

Game The Division  .   Script for Assault rifles

Thanks
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Offline Od1n

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Re: is there a anti recoil thing for xim 4?
« Reply #55 on: 01:46 PM - 03/27/18 »
anti recoil scripts go a step too far and will be removed from the forum when posted
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Offline antithesis

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Re: is there a anti recoil thing for xim 4?
« Reply #56 on: 03:48 PM - 03/27/18 »
Hi. Can you please  make antirecoil script  for  xim apex   titan 1 or Cronusmax  ?   I guess   both devices  support same scripts ?  I have  Cronusmax.   

Game The Division  .   Script for Assault rifles

Thanks
The Division sucks royally for anti-recoil and there are too many variables for anti-recoil to provide a predictable benefit, like duration of burst, distance to target, cover, stance, movement, weapon mods etc.

Anti-recoil is a horrible mess and falls apart the second your target moves, so no, I won't provide a script for The Division. That and this is the wrong forum to discuss or request a script. I'll say no on those forums too.

You're far better off burst-firing to control bloom in The Division. Even better, use an SMG which has virtually no recoil, especially when paired with a shield.

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Offline S13002931

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Re: is there a anti recoil thing for xim 4?
« Reply #57 on: 10:52 PM - 03/27/18 »
Hi

Very well ,   a short   YES or NO  answer will be appreciated for below  question.


Can you  " adjust  recoil" using   " ballistic curve " in xim configuration  ?


Many thanks

( I am "new" in world of xim  , I appreciate your support  and answers to questions I may ask/ asked ),   havent got time to go through 1million posts on forum.
 
 IF YOU CAN'T  GIVE  STRAIGHT ANSWER, PLEASE  DON'T  REDIRECT  ME TO THOUSAND POSTS.
 
thanks.
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Offline antithesis

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Re: is there a anti recoil thing for xim 4?
« Reply #58 on: 11:20 PM - 03/27/18 »
Adjust your YX ratio above 1.0 to make recoil easier to manage, that's the best way to do it on a Xim.

Ballistics Curves are more about X-axis turn speed, though they do affect the Y axis too.

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Offline S13002931

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Re: is there a anti recoil thing for xim 4?
« Reply #59 on: 01:03 AM - 03/28/18 »
Adjust your YX ratio above 1.0 to make recoil easier to manage, that's the best way to do it on a Xim.

Ballistics Curves are more about X-axis turn speed, though they do affect the Y axis too.

Thank you  :)   hopefully I will learn all by  The Division  2 comes.   
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