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OVERWATCH Linear Fix  (Read 79819 times)

Offline N1TRO

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Re: OVERWATCH Linear Fix
« Reply #330 on: 03:55 PM - 08/15/17 »
If you did do that you will have ruined the curve you have to adjust the whole curve you start with the different ps4 start point and then use the same incrimental changes from big ol bullys curve it will be slightly longer as it starts at a lower value also the large post about new features being added is very interesting but can someone please summerise what these changes will mean to the constoll options available and how the changes could help to create a better experience i would appriciate it and im sure others would also
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Offline N1TRO

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Re: OVERWATCH Linear Fix
« Reply #331 on: 04:20 PM - 08/15/17 »
Ps4 version of big ol bullys curve:

>>> XIM4 [Mouse Ballistics] START PASTE >>>
X4MB:AAAAGgA0AC4AMAAwAC4AMgAwADEANgAwADQAMAA1EBQZHyczRV1+n5+fn5+fn5+fn5+f:X4MB
<<< XIM4 END PASTE <<<

Starts at 8.0 as it wasnt possible at 8.5 ans has an extra step in the midzone to accomadate for the lower start point it should be almost identical in feel though
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Offline OBsIV

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Re: OVERWATCH Linear Fix
« Reply #332 on: 04:29 PM - 08/15/17 »
From the overwatch official forum:

Linear Ramp and Aim Curves
 Tim Ford Lead Engineer
I’d like to clear up some confusion about the difference between Linear and Exponential Ramp as well as announce some new options you can leverage to fine tune your aim. I’ve read a few posts that assume Exponential Ramp yields a exponentially higher turn rate than Linear when the aim stick is fully deflected. This is a reasonable assumption, since an exponential curve will yield a higher result than a linear curve for values greater than 1. However, the goal of Exponential Ramp is to map a sensitive aim stick to a restrained aim value. We achieve this goal by mapping linear input to exponential values over the range from 0 to 1. The exponential ramp values we are concerned with fall into the region of the curve boxed in the following image:
http://imgur.com/fiGfLpI
Your input is constrained from 0 to 1 where 0 is the value at the tip of the dead zone (usually about 20-25% stick deflection) and 1 is fully deflected. The dead zone is computed with the scaled radial technique explained here (http://www.third-helix.com/2013/04/12/doing-thumbstick-dead-zones-right.html). Linear Ramp uses this value to compute your aim turn rate. Exponential Ramp scales this value (roughly) by a power of 2.5. So, a Linear Ramp input of 0.25 will map to an Exponential Ramp input of 0.03125. A Linear Ramp input of 0.75 will map to an Exponential Ramp input of 0.4871. Naturally, a Linear Ramp input of 1.0 will map to an Exponential Ramp input of 1.0. Incidentally, Exponential Ramp is “roughly” a power of 2.5 because it’s actually a hand drawn curve we borrowed from our generous friends on the Call of Duty team.
Today, we give you two choices for input curve mapping, Linear and Exponential Ramp (Dual-Zone is technically linear as well). Of course, there are a whole family of possible curves between linear and our current exponential (and beyond). In an upcoming patch, we will add an option called Aim Ease In. This is a slider option from 0 to 100 that corresponds to an exponent from 1 to 5 respectively. Combined with Linear Ramp, this option will allow you to select a wide range of curves to map your aim input to your taste.
http://imgur.com/MzZZKNL
Aim Ease In is compatible with Exponential Ramp and Dual Zone, although you should expect a fairly compressed aim curve if you crank this option with Exponential Ramp.

Link: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20758657839?page=1

This is all very strange to me. It's clear that Blizzard doesn't really have a grasp about what makes a good aiming system on consoles. They do know something is wrong -- they are researching it and getting advice, but, they still don't have a good solution. So, as developers, it's an easy trap to fall in to when you don't know how to solve something you expose more settings and push the problem down to the user. It's up to them to figure out what feels "right". Another example of this (to an extreme) is Valve and the Steam controller.

They've concentrated specifically on the exponent of the curve and got feedback from COD developers. This is all very basic -- circular deadzones, stick deflection-based acceleration. That's all fine, but, notice they haven't talked about the most important thing they haven't yet addressed -- that is what "1" means on all their charts they shared.

They want gamers to be able to change the way the game aims by adding another setting their customer-base won't understand. But, why is it that COD and BF feel so good without these confusing settings? That's because they don't ignore turn speed.

This is what I don't understand. There is nothing good about adding another setting (increasing parameterization) to change the exponent on their curve. What they should have done for OW -- which COD and BF already do -- is allow the gamer to choose which *part* of the curve they operate in with a significantly higher turn speed limit. This way, with the same curve, fine aim response can be adjusted just by modifying turn speed (which people do understand).

But, COD wasn't completely forthcoming with Blizzard. There is quite a bit more going on with CODs aiming system than just the "2.5" factor they shared which makes it feel great. XIM's smart translator trainer sees it and shows us. But, just increasing maximum turn speed and removing all time-based acceleration will result in an aiming system that is at least closer to COD.
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Offline Lineater

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Re: OVERWATCH Linear Fix
« Reply #333 on: 06:56 PM - 08/15/17 »
Bully, can you please post the screens?

ALL THE SCREENS!


You'll notice with the BullyCurve™ all the aiming is done right at the beginning. That's almost totally linear except right before it transitions on the turning speed. I added a little curve there so it's not as jolting when the turn speed kicks in.

OH and the "Wheel" page is for my commands and sprays.

I use my Nav left trigger to ADS and my Right Click on my Mouse to Jump. (Make sure you have your own buttons on the ADS trigger if that's different for you)

ALSO THIS IS FOR XBOX ONLY!!!!!! PS4 users will have to take my curve and subtract 6 from each interval. Maybe if someone likes it, they'll post the line. I'd recommend taking each of my steps and loading them into Excel. Then just mass subtract 6 and put those new numbers in.
Hope you like it, and @Lineater, I can't say for sure I'll stick with this but right now i REALLY like it.

So if I start the PS4 curve at 8.5, then I would subtract 3.5 from each value?  Here is that version of th curve for PS4:

Quote
>>> XIM4 [Mouse Ballistics] START PASTE >>>
X4MB:AAAAGgA0AC4AMAAwAC4AMgAwADEANgAwADQAMAA1ERUaICg0THKYmJiYmJiYmJiYmJiY:X4MB
<<< XIM4 END PASTE <<<

Is this right?  The curve def. looks different.  I'd post a pic but can't figure out how to do it on IPad.  I definitely need to bump my sens up with this version.
« Last Edit: 07:04 PM - 08/15/17 by Lineater »

Offline N1TRO

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Re: OVERWATCH Linear Fix
« Reply #334 on: 07:41 PM - 08/15/17 »
Its not quite that simple but thats how it works at the start but to maintain the same accelerated curve it has to be done relative to the origional curve after the 25.5 value i go to 34.5 then 46.5,63,79.5 then the remaining incriments are 79.5 to level off under the turn cap i would add i started at 8 which i dont like as it was necesary but you could bump it up to 8.5 with minimal impact however i do not like this setup anyway the sudden massive acceleration after a small window is horrible it makes tracer and genji very annoying to play and i dont like the feel either i prefer the basic linear 8.5 curve its hoodlems second curve if u want the code
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Offline Lineater

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Re: OVERWATCH Linear Fix
« Reply #335 on: 01:20 AM - 08/16/17 »
I'm confused how to convert Bully's curve to PS4 numbers. Can anyone explain it clearly?

Offline EvilSparx

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Re: OVERWATCH Linear Fix
« Reply #336 on: 04:01 AM - 08/16/17 »
From the overwatch official forum:

Linear Ramp and Aim Curves
 Tim Ford Lead Engineer
I’d like to clear up some confusion about the difference between Linear and Exponential Ramp as well as announce some new options you can leverage to fine tune your aim. I’ve read a few posts that assume Exponential Ramp yields a exponentially higher turn rate than Linear when the aim stick is fully deflected. This is a reasonable assumption, since an exponential curve will yield a higher result than a linear curve for values greater than 1. However, the goal of Exponential Ramp is to map a sensitive aim stick to a restrained aim value. We achieve this goal by mapping linear input to exponential values over the range from 0 to 1. The exponential ramp values we are concerned with fall into the region of the curve boxed in the following image:
http://imgur.com/fiGfLpI
Your input is constrained from 0 to 1 where 0 is the value at the tip of the dead zone (usually about 20-25% stick deflection) and 1 is fully deflected. The dead zone is computed with the scaled radial technique explained here (http://www.third-helix.com/2013/04/12/doing-thumbstick-dead-zones-right.html). Linear Ramp uses this value to compute your aim turn rate. Exponential Ramp scales this value (roughly) by a power of 2.5. So, a Linear Ramp input of 0.25 will map to an Exponential Ramp input of 0.03125. A Linear Ramp input of 0.75 will map to an Exponential Ramp input of 0.4871. Naturally, a Linear Ramp input of 1.0 will map to an Exponential Ramp input of 1.0. Incidentally, Exponential Ramp is “roughly” a power of 2.5 because it’s actually a hand drawn curve we borrowed from our generous friends on the Call of Duty team.
Today, we give you two choices for input curve mapping, Linear and Exponential Ramp (Dual-Zone is technically linear as well). Of course, there are a whole family of possible curves between linear and our current exponential (and beyond). In an upcoming patch, we will add an option called Aim Ease In. This is a slider option from 0 to 100 that corresponds to an exponent from 1 to 5 respectively. Combined with Linear Ramp, this option will allow you to select a wide range of curves to map your aim input to your taste.
http://imgur.com/MzZZKNL
Aim Ease In is compatible with Exponential Ramp and Dual Zone, although you should expect a fairly compressed aim curve if you crank this option with Exponential Ramp.

Link: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20758657839?page=1

This is all very strange to me. It's clear that Blizzard doesn't really have a grasp about what makes a good aiming system on consoles. They do know something is wrong -- they are researching it and getting advice, but, they still don't have a good solution. So, as developers, it's an easy trap to fall in to when you don't know how to solve something you expose more settings and push the problem down to the user. It's up to them to figure out what feels "right". Another example of this (to an extreme) is Valve and the Steam controller.

They've concentrated specifically on the exponent of the curve and got feedback from COD developers. This is all very basic -- circular deadzones, stick deflection-based acceleration. That's all fine, but, notice they haven't talked about the most important thing they haven't yet addressed -- that is what "1" means on all their charts they shared.

They want gamers to be able to change the way the game aims by adding another setting their customer-base won't understand. But, why is it that COD and BF feel so good without these confusing settings? That's because they don't ignore turn speed.

This is what I don't understand. There is nothing good about adding another setting (increasing parameterization) to change the exponent on their curve. What they should have done for OW -- which COD and BF already do -- is allow the gamer to choose which *part* of the curve they operate in with a significantly higher turn speed limit. This way, with the same curve, fine aim response can be adjusted just by modifying turn speed (which people do understand).

But, COD wasn't completely forthcoming with Blizzard. There is quite a bit more going on with CODs aiming system than just the "2.5" factor they shared which makes it feel great. XIM's smart translator trainer sees it and shows us. But, just increasing maximum turn speed and removing all time-based acceleration will result in an aiming system that is at least closer to COD.

What does the cod aim ramp look like in your smart translator?

A Big Ol Bully

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Re: OVERWATCH Linear Fix
« Reply #337 on: 10:28 AM - 08/16/17 »
I'm confused how to convert Bully's curve to PS4 numbers. Can anyone explain it clearly?
Ok so the numbers on the Left are the Xbox Curve - The second are the 8.0 PS4 curve and the Third is 8.5 PS4 curve
XBOX    PS4   PS4 8.0
12            8.5            8
14           10.5           10
16.5           13           12.5
19.5           16           15.5
23.5           20           19.5
29.5           26           25.5
41.5           38           37.5
60.5           57           56.5
79.5         76           75.5 - x13

I'm not going to plug those numbers in for you but there you go
(totally didn't mean to round all those numbers, just kinda ended up that way)

Offline hditano

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Re: OVERWATCH Linear Fix
« Reply #338 on: 10:48 AM - 08/16/17 »
Has anyone found widow settings when using linear? Still Traver genji and widow on expo

Offline Lineater

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Re: OVERWATCH Linear Fix
« Reply #339 on: 01:31 PM - 08/16/17 »
I'm confused how to convert Bully's curve to PS4 numbers. Can anyone explain it clearly?
Ok so the numbers on the Left are the Xbox Curve - The second are the 8.0 PS4 curve and the Third is 8.5 PS4 curve
XBOX    PS4   PS4 8.0
12            8.5            8
14           10.5           10
16.5           13           12.5
19.5           16           15.5
23.5           20           19.5
29.5           26           25.5
41.5           38           37.5
60.5           57           56.5
79.5         76           75.5 - x13

I'm not going to plug those numbers in for you but there you go
(totally didn't mean to round all those numbers, just kinda ended up that way)

I tried that, and the aiming portion of the curve looked off to me.  I'm not good at this math stuff though, so not sure what.  I made a quick pic in photoshop to compare the curves:


Offline Kitten_Hearts

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Re: OVERWATCH Linear Fix
« Reply #340 on: 07:54 PM - 08/16/17 »
Hey bully what do you use for pc settings?

Offline hditano

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Re: OVERWATCH Linear Fix
« Reply #341 on: 04:18 AM - 08/17/17 »
I'm confused how to convert Bully's curve to PS4 numbers. Can anyone explain it clearly?
Ok so the numbers on the Left are the Xbox Curve - The second are the 8.0 PS4 curve and the Third is 8.5 PS4 curve
XBOX    PS4   PS4 8.0
12            8.5            8
14           10.5           10
16.5           13           12.5
19.5           16           15.5
23.5           20           19.5
29.5           26           25.5
41.5           38           37.5
60.5           57           56.5
79.5         76           75.5 - x13

I'm not going to plug those numbers in for you but there you go
(totally didn't mean to round all those numbers, just kinda ended up that way)

Bully do you play mcree tracer soldier on those settings too?
I mean the one that is posted with pics a few posts above.
Thx

Offline Magnetos hate

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Re: OVERWATCH Linear Fix
« Reply #342 on: 11:07 AM - 08/17/17 »
I wanted to provide an update. I've been playing around most of the season switching between boost and curve. IMHO Boost is way better. I added a quick up straight line and it really helped. This is what I've stuck with and will be sticking with until an update.
 
>>> XIM4 [Mouse Ballistics] START PASTE >>>
X4MB:AAAAGgA0AC4AMAAwAC4AMgAwADEANgAwADQAMAA1ABgwSWF5kpOVlpeZmpydnp+fn5+f:X4MB
<<< XIM4 END PASTE <<<



Tried linear again with these settings after just not getting on with it before. This is a solid setup for me now.

Use above with 3625 boost, 29 sensitivity, 1.5 x/y. This is a g502 at 12k dpi.


Okay.

Hey fellas, I've been using Xim for OW now for what feels like a year... I've always used expo, but I'm trying to make the switch to linear and upon looking into this there seems to be so much fidgeting to get a proper setup going, and then on top of all that hard work each curve seems to only work for a handful of people.


I am trying this out right now, but it seems that small movements don't pick up readily... I am assuming this is a deadzone issue.


I play high sense, 12K DPI on my G502, on Xbox One. Anyone have other settings that may work; I'm still looking through the thread...


Edit: I tried out the curve method from the OP. I am immediately in love with the feel of linear... I am on Xbox, have always been a high sense player and am seeing I'm around 70-90 sens with the curve starting at 12. Anyone who is high sense play on something drastically different?
« Last Edit: 11:32 AM - 08/17/17 by Magnetos hate »
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Offline humanfemale

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Re: OVERWATCH Linear Fix
« Reply #343 on: 11:30 AM - 08/17/17 »
each curve seems to only work for a handful of people.

I am trying this out right now, but it seems that small movements don't pick up readily... I am assuming this is a deadzone issue.

If it's Linear that you want to test there is only one curve, the curve that works around the dead zone problem. It looks like this:


Or as alternative option you do not use that curve and instead apply Boost to work around dead zone problem.

All the other up and down, mountain range types of curves are experiments of individual players that do not maintain close to linear acceleration as you move the mouse from slow to fast.

Offline Magnetos hate

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Re: OVERWATCH Linear Fix
« Reply #344 on: 12:01 PM - 08/17/17 »
each curve seems to only work for a handful of people.

I am trying this out right now, but it seems that small movements don't pick up readily... I am assuming this is a deadzone issue.

If it's Linear that you want to test there is only one curve, the curve that works around the dead zone problem. It looks like this:


Or as alternative option you do not use that curve and instead apply Boost to work around dead zone problem.

All the other up and down, mountain range types of curves are experiments of individual players that do not maintain close to linear acceleration as you move the mouse from slow to fast.

I've switched to the curve some 20 minutes ago and I've already fallen in love. Just gotta find a good sens and I'll be off to the races I feel.. thanks to you guys who figured this ish out!
Xbox One X
BenQ Monitor
Logitech G603 Lightspeed Wireless Mouse
Corsair K70 Strafe Keyboard