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Overwatch: floatiness, sniping and my setup  (Read 28717 times)

Offline humanfemale

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Overwatch: floatiness, sniping and my setup
« on: 11:25 AM - 07/15/16 »
UPDATED: Sat Feb 11 2017:

Code: [Select]
I no longer play Destiny and no longer have to concern my self
with maintaining parity between aiming mechanics of the two
games. My very latest settings are at the top, and the old ones
are at the bottom to preserve them in archives.

Mouse used is Logitech G502s connected to Xim4 with 20160405 stable firmware.

MOUSE
DPI: 6400, at 500Hz polling

GAME
Horiz/Vert sensitivity: 100/100
Aim Technique: Exponential Ramp
Aim Assist: 50
Ana scope relative sensitivity: 100
Widowmaker scope relative sensitivity: 100

HIP
Sensitivity: 7.5
Boost: no boost
Steady-Aim: off
YXRatio: 1.0
Ballistic curve: no curve
Turn-Assist: my emote wheel keybinding

ADS (for Widowmaker and Ana)
Delay: 100ms
Sensitivity: 3.0
  - This is 41% of Hip sens to maintain 1:1 pixel ratio between hip/ads aiming
Boost: no boost
Steady-Aim: off
YXRatio: 1.0
Ballistic curve: no curve
Turn-Assist: my emote wheel keybinding
Translator: Use Hip Translator

KEY BINDINGS
Tab - lobby
Caps Lock - ability 1 (sprint, hook..)
Shift - emote wheel
Alt - Weapon Switch (primary key bindings)
Space - Jump
Q - ability 2 (grenade, poison...)
E - melee
W - forward
A - left
S - backward
D - right
R - reload
C - crouch
F - ultimate ability (primary bindings)
Enter - ultimate ability (secondary bindings)
Pause/Break - Open Overwatch Menu
Esc - PS, console menu
Left Click - shoot
Right Click - aim down sights
Mouse Wheel - weapon switch (secondary key bindings)


OLD SETTINGS START HERE
Unfortunately Overwatch feels much different from Destiny or Titanfall, it's a game with a steep exponential acceleration curve and the look mechanic feels different. It feels very floaty, best I can describe it is: "like your sniper scope is glazing over a glass surface".

First breakthrough came from gunit2004 here[1] with a curve that cuts off at 40 which allowed him to retain maximum horizontal turning speed at high mouse speed without tripping the turn limit which happened to stay below the threshold of in-game timed acceleration feature.

Further experiments in that thread gave me an insight that I might tone down this effect with a decelerated curve plus extra sensitivity. It worked for me, floaty feeling was reduced and the game feels sharper. Hip curve:
Code: [Select]
>>> XIM4 [Mouse Ballistics] START PASTE >>>
X4MB:AAAAGgA0AC4AMAAwAC4AMgAwADEANQAxADEAMgAwAAQJDRIXGyAkKS4yNztARUlOUldc:X4MB
<<< XIM4 END PASTE <<<
Curve will look like the equivalent of this image in your Xim manager. If you would like to test this curve divide your current sensitivity by 0.46 as your starting point and use the result as your new sensitivity. I can't say if DPI below 5600 will feel as good because enormous sensitivity settings might make the pointer skip too much:


I also assigned 8200DPI as the second setting of my mouse profile for when I want to play Lucio, Reaper or Tanks, but 99% of the time I play hitscan precision characters; Widowmaker, Ana, McCree...  so this is just a small bonus, nothing special if your mouse doesn't support such on-the-fly changes.

GAME
Horiz/Vert sensitivity: 100/100
Aim Technique: Exponential Ramp
Aim Assist: 0
Widowmaker scope relative sensitivity: 100
Ana scope relative sensitivity: 100

HIP
Sensitivity: 15
Boost: 300
Ballistic curve: see image and code above

ADS (for Widowmaker and Ana)
Sensitivity: 10
Boost: 150
Ballistic curve: see image and code above
Translator: Use Hip Translator

References:
1. http://xim4.com/community/index.php?topic=47049.msg569044#msg569044
« Last Edit: 09:13 AM - 02/11/17 by humanfemale »

Offline OBsIV

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Re: Overwatch: floatiness, sniping and my setup
« Reply #1 on: 11:46 AM - 07/15/16 »
Thanks for the write up. In summary, it looks like your curve remains linear but disallows aim to exceed the point where the game's time-based acceleration kicks in.

Do you feel turn speed is still fast enough like this?
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Offline humanfemale

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Re: Overwatch: floatiness, sniping and my setup
« Reply #2 on: 12:06 PM - 07/15/16 »
I was just inserting a little explanation about that, for gunit2004's breakthrough.

At maximum mouse speed the turn seems as fast as when I make one revolution with the analog stick with it fully pressed. It definitely feels fast enough even if I'm wrong about that. But when I hold the analog stick fully pressed for multiple revolutions it seems like it starts turning faster and faster and if my eyes are not deceiving me I am guessing this is where timed acceleration kicks in.

Offline OBsIV

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Re: Overwatch: floatiness, sniping and my setup
« Reply #3 on: 12:13 PM - 07/15/16 »
Are you using the SA firmware that remaps Ballistics to 100% maximum aim speed rather than 125%?
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Offline humanfemale

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Re: Overwatch: floatiness, sniping and my setup
« Reply #4 on: 12:22 PM - 07/15/16 »
I think that is only present in experimental, maybe even a new RC.  But I am at stable from April 20160405 so definitely still 125%.
« Last Edit: 06:03 PM - 07/15/16 by humanfemale »

Offline OBsIV

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Re: Overwatch: floatiness, sniping and my setup
« Reply #5 on: 02:34 PM - 07/15/16 »
No matter what happens with the Steady Aim experiment, I'd like to switch it to 100% scale in a future firmware since I think it makes a lot more sense then the way it is right now.
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Offline Od1n

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Re: Overwatch: floatiness, sniping and my setup
« Reply #6 on: 04:42 PM - 07/15/16 »
No matter what happens with the Steady Aim experiment, I'd like to switch it to 100% scale in a future firmware since I think it makes a lot more sense then the way it is right now.

yes i agree, the curve itself is much easier to understand in its effect if its at 100% rather than 125%
especially when thinking about newcomers to the product that read about curve configs posted here
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Offline AKs0n-

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Re: Overwatch: floatiness, sniping and my setup
« Reply #7 on: 01:03 AM - 07/16/16 »
@OBsIV

TRUE or FALSE


If your Max Acceleration / Max Analog movement cuts off at 46.0
1) Do you not in fact Lose 54% of your Analog range of movement due to an excessively steep curving reaching the threshold Cut Off mark more than twice as fast being set to 100 end Ballistics?
2) Do you not in fact lose Precision Aim due to the effect of the steep curve itself?
3) Do you not in fact lose drastic portions of max Turn Radius if trying to overcompensate such a Curve by lowering Sensitivity?
4) Do you not in fact keep both 360 degree Turn Radius itself as well as Precision Aim finding the XIM4 blinking Cutoff Point and setting linear to such? [ Edit: By utilizing a higher Sensitivity 30~50 ]

Final Question [ If you Answer and Explain 1-4 ]
Does it not in fact make sense to Update each game that's XIM4 supported to have the End of Ballistics matching that perticular game's Cutoff Point giving players 100% full range of Analog control using thier Mouse so that they dont have to become Ballistics experts wasting thier time instead of just playing the game?
« Last Edit: 02:04 AM - 07/16/16 by AKs0n- »

Offline antithesis

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Re: Overwatch: floatiness, sniping and my setup
« Reply #8 on: 01:47 AM - 07/16/16 »
Correction to the above...

a. If your Max Acceleration / Max Analog movement cuts off at 46.0

If your red light stops blinking at 46.0.

b. Do you not in fact Lose 54% of your Analog range of movement due to an excessively steep curving reaching the threshold Cut Off mark more than twice as fast being set to 100 end Ballistics?

By "excessively steep curve" he means the default 1:1 or 45 degree curve.

c. Do you not in fact lose Precision Aim due to the effect of the steep curve itself?

Again, steep curve = 1:1 default curve.

d. Do you not in fact lose drastic portions of max Turn Radius if trying to overcompensate such a Curve by lowering Sensitivity?

That one has me lost. What do you mean by "max Turn Radius"?

Using a deceleration curve is largely the same thing as reducing sensitivity, according to the basic ballistics information on the forum.

e. Do you not in fact keep both 360 degree Turn Radius itself as well as Precision Aim finding the XIM4 blinking Cutoff Point and setting linear to such?

I think he means if we set the Ballistics Curve to end at the point where you remove the red blinking light e.g 46, is turn distance to perform a 360 the same as setting the Curve to end at 100?
That's the only way I can equate everything above the cut-off point as being "wasted movement".



AKs0n, I'm trying to help here, not argue with you. I'm curious about this stuff too, but we need to find the right questions to ask.

==================================

TLDR;

The observation is simply this -

If you set a curve to end where the maximum turn speed red light stops appearing (46 in Overwatch, 56 in Destiny), it's almost impossible to get the Xim to display a red light, regardless of DPI, sensitivity or hand speed.

If you set a curve to the default 1:1, you can still make it red light even at a low sens of 2, IF you move your hand fast enough.

What does that mean? Should the ballistics curve end at the red light cut-off (46 in Overwatch, 56 in Destiny, XX in all other games) instead of 100?

Does that pretty much cover the nutshell version AKs0n?

==================================

I tested this myself using the newest HID firmware update and the above observation is true (can't red light if curve is set to cut-off point), but I found that I had to move the mouse much further and it took a longer time to perform a 360 degree turn at the red light cut-off point, rather than using the default 1:1 curve. Overwatch took twice the physical mouse movement distance to pull a 360 at 46 than 100. Destiny took 3 times as long to perform a 360 if applying the same observation and ending the HIP curve at 56 versus using a curve that accelerates above the default 1:1 curve.


Based on the Overwatch deceleration curve, AKs0n seems to think the entire ballistics system is broken and that all movement above the red light cut-off point (e.g at 50 on a curve) achieves nothing but the loss of precision and wasted movement, therefore the end-point of a Ballistics Curve should equal the red light cut-off point for better control over the true full range of movement.

I contest that ending a curve at the red light cut-off (e.g at 50 on a curve) means we need to move the mouse further and takes longer to perform a 360 in-game (360 is arbitrary, call it Point A to Point B). That's easily measurable and seems to imply that the red light cut-off point on a curve is not the max turn speed and the current ballistics system is working as intended. For absolute clarity, we're talking the point on a curve that it's no longer possible to generate a red light. We know that the red light indicates max turn speed.

I don't care who is right or wrong, I just want to understand this stuff better. Is there anything of value we can extrapolate from looking at where the red light stops blinking along a Ballistics Curve?



For the record, Overwatch does seem to feel better with humanfemale's deceleration curve to wash off the timed acceleration (tested using G303 @ 12K DPI & FK2 @ 3.2K), and it just so happens that point seems to be at the red light cut-off, hence this whole debate. But note the recommendation of increasing sensitivity x 1.8 to 2 - how do we interpret those settings? Adding sensitivity to a deceleration curve would seem to bring movement closer to the default 1:1 curve.

Using the same type of curve in other games, like Destiny, doesn't achieve the same outcome - it noticeably slows turn speed, which implies that Overwatch is an outlier and not the benchmark due to its timed acceleration, and that the same red light observation can't be applied to other games.

Interesting stuff...I hope I covered that pretty well, AKs0n will let me know if I got it wrong.
« Last Edit: 03:27 AM - 07/16/16 by antithesis »

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Offline AKs0n-

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Re: Overwatch: floatiness, sniping and my setup
« Reply #9 on: 03:33 AM - 07/16/16 »
AKs0n, I'm trying to help here, not argue with you. I'm curious about this stuff too, but we need to find the right questions to ask.
Are you OBsIV....
Keep watching that blinking red light. Ooh...there it goes now...pretty!
Updating the XIM4 w/ perma-blinking, removing the ability to fix the broken Ballistics, all while trolling the forums on an alt account?

Is that the "correct" question or do you wish to continue speaking for OBsIV nonstop from Thread to Thread?
It's very easy for him to correct anything Ive said and explain to myself and others reading vanquishing such behavior.

OBsIV is that you?  TRUE or FALSE
« Last Edit: 03:39 AM - 07/16/16 by AKs0n- »

Offline antithesis

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Re: Overwatch: floatiness, sniping and my setup
« Reply #10 on: 03:37 AM - 07/16/16 »
Updating the XIM4 w/ perma-blinking, removing the ability to fix the broken Ballistics, all while trolling the forums on an alt account?

Is that the "correct" question or do you wish to continue speaking for OBsIV nonstop from Thread to Thread?
It's very easy for him to correct anything Ive said and explain to myself and others reading vanquishing such behavior.

OBsIV is that you?

You sir have proven once again you are in fact an idiot.

You're the one who brought our debate over to this thread, not me. I thought it was inappropriate to derail humanfemale's thread, but given you're happy to do it, I'll follow the discussion with you.

I was going to ask similar questions of OBsIV because I want to know the answers too. But you're asking loaded questions, I'm smoothing them out to follow the discussion.

This is all about the blinking red light, which is not the same thing as "max acceleration / max analog movement". A blinking light is tangible, "max acceleration / max analog movement" is ambiguous.

"Steep curve" generally means "well above 1:1" similar to Dr Ballistics curves, whereas you're saying that 1:1 is already a steep curve above the true ballistics line. Asking the question as you stated it will result in a different response.

As for "max turn radius", please elaborate on what you mean, because it's again ambiguous.

Am I wrong with the TLDR summary? Let's keep this to observable facts, not opinion, which you seem only to happy to espouse as supporting evidence that the Xim's ballistics system is broken and you're the only person to figure it out.

I apologize that your XIM4 "experts" are all busted and caught Red Handed totally ignoring the XIM4 blinking max analog movement cutoff point. The fact that some of yall even resort to acting like 12yr old children playing make believe just to save face is rather pathetic. Keep up the good work. Try fooling some other sucker with that nonsense.
 
Stay full retard. Im out.

Conspiracy theorist much?
« Last Edit: 04:11 AM - 07/16/16 by antithesis »

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Offline AKs0n-

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Re: Overwatch: floatiness, sniping and my setup
« Reply #11 on: 03:50 AM - 07/16/16 »
OBsIV just keeps speaking on his alt account. Did I request an
anti-thesis
Quote
the·sis
ˈTHēsis/Submit
noun
noun: thesis; plural noun: theses
1.
a statement or theory that is put forward as a premise to be maintained or proved.

synonyms:   theory, contention, argument, line of argument, proposal, proposition, idea, claim, premise, assumption, hypothesis, postulation, supposition

You really are an anti-thesis aint ya. But are you really OBsIV or is he allowed to answer and explain my questions himself w/o your own interjection flushing them away?

« Last Edit: 03:54 AM - 07/16/16 by AKs0n- »

Offline antithesis

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Re: Overwatch: floatiness, sniping and my setup
« Reply #12 on: 03:51 AM - 07/16/16 »
You really are an anti-thesis aint ya.

Indeed I am.

You need two sides for healthy debate, I just happen to be on the opposing side of this one.


Again, I'll boil it down to this simple query...

The observation is simply this -

If you set a curve to end where the maximum turn speed red light stops appearing (46 in Overwatch, 56 in Destiny), it's almost impossible to get the Xim to display a red light, regardless of DPI, sensitivity or hand speed.

If you set a curve to the default 1:1, you can still make it red light even at a low sens of 2, IF you move your hand fast enough.

What does that mean? Should the ballistics curve end at the red light cut-off (46 in Overwatch, 56 in Destiny, XX in all other games) instead of 100?

Does that pretty much cover the nutshell version AKs0n?

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Offline AKs0n-

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Re: Overwatch: floatiness, sniping and my setup
« Reply #13 on: 04:10 AM - 07/16/16 »
You really are an anti-thesis aint ya.

Indeed I am.

Again, I'll boil it down to this simple query...

Does that pretty much cover the nutshell version AKs0n?
You really are OBsIV. He cant be allowed to answer such questions. He never does. You just continue to speak as if on his "anti-thesis" behalf making sure such questions are never answered. Littering Threads w/ "anti-thesis" spam.

Yeah... I think that covers all Ive read on your behalf.

Offline antithesis

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Re: Overwatch: floatiness, sniping and my setup
« Reply #14 on: 04:16 AM - 07/16/16 »
You really are OBsIV. He cant be allowed to answer such questions. He never does. You just continue to speak as if on his "anti-thesis" behalf making sure such questions are never answered. Littering Threads w/ "anti-thesis" spam.

Yeah... I think that covers all Ive read on your behalf.

Dude, I want to know the answers too, but your questions as posed are to fulfil a conspiracy theory agenda that there's something wrong with the Xim based on the one and only game you've ever played on it.

Let's keep the emotion and opinion out of this and stick to observations and how we're supposed to interpret them. Making it as succinct and clear as possible, which you haven't been able to do with ambiguous terminology, is the best way for OBsIV to answer the question.

Does the TLDR version cover the basics of what you want to know?

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