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R.I.P. Call of Duty - was nice knowing you  (Read 2866 times)

Online mist4fun

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Re: R.I.P. Call of Duty - was nice knowing you
« Reply #15 on: 02:09 PM - 03/04/10 »
Make sure to read the second pdf document, nature of dispute. point 2.
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Offline Tonester

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Re: R.I.P. Call of Duty - was nice knowing you
« Reply #16 on: 07:58 PM - 03/04/10 »
Yea - saw that this morning and read the document.  I sold all of my ATVI stock - I have a feeling this isn't going to end well for anyone.

Predictions?

ATVI pays a @#$%-ton of money to these guys - that I'm almost 100% will happen.

ATVI definitely keeps Call of Duty.  I'm curious as to what happens with the Modern Warfare rights and royalties associated with IW tech.

Offline SkippyFX

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Re: R.I.P. Call of Duty - was nice knowing you
« Reply #17 on: 12:16 AM - 03/05/10 »
Even though they rushed the game, screwed the spawns, and made the game unbalenced . II still love the game no matter what anyone says

Offline Boddiebagger

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Re: R.I.P. Call of Duty - was nice knowing you
« Reply #18 on: 04:44 AM - 03/05/10 »
Even though they rushed the game, screwed the spawns, and made the game unbalenced . II still love the game no matter what anyone says

Its not the spawns! Trust me, the spawn problems are a side effect of maps with bad flow. With the maps they have, its impossible to to make a good spawn system w/o having to delaye the spawn in waves. Its very hard to explain with out giving you a visual. I think these spawn are pretty good, yes there are games with better spawns, but different maps to.

What boddiebagger calls losing a gun fight means, killing the opposing team 3 times over and dying once.

Offline Don

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Re: R.I.P. Call of Duty - was nice knowing you
« Reply #19 on: 01:01 PM - 03/05/10 »
Even though they rushed the game, screwed the spawns, and made the game unbalenced . II still love the game no matter what anyone says
Its not the spawns! Trust me, the spawn problems are a side effect of maps with bad flow. With the maps they have, its impossible to to make a good spawn system w/o having to delaye the spawn in waves. Its very hard to explain with out giving you a visual. I think these spawn are pretty good, yes there are games with better spawns, but different maps to.

You can make the spawn system work to your advantage quite easily.  IMO, one of the things that really messes it up is the dynamic speed of players.  When a teammate with LW & Marathon rushes into where the other team is spawning, it prompts the spawn system to switch.  If teammates are on the other side of a smaller map, like Scrapyard, they might find enemies spawning behind them for lack of a safer place according to the spawn system's many variables.  I agree that the maps don't seem to be designed with fair spawning in mind, but an active team effort to control the other team's spawns can effectively fix most of these problems. 
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Offline PhilAshio

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Re: R.I.P. Call of Duty - was nice knowing you
« Reply #20 on: 02:27 PM - 03/05/10 »
Even though they rushed the game, screwed the spawns, and made the game unbalenced . II still love the game no matter what anyone says

Its not the spawns! Trust me, the spawn problems are a side effect of maps with bad flow. With the maps they have, its impossible to to make a good spawn system w/o having to delaye the spawn in waves. Its very hard to explain with out giving you a visual. I think these spawn are pretty good, yes there are games with better spawns, but different maps to.

I don't know. To me it seems like if you just got killed, spawned, took two steps forward, and got killed by a dude who just spawned right behind you in FFA on Wasteland. Yeah, it probably is the spawn system.

Offline Tonester

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Re: R.I.P. Call of Duty - was nice knowing you
« Reply #21 on: 03:24 PM - 03/05/10 »
As someone who has done some game development, I'd like to propose some devil's advocate remarks in defense of Infinity Ward, Treyarch, etc.

Spawn systems are hard to do.

You can have "static" spawn which are placed in a map by the map developer.  These can be moved around during play testing.  However, it doesn't matter how you do them, how you randomize them, how many you have, etc - it is only a matter of time before it gets released to the internet with a little map showing where all of them are.  People develop strategies around "locking down" certain ones as chokepoints and it is no fun.

It looks like COD has tried to adopt a more "dynamic" approach to spawns which are kind of based on static nodes (which don't move) but then the player is randomly spawned in some area kind of close to the node.  It probably looks at the node, and then starts scanning surrounding areas for an available spot and puts you there.  It APPEARS they take into account proximity of teammates and enemies, but it seems to be more of a majority rules.  I.E.  Most of my crappy spawns have been because I stick to the outsides of maps, go the long routes, and try to out flank my opponents while the rest of my lemming team keeps running to their death.  As such, I tend to be close to the enemy, behind their enemy lines, far away from my teammates and so the enemy spawns near me quite a bit.

Spawning is MUCH easier to do in objective-based gameplay because you have additional data to work with - the objectives themselves, who owns them, etc.  Most of the worst spawn issues happen in deathmatch games (especially FFA).

In short, there really isn't an elegant solution that works in any game... there are always issues.  I think the point that others make is that the FLOW OF THE MAPS is really what makes or breaks the spawn system since there is no elegant spawn solution.

Offline Tonester

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Re: R.I.P. Call of Duty - was nice knowing you
« Reply #22 on: 03:29 PM - 03/05/10 »
To follow up with another example that goes with the comment a couple of posts above:

If you have a team of snipers all camping 1 side of a map, and neither team gets far into the enemy lines, you'll almost never have a bad spawn.  The reason is that one of the criteria for where you spawn is based on a combination of these static loose nodes and then spawning next to a teammate in that area.

If you have a teammate deep in the enemy lines and a couple of you get picked off by snipers, you'll start to spawn near that teammate who is alive... behind the enemy.

I think what many people complain about is the fact that the spawn system isn't very smart.  I mean, the criteria for picking a spawn works the vast majority of the time.  However, you always have that case or two where it just makes no sense and you would think that the spawn logic would have some routine that see this and override the spawn choice and go, "@#$%!  That would be stupid to spawn you there!"... like some sort of spawn veto logic.  The simple/quick logic works 90% of the time, but I think there needs to be another routine that checks it and makes sure and then vetoes if necessary.

Offline Don

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Re: R.I.P. Call of Duty - was nice knowing you
« Reply #23 on: 12:18 PM - 03/06/10 »
To follow up with another example that goes with the comment a couple of posts above:

If you have a team of snipers all camping 1 side of a map, and neither team gets far into the enemy lines, you'll almost never have a bad spawn.  The reason is that one of the criteria for where you spawn is based on a combination of these static loose nodes and then spawning next to a teammate in that area.

If you have a teammate deep in the enemy lines and a couple of you get picked off by snipers, you'll start to spawn near that teammate who is alive... behind the enemy.

I think what many people complain about is the fact that the spawn system isn't very smart.  I mean, the criteria for picking a spawn works the vast majority of the time.  However, you always have that case or two where it just makes no sense and you would think that the spawn logic would have some routine that see this and override the spawn choice and go, "@#$%!  That would be stupid to spawn you there!"... like some sort of spawn veto logic.  The simple/quick logic works 90% of the time, but I think there needs to be another routine that checks it and makes sure and then vetoes if necessary.

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