Let's talk about Sub-Configs. (Switchers) shall we?

[RML]

I know it's been randomly hit on here and there, but I haven't been able to find a thread that really discusses the issues we're experiencing with Sub Configs and XIM4. I'm going to offer my "Work Around" that I believe works, although I've only tested it with Destiny so far. However, It would be nice to hear what others are doing to combat this problem, and it would be REALLY nice to hear what OBs and companies thoughts are. So here's what I'm talking about.

There's currently an issue with the way Sub-Configs cascade. An example, I'm playing Destiny. I want to use a Sub Config for the Sparrow and another Sub-Config for Sprinting, etc. to help with movement. So, I build my Sub Configs. and assign them activation keys. Sparrow works GREAT, until, I accidently press the activation key for the Sprint Sub Config. while my Sparrow sub config is active. Then, as soon as I let go of the Sprint button, I'm defaulted back to the Primary config, instead of the Sparrow Sub Config. Hopefully, everyone can see why this can be an issue.

Luckily, after many hrs. of trial and error. I believe I've found a work around. I would still love to hear what others are doing and thoughts from admins please.

I've discovered that if you use every one of the sub configs, then only the last window will default you back to HIP when used in conjunction with the other Sub Configs. For example, here's how I do this with Destiny.


- Primary "HIP" Config.
- Sub Config "ADS"
- Sub Config "Sprint"
- Sub Config "Sparrow"
- Sub Config "Menu"
- Sub Config "HIP" (copy of primary)

If all of the Sub Configs are used up, as I have done above. Then they all should work individually and the only Sub Config that will over ride them is the last one, "HIP". I assigned a random keystroke for the "HIP' sub config that I would never use. This way I never accidentally activate it.

The draw back is, I cannot utilize any of the other sub configs until I back out of the one I'm in. This means I wouldn't be able to use this configuration for a game like BF4. If I used this with a Tank in BF4 then I will NOT be able to ADS while utilizing my Tank sub config. The only way I can see this working is if I use a separate Primary BF4 config (just for Tank) that I could ADS off of.

So, thoughts? Idea's on how to fix this issue? Would it be possible to have a check box (or something) for each sub config that would allow us to chose how it cascaded, IE back to HIP or another Sub? What if we could assign one sub config to another, is it do able, would it work?

My configuration above works for Destiny, but what are YOU guys doing to make this work with a game like BF4?

[OBsIV]

What would your expectation be as to show it should work?

[RML]

What would your expectation be as to show it should work?

Honestly, I guess, in a way, I'm still trying to figure that out myself. That's why I said "Let's talk" I'm sure it's a bit of a daunting task for you.

I personally would like to be able to choose how each sub cascades, or maybe be able to assign one to another.

I don't really mind making multiple Primary's you gave us plenty of extra slots to do so. The issue to me is, what's really the point of Subs if we still have to do this? It kind of defeats the whole purpose.

[RML]

OBsIV, how about this?

Have Subs cascade back to other subs but add a home button that can be used just incase someone stacks too many sub configs and forgets where they're at.

Use my Destiny settings above for example:

Let's say I'm in the Sparrow Sub but I accidentally hit the wrong button and activate another "toggle" sub but I'm not sure which one. So, instead of chasing my tail trying to cascade back to my Sparrow sub. I simply push the button I've assigned to activate my Destiny config "Primary" and it takes me back to hip. This would rarely ever be needed, but it's there "just in case".

Edit: After further thought I suppose you could already do this by toggling primary configs. What are the biggest concerns with having Subs cascade to each other?

[killawink64]

I can see how this would be helpful, especially for nav users. I use the same setup as you do, using the last subconfig to return me to hip for bf4.

Hip                  F3                (toggle)
Ads                 rmb               (hold) ->      inherent buttons
most Vehicles  F4                 (toggle) ->   do not inherent buttons
turret              F5                 (toggle) ->   do not inherent buttons
jets                 F6                 (toggle) ->   do not inherent buttons
return to hip    E                  (hold) ->      inherent buttons

I use my Function keys for the few games I play, so it isn't a big deal to me. I also bound my return to hip to key E and hold, so when I get out of the tank im in hip. I also use this if im in the wrong config and need to reset (forget where i am). Also no turn assist config (I avoid vehicles until TA comes out).

For destiny, I use my sprint for the sparrow as well.

Hip                    F8                  (toggle)
ADS                  rmb                 (hold)              inherent buttons
sprint/sparrow   shift                (hold)              inherent buttons

BF Hardline

Hip                     F1                  (toggle)
ADS                   rmb                 (hold)            inherent buttons
vehicles             F2                    (toggle)        do not inherent buttons
return to hip      E                     (hold)            inherent buttons

I don't have a solution, I just end up hitting the sub config activator if I forget where I am. Also the xim will display the lights for a moment to let you know what config you are in. So if i am in bf4, it stays a solid green. When I ads, it will blink to green momentarily. When I activate my vehicles it goes red. You can tell if you go in or out because activating the config will change to the corresponding sub config file color (yellow, green, red, purple, blue, turquoise), any time you exit that sub config it blinks yellow (hip config). This only works if you have "enable activation lights".

My biggest issue really is the lack of turn assist, and no modifier button (being able to use the same first 5 function keys for different games using shift, alt, ctrl) but thats another thread.   

[RML]

^ I like your idea of how to utilize the last sub config. it makes more sense then mine, which was pretty much AVOID it! You've basically made your own home key. Nice!

I do use the lights to stay with my subs, but we all know there are times when you get screwed up and you forgot to look. We also have to consider the fact that some people might not want to see flashing lights all the time.

[killawink64]

That's true. I was thinking maybe adding a link feature, so you could use a hold sub config and then it would return you to your last used subconfig. I dunno, just tossing an idea out there. This would probably be in the coding work, I am not an expert.

[RML]

Ha, Now I remember why I assigned my "return to hip" key to an unused button. It's just another button I accidentally hit that takes me out of my Sub. I did re-assign it to F1 which is my Destiny activation key. But I'll never need it unless the layout changes and we can cascade sub configs on top of each other, without defaulting back to Hip when doing so.

Can someone please explain to me why we can't overlay Subs? Maybe if we understand the reasoning behind this decision we can offer better ideas. I understand the theory that NOT ALOT of users get this in depth with their XIM4. But with games like Destiny and the BF series these features are becoming more and more important. I believe there are A lot more users that are either currently struggling with this feature or just don't know how to implement it. Either way, Subs are HIGHLY needed for Two of the Biggest FPS shooters out there. Please, let's optimize the tools you gave us. The way it's currently implemented is not optimal and NOT user friendly.

As far as users go, SPEAK UP people or tell us why Subs should continue to be used in the manner that they are currently implemented!

EDIT: BTW, here's yet another example of why I would like this chg. I've been messing around with Pro's idea of using a Sub config with the fire button (thanks to monkey for bringing it up). The idea is to use slower sensitivity while firing. This actually works quite well because it allows you the ability to utilize a sensitivity that's typically higher then you're use to, in order to acquire your target. Then, when you press the fire button (on target) it slows your speed so you don't over aim.

I would like to be able to set this up so that it only works with ADS. Currently, it would effect the fire button for the primary and every other sub as well.


EDIT 2: How difficult would it be to give us "Blocks" of sub configs. Basically it would be like smaller versions of primary's. Obviously this would require more memory but then we could stack subs together without affecting other subs. For example, I could use a sub for Tank and another sub for Tank ADS. The activation key for Tank ADS would only be accessible through the Tank sub. Maybe have a block 'A' selection and a block 'B' selection. Block 'A' is for Tank and Tank ADS, Block 'B' is for Turret and turret ADS then I still have another Sub left for the Jet/Heli. I would rather have Subs act as mini primary's and have fewer "Actual" Primary's, then to have Subs behave the way they currently do. You guys have put ALOT of work into making Sub configs what they are, and we highly appreciate what you've done. Which is why you should take the time to maximize their potential.

[Dale]

please fix existing features before adding new ones.

[RML]

please fix existing features before adding new ones.

This is an existing feature, so, Thanks for your support! 

[RML]

The Problem with Subs...



My solution!


Thoughts 

[mist4fun]

I don't think this is how it works. We changed this when people had issues with this scenario playing Titanfall. Holding RMB/trying to activate the ADS setting in a forward setting page will not send you to the ADS setting, you remain in the forward setting.

[mist4fun]

On the image that shows how you would like it to work, are the tank and turret settings using their own ads setting each or are they just using the same tank and turret settings?

[RML]

So there's simply no ADS for tank or turret then. That makes sense based off of how this works with Destiny for me. I was going off of what some others have said about BF4.

So, ideas on how to fix this? I would still like to see it work as I described, IMO that would be optimal and make it more user friendly. We really need to be able to use at least one sub within another for ADS.

On the image that shows how you would like it to work, are the tank and turret settings using their own ads setting each or are they just using the same tank and turret settings?

They would each have their own. I remember machine gun turrets behaving quite differently then tank turrets.

[roads]

Sorry I only read the first posting as I am not much interested in suggesting changes when so little is done (yeah I know IOS) .
I suggest that there is no primary config.

In this setup
- Primary "HIP" Config.
- Sub Config "ADS"
- Sub Config "Sprint"
- Sub Config "Sparrow"
- Sub Config "Menu"
- Sub Config "HIP" (copy of primary)

except ADS which is only a change in sensitivity , all subconfigs are primary configs in the given situation. So they should behave the same way as the primary configs. Why should a Sprint config behave otherwise than the primary one when pressing ADS?
The primary config must be replaced by the subconfig that is selected. Rotate them.