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Let's talk about Sub-Configs. (Switchers) shall we?  (Read 12072 times)

Offline mist4fun

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Re: Let's talk about Sub-Configs. (Switchers) shall we?
« Reply #15 on: 02:20 PM - 06/07/15 »
Sorry I only read the first posting as I am not much interested in suggesting changes when so little is done (yeah I know IOS) .
I suggest that there is no primary config.

In this setup
- Primary "HIP" Config.
- Sub Config "ADS"
- Sub Config "Sprint"
- Sub Config "Sparrow"
- Sub Config "Menu"
- Sub Config "HIP" (copy of primary)

except ADS which is only a change in sensitivity , all subconfigs are primary configs in the given situation. So they should behave the same way as the primary configs. Why should a Sprint config behave otherwise than the primary one when pressing ADS?
The primary config must be replaced by the subconfig that is selected. Rotate them.

I'm not understanding you roads, isn't that how it works now?

So there's simply no ADS for tank or turret then. That makes sense based off of how this works with Destiny for me. I was going off of what some others have said about BF4.

So, ideas on how to fix this? I would still like to see it work as I described, IMO that would be optimal and make it more user friendly. We really need to be able to use at least one sub within another for ADS.

On the image that shows how you would like it to work, are the tank and turret settings using their own ads setting each or are they just using the same tank and turret settings?

They would each have their own. I remember machine gun turrets behaving quite differently then tank turrets.

Right now if you have two settings assigned to the same activation key and it will only switch to the one that's forward, not behind. For example let's say you have RMB bound to ADS and also Tank ADS. Your setting pages look like this: Hip->ADS->Tank->Tank ADS. If you are in your Tank setting and press RMB then you will be put into your Tank ADS. The problem is when you release or toggle RMB you are returned to Hip instead of your Tank setting. So what would be more flexible?

1) Having the ability to tell a forward setting to return to a specific setting when finished
2) Having forward settings return to the previous setting
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Offline roads

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Re: Let's talk about Sub-Configs. (Switchers) shall we?
« Reply #16 on: 02:37 PM - 06/07/15 »
Quote
I'm not understanding you roads, isn't that how it works now?

No it is not. If you switch to a subconfig everything jumps back to the primary config if you press and release ADS. Same happens with andother subconfig instead ADS.

Here is the example from the first post:

Quote
Sparrow works GREAT, until, I accidently press the activation key for the Sprint Sub Config. while my Sparrow sub config is active. Then, as soon as I let go of the Sprint button, I'm defaulted back to the Primary config,

Its not cascading we need as cascading meens down the ladder and back up again. The subconfig needs to get the primary config when active.

In RMLs example Sparrow should be the primary config when selected. When he presses the sprint config that sprint config should get the primary config. In both ADS press/release would be safe is it would return to the currently active primary config (sparrow or sprint) AND NOT THE PRIMARY CONFIG AS IT IS NOW.


PRIMARY / ADS
subcnfig1 waiting to get primary
subconfig2 waiting to get primary
and so on
Crusade atm: none

Offline mist4fun

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Re: Let's talk about Sub-Configs. (Switchers) shall we?
« Reply #17 on: 02:53 PM - 06/07/15 »
So you prefer option 2 above, return to the previous setting. RML, is there a disadvantage to this route that you can think of under certain uses?

The consequences of doing it this way means that in order to return to hip you would need to press your config hotkey. Unless Obsiv can make it have memory between switches.

Example: Starting in hip, then toggling tank, then toggling tank ads. To return to hip would you want to toggle tank ads, then toggle tank again? What's the best way to return to hip?
                         
« Last Edit: 02:59 PM - 06/07/15 by mist4fun »
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Offline RML

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Re: Let's talk about Sub-Configs. (Switchers) shall we?
« Reply #18 on: 04:13 PM - 06/07/15 »
Quote
Right now if you have two settings assigned to the same activation key and it will only switch to the one that's forward, not behind. For example let's say you have RMB bound to ADS and also Tank ADS. Your setting pages look like this: Hip->ADS->Tank->Tank ADS

Thank You! That's the info I've been asking for since starting this thread.

I personally still would like to see "settings" as you call them, act as primary's or at least mini-primary's (a one off for ADS).

This:


If you're telling me "Hell NO!"  ;)

Then I guess I'll have to settle for "Return to previous setting" instead of returning to HIP.

The only disadvantage I can see with returning to the previous setting is if I forget where I'm at or I accidentally activate the next forward setting. That is one of the reasons I wanted mini primary's so that there is absolutely no way I can activate another setting like Turret while I'm in my tank. The only thing I want to be able to do in my Tank setting is activate tank ADS or deactivate Tank back to HIP.

Offline mist4fun

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Re: Let's talk about Sub-Configs. (Switchers) shall we?
« Reply #19 on: 05:38 PM - 06/07/15 »
So want each setting to have it's own independent ads. That seems to be the only difference between what we have now and your proposal. I think we would lose setting pages per config if we did that but Obsiv would have to comment on that. So the options to fix this are...

1) Having the ability to tell a forward setting to return to a specific setting when finished
2) Having forward settings return to the previous setting
3) Each setting has it's own ADS page. Switching between setting works as it does now

Your situation should be possible with 1 and 2 but it would be more complicated than 3.
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Offline RML

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Re: Let's talk about Sub-Configs. (Switchers) shall we?
« Reply #20 on: 06:30 PM - 06/07/15 »
So want each setting to have it's own independent ads. That seems to be the only difference between what we have now and your proposal. I think we would lose setting pages per config if we did that but Obsiv would have to comment on that.

That is why I mentioned being able to manipulate a set amount of memory.


1) Having the ability to tell a forward setting to return to a specific setting when finished
2) Having forward settings return to the previous setting
3) Each setting has it's own ADS page. Switching between setting works as it does now

Your situation should be possible with 1 and 2 but it would be more complicated than 3.

3) Is what I would like, this would keep buttons, ballistics, etc. localized to a group of settings. With this scenario I could have HIP and ADS, Tank and ADS, Turret and ADS, Snipe and ADS, etc, etc. and be able to use unique ballistics and such with each setting. Right now I either burn through settings pretty quickly or I have to make multiple primary's for the same game. Does that make sense?

Offline RML

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Re: Let's talk about Sub-Configs. (Switchers) shall we?
« Reply #21 on: 06:13 AM - 06/08/15 »
Another issue I noticed this morning with the current layout.

I know some users are making a separate setting to use while firing. It's a great idea but it only works for HIP fire with the way settings currently move forward and default back to HIP. In effect, here's what they are doing.

HIP > ADS > LMB (activates setting with slower sens to let aim assist take over).

The problem is if you're in ADS and then activate another setting your returned to hip when that second setting is deactivated. So in this scenario, if you do NOT release ADS at the same time (or before) you release the LMB then you'll be switched to HIP while you're still Aiming down the sights. On top of that, when you do release your ADS button you'll be switched to ADS settings while in HIP.

 :'(

Hopefully, you are understanding why I feel so strongly about resolving this. It's such a great feature, it just needs to be optimized.  :)

Offline OBsIV

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Re: Let's talk about Sub-Configs. (Switchers) shall we?
« Reply #22 on: 09:30 AM - 06/08/15 »
#2 of mist's suggestions is the most workable from a development standpoint. Are we talking about if you go from 1 to 5 it would return to 4?
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Offline RML

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Re: Let's talk about Sub-Configs. (Switchers) shall we?
« Reply #23 on: 10:34 AM - 06/08/15 »
1-5, then yes. 1 to 5, NO!

#2 will fix a few of the issues but not all of them.

The only way I know of to fix everything is with my diagram.

Offline RML

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Re: Let's talk about Sub-Configs. (Switchers) shall we?
« Reply #24 on: 07:52 AM - 06/09/15 »
Again, This is the proper way of fixing Settings and how they should work, IMO.

This would resolve every issue that we're experiencing with Settings and optimizes button usage to make it more user friendly, NAV friendly. I know it's a drastic change but please consider it.



At the very least though, please make #2 of mists' list a reality. That would be better then Nothing!

Offline OBsIV

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Re: Let's talk about Sub-Configs. (Switchers) shall we?
« Reply #25 on: 09:42 AM - 06/09/15 »
Thanks for putting this together. I'm ok with taking the incremental approach of #2 first and then see where we can go from there. However, I'm not sure I'm completely clear of #2. What do you mean by "previous"? If you have Settings 1, 2, 3, 4 -- You go from 1 to 2 to 4. Where does 4 return to? To 2? If so, where does 2 return to?
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Offline RML

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Re: Let's talk about Sub-Configs. (Switchers) shall we?
« Reply #26 on: 04:05 PM - 06/09/15 »
1 to 2 to 4, 4 to 2 to 1. I can't think of any scenarios where we would need to stack anymore then two at a time, IE Tank and tank ADS. So it shouldn't be a big deal to use settings in this manner. It won't work as well as my diagram but it will work better then it does now. If you set it up this way it will at least resolve the problem with 1 to 2 to 3 to 1. Which is what is causing theprO's AW settings to not work properly. IE, HIP to ADS to RMB and then back to HIP (leaving you in the HIP ST while still aiming down the sights) instead of HIP to ADS to RMB back to ADS then back to HIP.

However, there still may be a problem with this scenario if you should release the ADS button before you release the RMB. Then what happens? That would put me in HIP with the HIP ST while continuing to fire but what happens when I stop firing? Now I've gone from 1 to 2 to 3, deactivated 2 back to 1 but 3 is still activated. What happens when I deactivate 3? Will it switch me back to 2, the ADS ST while I'm still in HIP?

All these crazy scenarios are why it would be better to just treat Subs like miniature primary's and use my diagram.

But we can give it a go and see what issue's arise with returning to previous, instead of the way it is now. It's still an improvement.

Thanks for your time, I know you just want to do what works the best for everyone and it's not an easy choir by any means. I'm only trying to help, I see ALOT of confusion with the way settings has been applied. I think a lot of people don't even realize how or why their issues are occurring. I thought I was going crazy myself until mist explained how the program currently works. With games coming out like Destiny and the BF series, settings (Sub configs) are something that really need to be simplified and optimized for user friendliness. Because more and more new users will be turning to them.

Thanks again!
« Last Edit: 04:13 PM - 06/09/15 by RML »

Offline OBsIV

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Re: Let's talk about Sub-Configs. (Switchers) shall we?
« Reply #27 on: 04:29 PM - 06/09/15 »
I think it makes sense to have settings return to where they came from (which is #2) so I'll work on getting that into the next drop. It didn't do that before to help simplify things, but, I can see it could cause confusion.
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Offline RML

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Re: Let's talk about Sub-Configs. (Switchers) shall we?
« Reply #28 on: 05:00 PM - 06/09/15 »
Thank You!  :)

Offline PegasusActual

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Re: Let's talk about Sub-Configs. (Switchers) shall we?
« Reply #29 on: 07:56 AM - 06/11/15 »
I don't think this is how it works. We changed this when people had issues with this scenario playing Titanfall. Holding RMB/trying to activate the ADS setting in a forward setting page will not send you to the ADS setting, you remain in the forward setting.
I'm curious, what was this setup supposed to solve for Titanfall. As far as I can tell settings in a single config with multiple setting pages is completely unworkable and requires two separate configs to work. Hip/ADS and TitanHip/TitanADS. All four states are completely different. Your solution was to have one Titan setting handle both ADS and Hip for Titans?

Battlefield would require me to have multiple configs as well, but given all the different vehicles and possibilities I'm just muddling through and using a config with Hip/ADS/Tank. If I never use zoom optics, the tank settings are adequate, as the other optics just click on and off in Hardline at least.

I think the ADS return-from-whence-you-came option will probably work for everything I need it to. And honestly it's much more intuitive than to return to the bottom state. I don't see how the way it works now would be useful in any scenario, but if it is, I'd be curious to hear how.

As for trying to keep it user-friendly, that's great and all, but I don't think that should ever take priority over functionality, especially if said functionality was available in previous XIMs. Ultimately there are a lot of things that console devs get wrong about controls, and we need as many possibilities to work-around their bad ideas as we can get.