XIM4 Skins; Smart Translator Pay to Use; Price Point VOTE NOW!!

[facade]

I'm all for blowing money on stupid **** that I don't need but why are people in a hurry to have to purchase translators now?

[peterkozmd]

Blue i never stated i was in a financial strait and hence couldn't afford it. So to imply that's the reason i'm against this is insulting. If I'm against a higher price or being charged for extras it doesn't mean I'm not able to afford it

I'm just against the prospect of having to pay extra for software support for a product who's goal is to provide support for every game and charges extra for said proiles/ST's whatever you wanna call them.

I'd probably pay more for the hardware if it meant not paying more later on for extras

[singlecoilpickup]

Excellent thread. 10/10.

Would read again.

[Orson]

I'm beginning to LOVE the "nickel and dime" slogan.

Tell me when you buy a car and you need it serviced. Do you just show up and they say thank you and start working on your car.
Or when you buy a computer it gets a little slow, maintenance costs maybe or new parts.
How about when you buy a house, everything is free from that point on right.
Carpet, couches, clothes, dishwashers, tvs, textbooks, consoles, etc.

You're right everything i buy anywhere is expected to work. When it doesn't I DON'T pay any money to have it maintained. Oh wait nope thats wrong. Everything cost money to maintain. The deal is you get a working product at the time of purchase. THATS IT. Sorry charlie.

If money is that hard for you right now, then you should definitely reassess your life and prioritize. You shouldn't be buying anything video game related if paying a premium for QUALITY products is an issue.

Neither myself nor any other supporter of the ST premium has stated that we WANT this to happen. The point we are making is that IF it does happen we are on board.

Your analogy is seriously flawed. You've stated everything that is hardware that needs to be physically replaced, barring the maintenance of PC software and software optimisation of course.

If you're talking about replacing faulty hardware that's covered under a guarantee then get a free replacement.

If you're talking about software that is required to make the unit operate correctly (as advertised, as a 1:1 input translator for FPS games) then that is always provided in incremental updates of the firmware (including STs) for the hardware, no matter what new fps game is released.

We're not talking about optional software to make the the hardware perform a different task.  We're talking about what are analogous to patches and updates.  These come as part of the lifetime updates for the product which has already been purchased.

If your TV stopped receiving TV signals because the firmware was old, you'd not expect to pay to update the receiver, you just download the free update.

If your graphics card needed updating to work with a new game, you'd not expect to pay the GPU manufacturer for a compatible driver. You'd expect the GPU manufacturer to provide a free update.

STs are no different as they get the hardware to work with the game software correctly, as a 1:1 mouse translation device.  Without free updates for new games, the above description of the device would be false advertising.

[peterkozmd]

We're not talking about optional software to make the the hardware perform a different task.  We're talking about what are analogous to patches and updates.  These come as part of the lifetime updates for the product which has already been purchased.



Thanks Orson that paragraph there pretty much sums it up! When you buy this hardware  its implied it will work with all software. The profiles/ST's  are essentially patches which should be free to allow the xim to work as promised. Charging for them is not fair and should be classified as patches to get the product to work as intended. Without said translators the product is essentially not working as was advertised

[Joker76]

Your analogy is seriously flawed. You've stated everything that is hardware that needs to be physically replaced, barring the maintenance of PC software and software optimisation of course.
...
STs are no different as they get the hardware to work with the game software correctly, as a 1:1 mouse translation device.  Without free updates for new games, the above description of the device would be false advertising.

We're not talking about paying for firmware updates. The XIM hardware will presumably receive free firmware updates and free app updates (on PC and Android/iPhone). I think of those things as the 'Operating System' that would normally come with a PC, for instance.

From what I understand, there are (or will be) ways to build translators using ballistics curves, boost, etc. but might require a baseline ST to start with. So, it would be possible for the user to build their own translation. And if they wanted something more effortless and accurate, they could pay for an ST. In this regard I would view STs as software that enhances the capability of the hardware and the base 'Operating System', similar to MS Office.

blueman said it best;

Neither myself nor any other supporter of the ST premium has stated that we WANT this to happen. The point we are making is that IF it does happen we are on board.

[Orson]

Your analogy is seriously flawed. You've stated everything that is hardware that needs to be physically replaced, barring the maintenance of PC software and software optimisation of course.
...
STs are no different as they get the hardware to work with the game software correctly, as a 1:1 mouse translation device.  Without free updates for new games, the above description of the device would be false advertising.

We're not talking about paying for firmware updates. The XIM hardware will presumably receive free firmware updates and free app updates (on PC and Android/iPhone). I think of those things as the 'Operating System' that would normally come with a PC, for instance.

From what I understand, there are (or will be) ways to build translators using ballistics curves, boost, etc. but might require a baseline ST to start with. So, it would be possible for the user to build their own translation. And if they wanted something more effortless and accurate, they could pay for an ST. In this regard I would view STs as software that enhances the capability of the hardware and the base 'Operating System', similar to MS Office.

blueman said it best;
Neither myself nor any other supporter of the ST premium has stated that we WANT this to happen. The point we are making is that IF it does happen we are on board.

Nice snip there Joker.  I see you have conveniently omitted the part that likened updates and patches to XIM firmware updates with the inclusive list of STs.

The whole idea and advertising behind the XIM is for 1:1 mouse translation.  Simply being given the bare bones and to be expected to tweak a generic configuration for the device to 'get close' to that 1:1 without resorting to additional expense is not what the customers are paying for.

STs are an integral part of the firmware, whether they are adjustable or can be changed for a different set of STs on-the-fly is irrelevant.

Game specific STs are simply not optional.  They are essential to make the XIM work as advertised with all current titles.  Without them the XIM cannot perform it's advertised task.  Getting an approximation of a game specific ST is difficult and no one has ever created one with the feel of a properly created ST direct from OBsIV.

Expecting a customer to piss around with a generic configuration for hours or days, just to get something, at best, sub-par, is not what we are paying for.  We are paying for fully working 1:1 mouse translation for every mainstream FPS game released during the lifetime of the product.

You compare STs to software in an operating system that enhance the functionality and precision of the hardware.  This is ridiculous as we are paying for the Smart Translators.  They are not additional software, nor are they optional to get it working better, they are simply preconfigured dial settings that are otherwise unobtainable without the knowledge or lab that OBsIV has painstakingly worked on for years to be able to market his Smart Translators in the guise of a box called a XIM.

[Web-head]

Your analogy is seriously flawed. You've stated everything that is hardware that needs to be physically replaced, barring the maintenance of PC software and software optimisation of course.
...
STs are no different as they get the hardware to work with the game software correctly, as a 1:1 mouse translation device.  Without free updates for new games, the above description of the device would be false advertising.

We're not talking about paying for firmware updates. The XIM hardware will presumably receive free firmware updates and free app updates (on PC and Android/iPhone). I think of those things as the 'Operating System' that would normally come with a PC, for instance.

From what I understand, there are (or will be) ways to build translators using ballistics curves, boost, etc. but might require a baseline ST to start with. So, it would be possible for the user to build their own translation. And if they wanted something more effortless and accurate, they could pay for an ST. In this regard I would view STs as software that enhances the capability of the hardware and the base 'Operating System', similar to MS Office.

blueman said it best;
Neither myself nor any other supporter of the ST premium has stated that we WANT this to happen. The point we are making is that IF it does happen we are on board.

Nice snip there Joker.  I see you conveniently omitted the part that likened updates and patches to XIM firmware updates with the inclusive list of STs.

The whole idea and advertising behind the XIM is for 1:1 mouse translation.  Simply being given the bare bones and be expected to tweak a generic configuration for the device to 'get close' to that 1:1 without resorting to additional expense is not what the customers are paying for.

STs are an integral part of the firmware, whether they are adjustable or can be changed for a different set of STs on-the-fly is irrelevant.

Game specific STs are simply not optional.  They are essential to make the XIM work as advertised with all current titles.  Without them the XIM cannot perform it's advertised task.  Getting an approximation of a game specific ST is difficult and no one has ever created one with the feel of a properly created ST direct from OBsIV.

Expecting a customer to piss around with a generic configuration for hours or days, just to get something, at best, sub-par, is not what we are paying for.  We are paying for fully working 1:1 mouse translation for every mainstream FPS game released during the lifetime of the product.

You compare STs to software in an operating system that enhance the functionality and precision of the hardware. This is ridiculous as we are paying for the Smart Translators.  They are not additional software, nor are they optional to got it working better, they are simply preconfigured dial settings that are otherwise unobtainable without the knowledge or lab that OBsIV has painstakingly worked on for years to be able to market his Smart Translators in the guise of a box called a XIM.

Great post.  /thread

[Orson]

I forgot to mention a point which makes this discussion irrelevant. OBsIV has already stated that ST creation used to take a day per title to complete.  A time consuming process.  Now he states that with the new way that he creates STs in his lab for the XIM4, this time is drasticly reduced.  Why would he ever consider charging us again for STs that are now produced by an increased amount of automation and are created in mere minutes rather than days?

[abc123]

I think ST's should be released for $1 at alpha/beta stages...then free once public

[roads]

I am sure he will calculate ST creation into the XIM price.

[Web-head]

I am sure he will calculate ST creation into the XIM price.

He's obviously not smart enough to do this, and he absolutely needs posters to give him money making ideas, to save him from the impending financial ruin that is the XIM4.

/sarcasm

[singlecoilpickup]

I think ST's should be released for $1 at alpha/beta stages...then free once public

That's a terrible idea because then you won't have a good sized pool of alpha and beta testers. They'll all just wait until public release. It's rare, but there have been broken STs in the past, and not catching that during a beta that people don't want to pay for seems like a great way to create frustration. Additionally, the value of a beta is getting feedback for free, so asking people to pay you to get a product to give you feedback also seems flawed.

[facade]

I think ST's should be released for $1 at alpha/beta stages...then free once public

Not gonna lie, I wouldn't pay to test a translator that may or may not work properly.

[ak-xs]

Why not charge for button binding? i only bind my buttons once for each game, 2-3 times at max maybe if i make a mistake or reach some epiphany about the control scheme. but there must be people who re-bind keys all the time so they should pay more.

hey! what about paying for your hardware to get supported? as new mice and kbs come out, OBsIV is working for free to support them.

OH I KNOW! let's pay for the forum, support here is free after all. we should pay on a post count bases for passive users and per day access for lurkers and regulars.

why not even XIM4 comes with no console support and you then pay more for each console you want supported? that way people who use just one console pay enough but people who use more pay more to be more fair for OBsIV.




shall i go on? is the sarcasm obvious enough already or must i make more stupid suggestions that sound like you want to help the devs but in reality would do 1000 times more damage than help them? i'll make it simple:

CHARGING FOR STs MEANS the XIM TEAM HAS TO SPEND MORE MONEY CREATING THE TOOLS AND SUPPORT THAN WHAT THEY WOULD BE CHARGING, not to mention the impact it would have on sales and its image would cost profit as well