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Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?  (Read 41569 times)

Offline singlecoilpickup

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Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #75 on: 11:08 AM - 03/24/14 »
Yeah, it's just not going to happen because there are, quite simply, bigger fish to fry with much bigger gains for a much wider audience.
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Offline ak-xs

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Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #76 on: 11:09 AM - 03/24/14 »
Ak, the wireless thing is totally different. You're comparing apples to oranges.

No human can feel 4ms. Anyone who thinks they can is kidding themselves. Therefore, I'm going to go ahead and tell people they shouldn't care bout 4ms, but thanks for your concern.

i'm not comparing sh1t. i was saying i thought XIM team's time would be better spent with one thing instead of the other due to effort-result ratios.

i remember some years ago hearing people say something almost equal but instead of '4ms' it was 60fps. now it's largely accepted by most that going north of 60fps has benefits. not because we can see much more than 60fps, but because of small nuances we can feel the existence of without being easy to pinpoint them. (again, for clarity's sake, remember my opinion is the 4ms change should not be done as of now)
soon..

Offline BionicTbag

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Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #77 on: 11:10 AM - 03/24/14 »
As one of the 40-year-old gamers on this forum...  I would welcome every ms of improvement.  I have been thinking about upgrading my monitor to one of the 1ms monitors I see out there just to squeeze out as much lag as possible.   :)

Will it kelp?  Probably not, but it will give me one less thing to blame for sucking.

LOL, then there will only be you to blame = depression of old age :)


i dont know if its possible but it would be cool to have the XIM4 work with 4ms delay for the PS4, i dont want to be hold back just because of the Xbox One4ms more or less isnt that much, but if it can be done then i say why not?if its PS4 4ms + 8ms XIM then its even worse as you miss out 2 refresh frames of the controllersome lost potential imoon the other hand my PS4 feels a lot more responsive with my XIM Edge than my Xbox360 didi dont know if that already is the influence of the PS4 @ 4ms polling over the Xbox360 @ 8ms polling, but im sure there still is room for optimizationif the XIM4 really has a much stronger CPU that is actually capable of doing the BT workaround, then why shouldnt we go to 4ms?the BT workaround is no longer needed, therefore why not use the CPU to do the calculations in half the time?


I really would hope it would work this way!


XIM is special because of the lengths we go to synchronize all your peripherals, console, audio, bluetooth com, etc. so that XIMs clock adjusts for drift of the consoles clock to ensure the passthrough is perfect. Every cycle is accounted for. We will not be destabilizing everything to shave another 4ms off when the benefits are ambiguous.


so this means that even though the PS4 can run at  4ms, its running at 8ms due to XIM timing?





sorry but its time to leave.... goodbye all!

Offline singlecoilpickup

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Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #78 on: 11:13 AM - 03/24/14 »
i'm not comparing sh1t. i was saying i thought XIM team's time would be better spent with one thing instead of the other due to effort-result ratios.

i remember some years ago hearing people say something almost equal but instead of '4ms' it was 60fps. now it's largely accepted by most that going north of 60fps has benefits. not because we can see much more than 60fps, but because of small nuances we can feel the existence of without being easy to pinpoint them. (again, for clarity's sake, remember my opinion is the 4ms change should not be done as of now)

Another apples to oranges comparison. You're comparing something that occurs over the span of one full second, which a human can perceive, to something that happens in 1/250th of a second, which a human cannot perceive.
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Offline Lord Of The Sith

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Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #79 on: 11:17 AM - 03/24/14 »
Lets not let this get out of hand, we had a nice discussion.
Both sides for and against gave there opinion!

A conclusion was met, lets leave it there.
Any decent mod would lock this now, purely out of caution.

There is nothing more to discuss here.
« Last Edit: 12:01 PM - 03/24/14 by YEESH_DALE »
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Offline ak-xs

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Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #80 on: 11:31 AM - 03/24/14 »
Another apples to oranges comparison. You're comparing something that occurs over the span of one full second, which a human can perceive, to something that happens in 1/250th of a second, which a human cannot perceive.

A) this is the FIRST comparison.
B) the comparison was between what people said and what you said.
C) you should explain to Sony and Oculus why they are polling 1000Hz when clearly no one can perceive tracking above 1Hz, according to you.

let's end this back and forth please as it's pointless. during gameplay some players 'feel' the consequences of things they couldn't possibly individually perceive, as hindering their gameplay.
soon..

Offline singlecoilpickup

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Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #81 on: 12:02 PM - 03/24/14 »
C) you should explain to Sony and Oculus why they are polling 1000Hz when clearly no one can perceive tracking above 1Hz, according to you.

If you think this is what I'm saying, then you don't even slightly understand what I'm saying and there's certainly no sense in continuing this conversation.
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Offline Lord Of The Sith

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Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #82 on: 12:13 PM - 03/24/14 »
C) you should explain to Sony and Oculus why they are polling 1000Hz when clearly no one can perceive tracking above 1Hz, according to you.

If you think this is what I'm saying, then you don't even slightly understand what I'm saying and there's certainly no sense in continuing this conversation.

I suppose there was more to say after all!

Of singlecoil i agree Ak-as doesnt get where you are coming from, but he has inadvertently raised another key point!

All our input devices for gaming except the microphone, are represented visually! And although 4ms of input lag would be in imperceptible! You have to admit and anything that shaves time off getting your cross hair to move at exactly the same time as you hand moves the mouse! Is important!

I get that its not important enough, but AK is right, the road that VR is taking us down is leading us to better responce times on pannels! The want the whole thing to be under 16ms do you think when they get to 16ms all round unput delay they will say its good enough IF they could squeeze alittle more out?

Now i get it, it's not as important here, because other factors are in place that mean on this occasion 8ms is working for you instead of against you..

But he is making a good point.

When i first heard about low persistence, i immediately grinned and realized this would come to gaming monitors shortly too!
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Offline BionicTbag

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Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #83 on: 12:13 PM - 03/24/14 »
nB4
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Offline Lord Of The Sith

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Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #84 on: 12:58 PM - 03/24/14 »
nB4


LOL what? I didnt offend anyone there did i?
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Offline BionicTbag

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Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #85 on: 01:06 PM - 03/24/14 »
LOL what? I didnt offend anyone there did i?


not that I can tell, its just this topic and the derailment already... its just funny.
sorry but its time to leave.... goodbye all!

Offline Lord Of The Sith

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Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #86 on: 01:22 PM - 03/24/14 »
Not at all, we are perfectly on track!
We are discussing the importance of achieving low ms response times!

This would lead us to the conclusion of whether or not it was important to implement!

I believe it should be something to consider in the future!
A seperate PS4 build...
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Offline singlecoilpickup

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Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #87 on: 01:38 PM - 03/24/14 »
A separate PS4 build means the XIM team has to do twice the maintenance when it comes time to do releases. Again, not a feasible endeavor for 4ms of improvement on one (out of four) platforms.
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Offline ak-xs

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Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #88 on: 01:42 PM - 03/24/14 »
yeah 2 builds will never happen. and for good reason
soon..

Offline Lord Of The Sith

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Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #89 on: 01:58 PM - 03/24/14 »
Go back to arguing you two! Lol :/
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