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Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?  (Read 41582 times)

Offline Lord Of The Sith

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Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #60 on: 09:10 AM - 03/24/14 »
OBsIV probably isn't going to tell you why it can't work because that would likely involve explaining a great deal about how the communication synchronization works. Competitors hawk these forums too heavily today to be giving away valuable information like that. He's already given you a pretty solid reason - it would be a huge undertaking and has a decent possibility of destabilizing the whole system.

Also, guys, let's be serious, you're not going to feel a 4ms improvement, no matter what lag other parts of your system might have. You might think you can feel it, but I might be so brazen as to suggest you're falling victim to a placebo effect.

Further, OBsIV isn't going to do this because even if you do feel it, not enough people would. Even once everything is stable there are new features and suggestions to implement that will benefit a larger portion of the player base than the handful of superhumans we have among us who can feel 4ms.

Some good points made, and as i said we wouldn't get answer for the reason of competitors staling the forums. Delay is delay if it can be reduced it should.

Annnyway, cant you have one solid build tweaking all the main aspects and have a second one that you tweak in your free time adding balls to the wall features. I mean why can't you have multiple versions? Or is there some unified law of the universe saying one must only ever have one copy of said software.

Ctrl+c +v brv
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Offline RookCheck

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Re: Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #61 on: 09:13 AM - 03/24/14 »
OBsIV probably isn't going to tell you why it can't work because that would likely involve explaining a great deal about how the communication synchronization works. Competitors hawk these forums too heavily today to be giving away valuable information like that. He's already given you a pretty solid reason - it would be a huge undertaking and has a decent possibility of destabilizing the whole system.

Also, guys, let's be serious, you're not going to feel a 4ms improvement, no matter what lag other parts of your system might have. You might think you can feel it, but I might be so brazen as to suggest you're falling victim to a placebo effect.

Further, OBsIV isn't going to do this because even if you do feel it, not enough people would. Even once everything is stable there are new features and suggestions to implement that will benefit a larger portion of the player base than the handful of superhumans we have among us who can feel 4ms.

Some good points made, and as i said we wouldn't get answer for the reason of competitors staling the forums. Delay is delay if it can be reduced it should.

Annnyway, cant you have one solid build tweaking all the main aspects and have a second one that you tweak in your free time adding balls to the wall features. I mean why can't you have multiple versions? Or is there some unified law of the universe saying one must only ever have one copy of said software.

Ctrl+c +v brv

Its a matter of time management and priorities. He isn't going to create multiple iterations and start splitting his time between a release candidate and a one off nuts release.

Perhaps in R and D in the future after release and stability. But certainly not before.
I swear to god I will bring forth a rage so complete in it's fury that your innards would boil from the sheer amount of energy pouring from your monitor.

Rook said everything that can be said.

Offline Sully_pa

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Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #62 on: 09:16 AM - 03/24/14 »
OBsIV probably isn't going to tell you why it can't work because that would likely involve explaining a great deal about how the communication synchronization works. Competitors hawk these forums too heavily today to be giving away valuable information like that. He's already given you a pretty solid reason - it would be a huge undertaking and has a decent possibility of destabilizing the whole system.

Also, guys, let's be serious, you're not going to feel a 4ms improvement, no matter what lag other parts of your system might have. You might think you can feel it, but I might be so brazen as to suggest you're falling victim to a placebo effect.

Further, OBsIV isn't going to do this because even if you do feel it, not enough people would. Even once everything is stable there are new features and suggestions to implement that will benefit a larger portion of the player base than the handful of superhumans we have among us who can feel 4ms.

Some good points made, and as i said we wouldn't get answer for the reason of competitors staling the forums. Delay is delay if it can be reduced it should.

Annnyway, cant you have one solid build tweaking all the main aspects and have a second one that you tweak in your free time adding balls to the wall features. I mean why can't you have multiple versions? Or is there some unified law of the universe saying one must only ever have one copy of said software.

Ctrl+c +v brv


Offline singlecoilpickup

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Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #63 on: 09:16 AM - 03/24/14 »
What Rook said. Of course it's possible to have two builds of the software. But the XIM team has very finite resources and has to use its time wisely, and spending a bunch of time on something like this probably doesn't fall under the scope of "wisely."
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Offline OBsIV

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Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #64 on: 09:19 AM - 03/24/14 »
Also, guys, let's be serious, you're not going to feel a 4ms improvement

Agreed. XIM isn't adding on top of existing latency. It synchronizes with the console. Xbox One and 360 has an 8ms USB poll rate. That means your mouse input will be delivered to the console with a delay guaranteed no longer than 8ms -- which is exactly the same as the controller. PS3 is 10ms. PS4 can be 4ms, but, we chose it to be 8ms because we believe the benefit of shaving 4ms doesn't outweigh the added complexity to an already complex (and thoroughly tested) system.
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Offline RookCheck

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Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #65 on: 09:21 AM - 03/24/14 »
/endthread
I swear to god I will bring forth a rage so complete in it's fury that your innards would boil from the sheer amount of energy pouring from your monitor.

Rook said everything that can be said.

Offline Lord Of The Sith

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Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #66 on: 10:11 AM - 03/24/14 »
Also, guys, let's be serious, you're not going to feel a 4ms improvement

Agreed. XIM isn't adding on top of existing latency. It synchronizes with the console. Xbox One and 360 has an 8ms USB poll rate. That means your mouse input will be delivered to the console with a delay guaranteed no longer than 8ms -- which is exactly the same as the controller. PS3 is 10ms. PS4 can be 4ms, but, we chose it to be 8ms because we believe the benefit of shaving 4ms doesn't outweigh the added complexity to an already complex (and thoroughly tested) system.


So it's perfectly fine to have the XIM "perfectly synchronised" with the XBOX controller, but not the DS4?

Gotcha.

Actually, you know what? I retract that!

I mean its not your fault two different companies decided to have the devices poll at different rates. I mean this truly is a console problem!

Why on earth aren't we in a console generation where we have controllera with 1ms response time that poll at 1000Hz?

I guess i owe you an apology OBsIV, sorry for being a brat but honesty!?
I just want the product to perform at the very limits of what it can do!

And my uneducated guess is to clamber for the response time to be lower. I apologise...
« Last Edit: 10:22 AM - 03/24/14 by YEESH_DALE »
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Offline ak-xs

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Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #67 on: 10:26 AM - 03/24/14 »
i know exactly how to solve this so everyone is happy:

we gather all the XIMers that both want the 4ms thing or that "don't". Chain OBsIV to a pole in the middle, higher up than what anyone can reach. and at the sound of a whistle everyone starts killing each other. who ever stands last gets to free OBsIV and thus, as a reward, OBsIV will do their wish of working the 4ms or not.

since the people who can feel the 4ms different should be faster, they will likely win so those will be happy.
opposing faction is too slow and will be dead so, all happy as well.

people like me that would like the 4ms but can't be bothered with it will cheer and be happy either way.
people that are indifferent but that defend sticking to 8ms should be persecuted and have their hand cirurgically removed and replaced with analog sticks as thumbs and buttons as fingers so they spend the rest of their lives playing shooters without mice in agony.


roads would be the ref.
soon..

Offline singlecoilpickup

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Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #68 on: 10:38 AM - 03/24/14 »
So it's perfectly fine to have the XIM "perfectly synchronised" with the XBOX controller, but not the DS4?

In this case, yes, because nobody should care about 4ms.
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Offline Lord Of The Sith

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Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #69 on: 10:43 AM - 03/24/14 »
Ak-as dude your head is rhubarb mateeeee! Lol.

@singlecoilpickup I know i know, but i do care, i wish i never! But i just do.. It's the way PC gaming has made me! Everything needs to be Optimal...
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Offline RookCheck

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Re: Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #70 on: 10:46 AM - 03/24/14 »
Ak-as dude your head is rhubarb mateeeee! Lol.

@singlecoilpickup I know i know, but i do care, i wish i never! But i just do.. It's the way PC gaming has made me! Everything needs to be Optimal...

But that's just it. The current conditions are optimal. Going beyond that will destabilize the XIM and controller interaction, and for a gain that I highly doubt anyone would even notice.
I swear to god I will bring forth a rage so complete in it's fury that your innards would boil from the sheer amount of energy pouring from your monitor.

Rook said everything that can be said.

Offline singlecoilpickup

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Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #71 on: 10:46 AM - 03/24/14 »
Ak-as dude your head is rhubarb mateeeee! Lol.

@singlecoilpickup I know i know, but i do care, i wish i never! But i just do.. It's the way PC gaming has made me! Everything needs to be Optimal...

PC gaming has nothing to do with it. You can't feel 4ms unless you have a reaction time that's better than any human whose reaction time has ever been tested.

In short, no offense, but this "need" is entirely in your head.
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Offline ak-xs

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Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #72 on: 10:51 AM - 03/24/14 »
because nobody should care about 4ms.

don't tell people what they should or should not care. not everyone is the same, doing the same, in the same places,etc. i do believe there are more pressing changes that need to be made however.


i think wireless PS4 support would please a lot of people and be a real asset to draw people into the XIM.
soon..

Offline singlecoilpickup

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Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #73 on: 10:57 AM - 03/24/14 »
because nobody should care about 4ms.

don't tell people what they should or should not care. not everyone is the same, doing the same, in the same places,etc. i do believe there are more pressing changes that need to be made however.


i think wireless PS4 support would please a lot of people and be a real asset to draw people into the XIM.

Ak, the wireless thing is totally different. You're comparing apples to oranges.

No human can feel 4ms. Anyone who thinks they can is kidding themselves. Therefore, I'm going to go ahead and tell people they shouldn't care bout 4ms, but thanks for your concern.
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Offline Lord Of The Sith

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Re: Will the XIM4 ever reduce input lag to lower than 8ms?
« Reply #74 on: 11:06 AM - 03/24/14 »
Ak-as dude your head is rhubarb mateeeee! Lol.

@singlecoilpickup I know i know, but i do care, i wish i never! But i just do.. It's the way PC gaming has made me! Everything needs to be Optimal...

PC gaming has nothing to do with it. You can't feel 4ms unless you have a reaction time that's better than any human whose reaction time has ever been tested.

In short, no offense, but this "need" is entirely in your head.

I know it is buddy ::) :D i thought the way i wrote that made it sound more like "the need" is more like the bane of my life when it comes to gaming!

It is in my head i wish it wasn't..

Having finite numbers and figures makes you face the real culprit of your bad games! "YOU!"

@Rookcheck i understand! Honestly i do..

This is hypothetical:

If there was two versions of the XIM4 software that you could download, both exactly the same apart from one having 8ms and one having 4ms response time! The one with 4ms would get more downloads!

Lets take this theory further!

If those versions were locked to specific consoles!
e.g 4ms = PS4 and 8ms = XBONE

Over the life cycle of this current gen how many people would convert to PS4 or use there PS4 more becuase of that one! Claimed seemingly insignificant detail...

I would love to see that i really would.

But we are here, and that is fantasy land, like everything else in the hardware software world! I'm happy with 8ms i'll be quite now.

:(
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