XIM Community

Who's excited for Destiny on XIM4?  (Read 482933 times)

Offline Web-head

  • MVP
  • *
  • Posts: 2134
    • View Profile
  • PSN ID: Spidey
Re: Who's excited for Destiny on XIM4?
« Reply #3120 on: 07:59 AM - 04/14/15 »
Thanks so much for the detailed explanation mate; it really helped in simplifying what exactly adding a curve does.

I guess I'll just use a normal config first, and then use a config with a curve on it, and see which I like best. Is that the best approach in your view?

I have a fairly large mousepad (the Logitech G440 to be precise) and use the Logitech G502 as my mouse, so I'm not sure if a curve is even necessary.

My advice would be to stay away from curves and acceleration.  There are some that like it, but in general, I think that people are better off without it.

You bought a mouse that has a sensor with no acceleration.  You bought a product that touts being 1:1 aiming with no acceleration.  To then go and add acceleration makes little sense to me, but to each their own.

With accel, movement is unpredictable.  With no accel, you move your mouse 6 inches and the cursor moves 6 inches on screen (depending on DPI, resolution, etc).  You can move the mouse as fast or as slow as you want, but as long as you move the mouse 6 inches, the cursor on screen will still move  6 inches.  With accel if you move the mouse 6 inches the cursor on screen MIGHT move 6 inches, depending on how fast you moved the mouse.  Move it fast 6 inches and the cursor on screen might move 12 inches.  Move it faster and it might move 20 inches.  Move it slow and it might move 4 inches.  So on and so forth.

You can get used to anything if you practice long enough.  Accel is unpredictable, but with practice you can predict it well enough to do well with it.  That's one route.  I prefer the route of 1:1 aiming.  You move your mouse a certain distance on the pad and your cursor moves the same amount on screen every single time, regardless of whether you do a fast swipe or a slow one.  It makes more sense to my brain, and probably most people's brains.  It is more like a natural extension of your your hand/arm.

A mouse with no accel is coveted.  It is called a flawless sensor.  Most pros don't use accel.  They don't want it on Windows, they don't want it on the sensor, they don't want it anywhere.  To buy products that have these flawless features and then purposely add it yourself, seems contradictory.  Again, to each their own.

Try with out any curves for a while until you get good with a mouse.  Once you have it down, you can experiment with curves and then you will have a better understanding of whether it is helping your game or hurting it.

Offline SHawking

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 25
    • View Profile
Re: Who's excited for Destiny on XIM4?
« Reply #3121 on: 11:38 AM - 04/14/15 »
I cannot thank you enough for your post Web-head; it's helped me decide to just not mess around with curves (for the reasons you've stated, as I'll just be hampering myself in the short-term) until I at least master using a mouse normally for gaming.

The support/community here is amazing, and I sincerely appreciate the time you took for that write-up  above :)

Also, if you (and others) don't mind, what HIP and ADS settings do you use? I know it'll be different for everyone, but I just want to get an idea on what values I should start off with.

Offline colb

  • MVP
  • *
  • Posts: 4677
  • The Global Elite
    • View Profile
  • Gamertag: mynameiscolb
  • PSN ID: mynameiscolb
Re: Who's excited for Destiny on XIM4?
« Reply #3122 on: 11:53 AM - 04/14/15 »
Acceleration on PC is generally a bad thing. But since both sides have said their piece and you understand what acceleration curves are for, let's talk about why it's not a bad thing on console.


On PC, good FPS games have native mouse input. This means the game does not use Windows to feed the mouse input signal, as the game takes the signal directly from the mouse. This results in 100% mouse sensor accuracy. What you see on screen is a direct result of your mouse sensor. This allows incredibly fast, or slow, but accurate movements. Native input is THE way to play with a mouse on PC. If the game doesn't support native input, pros won't take it seriously. Because of this, acceleration is frowned upon. You can move as fast as your sensor will allow, and still make incredibly accurate fine micro movements. No acceleration is needed.


Now let's flip over to console gaming.

As we all know, console games are restricted by the controller maximum velocity (maximum turn speed). This cannot be raised or bypassed. There is no such thing as native mouse input for console. This means our mouse is just emulating a joystick. The XIM does an insanely good job at this. So good, in fact, that some games aren't playable at the 1:1 ratio. Titanfall is a perfect example of this. The game has a low maximum velocity, and the result is a high XIM sensitivity will have you hitting that turn cap too quickly, while not allowing the micro movement accuracy.

This is where a curve comes in.


A curve basically tells your XIM to maintain the 1:1 velocity up until a certain point. You control these points, where the sensitivity gain increases. In doing so, you can craft a configuration that will resemble PC like feel, with acceleration. It will not be 1:1... But you'll find it more enjoyable on a low turn speed game. Granted, you will still hit the turn cap regularly, but the difference is your accuracy is boosted.

Offline Web-head

  • MVP
  • *
  • Posts: 2134
    • View Profile
  • PSN ID: Spidey
Re: Who's excited for Destiny on XIM4?
« Reply #3123 on: 12:15 PM - 04/14/15 »
Colb makes good points and I would definitely take his words into consideration.  I'd still recommend getting used to the mouse with no curves as you are not just new to XIM, but new to mice in general.  You can make a better choice for yourself after you've gotten your feet not just wet, but drenched.

I'd still say that accel is generally bad on console too.  I'd rather just use a bigger pad, but I definitely understand the reasons why it could be advantageous as well.

Speaking of TitanFall Colb, I was able to finally play it again after getting my GTX 980.  It isn't so much the card as the game had massive screen tearing with no V-Sync and stuttering with V-Sync, just like my 7970.  The difference was RadeonPro's injection options don't work nearly as well as Nvidia's.  I was able to use Adaptive V-Sync on TiatanFall with Nvidia's software, whereas AMD has no such option, and the 3rd party app that tries to take up the slack, was a great effort, but not quite there.  Annoying that I have to use it at all, as no other game makes it a necessity, but Respawn's poor PC programming on this game is legendary so...

Anyway, I don't remember if you said you have it on PC as well, but if have it and you want to play, I can send you a request on Origin.
« Last Edit: 12:27 PM - 04/14/15 by Web-head »

Offline SHawking

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 25
    • View Profile
Re: Who's excited for Destiny on XIM4?
« Reply #3124 on: 04:19 PM - 04/15/15 »
So guys, I spent the day finally setting up the Xim 4 and getting used to playing with a mouse (I've never gamed with a mouse before). I seem to be improving somewhat, but I have 2 issues;

1). I keep hitting the turn-speed limit (or whatever its called when the Xim flashes red). From reading up on the forum, I know why this is happening (i.e. console games aren't coded/made for PC inputs), but how does one stop/limit constantly hitting the turn-speed limit? I'm currently using a G502 mouse, with DPI set at 12k and a Polling Rate of 1000. Would turning down the DPI help, or is it best to keep it at 12k and just deal with the turn-speed limits?

2). I'm not sure if this is just me getting used to playing with a mouse, but I'm frequently lifting the mouse up and 'centring' it. I have a G440 Mousepad, which is very large in size, so I'm not sure if lifting the mouse up is just normal operating procedure when playing with a mouse, or does it indicate I need to change my settings (i.e. HIP/ADS etc)?

Thanks again for the responses :)

Offline nataku_0

  • MVP
  • *
  • Posts: 834
    • View Profile
Re: Who's excited for Destiny on XIM4?
« Reply #3125 on: 04:46 PM - 04/15/15 »
So guys, I spent the day finally setting up the Xim 4 and getting used to playing with a mouse (I've never gamed with a mouse before). I seem to be improving somewhat, but I have 2 issues;

1). I keep hitting the turn-speed limit (or whatever its called when the Xim flashes red). From reading up on the forum, I know why this is happening (i.e. console games aren't coded/made for PC inputs), but how does one stop/limit constantly hitting the turn-speed limit? I'm currently using a G502 mouse, with DPI set at 12k and a Polling Rate of 1000. Would turning down the DPI help, or is it best to keep it at 12k and just deal with the turn-speed limits?

2). I'm not sure if this is just me getting used to playing with a mouse, but I'm frequently lifting the mouse up and 'centring' it. I have a G440 Mousepad, which is very large in size, so I'm not sure if lifting the mouse up is just normal operating procedure when playing with a mouse, or does it indicate I need to change my settings (i.e. HIP/ADS etc)?

Thanks again for the responses :)

You should be lifting your mouse. It shouldn't be a long drag to make a turn.

As for sensitivity, is your ingame sensitivity at max?
For things like running and driving, you need to set up a toggle. I have it so that when I hold down a key, a 2nd sensitivity is used and when I lift the key, it returns to the regular. There's a thread somewhere for this. But it's a must have for running, otherwise you can't turn if you run.

I would keep the DPI setting on the mouse as max, and then tune the settings on the xim. Make sure you're using the right smart profile too.

Offline AntiM

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 73
    • View Profile
  • PSN ID: AntiM59
Re: Who's excited for Destiny on XIM4?
« Reply #3126 on: 07:37 AM - 04/16/15 »
http://xim4.com/community/index.php?topic=35843.0

There you go.  Everything you ever wanted to know about a sprint switch.

But if you're using a Sony nav you might find yourself lacking for available hot keys.

You can also take advantage of the multiple dpi settings available on your G502.  It's a little harder to adjust as you can't do it on the fly like you would on the xim since you have to program the settings on a PC.  But you've got 5 possible settings with the G502 and plenty of dpi to work with, so you could set several "test" settings to find two or three that work for you.  Basically set your standard at a lower dpi setting and use a higher setting for vehicle movement.  Ideally, tumbler movement would be at the max mouse dpi.

I still prefer the sprint switch for running, but I use the dpi switch for tumbler on my 700s. 

I use three dpi settings:

Highest: Vehicle movement
Medium: Close Quarters Combat, the highest dpi I feel I can control well allowing for quick turns.
Lowest:  Stand off, the highest dpi where I can line up multiple precision shots on several different targets in a row.

I don't use a curve on anything but the sprint switch.

There's lot's of ways to attack the same problems.  What works for me, might not work for you.  I'm an old mouse guy from day one who can sit down at anyone's computer and be comfortable with pretty much any mouse setting within a few seconds.  Play around, find what works for you.  Half the fun of a Xim is all the different ways you can use it.  And you don't have pesky preconceptions of how a mouse should work getting in your way.

Offline Web-head

  • MVP
  • *
  • Posts: 2134
    • View Profile
  • PSN ID: Spidey
Re: Who's excited for Destiny on XIM4?
« Reply #3127 on: 08:32 AM - 04/16/15 »
Use the Sprint switch method.

Keep your DPI at max and adjust sensitivity.  XIM4 with Mouse on console benefits low sens PC players much more so than high sens PC players.  The turn speeds just aren't high enough.  For best results and avoiding the turn cap red flashes, you need to use low sens, a big mouse pad, and get used to not swiping too fast. 

Keep in mind though that just because you see the red flashes doesn't always mean that your movement is being negatively affected.  Seeing it sometimes is kind of unavoidable.  Where you really need to worry though is if you see it pretty much all the time even when you aren't swiping particularly fast.

Offline pdogg6

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 412
  • Southeast Gamer
    • View Profile
Re: Who's excited for Destiny on XIM4?
« Reply #3128 on: 09:33 AM - 04/16/15 »
Mine starts flashing red the moment I move my mouse.  I'm probably using mine inefficiently, but I have no issues/complaints.  Still shoot fools in the face.  I'm a high sensitivity PC player a little freakishly high actually.  I'm Lazy to work too much I guess and I've just ignore it the warning.  No device has really given me that PC 1:1, but BOOHOO I'm using a freakin mouse on a freakin console!

I think the wording is misleading. The "warning" in the description makes one think your about to encounter something bad, but really it should be thought as an "indicator" that you've pegged your thumb stick to max position.  I really don't know why some are advising to adjust settings to keep that at a minimum?!  To me if your not activating the warning then your not turning at the maximum speed you can go.  Why would you not want to do that?
RTR
Setup: PS4 - XIM Apex - G502 - Sony Nav.
PS4 Gameplay:
http://www.youtube.com/user/pdoggcss

Offline Web-head

  • MVP
  • *
  • Posts: 2134
    • View Profile
  • PSN ID: Spidey
Re: Who's excited for Destiny on XIM4?
« Reply #3129 on: 10:02 AM - 04/16/15 »
Mine starts flashing red the moment I move my mouse.  I'm probably using mine inefficiently, but I have no issues/complaints.  Still shoot fools in the face.  I'm a high sensitivity PC player a little freakishly high actually.  I'm Lazy to work too much I guess and I've just ignore it the warning.  No device has really given me that PC 1:1, but BOOHOO I'm using a freakin mouse on a freakin console!

I think the wording is misleading. The "warning" in the description makes one think your about to encounter something bad, but really it should be thought as an "indicator" that you've pegged your thumb stick to max position.  I really don't know why some are advising to adjust settings to keep that at a minimum?!  To me if your not activating the warning then your not turning at the maximum speed you can go.  Why would you not want to do that?

You get negative accel when you exceed turn cap, though.  That's why.  when you exceed the turn cap the faster and further you move the mouse, the less your onscreen reticule will move.  If you are 1:1 one minute and you are moving the mouse slowly and when you move it 6 inches on the pad and the reticle moves 6 inches on screen one minute, and the next you get surprised and move the mouse fast 6 inches on the pad and the reticle moves 3 inches on screen the next, that will throw off your aim.

If it happens sporadically it isn't a huge deal, but if you are getting red flashes a lot of the time, then you are losing onscreen movement vs mat movement and may run out of real estate on the pad at an inopportune time.

Offline pdogg6

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 412
  • Southeast Gamer
    • View Profile
Re: Who's excited for Destiny on XIM4?
« Reply #3130 on: 12:34 PM - 04/16/15 »
You get negative accel when you exceed turn cap, though.  That's why.  when you exceed the turn cap the faster and further you move the mouse, the less your onscreen reticule will move.  If you are 1:1 one minute and you are moving the mouse slowly and when you move it 6 inches on the pad and the reticle moves 6 inches on screen one minute, and the next you get surprised and move the mouse fast 6 inches on the pad and the reticle moves 3 inches on screen the next, that will throw off your aim.

If it happens sporadically it isn't a huge deal, but if you are getting red flashes a lot of the time, then you are losing onscreen movement vs mat movement and may run out of real estate on the pad at an inopportune time.

Interesting.  I only seem to notice the slow down if I'm purposely jerking the mouse from left to right.  Maybe I could do better if I actually spent time adjusting this things LOL.  Hard to believe I'd get any better though ;).  Haha I kid.
RTR
Setup: PS4 - XIM Apex - G502 - Sony Nav.
PS4 Gameplay:
http://www.youtube.com/user/pdoggcss

Offline Web-head

  • MVP
  • *
  • Posts: 2134
    • View Profile
  • PSN ID: Spidey
Re: Who's excited for Destiny on XIM4?
« Reply #3131 on: 01:28 PM - 04/16/15 »
You get negative accel when you exceed turn cap, though.  That's why.  when you exceed the turn cap the faster and further you move the mouse, the less your onscreen reticule will move.  If you are 1:1 one minute and you are moving the mouse slowly and when you move it 6 inches on the pad and the reticle moves 6 inches on screen one minute, and the next you get surprised and move the mouse fast 6 inches on the pad and the reticle moves 3 inches on screen the next, that will throw off your aim.

If it happens sporadically it isn't a huge deal, but if you are getting red flashes a lot of the time, then you are losing onscreen movement vs mat movement and may run out of real estate on the pad at an inopportune time.

Interesting.  I only seem to notice the slow down if I'm purposely jerking the mouse from left to right.  Maybe I could do better if I actually spent time adjusting this things LOL.  Hard to believe I'd get any better though ;).  Haha I kid.

Lol.  Modest to a fault.


Admin