Tuff

[singlecoilpickup]

Yeah, I get what you're saying. I guess I just wouldn't like giving up that level of control over my code.

There are a few languages already, like Ruby, that aim to be "more like natural language," and so far I dislike all of them, lol.

[tuffrabit]

Yeah, ruby sux balls. Syntax is merely semantics. If you are used to programming you can hammer out a rudimentary understanding of most any languages in about an hour.

[singlecoilpickup]

The unfortunate part is that I've been stuck messing with a fair amount of Ruby lately as I've been re-working our devops system at work to be based on Puppet manifests, which has involved a lot of ruby templates and ruby scripts for checking system environments for files or services.

[ak-xs]

our intro in college is Java. do you know how much i hate to be constantly writing " ; " everywhere? and the IDE does everything for us, like for real.. Netbeans is the most coder friendly stuff i've seen, it will tell me if i'm looking at the screen wrong LOL (obvious hyperbole is obvious)

coding languages must have rules so they are precise. i get it. low level languages exist precisely to let humans decide how to optimise the code. i get it too. but ffs let's cut all the bloat. let's make it truly accessible and not just intuitive. because today's most used stuff are mostly pretty intuitive i'll give you that. just not lazy friendly..

i should have warned in the beginning this is mostly due to laziness and little else. 1st world problems 100%.

i have a serious problem with laziness, not joking at all. apparently writing is one of the few things i'm not too lazy to do as long as it's just chatter.. my games backlog is colossal due to the laziness of having to learn a new game and just going for the easy path that is booting one that i know by heart LOL

so what i wanted was to only have to "learn algorithms" and be done with it almost. that much i know already..

[ak-xs]

you know how frustrating it is that upon facing a problem i can pseudo code everything i'm thrown at in beginners level in "plain english" and then need someone to translate it to Java for me since i won't be able to do it all correctly? and Java must be the easiest language ever to learn.. but it still demands learning, i disapprove of that.

[singlecoilpickup]

I hate languages that *don't* close lines with the semi-colon. Hate them with a passion. I like having explicit control over where my line ends or doesn't end. If you don't have line that ends with a semicolon, then it must end with a new line which means you either have to write really long lines of code, which is terrible for readability, or add a bunch of concatenation syntax to say "don't consider this line break to be a new line," which I find awkward.

In terms of having to spend time learning - anything that's worth doing requires you to spend time learning.

Be careful with Netbeans, it has a bug that I've encountered in many versions that cause files to report as "saved" but not be saved on the file system. I lost like four hours of work once that way.

The absolute best Java IDE, in my opinion, is IntelliJ from JetBrains. It's not free, but, I feel like it's worth every penny. It can also support pretty much any other common development language, so I use it for just about everything, except Objective-C.

[ak-xs]

we can use that too(for free) i think, i'm stuck with netbeans because of classes. i would have the freedom if i knew what i was doing, but being a noob teachers wouldn't approve of taking that kind of initiative.

yeah i hate using it but i also prefer the " ; " to " enter ". i have a friend with mild OCD (i'm just calling it that) about his code organisation and he has a low resolution on his laptop, his code is funny it looks like comics.
while i once knew a very good coder that basically didn't like to press enter for no foreseeable reasons. after seeing 2 modules of his code i sweared i would never be like that in my life.. that is unusable, he had a 10ish line module in 1 line, i spent more time interpreting that then making it a few days before..


the " ; " was just an example though, true problem is what you said - anything worth it requires minimal time learning. this is the apocalypse prophecy for a sloth like me..

[singlecoilpickup]

Don't get me wrong, if things turn into the Matrix some day and full knowledge of something can just be downloaded to my brain, I'd be totally fine with that.

[ak-xs]

how long would humanity last if that was so? all the ill intended people and the stupid one's would now hold the power that comes with unlimited knowledge!!! mixed feelings LOL

[tuffrabit]

Netbeans is alright... best option I've come across for debugging php.

Lol singlecoil, i bet you hate python.

Ak, dude... if you dislike the semicolons in java i bet you would have a heart attack if you ever mess with lisp.

For a fun time you should check out Ook or brainfuck.

[singlecoilpickup]

You know, it's weird, I don't mind Python. The lack of semicolons makes me shudder, but the other good things about the language kind of make up for it.

For debugging PHP, the combination of PHPStorm and Xdebug blows away Netbeans. Try it sometime.

[tuffrabit]

I heart Python.  I know it's very far and away from .NET and C#, but it's wondrous nonetheless.  I had to write a plugin for Mozilla Thunderbird to support our product's email/contacts/calendar collaboration/syncing service.  If I didn't have the option of Python for that, it would've been a crazy mess.

[abc123]

You know, it's weird, I don't mind Python. The lack of semicolons makes me shudder, but the other good things about the language kind of make up for it.

For debugging PHP, the combination of PHPStorm and Xdebug blows away Netbeans. Try it sometime.

Hey I do DevOps at my company too...and have to write puppet scripts...are you me?

[singlecoilpickup]

I don't think I'm you, but I often black out and have time unaccounted for.

I only do a minimal amount of DevOps stuff, but in general I end up wearing a lot of hats.

[ak-xs]

Ak, dude... if you dislike the semicolons in java i bet you would have a heart attack if you ever mess with lisp.

For a fun time you should check out Ook or brainfuck.

if lisp is what i think it is, if i'm ever forced to learn it i'll need a lot of weed or i fear for the people around me..
wasn't J.Carmack all over that in the last QuakeCon?

ook and brainfu*k i was told before already, major laughs when we found that in our freshman year (we have some crazy traditions for freshman here, it's really fun but i didn't pass anything as i didn't go to a single test.. good - irresponsible but- good times ^^)