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xbox360fanboy newbies + Dustin Burg proves yet again he's dumb.  (Read 5269 times)

Offline CEOrko

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This would have been good to know before I ordered one of the pre-Christmas deals...
still happy with mine, just sayin... wanted to use my Thrustmaster set up for something at some point (once I got COD:[email protected] out of my system)

Pretty sure your's is from the last few Rev.b boards. Meaning 3 dac

Yeah, your XIM2 is a Revision B (Rev A being the beta board, Rev B being the original pre-order and Christmas order board, Rev C the 2DAC redesign, and Rev D the XFlex and Rev D the 2DAC redesign, and XFlex being a later revision that returned to using 3DACs) board. Asked after derek posted the XIM2 Christmas thread:

http://xim3.com/community/index.php?topic=1677.0

I don't actually know if any Rev C boards even made it out for any reason other than for testing, which may have never happened anyway with the part shortage bypassed.
« Last Edit: 03:59 AM - 01/31/09 by CEOrko »

Offline ansaris

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Does everyone really think this is over-priced? Or do they just not understand what is involved... or the possibility of more device profiles than just keyboard and mouse?... or the near limitless flexibility of the configurations?




                                                              .sigh.

Rhetorical question? It's obviously over-priced for the average person. The majority of people will see this as a third-party controller like the XFPS. It requires a PC, yet still doesn't provide the same keyboard/mouse experience as the PC, at almost the price of an Arcade X360.

I have a Xim 1, for which I ended up spending probably much more than $200 to get it built and comfortably working(XFPS, wired controller, programmable controller, soldering iron, solder, USB hub, USB extension cables, case etc.) at the same time I purchased the Xbox 360. This was THE major factor in my purchasing an X360.

The Xim didn't quite deliver what I was looking for. Is it laziness or inability on the part of Obsiv? Of course not. I imagine he's done almost everything possible. The lag and PS2-to-360 translation of the XFPS, limitations of the Xbox controller for which the movement is modeled through, and the heavy auto-aim and acceleration built into to the games are all factors in providing a flawed experience. It's still much better than the standard controller. Today the only game my family uses it for is Team Fortress 2. It's too much of a pain to get it setup properly for all the other games we play. I don't have the patience I once had. I don't enjoy figuring out the best combination of in-game sensitivity/exponential component anymore.

Back when I assembled the Xim, the XFPS 3.0 Sniper had just come out. Everyone was comparing it to that piece of crap and the two are really leagues apart, the only similarity the X in the names. I still carry an intense dislike for XCM and their rip-off ways.

I understand that you're not overpricing the Xim360 in the way XCM overpriced the XFPS. If each controller is $40 and shipping to the continental US is $5, then $135 is left over for the production of the board, internal shipping costs, equipment setup, soldering labor, testing, not counting all the free time given for development of the original Xim-1 and Xim360, development of the Xim software, testing and managing the community board. There's no profit here when considering all the man-hours put in. It's obviously a labor of love. But it's still too expensive if you care about market share. Look at the PS3. Only $400, you get a blue-ray player, built in wireless networking, built in charger for the wireless controller, free network gaming, and let's not forget PS Home, the game where you can look at advertising or buy virtual clothing. They're obviously losing some money on it and yet they still can't gain market share.

If you haven't been following the development of the Xim for the past year or so, you are not going to be interested in this product. And you can't expect people to judge it as a mod anymore, the public is now going to judge it by the standards of a normal commercial add-on for the 360 like the wireless guitar or wireless steering wheel.

Yet unlike other commercial products there's no marketing to speak of. Anyone who happens upon the buy page is not going to be motivated to buy the product. What do they know of support for alternate device profiles or limitless flexibility? You'd have to dig through a cluttered message board to find all that stuff out. Perhaps sending out some review samples(with documentation) to engadget/joystiq, kotaku, firingsquad, arstechnica, anandtech, etc. would help. Have the harcore Xim fanbase create some amazing videos and post them on youtube(it should be clear the Xim is in use and only the Xim360 can provide this experience). Make a video for each game. Have someone make a nice commercial for the Xim. Video user reviews of the Xim and some more blog attention would be good too. Ahh.. but keep away from the blatant brownnosing and fanboyism. It doesn't help the cause. This board is so filled with it it's hard to judge fact from opinion(and I've been reading the board since the fall of the old usergroup). You want to encourage dissent and then address those criticisms.


Having said all this, I'm still not going to purchase the Xim360. 0 lag and diagonal dampening aren't going to solve the built-in acceleration and aim assist put into all console games these days. It will never provide the experience I want. I had wrong expectations to begin with. In other words, I will have to return to the PC. Without support from Microsoft and the game developers the keyboard and mouse will never be used on the Xbox by any significant portion of gamers.

Obsiv was very honest throughout all of this and I really respect what this guy's done. He's given hope to a small movement of extremely hardcore gamers. My hope is that someone else will see what you guys are doing and pick up the project, provide funding, and perhaps absorb you into a larger company. Or perhaps the modding community will use the Xim360 like we used the XFPS, as a means to create other great projects.

But those who have an Xbox dev kit or Microsoft developer support would have no trouble creating a true mouse peripheral. The difficulty is with the software and the lack of will at Microsoft to emplement a true mouse solution in the living room. If anything, the future is obviously with the Wiimote and other devices with accelerometers(like the iPhone). The market that wishes to play FPSes on the mouse/keyboard is insignificant compared to the casual market that now make up the majority of gamers worldwide.

I do understand that this is still in beta / test phase and you want to see how the online store for all the Xim fanboys goes before talking to playasia or other more mainstream retailers. It would be great if you can get your act together before the Xbox 360 gets retired for the next generation of consoles. In my eyes, once you decided to stop selling the parts as a DIY kit you've stepped away from the mod scene and into the for-profit commercial arena. Stick to being a small insignificant mod and no one will have any reason to criticize the Xim.
« Last Edit: 07:07 PM - 01/08/09 by ansaris »
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Offline tweak

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...but you haven't tried it...

Offline OMGsus

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Does everyone really think this is over-priced? Or do they just not understand what is involved... or the possibility of more device profiles than just keyboard and mouse?... or the near limitless flexibility of the configurations?




                                                              .sigh.

Rhetorical question? etc etc...

No, not a rhetorical question, I was asking the people here who actually know what went into this product.

You talk as if you think you know what our plans are and that we are "going corporate" by not supplying DIYs at this time. This is not a scheme to make boat loads of money and in reality these units are not overprice in regards to a sum of their parts and costs. Hell, I don't make a dime on this project and that's the way I want it. Any profits go right back into XIM R&D prototyping and project costs and Derek's Ferrari.(jk) You make a lot of good points that we have gone over many times in past discussions here, like how our product differs from the marketability of XCM's, but you also assume WAY too much. A lot of your statements are completely wrong and others are right on the money. I really don't know what to say since I've never seen such a completely flip flopping post. So do you love us or hate us?  ;D  (Now THAT was a rhetorical question)

Note that other people like XCM have analysts that tell them just how much they can screw over the customer and continue to sell a product.(a.k.a. business 101) We don't do that here. But we will continue to do what we have to to get a quality,supported product into as many hands as possible.

And as far as what is possible with the system, you REALLY dont have to look too hard to figure it out. We have been going over how to "market" the unit but still, so far we target our core followers for the time being. Remember, one person is making these by hand at the moment. This project was built around OBsIV and this community and will have to grow out over time.
« Last Edit: 11:31 PM - 01/08/09 by OMGsus »

Offline Memento_Mori

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Rhetorical question? It's obviously over-priced for the average person. The majority of people will see this as a third-party controller like the XFPS. It requires a PC, yet still doesn't provide the same keyboard/mouse experience as the PC, at almost the price of an Arcade X360.

I have a Xim 1, for which I ended up spending probably much more than $200 to get it built and comfortably working(XFPS, wired controller, programmable controller, soldering iron, solder, USB hub, USB extension cables, case etc.) at the same time I purchased the Xbox 360. This was THE major factor in my purchasing an X360.

The Xim didn't quite deliver what I was looking for. Is it laziness or inability on the part of Obsiv? Of course not. I imagine he's done almost everything possible. The lag and PS2-to-360 translation of the XFPS, limitations of the Xbox controller for which the movement is modeled through, and the heavy auto-aim and acceleration built into to the games are all factors in providing a flawed experience. It's still much better than the standard controller. Today the only game my family uses it for is Team Fortress 2. It's too much of a pain to get it setup properly for all the other games we play. I don't have the patience I once had. I don't enjoy figuring out the best combination of in-game sensitivity/exponential component anymore.

Back when I assembled the Xim, the XFPS 3.0 Sniper had just come out. Everyone was comparing it to that piece of crap and the two are really leagues apart, the only similarity the X in the names. I still carry an intense dislike for XCM and their rip-off ways.

I understand that you're not overpricing the Xim360 in the way XCM overpriced the XFPS. If each controller is $40 and shipping to the continental US is $5, then $135 is left over for the production of the board, internal shipping costs, equipment setup, soldering labor, testing, not counting all the free time given for development of the original Xim-1 and Xim360, development of the Xim software, testing and managing the community board. There's no profit here when considering all the man-hours put in. It's obviously a labor of love. But it's still too expensive if you care about market share. Look at the PS3. Only $400, you get a blue-ray player, built in wireless networking, built in charger for the wireless controller, free network gaming, and let's not forget PS Home, the game where you can look at advertising or buy virtual clothing. They're obviously losing some money on it and yet they still can't gain market share.

If you haven't been following the development of the Xim for the past year or so, you are not going to be interested in this product. And you can't expect people to judge it as a mod anymore, the public is now going to judge it by the standards of a normal commercial add-on for the 360 like the wireless guitar or wireless steering wheel.

Yet unlike other commercial products there's no marketing to speak of. Anyone who happens upon the buy page is not going to be motivated to buy the product. What do they know of support for alternate device profiles or limitless flexibility? You'd have to dig through a cluttered message board to find all that stuff out. Perhaps sending out some review samples(with documentation) to engadget/joystiq, kotaku, firingsquad, arstechnica, anandtech, etc. would help. Have the harcore Xim fanbase create some amazing videos and post them on youtube(it should be clear the Xim is in use and only the Xim360 can provide this experience). Make a video for each game. Have someone make a nice commercial for the Xim. Video user reviews of the Xim and some more blog attention would be good too. Ahh.. but keep away from the blatant brownnosing and fanboyism. It doesn't help the cause. This board is so filled with it it's hard to judge fact from opinion(and I've been reading the board since the fall of the old usergroup). You want to encourage dissent and then address those criticisms.


Having said all this, I'm still not going to purchase the Xim360. 0 lag and diagonal dampening aren't going to solve the built-in acceleration and aim assist put into all console games these days. It will never provide the experience I want. I had wrong expectations to begin with. In other words, I will have to return to the PC. Without support from Microsoft and the game developers the keyboard and mouse will never be used on the Xbox by any significant portion of gamers.

Obsiv was very honest throughout all of this and I really respect what this guy's done. He's given hope to a small movement of extremely hardcore gamers. My hope is that someone else will see what you guys are doing and pick up the project, provide funding, and perhaps absorb you into a larger company. Or perhaps the modding community will use the Xim360 like we used the XFPS, as a means to create other great projects.

But those who have an Xbox dev kit or Microsoft developer support would have no trouble creating a true mouse peripheral. The difficulty is with the software and the lack of will at Microsoft to emplement a true mouse solution in the living room. If anything, the future is obviously with the Wiimote and other devices with accelerometers(like the iPhone). The market that wishes to play FPSes on the mouse/keyboard is insignificant compared to the casual market that now make up the majority of gamers worldwide.

I do understand that this is still in beta / test phase and you want to see how the online store for all the Xim fanboys goes before talking to playasia or other more mainstream retailers. It would be great if you can get your act together before the Xbox 360 gets retired for the next generation of consoles. In my eyes, once you decided to stop selling the parts as a DIY kit you've stepped away from the mod scene and into the for-profit commercial arena. Stick to being a small insignificant mod and no one will have any reason to criticize the Xim.

Nice post dude, you deserve a +!

I believe that part of the "blatant brownnosing and fanboyism" comes from people having different experiences in FPS. Put to the extreme, there are people out there who actually like the XFPS.

You are right about some of the problems the xim cannot solve. Rotation speed cap and the auto-aim will remain, no matter what. The built-in acceleration, though, might be solved. There is a project going that aims to extract the input translation of the games trough video analysis. If it proceeds well, we should be able to really get the input linear. I guess that this would already improve a lot the feeling, especially if you have experience with pc fps.
« Last Edit: 09:35 AM - 01/09/09 by Memento_Mori »

technogiant

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Really when you consider that this is custom made electronics and custom made software it's not surprising it costs more than mass produced junk...also the product needs to use the wired controller which the xim team have to buy at full price....I suppose if the team were going to go into full scale production then they would need to get a license from microsoft and redevelop the board just containing the security chip and xim hardware (so cutting out the controller cost) and then mass produce them so as to reduce the per unit production costs....I can understand why the team haven't gone down this route....at this stage I don't think xim2 is a mass market product....it has its problems...you have to have a pc in close proximity...and really how many people are tech savvy enough to deal with all the configuration set up etc...so at this time I think the custom made route was the only one available....it might be that with future development...and I don't presume to know the teams plans for xim3...but xim3 as I understand it will not need a PC may well be proceeding down that route with simple downloadable configurations premade on the website. To be honest I'm suprised you haven't been made an offer you can't refuse by a large company already who would have the resources to implement all this in one go.
« Last Edit: 03:25 AM - 01/09/09 by technogiant »

Offline OMGsus

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Nice post dude, you deserve a +!

I believe that part of the "blatant brownnosing and fanboyism" comes from people having different experiences in FPS. Put to the extreme, there are people out there who actually like the XFPS.

You are right about some of the problems the xim cannot solve. Rotation speed cap and the auto-aim will remain, no matter what. The built-in acceleration, though, might be solved. There is a project going that aims to extract the input translation of the games trough video analysis. If it proceeds well, we should be able to really get the input linear. I guess that this would already improve a lot the feeling, especially if you have experience with pc fps.


Unless I am missing some sarcasm I still fail to see anything we havent already discussed in the past. This is just a bunch of our blog and forum posts on the ideas of XIM and XFPs limitations rolled into one.

If anything, this really shows me how we continue to need this information detailed, and cataloged in one place because we keep bringing up the same things over and over again like they are some previously unknown points.

Offline Juncti

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If anything, this really shows me how we continue to need this information detailed, and cataloged in one place because we keep bringing up the same things over and over again like they are some previously unknown points.

Gospel. Preach on!

We have that FAQ, but I don't think that even covers all this.

We really need an all inclusive information section.

XIM1 - Can do all this, requires this and that, can do PS3 if you do this, ect...

XIM1 Rev2 - See XIM1...

XIM-PS3 Model (Hypothetical, doesn't really exist yet) - This is what this could do

XIM2 Batch 1 - 150 DIY's went out, it does all this, is now discontinued for new flex

XIM2 Flex - Newest model, coming soon, still has 3 dacs, can still do all this, ect...

XIM3 (Hypothetical, doesn't really exist yet) - May do these things


If we can gather all that into some kind of Wiki type deal that would PWN!  8)

Offline Aceright

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If anything, this really shows me how we continue to need this information detailed, and cataloged in one place because we keep bringing up the same things over and over again like they are some previously unknown points.

Gospel. Preach on!

We have that FAQ, but I don't think that even covers all this.

We really need an all inclusive information section.

XIM1 - Can do all this, requires this and that, can do PS3 if you do this, ect...

XIM1 Rev2 - See XIM1...

XIM-PS3 Model (Hypothetical, doesn't really exist yet) - This is what this could do

XIM2 Batch 1 - 150 DIY's went out, it does all this, is now discontinued for new flex

XIM2 Flex - Newest model, coming soon, still has 3 dacs, can still do all this, ect...

XIM3 (Hypothetical, doesn't really exist yet) - May do these things


If we can gather all that into some kind of Wiki type deal that would PWN!  8)

Traditionally this is what a website and navigation bar are for ;)

Offline OMGsus

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If anything, this really shows me how we continue to need this information detailed, and cataloged in one place because we keep bringing up the same things over and over again like they are some previously unknown points.

Gospel. Preach on!

We have that FAQ, but I don't think that even covers all this.

We really need an all inclusive information section.

XIM1 - Can do all this, requires this and that, can do PS3 if you do this, ect...

XIM1 Rev2 - See XIM1...

XIM-PS3 Model (Hypothetical, doesn't really exist yet) - This is what this could do

XIM2 Batch 1 - 150 DIY's went out, it does all this, is now discontinued for new flex

XIM2 Flex - Newest model, coming soon, still has 3 dacs, can still do all this, ect...

XIM3 (Hypothetical, doesn't really exist yet) - May do these things


If we can gather all that into some kind of Wiki type deal that would PWN!  8)

Traditionally this is what a website and navigation bar are for ;)

Funny thing is there is a lot of this stuff there. (some has been recently modified/moved/temporarily deleted.. but only RECENTLY).

I dont think people have been really browsing the site. In any case, as soon as I get some info I can put the new pages up and get some graphs and pretty pictures. I have to go through OBsIV for some of this stuff and I have yet to send it to him. I want to get it all there since he's pretty busy.

Until then, this is like outsiders walking in on a group of people in mid conversation and butting in without listening.

Offline SuicidalSniper

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Couldn't you use the XIM2 to use the Wii's controllers on the XBOX 360?  I saw a video of the XIM1 doing this on Halo 2.

Offline sebastian9

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Couldn't you use the XIM2 to use the Wii's controllers on the XBOX 360?  I saw a video of the XIM1 doing this on Halo 2.

Yes you can.

Offline Cyclone

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Couldn't you use the XIM2 to use the Wii's controllers on the XBOX 360?  I saw a video of the XIM1 doing this on Halo 2.

Yes you can.

I've been trying to get the wiimote working with the profile for it but just doesn't seem to be working for me atm.  :'(

technogiant

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I've been trying to get the wiimote working with the profile for it but just doesn't seem to be working for me atm.  :'(

Don't you have to use glovepie software with the Wii remote to make it work?

Offline SKAG187

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I do believe so, you will also need a wireless sensor bar. I am not using the wii-mote just yet, but as I understand it breaks down like this;
first get a wireless sensor bar and a wii-mote obviously then you wil need to get the wii-mote to "talk" to the pc using a bluetooth dongle (these are prety cheap) details available on line just google it. then once the PC see's the wii-mote as a bluetooth hid you then will use a program called glove-pie to assign movement and keys, then use the xim software to configure the actions for the game. not for the novice as it is a lot of steps to go through but if you have all of the stuff, and go through all of the steps it would be really cool.
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