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Messages - Joker76

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31
So, I emailed Yamaha about Silent Cinema. Here is their response.

Quote
Application/Technical Support
Model: RX-V373

Good day,

I'm trying to determine which receiver modes on the RX-V373 will engage Silent Cinema for headphone listening, and the manual is not very clear on this. Specifically, if using STRAIGHT mode, will it still engage Silent Cinema when you plug in headphones? Please help me clarify.

Thank you.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
ref:_00D30F1z._50030TUdF7:ref

Yes, Silent Cinema is engaged automatically when headphones are plugged in.


Best Regards,
The Yamaha Customer Support Team
P.S. Please do not remove the " [ref: " in the Email Subject when replying to this email.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for the reply Ken.

So, you're saying that Silent Cinema is engaged when headphones are plugged in, regardless of which mode is selected?
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes.

32
Beta / Re: Re: Headset Audio XBone
« on: 07:04 AM - 03/03/14 »
He must be talking about the February update that didn't do much.

There is another update coming in March, just before Titanfall launches with some much larger changes. There are significant changes to the party and chat systems, and the addition of Dolby as an audio option over optical, amongst other things (see full list at the link below). Myself, and many others are in the 'preview' stage for this update right now and I must say everything seems more responsive overall.  It's still far from perfect, but it's a big step in the right direction.

http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/02/28/xbox-one-march-update-lots-of-details-emerge-on-features-first-twitch-streams-available/

33
Beta / Re: Xbox One Beta update 3/2/2014
« on: 06:59 AM - 03/03/14 »
The 'stick changes' went in during the February update. I asked mist in another thread if he would be able to re-run the deadzoner on some games to see if there were any changes for STs, but I'm not sure he saw it.

Quote
Update: According to a Microsoft spokesperson, the controller tweak will be part of the February update to the Xbox One, and will automatically take effect when an Xbox One controller syncs with the console. Specifically, it will "increase the sensitivity of the outer boundaries of the thumbsticks on the Xbox One controller."

34
Btw, Joker, your own quotation from AV Forums actually says the opposite of what you're claiming it says. :)

Quote
STRAIGHT doesn't engage any processing regardless of input or format so you'd not be able to create pseudo surround or use surround decoder modes irrespective of what the source audio is.

"You'd not be able to create pseudo surround." In other words, no Silent Cinema, as the current Yamaha manual very strongly implies and the older one comes straight out and says.

It seems absolutely clear to me that STRAIGHT is the equivalent of Dolby Bypass on a DSS.

LOL, you can't just take one sentence of that whole post out of context and then say "in other words" and put in your own meaning. He clearly says in the full post that Silent Cinema is being engaged with STRAIGHT mode. Someone with 24,000+ posts and 4,000+ thank yous on a well-respected forum.

And the only Yamaha manual that supports your opinion is from a 5+ year older receiver. The V373 manual does not, unless you put some spin on the actual wording in the manual. Nowhere does it say that STRAIGHT mode does not engage Silent Cinema.

I don't see how testing a different receiver with different virtualization technologies is going to help settle this debate. You're equating STRAIGHT mode to BYPASS mode on other receivers/Mixamp, but I'm trying to convince you that STRAIGHT =/= BYPASS.

At this point, I don't think we are going to solve this unless one of us buys the receiver in question and tests it. Even then I'm not sure if we'd be willing to take each others word for it  ;D. Let's just agree to disagree on this and move on. As someone else mentioned, as long as janki is getting an experience he wants, it really doesn't matter.

35
Beta / Re: ObsIV - still on track for a new build today?
« on: 07:47 AM - 03/01/14 »
Plus most of his original posts were conveniently edited which doesnít help his case much. Anyway this thread has been one big waste of time, Iím looking forward to XIM4E on PS4 soon and Iím sure the audio issue will be fully resolved for Xbox guys in due course.

You can only edit a post for about 30 minutes (not sure the exact amount of time). My posts were edited for spelling, I'm not back tracking on anything I said. The fact that someone can take a sentence like "This is where I think we need some clarification" and describe it as 'whining' or 'demanding' or 'entitled' is really beyond my realm of understanding.

You are right, the thread has been a big waste of time. There has been no beneficial discussion since the first page, just 6 more pages of people attacking and defending themselves to each other. That was not my intent when I made the thread so I'm going to request that it be locked so everyone can go about their business.

36
Beta / Re: ObsIV - still on track for a new build today?
« on: 10:11 PM - 02/28/14 »
Wow, so much whining from OP and others in this thread. Not sure where this sense of entitlement comes from, but given that the Xim4e is functional for Xbox One, I am fine and think it is the right choice to get PS4 support working over audio pass-through.

What whining? The part when I said I understand why PS4 takes precedence? Or the part when I thanked them for their work and asked if there was a build we could at least help test?

Yeah, total entitlement complex.  :o

The internet - 5% reading comprehension, 95% mob mentality.

37
So what you're saying is that janki is only getting a STEREO signal when using STRAIGHT.

The users manual you linked is for a completely different product that is 5+ years older than the model we're discussing. I'd be more inclined to believe someone on a reputable forum who owns the product in question, and appears to have done some extensive testing.

I'm tempted to order the RX-V373 and test for myself. But my wife would kill me  ;)

38
@Joker76 You may be correct since you are reading the manual lmao I never read the manual I just read user's opinions online and used this "Straight Mode" and then gave my thoughts on it. Sure other receiver companies have their equivalent of "Straight Mode" but unfortunately I haven't had the pleasure to use or test them out. There might in fact be a receiver that can reproduce a better sound out the Xbox1 Or PS4 better accuracy-wise and clarity-wise I really know know.

The fact is "Striaght Mode" is the most natural full sounding audio this particular Yamaha and probably the more expensive yamaha Receivers at the top of the range can produce if you want positional awareness of your enemies. I have tried the other presets the more intense virtualizations and they just aren't for gaming they sound like completely different frequencies all together. Footsteps sound like far away when they really are around the corner...not natural at all.

There may be some processing in "Straight Mode" but it is minimal at best and like I said soooo easy to position enemies. I can make a video of the damage I do if you'd like for you to understand what I am talking about lol.

No need to explain or make videos, I believe you are getting surround sound. But I think it's engaging Silent Cinema using the 5.1 (or 7.1) source from the XB1. Which is a good thing!

I'm not here to try and discredit anyone, just having a healthy discussion with facts about something I'm passionate about. Whatever you're doing works for you, and that's all that matters!

39
I'm pretty confident in saying that janki is getting Silent Cinema, even in Straight mode.

Here is a quote I found from someone at AVForum:

Quote
No, Silent Cinema doesn't need you to use any mode to activate it. If the source audio is a multichannel format such as Dolby Digital 5.1 then Silent Cinema would create pseudo surround output for the headphone output without need of surround decoder modes. If the format is a stereo format, you'd need to use a surround decoder mode such as Dolby Pro Logic or DTS:NEO to create pseudo surround from it and this would also engage Silent Cinema. Think of it like this, whatever the format, if you can hear surround sound via your speakers then you'll also get surround sound via your headphones in conjunction with Silent Cinema.

STRAIGHT doesn't engage any processing regardless of input or format so you'd not be able to create pseudo surround or use surround decoder modes irrespective of what the source audio is. Also note that you are not forced to use STRAIGHT while bitsreaming audio to the receiver!
...
No there's no indicator for Silent Cinema. If the audio is surround sound, either a discrete format or pseudo surround create by a surround decoder mode then Silent Cinema is engaged and you do not need to turn it on or off.
http://www.avforums.com/threads/yamaha-rx-v373-hiss-through-pcm-audio.1808146/

The bottom line is this; you cannot get SURROUND SOUND on STEREO headphones without some type of decoding and virtualization. It's physically impossible. If a signal gets passed through without being decoded or post-processed, you're only going to hear the front 2 channels in your headset. Which is STEREO.

Ultimately, I suppose it doesn't matter much if he is getting an experience he enjoys. I just want to make sure anyone who might find this thread is informed and has all the facts before buying a surround processing system, whether it's a receiver or dedicated gaming peripheral.

40
Beta / Re: ObsIV - still on track for a new build today?
« on: 10:28 AM - 02/28/14 »
finally :)

i regard the compatibility of a whole console on a much higher priority than some minor chat issues with the xbox one that you can path around by using a second controller to party chat with
(see tutorial in the xim4 beta sub section)
besides that the kinect 2.0 is a fairly good alternative too

Not everyone has a 2nd controller, and not everyone games exclusively in parties (which is required for Kinect chat). So the workaround is not effective for everyone.

I think where most frustration is going to come from is we were led to believe it was very close. It's team xim's call on what gets priority tho. I'd rather have them be open with us on things like this than hush, hush and not know what's going on. Thanks for that!

Is confidence high that this problem will get resolved by launch of xim4?

This is where I think we need some clarification. We were led to believe that audio passthrough was close for the past 3 weeks, only to be told now that focus is shifting away to another issue. Without trying to go on a roads-esque crusade, I understand why focus is shifting to PS4 but that doesn't mean we're happy about it. With only 31 days left until the end of Q1 I think the community is wondering if the XIM4 is still on schedule to launch by the end of the quarter?

If there is anything we can do as testers to help get audio working on XBone, please let us know. We are here to be your guinea pigs, even if things are buggy.

41
Beta / Re: ObsIV - still on track for a new build today?
« on: 10:15 AM - 02/28/14 »
Remember this is a free open beta.

It's not really free when we all had to buy additional hardware to help you test it. Again, I understand why Ps4 functionality would take priority but maybe you can at least release what you have so far, and allow the testers to help with the audio bugs?

I'd also like to point out that Kinect chat only works if you're in a party. So those people who might be playing solo have no option to utilize game chat.

42
Beta / Re: ObsIV - still on track for a new build today?
« on: 10:07 AM - 02/28/14 »
But I think the audio should be a priority. I think most of us have been waiting since the 14th for the Xim4e to process chat communications. It's been pushed out several times.

I'm a little frustrated as well, but keep in mind the PS4 folks have been waiting much longer for KB/M support at all. At least we have some functionality.

I'd just like to ask for ObsIV, if possible, for a reasonable date when the next build might be. If it's 4 weeks from now, that's fine I just feel like it keeps getting pushed back a week at a time (for 3 weeks now) and getting everyone's hopes up.

Or release audio passthrough with the existing bugs. Who knows, we might even be able to help you isolate the problem and fix it sooner.

We know you're working hard and we all thank you.

43
Beta / Re: Will this BT work?
« on: 09:27 AM - 02/28/14 »
I bought an orico brand from amazon with the same chipset as the supported one and it works just fine. Maybe I got Lucky.

Same here. Been using the BTA-403 without issues.
http://www.amazon.com/ORICO-BTA-402-Bluetooth-Adapter-Controller/dp/B00AKO7XOW

I also have a Laird on hand, but have not used it because the Orico has been working just fine. However, YMMV and you will not receive support for BT issues if you use a non-Laird adapter as Mist mentioned.

44
Beta / ObsIV - still on track for a new build today?
« on: 08:23 AM - 02/28/14 »
Just curious. It's been 3 weeks since the last build, and we are all anxious to help squash more bugs. Keep us posted!

Edit: The other ETA thread got seriously derailed, so let's try to keep this one on topic. Thanks!

45
Straight mode is surround sound. It's just not virtualization.
...
The Straight Mode option is a raw uninterrupted signal from your Xbox to your headphones forget that the receiver is there it really doesn't play a factor it's just a vehicle to transport the sound from your console to your headphones uninterrupted.

This is not really correct.

The mode is literally called 'Straight Decode Mode'. The receiver is still decoding the source signal, not simply passing it through untouched. It's just not applying any post-processing (except bass management and YPAO).

'Pure Direct' is similar to 'Straight Decode', except it also disables bass management and YPAO.

Now, in reading the user manual it doesn't specifically say when (or in which modes) Silent Cinema is enabled.
Quote
You can enjoy surround or sound field effects, like a multichannel speaker system, with stereo headphones by connecting the headphones to the PHONES jack and selecting a sound program or a surround decoder.

Therefore, if you are using stereo headphones in Straight mode, you may still be getting Silent Cinema virtualization because decoding and some post-processing is still being done. Otherwise, you're only getting a stereo output. Those are the only 2 options for your receiver via headphones - Silent Cinema virtualization or Stereo. DTS and Dolby signals are not reproduced in your headphones.

Besides the few devices linked earlier in the thread, there are no receivers which have DTS virtualized surround via headphones. It will be interesting to see if any manufacturers pick up DTS Headphone:X in the future, but as of right now there is only one set of headphones using this technology and it's the Turtle Beach i60s. But I doubt these can be used on the XBone currently because they connect via Bluetooth. http://www.turtlebeach.com/product-detail/iseries-headsets/ear-force-i60/391

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