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Messages - ferenz

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This is great work...it took me about 30 seconds to copy/paste your setup code and update my mouse to 4000/1000 in LGS, after which everything felt great immediately with no further tweaking necessary. Thanks a ton for the effort and sharing!

Yes, timing and synchronization occurs just like any other USB device (like your mouse). I should mention also that Xbox controller sticks report at 256x higher resolution than PS sticks as well.

That's really interesting, and it ties into another thought I had but dismissed in favor of the timing error theory. I wondered if it were possible that cross platform PS4 games were specifically tuned to the resolution/timing rate of the Dualshock 4, and if that could cause some subtle difference in aiming when using a higher resolution/rate controller. I'm not the slightest big of an electrical engineer, all of my knowledge is abstract math/software, but my assumption is that syncing a higher resolution/rate sample with a lower resolution rate/sample should always be cleaner than the opposite because more information is available. So from that logic the resolution question didn't really make sense any more than the sample rate question.

Really, I'm just desperate to find some justification for not selling this elite controller because I think it's a really neat piece of tech, but as it stands I can't adjust to playing PS4 games with it and I don't play FPS games with a controller on my PC. Maybe it's just in my head because I'm not as comfortable with the xbone sticks, or maybe it's some controller configuration issue somewhere in the pipeline. It doesn't sound like there's any obvious technical reason, at least.


Actually, maybe I just didn't search with the right keywords. Found a couple other posts with people posing similar questions (but unfortunately no follow up responses to indicate resolution)



I wasn't able to read your entire post

I mean, I knew it was long and possibly nonsensical, but I didn't realize it was so bad that people wouldn't be able to finish reading it :p

Thanks for your response OBsIV - I'll take it to mean that the timing between the controller output and console input should always be aligned such that the timing error I mentioned should never occur. Something is definitely off when using my xb elite controller on my ps4, but I guess it must be something environmental. If anybody sees this post later and happens to have similar problems with an elite controller on ps4 I'd love to hear more, otherwise I'll just stop obsessing about it and try out some other configurations.

Warning - long and technical post that may not make sense outside of my own head

I've used the controller crossover functionality previously with a PS4 scuf controller running on XBOne, and I found the input to feel perfectly consistent vs the XBOne controller experience. Recently, I purchased an XBOne elite controller, and when using the crossover functionality with my PS4 I'm finding the experience feel significantly more problematic than the opposite configuration. In my testing recently with both Doom and Titanfall 4, I feel a definite latency on the right analog stick, and the input just feels slightly less consistent in a way I find difficult to describe. The frustrum/camera has a definite 'jump' when moving the analog stick from the center position, as though it's catching up to previously buffered (or lost) input, and the overall experience feels like the game is sampling input at a rate that is just slightly off vs the feed from the controller. It's subtle enough that I've been hesitant to ask about it, but as someone who is extremely sensitive to input latency, it's still significant enough that I've quit using the elite controller for PS4 FPS games. I know that many people are using elite controllers on PS4, and certainly I can't be the only xim user who is latency-sensitive, so I'm puzzled as to why I'm having such a significant issue but I can't find any previous mention of it in the forums.

Considering the technical details has led me to some thoughts/questions about what's happening under the hood. I believe that the PS4 sample rate is 8ms, but how does that contrast with the XBOne controller output? Does the controller output at a 4ms interval (to match the XBOne sampling rate), and if so couldn't that lead to a larger potential for input latency if the timing were slightly off? It's a similar scenario to the concepts of input latency with graphics related to frame drops and vsync. If you have a 4ms output rate that you're attempting to feed into an 8ms input rate, it means that your timing error could potentially be up to 7ms on each tick. Or, if you consider the possibility that the output ticks again and you take the second tick, the timing error max drops to 3ms but the judder potential for the output has doubled because you're dropping output values on every tick? By comparison, the opposite scenario (PS4 controller into XBOne) actually has a lower potential for timing error because the output rate (8ms) is half of the input rate (4ms) which leads to a maximum timing error of 3ms on each tick with no possibility for dropped output values. Regardless of whether you feel that the timing error is negligible, the potential for timing error (either latency or judder) is still technically over twice as high on the XBOne to PS4 configuration, right? This is the reason that, when using a mouse configuration, the sample rate and turn speed for the game (input) are the deciding factors in how accurate the mouse movement is rather than the DPI of the mouse (output)?

For the record, my elite controller is using the default (linear) analog input setting on both sticks, and I have seen nothing to indicate any fundamental input/output problems on the controller itself. My xim4 is wired to my PC and I use sandhawc for profile management at the same time that the XBone elite controller is plugged into the second input port on the Xim4, so I'm also wondering if there's any potential for extra latency or timing issues with this configuration due to the input being potentially routed through the PC on its way to the PS4. I've considered the possibility that the difference in stick resistance between the PS4 controller and XBOne controller is causing the input inconsistency (the flaw here being my muscle memory rather than the technical systems in play), but I've had a lot of experience with input/timing analysis over the years (more on the graphics side) and it just doesn't feel like the issue is that simple. For comparison, I own the same games on XBone and PC, and when I use the XBOne controller (elite or otherwise) in those environments for the same game the input feels latency free and perfectly consistent.

I'm perfectly happy to accept the answer that there is a potential for increased latency from XBOne controller -> PS4 crossover but that it's so negligible that most people will never notice. It wouldn't fix my problem, but it would make me feel less frustrated in wondering why I can't play comfortably with a setup that everyone else seems to have no trouble with.

Game Support / Re: Final Fantasty 15 Smart Translator
« on: 07:50 PM - 12/08/16 »
why would anyone play a 3rd person RPG with XIM? i can't seem to wrap my mind around it  :o

In my case, it's because FFXV has a lot of wasted time where you're watching load screens, car travel, etc. I use the sandhawc functionality to allow me to swap m+kb between my PC and PS4, and often I work on one monitor while I play a game on the other. I'd like to have this option so that I can work during long car rides etc without having to pick up and put down a controller every 30 seconds. Also, some xim customers are people who have disabilities and use m+kb because they can't physically use a controller. So, you know, there's that.

Commander / Re: Version 1.3 feedback
« on: 06:09 PM - 11/23/16 »
This still seems to be the case. I updated to 1.3 and hit it immediately, reverting back to 1.2. Glad I found this topic, I was going crazy trying to figure out what changed in my mouse/keyboard apps.

Thanks for your work W11cE, overall Sandhawc continues to function much more effectively than Commander did. Hopefully the 1.3 fixes won't cause you too much headache.

Game Support / Re: Titanfall 2
« on: 09:07 PM - 10/28/16 »
Theoretically the linear option should be ideal, right? Wouldn't that correspond to the 1:1 input that would be the easiest to accurately translate to mouse movement? I'm someone who absolutely hates input acceleration of any kind, and both the high velocity and linear options felt very natural to me. I would think that the inclusion of all these options, especially one that claims to send raw input, would make it an ideal game to train an ST for. Is that accurate or am I misunderstanding the tech?

Game Support / Re: Battlefield 1
« on: 08:51 AM - 10/19/16 »
how the hell do you deactivate the aim assist? what's the name of both options?

Game Support / Re: Battlefield 1
« on: 04:56 PM - 10/18/16 »
If you're using xim for battlefield 1 make sure to disable both of the aim assist options in gameplay->advanced. The snap mode in particular will play absolute havoc with mouse aiming, I had it enabled accidentally during the first turret scene in the intro and it felt like I was attempting to aim a fireman's hose one handed.

Game Support / Re: Battlefield 1
« on: 09:08 AM - 10/18/16 »
Wouldn't the BF4 st be based on the frostbite engine as it was 3 years ago? I would imagine there have been a lot of tweaks from BF4 -> Hardline -> Battlefront -> Battlefield 1, so I'd assume Battlefront would be the best option as it's the latest release.

I'm not sure I understand the comment regarding training against low dead-zone. The dead-zone should do nothing more than define a radius wherein the input is not registered. Why would a lower dead-zone setting reduce(expand?) the granularity of the remaining input radius? It sounds like what you're claiming is that Massive modified the input granularity based on the dead-zone setting, which sounds like terrible design/math.

I tested the original PS4 release against the PC version (accidentally bought PS4 first and sony don't play no takebacks) and my overwhelming feeling was that the console versions had a far-too-large deadzone similar to the Halo 5 release. When I tried out the Xim4 ST for the first time and found that there was a significant latency for initial input I figured it was related to fighting with that huge dead-zone.

What you're saying is that allowing users to lower the dead-zone setting provides no potential improvement to the ST at all? That's a pretty @#$% sad state of affairs if so, it's pretty bad when an fps/tps developer isn't even offering enough granularity in their input to perform fast, accurate movement for their main camera.

Edit: I'm not criticizing your work, I'm just really bummed that the improvement they made with 1.1 to give players more granular control over their input didn't improve the ST, which sounds like the case based on what I'm reading?

If you haven't done so, make sure you disable both auto aim options. They cause significant latency with mouse aiming in my experience. As far as I can tell, the max turn speed is quite high in dying light so with maxed sensitivity in game and a higher-than-normal sensitivity in your xim4 config you can get a decently precise mouse feeling. Also, when creating a new config the manager tells you to leave the dead zone at default; I found this to be causing a lot of the input latency/acceleration feeling I was experiencing. When I reduced the dead zone to the minimum it felt much more responsive. It's not quite as clean as something like Black Ops 3, but it feels acceptable to me.

Edit: I should add some caveats. It still has a nasty acceleration with larger turns and does not feel  1:1 with the base ST. Also, the ADS is buggy as the toggle option appears to cause issues with the in-game button registration; when you turn on toggle for your ADS key, it seems to capture the keypress and not pass it on every other click.

I suspect a lot of that aiming wonkiness is built into the console engine implementation based on how it also seems to have a similar floaty, imprecise "behind the frame" feeling to camera movement on controller. If you really care about precision mouse support I'd say the PC version is the only real option at this point.

Second Edit: I see that my understanding of the "toggle" option for ADS is incorrect. It's working as in intended, just not designed for this use.

Commander / Re: SandhawC feedback
« on: 06:58 PM - 02/04/16 »
I haven't used my Xim4 for several months - picked it back up and checked the forums to find this gem. This is excellent work,  a cohesive package that makes it far easier to share m+kb than the previous solution. Thanks for your work.

Sure thing, let me know how the elite works for you - I may sell my scuf and pick one up later this year also.

That's an excellent question that I can't answer as mine is the PS4 version. Since all four paddles map to values in a closed set of signal inputs (ie you can't just create "new" buttons with them, they map to signals that already exist) then you should have usage of all four assuming that they send the identical input for the original button they map to. I don't think there would be any difference between two paddles or four paddles, all of that work is handled internally in the controller before the input ever even gets sent to Xim (I think :))

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