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Topics - ferenz

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Warning - long and technical post that may not make sense outside of my own head

I've used the controller crossover functionality previously with a PS4 scuf controller running on XBOne, and I found the input to feel perfectly consistent vs the XBOne controller experience. Recently, I purchased an XBOne elite controller, and when using the crossover functionality with my PS4 I'm finding the experience feel significantly more problematic than the opposite configuration. In my testing recently with both Doom and Titanfall 4, I feel a definite latency on the right analog stick, and the input just feels slightly less consistent in a way I find difficult to describe. The frustrum/camera has a definite 'jump' when moving the analog stick from the center position, as though it's catching up to previously buffered (or lost) input, and the overall experience feels like the game is sampling input at a rate that is just slightly off vs the feed from the controller. It's subtle enough that I've been hesitant to ask about it, but as someone who is extremely sensitive to input latency, it's still significant enough that I've quit using the elite controller for PS4 FPS games. I know that many people are using elite controllers on PS4, and certainly I can't be the only xim user who is latency-sensitive, so I'm puzzled as to why I'm having such a significant issue but I can't find any previous mention of it in the forums.

Considering the technical details has led me to some thoughts/questions about what's happening under the hood. I believe that the PS4 sample rate is 8ms, but how does that contrast with the XBOne controller output? Does the controller output at a 4ms interval (to match the XBOne sampling rate), and if so couldn't that lead to a larger potential for input latency if the timing were slightly off? It's a similar scenario to the concepts of input latency with graphics related to frame drops and vsync. If you have a 4ms output rate that you're attempting to feed into an 8ms input rate, it means that your timing error could potentially be up to 7ms on each tick. Or, if you consider the possibility that the output ticks again and you take the second tick, the timing error max drops to 3ms but the judder potential for the output has doubled because you're dropping output values on every tick? By comparison, the opposite scenario (PS4 controller into XBOne) actually has a lower potential for timing error because the output rate (8ms) is half of the input rate (4ms) which leads to a maximum timing error of 3ms on each tick with no possibility for dropped output values. Regardless of whether you feel that the timing error is negligible, the potential for timing error (either latency or judder) is still technically over twice as high on the XBOne to PS4 configuration, right? This is the reason that, when using a mouse configuration, the sample rate and turn speed for the game (input) are the deciding factors in how accurate the mouse movement is rather than the DPI of the mouse (output)?

For the record, my elite controller is using the default (linear) analog input setting on both sticks, and I have seen nothing to indicate any fundamental input/output problems on the controller itself. My xim4 is wired to my PC and I use sandhawc for profile management at the same time that the XBone elite controller is plugged into the second input port on the Xim4, so I'm also wondering if there's any potential for extra latency or timing issues with this configuration due to the input being potentially routed through the PC on its way to the PS4. I've considered the possibility that the difference in stick resistance between the PS4 controller and XBOne controller is causing the input inconsistency (the flaw here being my muscle memory rather than the technical systems in play), but I've had a lot of experience with input/timing analysis over the years (more on the graphics side) and it just doesn't feel like the issue is that simple. For comparison, I own the same games on XBone and PC, and when I use the XBOne controller (elite or otherwise) in those environments for the same game the input feels latency free and perfectly consistent.

I'm perfectly happy to accept the answer that there is a potential for increased latency from XBOne controller -> PS4 crossover but that it's so negligible that most people will never notice. It wouldn't fix my problem, but it would make me feel less frustrated in wondering why I can't play comfortably with a setup that everyone else seems to have no trouble with.

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It struck me recently that too many FPS games are still not including separate sensitivity settings for different gunplay states (regular, ads, sniping, etc) and that it really hampers your ability to fine-tune the aiming for your personal tastes. Xim4 provides this functionality for mouse look via the profile system, which makes sense because it is a device primarily marketed at players who want to M+KB for console games. For my personal tastes, as someone who sits at a m+kb for the other 12 hours of my day already, I still prefer using controllers for relaxing and tend to switch to m+kb only when I need the performance boost. Lately I've been using the cross controller functionality to swap my Scuf Controller between my XBone and PS4, a Xim4 capability that I've really appreciated/enjoyed. I'd love the ability to enhance this by also adding custom sensitivities for different activation modes, but I don't see any options for changing "joystick" sensitivity outside of the default mode. Is that due to complexities in the hardware pipeline from controller -> Xim4 -> console, or is it just because nobody has ever requested it or it was not deemed a high priority? If it's possible to do this I think it would be a very neat enhancement allowing users to further customize their play in a significant way.

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I was curious about the latency involved with the cross controller functionality; in this example I'm considering the usage of  PS4 controller on Xbox One. My assumption is that there must be a bit of additional latency involved in translating the input through the Xim4, but that since the connections are all wired it would still be less latency than you would see with the same-console controller running wirelessly. I haven't noticed any significant latency in my setup, this is just a technical interest question.

Also, is the input domain for the analog sticks the same on both controllers, aka is the translation direct 1:1 for analog movement or does it have to be scaled?

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I'd like to gather some data as this random input switch problem might be tricky to debug. If you've experienced the issue recently please let me know which consoles you're using when the problem occurs. If you're experiencing the problem using multiple consoles please choose the last option so I know the issue is not console specific.

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I'm considering picking up a second Xim4 to setup on my Xbox One as I haven't found any satisfactory way to switch between consoles without buying several switch devices and/or having to unplug/replug controllers every time etc. My setup would be a mouse/keyboard connected to PC with one usb transfer cable connected to each Xim4 (so two transfer cables in total). I would attempt to create two manager instances in commander mode, one paired to each device, and then use the normal Commander window/hotkey to switch input between each device. Based on what I understand about how the Xim4 functions with Commander mode I don't see any issues with this setup, but can anyone confirm/deny this idea before I buy a second device?

Edit: Actually now that I think about it I'm not sure that I'd be able to select each device explicitly for the manager instance, it seems like it might just pickup the first device it finds via usb transfer cable? So maybe it won't work after all. If that's the case maybe I could run a usb switch on the transfer cable and use it to swap between devices before I load up Manager/Commander? I should note that I'm a professional C/C++ developer so if the Xim device selection in Commander mode is available for editing in the source (I think I saw somewhere that the project was open for development maybe?) then I could possibly tweak it myself.

Edit Edit: I should also point out that my desired setup requires sharing the mouse/keyboard with my PC, in case that wasn't clear. So it's not just a simple switch between two consoles, the PC must be able to access the mouse/keyboard as well. I'm also open to any other suggestions on how to possibly share the mouse/keyboard across all three devices that I haven't considered.

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Technical Support / [Q/A] Xim4 KVM Hot Swap Crash on PS4
« on: 10:50 AM - 06/18/15 »
Hi,
I've got the iogear KVM (http://www.amazon.com/IOGEAR-2-Port-Switch-Cables-GCS22U/dp/B001D1UTC4/) setup to swap my mouse/keyboard between the Xim4 and my PC. I bought it based on recommendations in these forums. When I have my Xim4 hooked up to my Xbox One, the KVM switch works perfectly and I am able to swap back and forth with no issues. However, when I switch to my PS4 the majority of the time I swap back to the PS4 from PC the Xim4 light goes white and I'm forced to unplug/replug the Xim4 into my PS4 console. I have hot swapping enabled in the global menu, btw. I've read a couple similar complaints in the forums and the answers have generally involved suspicion that the mouse/keyboard are sending erroneous data that the Xim4 is unable to handle which causes the crash, but I find it quite strange that it only happens with the PS4 then and not with the Xbox One. Is anyone having success with a similar hot swap setup on PS4, or is it possible the hardware design for the PS4 is causing some signal conflicts that make hot swapping more prone to crashing? Any suggestions would be appreciated, this significantly impacts my enjoyment of the Xim4 as I don't have the desk space to have multiple keyboard/mouse available and having to unplug/replug the Xim4 every time I swap is quite irritating.

Edit: I also see some discussion lately indicating that the Xim Commander stuff may allow me to share mouse/keyboard with the Xim4 from the PC and so possibly bypass this issue. Is that accurate and if so where can I find some information on how to set this up?

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