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XIM APEX => Downloads => Beta => Topic started by: zack on 09:58 PM - 10/31/21

Title: Did you get the sample?
Post by: zack on 09:58 PM - 10/31/21
Hi, just wanna ask did you get the sample from that company? or they keep saying next week.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 10:09 PM - 10/31/21
Well, they "shipped" it last week. The tracking number says the label was created but the carrier hasn't received the package. They state Cronus has been testing for more than a week and are happy with it. So, if you have access to the Cronus forum (all of it is private) then maybe more info will be available over there.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Herpityderp on 12:50 AM - 11/01/21
Well, they "shipped" it last week. The tracking number says the label was created but the carrier hasn't received the package. They state Cronus has been testing for more than a week and are happy with it. So, if you have access to the Cronus forum (all of it is private) then maybe more info will be available over there.

the peeps at T2 say they're in the process of creating their own hardware solution which should be out within 6 months. no idea what that means exactly but they're not known for lying
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: ttplatti on 01:08 AM - 11/01/21
Well, they "shipped" it last week. The tracking number says the label was created but the carrier hasn't received the package. They state Cronus has been testing for more than a week and are happy with it. So, if you have access to the Cronus forum (all of it is private) then maybe more info will be available over there.

Cronus does not talk about it, or i didnt find the post... cronus support is very bad and the members only talk remote play solution but this is no option. xim is the best support and tool
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 01:24 AM - 11/01/21
the peeps at T2 say they're in the process of creating their own hardware solution which should be out within 6 months. no idea what that means exactly but they're not known for lying

A company stealing from one of their former former employees wouldnt lie? Im not sure tbh...
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 01:47 AM - 11/01/21
I think he’s saying that ConsoleTuner is not known for lying, which is accurate.

In the context of Cronus, “employee” is wrong. Business partner and the inventor of Cronus (an evolution of the GamePad Proxy predecessor) is more accurate  :-\ 

We know who the good guys are and it ain’t Cronus. I’d be wary of anyone who gets into business with them.

I’ll wait to see what happens at ConsoleTuner (I know their solution will be bulletproof whereas everything else is vulnerable) and keep an eye out for anything else that pops up around here.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Herpityderp on 11:43 AM - 11/01/21
I think he’s saying that ConsoleTuner is not known for lying, which is accurate.

In the context of Cronus, “employee” is wrong. Business partner and the inventor of Cronus (an evolution of the GamePad Proxy predecessor) is more accurate  :-\ 

We know who the good guys are and it ain’t Cronus. I’d be wary of anyone who gets into business with them.

I’ll wait to see what happens at ConsoleTuner (I know their solution will be bulletproof whereas everything else is vulnerable) and keep an eye out for anything else pops up around here.

correct. their work and general attitude @#$% on the team at Cronus.....
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Boltman on 09:13 PM - 11/01/21
Well at least it's on the way.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Boris228 on 05:28 AM - 11/04/21
https://ibb.co/qxs9xLp
https://ibb.co/0CWxKbP
https://ibb.co/GTf6cZc
https://ibb.co/SXFJP5L
is everyone talking about it?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Swaim on 06:05 AM - 11/04/21
https://ibb.co/qxs9xLp
https://ibb.co/0CWxKbP
https://ibb.co/GTf6cZc
https://ibb.co/SXFJP5L
is everyone talking about it?
can you share product link?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Boris228 on 06:59 AM - 11/04/21
https://ibb.co/qxs9xLp
https://ibb.co/0CWxKbP
https://ibb.co/GTf6cZc
https://ibb.co/SXFJP5L
is everyone talking about it?
can you share product link?
it was just shown.  release date and price will be announced later
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Swaim on 07:08 AM - 11/04/21
where did you so this?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Boris228 on 07:11 AM - 11/04/21
where did you so this?
consider that this is an insider
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Boris228 on 08:55 AM - 11/04/21
where did you so this?
In fact, there is no miracle.  And by and large the new dongle uses the same scheme with Remote Play, only without a PC.  That is, it crashes between PS5 and xim, and itself connects via Wi-Fi to the Five via remote playback (diagram below).  Requires one setup before the first connection, then everything is automatic
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Swaim on 09:07 AM - 11/04/21
where did you so this?
In fact, there is no miracle.  And by and large the new dongle uses the same scheme with Remote Play, only without a PC.  That is, it crashes between PS5 and xim, and itself connects via Wi-Fi to the Five via remote playback (diagram below).  Requires one setup before the first connection, then everything is automatic
If it will work without pc and with good daley it will solve our problem with ps5 games.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Boris228 on 09:27 AM - 11/04/21
where did you so this?
In fact, there is no miracle.  And by and large the new dongle uses the same scheme with Remote Play, only without a PC.  That is, it crashes between PS5 and xim, and itself connects via Wi-Fi to the Five via remote playback (diagram below).  Requires one setup before the first connection, then everything is automatic
If it will work without pc and with good daley it will solve our problem with ps5 games.
I do not think that the delay on wifi will be small
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 10:04 AM - 11/04/21
I do not think that the delay on wifi will be small

That depends on your Wifi setup, the distance and environment. Wifi delay can be very very low, in the range of a few milliseconds. Under poor conditions it can be really high though too.
The bigger problem with Wifi is the amount of packets that get lost.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Boris228 on 10:16 AM - 11/04/21
I do not think that the delay on wifi will be small

That depends on your Wifi setup, the distance and environment. Wifi delay can be very very low, in the range of a few milliseconds. Under poor conditions it can be really high though too.
The bigger problem with Wifi is the amount of packets that get lost.
if this is the only solution, then this is not at all what I was expecting.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 10:22 AM - 11/04/21
This is the device I'll be receiving for evaluation. I was informed that it was Remote Play based only recently. They require wired connection to your console.

I've personally been testing using XIM NEXUS via Chiaki on an Android phone with the wireless adapter connected to the phone to get a sense of a solution like this. Other than Chiaki being flakey, when it's running, I personally couldn't tell I was over Remote Play. Hopefully I'll have a similar experience with this new device.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: BLKAII on 12:00 PM - 11/04/21
Any educated guesses on this thing's estimated price if it releases?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: DerHertog on 12:57 PM - 11/04/21
So how does this device work then? Do i need to have a pc turned on when im gaming all the time? That would suck big time :(
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 02:09 PM - 11/04/21
I don't know how they are going to price it.

The device is standalone. It handles all communication between XIM and the PS5. Input is sent over Wifi/Ethernet instead of USB.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Goofkop on 03:04 PM - 11/04/21
Sold my PS4 with both controllers! And now have a PS5.

Still have my Xim Apex. For this new “Beloader” i need a Dual Shock 4 V2 Controller isn’t it? Then I allready gonna buy a controller  ;D

Hope they will launch it soon!

Update: i also see a Switch Pro controller. Is it may also possible to put the Switch Pro controller in the XIM Apex?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 03:10 PM - 11/04/21
Wifi…babow! Expect lag in the region of 50ms, it’ll be interesting to see if that’s the case under scrutiny. Ethernet should be viable, but it’s no different from using Remote Play now.

The only benefit is a PC isn’t required to use Remote Play, which to be fair is a big one, but the free Chiaki does this already.

Moving forward, I’d be concerned about what happens when Remote Play is updated, which happens pretty regularly lately. Sony can also patch this backdoor whenever they like.

Saw this coming a mile off - there was no way they’d cracked the DualSense. There are only two solutions - Remote Play, which can be patched, and a modchip, which can’t.

It’s a “meh” result that doesn’t solve the problem. I’ll probably wait it out for ConsoleTuner (which will work with XIM but will be relatively expensive) and if any other Remote Play solutions are found. Monetising hardware using Sony’s Remote Play protocol could present a problem.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: AskingAllTheTime on 03:12 PM - 11/04/21
I really hope it has a low latency, Im using chiaki right now, the latency isn't extremely high, but noticable in FPS games, also when spamming one button not every button Is registered. So im really looking foward to use this new device!
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 03:14 PM - 11/04/21
For this new “Beloader” i need a Dual Shock 4 V2 Controller isn’t it?

I think we will add a mode for this that doesn't require any controller be plugged into your XIM APEX. If we don't do that, then any controller will work (even cross console controllers).

replace joysticks with D/A converters

This is like XIM2, and something I'm not enthusiastic about. It's fine for automating digital signals (buttons), but analog you sacrifice in terms about aim performance. It's not ideal.

Remote Play, which can be patched

I'm not sure about this since Remote Play needs to support mobile clients.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 03:22 PM - 11/04/21
Remote Play can be updated to require a DualSense, which could kill the whole thing. Unlikely given DualSense isn’t supported on iOS, but possible.

Wifi is concerning, but the Ethernet component is interesting. I still have my BS filters on high alert. Let’s see how it goes when you receive it :)
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 03:27 PM - 11/04/21
You are right, who knows what we should expect from Sony. I know for Xbox Remote Play and xCloud any Bluetooth capable controller can be paired with your phone and you can game with it. If Sony were to limit even Remote Play to DS5, I think it would essentially kill interest and use in it. But, we will see.

I think the ideal solution for Remote Play would be 100% wired, which would actually be lower latency than USB.

We will evaluate the device of course. I just hope they added an update rate counter like I asked.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: AskingAllTheTime on 03:29 PM - 11/04/21
If Sonys dualsense requirement is for players getting the best "game feeling" and it was just a coincidence that it stopped xim,cronus atd., Then i dont think that they will require dualsense for remote play. Remote play was made to let people play from anywhere with anything. But this is just my opinion. Noone knows what Is the real Sonys purpose.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 03:48 PM - 11/04/21
On balance, this is a good short-term option using Remote Play, which we’ve been pitching since the launch of PS5. Ethernet is paramount for PS5 to the local area network for good performance. Wifi is the concern and will cause many people to have connection problems.

Ultimately, this is a workaround rather than a solution and we can already do it without the dongle. Convenience is what’s on offer here and it is bundled up in a neat little package.

Assuming this works and is viable, what are the chances of getting XIM PS5 STs? That’s all any of us really care about. Relying on a third-party device to enable PS5 support is a big issue  :-\
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Boltman on 05:32 PM - 11/04/21
On balance, this is a good short-term option using Remote Play, which we’ve been pitching since the launch of PS5. Ethernet is paramount for PS5 to the local area network for good performance. Wifi is the concern and will cause many people to have connection problems.

Ultimately, this is a workaround rather than a solution and we can already do it without the dongle. Convenience is what’s on offer here and it is bundled up in a neat little package.

Assuming this works and is viable, what are the chances of getting XIM PS5 STs? That’s all any of us really care about. Relying on a third-party device to enable PS5 support is a big issue  :-\

Your last two posts in here.

You are a really smart guy, I can almost sense how your mind works when thinking about these issues solely based on how you word everything. It's like I understand these things with much more clarity after I've read your explanation on the situation. Not sure my post is coming off through text correctly. But to put it in other words...

I'm pickin up what you're puttin down, and I appreciate it.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 09:32 PM - 11/04/21
Remote Play can be updated to require a DualSense, which could kill the whole thing. Unlikely given DualSense isn’t supported on iOS, but possible.
If Sony were to limit even Remote Play to DS5, I think it would essentially kill interest and use in it. But, we will see.

Yes they can, but then they will cut out a large share (if not all devices) of their ecosystem. PSVita, PS TV, PS4 and Xperia phones (or Android/iOS phones in general). All of these are part of the Remote Play ecosystem and except for the PS4 none of these devices could support the DualSense. They indeed have the possibility to make it DualSense only, but that wouldnt make any sense when thinking about what Remote Play is about.

Overall i highly doubt they would make such a move :).
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 10:54 PM - 11/04/21
I agree with you Od1n, just playing devil’s advocate. If, and it’s a big if, Sony wants to shut it down though, they can. That’s a concern.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 07:04 AM - 11/05/21
I just hope they added an update rate counter like I asked.

This would be so helpful. For example Chiaki does a fairly poor job in 120hz games, the mouse movements start to become unreliable or stuttery. It also doesnt handle successive inputs very well. Sony's Remote Play has neither of these issues.
Looking forward to how the adapter does! :)
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 02:25 PM - 11/05/21
Screenshots are posted above Od1n. Note the lack of an Ethernet port, meaning this dongle is wireless.

I don’t know if having the PS5 connected via Ethernet to the router or modem will make a difference. That’s why it’ll be important to see if they included the rate counter.

As we all know, wireless = lag. Any more than 8ms (125Hz) and we have dropped packets from XIM to PS5 for everyone. People don’t want to run their XIM at 125Hz as it is, so anything over 1ms (possible via Ethernet Remote Play) will cause input lag from this device, especially in 120FPS games.

Ethernet Remote Play will remain the best option for those who care about performance. I’m interested in OBsIV’s observations to see if the dongle has optimised wifi lag to be better than the expected 50ms or so. If not, this thing is useless to us for anything but single-player games, where input lag is more tolerable.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Santigold on 06:17 AM - 11/06/21
Wifi…babow! Expect lag in the region of 50ms, it’ll be interesting to see if that’s the case under scrutiny. Ethernet should be viable, but it’s no different from using Remote Play now.

The only benefit is a PC isn’t required to use Remote Play, which to be fair is a big one, but the free Chiaki does this already.

Moving forward, I’d be concerned about what happens when Remote Play is updated, which happens pretty regularly lately. Sony can also patch this backdoor whenever they like.

Saw this coming a mile off - there was no way they’d cracked the DualSense. There are only two solutions - Remote Play, which can be patched, and a modchip, which can’t.

It’s a “meh” result that doesn’t solve the problem. I’ll probably wait it out for ConsoleTuner (which will work with XIM but will be relatively expensive) and if any other Remote Play solutions are found. Monetising hardware using Sony’s Remote Play protocol could present a problem.

Yeah lol. What a fkn joke to be honest. First they come off as if they had some breakthrough solution, but at the end of the day all they do is use remote play, just in a small device.

Thats a complete joke to say the least.

Despite that, Im sure remote play doesnt send a clean 1:1 controller input to the main PS5, as it would be with a dual sense or any other controller connected to the PS5 directly. Most likely remote play sends input data to the ps5 at like 60 Hz as well over the network, instead it being like 600Hz or higher with the Dualshock 4 or with a Dual Sense that is connected to the ps5 directly.

This adapter is complete trash as you can do the same thing with an existing PC, Notebook or smart phone already, which most ppl who use xim do already own anyways.

Its really about time ppl switch to PC, you can use a xim there without any issues and get the lowest possible input lag and most consistent experience. With forced crossplay on consoles (on Xbox its already the case, on ps5 it will be the case sooner rather than later), youre at a big disadvantage when youre getting matched vs pc players.

Wow... the whole fuss with this adapter turned out to be an utter disappointment and it being complete trash. If these morons would've from the beginning disclosed what technique exactly they are using instead of making a huge secret out of it, nobody would even pay attention to those clowns, because this is something that exists already. What a bunch of scummy nerds...
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Santigold on 06:47 AM - 11/06/21
The only approach that will work natively with the DualSense controller is most likely the XIM1-approach. This is also what I think ConsoleTuner / Titan Two guys are working on, since they claim it will take several months until it is finished.

Basically designing a logic board, that you solder on top of the native DualSense logic board and then have some converter that converts mouse input to electrical signals, which are then sent directly to the PS5 through the logic board of the Dual Sense controller.

I assume this method will work slightly better and will be slightly more "direct" and "precise" than the remote play method, however it will still not be as precise as "native" xim support.

The big hurdle with the xim1-approach would be that, while all buttons like Square, Triangle, cross, circle, R1, L1 etc. will be easy to implement (because it is either 0 or 1 in terms of electrical signal), the main issue are the analogue sticks, because it is a very timing critical input method. It will be extremely hard to convert analogue sticks as 1:1 without any delay from mouse input to electrical signals. It will require a crap ton of testing and tweaking and even then it will never be as 1:1 as "natively" working XIM in games that support "specilaty" controllers, like COD Cold War.

At the end of the day, I think the XIM1 approach with soldering etc. will not find a big popularity becuase of how complex the whole process is and most ppl will just end up using the remote play method instead, because it will not be much inferior in terms of input speed and precision when compared to the xim1-approach with soldering and additional converters etc. etc.

So as previously mentioned: there has never been a better time to switch to PC than this console generation.

Some might say: "Xbox Series X is also an option" and while it is, the problem with the Xbox is that it still has noticeable input lag compared to PS5 and PC.

I have an Xbox Series X right here and a PS5 and have tested Warzone on both and Xbox Series X still has noticeable controller input lag when compared to the PS5, it feels more floaty. And Im speaking about using the original controller without Titan Two or XIM. Just original controllers on each system- Xbox Series X has higher input lag, like 1 frame (16-20ms).

It was the case already when I compared PS4 Pro to the Xbox One X, I hoped that it would change with the Series X, but it didnt.

After watching a video about Virtual Machines (this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1JCCdo1bG4) the guy mentioned that Microsoft is using Hyper-V on their Xbox Operating System as well, this virtualization is what allows "Quick Resume" to work in games and because of Hyper V their system hasnt been hacked since Xbox One. My theory is that this exact Hyper-V, while allowing several comfortable features like Quick Resume, actually is the reason for input delay. Because whenever you run things in a virtual environment (basically running in software), they are never delay free like running them real time on the actual hardware.

Ppl can say whatever they want, Ive seen and heard many youtubers etc. who also noticed that input delay in FPS games on Xbox Series X (and Xbox One X), which doesn't exist on PS5 or PS4 and PS4 Pro. Im sure if someone had the tools and spare time and interest, they could also measure the additional input lag exactly. With Nvidia LDAT it would be possible to measure the exact input lag on Xbox Series X and on PS5, in games like MW19, Cold War, Warzone and Vanguard, because they support native Keyboard and Mouse. Native Keyboard and Mouse support makes testing with the LDAT much much easier than using adapters like Titan Two or XIM in games that dont have native KBM support.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Oskool on 06:55 AM - 11/06/21
How frequently does remote play send controller updates over ethernet to the ps5? Is it locked at 250Hz or is it an adjustable value?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Santigold on 07:06 AM - 11/06/21
How frequently does remote play send controller updates over ethernet to the ps5? Is it locked at 250Hz or is it an adjustable value?

I dont think anyone measured it, I highly doubt that it is higher than 60 Hz, because if the game stream from the remote play runs at 60fps, the controller input data is most likely also sent at 60 Hz back and forth.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 11:15 AM - 11/06/21
I dont really get the hate here.

When you use an USB to Ethernet adapter, and run the whole setup wired, then its basically just like using a long extension cable. Also when stripping video and audio from Remote Play you remove a huge chunk of the whole processing which should make inputs a lot more responsive. We obivously have to see how the device performs, but from the theory this is actually quite promising and shouldnt be compared to a normal Remote Play experience.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 11:23 AM - 11/06/21
shouldnt be compared to a normal Remote Play experience.

Agreed. We will assess the product and let everyone know.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: DerHertog on 11:42 AM - 11/06/21
shouldnt be compared to a normal Remote Play experience.

Agreed. We will assess the product and let everyone know.

And is the package alrdy in transit or still just a label ?😞
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 01:52 PM - 11/06/21
I have it.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: DerHertog on 02:54 PM - 11/06/21
I have it.
Ah nice!

Very curious about your findings; hope it’s usefull for our xim ps5 fps community ☺️👌
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 03:48 PM - 11/06/21
It'll be a little since we are in the middle of high priority NEXUS things. I am going to send one to Od1n for evaluation.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: viera1905 on 07:13 PM - 11/06/21
It'll be a little since we are in the middle of high priority NEXUS things. I am going to send one to Od1n for evaluation.
We don't care about NEXUS anyway, I'm using xim apex because I can't play ds games, you need to produce a solution for ps5 with the billions of ximapex you sold before
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 07:40 PM - 11/06/21
you need to produce a solution for ps5 with the billions of ximapex you sold before

This isn't our solution, and it is Remote Play-based. If you are so anxious for a solution you have access to it right now -- this is why it's not taking priority over shipping XIM NEXUS. They aren't waiting for us to ship their product. In fact, you'd be helping the community of PS5 gamers out by running your own Remote Play solution today so you can give feedback on how it works for you.
Title: Did you get the sample?
Post by: He4DHuNt3r on 07:50 PM - 11/06/21
We don't care about NEXUS anyway, I'm using xim apex because I can't play ds games, you need to produce a solution for ps5 with the billions of ximapex you sold before

How can he produce a solution if no 1 has cracked the DualSense encryption??

XIM Apex was designed for Xbox One / 360 and PS3 / PS4.

It was never gurenteed that it would work on the newer consoles.

A Billion XIM's? I think you're over estimating how many people use XIM Apex.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: TurboMan on 09:06 AM - 11/07/21
It'll be a little since we are in the middle of high priority NEXUS things. I am going to send one to Od1n for evaluation.
We don't care about NEXUS anyway, I'm using xim apex because I can't play ds games, you need to produce a solution for ps5 with the billions of ximapex you sold before

Literally every sentence of this post screams "clueless".
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: tzerony on 09:25 AM - 11/08/21
It'll be a little since we are in the middle of high priority NEXUS things. I am going to send one to Od1n for evaluation.
We don't care about NEXUS anyway, I'm using xim apex because I can't play ds games, you need to produce a solution for ps5 with the billions of ximapex you sold before

Who is "we"? I do care about NEXUS and am hyper more than about a dongle which would replace remote play. I really dont understand people stressing out that much. You guys can play PS5 games with the APEX via Remote Play. So calm down and dont spread your salt in this community, where people try their best to help everybody, without getting paid for it...
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: LiMiT on 10:54 AM - 11/08/21
Maybe this can help future DualSense investigations:

https://twitter.com/fail0verflow/status/1457499576676634625
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Dodge on 11:49 AM - 11/08/21
Maybe this can help future DualSense investigations:

https://twitter.com/fail0verflow/status/1457499576676634625

Oh my god, again? that was fast.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: DerHertog on 11:52 AM - 11/08/21
It'll be a little since we are in the middle of high priority NEXUS things. I am going to send one to Od1n for evaluation.
We don't care about NEXUS anyway, I'm using xim apex because I can't play ds games, you need to produce a solution for ps5 with the billions of ximapex you sold before

Who is "we"? I do care about NEXUS and am hyper more than about a dongle which would replace remote play. I really dont understand people stressing out that much. You guys can play PS5 games with the APEX via Remote Play. So calm down and dont spread your salt in this community, where people try their best to help everybody, without getting paid for it...
Agree but let’s be honest; xim nexus will be useless for a lot of people without proper ps5 support.

Remote play solution is far from ideal :(
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 05:12 PM - 11/08/21
This is a PlayStation issue, not a XIM one.

The simple matter of fact is Sony did an excellent job of encryption on the DualSense. Reverse-engineering the controller firmware is needed to make third-party devices like XIM appear as a DualSense for use with PS5 games.

That’s proven to be a very difficult task and may take years to eventuate, if ever. There are no custom firmwares floating around for PS4 or Xbox One…it’s the same challenge for DualSense which has a firmware of its own.

It’s been a year since the PS5 launch. We were warning XIM users about the likelihood that PS5 would be unsupported on XIM 6-12 months before that when Sony announced DualShock 4 would not work in PS5 games. We all had plenty of time to prepare. If you chose to ignore those warnings, that’s on you.

Right now, and for the foreseeable future, Remote Play is the ONLY option. Get used to it, or get a Series X. I did and I recommended that others do the same, because this outcome was entirely predictable.

For NEXUS, XIM tried to get an official licence from Sony, but they don’t want third-party competition for DualSense. Again, a Sony problem, not a XIM one. They grant licences to inferior products that aren’t a threat to the core console gaming experience. XIM is disruptive and goes against that philosophy.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Kostas on 06:35 PM - 11/08/21
But seriously i dont understand at 2022 people traveling for fun at moon,and how we cannot unlock that waste thing that they add im talking about sony is not possible noone cannot find a way to open the code that is hiding behind dualsense 5
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Herpityderp on 06:45 PM - 11/08/21
But seriously i dont understand at 2022 people traveling for fun at moon,and how we cannot unlock that waste thing that they add im talking about sony is not possible noone cannot find a way to open the code that is hiding behind dualsense 5

then you obviously don't understand encryption technology.

basically, what would need to happen is, an engineering endeavor which takes just about as much resource and skill as CREATING the d5 controller. Reverse engineering.  do you realize how much more man power, money and influence Sony has compared to a small company like this one? It's @#$% silly to expect them to simply "crack the code" of a multi BILLIOIN. YES BILLION. AS IN, WITH A B conglomerate that's PUBLICLY TRADED on markets.


let's get realistic here, jesus christ
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 07:06 PM - 11/08/21
noone cannot find a way to open the code that is hiding behind dualsense 5

There are groups working on cloning the DS5 security chip just like they did for the DS4. It's in progress right at this very moment. I'm sure if you (and many others) were willing to help fund the effort it would go much faster. It really is just a matter of that -- just like many things are.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Oskool on 07:47 PM - 11/08/21
For NEXUS, XIM tried to get an official licence from Sony, but they don’t want third-party competition for DualSense. Again, a Sony problem, not a XIM one. They grant licences to inferior products that aren’t a threat to the core console gaming experience. XIM is disruptive and goes against that philosophy.

Well said. Motion aiming with XIM NEXUS looks fun! It's something I want to try out and experience. Od1n's YouTube comparison of controller sticks vs motion vs mouse really sold me on motion aiming.

https://youtu.be/SIIfLAKFTDw
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Kostas on 02:10 AM - 11/09/21
But seriously i dont understand at 2022 people traveling for fun at moon,and how we cannot unlock that waste thing that they add im talking about sony is not possible noone cannot find a way to open the code that is hiding behind dualsense 5

then you obviously don't understand encryption technology.

basically, what would need to happen is, an engineering endeavor which takes just about as much resource and skill as CREATING the d5 controller. Reverse engineering.  do you realize how much more man power, money and influence Sony has compared to a small company like this one? It's @#$% silly to expect them to simply "crack the code" of a multi BILLIOIN. YES BILLION. AS IN, WITH A B conglomerate that's PUBLICLY TRADED on markets.


let's get realistic here, jesus christ




First of all smart @#$% i was not talking about xim to unlock the code for ps5 i was speaking generic secondly i dont know @#$% about coding if u do instead of typing dumb messages go and unlock the code then for us , next time try to read the messages closer so u will not jump to idiots conclussions 

Ffs people still dumb .
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Kostas on 02:12 AM - 11/09/21
noone cannot find a way to open the code that is hiding behind dualsense 5

There are groups working on cloning the DS5 security chip just like they did for the DS4. It's in progress right at this very moment. I'm sure if you (and many others) were willing to help fund the effort it would go much faster. It really is just a matter of that -- just like many things are.

Can u send me the link where i can donate so i can help them a bit
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 02:13 AM - 11/09/21
Guys no need to swear in arguments! Lets relax and behave like normal adults! :)
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 02:27 AM - 11/09/21
For NEXUS, XIM tried to get an official licence from Sony, but they don’t want third-party competition for DualSense. Again, a Sony problem, not a XIM one. They grant licences to inferior products that aren’t a threat to the core console gaming experience. XIM is disruptive and goes against that philosophy.

Well said. Motion aiming with XIM NEXUS looks fun! It's something I want to try out and experience. Od1n's YouTube comparison of controller sticks vs motion vs mouse really sold me on motion aiming.

https://youtu.be/SIIfLAKFTDw

With the latest Nexus features i almost equalized my mouse record with just a few attempts. Nexus at 74k vs mouse at 77k with no prior practice! Pretty sure values above 100k are easily doable with some AimLabs practice!
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: bssam112 on 11:36 AM - 11/09/21
For NEXUS, XIM tried to get an official licence from Sony, but they don’t want third-party competition for DualSense. Again, a Sony problem, not a XIM one. They grant licences to inferior products that aren’t a threat to the core console gaming experience. XIM is disruptive and goes against that philosophy.

Well said. Motion aiming with XIM NEXUS looks fun! It's something I want to try out and experience. Od1n's YouTube comparison of controller sticks vs motion vs mouse really sold me on motion aiming.

https://youtu.be/SIIfLAKFTDw

With the latest Nexus features i almost equalized my mouse record with just a few attempts. Nexus at 74k vs mouse at 77k with no prior practice! Pretty sure values above 100k are easily doable with some AimLabs practice!

I have not used a controller since 2015 after buying the Xim4. But I would really like to let my community who can't seem to adapt to MnK due to no prior experience. The Nexus will be great to bridge the gap between controllers and MnK. The main issue is that it will not be compatible with the PS5 without remote play and I can't seem to think it will be in the near future.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 12:16 PM - 11/09/21
There has been tons of progress on the PS5 compatibility part with several actors working on different solutions. Its only a matter of time until they become available! :)
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: DerHertog on 01:50 AM - 11/10/21
There has been tons of progress on the PS5 compatibility part with several actors working on different solutions. Its only a matter of time until they become available! :)

Hello Od1n,

Do you have any idea when you can share your findings regarding the beloader dongle which Obsiv send you?

Many are curious to know whether it's usable in FPS games or whether the ms is to much to be of use.

Don't want to push you in any way but I am dying to find out :D
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: LiMiT on 02:12 AM - 11/10/21
There has been tons of progress on the PS5 compatibility part with several actors working on different solutions. Its only a matter of time until they become available! :)

Could you elaborate on these "several actors"? PM if you don't want to "out" them here.

Thanks
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: baadnewz on 12:44 PM - 11/10/21
There has been tons of progress on the PS5 compatibility part with several actors working on different solutions. Its only a matter of time until they become available! :)

Are you serious? You mean there's hope? I must admit, I log in everyday at the end of my workday, hoping that I will read that there's an update for the xim, allowing us to play the Ps5 version.
I hope that day is near...
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Kostas on 01:31 PM - 11/10/21
There has been tons of progress on the PS5 compatibility part with several actors working on different solutions. Its only a matter of time until they become available! :)

Are you serious? You mean there's hope? I must admit, I log in everyday at the end of my workday, hoping that I will read that there's an update for the xim, allowing us to play the Ps5 version.
I hope that day is near...


I swear the same everyday im finishing work im log in to see if something new came . So we can use our xims and not only that if we can use the xim nexus on ps5
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Oskool on 02:26 PM - 11/10/21
Could you elaborate on these "several actors"? PM if you don't want to "out" them here.

Thanks

Looks like fail0verflow to the rescue again.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/11/uncovered-ps5-encryption-keys-are-the-first-step-to-unlocking-the-console/
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 04:53 PM - 11/10/21
^ this. Doesn't mean anything for the DualSense, that's a different animal. Looks promising though.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: russianbot on 11:39 PM - 11/10/21
where did you so this?

It's been published on facebook and offical website
https://www.facebook.com/XSIght/photos/pcb.1100607834011423/1100607750678098/
https://x-sight.ru/company/news/novosti_po_podderzhke_playstation_5/

I have sent them the email regarding availability
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: russianbot on 01:30 AM - 11/11/21
Iv got a replay:

(https://i.ibb.co/pnpzb72/Screen-Shot-2021-11-11-at-18-24-09.png) (https://ibb.co/cxdFkBJ)

Translation:

Hi! If you are interested in Beloader - we are waiting for a sample. Its scheduled to arrive later this month or early in December. Once it will be tested and confirmed it works we have to make a decision on the price and stock it. Stay tuned!
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: LiMiT on 02:18 AM - 11/11/21
^ this. Doesn't mean anything for the DualSense, that's a different animal. Looks promising though.

Well, if the OS firmware and the DualSense firmware uses the same encryption keys, it is very promising (meaning the DS firmware now also can be decrypted).
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Sorothos on 07:36 AM - 11/11/21
Good news, keep it up, I hope we are further along in early 2022 - and there will be a workaround for all. No matter if XIM, Titan Two or whatever.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 09:42 AM - 11/11/21
I've been testing Beloader with both XIM NEXUS and XIM APEX for a few days now. I shipped one to Od1n yesterday. I'm not going to comment on performance until Od1n has had a chance to evaluate it for himself (I trust him more on these things than me :).
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: vr6 on 11:15 AM - 11/11/21
I've been testing Beloader with both XIM NEXUS and XIM APEX for a few days now. I shipped one to Od1n yesterday. I'm not going to comment on performance until Od1n has had a chance to evaluate it for himself (I trust him more on these things than me :).

since you are testing it for a few days with APEX and NEXUS means it's is at least working somehow?!

thank's for keeping us updated
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Ychyno on 08:28 PM - 11/11/21
Yea I believe it’s working but they just want to be sure there isn’t too much lag. Hopefully we get some great news soon!
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: MrBrutalFrosty on 10:32 PM - 11/11/21
Exciting times gimmie gimmie
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Boltman on 03:12 AM - 11/12/21
We just need the eventual link to show up so we can order it online.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 03:42 AM - 11/12/21
Hold your horses boys. As mentioned, this dongle has caveats.

It's a wireless Remote Play client. That alone is cause for concern as it's very likely that almost all of us will have more lag than we would consider acceptable with a XIM.

Wait and see how it plays out when Od1n has a chance to test it, but ethernet Remote Play from PC, Mac or PS4 will be faster and more reliable.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Scrotesmd2 on 04:58 AM - 11/12/21
Yeah this is disappointing to me personally, I can't see this being optimal for competitive gaming. My series x arrives on Monday anyway but it's a shame , I'd hoped they had cracked the encryption but this solution doest look ideal to me. More a workaround I guess. My ps5 will remain for its amazing exclusives but Xbox will be the xim king.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Swaim on 06:04 AM - 11/12/21
And bad news only 2.4hz wifi no 5.0
more potential delay
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Ludo 62510 on 07:45 AM - 11/12/21
I've been testing Beloader with both XIM NEXUS and XIM APEX for a few days now. I shipped one to Od1n yesterday. I'm not going to comment on performance until Od1n has had a chance to evaluate it for himself (I trust him more on these things than me :).
bonjour j'attends avec impatience des nouvelles j'aimerais pouvoir de nouveau utilisé mon xim apex pour bf 2042 sur ma ps4 en attente
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: RConnor on 12:21 PM - 11/12/21
And bad news only 2.4hz wifi no 5.0
more potential delay

2.4GHz isn't inherently worse than 5GHz for data transmission. Hell, it actually has some advantages.

Your point is about congestion, I suspect, and I get what you're trying to say.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: baadnewz on 08:40 AM - 11/14/21
Somebody, please give us something. I've tried to be patient all this time but please give us something. Is there any hope? I've played last night some Vanguard with my friends and I wanted to pull my brains out. I used to have a 2.0 k/d in Cold War with 20+ nucleare and now I barely go positive. I miss playing on 120Hz. I now play the ps4 version of Vanguard, but it seems to be miles away from the Ps5 version. I am just wondering if I should go back on controller, or just wait a couple more weeks for a solution. Please give us something.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 08:50 AM - 11/14/21
Just use remote play with a wired connection, it works amazingly well nowadays! :)

Still waiting for the adapter to arrive, Fedex wanted to deliver it on Friday but its still not here. Corona can cause delays they said, maybe itll arrive on Monday.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: DerHertog on 10:45 AM - 11/14/21
Just use remote play with a wired connection, it works amazingly well nowadays! :)

Still waiting for the adapter to arrive, Fedex wanted to deliver it on Friday but its still not here. Corona can cause delays they said, maybe itll arrive on Monday.

Yes all wired here and really don’t notice any difference :)

Extremely happy with it.


Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 10:54 AM - 11/14/21
Fully wired even with the cheapest network hardware will be sub-millisecond latency.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: clever_inks on 10:23 PM - 11/14/21
cant fight with PC in Battlefield 2042.. really hope u crack it Od1n..
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: sahin1986 on 11:12 PM - 11/14/21
Fully wired even with the cheapest network hardware will be sub-millisecond latency.

can i have group chat on remote connection
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 10:48 AM - 11/15/21
Yes you can, just change your mic and audio source back to your normal one. Remote play will automatically switch it to "remote play". If you use a solution that connects directly to the controller then this step isnt needed, remote play will transfer your voice chat audio as well.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: sahin1986 on 11:39 PM - 11/15/21
Yes you can, just change your mic and audio source back to your normal one. Remote play will automatically switch it to "remote play". If you use a solution that connects directly to the controller then this step isnt needed, remote play will transfer your voice chat audio as well.

my computer is very old, will this cause a problem? for remote play
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 08:13 AM - 11/16/21
Probably not, Remote Play isnt very demanding, especially when you set its options to 360p and high refresh rate.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: AskingAllTheTime on 10:31 AM - 11/16/21
https://mobile.twitter.com/PlayStation/status/1460475275020439559
Can this somehow possibly help?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Brutalimp on 10:35 AM - 11/16/21
Guys no need to swear in arguments! Lets relax and behave like normal adults! :)

What makes you think they are adults?

or even normal?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: LiMiT on 12:00 PM - 11/17/21
So, in order for this Beloader thing to work, the PS5 needs to be set in remote play mode (with the pincode too)?

Or is it just plug-and-play, connecting the XIM to the Beloader -> PS5 and play away?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: ttplatti on 12:15 PM - 11/17/21
the question is where can i buy it
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: richab78 on 01:03 PM - 11/17/21
https://youtu.be/QiBMmzHMJec
xim central said "works perfectly" and "no lag"!?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 01:42 PM - 11/17/21
https://youtu.be/QiBMmzHMJec
xim central said "works perfectly" and "no lag"!?

Based on how you use it you can experience lag though, say when your network setup is very poor for example. But when everything is setup correctly it plays as well as a wired Remote Play setup, which i would regard as lag free.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Loki11 on 02:20 PM - 11/17/21
the tutorial will be?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: SLeePLatED on 12:04 AM - 11/18/21
In this case of Beloader (remote play), Xim4 maybe work on ps5 too?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: DerHertog on 01:58 AM - 11/18/21
https://youtu.be/QiBMmzHMJec
xim central said "works perfectly" and "no lag"!?

Based on how you use it you can experience lag though, say when your network setup is very poor for example. But when everything is setup correctly it plays as well as a wired Remote Play setup, which i would regard as lag free.

but this thing cant be connected wired so how can it possibily be better than a laptop setup wired to ps5 using remote play? :)

Thanks for all your efforts Odin! Really really appreciate it and looking forward to the next video about it.

Edit: I see another thing in the box; maybe a lan switch type of thing? :D
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 03:21 AM - 11/18/21
They supplied a USB hub with Ethernet port, but they don’t support it :facepalm:

Close but no donut.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 08:45 AM - 11/18/21
https://youtu.be/QiBMmzHMJec
xim central said "works perfectly" and "no lag"!?

Based on how you use it you can experience lag though, say when your network setup is very poor for example. But when everything is setup correctly it plays as well as a wired Remote Play setup, which i would regard as lag free.

but this thing cant be connected wired so how can it possibily be better than a laptop setup wired to ps5 using remote play? :)

Thanks for all your efforts Odin! Really really appreciate it and looking forward to the next video about it.

Edit: I see another thing in the box; maybe a lan switch type of thing? :D

Their adapter ignores the video/audio decoding coming from the console, its just inputs sent to the console. That makes it much more efficient.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: DerHertog on 11:41 AM - 11/18/21
https://youtu.be/QiBMmzHMJec
xim central said "works perfectly" and "no lag"!?

Based on how you use it you can experience lag though, say when your network setup is very poor for example. But when everything is setup correctly it plays as well as a wired Remote Play setup, which i would regard as lag free.

but this thing cant be connected wired so how can it possibily be better than a laptop setup wired to ps5 using remote play? :)

Thanks for all your efforts Odin! Really really appreciate it and looking forward to the next video about it.

Edit: I see another thing in the box; maybe a lan switch type of thing? :D

Their adapter ignores the video/audio decoding coming from the console, its just inputs sent to the console. That makes it much more efficient.

Smart!
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 11:54 AM - 11/18/21
Their website is up now: http://beloader.com

I talked to them and they could have stock as early as next week.

I believe Od1n is working on a review video.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 12:08 PM - 11/18/21
Yes finishing the last few tests before putting a review video together! The adapter works amazingly well, i was sceptical at first but it really suprised me.
Also amazing news on the potential release of it, this would be just in time for Vanguard, Infinite and BF2042's XIM game profile releases!
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: facade on 12:17 PM - 11/18/21
Not sure if everyone is frantically clicking on that link causing it to be incredibly slow or my works network is blocking it.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: He4DHuNt3r on 12:17 PM - 11/18/21
Not sure if everyone is frantically clicking on that link causing it to be incredibly slow or my works network is blocking it.

Working fine for me ^^
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 12:18 PM - 11/18/21
Its already out and can be bought now:
https://www.beloader.com/product/index/details/id/38895.htm
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Sorothos on 12:26 PM - 11/18/21
For Germany: Sorry,This country is not within the scope of delivery.

 :-[
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: facade on 12:28 PM - 11/18/21
Not sure if everyone is frantically clicking on that link causing it to be incredibly slow or my works network is blocking it.

Working fine for me ^^

It's absurdly slow for me so I'm assuming it's work.

Really surprised at the price being so low. Expected higher. Though I am thinking about just using the Pi4 I have sitting around to just do a remote play build on that since I can utilize ethernet on both the Pi & PS5 after looking at the other topic here with people using that instead.

edit:
ok, even weirder issue. They apparently don't ship to my house? The hell? (VA, USA)
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Skogstokig on 12:34 PM - 11/18/21
sweden is not up for delivery

Sorry,This country is not within the scope of delivery.

:/

Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 12:35 PM - 11/18/21
I assume they havent fully launched yet hence the limited shipping options. Or worldwide delivery will be handled through Amazon while their own shop only supplies specific countries.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 12:35 PM - 11/18/21
I assume they havent fully launched yet hence the limited shipping options. Or worldwide delivery will be handled through Amazon while their own shop only supplies specific countries.

Likely this.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: facade on 12:37 PM - 11/18/21
I assume they havent fully launched yet hence the limited shipping options. Or worldwide delivery will be handled through Amazon while their own shop only supplies specific countries.

Seems like it.

Welp, guess I'll be giving that Raspberry Pi method a try.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Yungie on 12:45 PM - 11/18/21
Yeah it’s not specific within the US either.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: RzaqMu on 12:56 PM - 11/18/21
Their website is up now: http://beloader.com

I talked to them and they could have stock as early as next week.

I believe Od1n is working on a review video.

I understand from you that there is no hope for Xim Apex to work on PS5 game !!
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Snoofy on 01:00 PM - 11/18/21
For Germany: Sorry,This country is not within the scope of delivery.

 :-[

Same for Italy
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 01:08 PM - 11/18/21
The product isn't shipping yet. I suggested to them to shut down the ordering ability until it's fully ready.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Iamsupreme11 on 02:08 PM - 11/18/21
Says that they’ve sold over 300 products on the buy page. Wonder how correct that is
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: facade on 02:10 PM - 11/18/21
Jesus, I think that was around 100 when I tried.

I guess just locally for them for now. Of course at this point I'm sure it will sell out there and be resold to us for a hefty markup.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Sinik001 on 02:42 PM - 11/18/21
Any news ? i try a lot, but no location for my Country
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Yungie on 02:47 PM - 11/18/21
Jesus, I think that was around 100 when I tried.

I guess just locally for them for now. Of course at this point I'm sure it will sell out there and be resold to us for a hefty markup.

That’ll be messed up if they allow something like that.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 03:24 PM - 11/18/21
Its already out and can be bought now:
https://www.beloader.com/product/index/details/id/38895.htm (https://www.beloader.com/product/index/details/id/38895.htm)
Twenty 5 star reviews for a product that isn’t available yet - now that’s believable testimony  ::)

How do they handle the PSN Remote Play login Od1n? Is it stored in any format on the device? That's my biggest concern with this device and there's no way I'll use it if it has access to my PSN login.

Again, this is just a wireless Remote Play dongle. If you have the ability to use Ethernet Remote Play from PC, Mac or PS4, use that instead. It’s faster, more reliable and more secure.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Morgs91 on 03:26 PM - 11/18/21
Hey guys,

so just to confirm what has been said previously. Wired remote play will basically be the same result as buying this new dongle?

I mainly play D2 and I remember right at the beginning for ps5 that playing over remote play before the workaround was pretty good actually. Are you saying that the input delay added by going over the remote play network with an ethernet cable is not that much different to direct input to the ps5?

I am not too phased about it all as D2 works fine still, but I have a sneaking suspicion that when Witch Queen is launched it will be dual sense only again.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 03:29 PM - 11/18/21
Wired Remote Play will be better than what they're selling. Do that instead, if you can. Wired Remote Play is less than 1ms and is faster than a direct USB connection (a minimum of 1ms).

If you don't have a PC, Mac or PS4, then a Beloader is the next best option, if you can't make your own Raspberry Pi Chiaki Remote Play client. That said, Beloader seems to be faster and more efficient than Chiaki. Personally, as impressive as the Beloader's wifi performance may be, I'll be waiting for something better to come along.

I'm not trying to poop on the PS5 picnic, but be realistic with expectations. This is not the golden bullet that'll solve the PS5 DualSense problem and PS5 is not likely to be supported by XIM as a result of Beloader's release.

Beloader is a workaround for PS5, similar to the specialty third-party PS4 controllers we all have gathering dust. Remote Play is more likely to be supported well into the future by Sony, so it's a solid workaround.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: facade on 03:37 PM - 11/18/21

Again, this is just a wireless Remote Play dongle. If you have the ability to use Ethernet Remote Play from PC, Mac or PS4, use that instead. It’s faster, more reliable and more secure.

That's where I'm at. I need something small to have in the area. My PC is upstairs in the computer room and wife already doesn't like the fact I have a PS5 + Series X in the living room taking up tons of space (along with stereo equipment). Having a 3rd console there (PS4 pro) just sitting there for no reason other than "remote play" simply won't happen so I need something small to take advantage (which would either be this device or perhaps the Pi method w/a Pi4 via ethernet)

When we actually get a house and out of our rental this will all be moot as I'll have my "man cave" which we have the agreement that I can keep all my electronic stuff in there (which is way too much considering the other 5 consoles I have) w/no issues and I couldn't care less about what she wants to decorate the rest of the home with.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Morgs91 on 03:43 PM - 11/18/21
Sweet, guess I am one of the lucky ones with a PC,PS5 and  Router all side by side :D
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 03:53 PM - 11/18/21
Convenience is the sales pitch here. Wireless will always be slower than wired. Security is a concern.

Those who use 500 or 1000Hz Response Rate on XIM APEX might want to consider dropping down to 125 or 250Hz with Beloader.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Hellbound on 04:11 PM - 11/18/21
I've very hesitant to get this.. I'm hoping this thing is thoroughly being tested.

-For any reason, will we be needing to plug this device into a PC?
-Does this device pull/inject ANY info from your pc or PS5 (psn login/password, access files, etc.)
-Have you measured any additional input lag? If so, how much??

I'm hesitant because this is a USB device from an unknown Chinese company.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: facade on 04:32 PM - 11/18/21
Sweet, guess I am one of the lucky ones with a PC,PS5 and  Router all side by side :D

Prior to getting married 6 years ago that was also me lol
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 04:47 PM - 11/18/21
-For any reason, will we be needing to plug this device into a PC?
-Does this device pull/inject ANY info from your pc or PS5 (psn login/password, access files, etc.)
-Have you measured any additional input lag? If so, how much??

Yes, you need to plug it into your PC. Preliminary checks to ensure it's not doing anything like scanning your PC showed that it wasn't. But, I think it's reasonable for others with more experience with security issues to take a look. You don't enter your password into their app -- it's entered via Sony's website. You do need to enter your Wifi password into their tool. According to them, the lag added is no worse than 4ms regardless of Wifi router given proprietary Wifi optimizations that they didn't say how was done. I tend to believe this given Od1n's and my experience with using it (although, it has never been formally measured and we don't have any method to measure it).
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 04:51 PM - 11/18/21
4ms over wifi is very impressive, assuming it's accurate. But that means those using 500 or 1000Hz on XIM APEX should probably dial Response Rate down to 250Hz. IMHO, that's the optimal Response Rate for APEX anyway, so it's not a big loss.

Wifi though is inherently flakey and subject to interference, so I'd anticipate input lag problems for many Beloader users.

Better than nothing though, for those who are forced to use wifi :-\
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Y on 05:14 PM - 11/18/21
-For any reason, will we be needing to plug this device into a PC?
-Does this device pull/inject ANY info from your pc or PS5 (psn login/password, access files, etc.)
-Have you measured any additional input lag? If so, how much??

Yes, you need to plug it into your PC. Preliminary checks to ensure it's not doing anything like scanning your PC showed that it wasn't. But, I think it's reasonable for others with more experience with security issues to take a look. You don't enter your password into their app -- it's entered via Sony's website. You do need to enter your Wifi password into their tool. According to them, the lag added is no worse than 4ms regardless of Wifi router given proprietary Wifi optimizations that they didn't say how was done. I tend to believe this given Od1n's and my experience with using it (although, it has never been formally measured and we don't have any method to measure it).

But on their website, they say "Plug and play without any extra PC or Mobile"

So why do we need a PC?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 06:08 PM - 11/18/21
But on their website, they say "Plug and play without any extra PC or Mobile"

So why do we need a PC?

That's not true. You need to do their one-time setup using a PC. Maybe they mean after setup.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Scarvers on 06:54 PM - 11/18/21
Ok so I am just a little confused...

obsiv... that test you were doing thats still taking place right? I am not sure if I missed anything but there is still hope for the xim apex to get an update so I dont have to remote play on ps5 right?

and that other device... that has nothing to do with xim apex correct thats just another device you can buy?

haha sorry just want to be caught up think I am missing something
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 06:59 PM - 11/18/21
Beloader is a USB dongle that connects XIM APEX (and other devices) to PS5 to play DualSense-locked games. It uses a Remote Play client on-board over wifi to make the connection. So, Remote Play is still required, it's just built into the Beloader dongle.

Wireless performance is apparently pretty good, but if you can use Remote Play on PC, Mac or PS4, you don't need a Beloader dongle and Remote Play will be faster over ethernet.

Beloader is a good solution if wireless is your only Remote Play option, or if you don't have a PC, Mac or PS4. A PC is required to setup the Beloader though.

Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 07:16 PM - 11/18/21
there is still hope for the xim apex to get an update so I dont have to remote play on ps5 right?

No, sorry, that's unlikely to happen. Groups like those behind Beloader are likely the ones that will ultimately come up with a direct USB solution. They are actively working on it.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Scarvers on 09:06 PM - 11/18/21
ahh ok I see now... I just watched the video on the beloader... thats actually fantastic...looking forward to this lol
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 09:24 PM - 11/18/21
Given that the adapter is already out for sale and i just started working on my review video, i would like to outline two of its downsides.

The first one is some speciality controllers, when connected to the XIM port 3, will not work with the Beloader. I assume this is an easy fix from their side. The Nacon Compact seems to work, but others such as Fighting Sticks dont. The device needs to controller connected to it anyway, maybe a XIM patch can make it possible to run the XIM without an authentication controller too.

The second one is that headsets connected to the controller audio port may not work. This is the only thing i couldnt test as i dont own a single headset that is compatible with the playstation controller. Given how the devices removes video and audio it would make sense for those to not work. A USB soundcard would be a cheap alternative if your headset relies on a connection to the controller.

Other than that the device is really amazing, the input lag is really really good and i havent had a single crash so far! Cannot say the same about the Sony Remote Play software :).
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: facade on 10:05 PM - 11/18/21
^
So the beloadrr is connected to the XIM hub where the controller would go?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 10:19 PM - 11/18/21
The setup is PS5 - Beloader - XIM Apex or XIM4 :).
Alternatively you can plug the Beloader into any USB power source too though such as a PC.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: facade on 10:28 PM - 11/18/21
Ok that's what i figured out would be.  I guess i misunderstood your post and got confused when i understood it plugging into port 3
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 10:30 PM - 11/18/21
Speciality controllers connected to port 3 dont seem to work. The XIM will then act as a speciality controller which makes the whole combo not work with the Beloader. Im sure its an easy fix from their side as they already have an adapter that offers speciality controller support. Their next firmware version could already fix that.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: duyphuc1610 on 10:42 PM - 11/18/21
how do I get Beloader device from?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 11:14 PM - 11/18/21
Scroll up the page.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Sorothos on 01:56 AM - 11/19/21
Is there input lag from Beloader? Or is it a 1 ms / 1000 Hz device?

I use the Titan Two + XIM and then when another device is added, I don't want to create a bottleneck.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 02:23 AM - 11/19/21
It’s wireless with minimum input lag of around 4ms. But wireless being inherently unstable, there will be variance above that.

It should feel roughly like a XIM APEX running at 125Hz, or Sync Default, most of the time. It could spike higher, depending on network setup and wifi interference.

Od1n will be in the best position to answer that and I think he’s putting together a video review to clarify a few things.

If you want minimal and consistent input lag from Remote Play, go with Ethernet, which is less than 1ms.

Bottom line - set your expectations realistically. 4 to 8ms over wifi is lightning fast for a wireless connection, but that’s the slowest that a XIM or Titan Two will run. If you use 500 or 1000Hz on a XIM, you won’t get the same speed with a Beloader.

In my view, XIM feels best at 125 or 250Hz, or Sync Default (120Hz), so Beloader is viable, as long as you understand the limitations of wifi connections.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: LiMiT on 04:06 AM - 11/19/21
So, Beloader is basically a headless Chiaki on a USB-stick with USB for connecting the controller/XIM...

Chiaki sourcecode is available, which proto/Arduino/RPi/Teensy hardware would be "closest" in terms of connectors and wifi (if one would set out to make one...)?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: BokiWan on 04:14 AM - 11/19/21
Did someone successfully managed to order the Beloader Device ? It keeps getting me an Checkout Error Message, while paying via PayPal !? (P.S. I'm trying ordering from Germany as Location)
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: DerHertog on 04:18 AM - 11/19/21
I just ordered one; message that they didnt ship to my country was gone in paypal and I see 10usd was added for shipping.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 04:30 AM - 11/19/21
So, Beloader is basically a headless Chiaki on a USB-stick with USB for connecting the controller/XIM...

Chiaki sourcecode is available, which proto/Arduino/RPi/Teensy hardware would be "closest" in terms of connectors and wifi (if one would set out to make one...)?
Similar but not the same as Chiaki. Beloader is faster and more stable over wifi. Chiaki supports ethernet, but has other issues. Od1n knows more about that too.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Swaim on 04:40 AM - 11/19/21
Did someone successfully managed to order the Beloader Device ? It keeps getting me an Checkout Error Message, while paying via PayPal !? (P.S. I'm trying ordering from Germany as Location)
https://clip2net.com/s/4e3cquI

Tracking number after they send device in members area
Delivery around 5-10 days
Will send it on weekends or on Monday if you order it today.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: DerHertog on 04:50 AM - 11/19/21
I also send them a mail yesterday regarding shipping on the contact section on the page:

Got a reply this morning:

thanks your support beloader.
Now Beloader has been sold globally and can be sent to any address in the world.
If you need beloader, please buy it now and ship it around the world next week.
https://www.beloader.com/
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: BokiWan on 05:19 AM - 11/19/21
THX ! I just placed my Order successfully ! It seems, like there is a problem with either registering an account before ordering or with macOS !? I just ordered it without pre-registration and via mobile phone, get it ordered instantly without issues !

Maybe their website also is not that well programmed, had also issues with registtration process before :-/
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Sonicspinner on 06:31 AM - 11/19/21
i had problem ordering as well.
at the end i did an order without registration. with paypal
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: lzj122610 on 06:43 AM - 11/19/21
just ordered one, paid with PayPal, and the order status shows "Awaiting Shipping".
i am in China, the Shipping Cost is $10.00, i dont know which delivery company they will choose, and dont know when they will ship.

(https://i.imgur.com/q946Xbq.png)
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Sonicspinner on 07:00 AM - 11/19/21
THX ! I just placed my Order successfully ! It seems, like there is a problem with either registering an account before ordering or with macOS !? I just ordered it without pre-registration and via mobile phone, get it ordered instantly without issues !

Maybe their website also is not that well programmed, had also issues with registtration process before :-/
how can you check order status? i tried registrating with the email i ordered from. it gives me member id errorr.

and i have only a paypal receit. havent got an email order confirmation from beloader yet
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: lzj122610 on 07:13 AM - 11/19/21
THX ! I just placed my Order successfully ! It seems, like there is a problem with either registering an account before ordering or with macOS !? I just ordered it without pre-registration and via mobile phone, get it ordered instantly without issues !

Maybe their website also is not that well programmed, had also issues with registtration process before :-/
how can you check order status? i tried registrating with the email i ordered from. it gives me member id errorr.

and i have only a paypal receit. havent got an email order confirmation from beloader yet
i haven’t received any email order comfirmation too, i registered an account before i order the device, now the status shows awaiting shipment, i think maybe you will receive a comfirmation email when it ships
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Sonicspinner on 07:18 AM - 11/19/21
THX ! I just placed my Order successfully ! It seems, like there is a problem with either registering an account before ordering or with macOS !? I just ordered it without pre-registration and via mobile phone, get it ordered instantly without issues !

Maybe their website also is not that well programmed, had also issues with registtration process before :-/
how can you check order status? i tried registrating with the email i ordered from. it gives me member id errorr.

and i have only a paypal receit. havent got an email order confirmation from beloader yet
i haven’t received any email order comfirmation too, i registered an account before i order the device, now the status shows awaiting shipment, i think maybe you will receive a comfirmation email when it ships

allright cool, i will activate my patience :D
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: thornlutz on 08:47 AM - 11/19/21
Ordered one through PayPal due to the fact that it wasn't possible through an account on Beloader.com. I didn't get any confirmation but got a PayPal receipt that the order went through, we will see how it goes.  :-\
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 10:18 AM - 11/19/21
So, Beloader is basically a headless Chiaki on a USB-stick with USB for connecting the controller/XIM...

Chiaki sourcecode is available, which proto/Arduino/RPi/Teensy hardware would be "closest" in terms of connectors and wifi (if one would set out to make one...)?

Chiaki as other issues though such as poor micro mouse movements, under/overshooting, no scripting support (ignores/delays rapid script sequences) and also has no touchpad press. Just porting Chiakis code onto a Pi will still make it perform inferiour to Sony PC Remote Play. You would need to heavily change Chiakis code to get rid of these issues.

Beloader might have a slightly higher delay but has none of these issues. Because of that id use Beloader over Chiaki.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: vr6 on 11:10 AM - 11/19/21
Does this thing acutally makes sense with slow wifi?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 11:16 AM - 11/19/21
Does this thing acutally makes sense with slow wifi?

The minimum Wifi they recommend I believe is Wifi 4, but it will work with any. Slow isn't relevant here really, it's about latency. Plus, I'm not sure if they found a way to make it so that the PS5 doesn't send a video stream at all. At the least, they have configured it to send a minimum stream. We need to do more testing, but, they seem to be achieving consistently lower latency than what you get when you perform ping tests on your network. If we find they are actually doing that then I'm not sure how they are doing it.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: lzj122610 on 11:25 AM - 11/19/21
Does this thing acutally makes sense with slow wifi?

The minimum Wifi they recommend I believe is Wifi 4, but it will work with any. Slow isn't relevant here really, it's about latency. Plus, I'm not sure if they found a way to make it so that the PS5 doesn't send a video stream at all. At the least, they have configured it to send a minimum stream. We need to do more testing, but, they seem to be achieving consistently lower latency than what you get when you perform ping tests on your network. If we find they are actually doing that then I'm not sure how they are doing it.
could Beloader be connected through Ethernet? Or it can only be connected through Wifi 4/5/6? i saw something like an ethernet adapter in the video, but Beloader only has one USB port which is for XIM
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 11:39 AM - 11/19/21
They don't support USB network adapters. I sent that to Od1n in cases they added the feature but there is no plan. The hardware doesn't support it.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: facade on 12:00 PM - 11/19/21
So I figured I'd give it another shot at buying it and maybe the world is just telling me to not get it because now if i try via "Paypal" it tells me "This merchant account is restricted". (I'm in the US)

Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Iamsupreme11 on 12:12 PM - 11/19/21
So I figured I'd give it another shot at buying it and maybe the world is just telling me to not get it because now if i try via "Paypal" it tells me "This merchant account is restricted". (I'm in the US)

That can happen when a new PayPal account has been restricted. Probably because they have had so many sales in short amount of time. They’ll need to jump through hoops for PayPal to get it back
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: thornlutz on 12:15 PM - 11/19/21
Anyone got any confirmation when you ordered through PayPal?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Hellbound on 12:50 PM - 11/19/21
Security concerns aside. Does this device require the PS5 to be connected to the internet via wifi only?
I'm on a wired connection.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 01:04 PM - 11/19/21
Security concerns aside. Does this device require the PS5 to be connected to the internet via wifi only?
I'm on a wired connection.

PS5 needs to be connected wired for best results. Beloader connects only to your Wifi network.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Loki11 on 01:11 PM - 11/19/21
,,the merchant account is restricted"

It means that they do not send to Poland?... what should I do?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: DerHertog on 01:47 PM - 11/19/21
,,the merchant account is restricted"

It means that they do not send to Poland?... what should I do?

No probably means they sold a lot via their paypal account and that paypal is demanding extra checks and therefore restricting their account for time being.

It’s not a very professional website/shop i guess! Not prepared well.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Loki11 on 02:12 PM - 11/19/21
,,the merchant account is restricted"

It means that they do not send to Poland?... what should I do?

No probably means they sold a lot via their paypal account and that paypal is demanding extra checks and therefore restricting their account for time being.

It’s not a very professional website/shop i guess! Not prepared well.

Thanks bro!  :P
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Y on 03:55 PM - 11/19/21
If I can use the remote play method with a wired connection, does that better than getting Beloader?

I tried remote play before but with a wifi connection, it wasn’t a bad experience but yes there was some lagging sometimes.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 03:59 PM - 11/19/21
Nothing beats a wire wired connection with respect to lag. But, having to have a PC constantly running is a pretty big burden, so, Beloader will definitely win on convenience if you must use Wifi to connect the Remote Play client.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Oskool on 08:22 PM - 11/19/21
Perhaps Beloader's operating system is using network settings which assign a lower priority to ICMP ping packets and a higher priority to UDP Chiaki packets.

https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.quality-of-service.html
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Goldberg on 08:41 PM - 11/19/21
If i fill fine being connected through remote play having a laptop nearby , does the beloader give any advantage over remote play ? Better latency ?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 09:12 PM - 11/19/21
As far as I can tell it's the best latency that we've seen. But, Od1n needs to complete his analysis.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 09:32 PM - 11/19/21
Yes i would really like to know how they pulled it off, the performance is incredible for a Wifi connection! I will try to finish the review this weekend/early next week! The setup guide will follow a day or two later if everything works out well! :)
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: lzj122610 on 12:42 AM - 11/20/21
Yes i would really like to know how they pulled it off, the performance is incredible for a Wifi connection! I will try to finish the review this weekend/early next week! The setup guide will follow a day or two later if everything works out well! :)
hi are you connecting the Beloader through Wi-Fi6/AX or Wi-Fi5/AC? does it has difference between Wi-Fi6 or Wi-Fi5?
Waiting for your final review
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 01:48 AM - 11/20/21
I think he may be using Wifi4 but he will need to confirm.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Sonicspinner on 02:02 AM - 11/20/21
A whole day now and  no mail confirmation from be loader...
Only a PayPal receipt...are we being scammed?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: thornlutz on 02:54 AM - 11/20/21
A whole day now and  no mail confirmation from be loader...
Only a PayPal receipt...are we being scammed?

Pretty unlikely due to the fact that PayPal has Buyer Protection. We will see how it goes.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Loki11 on 04:46 AM - 11/20/21
goes on to say that the seller's account is restricted..  How is it that others normally buy and I can't all the time?...

will there be a possibility buy with another side or something because all time I can't buy, that's annoying, I wrote to them.  but they do not write back.. Please help i must to buy beloader :(
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: DerHertog on 04:52 AM - 11/20/21
A whole day now and  no mail confirmation from be loader...
Only a PayPal receipt...are we being scammed?

Same here, just be patient. Probably we will get shipment notification after the weekend.

Also we got paypal buyer protection, im not worried.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: maasman on 05:22 AM - 11/20/21
Contacted Them and asked about when IT Will be shipped. Next week all orders Will be shipped they said. So patiens all
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: apex_vip on 07:37 AM - 11/20/21
Perhaps Beloader's operating system is using network settings which assign a lower priority to ICMP ping packets and a higher priority to UDP Chiaki packets.

https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.quality-of-service.html
I you look the protocol it's impossible that is a QOS optimization.

The problem of chiaki is just some "pattern" optimization i've made in my "own" work.

For example dont handle joystick event in same thread that other things , dont decode video, decrease some polling etc..
This is why i moved to language Go and use the help of Go Routine.
 


Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Loki11 on 07:42 AM - 11/20/21
Contacted Them and asked about when IT Will be shipped. Next week all orders Will be shipped they said. So patiens all
how is it They write back to you. and they can't answer why i can't buy....
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: thornlutz on 07:55 AM - 11/20/21
Contacted Them and asked about when IT Will be shipped. Next week all orders Will be shipped they said. So patiens all
how is it They write back to you. and they can't answer why i can't buy....

Probably because their PayPal account was "suspended" due to the amount of orders they got in a short period of time, and PayPal thought there's something shady going on. It will probably be unblocked soon.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: jasonbigdick on 09:39 AM - 11/20/21
just ordered one, paid with PayPal, and the order status shows "Awaiting Shipping".
i am in China, the Shipping Cost is $10.00, i dont know which delivery company they will choose, and dont know when they will ship.

(https://i.imgur.com/q946Xbq.png)

Do you know where do they ship from? 10 USD seems like it’s from Asia region.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: thornlutz on 09:42 AM - 11/20/21
just ordered one, paid with PayPal, and the order status shows "Awaiting Shipping".
i am in China, the Shipping Cost is $10.00, i dont know which delivery company they will choose, and dont know when they will ship.

(https://i.imgur.com/q946Xbq.png)

Do you know where do they ship from? 10 USD seems like it’s from Asia region.


It's from China. Atleast that's where our money is going to.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: maasman on 09:44 AM - 11/20/21
Contacted Them and asked about when IT Will be shipped. Next week all orders Will be shipped they said. So patiens all
how is it They write back to you. and they can't answer why i can't buy....

Because i placed An order and then you van send a massage in your account with the inbox function. So shipment is next week 👍
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Skogstokig on 10:04 AM - 11/20/21
still

The merchant account is restricted.

:(
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: SneakyTurtle on 11:00 AM - 11/20/21
still

The merchant account is restricted.

:(

Yeah, me too. Can't order one.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: SLeePLatED on 11:52 AM - 11/20/21
still

The merchant account is restricted.

:(

Same!!!
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Loki11 on 12:51 PM - 11/20/21
still

The merchant account is restricted.

:(
Me too :(

Same!!!
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: lzj122610 on 08:36 PM - 11/20/21
it seems Beloader has a chinese version.
just bought one on the chinese shopping website Taobao.com, the seller says it is in stock and is the chinese version of Beloader, they have 20 stocks on sale for review in China, the only difference between this and the Beloader.com version is the plastic shell.
i think it maybe the engineering prototype, i have ordered one, he says he will ship it tomorrow via S.F. Express, supposed to delivery the day after tomorrow, once i received it, i will update my experience.
(https://i.imgur.com/fIsuaWQ.jpg)
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: He4DHuNt3r on 09:15 PM - 11/20/21
Link?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 09:36 PM - 11/20/21
The Beloader guys said it will be available on TaoBao in the next day or two, so this would make sense.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: lzj122610 on 09:50 PM - 11/20/21
Link?
it is a sub-site of Taobao.com, which is like eBay, the link is
“https://market.m.taobao.com/app/idleFish-F2e/widle-taobao-rax/page-detail?wh_weex=true&wx_navbar_transparent=true&id=660974857069&ut_sk=1.XEWXEtmgJ28DAGQTbaf9udAi_12431167_1637466117677.Copy.detail.660974857069.652393942&forceFlush=1”
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: He4DHuNt3r on 10:02 PM - 11/20/21
Is there a desktop version link?

this brings up a mobile version of the site, I can't seem to click on anything due to a pop up asking me to download something.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: lzj122610 on 10:44 PM - 11/20/21
Is there a desktop version link?

this brings up a mobile version of the site, I can't seem to click on anything due to a pop up asking me to download something.
nope, TaoBao no longer provide the website-based “XianYu” (the second-hand trade platform of TaoBao) since last year, only on XianYu app.
but i think soon the device will be on sale on the official store on taobao.com, it has global version website.
i think it will be in the next few days, just wait
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: izzy on 02:12 AM - 11/21/21
Hold your horses boys. As mentioned, this dongle has caveats.

It's a wireless Remote Play client. That alone is cause for concern as it's very likely that almost all of us will have more lag than we would consider acceptable with a XIM.

Wait and see how it plays out when Od1n has a chance to test it, but ethernet Remote Play from PC, Mac or PS4 will be faster and more reliable.

Hello, I will be going the remote play route. But I'd like to ask which device would be better for me to use remote play on.. A pc or a ps4?
Which one do you think will work smoother with less performance issues.

Thanks
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: jkfelix69 on 04:30 AM - 11/21/21
Hello all. My message is probably going to irritate most... I'm sorry. So it appears there are two places to buy the Beloader, although the official site seems to have payment issues. Is everyone waiting until the Beloader can be easily ordered? Or is there somewhere that I can get my hands on it now? Any links would be much appreciated. Any other information will also be much appreciated. Thanks guys and gals.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Loki11 on 04:42 AM - 11/21/21
I have had enough for 3 days I can't buy it and I see that the sale of them is growing and now I am writing that only 11 pieces available..... what's going on......
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Catacomb on 06:17 AM - 11/21/21
I have had enough for 3 days I can't buy it and I see that the sale of them is growing and now I am writing that only 11 pieces available..... what's going on......
  I think they have only problems with PayPal, the other payment options seems to be working fine.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: duyphuc1610 on 06:25 AM - 11/21/21
But it only has 1 option Paypal, no other payment gateway
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Loki11 on 06:38 AM - 11/21/21
I have had enough for 3 days I can't buy it and I see that the sale of them is growing and now I am writing that only 11 pieces available..... what's going on......
  I think they have only problems with PayPal, the other payment options seems to be working fine.

when I click on the credit card, he writes the same to me
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Catacomb on 07:01 AM - 11/21/21
I have had enough for 3 days I can't buy it and I see that the sale of them is growing and now I am writing that only 11 pieces available..... what's going on......
  I think they have only problems with PayPal, the other payment options seems to be working fine.

when I click on the credit card, he writes the same to me
2 friends ordered trough credit card and 1 trough SEPA, but that was yesterday maybe something changed today.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: MrBrutalFrosty on 10:26 AM - 11/21/21
I personally had to order via PayPal still no shipping information though I also didn't register
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: MrBrutalFrosty on 10:33 AM - 11/21/21
Due to the problem of receiving account, the purchase will be reopened next week. The orders that have been successfully paid will be shipped next week. Please pay attention to the shipping information from official web.

They updated description
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Loki11 on 03:35 AM - 11/22/21
Hello, I have a question because I can buy a loader but I mean how to use it (I've already seen the video) but I have such a problem with wifi, it's hard for me.  i play on a wired network and I saw that you need to enter wifi on this program or it will be possible somehow to do with cables ???. and the second question, do you have to do these settings only once on the computer and then without doing it? so I run ps5 with beloader and play?... does not work exactly me wifi on the computer :(
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: xyphonic on 04:25 AM - 11/22/21
Hopefully this isn't too off-topic but I have a quick question OBsIV: since we're now considering wired Remote Play to be the go-to method for using an XIM with the latest PS5 games that require the DualSense, is there a possibility of giving the XIM 4 another look for next-gen compatibility? Maybe something like a dedicated next-gen-only beta firmware that allows the XIM 4 to function with Remote Play and the next-gen STs? Could the XIM 4's hardware memory limitations be overcome with an optional firmware that drops legacy support?

Of course you have to prioritize where your time and energy is spent, but it seems like many PS5+XIM owners, myself included, have caved and also bought a Series X so they can continue to get the absolute best performance (and least complicated setup) when using an XIM with next-gen games.  It would be great if I could just leave my Apex connected to my Series X, which is now my dedicated FPS platform, and then leave the XIM 4+Dualshock connected to my PC for use with my PS5 when I want to play Sony exclusives.

Just wishful thinking. It bums me out that my trusty ol' XIM 4 is just collecting dust these days.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 04:38 AM - 11/22/21
Beloader will work with XIM 4, as will PC or Mac Remote Play (it already does). AFAIK, XIM 4 is already Series X / S compatible.

The hope is that if Remote Play proves reliable that we’ll get PS5 STs. In which case XIM 4 will get them too.

Nothing however will get DualSense support, that’s what Remote Play is for.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: sahin1986 on 05:06 AM - 11/22/21
can we play the ps5 game now with beloader
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 05:21 AM - 11/22/21
Beloader uses Remote Play. You can use Remote Play on PC, Mac or PS4 to play all PS5 games right now.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: xyphonic on 05:30 AM - 11/22/21
Beloader will work with XIM 4, as will PC or Mac Remote Play (it already does). AFAIK, XIM 4 is already Series X / S compatible.

The hope is that if Remote Play proves reliable that we’ll get PS5 STs. In which case XIM 4 will get them too.

Nothing however will get DualSense support, that’s what Remote Play is for.

Right, maybe I wasn’t clear enough but I was specifically asking about PS5 ST support on the XIM 4 while it’s connected to the PS5 via Remote Play. I know it’s not currently supported but hopefully the XIM team will look into adding PS5 ST support in the future. When I made the switch to the Apex last year there was talk of some hardware memory limitation on the XIM 4 preventing it from being compatible with the new ST format.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 05:35 AM - 11/22/21
XIM 4, XIM APEX and XIM NEXUS all use the same STs. The memory limitation on XIM 4 restricts the changes that can be made to firmware.

If all goes well with the Beloader dongle &/or wide acceptance of Remote Play for PS5 compatibility, hopefully we'll get PS5 STs, which will work on XIM 4 too.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: BokiWan on 06:14 AM - 11/22/21
THX ! I just placed my Order successfully ! It seems, like there is a problem with either registering an account before ordering or with macOS !? I just ordered it without pre-registration and via mobile phone, get it ordered instantly without issues !

Maybe their website also is not that well programmed, had also issues with registtration process before :-/
how can you check order status? i tried registrating with the email i ordered from. it gives me member id errorr.

and i have only a paypal receit. havent got an email order confirmation from beloader yet

I‘ve registered a new Account with the very same email adress, I previously used for paypal order. I could instantly see my Order and Staus in my Order History Section of my beloader.com Account ! Right now it stands at „Await Shipping“

Try it now again, it didn‘t worked for me at first too… I tried it again today and it worked for me ! I you still get error, make shure You use exactly the same email adress of your paypal order, or maybe you can try to go with the „ forgot my password“ process !?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: thornlutz on 06:45 AM - 11/22/21
THX ! I just placed my Order successfully ! It seems, like there is a problem with either registering an account before ordering or with macOS !? I just ordered it without pre-registration and via mobile phone, get it ordered instantly without issues !

Maybe their website also is not that well programmed, had also issues with registtration process before :-/
how can you check order status? i tried registrating with the email i ordered from. it gives me member id errorr.

and i have only a paypal receit. havent got an email order confirmation from beloader yet

I‘ve registered a new Account with the very same email adress, I previously used for paypal order. I could instantly see my Order and Staus in my Order History Section of my beloader.com Account ! Right now it stands at „Await Shipping“

Try it now again, it didn‘t worked for me at first too… I tried it again today and it worked for me ! I you still get error, make shure You use exactly the same email adress of your paypal order, or maybe you can try to go with the „ forgot my password“ process !?

Did what you said, it worked. Thank you bro!
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Loki11 on 07:04 AM - 11/22/21
XIM 4, XIM APEX and XIM NEXUS all use the same STs. The memory limitation on XIM 4 restricts the changes that can be made to firmware.

If all goes well with the Beloader dongle &/or wide acceptance of Remote Play for PS5 compatibility, hopefully we'll get PS5 STs, which will work on XIM 4 too.
whether the beloader must be turned on each time remote play ?

Can I have wired internet during the configuration on the computer or do I have to have wifi? I mean the moment when he gives wifi acc and wifi pass in the configuration
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: maasman on 08:37 AM - 11/22/21
XIM 4, XIM APEX and XIM NEXUS all use the same STs. The memory limitation on XIM 4 restricts the changes that can be made to firmware.

If all goes well with the Beloader dongle &/or wide acceptance of Remote Play for PS5 compatibility, hopefully we'll get PS5 STs, which will work on XIM 4 too.
whether the beloader must be turned on each time remote play ?

Can I have wired internet during the configuration on the computer or do I have to have wifi? I mean the moment when he gives wifi acc and wifi pass in the configuration

what i see on the video from beloaded. you just need to fill in the wifi password and all set.

see here the intrustion video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88rNyBVnsCs
and you can use the duel sence controller with the xim so no 3th party controller needed any more
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Loki11 on 09:05 AM - 11/22/21
haha that's big @#$%. I am already in the order and when I click pay now.   I continue to write the seller's account is restricted @#$%!!!
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: lzj122610 on 09:21 AM - 11/22/21
shipped, maybe tomorrow night i will receive it
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 09:37 AM - 11/22/21
Looking at their video, I would not plug it in the back of the console if your Wifi router isn't in that direction.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Swaim on 10:00 AM - 11/22/21
Looking at their video, I would not plug it in the back of the console if your Wifi router isn't in that direction.
https://c2n.me/4e57mO5
Is it normal that xim is shine all colors?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: maasman on 11:27 AM - 11/22/21
Looking at their video, I would not plug it in the back of the console if your Wifi router isn't in that direction.

got an usb extension cord that it is in the ps5 and in the extension i put the xim. so the xim is laying down on the table :). dont like the friction if it is outside of the console. so think the beloader will go in the extension and then the xim will go in the beloader :) and i got luck that the 2nd wifi extension is next to the ps5 :)
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Loki11 on 01:14 PM - 11/22/21
Anyone else have a problem with buying like me?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Sonicspinner on 03:06 PM - 11/22/21
Looking at their video, I would not plug it in the back of the console if your Wifi router isn't in that direction.

why not?

well my ps5 is next to my apple router. so this should be ok.
i dont know why they recommend 2.4 ghz. i have 2.4 and 5 ghz wifi running.
should i just use 2.4?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: thornlutz on 03:22 PM - 11/22/21
Looking at their video, I would not plug it in the back of the console if your Wifi router isn't in that direction.

why not?

well my ps5 is next to my apple router. so this should be ok.
i dont know why they recommend 2.4 ghz. i have 2.4 and 5 ghz wifi running.
should i just use 2.4?

I think you can use 5GHz if your router is close to the beloader when it is plugged in, because the differences between the two is that one provides faster speeds but over a smaller area. Meanwhile, 2.4GHz provides slower speeds but has a better reach. I think the Bealoder team said 2.4GHz due to the majority having their routers in the other room and so forth.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Xupo on 11:22 PM - 11/22/21
Tbh, 50$ feels a bit overpriced for a thing that can be patched out easily by Sony in any moment and I am pretty sure they will not do anything if this happens. Sony can easily disable DS4 support for remote play and this thing will be useless, am I right? Also, is that me or there is noticeable input delay on their tutorial video?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: maasman on 11:32 PM - 11/22/21
Tbh, 50$ feels a bit overpriced for a thing that can be patched out easily by Sony in any moment and I am pretty sure they will not do anything if this happens. Sony can easily disable DS4 support for remote play and this thing will be useless, am I right? Also, is that me or there is noticeable input delay on their tutorial video?

You van put the duel sence controller in the xim with the beloader
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 12:54 AM - 11/23/21
Tbh, 50$ feels a bit overpriced for a thing that can be patched out easily by Sony in any moment and I am pretty sure they will not do anything if this happens. Sony can easily disable DS4 support for remote play and this thing will be useless, am I right? Also, is that me or there is noticeable input delay on their tutorial video?

If they remove DualShock 4 support from Remote Play they might as well completely remove the feature as a whole because a large share of their Remote Play ecosystem can only use DualShock 4 controllers but no DualSense. So its highly unlikely they will do that! :)
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 02:18 AM - 11/23/21
In any case, we've demonstrated that XIM APEX works with DualSense over Remote Play on both PC and Mac. It shouldn't work, but it does  ???
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Sonicspinner on 02:43 AM - 11/23/21
Looking at their video, I would not plug it in the back of the console if your Wifi router isn't in that direction.

why not?

well my ps5 is next to my apple router. so this should be ok.
i dont know why they recommend 2.4 ghz. i have 2.4 and 5 ghz wifi running.
should i just use 2.4?

I think you can use 5GHz if your router is close to the beloader when it is plugged in, because the differences between the two is that one provides faster speeds but over a smaller area. Meanwhile, 2.4GHz provides slower speeds but has a better reach. I think the Bealoder team said 2.4GHz due to the majority having their routers in the other room and so forth.

ok thanx! i will use the 5ghz then. beloader and router are 30 cm away7 from each other.with nothing in between
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: DerHertog on 03:24 AM - 11/23/21
Tbh, 50$ feels a bit overpriced for a thing that can be patched out easily by Sony in any moment and I am pretty sure they will not do anything if this happens. Sony can easily disable DS4 support for remote play and this thing will be useless, am I right? Also, is that me or there is noticeable input delay on their tutorial video?

If they remove DualShock 4 support from Remote Play they might as well completely remove the feature as a whole because a large share of their Remote Play ecosystem can only use DualShock 4 controllers but no DualSense. So its highly unlikely they will do that! :)

When will you drop the review video? ;-) We are all dieing to see it hehe
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Swaim on 04:18 AM - 11/23/21
Shipped
https://clip2net.com/s/4e5BcwO
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Sorothos on 07:52 AM - 11/23/21
Quote
Due to the problem of receiving account, the purchase will be reopened next week. The orders that have been successfully paid will be shipped next week. Please pay attention to the shipping information from official web.

https://www.beloader.com/product/index/details/id/38895.html

So we have to wait until next week for purchasing.

But If I get same / better results with wired Remote Play - I should stay with the current "solving" (Remote Play with wired connection) and waiting for Console Tuner hopefully finding a solution next year.

Because one thing should be clear: Remote Play in any form is an interim solution, but the ultimate goal can only be a device that works without additional PC or Remote Play functions from Sony.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: theoriginalkar on 08:14 AM - 11/23/21
I’m pretty new when it comes to remote play / this Beloader option. I’m currently running COD at 120hz on the PS5, does something like the Beloader still allow me to do that?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Boltman on 04:40 AM - 11/24/21
I’m pretty new when it comes to remote play / this Beloader option. I’m currently running COD at 120hz on the PS5, does something like the Beloader still allow me to do that?

Yea you'll still be able to run your game at 120.

Your PS5 hardware is still doing all the work. Your pc is only a pass through, remote play isn't really about your secondary devices' capabilities. Not for what we're doing anyways.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 12:50 AM - 11/25/21
But If I get same / better results with wired Remote Play - I should stay with the current "solving" (Remote Play with wired connection) and waiting for Console Tuner hopefully finding a solution next year.

Their solution will most likely just be a Remote Play stick too. Id be highly surprised if the Cronus Zen guys can solve a problem no one else in the industry can. And given how its the Cronus guys we are talking about it might as well be based on the Chiaki code.

If anyone will solve the problem then its the Beloader guys. By purchasing their device you fund their next project which is about cloning the PS5 security chip. That would be a big step towards direct compatibility.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Tohade on 02:53 AM - 11/25/21
"We are very sorry, but we have encountered a problem when delivering the goods to you. Your address belongs to the French Metropolitan area. At present, our express cannot be sent to this place. Therefore, we will first apply for a refund for you. Please note Check the Paypal information. You can try to change the address again after we reopen the purchase, maybe we will notify you to buy after changing the courier company later"

😢😢😢
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 06:11 AM - 11/25/21
But If I get same / better results with wired Remote Play - I should stay with the current "solving" (Remote Play with wired connection) and waiting for Console Tuner hopefully finding a solution next year.
Their solution will most likely just be a Remote Play stick too. Id be highly surprised if the Cronus Zen guys can solve a problem no one else in the industry can. And given how its the Cronus guys we are talking about it might as well be based on the Chiaki code.
Od1n, you may be confused. ConsoleTuner is J2Kbr and Titan Two, not Cronus Zen.

ConsoleTuner's solution is a modchipped DualSense. Beloader will be cheaper and potentially perform as well as a modded DualSense. We shall see...
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Boris228 on 06:48 AM - 11/25/21
https://youtu.be/MA4_qbIMAeQ
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Sorothos on 07:01 AM - 11/25/21
But If I get same / better results with wired Remote Play - I should stay with the current "solving" (Remote Play with wired connection) and waiting for Console Tuner hopefully finding a solution next year.

Their solution will most likely just be a Remote Play stick too. Id be highly surprised if the Cronus Zen guys can solve a problem no one else in the industry can. And given how its the Cronus guys we are talking about it might as well be based on the Chiaki code.

If anyone will solve the problem then its the Beloader guys. By purchasing their device you fund their next project which is about cloning the PS5 security chip. That would be a big step towards direct compatibility.

I am referring to Titan Two Guys, not Zen Guys.

But...
Is there a business relationship between XIM and Beloader? It is remarkable how much Beloader is praised and recommended by the XIM team.

I mean, this is a $50 gaming stick where you have to give your PSN data to make it work - the same works with remote play in a secure way without giving your account data to a Chinese gaming stick manufacturer.

Why the advertising for Beloader?
I am still skeptical.
I see no advantage - remote play, as before. No cracked code, just a workaround.
So I can't quite understand the praise for Beloader.

I don't even know: who is the team behind Beloader, is it worth investing, what will come the next years? Are they trustworthy? I can't find any information, that they need money to clone the PS5 security chip...

The homepage and the blocked PayPal account are already unserious. Many customers here do not know what is with their orders.
And there I am supposed to enter my PSN account data directly for initial setup?!

EDIT: The item Beloader has 20 ratings with 5 stars since day 1. This has not changed until today. The ratings on this homepage alone are fake. You can't even rate it.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Boltman on 08:13 AM - 11/25/21
So why exactly are you so upset about it Sorothos?

Or are you just venting your thoughts out loud?

I don't know exactly what you want?

I use remote play with my laptop & PS5 wired. I like the convenience of beloader but I'm not paying $50 for something I don't really "need". I might get it one day, it's kinda a pain having my laptop on and nearby.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 10:49 AM - 11/25/21
Is there a business relationship between XIM and Beloader? It is remarkable how much Beloader is praised and recommended by the XIM team.

There is absolutely no business relationship between Beloader and XIM.

They approached me and I offered that we would evaluate the device and provide an opinion. I sent it to Od1n and he was pleasantly surprised how well it personally worked for him considering all other RP solutions he tried performed notably worse. I'm waiting on more feedback from the community about it before we start officially building PS5 translators.  That is the extent of things related to this.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Sorothos on 12:16 PM - 11/25/21
So why exactly are you so upset about it Sorothos?

Or are you just venting your thoughts out loud?

I don't know exactly what you want?

I use remote play with my laptop & PS5 wired. I like the convenience of beloader but I'm not paying $50 for something I don't really "need". I might get it one day, it's kinda a pain having my laptop on and nearby.

I don't find the company trustworthy so far and you have to submit your PSN data to make the stick work. That's the only reason I'm just cautious and want to make it understandable to more people (in terms of data security).

It is clear to me that you have to enter the data for the stick to work, it is based on remote play after all.

Imagine that at some point this data is stolen or misused.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 12:28 PM - 11/25/21
I'd agree with you about your PSN credentials. But, like all RP soltuions, you only enter your credentials into a Sony website. The website will produce a PSN ID that is used. Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but, the PSN ID doesn't look like something that can be used for theft.

But certainly, if you don't feel comfortable with the device and how it works, then, definitely don't use it. This is why the Beloader people wanted XIM to brand it and sell it because of potential trust issues like this. This isn't the type of device and solution we would want to brand. Or, even if it was, we would build it ourselves.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Boltman on 01:22 PM - 11/25/21
I'd agree with you about your PSN credentials. But, like all RP soltuions, you only enter your credentials into a Sony website. The website will produce a PSN ID that is used. Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but, the PSN ID doesn't look like something that can be used for theft.

But certainly, if you don't feel comfortable with the device and how it works, then, definitely don't use it. This is why the Beloader people wanted XIM to brand it and sell it because of potential trust issues like this. This isn't the type of device and solution we would want to brand. Or, even if it was, we would build it ourselves.

I'm assuming you're looking at building & branding one yourselves before releasing nexus? I realize a massive portion of your apex sales & future nexus sales are to Sony console users.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 02:21 PM - 11/25/21
I'm assuming you're looking at building & branding one yourselves before releasing nexus?

No. I don't like the solution enough to invest in it.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 03:45 PM - 11/25/21
Is there a business relationship between XIM and Beloader? It is remarkable how much Beloader is praised and recommended by the XIM team.

I mean, this is a $50 gaming stick where you have to give your PSN data to make it work - the same works with remote play in a secure way without giving your account data to a Chinese gaming stick manufacturer.

Why the advertising for Beloader?
I am still skeptical.
I see no advantage - remote play, as before. No cracked code, just a workaround.
So I can't quite understand the praise for Beloader.
I've been a huge sceptic from the start and have openly voiced that opinion, so there's definitely no compulsion on behalf of XIM or the community to polish a turd.

I normally wouldn't give Beloader a second look based on the origin and security risks of the device, but Od1n's test results are very impressive for Wi-Fi and he has put my mind at ease regarding data access.

The convenience of the dongle will be the deciding factor for many PS5 gamers as this can already be done faster and more safely over ethernet Remote Play. It gets tiresome to fire up a computer just to use a XIM on PS5, so any viable solution is better than none.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 04:26 PM - 11/25/21
I am referring to Titan Two Guys, not Zen Guys.

But...
Is there a business relationship between XIM and Beloader? It is remarkable how much Beloader is praised and recommended by the XIM team.

I mean, this is a $50 gaming stick where you have to give your PSN data to make it work - the same works with remote play in a secure way without giving your account data to a Chinese gaming stick manufacturer.

Why the advertising for Beloader?
I am still skeptical.
I see no advantage - remote play, as before. No cracked code, just a workaround.
So I can't quite understand the praise for Beloader.

I don't even know: who is the team behind Beloader, is it worth investing, what will come the next years? Are they trustworthy? I can't find any information, that they need money to clone the PS5 security chip...

The homepage and the blocked PayPal account are already unserious. Many customers here do not know what is with their orders.
And there I am supposed to enter my PSN account data directly for initial setup?!

EDIT: The item Beloader has 20 ratings with 5 stars since day 1. This has not changed until today. The ratings on this homepage alone are fake. You can't even rate it.

I checked it via a wireshark equivalent installed on my router, couldnt find any suspicious activities. And if in doubt just use 2FA on your account. You should use unique passwords across all your logins anyway.

Also the product is really amazing, if someone would have told me 2 weeks ago that there is a wireless stick which does as good as wired Sony Remote Play i would have laughed. A good product deserves some praise, especially since there are so many people out there waiting for a good solution. It would be wrong to not advertise it.
Also Beloader didnt want to become the vendor but only the supplier. Since they started selling it by themselvs they had to organize a webshop and website from the scratch, hence it doesnt look professional and they have issues with their Paypal Account.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: vr6 on 04:38 PM - 11/25/21
If my headset is plugged in the PS5, does voice chat still work?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 06:29 PM - 11/25/21
If my headset is plugged in the PS5, does voice chat still work?

That didnt work for me if we talk about the controller audio port with Beloader. But i also have no headset that is really DualShock 4 compatible. I suspect the 4 pole connector ones i have use the other popular polarity as they are older. If its the correct one then voice chat didnt work.
In that case use a cheap USB soundcard.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: SneakyTurtle on 03:30 AM - 11/26/21
I was finally able to order a Beloader via PayPal, even with 14 days payment pause and shipping to Germany.
I am very curious how well the Beloader will work, also later with Xim Nexus.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Sorothos on 05:46 AM - 11/26/21
I am referring to Titan Two Guys, not Zen Guys.

But...
Is there a business relationship between XIM and Beloader? It is remarkable how much Beloader is praised and recommended by the XIM team.

I mean, this is a $50 gaming stick where you have to give your PSN data to make it work - the same works with remote play in a secure way without giving your account data to a Chinese gaming stick manufacturer.

Why the advertising for Beloader?
I am still skeptical.
I see no advantage - remote play, as before. No cracked code, just a workaround.
So I can't quite understand the praise for Beloader.

I don't even know: who is the team behind Beloader, is it worth investing, what will come the next years? Are they trustworthy? I can't find any information, that they need money to clone the PS5 security chip...

The homepage and the blocked PayPal account are already unserious. Many customers here do not know what is with their orders.
And there I am supposed to enter my PSN account data directly for initial setup?!

EDIT: The item Beloader has 20 ratings with 5 stars since day 1. This has not changed until today. The ratings on this homepage alone are fake. You can't even rate it.

I checked it via a wireshark equivalent installed on my router, couldnt find any suspicious activities. And if in doubt just use 2FA on your account. You should use unique passwords across all your logins anyway.

Also the product is really amazing, if someone would have told me 2 weeks ago that there is a wireless stick which does as good as wired Sony Remote Play i would have laughed. A good product deserves some praise, especially since there are so many people out there waiting for a good solution. It would be wrong to not advertise it.
Also Beloader didnt want to become the vendor but only the supplier. Since they started selling it by themselvs they had to organize a webshop and website from the scratch, hence it doesnt look professional and they have issues with their Paypal Account.

@Od1n @antithesis @OBsIV

Thank you very much for your answers. I think it's good that decisions are presented in an understandable way when asked, that's nice of you.

I didn't want to completely badmouth the device either, I just had my reservations and therefore couldn't quite assess why someone recommends the device so strongly.

Now I can understand it.

Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: xoinkx on 06:46 AM - 11/26/21
I bought it too.
Shipping to Germany.
Lets fuxxing go
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Domenic.HRO on 08:40 AM - 11/26/21
Hello, one question, I am considering buying the beloader.  When I use it, does 4k 60hz work normally?  Or is the game in 1080p ?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: xoinkx on 09:16 AM - 11/26/21
Hello, one question, I am considering buying the beloader.  When I use it, does 4k 60hz work normally?  Or is the game in 1080p ?
Its your selected solution.
You playn at your console not at the device (beloader)
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: LiMiT on 11:11 AM - 11/26/21
The security issues are real though, even if you submit your information to a Sony site, there is nothing saying that there isn't a keylogger in the Beloader program...  8)

But then again, you still would be protected by the 2FA - provided you have activated it (which you definitely should).
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: LiMiT on 11:15 AM - 11/26/21
Is there a business relationship between XIM and Beloader? It is remarkable how much Beloader is praised and recommended by the XIM team.

There is absolutely no business relationship between Beloader and XIM.

They approached me and I offered that we would evaluate the device and provide an opinion. I sent it to Od1n and he was pleasantly surprised how well it personally worked for him considering all other RP solutions he tried performed notably worse. I'm waiting on more feedback from the community about it before we start officially building PS5 translators.  That is the extent of things related to this.

I for one would love a PS5 BF2042 ST to try this thing out with...
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Boltman on 12:03 PM - 11/26/21
The security issues are real though, even if you submit your information to a Sony site, there is nothing saying that there isn't a keylogger in the Beloader program...  8)

But then again, you still would be protected by the 2FA - provided you have activated it (which you definitely should).

I think most people nowadays are running 2FA. I not only run 2FA but I also have the authenticator as an added feature.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: DerHertog on 12:17 PM - 11/26/21
Finally got my shipping link from beloader (paid with paypal without making an account).

Had to ask and mail for it though..
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: xoinkx on 02:33 PM - 11/26/21
Finally got my shipping link from beloader (paid with paypal without making an account).

Had to ask and mail for it though..

What shipping Methode did they use?
Because 10$ !
DHL Express?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 02:56 PM - 11/26/21
I think most people nowadays are running 2FA. I not only run 2FA but I also have the authenticator as an added feature.
I use unique email addies, complex passwords, 2FA apps, SMS codes, Google Authenticator and Authy on everything.

Imagine my surprise when a bank account that I have never used the card for online gets drained of $35K in 24 hours earlier this year  :o  Fortunately I got the money back, but my bank did nothing to prevent it, nor did they tell me it happened.

Hence my paranoia over internet security. 2FA or not, there’s always a back door and it relies on the integrity of the provider. Beloader has no reputation to trust and they haven’t made the best first impression, but the product itself looks solid.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: DerHertog on 03:29 PM - 11/26/21
Finally got my shipping link from beloader (paid with paypal without making an account).

Had to ask and mail for it though..

What shipping Methode did they use?
Because 10$ !
DHL Express?

4px, some chinese company.. never heard of it.

Probably going to take a while before it arrives in Netherlands
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: maasman on 01:45 AM - 11/27/21
Finally got my shipping link from beloader (paid with paypal without making an account).

Had to ask and mail for it though..

What shipping Methode did they use?
Because 10$ !
DHL Express?

4px, some chinese company.. never heard of it.

Probably going to take a while before it arrives in Netherlands

4px is 1 van de snelste die levert vanuit China naar Nederland. Ben blij dat ze 4px gebruiken voor leveren aan ons
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Loki76 on 04:08 AM - 11/27/21
Wired Remote Play will be better than what they're selling. Do that instead, if you can. Wired Remote Play is less than 1ms and is faster than a direct USB connection (a minimum of 1ms).

If you don't have a PC, Mac or PS4, then a Beloader is the next best option, if you can't make your own Raspberry Pi Chiaki Remote Play client. That said, Beloader seems to be faster and more efficient than Chiaki. Personally, as impressive as the Beloader's wifi performance may be, I'll be waiting for something better to come along.

I'm not trying to poop on the PS5 picnic, but be realistic with expectations. This is not the golden bullet that'll solve the PS5 DualSense problem and PS5 is not likely to be supported by XIM as a result of Beloader's release.

Beloader is a workaround for PS5, similar to the specialty third-party PS4 controllers we all have gathering dust. Remote Play is more likely to be supported well into the future by Sony, so it's a solid workaround.

Sony remote play to PC is 1080p resolution only..
If this Beloader can just do the inputs and keep the game at 4K resolution, it would be the better choice.
One is a severe downgrade and might as well play PS4 games, the other keeps the game looking like it should..

Now I don't know which is true yet. But that would be the big difference that would make the Beloader a better option.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Cookies2Eat on 04:15 AM - 11/27/21
@Loki76

It was mentioned a million times man...

In every case (beloader, remote play, pi, etc) you're not using video from 2nd device. It's just an input device. The screen is connected directly to PS5 and your video and audio output is going FROM PS5.


Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Boltman on 04:28 AM - 11/27/21
@Loki76

It was mentioned a million times man...

In every case (beloader, remote play, pi, etc) you're not using video from 2nd device. It's just an input device. The screen is connected directly to PS5 and your video and audio output is going FROM PS5.

And on top of that he's wrong about it only being 1080. You can set it down to 360 and that's fine because you're looking at the output of your PS5 not the pc.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Kostas on 01:23 PM - 11/27/21
Hello to all , im trying to get a beloader and im keep getting that message

The requested action could not be performed, semantically incorrect, or failed business validation.

Anyone knows why .
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Snoofy on 07:02 AM - 11/30/21
With the Beloader can I connect the PS5 to the internet via cable or do I have to use the WIFI also for the PS5?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: maasman on 07:56 AM - 11/30/21
With the Beloader can I connect the PS5 to the internet via cable or do I have to use the WIFI also for the PS5?

ps5 with ethernet cable. and with the beloader wifi
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Wittmann on 09:04 AM - 11/30/21
I played 5 hours with (Wi-Fi 4) 2.4GHz

and feel good  :)

(https://i.imgur.com/fxZWxZr.jpg)
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: xoinkx on 11:09 AM - 11/30/21
I played 5 hours with WIFI5 2.4GHz

and feel good  :)
Not a valid %s URL(https://i.imgur.com/fxZWxZr.jpg)

How long did the delivery take?
Duty paid?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Y on 03:31 PM - 11/30/21
I played 5 hours with WIFI5 2.4GHz

and feel good  :)

(https://i.imgur.com/fxZWxZr.jpg)
]

What games did you play? And does Spotify work?

I have macbook pro and I have to pay the same amount of money as Beloader cost to buy an ethernet switch + ethernet cables + ethernet adapter

Which one do you recommend for the best performance? wired remote paly or beloader?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: theoriginalkar on 04:53 PM - 11/30/21
I played 5 hours with WIFI5 2.4GHz

and feel good  :)
Not a valid %s URL(https://i.imgur.com/fxZWxZr.jpg)

How long did the delivery take?
Duty paid?

I just ordered mine a few days ago (shipped today to Canada). This is what the tracking number says:

13 Dec 2021 - 17 Dec 2021, 14 - 18 days remaining
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 06:13 PM - 11/30/21
I have macbook pro and I have to pay the same amount of money as Beloader cost to buy an ethernet switch + ethernet cables + ethernet adapter

Which one do you recommend for the best performance? wired remote paly or beloader?
Ethernet will be faster and more stable. Also, Beloader doesn't support Mac for device setup.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Wittmann on 11:40 PM - 11/30/21

What games did you play? And does Spotify work?

I have macbook pro and I have to pay the same amount of money as Beloader cost to buy an ethernet switch + ethernet cables + ethernet adapter

Which one do you recommend for the best performance? wired remote paly or beloader?

Spotify doesn’t work

(https://i.imgur.com/DOxWjEW.jpg)

I played Battlefield 2042

My set
PS5 with Wired
Beloader WiFi4 2.4GHz
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Boltman on 08:01 AM - 12/01/21
There are quite a few apps you can't use during remote play (I've tried). Spotify, YouTube, any of the show watching apps (Amazon, Netflix, HBO etc). Yes it sucks but if I'm using my remote play setup it's only to play BF2042. If I'm watching stuff then I just use the dualsense and no remote play.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Loki11 on 12:18 PM - 12/02/21
Hello, can i play via ethernet cable on beloader ? I was watching the guide but I don't understand English very much. how can you describe it?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 02:16 PM - 12/02/21
Hello, can i play via ethernet cable on beloader ? I was watching the guide but I don't understand English very much. how can you describe it?
Beloader is wireless. The PS5 should be wired for the lowest input lag.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Loki11 on 03:02 PM - 12/02/21
Hello, can i play via ethernet cable on beloader ? I was watching the guide but I don't understand English very much. how can you describe it?
Beloader is wireless. The PS5 should be wired for the lowest input lag.
but I mean can I play via ethernet cable and not wifi
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 03:23 PM - 12/02/21
Beloader has no Ethernet support, it’s wireless only. The PS5 should be wired, if possible in your setup.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Loki11 on 03:43 PM - 12/02/21
I don't know, that's why I ask :)
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: GhettoFishcake on 04:22 PM - 12/03/21
Mine flashes red and green with the included info suggesting that's a 'Host Registration Failure'

Any thoughts on what that might mean?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Loki11 on 06:01 AM - 12/04/21
hello what software do me need to have in xim for beloader to work well?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 06:35 AM - 12/04/21
Use the latest XIM Beta firmware :)
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Lukasz on 09:13 AM - 12/05/21
Hey,

Does any of you use the Beloader/Titan 2/Apex combo?

I can get the Apex to work through Beloader but not the Titan 2.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 11:56 AM - 12/05/21
That was one of the things i tried to test how many inputs per second the beloader can support. Titan + XIM worked for me, but only when settings the Titan protocol to PS4 instead of PS5.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Lukasz on 12:36 PM - 12/05/21
I see, I am going to try it later then.

Do you think this will have some negative effects? I mean it should still play PS5 games, right?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Lukasz on 01:14 PM - 12/05/21
Unfortunately, for me it is still no go, even when Titan is set to PS4, red light on the out put of titan
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: stromdriver on 05:48 PM - 12/05/21
so is the consensus that beloader and xim apex are a "functional" option for using mouse&kb(or nav controller) for dualsense games like bf2042 on ps5?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: elcabone on 08:18 AM - 12/06/21
so is the consensus that beloader and xim apex are a "functional" option for using mouse&kb(or nav controller) for dualsense games like bf2042 on ps5?

Exactly
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: GhettoFishcake on 09:19 AM - 12/06/21
Unfortunately, for me it is still no go, even when Titan is set to PS4, red light on the out put of titan

Whilst it's clearly working for many, there are 'some' - including me, who are struggling to get it to function. The setup is easy; this isn't a user error problem. Beloader to their credit, are also responsive in attempting to resolve the problem.

That all said, I'm expecting any path towards a refund is unlikely, although I haven't poked for that as yet. I'm also expecting at this point that I'll never get it to work.

Its not a huge financial hit, but something to keep in mind...
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Lukasz on 09:55 AM - 12/06/21
Unfortunately, for me it is still no go, even when Titan is set to PS4, red light on the out put of titan

Whilst it's clearly working for many, there are 'some' - including me, who are struggling to get it to function. The setup is easy; this isn't a user error problem. Beloader to their credit, are also responsive in attempting to resolve the problem.

That all said, I'm expecting any path towards a refund is unlikely, although I haven't poked for that as yet. I'm also expecting at this point that I'll never get it to work.

Its not a huge financial hit, but something to keep in mind...
I mean if I only use XIM Apex with it then it works for me no problem, it is only when I am trying to use it with Titan 2. So far I have been trying to use it with PS5 controller and I am thinking this may be the issue. I will see if anything changes if I use a different controller.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Lukasz on 02:37 AM - 12/07/21
Unfortunately, I have tried it with the Hori controller I use to use for the first PS5 solution and still no luck, titan 2 still does not work with Beloander
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 03:02 AM - 12/07/21
Try changing the Titan Two Output Protocol.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Lukasz on 03:11 AM - 12/07/21
Hi bossman,

I have tried doing anything from XBOX 360 to PS5 and 1000Mhz all the way to 125Hz and with Deloander none of these work.

Do you use the Beloader?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: antithesis on 03:40 AM - 12/07/21
I have one on order. I’ll test it with T2 when it arrives.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Lukasz on 03:50 AM - 12/07/21
Cool, let me know how it goes.

I don't know it this matters but my Titan 2 also stopped working with the Hori controller, you know one of these used fro the first workaround.

When I try to use it now it does not seem as though that controller gets turned on.

Maybe something wrong with my Titan 2?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Sorothos on 05:25 AM - 12/07/21
Oh no, I also use a Titan Two, I hope I didn't order the Beloader for nothing then. My Beloader currently has the following status: China to Germany - Transit in 7 day
After that I will be able to test it.

But at the moment I'm already playing with the Titan Two via Remote Play - for that to work I need to set the output protocol to PS4.

Have you already tried that? So my Titan Two + XIM works on the PC via Remote Play for PS5 games. Without Hori or anything else. Just XIM in Port A.



Quote
Please note the following setup for the Titan Two
1. Download Remote Play: https://remoteplay.dl.playstation.net/r ... 5_win.html
2. Log in with your Playstation Account you playing
3. Make sure both usb cables behind the titan are connected to your PC
4. Connect your Playstation 5 Controller to either port on the front of your Titan Two
5. Make sure remote play is enabled: PS5 settings -> system -> remote play enable
6. Go to Gtuner and click on "Device Configuration" (bottem right)
7. Go to output protocol and select "USB Playstation 4"


So thats maybe the problem?!?! - maybe you have to connect both cable to the PC to make Remote Play work.
So literally you have to connect Titan Two with both cable to Beloader.

Maybe Beloader --> USB Hub --> both cable from Titan Two?!?

But there is another post in the Titan Two forum, it says:

Quote
hi all, looks like in this post is mistake or it has been made for pads only.
i tested multiple confogirations to setup remote play and keyboard and mouse.

for me its working like that:
1. Download Remote Play: https://remoteplay.dl.playstation.net/r ... 5_win.html
2. Log in with your Playstation Account you playing
3. Make sure ONLY ONE usb cables behind the titan are connected to your PC (output)
4. here is information to connect ps5 controler but for me its working without any controler
5. Make sure remote play is enabled: PS5 settings -> system -> remote play enable
6. Go to Gtuner and click on "Device Configuration" (bottem right)
7. Go to output protocol and select "USB Playstation 4
8. connect mouse to port A on the front of titan 2
9. connect keyboard to port B on the front of titan 2

for me this configuration is working without any issue, tested in few different games ps4 and ps5
all scripts game packs and keyboard , mouse settings from titan 2 works correct

Ignore 8 and 9, you just have to put XIM to Port A.



Please test these things, maybe it works.(https://www.consoletuner.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18760&start=20)
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Lukasz on 05:44 AM - 12/07/21
Sure, I will give that one a go.

That being said, I thought XIM needs a controller connected to it for it to actually work.

Maybe remote play is different because the remote software, or remote dongle like Belonader, is acting as the controller ?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Sorothos on 05:46 AM - 12/07/21
Sure, I will give that one a go.

That being said, I thought XIM needs a controller connected to it for it to actually work.

Maybe remote play is different because the remote software, or remote dongle like Belonader, is acting as the controller ?

If you connect to PC and use Remote Play, you don't have to use speciality Controller (like HORI Mini) on Port B, it works for itself if you just put XIM in Port A and change protocol to PS4.

In the XIM you connect PS4 Controller (version 2!) in Port 3, Mouse Port 1 and Keyboard Port 2.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Lukasz on 05:48 AM - 12/07/21
Cool, I will give that a go when I get home later today and late you know.

It does seem plausible that their is a conflict if both the Beloader acts as a controller and XIM.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Loki11 on 11:49 AM - 12/07/21
hello why my beloader is green and flashing red what i do wrong everything according to the instructions i do. Please help
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Lukasz on 11:59 AM - 12/07/21
Oh no, I also use a Titan Two, I hope I didn't order the Beloader for nothing then. My Beloader currently has the following status: China to Germany - Transit in 7 day
After that I will be able to test it.

But at the moment I'm already playing with the Titan Two via Remote Play - for that to work I need to set the output protocol to PS4.

Have you already tried that? So my Titan Two + XIM works on the PC via Remote Play for PS5 games. Without Hori or anything else. Just XIM in Port A.



Quote
Please note the following setup for the Titan Two
1. Download Remote Play: https://remoteplay.dl.playstation.net/r ... 5_win.html
2. Log in with your Playstation Account you playing
3. Make sure both usb cables behind the titan are connected to your PC
4. Connect your Playstation 5 Controller to either port on the front of your Titan Two
5. Make sure remote play is enabled: PS5 settings -> system -> remote play enable
6. Go to Gtuner and click on "Device Configuration" (bottem right)
7. Go to output protocol and select "USB Playstation 4"


So thats maybe the problem?!?! - maybe you have to connect both cable to the PC to make Remote Play work.
So literally you have to connect Titan Two with both cable to Beloader.

Maybe Beloader --> USB Hub --> both cable from Titan Two?!?

But there is another post in the Titan Two forum, it says:

Quote
hi all, looks like in this post is mistake or it has been made for pads only.
i tested multiple confogirations to setup remote play and keyboard and mouse.

for me its working like that:
1. Download Remote Play: https://remoteplay.dl.playstation.net/r ... 5_win.html
2. Log in with your Playstation Account you playing
3. Make sure ONLY ONE usb cables behind the titan are connected to your PC (output)
4. here is information to connect ps5 controler but for me its working without any controler
5. Make sure remote play is enabled: PS5 settings -> system -> remote play enable
6. Go to Gtuner and click on "Device Configuration" (bottem right)
7. Go to output protocol and select "USB Playstation 4
8. connect mouse to port A on the front of titan 2
9. connect keyboard to port B on the front of titan 2

for me this configuration is working without any issue, tested in few different games ps4 and ps5
all scripts game packs and keyboard , mouse settings from titan 2 works correct

Ignore 8 and 9, you just have to put XIM to Port A.



Please test these things, maybe it works.(https://www.consoletuner.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18760&start=20)

I have tried all of the above and still no luck, I may be doing something wrong, but at this point it is not working for me.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: xoinkx on 05:13 PM - 12/07/21
hello why my beloader is green and flashing red what i do wrong everything according to the instructions i do. Please help

Xim Apex Beta?
Boloader updated?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Catacomb on 07:43 PM - 12/07/21
Had a little time to play around with the beloader, was a pita to get it working with the apex and still not sure what made it work. Latency wise I couldn't really notice a difference between beloader or wired remote play wifi 4 or 6 was the same. The only thing I noticed which could screw you up is that the farther away it's from you router somehow aiming gets worse. So it's the best to keep your beloader as close as possible to the router.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Bloodklot on 11:12 PM - 12/07/21
Sorry I’m a little late to the game.  This thread got away from me.  So does the beloader officially work with the xim apex and PS5? I see that the dongle has a usb connection and the YouTube poster, “XIM Central” said it just goes as an in-between connection between the PS5 and XIM apex.  I see that the Beloader has a usb connection so it makes sense.  But earlier in this thread people were saying that it was some sort of Remote Play type of dongle that needs wi-fi connection? That part doesn’t make much sense.  Will it work with the Hori Gamepad? I don’t own a dual shock V2.  Only V1 and of course the Dualsense.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Bloodklot on 12:08 AM - 12/08/21
So I just watched the setup procedure for the Beloader.  And it does appear to be a some sort of remote play reroute solution.  Although It is a little concerning to put all your PSN details and router information into it.  Is this now the best alternative to get xim apex to work with the PS5?  Do you foresee anything else in the horizon?  How do you like it?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Loki11 on 12:21 AM - 12/08/21
hello why my beloader is green and flashing red what i do wrong everything according to the instructions i do. Please help

Xim Apex Beta?
Boloader updated?
and how to go to the place? You know, I watched but I don't understand English well, I could describe it, please
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Sorothos on 04:17 AM - 12/08/21
I have tried all of the above and still no luck, I may be doing something wrong, but at this point it is not working for me.

It does not work for you when you tested the Beloader in the process or does not work for you also (with this tutorial) the normal remote play and titan Two?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: bigmasta on 04:38 AM - 12/08/21
My beloader is also not working with TT2. I changed the Output Protocol but no one is working :(
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Lukasz on 08:52 AM - 12/08/21
I have tried all of the above and still no luck, I may be doing something wrong, but at this point it is not working for me.

It does not work for you when you tested the Beloader in the process or does not work for you also (with this tutorial) the normal remote play and titan Two?

Yeah, I have actually misunderstood you at first. Anyway, I think I have tested every possible scenario with no luck.

I have tested Apex with a controller connected to Apex hub (both PS5 controller and speciality controller), no luck. I have tested with the controller (both PS5 controller and speciality controller) connected to TT2, no luck. I have even tested without a controller connected to either Apex or TT2, still no luck.

Unfortunately, I do not have an option to use a PC to test whether remote play works without the Beloander, if I could I would not have to get the dongle.

The odd thing is that I use to use TT2 and the speciality controller connected to Apex when playing PS5 games but then I had to take a break from games and when I came back this combo stopped working too. It is like the speciality controller does not authenticate or like it does not turn on in this combo. This is odd to me because this is how I use to play ever since I got my PS5.

Man, I regret not getting Xbox series X, I was really torn between the two and should have gone with Xbox Series X.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 08:56 AM - 12/08/21
Speciality controllers dont work with the Beloader, you cannot connect those to your Titan Two or XIM. The Titan protocol has to be set to PS4 or Xbox to work with the Beloader.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: He4DHuNt3r on 09:02 AM - 12/08/21
Speciality controllers dont work with the Beloader, you cannot connect those to your Titan Two or XIM. The Titan protocol has to be set to PS4 or Xbox to work with the Beloader.

Ah dammit, I'll need to borrow a DS4 then :(
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 09:04 AM - 12/08/21
Speciality controllers dont work with the Beloader, you cannot connect those to your Titan Two or XIM. The Titan protocol has to be set to PS4 or Xbox to work with the Beloader.

Ah dammit, I'll need to borrow a DS4 then :(

All it would take is enough community pushes on the Beloader website via the contact form.
Their previous adapter had speciality controller support, so i dont see why they cannot add it to the Beloader as well.

If enough people request it im sure they release a firmware update! :)
Title: Did you get the sample?
Post by: He4DHuNt3r on 09:10 AM - 12/08/21
All it would take is enough community pushes on the Beloader website via the contact form.
Their previous adapter had speciality controller support, so i dont see why they cannot add it to the Beloader as well.

If enough people request it im sure they release a firmware update! :)

Ah sweet, I might ask them if it's possible for them to add support at some point.

My Beloader package arrived in London yesterday, So hopefully I will have it in my hands by Friday! :D
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Lukasz on 09:13 AM - 12/08/21
Speciality controllers dont work with the Beloader, you cannot connect those to your Titan Two or XIM. The Titan protocol has to be set to PS4 or Xbox to work with the Beloader.

Hey Sir, I have actually tried using PS5 controller with TT2 set to ps4, but still no luck.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: bigmasta on 09:30 AM - 12/08/21
Speciality controllers dont work with the Beloader, you cannot connect those to your Titan Two or XIM. The Titan protocol has to be set to PS4 or Xbox to work with the Beloader.

Hey Sir, I have actually tried using PS5 controller with TT2 set to ps4, but still no luck.

Set USB Output Protocol to (USB Automatic PS4, XBOX....) make sure you have enough power for your XIM or TITAN2, because this was my Problem. Since I have an external Power source for my XIM or TITAN2, it works like a charme.

Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Lukasz on 09:39 AM - 12/08/21
Speciality controllers dont work with the Beloader, you cannot connect those to your Titan Two or XIM. The Titan protocol has to be set to PS4 or Xbox to work with the Beloader.

Hey Sir, I have actually tried using PS5 controller with TT2 set to ps4, but still no luck.


Set USB Output Protocol to (USB Automatic PS4, XBOX....) make sure you have enough power for your XIM or TITAN2, because this was my Problem. Since I have an external Power source for my XIM or TITAN2, it works like a charme.

That is something to try, my Xim has an external power source but TT 2 does not, I will have try this one
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: hope850610 on 11:57 AM - 12/08/21
That was one of the things i tried to test how many inputs per second the beloader can support. Titan + XIM worked for me, but only when settings the Titan protocol to PS4 instead of PS5.

Could you please confirm if od1n uses the combination of xim + titan2 + beloader normally?
I tried to discuss the feasibility of the above combination with the beloader manufacturer
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Boltman on 12:17 PM - 12/08/21
If you're running xim apex + TT then I suggest you go the hardwired remote play route. Not sure if beloader can handle that.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Lukasz on 02:52 AM - 12/09/21
Speciality controllers dont work with the Beloader, you cannot connect those to your Titan Two or XIM. The Titan protocol has to be set to PS4 or Xbox to work with the Beloader.

Hey Sir, I have actually tried using PS5 controller with TT2 set to ps4, but still no luck.

Set USB Output Protocol to (USB Automatic PS4, XBOX....) make sure you have enough power for your XIM or TITAN2, because this was my Problem. Since I have an external Power source for my XIM or TITAN2, it works like a charme.

Well, it was worth the try, I had both the Apex and TT 2 powered by two different power supplies but still had no luck, tried it on all possible TT 2 output formats. I a beginning to think there may be something wrong with my TT2. The last thing to try is a different USB cable going from TT 2 to Beloader.

If you're running xim apex + TT then I suggest you go the hardwired remote play route. Not sure if beloader can handle that.

I had actually tried to connect just the TT 2 to the Beloader with no luck again, this time though I had no red light on the TT 2 output.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 05:32 AM - 12/09/21
That was one of the things i tried to test how many inputs per second the beloader can support. Titan + XIM worked for me, but only when settings the Titan protocol to PS4 instead of PS5.

Could you please confirm if od1n uses the combination of xim + titan2 + beloader normally?
I tried to discuss the feasibility of the above combination with the beloader manufacturer

Yes it tested that and it works :).
Titan prog port to PC for more electricity, output port to Beloader with XIM being plugged into the Titan. Protocol is set to PS4.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Bananabrian on 06:28 PM - 12/10/21
Can someone tell me what controllers you guys are usuing to get the beloader to work
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: thornlutz on 07:16 PM - 12/10/21
Can someone tell me what controllers you guys are usuing to get the beloader to work

Im using DS4 at the moment and it works.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Bananabrian on 08:55 PM - 12/10/21
Can someone tell me what controllers you guys are usuing to get the beloader to work

Im using DS4 at the moment and it works.
I cut seem to get mine to work
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: hope850610 on 02:40 AM - 12/13/21
That was one of the things i tried to test how many inputs per second the beloader can support. Titan + XIM worked for me, but only when settings the Titan protocol to PS4 instead of PS5.

Could you please confirm if od1n uses the combination of xim + titan2 + beloader normally?
I tried to discuss the feasibility of the above combination with the beloader manufacturer

Yes it tested that and it works :).
Titan prog port to PC for more electricity, output port to Beloader with XIM being plugged into the Titan. Protocol is set to PS4.
Thank you for your answer. :D
Exciting, my TT2 arrived today
Are there any restrictions on the controller used by ximapex?
I have a hori mini and ps5 controller

I know that the output protocol needs to be set to ps4
But currently tt2 + xim + beloader does not work
I'm troubleshooting the errors one by one
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Sorothos on 08:04 AM - 12/14/21
That is something to try, my Xim has an external power source but TT 2 does not, I will have try this one

so here's my review for the Beloader with Titan Two: It's super easy, plug and play and worked right away.

PS5 --> Beloader in the back --> connected with USB to "Output"-Port of Titan Two

In Port B of Titan Two nothing. In Port A:
XIM Apex (Slot1: Mouse, Slot2: Keyboard, Slot3: PS4 Controller v2)

All devices on newest beta firmwares/firmwares.

Output Protocol from Titan Two: Playstation 4


Titan Two also connected with USB and "Prog" Port to PC (for computer vision) You can skip this, if you don't use CV.


External Power Source is added to XIM Apex Hub.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Grampsoap on 11:01 PM - 12/14/21
So my beloader came yesterday .

I watched multiple YouTube videos on how to get it up and running it just wouldn't work. At each step of the installation i got the green tick and success but once i plugged in my beloader into any usb socket be that a powered one  front/ back ps5 console no luck. On the beloader i would get a blue flashing light  then a green flashing light then red light then no lights what i tried

1 watching and reading  all available info
2 putting both my belaoder and ps5 console on the same wifi channel
3 renaming my 2.4 wifi channel and changing password
4 manually adding my info into beloader not using the beloader manager software
5 tried powered usb adapter and all ps5 usb ports

What worked for me i had an old PSN account i didn't use so i tried that with the beloader  i couldn't remember  the password for the account so i reset the account password .

 I reset the password from the page what opens when you add your info into beloader manager

I logged into my ps5 console with that account made sure it was working  and then added that account information into beloaders pc software and bloader connected straight away .

I then reset the password on my  PSN account i use on my ps5 console  i had a 12 digit password i changed that to 10 digit password and once i had the new password setup on my ps5 console i added that new info into beloader and it connected no problem  :)

Not sure if it helps anyone but it worked for me
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Sonicspinner on 06:30 AM - 12/17/21
So my beloader came yesterday .

I watched multiple YouTube videos on how to get it up and running it just wouldn't work. At each step of the installation i got the green tick and success but once i plugged in my beloader into any usb socket be that a powered one  front/ back ps5 console no luck. On the beloader i would get a blue flashing light  then a green flashing light then red light then no lights what i tried

1 watching and reading  all available info
2 putting both my belaoder and ps5 console on the same wifi channel
3 renaming my 2.4 wifi channel and changing password
4 manually adding my info into beloader not using the beloader manager software
5 tried powered usb adapter and all ps5 usb ports

What worked for me i had an old PSN account i didn't use so i tried that with the beloader  i couldn't remember  the password for the account so i reset the account password .

 I reset the password from the page what opens when you add your info into beloader manager

I logged into my ps5 console with that account made sure it was working  and then added that account information into beloaders pc software and bloader connected straight away .

I then reset the password on my  PSN account i use on my ps5 console  i had a 12 digit password i changed that to 10 digit password and once i had the new password setup on my ps5 console i added that new info into beloader and it connected no problem  :)

Not sure if it helps anyone but it worked for me

valuable info! thanx

my beloader is still stuck at customs since december 3rd... due to millions of packages coming from china to  the country. lol
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Sorothos on 07:11 AM - 12/17/21
The Beloader is trash.

Why also buy a Beloader, I think to myself in retrospect.
It costs 50 €.

You can buy a network switch and two Lan cables for 40€.
Then just put a PC next to the Playstation, is the case with me anyway.

I just have to install one LAN cable from my router to the desk. There I have now installed a switch, LAN1 to the PC, LAN2 to the PS5.

Already you have the perfect wired setup to play via remote play with hardly any input lag. Everything is on the same network and wired, although I only had to run one cable from the router through the apartment. (Then split for remote play through the switch).

Cheaper, easier, better - 1000 Hz is possible, better connection.

The Beloader is for me now only a device if you are too lazy to connect your PS5 + PC to the same LAN network and then play via Remote Play. (Monitor of course set to the PS5)
But even for the Beloader, the PS5 is supposed to be connected via LAN. Why then buy a Beloader that acts via WIFI, instead of simply buying a switch that makes two from the one LAN cable, which must already be laid for the Beloader. Then you have your wired network and can do without the Beloader.



I was still so stupid and bought a Beloader - although I had concerns.

125 Hz, constant disconnects - the Beloader is a joke. DO NOT BUY!

Just buy two Lan cables and a switch, to setup a wired network between PC and PS5. It's even cheaper.
And it's the same technique used by Beloader, just better.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 09:35 AM - 12/17/21
A community memeber is producing a solution based on Raspberry Pi as well.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: willthetech on 10:08 AM - 12/17/21
The Beloader is trash.

Why also buy a Beloader, I think to myself in retrospect.
It costs 50 €.

You can buy a network switch and two Lan cables for 40€.
Then just put a PC next to the Playstation, is the case with me anyway.

I just have to install one LAN cable from my router to the desk. There I have now installed a switch, LAN1 to the PC, LAN2 to the PS5.

Already you have the perfect wired setup to play via remote play with hardly any input lag. Everything is on the same network and wired, although I only had to run one cable from the router through the apartment. (Then split for remote play through the switch).

Cheaper, easier, better - 1000 Hz is possible, better connection.

The Beloader is for me now only a device if you are too lazy to connect your PS5 + PC to the same LAN network and then play via Remote Play. (Monitor of course set to the PS5)
But even for the Beloader, the PS5 is supposed to be connected via LAN. Why then buy a Beloader that acts via WIFI, instead of simply buying a switch that makes two from the one LAN cable, which must already be laid for the Beloader. Then you have your wired network and can do without the Beloader.



I was still so stupid and bought a Beloader - although I had concerns.

125 Hz, constant disconnects - the Beloader is a joke. DO NOT BUY!

Just buy two Lan cables and a switch, to setup a wired network between PC and PS5. It's even cheaper.
And it's the same technique used by Beloader, just better.

Both solutions have their Pros and cons. I heard of a few people that no matter what they tried they were unable to get it to work with PC, so having an alternative was god blessing for some. I like you was going to buy one, even that I was able to play using my PC. But I waited and I was waiting for the dust to settle. So far the PC solution is working correctly, but I always have in the back of my mind there is some delay, but that's just paranoia :).

The scary part is that Sony can at anytime introduce a change to remote play and make all of these efforts obsolete. I know some people will argue this, but we will never know. Fingers crossed the never happens :)
 
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Sorothos on 12:08 PM - 12/17/21
A community memeber is producing a solution based on Raspberry Pi as well.

That sounds great, maybe a better alternative! I'll stick with Remote Play, via PC, Sony's Remote Play app and Wired Connection.

But willthetech is also right: So far, we have to rely on Sony's Remote Play service - if they wanted to, we would be back at point zero.

Hopefully there will be a bypass in the encryption to Dualsense at some point.

I like you was going to buy one, even that I was able to play using my PC. But I waited and I was waiting for the dust to settle. So far the PC solution is working correctly, but I always have in the back of my mind there is some delay, but that's just paranoia :).

It's about a millisecond delay from what I've read. The Beloader can only be slower because it uses WLAN + wired connection, while the Remote Play setup via PC uses wired connection only,

And you're also right: it's a luxury problem, I was lucky enough to get a Beloader - unfortunately it turned out to be nothing but disadvantages to my previous setup. If you can establish a wired connection and have a PC, I don't see any reason why remote play shouldn't work.

It's cheaper, has more stable performance, and supports the XIM at 1000 Hz as well. The Beloader can only do 125 Hz and sometimes has connection problems.

So my advice was to invest the money in a good LAN setup. If it should not work with remote play when the PC is nearby, should be an individual case.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: OBsIV on 12:53 PM - 12/17/21
if they wanted to, we would be back at point zero.

It would require them to essentially reduce the value of remote play to zero. I just don't see it happening.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: sofakng on 10:32 PM - 12/24/21
Can you guys explain how you are using wired remote play instead of the beloader?

I'm assuming you are running Remote Play on your PC but where does the XIM connect to apply the keyboard/mouse translations?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 12:28 AM - 12/25/21
Can you guys explain how you are using wired remote play instead of the beloader?

I'm assuming you are running Remote Play on your PC but where does the XIM connect to apply the keyboard/mouse translations?

You connect your XIM to the PC instead of the PS4/5. It requires a DualShock 4 version 2 controller though. All there is left to do then is to run remoteplay from the PC (which for the best connection is using an ethernet cable).
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Kostas on 01:29 AM - 12/25/21
Can you guys explain how you are using wired remote play instead of the beloader?

I'm assuming you are running Remote Play on your PC but where does the XIM connect to apply the keyboard/mouse translations?

You connect your XIM to the PC instead of the PS4/5. It requires a DualShock 4 version 2 controller though. All there is left to do then is to run remoteplay from the PC (which for the best connection is using an ethernet cable).

Im using ps5 controller tbh amd it works like a charm with remote play idk why everyone is saying ps4 controller second gen . And plus im playing with wifi and its sooooooooo good at least for me no lag nothing …
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: sofakng on 11:27 AM - 12/25/21
Thanks for the help ... I've purchased the Beloader but haven't used it yet.  I'm always sitting at my PC with my console TV next to me, so it makes more sense to just use the PC with Remote Play.

I'll keep the Beloader for a while I guess, but I might end up selling it.

Also, does this Remote Play method work with the Xbox Series consoles?

EDIT:  Do both (or the PS5) methods support 1000 Hz polling?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 01:37 AM - 12/26/21
For Xbox consoles you dont need remote play as the XIM works directly with the consoles. Sony Remote Play only works with PS consoles too.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: sofakng on 09:06 AM - 12/26/21
For Xbox consoles you dont need remote play as the XIM works directly with the consoles. Sony Remote Play only works with PS consoles too.
Can the XIM wirelessly output to the Xbox or does it need to be plugged into the console?

I keep my consoles in a different room and use some HDMI splitters/matrices to send the audio/video signal.
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: ZioComposite on 09:53 AM - 12/27/21
Needs to be plugged into xbox however you can use wireless peripherals =D 
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Kostas on 10:46 AM - 12/27/21
For Xbox consoles you dont need remote play as the XIM works directly with the consoles. Sony Remote Play only works with PS consoles too.

Odin how come ps5 comtroller is works on remote play is it something known ?
Title: Re: Did you get the sample?
Post by: Od1n on 07:51 AM - 12/31/21
For Xbox consoles you dont need remote play as the XIM works directly with the consoles. Sony Remote Play only works with PS consoles too.

Odin how come ps5 comtroller is works on remote play is it something known ?

Im not sure about that tbh, for some people the PS5 controller works through Remote Play but for other users it doesnt. Its probably a combination of using the latest XIM Firmware, PS5 controller firmware and Sony Remote Play firmware. Also there seem to be differences between Windows and Mac users.