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XIM APEX => XIM APEX Discussions => Topic started by: Bakbanaan on 03:03 PM - 08/29/21

Title: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: Bakbanaan on 03:03 PM - 08/29/21
Hi,

I was trying to play the COD: Vanguard Alpha, which didn't work, because of the devs requirement to play with a DualSense controller, which isn't supported. I also saw a dedicated topic on here.

Is it expected that more devs make using a DualSense controller a requirement, making using the Apex impossible? Is a workaround or full support from Xim's side still a possibility? I'm asking this because i might be on the look for a Series X, because it has full support.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: OBsIV on 08:59 PM - 08/29/21
I think this will continue to be the trend and I think it's coming from Sony. I assume they are requiring games (or at least incentivizing them) to only support DualSense. Sony is proud of it and want it to be a major differentiator rather than become a gimmick and this is how you do that. If solution is out there it isn't going to be found by us.
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: Kostas on 04:11 AM - 08/30/21
I think this will continue to be the trend and I think it's coming from Sony. I assume they are requiring games (or at least incentivizing them) to only support DualSense. Sony is proud of it and want it to be a major differentiator rather than become a gimmick and this is how you do that. If solution is out there it isn't going to be found by us.

Dear obsiv i saw yesterday thrustmaster release a new racing wheel for ps5 which it can be used also for ps4 do u think that it might be the solution to our problem ?
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: Od1n on 04:24 AM - 08/30/21
I think this will continue to be the trend and I think it's coming from Sony. I assume they are requiring games (or at least incentivizing them) to only support DualSense. Sony is proud of it and want it to be a major differentiator rather than become a gimmick and this is how you do that. If solution is out there it isn't going to be found by us.

Dear obsiv i saw yesterday thrustmaster release a new racing wheel for ps5 which it can be used also for ps4 do u think that it might be the solution to our problem ?

Please share a link to the product if possible, things like these can indeed be a solution :).
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: Od1n on 05:11 AM - 08/30/21
Interesting, it says licensed for PlayStation 5 and Gran Turismo which comes from a Sony owned game studio. The price is too high to be a solution but that doesnt mean the device could share some new information for the XIM Devs. Thanks for finding and sharing this! :)
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: Kostas on 05:31 AM - 08/30/21
Interesting, it says licensed for PlayStation 5 and Gran Turismo which comes from a Sony owned game studio. The price is too high to be a solution but that doesnt mean the device could share some new information for the XIM Devs. Thanks for finding and sharing this! :)


https://youtu.be/hlc_TL8IhXk


I know its an expensive device ngl but i was thinking maybe that deveice can give us the codes or smthing on my silly mind tgat actually can help us to play ps5 games with xim . Idk im just try to help as much i can also instead crying on xim
Devs 
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: Kostas on 06:34 AM - 08/30/21
He is playing PS4 version of the game... ;(
he does but the racing whell is for  ps5 games such as new grand turismo  etc what u expect to see him plsy new beta cod but this racing wheel if can be used on new cod it means that it can be solve our problem
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: Kostas on 06:38 AM - 08/30/21
yeah, i so...but i do not find any gameplay on utube with this wheel.
mb they just do not want to share it, that it works only with ps4 games...?
if u see at the begging its says ps5 amd ps4  the box
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: BenDover on 09:12 AM - 08/30/21
Then there is also this:

https://twitter.com/hackinside/status/1431365225434034178

https://twitter.com/psxdev/status/1431682593733423115
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: Se7eNpog on 02:13 PM - 08/31/21
I think this will continue to be the trend and I think it's coming from Sony. I assume they are requiring games (or at least incentivizing them) to only support DualSense. Sony is proud of it and want it to be a major differentiator rather than become a gimmick and this is how you do that. If solution is out there it isn't going to be found by us.

The time until ps5 was great. Your effort and support throughout the years were exceptional so thanks for that. Unfortunately with the release of PS5 and the lack of direct support via dualsense, you kinda dropped the ball now. Its more and more apparent that sony will require a Dualsense to play games. First it was Doom Eternal, now Cod Vanguard and maybe more I dont know about so the trend will definately be the requirement of the Dualsense from this point forward.
The solution that there is no solution is such a let down idk.. The answer cant be a simple "get the xbox". 
Sorry dont want to spread negativity here but I'm also not a yes man. With PS5 you dropped the ball big time and with saying that you wont find a solution to it is nothing but disappointing.
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: Cizque on 02:33 PM - 08/31/21
What do you want them to do? Magic up a fix for it to work on ps5? If they cannot not get it to work atm you either wait or get an xbox its as simple as that.
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: OBsIV on 02:53 PM - 08/31/21
you dropped the ball big time

I'm not really sure how we dropped the ball? Sony wants only one way to game on their console for differentiation -- the DualSense. So, they took steps to ensure that their customers cannot use anything else other than the controller they want them to use. Sony has always been focused on hardware. They added hardware to their controllers no one else had (for example, the touchpad) but no one used it. As a result, it's was reduced to a gimmick. They didn't want this to happen with their haptics innovation, so, they are forcing all PS5 owners to use it. Microsoft, on the other hand, is more focused on gaming everywhere. It's a business decision that Sony made.

You can still use Remote Play. If you have wired connections to your PS5 and PC, or have Wifi 6, then, it's likely a viable solution for you.
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: Herpityderp on 03:14 PM - 08/31/21
I love how your blaming the XIM dev team instead of Sony. Truly hilarious. Hey XIM devs! When the @#$% is that quantum computer going to be finished so I can decrypt every blockchain on earth. No excuses guys, don't drop the @#$% ball again
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: Od1n on 07:45 PM - 08/31/21
Instead of blaming Obsiv for something he has no control over we should all keep our eyes out for potential non-DualSense controllers that work with the upcoming PS5 games. Same goes for any news on officially licensed third party PS5 controllers, which also have the potential to solve the issue :).
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: Scrotesmd2 on 01:16 AM - 09/01/21
Yeah exactly xim team have no control over this. The team at console tuner won't find a fix for this also it's just Sony at fault here. I'm going to get a series x also alongside my ps5 once I can pick one up. I really like my ps5 but Sony have been way behind Microsoft in a lot of ways with the latest consoles. Almost a year after release no 1440p and VRR.
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: Sorothos on 02:29 AM - 09/01/21
If solution is out there it isn't going to be found by us.

Because you don't try and others do, or how should we understand this?

This sentence shows no motivation for me to solve the problem - either others try or it stays.

If I misunderstood you, I'm sorry, English is not my first language, but I don't know how else to interpret the subordinate clause.

They didn't want this to happen with their haptics innovation, so, they are forcing all PS5 owners to use it. Microsoft, on the other hand, is more focused on gaming everywhere. It's a business decision that Sony made.

You can still use Remote Play. If you have wired connections to your PS5 and PC, or have Wifi 6, then, it's likely a viable solution for you.

Remote play is unplayable, input was too high for FPS, then I can just use the controller and get better results.
But I understand, after Sony's "business decision", apparently there was a "business decision" here as well.

I love how your blaming the XIM dev team instead of Sony. Truly hilarious. Hey XIM devs! When the @#$% is that quantum computer going to be finished so I can decrypt every blockchain on earth. No excuses guys, don't drop the @#$% ball again

The problem is that other dev teams, such as ConsoleTuner, Cronus Zen, (Zen will never make it, they are just thieves, but I believe in Console Tuner) announce that they are actively addressing the problem.

Here you only hear: Use Remote Play. Buy an XBOX.

Not even the ATTEMPT or a READINESS is recognizable to want to solve the problem. With the other manufacturers it is different, at least the public communication to the customers in this respect.


I don't expect XIM to solve the problem - but here there is not even the willingness to solve the problem. This is how it is conveyed in numerous threads.
This bothers me a lot as a Playstation player, without wanting to attack the XIM or Obsiv personally or expecting that they can/must really solve the problem.

PS: Without ConsoleTuner, the XIM wouldn't even have a way to be used on PS5 with 3rd party devices UNTIL TODAY (10 months after PS5 release).
But even that could only be realized thanks to J2Kbr.

- Then why am I still here?

The Smart Translator from XIM are amazing, the Titan Two can't compete with them. Unfortunately, I am still dependent on the device. I'm starting to wish I wasn't anymore.

I've been a satisfied customer since 2014, but since the PS5 came out and now with the DualSense requirement: I no longer see the will to offer me a functioning product as a Playstation customer.
Of course Playstation is to blame - but what am I supposed to do with an XIM if there is no solution for it?

I know the rest don't have a solution either (at the moment!) - but the rest are trying. Are you trying too? If so, you have won me over as a customer. As I said, the only thing that bothers me at the moment is the fact that I can't feel it anymore.



The time until ps5 was great. Your effort and support throughout the years were exceptional so thanks for that. Unfortunately with the release of PS5 and the lack of direct support via dualsense, you kinda dropped the ball now. Its more and more apparent that sony will require a Dualsense to play games. First it was Doom Eternal, now Cod Vanguard and maybe more I dont know about so the trend will definately be the requirement of the Dualsense from this point forward.
The solution that there is no solution is such a let down idk.. The answer cant be a simple "get the xbox". 
Sorry dont want to spread negativity here but I'm also not a yes man. With PS5 you dropped the ball big time and with saying that you wont find a solution to it is nothing but disappointing.

Thanks for the post, apparently I'm not the only one who has this feeling.
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: antithesis on 05:16 AM - 09/01/21
With PS5 you dropped the ball big time

Because you don't try and others do, or how should we understand this?
This is way off the mark. XIM Tech has spent the better part of a year on this and have continued behind closed doors to find a solution that will work easily for everyone. They also tried to get XIM officially licensed for PS5 without success (Sony doesn't want competition for either their controller or their big-spending licensees like Hori).

XIM worked with ConsoleTuner to devise the PS4 controller workaround for both devices. XIM is also about to announce a new product. Do you really think they want to sell it to half of their customer base by ignoring the PS5? They're as desperate to find a solution as anyone, but there isn't another quick fix to be found. Don't be hasty to judge when you really don't have a clue how much effort has already been poured into the PS5 by OBsIV and his devs.

There is no solution to the DualSense problem because the communication protocol simply cannot be cracked or spoofed using current technology, according to the people who know far better than you or I. The encryption is too heavy and packets are timestamped. If someone figures out a solution (a third-party PS5 controller is the best bet) then I'm sure XIM will implement it in time. But paying for it on their own dime after a year of no return, with no viable options on the horizon, is flogging a dead horse. Sometimes you just need to cut your losses to move forward.

Titan Two is primarily a cross-platform controller adapter, so ConsoleTuner has a vested interest in finding a solution and will continue to sink time into PS5, despite it being a longshot. XIM APEX is a mouse & keyboard adapter, which is in much lower demand on next-gen consoles that finally offer broad native m/kb support. XIM's mission goal was simply to allow mouse & keyboard input for console games that lacked native support. Mission accomplished.

Most PS5 shooters moving forward will offer native m/kb, so why do you need a XIM to play those games? XIM isn't designed to work with aim assist, Smart Translators are created in an environment devoid of it. If your intent is solely to cheat by abusing aim assist with a XIM, you're not using it within the spirit of its design. Most current PS5 games still work with XIM, as do all last-gen PS4 games on PS5. Future games won't need it, hence the development of a new XIM product that has nothing to do with m/kb.

If you've spent any time on these forums you'd know that we were warning people away from PS5 before the next-gen consoles were released. If you couldn't see "DualShock 4 won't start PlayStation 5 games" as a giant red flag, then you'll need to deal with the consequences of your choice. Your choice, not XIM's. PS5 support was never guaranteed, nor was it officially offered via the PS4 controller workaround, hence no PS5 STs.

Series X does not have the same problems. We could see it a mile off based on Microsoft's announcement that "Series X and Xbox One controllers are forwards and backwards compatible". That's why I jumped ship to Xbox early and made it widely known that you should consider doing the same if you wanted to keep using a XIM.

Ultimately, this is out of every third-party device maker's hands, including things like Microsoft Adaptive Controller, Quad Stick, USB foot pedals & buttons, mice & keyboards etc, which are the only way some gamers can play PlayStation games via adapters like XIM. Sony's just spat on 15% of their own customers by forcing them to use a DualSense, whether they can hold one or not. Sony recognising this as a mistake may ultimately be our salvation, but their entire approach this time around is anti-consumer and pro-business, so don't hold your breath.

The only viable solutions at the moment are Remote Play or a modded controller, assuming either solution can be made to work for third-party device authentication. Both are under investigation. Both will add lag. Both are potentially complex workarounds that many people will struggle to use. Neither is guaranteed to work. Choose your poison wisely.

In the end, who cares which console you play a game on if you still get to play it with your favourite toys? Are you buried so deeply into Sony's ecosystem that you can't make an objective decision about which console is the best way to play a game? And do you really need a XIM in a game that has native m/kb?

Objectively, as a XIM gamer, you made the wrong choice by buying a PS5 to play next-gen shooters when all signs pointed to trouble ahead for XIM, Titan, Cronus, Brook, MayFlash etc. That, my friends, is on you for not doing your due diligence before slapping down your hard-earned on a next-gen console :shrug:

I will happily play PS4 games on my PS5 for years to come with a XIM. Same for PS5 exclusives, which I can still play using a XIM via Remote Play. But for cross-platform online shooters, Xbox is the way to go. Buying a Series X is the smart play, regardless of whether a DualSense workaround is found because it will add lag, and PS5 is the less performant of the two consoles.
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: MrBrutalFrosty on 11:20 AM - 09/01/21
Well said
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: AMG on 12:10 PM - 09/01/21
Well said
yep, big time.

antithesis said it best.  :)
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: facade on 03:02 PM - 09/01/21
If solution is out there it isn't going to be found by us.

This sentence shows no motivation for me to solve the problem - either others try or it stays.


I mean I see your account was created in 2015 so you're obviously not new but did you just ignore all the posts and info regarding this since PS5 was released?
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: Herpityderp on 06:13 AM - 09/02/21
I think your points just got 360 no scoped bro
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: Bakbanaan on 10:11 AM - 09/02/21
I think this will continue to be the trend and I think it's coming from Sony. I assume they are requiring games (or at least incentivizing them) to only support DualSense. Sony is proud of it and want it to be a major differentiator rather than become a gimmick and this is how you do that. If solution is out there it isn't going to be found by us.

Looks like i spurred quite a discussion, haha. First of all, thank you for your honest answer. I also wanted to thank you and everyone involved. I have a disability in my hands what makes it, in some occasions, easier to use a keyboard and mouse instead of the thumbsticks. The XIM gives me the flexibility i've never had and it works great so far (also, XIM Link is great).

I'll be on the look for a series X. I know you obviously can't look in the future, but since the Xbox has support with the first party controller, i suppose that there are no, or at least a lot less hiccups expected?

(I didn't know that the X stands for Xbox and that i was originally only meant for Xbox, you learn something every day)

Thanks!
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: Scrotesmd2 on 11:34 AM - 09/02/21
Yeah just get both , that's what I'm doing , both great consoles with their own merits.
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: dpk_ydv on 07:15 AM - 09/03/21
@antithesis Is it true that for cross platform games Xbox actually forces crossplay with PC?

 I heard on XBOX in COD multiplayer and warzone, you cant play online without enabling crossplay. And even if crossplay is disabled, you only deny playing with PS players and will still find PC players in your lobby.
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: Scrotesmd2 on 12:55 PM - 09/03/21
I'm pretty sure crossplay is on Xbox And can't be turned off
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: antithesis on 02:41 PM - 09/03/21
@antithesis Is it true that for cross platform games Xbox actually forces crossplay with PC?
Honestly, I donít know. The only personís performance I care about in the lobby is mine. If I want to play my best using the tools Iím most comfortable with, Iíll be doing it on Series X.
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: Thera6179 on 09:06 PM - 09/05/21
Scuf has teased a PS5 controller. Google it. There is light at the end of the tunnel. It should be coming before the end of the year.

https://www.psu.com/news/scuf-to-launch-ps5-and-xbox-series-x-controllers-later-this-summer/

Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: OBsIV on 10:00 PM - 09/05/21
Scuf's main business model is to modify existing 1st party hardware. Chances are high that it'll just be a standard DualSense on the inside.
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: antithesis on 10:12 PM - 09/05/21
Scuf's main business model is to modify existing 1st party hardware. Chances are high that it'll just be a standard DualSense on the inside.
^ This. It'll be a DualSense controller with cosmetic modifications and Scuf paddles on the rear. It won't be usable as an auth controller for controller adapters.

The giveaway that it'll be a standard Sony controller under the hood is their PS4 Scufs don't work for PS5 games. That means they're not specialty PS4 controllers, but rather bog-standard DualShocks.

Blink that light out for now. Other options will eventually present themselves.
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: Od1n on 10:29 AM - 09/07/21
So someone can test this device, https://shop.thrustmaster.com/en_ie/products-steering-wheels/t248.html
Will it work?)

Release 21st of October, no one can test it at the moment.
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: Se7eNpog on 01:40 PM - 09/08/21
you dropped the ball big time

I'm not really sure how we dropped the ball? Sony wants only one way to game on their console for differentiation -- the DualSense. So, they took steps to ensure that their customers cannot use anything else other than the controller they want them to use. Sony has always been focused on hardware. They added hardware to their controllers no one else had (for example, the touchpad) but no one used it. As a result, it's was reduced to a gimmick. They didn't want this to happen with their haptics innovation, so, they are forcing all PS5 owners to use it. Microsoft, on the other hand, is more focused on gaming everywhere. It's a business decision that Sony made.

You can still use Remote Play. If you have wired connections to your PS5 and PC, or have Wifi 6, then, it's likely a viable solution for you.

I really appreciate your posts guys and this wasnt me attacking anyone. For years Iíve been nothing but thankful for the ability to play with mouse and keyboard on console and you guys deserved all the praise you got.
But Iím also talking as a consumer who has no inside of developing or encrypting a controller. I mean fair play, you always mentioned that a PS5 solution was never safe but I was never going to miss out on a PS5 and their incredible games since I had the very first one and thats not me being a fanboy, because I love the Xbox and everything theyíre doing but getting solely an Xbox was never an option for me.
If an encryption cant be done, it cant be done but thats just me expressing my disappointment. Not on a personal level, just as a consumer. Sure, the blame is on Sony for their decision making but like the PS3 and PS4 era, the Xim device was a solution for playing with mouse and keyboard, but isnt anymore, at least not for PS5 users because the trend is in plain sight for everyone to see.

Native mnk will like you said more of an option with the games to come but every now and then you will probably have a Doom Eternal situation where all you can do is play with the dualsense. And thats where my disappointment kinda kicks in..
Sry for saying that you dropped the ball. Apparently Sony did. But now Iím just looking at a device who is simply not working for me anymore and will work even less in the months and years to come if a solution will not be found and thats basically all I was saying.
Everyone else can attack me as much as they want I really dont care <3
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: antithesis on 02:47 PM - 09/08/21
There are at least two viable solutions under development. Show some patience, there is good news on the horizon for PS5.
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: maasman on 07:03 AM - 09/10/21
There are at least two viable solutions under development. Show some patience, there is good news on the horizon for PS5.

Patience i have enough :). But can you tell something about that good news?
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: Thera6179 on 07:23 AM - 01/19/22
HORI just announced its first PS5 Controller. Maybe this one?

https://stores.horiusa.com/fighting-commander-octa-for-playstation-5/ (https://stores.horiusa.com/fighting-commander-octa-for-playstation-5/)
Title: Re: Future of Xim Apex on PS5
Post by: facade on 08:04 AM - 01/19/22
HORI just announced its first PS5 Controller. Maybe this one?

https://stores.horiusa.com/fighting-commander-octa-for-playstation-5/ (https://stores.horiusa.com/fighting-commander-octa-for-playstation-5/)

Hopefully but depends on if it's just yet another Dualsense in another shell or an actual 3rd party controller. However here is what Ob said about it:

From another topic referencing this new controller:

We are watching out for it, but realistically it's unlikely to help. We will check it out though.