XIM Community

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: roads on 08:51 AM - 09/10/19

Title: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: roads on 08:51 AM - 09/10/19
Model 0 makes 1000hz flawlessly up to 2000dpi. Maybe the only mouse that transmits at 1000hz steady which makes it a perfect mouse for the XIM. I would say by chance. The XIM needs more than 2000dpi so the mouse needs our Help. This works like Amnesty International. You mail a lot, they change the firmware. Ask Obsiv, he knows.

the feedback page is here.
https://www.pcgamingrace.com/pages/contact-us

Write something like this but never exactly this:


Please turn off smoothing for DPI over 2000dpi or let us turn it off by software please. The delay makes 1000hz completely useless.

Write also if you dont have the mouse, I dont have one (yet).
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: JustPeze on 08:59 AM - 09/10/19
You don't have 1 but you know it's flawless? Wouldn't this be the same for any mouse with the same sensor?
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: roads on 09:03 AM - 09/10/19
Od1n told me its flawless until 2000 concerning hz and I trust him a 100%, if he sais so it is. I think flawless concerning the sensor is something else as the hz stability. Most modern sensors are flawless to my understanding but how good the mouse communicates is a different story.
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: JustPeze on 09:10 AM - 09/10/19
I think I see where you're coming from. Id have to get one to try my self I'm a bit tired of playing with this brick in my hand.
Not sure I can post this but I've been scrolling through here for a lot of information
https://sensor.fyi/info/
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: idkwtf on 09:24 AM - 09/10/19
Yeah I was the one that informed od1n. It has a 3360 sensor which has been tested by professionaIs many times (even the modeI o specificaIIy) It has 32 frames of smoothing after 2000 DPI which resuIts in 5-6 ms of input Iag. That wouId be amazing if they couId impIement a way to deactive smoothing in the software. Not sure if it's possibIe but I'II send an emaiI about it too.
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: roads on 10:02 AM - 09/10/19
Quote
Not sure if it's possibIe but I'II send an emaiI about it too.

Great!
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: roads on 10:04 AM - 09/10/19
Would be quite the perfect mouse for the Xim, good size claw and palm, light as @#$%, high DPI and then this polling rate which is so important for the XIM.
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: OBsIV on 11:10 AM - 09/10/19
It may be just a hardware limitation. Higher DPI at higher poll rates means greater bandwidth requirements which would drive cost up.
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: roads on 11:32 AM - 09/10/19
That would be bad news, I hope you are wrong. As XIM is a niche there is also no room for argumentation to make a higher priced 12K 1000hz product. PC gamers simply don't need 1000hz at 12K.  I said it a lot in the past, a special XIM-tech mouse for a special product would not be a bad idea. Not a question you would be capable of making one. One that would for sure also make an impact in PC industry. There isn't a Ximmer who would not buy a specialised XIM mouse at XIM Apex price. What is the Xim Apex price anyway?

Imagine how much money I would have spared for a mouse search for the Xim that is somehow acceptable.
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: roads on 11:39 AM - 09/10/19
Apex is 99$. XIM mouse for 99$, please take my money and let the mouse search end for once.
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: AMG on 05:30 PM - 09/10/19
That sounds like a very daunting enterprise, create a mouse that fit all. The only goal of pushing a mouse in the market is quite expensive and difficult.

Smoothing is not stacking, is not that bad, that's a placebo stuff. Besides you are in a big input delay funnel (putting XIM a side, which is not that much) the very console limitation input lag hit you, more than smoothing does. And is not something they can disable via firmware is a hardware sensor limitation C Pate point that out once.

That's the thing with Pixart 33XX 12KDPI or above capable, all have some smoothing. 3360, 3389, only 3366 was clean (now obsolete), Go Hero sensor, that's the only smoothing free option in the market for 12K.

I said, move on... try another mouse if bothers you that much, I really doubt that 5ms delay can be human perceived on manipulation, and I worked with people with prosthetics. If you are hangover or have a bag headache your reflexes goes down... I you can feel it, but is about 800ms.

Anyway.

I'm glad on all these lightweight trend (Ventus was first hehehe I have to say it.) I'm waiting for Logitech response on this, I can see a lightweight about 60grs wireless Hero sensor baby in the making.
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: roads on 10:48 PM - 09/10/19
Quote
I'm glad on all these lightweight trend (Ventus was first hehehe I have to say it.) I'm waiting for Logitech response on this, I can see a lightweight about 60grs wireless Hero sensor baby in the making.

Thatís the point! You are waiting for something that will never gonna happen, the perfect mouse for the XIM. Not talking about shape and weight. They all go towards 70g and are more ore less clones anyway. The perfect one will simply never come as the PC gamer don't need it. We all spent thousands of $ for mice and we still try the next one that might be a bit better.

Placebo? No, for sure not. You play games with surgical precision, nah I don't even need that precision operating. Your subcon feels something is off and it adds, screen mouse, your age, your hangover. The less in the addition the better and every ms counts to have a native feel, to have control. There might be console lag but the moment you realise your TV is not in gaming mode and it shapes off 50ms of lag you feel more in control. The few milliseconds from XIX4 to Apex they can be felt, good players asked for it, thatís why the Apex exists, high sens players look for less jitter at fine aim, every pixel jump is recognised and is annoying, Mist has to retrain Translators when people feel they changed something, time based acceleration is gone, whatever. The fubar ST Obsiv threw out by error, amazing feel was just an acceleleration just did just 100% fit the game by accident and cut through autoaim like non existent. STs are being optimised more and more by special settings to feel better.
Smoothing and Sensors on the market, I don't know about that. Normally a sensor is just a sensor and then comes a hardware and software that smooths or not. The Glorious 0 is quite proof of a stable hz up to 2000dpi, thatís not the sensor, thatís hardware around it.
The XIM just asks for a XIM mouse as they will never ever make it for PC. The other way round PC people would buy a XIM mouse with its extreme stable specs even if they don't need it, they buy 12000dpi already over 2000dpi.
Mouse that fit all? Not that hard. Make it 70g, 12k DPI, stable 1000hz up to 12K, take the clone shape all are using, make 2 versions in size small and big and one that is short and wide for high sens claw grip like the Logitech G9 was. Maybe wireless later. Obs can sell the wired mouse for 99$ easily and lower production cost by preorders. Advertise it with "The Mouse search is over".
I simply have to ask the question why we have the Apex at 1ms delay if there is no @#$% mouse supporting it and everyone should ask himself how many mice he bought for the XIM. I bought 20 at least since I have a XIM thatís about 1500$ so yeah I dont care what Obsiv price tags his XIM-mouse. It's overdue for a long time but with the Apex it's almost "where is that XIM mouse? Cant find it on the page, must be one there is no mouse that fits the Apex on the market".
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: roads on 11:09 PM - 09/10/19
On second thought the mouse could start like the XIM. Just the hardware on USB cable no expensive at first China molds to produce the plastic. The hull could be 3D printed by Obs or us users out there. Look at the Azeron, beats all left hand input devices out there. W11ce built a mouse from sensor and Teensy some years ago, wasnít worse than other mice back then. Problem is to acquire the sensor. They sell large quantities only to my knowledge. Could be "solder yourself" at first. Would love that actually as it would shorten the wait time for the final product that is over a year.
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: Brutalimp on 12:20 AM - 09/11/19
I just want a G502 that is less than 60 grams.... a man can dream...
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: roads on 01:25 AM - 09/11/19
ya and so it is with just every other mouse, lighter, more stable, higher dpi. I say it again only Obs can make the perfect XIM mouse that will please 90% of the ximmers. wasn't that bad before Apex but now its necessary imho.
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: idkwtf on 01:42 AM - 09/11/19
It's not pIacebo for me. I can feeI 6ms of deIay. Od1n said he couId feeI the difference too. 125hz is 8ms, can you feeI a difference between that and 1000hz? I'm sure there's peopIe that may not notice though. I had a feeIing the smoothing might not be changeabIe via software. Sucks.
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: roads on 10:51 PM - 09/11/19
https://video.ultra-zone.net/watch?v=SPWwpB9jFa0&list=PLujBdUKDGoKD7IPxwHouQanQQhZM2cvMx

DPI and mouse rate, the two most important. Apex needs a Apex mouse. Apex mouse from mousemakers is not gonna happen. Why should it?

Looking forward to test the Glorious at 2000dpi 1000hz. Should be the most exact non lag setup for now.
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: AMG on 11:50 PM - 09/11/19
It's not pIacebo for me. I can feeI 6ms of deIay. Od1n said he couId feeI the difference too. 125hz is 8ms, can you feeI a difference between that and 1000hz? I'm sure there's peopIe that may not notice though. I had a feeIing the smoothing might not be changeabIe via software. Sucks.
If you run a ABX test on a native mouse input on 125Hz vs 1000Hz to feel the precision, I'm sure you can't tell the difference.

But you guys are irrational, acting "by feelings", not facts I don't care to change your mind on it. And the fact that you are not understanding than even engineers who make the sensors said that is a hardware limitation, and a compromise is so small noticeable, and this FOR PC native input... not for a additional input funnel which is the mouse translation.

If you "can feel" something is slower by 5ms is just crazy, you should have super powers, is like saying that you can hear below 20Hz or above 20KHz.

OK, good luck with it.

Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: roads on 03:49 AM - 09/12/19
Lag ads up. Add 8ms from 125hz or 2ms at 500hz and 8ms from smoothing at high DPI and you have a 10 or 16ms that even I can feel. We need  a mouse that can run high dpi without smoothing and with a stable 1000hz polling or the 1000hz of the Apex are useless. best settings atm is 500hz with a stable mouse and 2000dpi mostly. Glorious O is the exception 1ms lag at 1000hz 2000dpi. Still quite a poor performance input to a XIM that can take much more. We simply need a better mouse than those on the market to run 1ms lag at high dpi which the XIM needs.
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: Od1n on 06:11 AM - 09/12/19
let me know how you like the experience with the glorious roads, 2000 dpi is rather low but with sync default or higher its very playable imo.
in regards to your 99$ mouse, imo weight has become the driving factor atm and people pay any price to get a mouse with less weight. the new final mouse costs something close to 150$ and people pay that just for the weight. So if that 99$ mouse has a competitive weight then people will buy it just for the weight and the other specs are basically just a bonus (at least for the PC crowd).
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: Slow-Scoper on 09:05 AM - 09/12/19
Based on what you are looking for, the G Pro Wireless seems like the closest match.. High DPI, consistent 1000 hz  polling rate (based on my testing and some others; there have been other reports though) and no smoothing. And I personally think the design is perfect but that is up for debate I guess.
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: idkwtf on 09:55 AM - 09/12/19
It's not pIacebo for me. I can feeI 6ms of deIay. Od1n said he couId feeI the difference too. 125hz is 8ms, can you feeI a difference between that and 1000hz? I'm sure there's peopIe that may not notice though. I had a feeIing the smoothing might not be changeabIe via software. Sucks.
If you run a ABX test on a native mouse input on 125Hz vs 1000Hz to feel the precision, I'm sure you can't tell the difference.

But you guys are irrational, acting "by feelings", not facts I don't care to change your mind on it. And the fact that you are not understanding than even engineers who make the sensors said that is a hardware limitation, and a compromise is so small noticeable, and this FOR PC native input... not for a additional input funnel which is the mouse translation.

If you "can feel" something is slower by 5ms is just crazy, you should have super powers, is like saying that you can hear below 20Hz or above 20KHz.

OK, good luck with it.
It's Iike you're saying that I am Iess IikeIy to notice a difference in deIay on native whiIe aIso saying it's Iess IikeIy to notice the difference on xim.

I'm not crazy or irritationaI just because I can feeI a deIay. Yes, feeI. Not sure why you're quoting the word feeI as if it isn't a vaIid way to perceive. Am I suppose to smeII it? Taste it? Hear it? See is obviousIy part if it since staring at a screen IoI.

If you don't notice any difference that doesn't mean that no one eIse possibIy can. I even said that I'm sure that there's peopIe that do not notice. It's not Iike I'm spreading misinformation. I said it has 32 frames of smoothing and 5-6 ms of input Iag which is a fact.

Sometimes smaII ms of deIay can make a difference. In games without kiII trading the person that's 5ms behind in a shot trade wiII be the one that dies.  There's instances where it can make a difference.
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: roads on 03:51 AM - 09/13/19
Based on what you are looking for, the G Pro Wireless seems like the closest match.. High DPI, consistent 1000 hz  polling rate (based on my testing and some others; there have been other reports though) and no smoothing. And I personally think the design is perfect but that is up for debate I guess.

I have the G pro Wireless, its far from stable 1000hz. Stable means equal or higher. The DPI is smoothed I think. Would have to check Overclockers but the mouse if off the tabel due to the unstable mouse rate anyway.
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: roads on 03:53 AM - 09/13/19
PLEASE MAIL THEM!
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: roads on 03:59 AM - 09/13/19
@Od1n yeah I have my mice now on 2000 dpi to avoid smoothing on standard at 120 sens and its fine. Sync does not add lag? I mean every sync needs a cycle, no? Glory comes Monday.
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: roads on 04:41 AM - 09/13/19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s64M5hnSMjE

look from 2:14

This is why smoothing sucks and 1000hz usage with smoothing is just stupid. Problem is you yo not know if there is smoothing or not without pro measuring hardware.
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: roads on 04:47 AM - 09/13/19
Guy also says 3366 sensor has no smoothing, glorious has 3360 sensor.
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: roads on 04:54 AM - 09/13/19
And here is how you get lagged smoothly by the sensors.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MouseReview/comments/5haxn4/sensor_smoothing/
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: sncjez on 12:57 PM - 09/15/19
What debounce delay number are you fellow ximmers using in the model 0 or g wolves software, i'm noticing a difference with console over pc when it comes to semi/burst fire weapons.

Model 0 recommends 4 whilst i have the G wolves Skoll and recommends 10 in the software right now i'm using 8 seems better but now and again gets in drunk state with burst firing on ps4 compared to pc ( and yes i know FR difference ) between the two platforms and not particulary keen to go any higher

This is actually a very handy addition in software and needs a little more scrutinising, i am definitely noticing double clicking burst weapons during a gun fight whilst playing the MW beta over the weekend.

Curious if anyone has noticed this and changed delay number in software.

Edit.. wrong thread but still related  :)
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: slickrick on 01:23 PM - 09/17/19
I no this statement is going to cause a ruckus, but here it go's.  you guys know the sensor on the g model o has more input lag than the Gpro when its wireless. lol  dont believe me look it up on YouTube, theirs a channel called Linus tech tips . Linus hears Logitech claiming there wireless mice are faster than the top gaming mice thats wired. so he hires some help [ not bro science] so he puts it to the test.I dont rember what dpi they  testing but the Gpro wireless sensor had a 2 ms. faster response time than the closest top gaming mouse that was wired. its pretty interesting.  you guys should check it out. lol 
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: Od1n on 08:31 PM - 09/17/19
I no this statement is going to cause a ruckus, but here it go's.  you guys know the sensor on the g model o has more input lag than the Gpro when its wireless. lol  dont believe me look it up on YouTube, theirs a channel called Linus tech tips . Linus hears Logitech claiming there wireless mice are faster than the top gaming mice thats wired. so he hires some help [ not bro science] so he puts it to the test.I dont rember what dpi they  testing but the Gpro wireless sensor had a 2 ms. faster response time than the closest top gaming mouse that was wired. its pretty interesting.  you guys should check it out. lol 

thanks for the recommendation i definitely will! :)
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: slickrick on 04:36 AM - 09/18/19
I no this statement is going to cause a ruckus, but here it go's.  you guys know the sensor on the g model o has more input lag than the Gpro when its wireless. lol  dont believe me look it up on YouTube, theirs a channel called Linus tech tips . Linus hears Logitech claiming there wireless mice are faster than the top gaming mice thats wired. so he hires some help [ not bro science] so he puts it to the test.I dont rember what dpi they  testing but the Gpro wireless sensor had a 2 ms. faster response time than the closest top gaming mouse that was wired. its pretty interesting.  you guys should check it out. lol 

thanks for the recommendation i definitely will! :)
  thanks Oldin, I just think personally that here in 2019 when we have the best gaming mice we have ever had , theirs an over emphasis on the gaming equipment , mice in general, I watch some of your vids. from years ago when people with the older products [ xim edge,older gaming mice] was dropping nukes and tearing sh!& up . excuse my french. another thing you dont see is the guys using the Apex right now making youtude video's  tearing it up complaing about there gaming mouse. most of them has a mouse they love and swear by.
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: AMG on 10:00 AM - 09/18/19
I no this statement is going to cause a ruckus, but here it go's.  you guys know the sensor on the g model o has more input lag than the Gpro when its wireless. lol  dont believe me look it up on YouTube, theirs a channel called Linus tech tips . Linus hears Logitech claiming there wireless mice are faster than the top gaming mice thats wired. so he hires some help [ not bro science] so he puts it to the test.I dont rember what dpi they  testing but the Gpro wireless sensor had a 2 ms. faster response time than the closest top gaming mouse that was wired. its pretty interesting.  you guys should check it out. lol 
thanks for the recommendation i definitely will! :)
Linus Tech only replay a test at OC.net did it and point it MONTHS ago when the first Hero sensor was released. I telling you, if you want to go to the mice experts source, down to the rabbit hole go to OC.net.

They are waaay ahead of the curve, on what you can see on YT, either Linus or RJN and they are truly unbiased.
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: slickrick on 04:57 AM - 09/19/19
I no this statement is going to cause a ruckus, but here it go's.  you guys know the sensor on the g model o has more input lag than the Gpro when its wireless. lol  dont believe me look it up on YouTube, theirs a channel called Linus tech tips . Linus hears Logitech claiming there wireless mice are faster than the top gaming mice thats wired. so he hires some help [ not bro science] so he puts it to the test.I dont rember what dpi they  testing but the Gpro wireless sensor had a 2 ms. faster response time than the closest top gaming mouse that was wired. its pretty interesting.  you guys should check it out. lol 
thanks for the recommendation i definitely will! :)
Linus Tech only replay a test at OC.net did it and point it MONTHS ago when the first Hero sensor was released. I telling you, if you want to go to the mice experts source, down to the rabbit hole go to OC.net.

They are waaay ahead of the curve, on what you can see on YT, either Linus or RJN and they are truly unbiased.
sounds good, tks. Ill check it out
Title: Re: Community mobilisation for Glorious Model 0 mouse!
Post by: AMG on 11:27 AM - 09/19/19
OC.net was the place where this lightweight, small, nimble, perforated, paracorded gaming mouse trend started. Main mouse makers has community representatives on that forum, finalmouse was the first to notice this, after seeing how many users were modding their mice, so they bring a product ready to use, overpriced though, fortunatelly now it got momentum :) and we have more and quality options.