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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Santigold on 11:28 AM - 11/29/18

Title: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: Santigold on 11:28 AM - 11/29/18
I bought Xbox X last year, after a few weeks I actually sold it, because I wasnt really playing any game on it. But Ive noticed it last year already (and posted about it here) that it has some noticable input lag, even with only the controller connected via USB cable directly to Xbox X.

Well this black friday it was so cheap that I bought it again for whatever reason. The BFV goldrush bundle special edition.

Now- last year Ive noticed an annoying input lag in COD WW2 on Xbox X compared to PS4 pro. This year I bought BO4 for both plattforms and wanted to compare graphics, server connections on both systems etc. And once again I notice a significant input lag on Xbox X.

I tested both with same cables, same monitor same everything and I can tell the input lag difference clearly, even with controllers connected via USB to the consoles, leaving the xim out of the equation.

Heres another thing- i have the xim4 which runs at 125 Hz and xim Apex set to 1000 Hz. On PS4 Pro, there is no noticable input lag whatsoever and i actually PREFER to play with the xim4 at 125 Hz vs 1kHz Xim Apex. On Xbox X, xim4 feels almost like rubberbanding. You can significantly improve the input delay on Xbox X, by using xim Apex @ 1000 Hz, basically brute force the console to communicate at 1000 Hz. But it doesnt solve the input lag completely. After playing with xim Apex @ 1000 hz and then going back to xim4 at 125 Hz again is feels very floaty and rubberband-ish in terms of input lag. You can feel it instantly.

On PS4 Pro as mentioned before- both work good XIM Apex @ 1000 Hz and xim4 @ 125 Hz, I actually prefer the xim4 on the PS4 Pro it works better for me personally.

Now some of you will start saying "oh no, I dont feel any input lag on my Xbox X... etc." yes, homeboy, thats because you dont have a super fast TN monitor and arent as susceptible to these levels of input lag as some others, who are FPS veterans.

I tried different combinations on Xbox X too- with "Freesync" enabled and "Freesync" disabled. To be honest with you, I will give you a pro tip- dont use Freesync on Xbox X. It makes the input lag even worse. Especially dont activate Freesync in games that manage to run at 60fps like 90+% of the time. Another game I tried on Xbox X is Wolfenstein. Yuu can switch in that game between dynamic resolution, that tries to hit the 60fps target, then u can select "aggressive dynamic resolution" that tries to hit the 60fps target even more consistently but reducing the dynamic resolution further down and then you can select a mode without dynamic resolution. And again, the input lag in Wolfenstein is huge, even slightly worse than in BO4. It gets even worse in Wolfenstein if you enable Freesync on your monitor in that game and select the graphics mode without dynamic resolution. It is straight rubberbanding and floatyness.

Heres why I think there is such a noticeable ammount of input lag on the Xbox X. I think the way how the video drivers work on xbox are causing it. Or it is something in how their UI rendering system is working, most likely forcing "Vertical Sync ON" by default on absolutely everything- on every game and on their User Interface and so on.

I have also noticed a big input delay in backwards compatible titles and have seen others talk about it. We know that microsoft forces Vsync ON in the back compat titles. But thats not the only input lag. There is some base input lag in all applications and games. I played RDR1 back compat game and the input lag was unbearable to be perfectly honest with you.

With how many features Microsoft introduced (most of which are mostly gimmicks and are actually worse than having them turned off- best example Freesync), it is easy to mess up something in the process. Which is exactly what we have on Xbox right now. There is some noticable base input lag, present in every single game that Ive tested. I prefer the PS4 approuch more to be absolutely honest. They have fewer options, but they work 100% as intended and nothing is messed up in the process of implementing 48 settings to chose from.

I really really hope that the PS5 has the same graphics drivers as the ps4, without any input lag. Because all those improved graphics on Xbox X are worthless to me, if the base input lag is so noticable and annoying as it is on Xbox One X.

Bottom line of the TL-DR: if you only own an Xbox and have a xim4, make yourself a favour and upgrade to the XIM Apex @ 1000 Hz, because it is a huge improvement in terms of input lag over the xim4 @ 125 Hz. You can very effectively compensate the annoying base input lag on Xbox X with an Apex, but it doesnt solve the issue completely. On the ps4(pro) on the other had- both xim4 and xim Apex work equally great, I even prefer the xim4 over apex on my pro.

Second bottom line is that having dozens of extra options doesnt really benefit anyone, if the overall picture gets worse because of it. It was like Microsoft was thinking: "lets throw everything and the kitchen sink at the wall and see what sticks" in order to create buzz on gaming news sites and social media.

They added Freesync support and it only properly works on few select monitors/tvs. It does get rid of tearing, but introduces significant -additional- input lag. They add KB/M support- which only works with 1-2 KB/M devices so far and will have separate matchmaking to keep KBM users away from Controller users, which reduces the player pool to be matched against even further and will have a big impact on connection quality. And with that big base input lag built into their graphics drivers/operating system, it will only cripple the KBM users and basically make it pointless using a KBM in the first place with this annoying input lag.

Whats the point of all that, it is like MS is trying to stay in headlines of gaming news sites and social media by bending backwards. And then those things either arent even worth using or at max. 0.2% of the playerbase will ever consider using those options like 120 Hz support, Freesync etc.

And that 120 Hz thing is another nonsense- with 60fps games, you will have constant stuttering. Barely visible/noticeable, but it will be there, ask on Blurbusters forums if you dont believe.

Having said that, I will add pictures to show you that I actually do own those devices and have extensively tested both. However, I will sell the Xbox X again, as I cant stand the base input lag it has everywhere with a passion and theres nothing I want to actually play on it. To be honest it was a questionable impulse purchase to begin with, but I knew I can sell it again without loss, so I though I wanna see the progress they made in 1 year with it, hoping it will be any useful. Which I found to be very disappointing. All those options are snake oil at best. They either dont make alot of sense in particular on consoles, or they have annoying trade-offs like adding extra input lag and so on. Really not actually worth using at the end of the day.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: Santigold on 11:57 AM - 11/29/18
Here you go ladies and gets, PS4 Pro CUH-7216B version, significant improvement in fan noise over 7000 and 7100 Pro versions. And also Xbox X Battlefield 5 Goldrush edition. It is a nice looking machine, well built and has great hardware inside. However the software side of things is unfortunately disappointing to say the least. That is the reason why I will ultimately sell it.

And if the next Xbox will sport the same annoying input lag in its Operating System- Im not buying that either.

https://imgur.com/a/JSAUxdE

(https://i.imgur.com/rUPdpZy.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/6vF0vmX.jpg)
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: Retrospect on 06:33 PM - 11/29/18
I actually like the direction Microsoft has been heading as of late. If they can get more 1st party exclusive titles (which they are actively working towards with studio acquisitions) I think they have a good shot of regaining a strong foothold next gen. They seem to be learning from their mistakes from the past. I personally feel the xb1 launch was a disaster and regretted buying one. I have been out of gaming on console for a little over 4 years but couldn't resist 100$ off black Friday deal and just picked up a xim to go with it. I can't comment on the input lag as of right now, but I'll definitely be watchful for it while gaming.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: Phil Ashio on 07:18 PM - 11/29/18
Something on your end or possibly the way your display interacts with Xbox because generally games on Xbox have less input lag. While I didn't test the same wires I did test them using the wires that came with the systems and I tested them on the same monitor switching between HDMI and HDMI 2 while both systems were running. I even switched which console is connected into which HDMI channel just in case. Not only was the improved response instantly felt going from a PS4 Pro to an X1X but the smoothness to micro movements as well. The only time there was an issue with input lag was playing 360 games on X1X compared to the 360 but it seems like that's been improved with recent firmware updates. Also, and I don't know which games and modes you tested, don't forget that network lag can effect input response.

Try going into the video settings and instead of having the Xbox automatically detect your display input and resolution, do it manually. I know that the manual setting effects color so maybe it effects input response as well.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: matthewtas on 08:37 PM - 11/29/18
Does the original xbox one have this unput lag?
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: RML on 08:56 PM - 11/29/18
Funny thing is, for some reason I actually thought Phil started this thread. So for a few mins there I was actually scratching my head and trying to figure out wth you weíre talking about.

Then it hit me, it isnít Phil.. itís Souver. Then it all made sense.

As Phil stated above, the only issues are with backward compatible multiplayer games, and even thatís not too bad considering. The bigger issue is probably just the lobby makeup as the player base is small.

My only complaint about XXX isnít even the XXX fault. Itís Live! The skill level on live is just crazy sometimes. You have a few noobs but mostly solid players. I think the Elite controller and XIM have a lot to do with this. But man, Itís like 1/2 of every team is at comp level sometimes. I mean they just dont miss and itís often who shoots first.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: tepidblack on 05:17 AM - 11/30/18
Another day, another weird, rambling post with a distinct lack of objective proof on the XIM forums
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: Phil Ashio on 08:32 PM - 11/30/18
Funny thing is, for some reason I actually thought Phil started this thread. So for a few mins there I was actually scratching my head and trying to figure out wth you weíre talking about.

Then it hit me, it isnít Phil.. itís Souver. Then it all made sense.

As Phil stated above, the only issues are with backward compatible multiplayer games, and even thatís not too bad considering. The bigger issue is probably just the lobby makeup as the player base is small.

My only complaint about XXX isnít even the XXX fault. Itís Live! The skill level on live is just crazy sometimes. You have a few noobs but mostly solid players. I think the Elite controller and XIM have a lot to do with this. But man, Itís like 1/2 of every team is at comp level sometimes. I mean they just dont miss and itís often who shoots first.

I would have thought the MP player base on X1X is small but I was surprised to find that some games actually seem to have a healthier player base than on PS4. For example, BF Hardline seemed dead last time I played it on PS4 while last week there were plenty of full servers even at night on Xbox. I'm sure the numbers are out there to prove my hypothesis wrong but I think most of the people getting Xbox are shooter fans while PS4 has a more varied player base. So even though PS4 might have a larger user base that doesn't necessarily mean it has a larger MP shooter fan base.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: RML on 08:40 PM - 11/30/18
Interesting, I think a lot of people also prefer the Xbox controller for shooters. Kinda makes sense.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: roads on 10:21 PM - 11/30/18
Another day, another weird, rambling post with a distinct lack of objective proof on the XIM forums

Well same I could say about you, like another day a XIM noob not knowing about whom he is talking about. For your information Souvers (Santigolds) "feel" has always been trusted as that feel made changes to the XIM. I think he was one of the guys who pressed to get 1ms delay on the Xim over the last 10 years.  He is a very very good player also and be sure if the console has lag, it will will throw his game off. So this thread is valid.

Would be nice if you could test versus an xbox one s and original Xbox.

Obsiv and Mist have you found a lag on the new Xboxes when making Smart Translators?

Here is another guy stating the X has lag:
https://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/83ir2f/xbox_one_x_input_lag/
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: roads on 11:32 PM - 11/30/18
Various reports on the net. Some say its not happening with V-sync off on Monitor so should not happen on TV? They dont have V-sync do they?
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: Santigold on 05:04 AM - 12/01/18
Hey roads, nice to see you around again.

Thanks for taking your time and chiming in to educate some of the newer members who arent very well informed about forum members here, which I dont really blame them for, due to beeing a new member around here. But then again, they should also comment with some reservation because of the same very reason that theyre new around here.

Also thank you for providing the link to the reddit post Roads. After reading it, I have absolutely zero doubt left that there is some annoying input lag at the very least on Xbox X.

Heres a quote from that guys reddit post:

Quote
Edit: I've been searching the reddit and it seems like there are a few other people that have noticed similar issues. Strangely most of them seem to have started around 100 days ago. None of the threads have any sort of resolution. Just seems to be strange input lag out of nowhere with no explanation. I've tried another controller and its still really bad. 100% gets in the way of aiming at a competitive level. Guess I'll be returning it.

Edit #2: Some of what I'm experiencing could be related to the systemwide implementation of Vsync that the X uses. Using free sync might actually help a lot if you have a monitor that supports it. Guess I might hold onto mine until the update.

He basically draws the same conclusion as I have and its not my accout on reddit or anything like that.

Again- I have noticed it last year in November already, when I purchased my first Xbox X and I made a post on these forums too about it. If someone bothers to go through all the posts, you will certainly find it.

Now that I bought my 2nd Xbox X, hoping that theyve improved the OS and maybe got rid of the input lag, I was disappointed to find out that it is still not gone. Because of that I will sell the Xbox X again for the 2nd time.

And this assumption by the Reddit guy is incorrect:

Quote
Using free sync might actually help a lot if you have a monitor that supports it. Guess I might hold onto mine until the update.

I own a freesync monitor and it doesnt help. It even makes things worse, adds some additional input lag on top of the base input lag.

Anyways- my adventures with Xbox are done and I will be very very cautios and reserved in terms of buying the next Generation Xbox console. I would have to test it somewhere if they have fixed the input lag, before even considering buying it.

I dont think the tools that Mist or Obsiv use are good at figuring out input lag. It is most likely a camera that measures the position of the crosshair on a monitor at different mouse input speeds and then they try to compensate for positive/negative acceleration using an algorithm and measuring it via camera on the screen to match the starting point and the end point as closely as possible. So basically the tools they use arent very useful for measuring button-to-pixel delay times.

Again thank you for providin the reddit example roads, the reddit guy said he comes from a 144hz pc monitor background and is a rather competitive player, I have absolutely zero doubts now about the input lag on the X, not that I had many doubts to begin with, since I have never been wrong with such things in the past. But it kinda is satisfactory to see confirmation from other ppl on the same matter.

Heres just another random example from Sept. 2018:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EHUaYyZ-_w

The guy moves the analogue sticks on 2 controllers at the very same exact time. And you can see that the Xbox first of all has a noticable delay before the camera starts moving but then also when he stops moving the analogue sticks, the camera rotation on the PC stops INSTANTLY, while on the xbox it takes a few more frames before the camera rotation stops moving.. That is 100% what Ive noticed too.

Heres another thread about BO3 and Xbox with input lag:
https://blog.activision.com/t5/Black-Ops-3-General-Discussion/Xbox-one-Controller-Lag/td-p/9929892

Another user in that thread commented:

Quote
I've been having the exact same problem! I've tried almost everything to try and fix it but NOTHING WORKS. I've did the same thing as you by restarting my Xbox, but it only works for a game or two. I've even uninstalled the game and reinstalled it. I'm sure it's not my controller because I've tried three different controllers (all had same issue), it's not input lag because I have a BenQ gaming monitor with everything set up correctly, and it's not Bluetooth or other types of interference because I have tried wired.

Ppl who dont notice any lag are just not sensitive enough to these kind of small discrepancies.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: roads on 05:15 AM - 12/01/18
There has to be a solution to this. Xbox is better for Xim in many other ways. I read over and over "Xbox this better" "PS4 worse in that" in Obsivs Posts.

THERE IS NO P IN XIM!
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: Santigold on 05:40 AM - 12/01/18
Most of the complaints I found after a short google search seem to be from competitive / pc enthusiastic / hardcore users. And those are indeed the ones who can confidently notice a difference.

If a casual complains about input lag, the answer in most cases will be his TV with insane input lag. When hardcore players complain, it deserves more attention and should be investigated.

To be honest, I dont care what brand a console is, I care a bout the best experience, hence I wanted to try the Xbox X for the 2nd time and compare graphics to PS4 pro and so on. The graphical difference is rather small, but the input lag is a big downside for me.

I have owned 3 old ps4s (upgraded whenever a new hardware revision came out) and 2 PS4 Pros. And not 1 single time I had input lag issues with any of those devices. My brother owns a ps4 too and it also doesnt have any input lag, so that is a sample size of 6 ps4 that I have which all had zero input lag vs 2 xbox X consoles that I owned and had input lag with both.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: roads on 05:47 AM - 12/01/18
So you mean this inputlag the Xbox makes, does it add to the screen lag or is it just over the screen lag. Meaning if Screen has 30ms lag and xbox produces 40ms overall lag will be 40ms?
How much lag are we talking about here? 50? 100? 200? Whats your Estimate Santi?
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: roads on 07:57 AM - 12/01/18
Mayday Mayday Obsiv can you confirm, I repeat, can youuuu confirm?
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: Ripkon on 10:28 AM - 12/01/18
I have 2 Xbox one X's one on a 4k Monitor and the other on a Q7 Qled Samsung and i have never had input lag.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: RML on 10:38 AM - 12/01/18
I have 2 Xbox one X's one on a 4k Monitor and the other on a Q7 Qled Samsung and i have never had input lag.

Same I've never experienced this either, at least nothing that I could easily point a stick at. Makes me wonder if it's setup related somehow. I do agree that the system menus can be leggy at times. That got so bad they've implemented a quick refresh option.

I do clear my cache often though. Mostly because I play Skyrim still.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: Retrospect on 11:04 AM - 12/01/18
If there is input lag I would have to say it's pretty negligible at best. I'm sure it can vary wildly from hardware setup and even probably game to game. I wouldn't say I am super sensitive to these sort of things, but I can certainly notice input lag if it is moderate/severe, and on my setup at least, it's fine.

I am running the Xim Apex on my XB1X with a g pro set at 500HZ on both pieces of hardware and playing on an Asus VG248QE through HDMI input. Input lag for me on games like RDR2 and Gears 4 is minimal but more noticeable on RDR2 definitely, always feels like there is just that ever so slight delay on movements. I am probably going to pick up BO4 on my xbox and test that out soon. I just got my XIM setup last night with this system so I will continue to test and report back when I know more!

I would really need a proper setup to give an assessment of this with a PS4 pro or base model as well and the proper instruments to objectively measure the input lag on both consoles with similar setups. Apart from any of us actually empirically testing the numbers it's pretty much conjecture and can be somewhat subjective IMO.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: roads on 11:08 AM - 12/01/18
Mice definitely don't do 1000hz constantly, some rare exceptions existing. XIM fills the gaps. Sure its not that Santi?
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: Phil Ashio on 02:59 PM - 12/01/18

Quote
Edit #2: Some of what I'm experiencing could be related to the systemwide implementation of Vsync that the X uses. Using free sync might actually help a lot if you have a monitor that supports it. Guess I might hold onto mine until the update.

He basically draws the same conclusion as I have and its not my accout on reddit or anything like that.

I don't think the Vsync is system wide it's only reserved for backwards compatible games and possibly unpatched Xbox One games (though, I'm not 100% on that one). Games that have an X patch; dev settings override the forced 16x texture filtering and vsync.

Have you tried comparing setting your monitor settings manually to automatically? Because I'm just not experiencing what you are and historically there is no reason you should be experiencing what you are. Xbox has always had better input response compared to Playstation. It's why they always preferred using Xbox systems at fighting game tournaments if possible. You can find plenty of input lag comparisons and controversies where PS3 or PS4 had much more input lag than 360 or One.

If you had said that X1X BC games had noticeable input lag then, yes, it's very noticeable. Not even compared to a 360 but compared to current gen games. Otherwise every game I played on both patched or X enhanced feels more responsive and smoother on X1X than Pro.

Also, you have to be cautious comparing games in multiplayer. Network lag does impact input lag, you mentioned BO3 and BO4 and that applies to those games especially.

Where do you reside? Most of Xbox's player base is focused in North America so if you live on another continent maybe that's where your problems stem from.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: Santigold on 08:18 AM - 12/02/18
I was testing in a private local game, so dont think network has anything to do with it.

I played a session of 8 hours yesterday on Xbox and recorded it. Then switched to PS4 Pro and played a few games there. The input lag is absolutely noticeable between those 2 systems.

It is not on my end, as Ive tested with 2 different monitors- one 1440p and one is 4K and controller cables connected directly to the console.

Overall- it is sorta playable on Xbox, but adds unnecessary floatyness and rubberbanding to the aiming feel. (esp. in Wolfenstein game) And again Im talking about controllers connected directly to the console. Ofcourse it could also be felt using a xim. PS4 Pro was instant, no matter what, while on the X I had that ever so slightly input lag of I would say 16-25 ms. Around 1-1.5 frames delay compared to the PS4 Pro is how it felt to me on XBox X.

Input Lag can be caused by the game engine/implementation or the OS, Im not saying that PS4 has better input lag across the board and every single game and scenario. It is absolutely possible that some fighting games were badly implemented on the PS4 and had less input lag on Xbox.

I only compared COD WW2 and BO4 and those were my findings. Those of you who dont experience or dont feel/notice the input lag or perhaps dont have it (which I dont think is actually the case but whatever)- then theres no need to worry about anything, youre all set. Im staying on PS4 for COD however.

Oh and btw- yesterday I played  BO4 8 hours straight on Xbox and the skill is waaaaaaay lower in central europe than on the ps4. I didnt meet a sick tryhard party even once during those 8 hours. It is way more "laid back" and "relaxed" playing on Xbox One than PS4. However I did notice that the connections got significantly worse progressively with the daytime. At around 12-1 am it became basically unplayable. Here in europe we dont have many xbox players, the numbers on psn are somewhere around 3:1 or bigger compared to xbl, basically same as the sale numbers.

I mean all COD tournaments are played on PS4 and all competitive streamers and youtubers play on ps4 as far as I can tell, thats why I was surprised to read that apparently there are many competitive players on Xbox.

That f1stdacuffs streamer guy also regularly streams on his Xbox X and I only see bad players in his games. You will maybe see a jumpshotting player once in 7-8 games. Same as it was in my game session yesterday. On PS4 its alot more sweaty, there are worlds in between. At least here in central europe it is the case. I will upload the 8 hours game session on Xbox X just for fun. The size is around 500 Gigabytes (4k 60fps @ 120 Mbits/second), which is half a Terabyte. I wanna see how youtube handles it lol.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: Phil Ashio on 12:26 PM - 12/02/18
I only compared COD WW2 and BO4 and those were my findings. Those of you who dont experience or dont feel/notice the input lag or perhaps dont have it (which I dont think is actually the case but whatever)- then theres no need to worry about anything, youre all set. Im staying on PS4 for COD however.

See, when I first tried the BO4 beta on X1X compared to playing it on Pro I did notice that it had more input lag but the beta was a bigger mess in general on X1X. Also with patch 1.04, the one where they made netcode flawless, it felt on point. After they released 1.05, where they messed up the netcode again, input went back to feeling inconsistent depending on the lobby. This just reeks of a netcode issue more than anything else. And WW2 has always felt better on X1X than on Pro.

Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: antithesis on 02:46 PM - 12/02/18
I can see the problem right off-the-bat in those photos - your walls are painted white.

Microsoft devices don't respond well to electronic signals bouncing back off them from reflective surfaces. Paint them MS Green, the signals will be absorbed and solve your input lag problems instantly!

All I can say is I bought PS4, XB1 and PS4 Pro day one. I'm yet to even look at an XB1X box. Sure, the hardware is finally up to scratch, but the library of exclusive Xbox games is abysmal and I loathe XB1's clunky, laggy, poorly designed UI. The only game I've invested any time into on XB1 is Sunset Overdrive, every other game I play is on PS4, including cross-platform.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: PookieLove on 06:04 AM - 12/03/18
I have both consoles, side by side, and the first thing I noticed was that my aim felt heavier on xbox one x than on the xbox one.. I'm glad someone noticed this but is there a fix? It's super annoying watching my accuracy drop game after game.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: Santigold on 10:22 AM - 12/03/18
It is most likely inside the OS/gpu drivers on the X, so in that case theres no solution as of right now.

In terms of BO4 patches that changed the behaviour- I did my tests in a custom game, which is hosted directly on the console and not on dedicated servers. Which means the connection didnt have any influence on my tests.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: Phil Ashio on 12:15 PM - 12/03/18
Doesn't matter if it's dedicated or not. There's something in COD's netcode that adds over a hundred ms of lag regardless of whether you play online or not and it seems completely random too. You can in fact test this by playing enough against bots even in local play with connection turned off. You'll notice that some matches feel fine and some matches you're getting lag phagged by bots and the aiming feels floatier. It's not an Xbox thing it's a COD netcode thing and the seeming randomness of it can make you believe all sorts of things. I went to search for that video demonstrating this but I found something related but more interesting instead:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRcjsa6een8

So depending on what mood COD is in it can give you or your opponent a 3-6+ frame advantage. Unfortunately for me with patch 1.05 and later it feels like i'm always at this disadvantage and why I've given up on BO4.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: Santigold on 01:02 PM - 12/03/18
So depending on what mood COD is in it can give you or your opponent a 3-6+ frame advantage. Unfortunately for me with patch 1.05 and later it feels like i'm always at this disadvantage and why I've given up on BO4.

This in engine delay was exactly the same in BO2 already. I remember some ppl made similar video as in the link, hosting a split screen custom game and comparing delay. It is sad than nothing has improved since then, its the same sheety broken 3arch engine with broken camera angles and random player model animation delay. Makes you wonder if it is actually on purpose- adds more randomness and increases the chances for a bad player to get a random kill on a better player, by seeing the enemy 80ms earlier.

What I felt was something different though, it was button to pixel delay, not in terms of different lag compensation for every player.

You can have lag compensation on moving enemies in the game, but no button to pixel delay- say if you fire a bullet, or move your crosshair- it is instant. On Xbox X it seems both is happening with BO4, at least it did for me. COD wasnt the only game, Wolfenstein 2 also had this input lag and its actually a single player 60 fps game. Thats is the reason why I think it is not just BO4's fault. And again, on PS4 I dont have the button to pixel delay as I do on Xbox, but the engine lag (lag compensation/delayed enemy player model animation) is present on ps4 as well. But that is purely BO4s fault then.

Ive seen too many reports for Xbox X having input lag from different ppl and in different games, so in this case I do think its the Operating System itself and not the games. I mean the guy above has both Xbone and Xbone X and even he noticed input lag on X when comparing both. But it doesnt matter to me any more for now, because I am going to sell the Xbox these days. It will only matter to me again if I will consider buying a next gen Xbox some time in the future.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: Santigold on 03:08 PM - 12/10/18
I found this right here rather interesting. The guy is a casual player, but even he claims that the PS4 sticks are "more responsive". Well he prolly isnt tech savy enough and cant point the finger to what exactly is going on, but it is in fact:

a- higher input lag on Xbox X and

b- dead zone on the analogue sticks on the Xbox One controller isnt as tight as on ps4 controller. You have a noticeable travel (a few millimeters), before the character starts reacting to the analogue sticks. It is not big, but it will be noticable to ppl who are sensitive enough to this kind of stuff. So heres the point in the video, where SolidRev mentions it (at 4:00 minutes):

https://youtu.be/6tjYBxMxRI8?t=240
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: Brutalimp on 10:39 PM - 12/10/18
I just saw a digital foundry video that tested the input lag on a C8 TV for a video game (mega man 11). The Xbox X had 62ms of latency and ps4 pro had 90ms input lag on the same TV.

Ps4 generally uses triple buffering while Xbox games tend to use double buffering with adaptive vsynct. In general ps4 pro has higher input latency and lower stick resolution compared to Xbox One X.... so you were saying?
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: Santigold on 02:58 PM - 12/11/18
Im saying that bo4 and ww2 arent megaman. Besides that its not just me saying, its several ppl saying.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: Nudedude on 11:07 PM - 12/20/18
Hi,

so im not only one who detect some lag. Cant compare PS4 or other Xbox1X with XIM Apex but there is for sure something going on, mostly in HIP movement. Iīm playing only BO4 right now, and i can tell its rubberbandish feel at HIP controlls, not so much in ADS.

ADS is fine, smooth and everything with XIM Apex, but HIP feels laggy and rubberbandish for sure when making fast "corner checks" to look from side to side.. Thats easy to detect after played with PC 165Hz. Same monitor (Asus 1440p @ 165Hz). I dont want even try with TV...

Once more i must check monitor settings from Xbox just in case, V-sync etc are forced to be on? Cant remember to see anything else than resolution / colour options etc.

Its not netlag, thats variable and all tested at local game too.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: Santigold on 04:02 AM - 12/21/18
Forget it, its not the xim. Either a fugg up in the game or more likely some fugg up in the xbox os / driver issues, since Ive noticed this behaviour in multiple games and with the xbox controller only, connected via usb.

Its a pile of dog mud, xbox ui still laggy as heck. You open smth and it takes several seconds for the menu to show up or app to open.

Considering that in 2 years at the latest, the ps5 and xbox 2 will come out, save yourself all the hassle with the X. Theres no such lag on pro. I already sold my Xbox X for more money that i payed on black friday, so didnt lose anything.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: Phil Ashio on 04:07 AM - 12/21/18
I haven't touched Black Ops 4 for a couple of weeks. I've been playing pretty much everything but, BO2, MW2, MW3, Battlefield BC2, 4, 1, V. My first match after the Absolute Zero patch and after playing a lot of BF4 and I have to say there is an insane amount of input lag in BO4. I can't compare it to the PS4 version but even compared to emulated 360 CODs the input lag is ridiculous. It's worse than 30 FPS BC2.

I'm redownloading WW2 to see if it has issues but I very much remember testing this one side by side with the PS4 Pro version and it was a bit better on X1X but on both consoles it was one of the more responsive games.

Also, I do remember that BO3 had input lag issues on PS4 Pro but I can't compare it to the Xbox version but my guess is it's just typical Trasharch engineering.

Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: Nudedude on 04:15 AM - 12/21/18
Also remember to shut game down manually after playing, i have noticed it might feel stutter / laggy etc. sometimes if its nor shutted down at home page.

About his rubberbanded feel in HIP movement in BO4, if you controll a RC XD scorestreak it feels much more snappier. Hope HIP movement could feel as sharp too, like in PC.

This might be in game engine.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: wnb on 06:37 AM - 12/21/18
ill be first to admit i didnt even bother to read last page of post sorry.

but i come from pc background ive noticed the input lag instantly didnt feel it was a massive issue(only because im nubbing at the moment not competitive playing.) and then i also thought maybe its because of the Xim Apex im using so i just wrote it off as industrial hazard but yer definatly a delay which u then have to retrain your self for which sucks if you need to be scalping.

just fyi santigolds. i felt the same way before i read your post but im on a 3rd world system at the moment so i didnt really think i had the right to start blasting off haha glad you put in the time and effort mate.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: Santigold on 08:59 AM - 12/21/18
Fair enough mate, thank YOU for sharing your experience and basically confirming what i wrote in previous posts. Yeah for ppl who have a pc background it will be instantly noticeable.

I didnt have any doubts, that the input lag on xbox X indeed exists and is quite annoying, after owning 2 different Xbox Xs and testing it with different monitors, hdmi cables etc. But once again thanks to everyone who actually confirmed that you also noticed input lag.

Once again, I personally played on 3 different PS4 Pros ( i own 2- one is cuh 7000 and one is cuh 7216b newest hardware revision and my brother also has cuh 7216) and theres no input lag like on xbox X or if it exists, it is so small that its not an issue at all, whereas on Xbox X it is very noticable, right as you play the first time or mess around in a custom game for the first time after playing on ps4 pro or pc.

In BO4 the minimal graphics advantage for the Xbox X vs PS4 Pro didnt justify keeping the Xbox for me, the graphical advantage wasnt big enough to compensate the input lag, thats why I sold the X. I dont rule out potentially buying a Xbox 2 in a couple of years, however I will be very cautious about the input lag and test the console somewhere before I drop the money on the Xbox two.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: Phil Ashio on 12:21 PM - 12/21/18
Again, can't speak for BO4 on PS4 Pro but considering that BO3 had similar issues on PS4 Pro and that every other game has better input on X1X it's definitely a Trasharch issue. This is further evidenced by the fact that patch 1.04 played perfectly. Painting it as a console issue is disingenuous especially when you basically just tested one game. So, yes, if you only care about BO4 forget X1X or even PS4 Pro as I bet it probably has its own input lag issues. Get the PC version or forget BO4 all together as Trasharch engineers are terrible.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: Phil Ashio on 02:05 PM - 12/22/18
Redownloaded and played WWII on X1X, it's just as I remember. The input and response is some of the best on consoles and switching between WWII and BO4 the quality in input is even more stark. The Modern Warfare engine line of games has always had a superior input quality to the Black Ops engine line of games but these past two years the contrast is greater than ever.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: gahagafaka on 06:45 PM - 12/22/18
I had tons of input lag on x1x for bo4 but it was cord/cable specific for some odd reason and also how long the software is on.

OS is pretty garbage honestly...  I like the ideas MS has these past few years but I'm annoyed they aren't executing them well/pushing them further.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: Santigold on 07:07 PM - 12/22/18
WWii is indeed the best game in terms of look mechanics by far. No other cod comes close to it (well maybe Infinite Warfare does), let alone any other fps games on consoles. It realy gets very close to PC feel when using the xim. Although afaik SH uses a modified version of 3arc engine.

BO4 though- its a pile of inconsistent mess in terms of look mechanics and input lag.

Yeah the Xbox OS is a half axxed crap, very clunky, laggy and unintuitive. Xbox store is a mess too, which is why Phil spencer aims to "fix" it in the future. I hope they do alot better on their next gen console, because Xbox One as a whole was a big disappointment in my book. I came from 360 and it was a better system overall in terms of functionality, OS and so on.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: Phil Ashio on 10:43 PM - 12/22/18
WWii is indeed the best game in terms of look mechanics by far. No other cod comes close to it (well maybe Infinite Warfare does), let alone any other fps games on consoles. It realy gets very close to PC feel when using the xim. Although afaik SH uses a modified version of 3arc engine.

BO4 though- its a pile of inconsistent mess in terms of look mechanics and input lag.

Yeah the Xbox OS is a half axxed crap, very clunky, laggy and unintuitive. Xbox store is a mess too, which is why Phil spencer aims to "fix" it in the future. I hope they do alot better on their next gen console, because Xbox One as a whole was a big disappointment in my book. I came from 360 and it was a better system overall in terms of functionality, OS and so on.

Personally, I thought the OS after the blades was kind of crappy and the newest Xbox one is on par maybe slightly better. When I went from 360 to PS4 the improvement in OS (except the storefront) was massive. PS4's storefront is still not that great though it was improved once they changed the search feature. In layout I prefer Xbox store front but PS4's does perform a bit better. However, I can't really make a fair comparison with UI performance because I have an SSD installed internally in PS4 and Xbox it's external.

Digital Foundry have mentioned that WWII is a grandchild of the Modern Warfare engine as was Advanced Warfare. To me, the feel and look of them is very much like the current gen version of the MW engine. Ghosts was a heavily modified version of the MW3 engine and of course Treyarch's is an entirely different thing all together. So you really have 3 engines. Treyarch have their Black Ops engine, Infinity Ward use the Ghosts engine (Ghosts and Infinite Warfare), and Sledgehammer use a modified Modern Warfare engine.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: bdm214 on 11:38 AM - 01/10/19
Just to confirm what I read with a question.

Xbox one is better than Xbox one X with the apex (at 500 mouse polling instead of 1000)?

I am asking because I have a ps4 and my brother has an xbox. I want to buy an xbox and ensure that I get the correct console- as i am quite particular about input delay.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: CameronMC on 04:18 PM - 01/29/19
I have the XIM Apex the Xbox One X and the PS4 Pro and I can barely notice a difference on BO4, my KDR and win % on Blackout seems similar on both but here is the thing..

My mate tried both consoles during the free Blackout trial the other week and he only has a XIM4 and he said he can barely AIM on the Xbox One X but keep in mind he had an Ultrawide PC monitor and is forced to play 1080p even though his screen native is 3440x1440p and on PS4 Pro he can use 1440p which might look more right when aiming.

Anyway he said his aiming on the Xbox One version feels floaty and rubber-bandy just like you said in this thread but for some reason with my XIM apex I dont notice it as much but he does with his XIM4?

Kind regards,
Cameron.
Title: Re: Xbox One X input lag fest...
Post by: Phil Ashio on 03:46 PM - 01/30/19
There was a list comparing PS4 and Xbox One games' input lag done by the guy who exposed the 8 frames of input lag in SFV (using a Xim 4 no less) - I can't find it now and I saw it before X1X came out - and in almost all cases the Xbox had more responsive controls, sometimes more than a frame.

I downloaded the Infinite Warfare trial last week on X1X because I had gotten back into it on PS4 Pro and wanted to see what it would be like on Xbox. On PS4 Pro Infinite Warfare has one of the best aiming mechanics which is why I was shocked to find that it still felt better on X1X, it outright felt like playing on a PC.

This is why I firmly believe that any perception of a game playing better on PS4 than on X1X has something to do with an error on the end user's part. The only exception I'm willing to make is BO4. I can't compare it to the PS4 Pro version and it plays terribly on X1X but Treyarch have had issues with controls since BO2 regardless of platform.