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XIM 4 => XIM 4 Discussions => Topic started by: OBsIV on 03:34 PM - 02/07/17

Title: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: OBsIV on 03:34 PM - 02/07/17
As many of you already know, the director of Overwatch posted his disapproval (https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20753235853?page=3#post-58) of the use of devices like ours on consoles.

After this, Kotaku approached me to comment on this for the purpose of an article they were writing (http://kotaku.com/the-fight-over-how-to-play-overwatch-on-consoles-1792099613) about it (which I did).

For the record, I wanted to give you my full response to Kotaku so you can understand our stance on this and share with others:

Why did you create XIM?

XIM started 9 years ago as a goal of mine to be able to play Halo with a Wiimote (http://youtu.be/Rk4WLtuf-ME). I published my method which was then picked by up Engadget and people stated contacting me asking if I could make a mouse and keyboard work on consoles. I quickly discovered that making a mouse feel right on a console shooter is a really hard problem and what made it harder is that every game is different. Over the years I developed and perfected the proprietary technology behind XIMís mouse translation system which makes a mouse feel natural on a console. It is this quality that XIM is known for and is what sets us apart from all the rest.

How do you respond to allegations that XIM gives an unfair advantage to its users and could make games like Overwatch less fair for everyone?

Mouse vs. Controller is a very heated and confrontational topic that you see all the time online (as we are seeing here now). When people talk about ďmouseĒ they are always thinking about it in the context of PC shooters, not console shooters Ė which is a big difference. All shooters have an aiming system that governs how the reticle can move on-screen. On PC, this system is unrestricted Ė you can aim at incredible speeds. This isnít true for consoles Ė where the game is designed for controllers. This restricted aim means that you cannot achieve aim beyond what a controller can do. XIM works in this framework (just like all console peripherals Ė Elite and Scuf controllers, steering wheels, arcade sticks, etc.). XIM isnít about an advantage, but, for the many people out there like myself who cannot game well using a thumbstick, itís about not having a disadvantage. Itís about using a control method that simply suits you best. It turns their console gaming experience into something fun where people can game again with their friends.

How do you respond to Overwatch game director Jeff Kaplan's strong statement against your type of hardware?

Itís unfortunate really, but understandable given all the false information you see out there. I mentioned before about PC ďunlimitedĒ aim vs. console ďlimitedĒ aim Ė this means that XIM doesnít give you PC aim on consoles (it canít). It doesnít transform the user into a gaming god (as any XIM gamer can attest to). Also, there are also blatant cheating devices out there that provide the ability to rapid fire and exploit the game. XIM specifically doesnít and will never support features like this Ė itís not in the spirit of the product. All this being said, people will always want to use XIM even if games like Overwatch were to add native mouse support to their game. Reason being is because controller players, in general, donít want to be matchmade against PC mouse players online. That is certainly unfair and will cause fragmentation in their user base. This all comes down to perception. I hope that those that still have a negative perception will see XIM as just another console input device that you choose based on preference.

Do many disabled gamers use XIM?

Yes! Itís incredible to see XIM grow to where it is today Ė itís an incredible achievement. But, nothing humbles me more than when I get a mail from someone with disabilities thanking me for making it possible to play games with their friends. Or a parent thanking me for giving their child joy through that experience Ė as a parent thatís a big deal to me. This is why I want XIM to be the best way for people with disabilities to enjoy console gaming and will continue to make that happen.
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: buckshot50 on 03:43 PM - 02/07/17
Man that's so cool how you started this product and really inspiring! I'm a web application developer and have a few projects of my own (totally not console related), but to see the longevity and quality of the product, is really an inspiration. Thanks for sharing! :)
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: OBsIV on 04:10 PM - 02/07/17
Thanks, what the Kotaku article didn't mention that I wanted to stress is that gaming is a social thing -- people want to game with their friends. Even all major game publishers include native mouse and keyboard support, that doesn't "solve" their issue.

What I don't understand about these arguments is that, by their definition, no one plays on a "level" playing field. Elite controllers, thumbstick extensions, higher resolution monitors, better headsets, steering wheels, etc. If you are talking about PC too -- higher refresh rate, higher DPI mice, more mouse buttons, higher polling rate, etc. What's great about consoles that people don't see is that it has a single unified restricted aiming system. You cannot go beyond that. You cannot break those rules -- unlike on PC.
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: TSARGA on 06:00 PM - 02/07/17
Quote from: Jeff Kaplan
Disallow mouse and keyboard and input conversion devices

You should have wished him good luck.
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: mindworm22 on 06:56 AM - 02/08/17
I think the article did a good job explaining how many people will be negatively affected by the proposed suggestion.  It almost read like the author was shocked at how large the gaming community was for disabled members. Opening people's eyes in this regard is always a pleasant surprise.

Specializing in pediatrics myself, whenever I have a kiddo who wants to game "like the other kids", I always suggest the XIM to my families and point them in this direction.

Well done OBsIV....Well done.
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 12:13 AM - 02/09/17
XiM is def in the spot light now lol.
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: antithesis on 03:36 AM - 02/09/17
Polygon posted a similar article. More free publicity for Xim - http://www.polygon.com/2017/2/8/14548674/overwatch-mouse-keyboard-support-means-a-lot-to-players-with-disabilities
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: Od1n on 08:49 AM - 02/09/17
i like how they used mine and dojos Overwatch videos for demonstration purpose lol
they arent even our best vids but more like in the 20-30% range of what they could have picked

either way this is another great platform to get exposure from, and for those in fear of a potential ban just read Kaplans response, all the power lies on Sonys and Microsofts side and seeing how eg Sony lately stepped into the M&K market together with Hori theres nothing to worry about at all


also probs to Obsiv for evading that unfair advantage question from the article in a clever and short way, i couldnt think of a better and honest response
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: kojsdojo on 10:03 AM - 02/09/17
lol thats the reason why my channel has been visited in the last 24 hours 30.000 times :D
Lets see what happens i think its a big chance for a official Mouse and Keyboard support :)

If sony decide to ban xim users i would rather say they @#$% theirself with the Tac4 Hori.
Will be interesting to see what happens.
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: OBsIV on 12:19 PM - 02/09/17
i think its a big chance for a official Mouse and Keyboard support :)

Even that's added I doubt it would change anything because: 1) controller players won't want to be matchmade online with native m&K players, 2) people want to game with their friends -- many of which will still be on controllers, 3) adding native m&k for consoles will take significant sales away from premium PC gaming hardware.
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: Od1n on 01:51 PM - 02/09/17
i think its a big chance for a official Mouse and Keyboard support :)

Even that's added I doubt it would change anything because: 1) controller players won't want to be matchmade online with native m&K players, 2) people want to game with their friends -- many of which will still be on controllers, 3) adding native m&k for consoles will take significant sales away from premium PC gaming hardware.

plus the mouse and keyboard group would be a fraction of the actual player base, means if those are only matched up against each other some games most likely wont have the necessary player pool for a smooth experience
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: AKs0n- on 01:53 PM - 02/09/17
i think its a big chance for a official Mouse and Keyboard support :)

Even that's added I doubt it would change anything because: 1) controller players won't want to be matchmade online with native m&K players, 2) people want to game with their friends -- many of which will still be on controllers, 3) adding native m&k for consoles will take significant sales away from premium PC gaming hardware.
I must say it was rather interesting seeing an official stance from Blizzard. There have been countless Thread complaints against m+kb for what 6mths now? I'll I can say is that I have nothing but praise for Sony. I dont think many if any at all will be sending them hate mail anytime soon. Sony took the right stance. If Blizzard does not wish to support m+kb then that's on them.
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: OBsIV on 03:10 PM - 02/09/17
i think its a big chance for a official Mouse and Keyboard support :)

Even that's added I doubt it would change anything because: 1) controller players won't want to be matchmade online with native m&K players, 2) people want to game with their friends -- many of which will still be on controllers, 3) adding native m&k for consoles will take significant sales away from premium PC gaming hardware.

plus the mouse and keyboard group would be a fraction of the actual player base, means if those are only matched up against each other some games most likely wont have the necessary player pool for a smooth experience

Correct. That's what happened with the GoW4 Crossplay experiment they did a couple of months ago. If you read the comments on their forum, the GoW4 PC group was really thrilled because they could finally find matches to play in.
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: OBsIV on 03:13 PM - 02/09/17
Sony took the right stance.

They did, they license 2 different M&K adapters and have had support for developers to add M&K support to their games since the beginning. Nothing is stopping Blizzard from adding support to their game on PS4. I do feel the reason they haven't is because of the things we've been mentioning here.
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: antithesis on 07:42 PM - 02/09/17
i like how they used mine and dojos Overwatch videos for demonstration purpose lol
they arent even our best vids but more like in the 20-30% range of what they could have picked

I think they chose appropriately for what the typical skilled m/kb player should expect. It doesn't show that m/kb is insta-God mode or an aimbot, which is what we've been saying here all along.

If the videos were montages of headshot-only, 360 no-scope kill-streaks, then we'd have more to worry about from the anti-m/kb brigade.
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: AKs0n- on 12:05 AM - 02/11/17
Machinima. Very funny.
https://youtu.be/w_XyhoCkBnM
The Know.
https://youtu.be/qWg57bPxtac
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: willthetech on 02:27 AM - 02/11/17
best sentence in the whole article:

"XIM isnít about an advantage, but, for the many people out there like myself who cannot game well using a thumbstick, itís about not having a disadvantage."

This should be at the front page of your site.

"XIM isnít about an advantage, itís about not having a disadvantage." 8)
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: AKs0n- on 02:49 AM - 02/11/17
best sentence in the whole article:

"XIM isnít about an advantage, but, for the many people out there like myself who cannot game well using a thumbstick, itís about not having a disadvantage."

This should be at the front page of your site.

"XIM isnít about an advantage, itís about not having a disadvantage." 8)
Yeah seriously... this man is a gd brilliant speaker. Genius. Everything he said is undeniable truth. Great story behind everything as well.
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: AIIIIDS! on 06:33 PM - 02/11/17
For me it's about comfort. I have been a PC gamer all my life, I'm comfortable with a mouse, gamepads give me cramps and are simply not ideal for my go-to genre - shooters.

Really it's about using the right tool for the job. I wouldn't squat in running shoes or jog in weightlifting shoes, and I wouldn't play a shooter with sticks or a fighting game with a keyboard when an arcade stick is preferable and doesn't negatively affect my performance.

As for the so called 'even playing field', fact is there is no such thing. The closest you're gonna get is organized tournaments with uniform hardware, but even those aren't completely even, since there are differences even among the experienced players who participate in those.

Look at sports, top athletes pretty much all train the same, they all train hard, but not everyone is a gold medalist, a top scoring footballer, or Michael Jordan.

Even among controller users no one is equal. You have the casuals, and the MLG tryhards who are better at aiming with thumbsticks, and are probably using some mod for their controllers to improve their performance.

I would advise the people crying about their poor performance and blaming it on M+K players to focus on self improvement instead of looking for scapegoats.

I'm sure if you gave them all adapters they'd still play poorly and then blame it on something else.

As for citing previous tests done by matching mouse and keyboard players against controller players, I don't think those are relevant, simply because M+K on PC is unrestricted, whereas on consoles with an adapter you are still subject to the same aiming scheme and hardcoded limits as everyone else.

I can understand how someone can watch videos and come to the conclusion that using XIM4 instantly turns you into the John Wick of video games, since those feature  experienced M+K users playing against casuals with controllers, but I see plenty of good pad users who are serious about gaming, and aim well, do the same to other pad users.

A proper test, IMO, would be XIM4 users against competitive console gamers. Set that up, record it and upload it.

Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: xSundown on 06:04 AM - 02/17/17
My eyes hurt after reading that yellow text lol. Great answers. Nobody says anything about racing wheels for racing games. Yet everyone loses their minds for a mouse for aiming... I love it.
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: buckshot50 on 11:06 PM - 02/20/17
I'm a little let down you didn't post the joker meme with that :)
Totally true btw!
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: SaltySkyKnight on 10:24 PM - 03/05/17
For me it's about comfort. I have been a PC gamer all my life, I'm comfortable with a mouse, gamepads give me cramps and are simply not ideal for my go-to genre - shooters.

Really it's about using the right tool for the job. I wouldn't squat in running shoes or jog in weightlifting shoes, and I wouldn't play a shooter with sticks or a fighting game with a keyboard when an arcade stick is preferable and doesn't negatively affect my performance.

As for the so called 'even playing field', fact is there is no such thing. The closest you're gonna get is organized tournaments with uniform hardware, but even those aren't completely even, since there are differences even among the experienced players who participate in those.

Look at sports, top athletes pretty much all train the same, they all train hard, but not everyone is a gold medalist, a top scoring footballer, or Michael Jordan.

Even among controller users no one is equal. You have the casuals, and the MLG tryhards who are better at aiming with thumbsticks, and are probably using some mod for their controllers to improve their performance.

I would advise the people crying about their poor performance and blaming it on M+K players to focus on self improvement instead of looking for scapegoats.

I'm sure if you gave them all adapters they'd still play poorly and then blame it on something else.

As for citing previous tests done by matching mouse and keyboard players against controller players, I don't think those are relevant, simply because M+K on PC is unrestricted, whereas on consoles with an adapter you are still subject to the same aiming scheme and hardcoded limits as everyone else.

I can understand how someone can watch videos and come to the conclusion that using XIM4 instantly turns you into the John Wick of video games, since those feature  experienced M+K users playing against casuals with controllers, but I see plenty of good pad users who are serious about gaming, and aim well, do the same to other pad users.

A proper test, IMO, would be XIM4 users against competitive console gamers. Set that up, record it and upload it.

A Xim is however an obvious advantage in everyway and needs to be noted as one not denied.

I was a competitive controller player for years, have never picked up a Mouse once in my life aside from typing, bought a Xim and in under 5 hours was pulling the same and then higher k/DS than I was previously, getting kills at ranges I never would have attempted with controller among countless other small noticable changes, I have under 70 hours of MnK gameplay and I can confidently say that it feels far superior to my thousands of hours of controller muscle memory, as MnK is far easier to just pick up and use than a controller, it's basic principle.  My k/d didn't increase too much per se but oh my kpm was significantly higher, the mouse lets me play more aggressive raising my average kpm from a 2.5 to around 3.5-4 on Battlefield, I played Ow for the first time ever after getting my Xim and Im already ranked globally on leaderboards for it (I would be with controller too but likely not as good)

Its astonishgly scary that most MnK players are still using aim assist too (something I never used as a controller player) so not only are you basically cheating with a Xim you are also letting the game aim with your superior input device lmao.

For me using MnK is a moral gray area, I have millions of MnK-Hackusations on multiple games from when I used a controller lol I actually bought a Xim as a bucket list type thing, I bought it to piss people off because I was accussed of it for so long and holy @#$% I will never pick up a controller again because a MnK is just that, superior, to a controller in everyway.

However an interesting thing to note, in all my experiences with competitive gaming, controller players were actually always the best players, ironically enough with a few MnK players who competed at the same level (tho significantly less ratio wise), I always figured it was due to the fact most people buy MnK and expect to be gods instantly(like me lol), and they were bad PC players who came to console to dominate on console plebs but couldn't compete competitively, but the truth of the matter is while MnK is an advantage, it's about the intelligence of the player themselves and how much of the MnK advantage they can use.  I can pickup any FPS game and dominate (and that's not some Dunning-Kruger assumption mind you) with controller or MnK, although MnK is undoubtedly superior, almost the same things can be done with controller, MnK is just far better for muscle memory and will allow bad players to cheese some dumb kills at times, as MnK can do things a controller never will but its still not like PC.

This is why it's a gray area for me, I kinda wish console would get native MnK support on all games cuz it's just better, tho I wish console would also be controller only as it's meant to be, controller just feels so bad compared to MnK. Sony and Microsoft need to just provide and mandate native support honestly, while it is cheating to use a Xim I don't really care, I hardly play games now anyway and I was accussed of it for so long it feels good to have one.  Its an advantage but only a minor one for a good player, as when I had controller I still beat MnK players daily, it's just even easier now, I feel like MnK is a larger advantage for worse players especially with aim assist added to that, tho they still wont be able to compete at a high level competitive level unless they already did with a controller.

Overall I just contradicted myself there a multitude of times in my rant,
TL;DR MnK is a major advantage but I can't go back to controller it's just superior, console needs native MnK.
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: piiwii on 10:51 PM - 03/05/17
console needs native MnK.

I've said this before and I'll say it again - even if 100% of developers supported native M&K on console, XIM would still have an important role to play.

Developers always do stupid crap like aim acceleration, velocity jumps and the like.

I'm playing Horizon right now and it has this thing where the camera speed increases if you're sprinting, and drops when you're using this investigation mode. Destiny is the opposite -  you turn slower when you sprint.

I've even seem bad aim acceleration on PC.

Devs just have this addiction to solving problems that don't actually exist.
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: SANTERO on 05:30 AM - 03/14/17
wow this is beautiful
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: Descendits on 12:25 PM - 03/16/17
I'm not going to lie, myself and probably a good 90% of other XIM users purchased the XIM with the intention of exploiting mouse and keyboard capabilities. Only to be somewhat disappointed in the 'limited' console input that you mention... Though, it was almost a relief, and honestly I just loved the excitement of having a different way to play the same games. It feels weird to pick up my controller and play some other games now. As I only use XIM for FPS which I primarily play. But there is a kind of community within XIM and it is kind of a hobby... making your own personalized settings and customizing your game play. It's just more fun! Precision aiming can be easier for me, but it certainly is nothing that will inflate my skill as the dynamics of being a talented gamer transcend into many more factors than simply aiming.

PS tbh I feel that an anologue stick and scuff provide much better movement than a mouse and keyboard. Having unlimited vectors of movement and having the ability to move at a different speed as opposed to a keyboard button on/off is better. The only advantage offered is the precision of a mouse which, as you mention, is limited to the capacity of a controllers input.
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: shawly on 04:27 AM - 03/29/17
A somewhat good solution would be, that both M$ and $ony should support KB/M and the ability for game developers to check which input devices are used and separate players into different lobbies.
Then the XIM could identify as official controller or official KB/M, depending on what type of input device you connect to the XIM.
This way XIM players with unsupported controllers still get into controller lobbies and KB/M users get to play with other KB/M users.

This way controller players couldn't complain about the unfairness anymore, KB/M users can still play with KB/M and people with certain disabilities can still use their special devices without being excluded.

The only problem that needs to be solved is how a party of different players get treated, I couldn't come up with a good solution, but the one solution is, either everyone uses a controller or no one uses a controller, or the friends with controllers agree to going into KB/M lobbies.
But this way the XIM won't lose it's purpose and everyone is happy, except for the people that use the XIM intentionally to get an advantage over controller players.

P.S.: Sorry if someone already came up with this, I didn't read all the posts.
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: omega4 on 08:37 PM - 04/01/17
Hi everyone. First time poster here but I did buy an XIM4 and have been using it for several months now, so I wanted to share my perspective.

I'm not handicapped (at least not physically although some might argue mentally). I can use controllers without any pain or discomfort.

Yet I bought an XIM4 to gain an advantage over my fellow console (PS4, XBox One) gamers. And to that end, the XIM4 was money well-spent as it's performed flawlessly.

Prior to getting an XIM4, my KDR in COD Infinite Warfare was around 0.80 - 0.90 in Team Deathmatch. Sad but true.

After getting an XIM4, my KDR is now around 2.0 - 3.0 in TDM. It's lower now because I'm trying to get gold camos for the SMGs and that "slide kill" thing is wreaking havoc on my KDR.

I'm not going to make any excuses. My testimonial is simply if you want to dominate other console gamers who are still using controllers, you owe it to yourself to buy an XIM4.
Title: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: mazeeree on 06:59 PM - 04/14/17
It is and always will be an advantage, especially in competitive / eSports games.

For example, I'm playing among the top 5 ESL teams in Rainbow Six and since I got the XIM, I was able to maintain my KD at 2.0 @ lvl 223, being diamond and carrying teams to victory since year 1 season 2.

Sure, game sense plays a huge role in how you utilize the aim advantage but let's be honest, my stats wouldn't be as good and some important ESL games would've been lost if I had played with a controller that day.

As already said, it's indeed a moral gray area. It's up to you how you deal with it but please stop finding excuses and try to convince people it is anything but an advantage, because is it and always will be in any game. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: OBsIV on 07:45 PM - 04/14/17
It is and always will be an advantage, especially in competitive / eSports games.

To say it's an advantage means that people using XIM4 are always better than players on controllers. That simply isn't the case. You may be better with a XIM4 compared to using controller, but, that isn't generally true for everyone. Again, this is about what input method suits you best -- nothing more.
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: TehSubXero on 06:19 AM - 04/30/17
i'm so sick of this ignorant rhetoric.  don't like it? buy one.  cant afford it?  then how tf you got an elite controller, AND a scuff, a40's, and a 1ms monitor?  I can't use mnk?  alright then cancel your fios and call up at&t cuz i got 2 down 1 up and thats litterally the best speed offered in this county.  meanwhie you can order a xim to your door in rural Zimbabwe.  furthmore, if this is insta god just add mouse pad then why tf is my alt hardstuck low plat?  you write back to jeff and tell that balding fairy that what he NEEDS to do is buy my team mates xims because if i see another roadhog miss a hook on a slept enemy, i'm going to have a siezure.  that man is just upset he has a hairy back and is responsible for 3 bigfoot sightings a year when he goes to the beach.  blizzard trying to pass their aversion to the fact that a xim is a better investment than loot boxes off as concern for competetive integrity...that joke is so good they could probably sell it to kevin hart.
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: MjŲlnir on 07:28 AM - 05/01/17
It is and always will be an advantage, especially in competitive / eSports games.

To say it's an advantage means that people using XIM4 are always better than players on controllers. That simply isn't the case. You may be better with a XIM4 compared to using controller, but, that isn't generally true for everyone. Again, this is about what input method suits you best -- nothing more.

I totally agree with ALL you said and I'm really happy you took time to answer Kotaku.

A lot of friends I know in real life are better with controllers than some XIMers, and even a great controller player can be better with a controller even after trying for weeks with MK.

And btw, having a great headset, a SCUF or even a modded controller and other things like that work in the same way but here, nothing to say...


But as always, the fear of the unknown is the mainstream.
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: Supernatural X on 05:04 PM - 05/01/17

But as always, the fear of the unknown is the mainstream.
[/quote]

This is probably the best way to sum up the hate for kb/m users on console.
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: Lineater on 12:20 PM - 06/02/17
I'm not going to lie, myself and probably a good 90% of other XIM users purchased the XIM with the intention of exploiting mouse and keyboard capabilities. Only to be somewhat disappointed in the 'limited' console input that you mention... Though, it was almost a relief, and honestly I just loved the excitement of having a different way to play the same games. It feels weird to pick up my controller and play some other games now. As I only use XIM for FPS which I primarily play. But there is a kind of community within XIM and it is kind of a hobby... making your own personalized settings and customizing your game play. It's just more fun! Precision aiming can be easier for me, but it certainly is nothing that will inflate my skill as the dynamics of being a talented gamer transcend into many more factors than simply aiming.

PS tbh I feel that an anologue stick and scuff provide much better movement than a mouse and keyboard. Having unlimited vectors of movement and having the ability to move at a different speed as opposed to a keyboard button on/off is better. The only advantage offered is the precision of a mouse which, as you mention, is limited to the capacity of a controllers input.

necro reply, just wanted to chime in and agree with you about the hobby thing. XIM is like a sub-hobby within a hobby. I grew up playing PC shooters. Destiny was the first online console FPS I got into. Loved the game, but I have never been comfortable playing FPS with controller, going back to Halo 1 on Xbox when I'd get destroyed by my younger brother. XIM enhanced the experience for me. It did improve my gameplay, and just made playing the game more fun overall.  And the community here is great. Friendly and generous with their ideas, curves, settings, etc.  I've played with Ximmers and have found comfortable setups and profiles thanks to them.

Me vs. my brother sums up my thoughts about XIM.  He's about 5 years younger than me.  I grew up playing shooters mostly on PC, he grew up playing Halo and CoD on consoles. XIM makes me better at CoD, but I still can't perform as well as he does with a controller.
Title: Re: Kotaku: The Fight Over How To Play Ovewatch On Consoles
Post by: FrizzleFry on 09:27 PM - 03/13/18
That pretty much mirrors my own experience. I've been playing PC shooters since ...whatever day one was. Throw in some Atari ST/Amiga mouse use before that. That's well over 30 years of muscle memory.


I resisted getting a console as long as I could. I even played the first 2 Halo's on PC. But then in 2006 I moved, got a new job, then discovered some of the guys I worked with had a weekly game night where they got together on the Xbox360 and played L4D, GRAW, and so on. So I bit the bullet and got one.
And immediately discovered that I suuuuuuck with a controller. I couldn't understand why you couldn't just plug in a mouse & kb, why they would limit it like that. Still don't, really. But rather than give up or be frustrated all the time, I found Xim.
We play co-op most of the time, but occasionally when we do play PVP I don't 'kick everyones @#$%', rather the reverse. So if any of you console makers are reading this, you can count me among one of Obsiv's 'people who use it not to be disadvantaged', and know that banning keyboard and mouse would probably result in this 51 year old guy hesitate to ever buy another console.

Also, I am of the opinion that if the controller your opponent uses makes or breaks your game, then you need to work on your tactics. It's definitely my problem in PvP