XIM Community
XIM 4 => XIM 4 Discussions => Topic started by: LeesSummit09 on 08:07 PM - 03/05/15
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According to Splitfish company that makes the Fragfx, they have agreed to a licensed agreement with Sony. They say all other third party controllers, xim4, tuact, etc. will be disabled in an update within a couple of months. Do you have any word or information concerning this?
UPDATE: Changed title as to not mislead people.
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I saw their announcement, but, didn't see anything about an update to disable anything. Do you have a link?
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I just went to chrome and put in split fish ps4 and hit the translate their home page. It is an announcement on their home page.
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Still not seeing it...
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Put in Splitfish ps4, scroll down to Inside Splitfish, hit the, 'translate this page.'
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Well then worst case scenario would be Obs has to license it too, good thing is the step out of the shadowand the complete controler will work including audio and touch pad. This would end the cheat debate.
As I read its a chip needed.
Can we have Wifi if you have to redesign? :)
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Its in German but it says that Xim may be excluded by upcoming updates.
http://inside-splitfish.com/index.php/79-news/184-neuer-partner-von-splitfish-gameware-ist-sony
Hersteller wie Cronusmax, Tuact, Xim usw. müssen weiter damit rechnen in den nächsten Monaten durch Updates ausgeschlossen zu werden!
This is bad news for now. Obs you should get in touch with Sony asap. I hope there is no exclusivity deal.
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Remember that we are a passthrough solution. We don't talk to the PS4 -- the DS4 does. I wouldn't jump to conclusions.
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Of course but if they change the DS4 algorthm which they likely will, you will have to put Orbital on it with fall out times of days/weeks if he is not available. May also be more expensive than having a deal with Sony and putting the price on us with a more expensive XIM.
Splitfish will make sure they use this advantage. The second the XIM works again they will telephone to Sony. That’s what you would do if you would have paid for a deal.
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Every bad has a positive. Licensing a KBAM with Sony is now possible. That is something great.
Just wonder if they make this through their native M+K support without turnspeed limit and the need to translate. That would be the worst news for Xim possible. (although I heard native M+K on Sony sucked)
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Splitfish will make sure they use this advantage. The second the XIM works again they will telephone to Sony. That’s what you would do if you would have paid for a deal.
Or, XIM could use a Splitfish controller as authentication. Muaha ha ha ha
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Don't worry. Remember, Bluetooth is an standard protocol and XIM4 has a radio on-board.
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Seems like a bold marketing statement to me.
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Splitfish will make sure they use this advantage. The second the XIM works again they will telephone to Sony. That’s what you would do if you would have paid for a deal.
Or, XIM could use a Splitfish controller as authentication. Muaha ha ha ha
Oh I am sure they would love matching their sale numbers to those of the XIM4.
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If you want an English version, go to Inside splitfish on google chrome and you can hit a translate this page. Splitfish has been promising a controller ever since BF4 came out and this long delay made a lot of fragfx for ps3 customers mad. They would only say we are negotiating with another company and we have a confidentiality agreement, so we can't divulge anything. Well, now we find out that company is Sony and they have what they feel is an exclusive license. It still sounds like their controller will not be available until this summer. So i guess that is why it will be a couple of months before the update.
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Every bad has a positive. Licensing a KBAM with Sony is now possible. That is something great.
Just wonder if they make this through their native M+K support without turnspeed limit and the need to translate. That would be the worst news for Xim possible. (although I heard native M+K on Sony sucked)
Licensing was always possible, remember the Hori device for PS3
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I cant imagine its exclusive, the money you would have to put on table for that would exceed the potential of a peanut firm as they are. Makes sense they need until summer as they have to redesign the parts for the Sony chip.
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Are you fvcking kidding me? I was just about to buy XIM4 :(
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You still should, Obsiv will find a way. If not you just sell it or buy a ONE. Its months until something will happen, if even.
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There's not enough ONE players here in my country :(
OBsIV-san, I'm counting on you!
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Theres no P in XIM, so often I heard this from the former "cool" community LOL
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i see nothing mentioned about xim and all written in english.
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They talk about a "chip" they need from sony for their products.
I think that its just an advertisement mambojambo. If anything happens it will be in 6 months or even more.
Still xim uses the DS4 so there is no way they can detect it.
Good for them for licensing their product at least we wont hear the "Cheater" word again.
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MIRCOSOFT FOR DA WIN :)
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if its true, its just anohter reason to sell the ... PS4 = (Piece of Shat 4)
and buy an XB1
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i guess all its about is splitfish buying the licence chip you need for true communication with the PS4
since XIM is a passthrough im sure even an algorithm-change should still make it work
and if not w1ce can start selling his w1cemeister again lol
edit:
just read the german article and it is indeed about the communication chip that you need to licence in order to have your third party hardware communicate directly with the PS4
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i guess all its about is splitfish buying the licence chip you need for true communication with the PS4
since XIM is a passthrough im sure even an algorithm-change should still make it work
and if not w1ce can start selling his w1cemeister again lol
You want to preorder the first one ? ;D
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i actually would love to own a w1cemeister haha
but i want the newer and better one with inbuilt ambilight haha
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Curious:
What would be worst case scenario? A chip? A change in algorithm? Bluetooth update?
Is there anything that would be impossible to deal with on the XIM side of things?
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i actually would love to own a w1cemeister haha
but i want the newer and better one with inbuilt ambilight haha
Sure, with 100€ extra you can get the Ambilight DLC pack with enough leds to burn both of your eyes. Simply because the led triangle in DS4 is not enough...
I wouldnt be worried here. If they cut out the wired communication, xim team can already do it with BT. Didnt Obsiv say before hori pad, that they were already preparing to make BT solution?
Then its a different thing if they require a chip, but should we care if it can still be made invisible to PS4?
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They talk about a "chip" they need from sony for their products.
I think that its just an advertisement mambojambo. If anything happens it will be in 6 months or even more.
Still xim uses the DS4 so there is no way they can detect it.
Good for them for licensing their product at least we wont hear the "Cheater" word again.
+1, makes since to me, the DS4 controller has a chip in it I bet, the Splitfish will need a chip because it will not use the DS4, being that the Xim4 is a pass through device and the PS4 talks directly with the DS4 (which already has a chip) I think we have nothing to worry about.
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just read the german article and it is indeed about the communication chip that you need to licence in order to have your third party hardware communicate directly with the PS4
This is no different than Xbox One and Xbox 360. All these peripherals have authentication chips. They are also built on standard open protocols like USB and Bluetooth -- both of which are built in to XIM4. Sony isn't dumb, if they are going to try to do something like this, there is a limit to how far they'll go since the risk is very significant and real of bricking existing controller customers.
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What would be the advantages of licensing that chip?
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So how real is this threat reported by Splitfish?? Can we get a confirmation from Sony? Or is this all just a BS stunt from Splitfish to try and get customers from existing Xim4 owners?
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Could get a legal issue if they have licensed exclusive rights.
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Sony has both licensed wired and wireless products and, again, runs the risk of breaking those products. Also, we aren't alone here. I may take exception to Cronus and Tuact in their marketing practices, but, like us, their developers are smart and capable. We will all ensure this won't happen.
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What would be the advantages of licensing that chip?
so that instead of needing to connect a controller to XIM, you would not need the controller and the XIM could TALK to the PS4 directly without pass through...
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... and wirelessly over BT
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personally I prefer a cheaper cost XIM device over native "talk to the box" registered hardware.
but @#$% you not... the lack of XB1 controller charging when hooked up is got me in a real pissy mood lately.
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We will all ensure this won't happen.
I believe you. I'm about to buy XIM4 :)
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Theres no P in XIM, so often I heard this from the former "cool" community LOL
They were right because the xim3 never added PS3 support
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Dunno I have the feeling a lawyer is needed to check the Playstation agreement. Sony may have not enforced it but splitfish bought the licensing and will make sure its worth something. I am not sure they just did it because they could not follow XIM and CM piggybacking.
Not needing a controller attached, being able to use that third port for something else, like stinkyboard without hub, touchpad support, audio suppport. Wireless suppport and no more 5m/15ft restriction and no cable at all.
It could be waking sleeping lions but Splitfish already done that. Obsiv I think you should make some calls at Sony.
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...and release a XIM5 for christmas.
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Its not like we haven't reached out to Sony and Microsoft in the past -- we have. They didn't respond (multiple times). I'm actually surprised they responded to Splitfish as all us console input adapters are a drop in the bucket compared to their total install base and it would upset their existing console base. Not to mention Splitfish doesn't make good products which would cheapen Sony's brand. Maybe that's why they still don't have a licensing deal in the US. I also doubt Microsoft would ever talk to them. In any case, I'd be more than happy to talk to Sony in the very unlikely event that they reach out to us concerning this.
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So why did Sony make a deal with a @#$% product?
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I mean now you have something to talk about. How do you reach out? Do you mail or try to get someone on the phone?
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They have official licensing channels. It doesn't matter. Whatever they may or may not do we will be ready for it.
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Ok, I just read their article and as a native German speaker I would not worry about anything said in it.
It's based on pure speculation, merely mentions that Sony 'could' disable the communication of adapters.
It further states that their solution is guaranteed to not be disabled by updates, which is their entire point pretty much...
"Other manufacturers would still have to 'keep in mind' that they 'could' get disabled in the coming months."
Seems like a pure scare tactic to me to push their official authentication chip.
Since there is no communication with the console itself, no authentication is required.
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Maybe they are saying that because it happen once to them. I remember when i was playing ps3 with the frag fx v1 and sony came with the 1.50 update that completely disable it. Splitfish just release an other hardware that was compatible and said the v1 didnt work anymore. But the guy of tuact made a firmware that made the v1 works again even after the update. So splitfish doesnt seem to have a big engineer team.
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Yes you are right, I remember that too. And yes, I seem to remember that Tuact and Splitfish have that type of relationship (like Cronus and Titan).
Thanks for the German translation. As a software engineer, if I were Sony, I'd be paranoid about breaking existing customers by the level of aggression that would be required to attempt a guaranteed detection of XIM (or Cronus or Venom for that matter). A single false positive would be unacceptable. But, no matter what, we will be ready.
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This is par for the course for splitfish. They will lie cheat and steal to sell their crappy product. While I totally despise splifish the Xim team gets a D- for marketing. The Xim is such an awesome product and it's been that way with every version and the install base is terrible for such a great product. Step 1 is that instead of someone selling Xim4 on Amazon for 160 dollars how about selling the Xim4 on Amazon yoursel OB ? The last time I looked there were a good number of reviews for people who paid 160 dollars for their Xim4. When I google keyboard and mouse adapter the Amazon add is the first thing that shows up on my browser. Google keyboard and mouse adapter for Xbox one and ps4 and see what pops up. I wouldn't be surprised if the Splitfish sales were 20 sold for every one Xim sold. It's probably worse but that's just a guess. The first device I purchased was from Splitfish because they actually market their product. I was so disappointed with it that I found the Xim mentioned on their forums. So basically I found out about Xim from Splitfish.
The Xim4 will be usable on the PS4 no matter what happens so I wouldn't sweat it, as explained by the relevant posts in this thread.
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Well native speaker "müssen damit rechnen" is not "keep in mind" but "may reckon that". Of course it’s a pure threat based on the simple fact that they have something in writing and and a chip to build into their devices. They will try to make sure the money they paid for the license is worth something. If piggybacking is still possible by XIM and CM, what did they achieve? What was the dance with Sony good for? Just to make the device more expensive and a needing a redesign to add a chip and pay some fees? I would take the threat seriously even if with the ONE its not taking you out of game completely. Thinking it was weeks until the XIM could be made working with the DS4 I believe Sony can make Orbital a real hard time.
I am also thinking of the advantages the chip brings like no controller necessary, less latency maybe and true wireless. So those official licensing channels should be poked again.
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You forgot touchpad support roads :P
I find it strange there's no mention of XIM, Tuact or CM on the EN-US site
https://world.splitfish.com/newgen.html (https://world.splitfish.com/newgen.html)
If there "Licensed" wired controller/mouse has some sort of touchpad functionality, Will you look into OBsIV? Would be nice to play Killzone SP with the XIM :D
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Yeah, audio also directly over XIM would be possible.
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if its true, its just anohter reason to sell the ... PS4 = (Piece of Shat 4)
and buy an XB1
Shitbox One is worst.
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You forgot touchpad support roads :P
I find it strange there's no mention of XIM, Tuact or CM on the EN-US site
https://world.splitfish.com/newgen.html (https://world.splitfish.com/newgen.html)
If there "Licensed" wired controller/mouse has some sort of touchpad functionality, Will you look into OBsIV? Would be nice to play Killzone SP with the XIM :D
There already is a licensed wired "controller" from Hori with built in touchpad. Will or has this been looked into?
http://xim4.com/community/index.php?topic=38729.msg486483#msg486483
Would be nice to finally be able to play Killzone.
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if its true, its just anohter reason to sell the ... PS4 = (Piece of Shat 4)
and buy an XB1
Shitbox One is worst.
Always great when conversation turns into a console war for no apparent reason, dontcha' think?
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I do agree that licensing XIM would be a GOOD thing. Beyond that, I prefer XB1 and I'm in America, so screw FX! I can't read German but from what you've described sounds like scare tactics to me. They can't out perform XIM so what other choice do they have? I bet there's never been a further gap in sales for these type of adapters as there is right now. XIM blows everyone out of the water and more and more people are finally coming to that realization. This just sounds like a last ditch effort on behalf of FX.
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It's nothing more than smart marketing strategy. They are paying the $$$ and this is a definite benefit. Kudos to them.
Those that haven't made up their mind on an adaptor can read that and say "oh, ok, looks like this is where my money should go since I don't want a paperweight". Most folks don't comb the forums, do research, etc. etc. etc.
That beind said, once they get it, get sick of fighting with it, and see the marketing was full of absolute shite, they'll eventually find their way here...
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no one is scared here the Xim will be deactivated. It's more a if the ****ty firm can do, why can't Obsiv?
(Aiken Edit: Do not circumvent the language filter.)
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no one is scared here the Xim will be deactivated. It's more a if the ****ty firm can do, why can't Obsiv?
no i play xbox one :P
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Sorry, but 'reckon' by itself the way it is portrayed here is not a very strong nor convincing argument on their behalf. Furthermore, it states 'weiterhin' as in nothing has changed, before or after their statement.
It was my intent to interpret their wording in English, and not deliver a word for word translation.
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no one is scared here the Xim will be deactivated. It's more a if the ****ty firm can do, why can't Obsiv?
Its more than embedding a chip, its about not being controlled.
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no one is scared here the Xim will be deactivated. It's more a if the ****ty firm can do, why can't Obsiv?
Its more than embedding a chip, its about not being controlled.
Freeedom! Stick to your guns OBsIV. You surely don't need Sony telling ya what to do and making money from your sweat.
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I dont think sony would go through all that trouble to disable the xim4 and single it out. The xim4 isn't seen as a foreign product to begin with, it authenticates the controller and just accepts the inputs from the controller plugin in
Its not like it sends foreign code back.
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I'm not worried at all.
Nothing in that article suggests Sony will actively try to disable other products.
Instead, I read this as Splitfish seems to possibly have an exclusivity deal... which is fine because all the products aren't asking for licensing nor do they need it.
This is just so a device can talk directly to PS4...which none of us need.
Nothing to see here... move along.
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me neither. Too many chicken little's up in here screaming that the sky is falling
There's no need for sony to single out xim as its not seen as anything strange that circumvents their system. Normal controller inputs. Still need to plugin a controller for authentication
if sony was concerned they would have reacted by now
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no one is scared here the Xim will be deactivated. It's more a if the ****ty firm can do, why can't Obsiv?
Its more than embedding a chip, its about not being controlled.
You are always controlled if they just want to. You are piggybacking a system and the pig can make you a hard time if it wants. You already wanted to license the XIM and it seems to me it was the time when it seemed not possible to connect the XIM with the PS4.
I understand you would put a circuit around that chip to be able to disable it as precaution by software update? Its not that there is a handcuffs distribution here. It would enable you to do things with the XIM that you seem not to be able to do or that would cost too much. Or why is there still no sound and touch support on the DS4? There would be some benefits like 8ms less lag, no controller for authentication necessary, true wireless, touchpad support, a free USB port.
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I see the point Roads is making and realistically he's not wrong.
Getting Sony's support for the DS4 and XIM4 is a win, at least for us the consumer.
I can also see why OBsIV may be reluctant, it will cost him more money.
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I don't think Sony would license a product that works on PS4 & Xbox, They would want OBsiV to make a separate XIM/PIM for PlayStation only :/
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as mentioned earlier in this topic, touchpad functionality would be nice to have :)
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Could also be interesting for the upcoming VR headset Morpheus from Sony, I assume that is how they got in. Someone has to explain to them there is better hardware to emulate the controller.
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also it would be another selling-point in which the XIM tops the competition, the other products dont allow touchpad functionality either i think
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Amount of sleep I will lose worrying about this: 0.00 hrs
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Its an oportunity imho.
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roads, as it was pointed out Hori came out with wired touchpad support -- that means we can too. We aren't going to put an audio jack on and ICs in XIM, so, you'd still have to have the controller plugged in. And what good is wireless support? Are you saying we should make XIM battery powered? I'm just not seeing the benefit here.
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That cable that cant be longer than 5m across my living room, that’s what Wifi would be good for. Id give it power from the other side of the room. Battery powered sure wont compute.
4pin jack and XIM audio solution? Why not? Spare us from the Mixamp quality and other cable chaos that the DSS brings. Id buy an audio enabled Xim.
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That cable that cant be longer than 5m across my living room, that’s what Wifi would be good for. Id give it power from the other side of the room. Battery powered sure wont compute.
4pin jack and XIM audio solution? Why not? Spare us from the Mixamp quality and other cable chaos that the DSS brings. Id buy an audio enabled Xim.
You are underestimating the complexity of audio and doing audio well (both in terms of ADC/DSP component selection quality and board layout). I'd rather not touch it because headset makers aren't going to be sure their analog devices work well with anything other than standard console controllers. And Xbox headset connections aren't standard. We are looking at the extension cable issue.
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blame ms for not using a standard 3.5 and making it proprietary so they can sell cheaply designed plastic pucks that they could overcharge for. ??? MS could have easily gone the standard way like sony and not moneygrub
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Extension cable should be something that you make and test working a 100%.
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Audio I do like the PS4 gold headset but for the One there is nothing I can use. I have enough of the cable clutter setups.
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roads: its simple, you just do it this way
obsiv: your underestimating how simple it is
roads: its super simple, just try it
^^
summary of most roads/obsiv interactions :)
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Extension cable should be something that you make and test working a 100%.
It is, and is something that is actively being worked on.
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That’s nice Obs.
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roads: its simple, you just do it this way
obsiv: your underestimating how simple it is
roads: its super simple, just try it
^^
summary of most roads/obsiv interactions :)
lol
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I don't think Sony would license a product that works on PS4 & Xbox, They would want OBsiV to make a separate XIM/PIM for PlayStation only :/
This would have been my comment, if not already made here. :P Sony's not going to have you putting their chip in a device that also has one from Microsoft.
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But it doesn’t have one from Microsoft.
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But it doesn’t have one from Microsoft.
In other words, Sony won't let us sell a cross console product with Sony branding on it. It would have to be a different SKU.
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Not sure about that, is that the case with the splitfish? If its chipped by Microsoft also that would not work but even then I am not sure about it. Really depends on the contract which you haven't seen so far. Its licensing and nothing about exclusivity. If logitech would license a mouse, you think it would be not working on PC? I doubt it wont.
Even if you have to make the Xim console specific, then good for you, you sell more XIM5. If there are some real benefits the user base will accept it.
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Splitfish don't have anything announced for X1 yet, only PS4 specific peripherals..... So maybe they are trying to get a license from Microsoft too?
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Is this really happening for XIM4?!? If it is, then i might say bye bye to my FPS gaming career. Why would splitfish do this to PS4 only? Should I get an XBOX One to use xim4 with now then? Tell me, splitfish can't be serious about this?
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Is this really happening for XIM4?!? If it is, then i might say bye bye to my FPS gaming career. Why would splitfish do this to PS4 only? Should I get an XBOX One to use xim4 with now then? Tell me, splitfish can't be serious about this?
It looks like the topic title is starting to mislead people. The translated text appears to be marketing talk. It would be very difficult to disable XIM as it's a passthrough. That said Obsiv has mentioned that if that ever were to happen he would do everything he can to re-enable support.
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ok, thanks for that info, i read the article at splitfish site myself and it wasn't translated well enough in my language :)
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Sony would be in breach if the code were disabled, if this "news" is by sf they want buzz.
This will be interesting to see if sony licenses a rapid fire mouse emulator, if so I see them losing fans. Was split fish one actually licensed back in 07?
"Edit" heard they never had licensing on ps3.
I just don't see it but good luck to them.
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It looks like the topic title is starting to mislead people.
Agreed, I changed it.
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Been using xim for years I do not see this happening it's nothing more then a way to fool the sheeple into buying an inferior product because they can't compete with the xim of old let alone the xim of today! Sad scare tactic for people on the fence of what product to buy so when they read the product pages they see the licensing and then have no fear of being banned for cheating or disabled ect... even though it's false and misleading. I remember when I was looking into adapters though that it's hard to know what's good and not but I know I took that split fish device back the same day such a turd.
I think we need to educate People though so they can buy right the 1st time.
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Hey obsiv is it even possible for them to disable the xim? Isnt it a passthrough device so all they see is the controller? Im assuming if they do find detection methods that we may have a couple options 1 firmware updates to bypass it and 2 acquire a sony licens yourself. Not sure the cost of option 2 or how it would effect the consumers price of product.
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lol So one random line of text and everyone is convinced the xim is going to be obsolete? I'd wait for something more solid before freaking out.
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I don't trust anything that Splitfish says. They are a bunch of liars and they make a crappy product. They pad their reviews to cover up the shoddy quality and then make claims that are blatant lies. That being the case.... I wouldn't put it past them to lie about the licensing just so they could use the scare tactic of "others may be disabled" to get more business.
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Sigh this yet again????
beginning to think people are dragging this b.s rumor up for trolling purposes. This is chicken little yelling the sky is falling paranoia. Splitfish has no credibility in this matter, until you hear it from sony or ms that th is was approved this is just annoying heresay and scare mongering
Xim has been around for a long time and sony and ms are WELL AWARE of xim's existence. Its pretty safe to say its pretty much defacto accepted by them its use otherwise they'd have taken action against its use. It doesn't tamper with the network in anyway, all it does is take a plugged in authenticated controller and feed back the same @#$% inputs from a m/kb
obsiv just post this as a stickie and discourage idiots bringing this up