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Miscellaneous => Downloads => XIM EDGE => Legacy Devices => Release Candidates => Topic started by: OBsIV on 11:42 PM - 11/22/13

Title: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 11:42 PM - 11/22/13
As you know, we are working hard on XIM4 and the open XIM4 beta for Edge users. We are still early on getting PS4 to work, however, we've discovered something that we wanted to get the community involved in early.

As far as we can tell so far, there is no wired mode for PS4 Dualshock 4 controllers.

Did you know that you could connect your DS4 wirelessly to your PS4 and then plug it wired to a PC (where it'll show up as a joystick) at the same time? Then, if you press buttons or move the sticks, it'll show up on *both* your PS4 and PC! PS4 appears to be always use BT communication over wired.

Obviously, we need wired mode. If anyone comes across any information online about this, please let us know.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: colb on 11:54 PM - 11/22/13
This is not good news. :(
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 11:57 PM - 11/22/13
Someone in chat brought up 3rd parties. There has to be a 3rd party controller coming that will be wired only.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 12:09 AM - 11/23/13
May take awhile unfortunately.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: tuffrabit on 12:13 AM - 11/23/13
That would mean that everybody would have to buy a 3rd party PS4 controller.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: glenn37216 on 12:55 AM - 11/23/13



I've seen people use a DS4 controller on a 360 using this:   thing http://www.cronusdevice.com/

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/169660-ps4-dualshock-4-controller-is-compatible-with-the-xbox-360-xbox-one-next

Probably a long shot  but would this usb device be of any help ?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 01:02 AM - 11/23/13
I brought up that too, ds4 working on ps3/360. It doesn't matter because the PS4 only sees it over bluetooth. :( Unless they find a way to support it wirelessly without spoofing we might have to wait for 3rd party controllers.


That would mean that everybody would have to buy a 3rd party PS4 controller.

Let's hope that when they start supporting 3rd party controllers they change the radio behavior for all controllers to shut down when plugged in, not just 3rd party.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:05 AM - 11/23/13
Obsiv why do you need a wired mode?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:14 AM - 11/23/13
What about the sony stick doesnít it generate the desired wired mode? But I am sure you tested this already.
This news pretty much hit me like a shockwave.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: He4DHuNt3r on 01:16 AM - 11/23/13
Couldn't you authenticate by pairing the DS4 with the Bluetooth adapter as a temporary solution?

DS4 > BT Adapter > EDGE
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 01:19 AM - 11/23/13
What's strange to me is I was under the impression that wireless isn't possible/undesired at tournaments/trade-shows, etc.

The controller talks to the PS4 *both* wired and wirelessly when plugged in. It's just that the console is choosing to ignore the wired com completely. XIM works fine with a DS4 attached if it's connected to a PC instead of a PS4.

Yes, we can look at wireless BT com instead, however, the amount of work involved is unknown and it's also not known if this could work. We'd like to avoid it if possible, of course.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:22 AM - 11/23/13
What if you stop the controllers wireless activity? or shield it or have a repeater cable that gets it out of range? Its weird but maybe worth a test what happens.It might use the wired mode. Or tamper with the DS4 so it looses the wireless capability.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 01:38 AM - 11/23/13
We thought of that. We don't have the right materials we'd need to do that experiment. A DS4 in a stainless steel container still has at least a 12m range when we tried that. As soon as it was out of range, it disconnected.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:53 AM - 11/23/13
We thought of that. We don't have the right materials we'd need to do that experiment. A DS4 in a stainless steel container still has at least a 12m range when we tried that. As soon as it was out of range, it disconnected.


I have a leded room here (xray) but I will get the PS3 earliest on Wednesday or friday. It wont penetrate leded brick wall.

what about going over the PC and mimicking a wired DS4 controller until a wired one comes out?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 01:57 AM - 11/23/13
I hope you guys can figure something out. Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:58 AM - 11/23/13
We thought of that. We don't have the right materials we'd need to do that experiment. A DS4 in a stainless steel container still has at least a 12m range when we tried that. As soon as it was out of range, it disconnected.

was it corded testing this?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mikael on 02:01 AM - 11/23/13
wait , this is only an issue for getting us edge users in the beta or is it also an issue for you to make a xim4?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:04 AM - 11/23/13
its an issue to make the XIM4 for the PS4
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 02:06 AM - 11/23/13
@#$% that's crazy.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 02:08 AM - 11/23/13
We thought of that. We don't have the right materials we'd need to do that experiment. A DS4 in a stainless steel container still has at least a 12m range when we tried that. As soon as it was out of range, it disconnected.

was it corded testing this?

No.

We didn't want to have to go there, but, it could be that we may need to go down the Bluetooth route. We can't really understand Sony's motivation on this one. We will investigate, but, as stated, if anyone sees anything out there about this particular issue (PS4 only talking wireless), please post to this thread.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:08 AM - 11/23/13
Obsiv even if a lot of work the BT comm with the PS4 would be awesome for sofa gaming. Just saying even if not helping right now.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mikael on 02:09 AM - 11/23/13
noooo , dont tell me ill have to go xbone because of this. that would suck badly.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:10 AM - 11/23/13
I still say and sacrifice a DS4 by incapacitating its BT capability and using it wired. Maybe it starts talking. :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:11 AM - 11/23/13
noooo , dont tell me ill have to go xbone because of this. that would suck badly.

That was what I was thinking also. I fear Obsiv will not bother with this for long at least for the beta.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:23 AM - 11/23/13
It may be that the DS4 solely talks wired to be able to talk to PC.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Lunchbox on 02:23 AM - 11/23/13
so if Sony doesn't fix this or third party wired controllers never come out there's  is no chance of a XIM coming to PS4 ?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:26 AM - 11/23/13
No he said a complete wireless XIM is MAYBE possible. That would also mean the XIM4 needs a power cord and maybe XIM pcb redesign.

Just ordered a ONE just to be sure. *sigh* this is bad.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 02:28 AM - 11/23/13
Would Sony themselves ever release a wired controller?

Or by this point in time on Next Gen everything released is going to be wireless?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 02:33 AM - 11/23/13
Sony isn't letting a lot of devices connect to the PS4 with a wired connection. it's a shock to see that they even did this with the DS4 as well.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 02:35 AM - 11/23/13
Did you guys get to test the X1 with XIM EDGE?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mikael on 02:37 AM - 11/23/13
yeah does the xbox one work atleast?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:37 AM - 11/23/13
Quote
Would Sony themselves ever release a wired controller?

No why should they? it is a fake wired when connected it seems.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:37 AM - 11/23/13
yeah does the xbox one work atleast?

Obsiv that would be important information.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 02:40 AM - 11/23/13
We aren't going to stop trying to make this work. The reason for the thead was to get the community on the look out for any info about this issue.

The good news is that the controller is BT and so are we. We just wanted to be done with this part of things right now. It just means PS4 support is going to take longer (unless you find out something that helps accelerate it).

We are investigating Xbox One right now. The controller looks very "standard" and well implemented from a USB protocol perspective. Another nice thing is that the console is whisper-quiet (which I appreciate enough to call out).
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 02:42 AM - 11/23/13
If we have to go BT instead of wired on the PS4 then so be it.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 02:45 AM - 11/23/13
Sony would be the company to do something like this I mean they got HDCP enabled on the console.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:46 AM - 11/23/13
BT PS4 to XIM4 would be great if there is no lag added. No cable through the living room is awesome. True cordless..wow, a dream.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mikael on 02:47 AM - 11/23/13
wireless = lag :(
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:56 AM - 11/23/13
Ds4 does not seem to have lag
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 02:58 AM - 11/23/13
Its a controller, you won't perceive the difference the same as you would with a mouse. BT should be the last resort.

I can't find anyone talking about it online. We should bug yosp.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 03:06 AM - 11/23/13
Still don't understand why they wouldn't have a true wired mode for the most hardcore. They even increased the USB poll rate to 250Hz (whereas it was 100Hz on PS3). I'm uncertain why they'd do that if there was no plan to use it on the console.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 03:08 AM - 11/23/13
maybe as 250hz is the basic mouse talking speed?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 03:13 AM - 11/23/13
I thought going BT would have been easy being that you guys got the PS Nav controller to work. I figured all that was needed was for a new script to be created to make PS4 work with XIM EDGE.

Still don't understand why they wouldn't have a true wired mode for the most hardcore.

Maybe a defense mechanism built for XIM.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 03:21 AM - 11/23/13
Its a controller, you won't perceive the difference the same as you would with a mouse. BT should be the last resort.

I can't find anyone talking about it online. We should bug yosp.
+1 on both, i don't have twitter though -.-'


Still don't understand why they wouldn't have a true wired mode for the most hardcore. They even increased the USB poll rate to 250Hz (whereas it was 100Hz on PS3). I'm uncertain why they'd do that if there was no plan to use it on the console.

they intended the controller to be a viable option for PC gaming so that PS4 owners that also game on PC can transition seamlessly, thus pushing their ecosystem.


i suspect they went with a solution very akin to your own: shielding the PS4 from wired input to clear a lot of possible scenarios where things could go wrong, and leaving the "worlds" separate by having the controller work wired on PC.

this is also a move against piracy btw. i see it as completely using a nuke against a fly but what can we say more *sigh*


also OBsIV don't be too hang up on wired 3rd partys. not saying we won't see any, but it's not going to be like PS3 days.

also i deem it likely that they really didn't think about tournament/shows situation. i'd like to get my hands on a dev kit to test if it's still all the same. not gonna happen though.



i'll try to find any info that comes up about this issue but i doubt we will see anything soon, no one can predict that though.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 03:25 AM - 11/23/13
i got to point to the elephant in the room though.. don't you think it's time you at least try and talk to Sony (and MS) directly? maybe an official licence and if not that (money issues i suspect) at least some direct info from the horses mouth? it will take time but i think they might listen to you and they might help you.
Title: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 05:11 AM - 11/23/13
bad idea
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 05:53 AM - 11/23/13
Just bought a ONE because of the news. That is how much I love the XIM. Seems I will have both consoles after all.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 06:07 AM - 11/23/13
That is not cool news indeed. Thats exactly how the Wireless Xbox360 controller acted when you connected it with the play&charge cable to the xbox. It would not use USB, but Wireless instead to communicated with the console.

Only the real cable controller worked via USB.

Lets hope Sony fixes it sometime in the future, if not I guess bluetooth will be the only option.

However if you can release the beta with the bluetooth support for XIM->PS4, it would be appreciated anyhow.

Bluetooth might introduce some minimal lag, however it should be very minimal and barely noticable.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 06:10 AM - 11/23/13
bad idea
why?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Wurstwasser on 06:13 AM - 11/23/13
Anyone tried the DIY XBOX 360 -> PS4 adapter with teens3.0/usb host shield? It should emulate a DS4 controller (wired only) and if it works on PS4 the XIM could also emulate a DS4 without having a real one plugged in?

I will test this when my PS4 arrives next friday/saturday.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 06:36 AM - 11/23/13
It seems it will not work Wurstwasser, the PS4 will look for the BT signal and will not find it.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Wurstwasser on 06:48 AM - 11/23/13
OK, i thought the ps4 only prefers the bluetooth connection over the cable. So a wired connection is not possible at all?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 07:03 AM - 11/23/13
Just make sure that the xim connects via Bluetooth at first. Its better than nothing.

Then you can take all the time u need to figure out other ways, to get the xim to connect with ps4 via USB. Sooner or later there will be a 3rd party controller or joystick that only works via wire, thats when you will get your alternative ways to  connect xim via wire.

Team executer cracked the PS4 bluetooth protocol, according to them, and now you can use the PS4 controller on the Xbox 360 (with cronusmax+bluetooth adapter).

So I guess wireless option should be possible for the xim to connect to PS4.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joker76 on 07:42 AM - 11/23/13
Sounds like good news for us Xbox folks. I have my new (used) XIME awaiting instructions on which hub + BT dongle to buy.

Tried playing Ghosts with a controller and it made me motion sick.  :o
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: saint72 on 07:58 AM - 11/23/13
Gutted  :(I  Hope this mean PS4 doesn't get left behind like the old Xim days when only xbox is supported.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 08:10 AM - 11/23/13
Yeah, not good! Just bought ghost and BF4 on PS4. Sigh... wasn't even planning on buying an Xbone in the near future.

OBsIV, please let us know ASAP if the Xbone will work.

Also TUACT is claiming that thier next devise will work with the PS4 and XB1. Not to say it's a legit claim but they've made that statement. Don't know if it's wireless or not but shows signs that there's a way to make it happen.

Quote
- 5 system compatibility we support PS3, Xbox360, PS4, Xbox One and PC.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 08:21 AM - 11/23/13
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/11/18/ps4-dualshock-4-on-pc-how-to-make-it-work/
May help you out
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 08:42 AM - 11/23/13
Probably won't help but but here's a strange comment from Yoshida about the DS4.

Quote
According to a previous statement, gamers won't be able to turn off that light, but Yoshida has clarified things on Twitter, confirming that game developers will be able to turn off or manipulate the DualShock 4's light bar.

Yoshida didn't elaborate, so it's going to be interesting to see what PS4 game developers can do with the controller.

If developers can "manipulate" the light bar, what else can be manipulated!?

http://news.softpedia.com/news/PlayStation-4-Game-Developers-Can-Turn-Off-DualShock-4-Light-Bar-366717.shtml
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 08:45 AM - 11/23/13
I say break the Bluetooth connection in the controller. Physically BREAK it. Then try it out.
What's the latency of Bluetooth. I hear ps4 is only Bluetooth 2.1 ( don't quote me on that)
Would that mean best case scenario is 3 ms latency or would it be nearer 6ms. Also does latency increase with audio input. 100 ms would be just silly if audio plays through the controller?
I know nothing about this Bluetooth malarkey so I'm probably way off
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 09:08 AM - 11/23/13
I agree, disable the BT connection in the controller. This will verify if the PS4 is capable of communicating wired only. We already know the DS4 is capable, as it communicates with the PS3 and the computer wired.

I know it's not an ideal solution, but I would mod my controller in a sec. to disable the BT if that's what it takes as I'm sure 99% of the community would also.

Although BT connection for XIM4 would be awesome but only without an obvious input delay.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 09:13 AM - 11/23/13
Yeah suggested tampering it.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 09:13 AM - 11/23/13
The controller doesnt seem to be the actual problem but the way how ps4 handles it. the ps4 still wants to communicate wirelessly with it. There are several advantages to that from manufacturers POV. BUt also disadvantages.

I say sooner or later a 3rd party controller will apear that is wired and thats when the problem is solved, at latest.

Other than that, making xim connect to the ps4 via Bluetooth wouldnt be a huge disadvantage. It shouldnt have more than 16ms input lag. Which is sorta acceptable still.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 09:19 AM - 11/23/13
Suppose this is gonna leave me more time to save for ps4 and games. Xim4 is first on my list.
16 ms would be too much. Surely it must be less. Anyway to test the latency?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 09:24 AM - 11/23/13
Probably won't help but but here's a strange comment from Yoshida about the DS4.

Quote
According to a previous statement, gamers won't be able to turn off that light, but Yoshida has clarified things on Twitter, confirming that game developers will be able to turn off or manipulate the DualShock 4's light bar.

Yoshida didn't elaborate, so it's going to be interesting to see what PS4 game developers can do with the controller.

If developers can "manipulate" the light bar, what else can be manipulated!?

http://news.softpedia.com/news/PlayStation-4-Game-Developers-Can-Turn-Off-DualShock-4-Light-Bar-366717.shtml

he means through the game. killzone makes the light red, some games will turn it off, uncharted i bet is going to make that lightbar match your HP (blu for 100%, red for low or some other dev) etc.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 09:31 AM - 11/23/13
Bluetooth should have less than 16ms, I just assume 16ms should be maximum delay, but likely it will be lower. And 16ms should still be in the green area.

XIM3 and I think edge had  exactly 16ms delay at one point and barely anyone noticed it, except for a few ppl.  Later on they reduced it to 8ms I think, with a firmware update.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 09:33 AM - 11/23/13
obsiv how about you emulate the controller for the console until a solution with controller is available?
sony isnt as strict as microsoft with third party devices, they wont ban it
also sony doesnt have the security chip that all xbox one devices need to have

why wait for a third party controller if you can turn the xim4 into one?
i also think this will just be a temporary problem, a firmware update for the PS4 will surely fix this



man i dont want to be forced to buy the crapbox, i really dont feel like giving microsoft money for such a product :( :(
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 09:37 AM - 11/23/13
Ugh...

Can't believe I didn't just follow my gut and stick with the Xbone.

Xbone + XIM > PS4 (no XIM or laggy wireless).

Hopefully Xbone pulls through, I will sell all my PS4 crap IMMEDIATELLY!!!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 09:42 AM - 11/23/13
Obsiv must make the decision if its worth doing the total bluetooth thing. XIM then needs power cord of course or if he says ONE now and wait for that wired controller and then PS4 support.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 09:45 AM - 11/23/13
Ugh...

Can't believe I didn't just follow my gut and stick with the Xbone.

Xbone + XIM > PS4 (no XIM or laggy wireless).

Hopefully Xbone pulls through, I will sell all my PS4 crap IMMEDIATELLY!!!

Why urge? We dont know precise info so far. There will be a solution one way or another, again its a question of time. And you can be assured that any smart company will wait with their adapter untill both consoles have optimal solution. Simply because this time PS4 will have a bigger installbase than XB1.

Neither company will let the PS4 install base slip through their fingers. Patience is the key, I know its hard but its the smartest thing to do right now, to be patient. Give it some time, the consoles are out for like 1 week still.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 09:54 AM - 11/23/13
Why? Because to be Honest I prefer M$ over SONY anyways!

Even if they are a bunch of Xboneheads!!

I pretty much had to FORCE myself to buy the PS4 because it is the "More powerful" system.

I was trying to be patient with the Xbone, knowing they will have a better system in 6+ months.

Now I have the Allmighty PS4 and once again it's going to collect dust just like my PS3 did. Unless OBs pulls one out of his hat!

Which is highly possible.

Ugh... My gut sank when I read this thread! But thank you OBs for telling us so soon.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 09:59 AM - 11/23/13
Well its your personal decision :) However its unwise to panic right now, just because 1 week after consoles release, devs didnt find a way to make it work via USB protocol.

Seriously, you know how the first thought/decision is usually the correct one.. I dont think u did anything wrong with the PS4, lets be honest here. Give this thing another week or two and we will have a great solution Im sure.

Theres really nothing to panic about right now. I know were all impatient, but you cant expect a perfectly working adapter after 1-2 weeks of consoles release. They need time for experimenting etc.

If you still want to sell your ps4, Im sure you will make profit of it, so it was no wrong decision to get it anyways.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 10:03 AM - 11/23/13
I'm not in a panic Santi. I'm more disappointed with myself then anything. I shouldn't have let my Xbone pre-order go back. I should've listened to my gut instead of the PS4 hype train!

Seriously, you know how the first thought/decision is usually the correct one..

Exactly! I didn't listen, or I would have an Xbone right now lol...

Anyways, back to topic please.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 10:09 AM - 11/23/13
Well no info is final still. So I guess you cant be dissapointed with yourself, YET ;) Heads up dude, Im sure there will be a great solution to this "problem".

Other than that- Im suprised that getting a ps4 was a hype train decision for you :)

For me it was a gut decision ever since they introduced hardware specs and game sharing plans.

But as you say b2t- the Cronus guys broke down the Bluetooth protocol of the PS4 really quick and its possible to use the ps4 controller with the xbox360 using a Bluetooth Dongle.

You best to assume that Obsiv will find ways to solve this small "problem".
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 10:11 AM - 11/23/13
at this point i think opening a topic regarding the issue on NeoGAF sounds like a good plan
you get lots of feedback from people with knowledge and more importantly, you get the word out into the world
people will tweed yosp and he will respond


someone should gather the current information into a short yet informative text and post it there
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 10:12 AM - 11/23/13
I was trying to be patient with the Xbone, knowing they will have a better system in 6+ months.

if you mean the news of a new xbone, it's just to fix the disc reading issues and other stuff. will be the same specs. Glenn said maybe kinect will be out so there's that, but that's it. (as far as news coverage goes.)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 10:13 AM - 11/23/13
at this point i think opening a topic regarding the issue on NeoGAF sounds like a good plan
you get lots of feedback from people with knowledge and more importantly, you get the word out into the world
people will tweed yosp and he will respond


someone should gather the current information into a short yet informative text and post it there

can't open threads there.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 10:16 AM - 11/23/13
 
Quote
We dont know precise info so far.

The info is very precise, the DS4 does not talk over cable. That is THE most important thing for the XIM. Its essential. XIM <> Console BT should be done anyways of course as its great for sofa gaming.
I am wondering if the Edge can take that code additionally. My guess is no and we will have the beta on the ONE only. The powering of the Edge could be done over a USB port as usual.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 10:21 AM - 11/23/13
The info is very precise, the DS4PS4 does not talk over cable.

fixed it for ya. the DS4 sends wire signals, but the PS4 doesn't care for it and just eats BT instead.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Wurstwasser on 10:31 AM - 11/23/13
Yep, no one tested it when there is no BT connection available(breaking it or emulating only the wired part of the DS4).
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 10:40 AM - 11/23/13
Its not the DS4 itís the PS4 awaiting BT signal. Good move from Sony no cables for the PS4 and no device they dont control.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 10:42 AM - 11/23/13
I just mean no Kinect AK, I have no urge to talk to my Xbox.

I will gladly break my DS4 controller to rid it of its BT capabilities at this point. I will also break my PS4 if there's no XIM lol...

or

Maybe send it to a PS4 fanboy to use as a suppository!

 ;)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 10:43 AM - 11/23/13
They should test how the rest of the devices talk, like the Sony Dildo which is supposed to work and couple of other stuff.

Also trying to emulate broken Bluetooth chip on the controller would be an idea. It might be a software problem after all, Im sure ps4 can talk via USB to the controller, but software guys forgot to think about this part. I mean PS4 a friggin PC after all, DS4 works with the PC via USB. Its a matter of a patch from sony.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mindworm22 on 10:44 AM - 11/23/13
Guys -

It's going to get figured out.  It's what OBsIV does.  Stop freaking out.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 10:49 AM - 11/23/13
 
Guys -

It's going to get figured out.  It's what OBsIV does.  Stop freaking out.

(http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/gif.gif)

Lol..

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 10:55 AM - 11/23/13
They should test how the rest of the devices talk, like the Sony Dildo which is supposed to work and couple of other stuff.

PSMove set is not an option. the Nav works wired and OB can test if the PS4 will eat it's wire feed or repeat the same ordeal as DS4, but the Nav only has half DS4.. so the PSMove would have to provide the other buttons and that is read by PS3/4 as another controller literally, they use 2 slots one for Nav and one for Move. so normal games without Move support would not support the XIM working like that. this is disregarding that the PSDildo doesn't have the right analog stick, thus being useless as that is what our mice output to the console via XIM.
it's moot.


each device has its own signature, PS4 has native kb&m support so we know 100% certain that the console gets wired input (https://support.us.playstation.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5087) from sources it deems valid. the thing is if DS4 signature is valid for USB input, apparently OB doesn't know that yet but he can test it if he wants too (albeit it takes time to do so)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: tuffrabit on 11:04 AM - 11/23/13
We know that the DS4 can do wired mode... the PC handles it just fine.  So, it's not a limitation of the hardware.  I'm guessing that when more competitive games hit they will do a sneaky competitive firmware update to the console and enable wired controller mode.  Having 20+ bluetooth devices in a small room would not make pros happy.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 11:05 AM - 11/23/13
agreed, as soon as MLG or razer decides to make a controller for the ps4 its when the problem will be solved, at LATEST.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 11:48 AM - 11/23/13
We know that the DS4 can do wired mode... the PC handles it just fine.  So, it's not a limitation of the hardware.  I'm guessing that when more competitive games hit they will do a sneaky competitive firmware update to the console and enable wired controller mode.  Having 20+ bluetooth devices in a small room would not make pros happy.

Unless Sony believes this isn't a problem for Bluetooth.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: tuffrabit on 12:05 PM - 11/23/13
Unless Sony believes this isn't a problem for Bluetooth.

Surly they can't though right?  Everybody with half a brain knows the EM spectrum has an upper saturation limit in small, already somewhat noisy, spaces.  Thermodynamics demands that there be a hard upper limit.  The Japanese are smart, they have to know this.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 12:09 PM - 11/23/13
Yeah, lets assume MLG will be using PS4s for their LAN events. Theres no way that 200+ bluetooth controllers will work flawlessly in 1 huge room.


At latest when we shouldl see DS4 usb support will be when things like this drop from Razer and MLG:

http://www.gamesharkstore.fr/Major_League_Gaming_Pro_Circuit_Controller_for_Xbox_360/5075/298

http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-controllers/razer-sabertooth
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 12:24 PM - 11/23/13
Just out of interest though-

could you figure out if the XBox One controller also runs at 250 Hz USB polling?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 12:34 PM - 11/23/13
Unless Sony believes this isn't a problem for Bluetooth.

Surly they can't though right?  Everybody with half a brain knows the EM spectrum has an upper saturation limit in small, already somewhat noisy, spaces.  Thermodynamics demands that there be a hard upper limit.  The Japanese are smart, they have to know this.

you are underestimating the capacity big firms have to overlook the obvious. seriously.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 12:40 PM - 11/23/13
i'm with od1n. just get this on NeoGaf, they will MELT upon realising PS4 can't do big tournaments and make an outcry to @yosp. Shuhei will get the HW team on it and next FW drop we get it solved. process shouldn't take much if the outcry is big. NeoGaf is now checked 24/7 by the industry. reporters for article material and scoops, devs and MS/Sony for feedback.

can you imagine part of your work responsibilities being checking an online forum for catastrophes to your employer? it has to be hilarious.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 12:58 PM - 11/23/13
In order to post it on neogaf it would make most sense, to have the testresults posted somewhere in an article or a review or something like that.

Right now its just hearsaying in a forum. (not to say that I dont believe when Obsiv claims something like that).

But it needs to be something more than just the original post from obsiv.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: tuffrabit on 01:13 PM - 11/23/13
Yeah... If OBsIV can do some official write up and post it somewhere, like his blog.  I could start talking about it on twitter.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 01:15 PM - 11/23/13
+1 to this^
Get it trending
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 01:19 PM - 11/23/13
yes obsiv give us some proper concrete proofs that arent too hard to understand and we can spread the word
would accelerate everything a lot tbh, we would also (most likely) get an official response from yoshida that way
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zacharybinx34 on 01:42 PM - 11/23/13
This is a terrible move by Sony, what are they thinking?

Doesn't wireless increase charge times as well?

I'm sure MLG isn't going to be happy about this.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 01:49 PM - 11/23/13
@OBsIV.  Her is a guide on taking the ps4 controller apart
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qWSqe33aiYI&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DqWSqe33aiYI

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:03 PM - 11/23/13
Obsiv please keep us posted about what you find.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 02:04 PM - 11/23/13
Lol. How do you use this twitter thingy ( grrrrr shakes fist ) hope I tweeted to the right place. Just asked why the ds4 controller doesn't transfer data to the ps4 over mini USB. Surely it will be bad for tournament play

Started a thread on Sony support forum
http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-4-Support/Ds4-controller-problem-Bluetooth-and-usb/td-p/42251599
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 02:34 PM - 11/23/13
Its very simple that anyone can do. The fact that you can have a DS4 connected to 2 hosts at the same time (PS4 wirelessly and PC wired) and it drives *both* at the same time.

As far as more details, we've watched XIM modify control input packets to the console and, in turn, the console ignoring it. Same test done on a PC, the PC doesn't ignore it. This was verified using our 100% pass though system (meaning we aren't emulating a controller and missing something in the com). There is another hobbyist that contacted me who was attempting DS4 emulation using a USB MCU. He found the same thing. Also, nothing from our competitors -- meaning they are likely running into the same thing.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 02:40 PM - 11/23/13
Started a thread
http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-4-Support/Ds4-controller-problem-Bluetooth-and-usb/td-p/42251599
Might get an answer
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:49 PM - 11/23/13
Maybe stupid Question, the USB port  on the  PS4 there is not something banal like an rx tx crossover?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 03:08 PM - 11/23/13
But the wireless option still remains, doesnt it?

The Cronus guys got the DS4 to work with the Xbox 360.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 03:11 PM - 11/23/13
Everyone who wants an answer please go to Sony forums.
Mist has chimed in there. Lets get this baby answered
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 03:18 PM - 11/23/13
But the wireless option still remains, doesnt it?

The Cronus guys got the DS4 to work with the Xbox 360.

Same reason why DS4 works on PC. The host (PC) listens to the wired com. PS4 is choosing to ignore it even though its there.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 03:28 PM - 11/23/13
I understand, but in theory its possible to connect a XIM with the PS4 wirelessly then over Bluetooth, doesnt it?

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 03:31 PM - 11/23/13
Ugh...

Can't believe I didn't just follow my gut and stick with the Xbone.

Xbone + XIM > PS4 (no XIM or laggy wireless).

Hopefully Xbone pulls through, I will sell all my PS4 crap IMMEDIATELLY!!!

i'm kicking myself in butt to bro.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 03:45 PM - 11/23/13
I understand, but in theory its possible to connect a XIM with the PS4 wirelessly then over Bluetooth, doesnt it?

Yes, its one of the options if wired isn't possible. Ideally wouldn't want to do that since you will feel lag over Bluetooth more with a gaming mouse than a controller. This is why you seldom see Bluetooth gaming mice.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 04:15 PM - 11/23/13
I understand, but in theory its possible to connect a XIM with the PS4 wirelessly then over Bluetooth, doesnt it?

Yes, its one of the options if wired isn't possible. Ideally wouldn't want to do that since you will feel lag over Bluetooth more with a gaming mouse than a controller. This is why you seldom see Bluetooth gaming mice.

Yeah, That's not really an option that I would want.

Please let us know ASAP if Xbone is a go.

Thank You!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 04:29 PM - 11/23/13
I understand, but in theory its possible to connect a XIM with the PS4 wirelessly then over Bluetooth, doesnt it?

Yes, its one of the options if wired isn't possible. Ideally wouldn't want to do that since you will feel lag over Bluetooth more with a gaming mouse than a controller. This is why you seldom see Bluetooth gaming mice.

if the controller works via bluetooth in 250hz mode with the console than the lag cannot be that bad, can it?
20-30ms additional lag aint a big dealbreaker imo, and it could bridge the time until sony takes notice of this
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 04:32 PM - 11/23/13
Have no idea what the sample rate is under Bluetooth. 250Hz is USB. They are separate.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 04:34 PM - 11/23/13
I understand, but in theory its possible to connect a XIM with the PS4 wirelessly then over Bluetooth, doesnt it?

Yes, its one of the options if wired isn't possible. Ideally wouldn't want to do that since you will feel lag over Bluetooth more with a gaming mouse than a controller. This is why you seldom see Bluetooth gaming mice.

if the controller works via bluetooth in 250hz mode with the console than the lag cannot be that bad, can it?
20-30ms additional lag aint a big dealbreaker imo, and it could bridge the time until sony takes notice of this
I was looking at the specs of Bluetooth 2.1 and latency cab be from 3ms - 100ms depending on what kind of data is being sent or received. Audio transmission seems to be worst case scenario when the ps4 plays sound through the controller latency could peak to 100 ms. Need to do some more research
Operates at 2.1 - 4Mbit/ s
Probably looking at 6 ms which is better than current gen
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/swrs101a/swrs101a.pdf
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 04:41 PM - 11/23/13
Honestly input lag would be noticable with the controller as well, not as bad as you would notice it with a mouse but still noticable.

A controller is designed in mind with fast response, same as gaming mice. 100ms input lag is out of question since starting with 60ms input lag, it would be really noticable. More realistic input lag with the ps4 controller would be 30ms or less.

As odin says, having bluetooth support for ps4 is better than no support at all. Let us betatest it and you will know if its an option or not for the final xim.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 04:46 PM - 11/23/13
so did anyone so far tweeted yoshida about the issue?
i dont have twitter

also the playstation support forum seems to be pretty empty, except for our members no one posted there
anyone wants to open up a NeoGAF topic?
if so definitely also highlight the consequences of this (LAN, competitons, lag,...)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 04:48 PM - 11/23/13
Only got iPad here atm. Twitter is awful on it never used twitter to tweet b4
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zombieguy on 04:56 PM - 11/23/13
Did anyone try breaking the bluetooth signal on the controller?  If not, I Will,

The DS4 works on the Xbone,  If the Xbone controller works on the PS4 and passes data through the cable as connected to a PS3 does for it to work, then it can work. Providing the Obsiv can get the Xbone working with the XIM!


Edited, Sorry I mean the 360.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 05:08 PM - 11/23/13
Did anyone try breaking the bluetooth signal on the controller?  If not, I Will,

The DS4 works on the Xbone,  If the Xbone controller works on the PS4 and passes data through the cable as connected to a PS3 does for it to work, then it can work. Providing the Obsiv can get the Xbone working with the XIM!
Hahahahaha ds4 works on xbone...sweeeeeet
Someone break the Bluetooth on ds4 and try on ya ps4..if it works its worth it
Does xbone controller work on ps4???????
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zombieguy on 05:55 PM - 11/23/13
So far what I know, Controller works with no battery and no touch pad!

(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/2294/vuqk.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/vuqk.jpg/)

http://www.ps3news.com/playstation-4-ps4-news/dualshock-4-ds4-playstation-4-ps4-controller-teardown-details/
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zombieguy on 06:19 PM - 11/23/13
Disabling the bluetooth does not work. The controller goes completely dead. I scratched the contacts to the antenna on the board. It completely disabled the controller. When I put power to it. it lights up then then dies. Even holding the PS button while wired to the PS4.

Good news is I don't have to put the controller back together and I have a spare battery:)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 06:30 PM - 11/23/13
Thanks for the sacrafice Zombie.

How disappointing!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 06:35 PM - 11/23/13
Disabling the bluetooth does not work. The controller goes completely dead. I scratched the contacts to the antenna on the board. It completely disabled the controller. When I put power to it. it lights up then then dies. Even holding the PS button while wired to the PS4.

Good news is I don't have to put the controller back together and I have a spare battery:)
You can repair the traces on the circuit board with a strand if wire and some solder
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zombieguy on 06:39 PM - 11/23/13
Thanks for the sacrafice Zombie.

How disappointing!

Better than a lamb:)

Disabling the bluetooth does not work. The controller goes completely dead. I scratched the contacts to the antenna on the board. It completely disabled the controller. When I put power to it. it lights up then then dies. Even holding the PS button while wired to the PS4.

Good news is I don't have to put the controller back together and I have a spare battery:)
You can repair the traces on the circuit board with a strand if wire and some solder

meh, Im too sad to care atm!

As said, Emulate the controller, bluetooth XIM or 3rd party controllers!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 06:42 PM - 11/23/13
Thx for takin a bullet zombieguy.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 06:46 PM - 11/23/13
zombie has taken one for the team. we salute you zombie.

can we get a medal to this man? or is this the world we want to live in, where sacrifices are made and not even acknowledge symbolically but an otherwise worthless token. this isn't what our ancestors and founding fathers dreamed of when the founded the foundation. this isn't the world the pilgrims went through heaven and hell to find no.. i say a medal is not nearly enough but it will do. because that's the kind of man zombie is, one who does things with no need of praise or glory..
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: glenn37216 on 06:49 PM - 11/23/13
 -We need a 3rd party manufacturing list for the PS3 controllers so we can start emailing them about production of their ps4 models.

Sent off a few emails already but have got no response in return.   :P

Emailed so far:

PDP -

Matcatz - They are the original DS4 controller partner with Sony , So I don't expect any variances of the DS4  controllers than what is officially available now. But I did ask them about "other" controller releases  .. like arcade sticks , joysticks , wheels , pads etc.

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zombieguy on 06:53 PM - 11/23/13
zombie has taken one for the team. we salute you zombie.

can we get a medal to this man? or is this the world we want to live in, where sacrifices are made and not even acknowledge symbolically but an otherwise worthless token. this isn't what our ancestors and founding fathers dreamed of when the founded the foundation. this isn't the world the pilgrims went through heaven and hell to find no.. i say a medal is not nearly enough but it will do. because that's the kind of man zombie is, one who does things with no need of praise or glory..


Imagine Obsiv sitting in his chair.. Saying " Hmm. I should have posted earlier I got the Beta working for the PS4"   (hypothetically speaking)

Lol
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 06:56 PM - 11/23/13
Imagine Obsiv sitting in his chair.. Saying " Hmm. I should have posted earlier I got the Beta working for the PS4"   (hypothetically speaking)

Lol

imagine him saying and i quote " MUAHAHAHAH " after that.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 06:59 PM - 11/23/13
Half price xim4 for zombie
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 07:08 PM - 11/23/13
Tracked down a 3rd party controller seen at e3 by angryjoe
Scroll down this page to view the pic
http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/does-anyone-know-of-a-third-party-ps4-controller-that-looks-like-an-xbox-controller.453112553/
Maybe OBSiV can get a pre production one to test

@ zombieguy. Have you tried bypassing the Bluetooth. See if you can mod it to bypass the Bluetooth.
Soldering iron and wire some wire should do it. Put a picture of the board up
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 07:28 PM - 11/23/13
Is this any help? Don't know if the guy has any idea what he's talking about.

Quote
PS3 still supports Third party controllers as long as they buy LEGAL controller chips. SCEI  Banned the Illegaly clone chips due to the flaw in the Cloned chips which allowed them to be banned.

Third party controllers for PS4 Will be licensed by SCEI.

So as long as they pay the license fee for the chips, Split fish and others will release the extra controllers that support the DS4 controller profile...

http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-General/Frag-FX-Shark-with-PS4/td-p/42167747

We be interesting to know if they actually work on the PS4 through their adapter (which would operate like a wired connection).

Lets not turn this into a flame war. The goal here is to understand who has successful connectivity to PS4 given that it appears to only communicate to the DS4 wirelessly.

This does seem to mean 'I think PS4 only communicates with the controller wirelessly but I'm not sure. Does anyone know if anyone else can make it work with a wired connection? I can't.'

Which in turn means.... PS4 order placed on hold. :)

Maybe the DS4 will always use wireless as the primary option but will default to wired if it can't get a wireless signal? So disable the wireless somehow and see what happens. Snip a wire somewhere, or cover up the transmitter with lead. :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 07:41 PM - 11/23/13
Lol. How do you use this twitter thingy ( grrrrr shakes fist ) hope I tweeted to the right place. Just asked why the ds4 controller doesn't transfer data to the ps4 over mini USB. Surely it will be bad for tournament play

Started a thread on Sony support forum
http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-4-Support/Ds4-controller-problem-Bluetooth-and-usb/td-p/42251599

I posted in the Sony support forum as well.

I also have a twitter account and can tweet him but I wouldn't know what it is exactly that you want me to write in the few words I'm allotted.

I can always copy/paste something you propose?

Unless Tuff does it, he has a twitter as well.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 07:45 PM - 11/23/13

Quote from: McNappa on Today at 02:04 PM
Lol. How do you use this twitter thingy ( grrrrr shakes fist ) hope I tweeted to the right place. Just asked why the ds4 controller doesn't transfer data to the ps4 over mini USB. Surely it will be bad for tournament play

Started a thread on Sony support forum
http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-4-Support/Ds4-controller-problem-Bluetooth-and-usb/td-p/42251599

I posted in the Sony support forum as well.

I also have a twitter account and can tweet him but I wouldn't know what it is exactly that you want me to write in the few words I'm allotted.

I can always copy/paste something you propose?

Unless Tuff does it, he has a twitter as well.

USE THIS\|/

why doesn't the ds4 controller transfer data through mini USB cable. Bluetooth will cause lag and problems with large tournaments?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 07:49 PM - 11/23/13
so did anyone so far tweeted yoshida about the issue?
i dont have twitter

also the playstation support forum seems to be pretty empty, except for our members no one posted there
anyone wants to open up a NeoGAF topic?
if so definitely also highlight the consequences of this (LAN, competitons, lag,...)

I have one and am about to.


EDIT: I just did.

(http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/ad263/Boltman35/tweetyosp_zps4582a151.png)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 08:08 PM - 11/23/13
so did anyone so far tweeted yoshida about the issue?
i dont have twitter

also the playstation support forum seems to be pretty empty, except for our members no one posted there
anyone wants to open up a NeoGAF topic?
if so definitely also highlight the consequences of this (LAN, competitons, lag,...)

I have one and am about to.


EDIT: I just did.

(http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/ad263/Boltman35/tweetyosp_zps4582a151.png)

"yosp how does it come that the PS4 only lets the DS4 work in wireless mode but not wired?"

thats what i would write, thanks a lot bolt!!!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 08:11 PM - 11/23/13
The more people that tweet him te better. Bombard him with the same question but worded different.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 08:12 PM - 11/23/13
The more people that tweet him te better. Bombard him with the same question but worded different.

i agree, if someone can give me a short twitter tutorial ill do it too :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 08:15 PM - 11/23/13
Create an account.
Use search symbol
Search for @yosp
Follow him
Top right there is a symbol with a pen and paper
Type
@yosp "insert tweet here without quotes"
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: glenn37216 on 08:26 PM - 11/23/13
The more people that tweet him te better. Bombard him with the same question but worded different.

I'm in ... lets get this rolling .  ;D

(http://i44.tinypic.com/wrgvt1.jpg)

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 08:47 PM - 11/23/13
thanks, ill be doing it in a second
if anyone gets a reply post as soon as possible :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 08:51 PM - 11/23/13
I've tweeted him four times today every few hours with no reply. Good to see reinforcements are coming.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 08:54 PM - 11/23/13
thanks, ill be doing it in a second
if anyone gets a reply post as soon as possible :)

Absolutely I will.

If I don't get a response eventually I'll ask him again but just word it as you suggested in an earlier post.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 08:56 PM - 11/23/13
ok, time to get a twatter. fu*k this rock was so comfy
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 09:42 PM - 11/23/13
Obsiv can Orbital quickly throw a BT together that just sends a simple command to the  PS4 and measure the lag? I think it is important to know the lag for the decision if you go BT or put the PS4 on hold hoping there is a wired controller in Q1 or Q2 2014. If the lag is 8ms then yes the BT wireless is even a sofa gaming feature, if its 30 then its unplayable with the XIM 8ms lag and the Monitor lag. We are quickly in the Kinect region.
Just dont forget to add a power plug for the XIM4 so BT to the PS4 is even possible.
When the decision is made you should quickly inform the users so they can cancel or change their nextgen order if they want.

Worst nextgen news overall and if we are unlucky we have a real  Xbox Input Machine again.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mindworm22 on 09:51 PM - 11/23/13
@OBsIV -

Did you check to see if it was on the 1.50 update or the shipping operating system before the updates to see if the PS4 did accept data over cable pre 1.51?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 10:03 PM - 11/23/13
@OBsIV -

Did you check to see if it was on the 1.50 update or the shipping operating system before the updates to see if the PS4 did accept data over cable pre 1.51?

Good question. It was tested before and after the update. Same behavior.

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 10:08 PM - 11/23/13
Any news on the XB1?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 10:13 PM - 11/23/13
So whats next Obs, whats the plan?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 10:25 PM - 11/23/13
I'm just curious if this was done on purpose. Will tweet yoshida.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 10:34 PM - 11/23/13
http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Console-Gaming/Will-there-be-a-Logitech-PS4-controller/td-p/1136493

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 11:38 PM - 11/23/13
If I may say this the whole community needs to be informed about this and the decision that is made very soon (PS4 BT with X lag or put on hold). People are paying a lot of money for the consoles and buying didgital game downloads they will not be able to sell if they change consoles. The XIM is a dealbreaker much more than 1080p60.

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 11:42 PM - 11/23/13
guys is there any limit to twitter spam ?

can i just question @yosp once a minute until he answers ? (new twitter acc blocked in 3..2...)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 12:13 AM - 11/24/13
If I may say this the whole community needs to be informed about this and the decision that is made very soon (PS4 BT with X lag or put on hold). People are paying a lot of money for the consoles and buying didgital game downloads they will not be able to sell if they change consoles. The XIM is a dealbreaker much more than 1080p60.
[/quoteI 

I agree although its already too late for me. My fault though for not being patient!

See my Avatar thats me right now!

Still no one truly knows what the future holds.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mikael on 12:33 AM - 11/24/13
today i sold my ps4.it was a heart breaking moment. posted on Craigslist and it literally sold in about 20 minutes
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 12:36 AM - 11/24/13
You make more than you paid?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 12:40 AM - 11/24/13
today i sold my ps4.it was a heart breaking moment. posted on Craigslist and it literally sold in about 20 minutes

been thinking about doing the same but i wait and see how this XIM EDGE beta turns out.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mikael on 12:43 AM - 11/24/13
yeah I bought it for 400  and sold for 550  with an open box
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 12:48 AM - 11/24/13
Nice mikael...

Obsiv, worst case scenario is ps4 support comes via pc? Or support via bluetooth? Just curious.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:53 AM - 11/24/13
Still not working wired. PC is not helping here.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 12:54 AM - 11/24/13
We are focusing on X1 now, completing wireless configuration, and then releasing the Beta. After that we will look at ways to approach this PS4 issue. So in the time being, PS4 is being deprioritized.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 12:56 AM - 11/24/13
Makes sense.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:00 AM - 11/24/13
good choice lets move on!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:02 AM - 11/24/13
I will post this in the general section people have to know. I think its important.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 01:05 AM - 11/24/13
I will post this in the general section people have to know. I think its important.

Tactfully please. I'd wait till you have a blessing actually, xim's competitors might spin it.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 01:08 AM - 11/24/13
At this point, we'd be happy to see a competitor solve it (just as I'm sure they are waiting to see if we solve it too).
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:13 AM - 11/24/13
I will post this in the general section people have to know. I think its important.

Tactfully please. I'd wait till you have a blessing actually, xim's competitors might spin it.

as always LOL just updated the INFO threads
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: XIBangBang on 04:00 AM - 11/24/13
We are focusing on X1 now, completing wireless configuration, and then releasing the Beta. After that we will look at ways to approach this PS4 issue. So in the time being, PS4 is being deprioritized.

BOoOoOoOOo
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Wurstwasser on 05:13 AM - 11/24/13
So just out of curiosity, is it even possible with XIM Edge and the Asus BT dongle to emulate the DS4 bluetooth controller or do we have to wait for XIM4?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 05:25 AM - 11/24/13
My understanding is he can emultae it fine the PS4 just gives a f.uck.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Wurstwasser on 05:29 AM - 11/24/13
Via bluetooth connection? I know that the PS4 ignores the wired one.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 05:37 AM - 11/24/13
Perhaps the place to go here is the official PS3 FAQs:

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2013/10/30/ps4-the-ultimate-faq-north-america/

Key bits:

Quote
Will PS3 peripherals such as fighting sticks and steering wheels work with PS4?
Generally speaking, no. However, at launch, users will be able to use these controllers if a specific game title allows it to be used within the game. This decision is upon the game developer and will vary from game to game.

What PS3 devices can I use with PS4?
Refer to the chart below:

PS3 peripherals and commercially available products compatible with PS4

Peripherals  Connection  Compatibility  Note 
PlayStation Move and its peripherals  Bluetooth  YES   
Controllers
(other than PS Move)  Bluetooth  NO   
 USB  NO  Not compatible, however publishers may decide to enable them on a title-by-title basis. 

Upcoming PS4 Peripherals

Peripherals  Connection  Compatible  Note 
Controllers  Bluetooth / USB  YES  Only Sony Computer Entertainment products and officially licensed products will be compatible with PS4. 
Headsets  Bluetooth only  YES   
Other Peripherals  Basically same as the above peripheral chart

So there is an explicit statement that third party USB controllers can be used on PS4 but only if they are officially licensed. Some googling shows that the Thrustmaster T500RS steering wheel is supported for the PS4 but is USB only. No Bluetooth. I checked the manual to be sure of this. In other words, the PS4 is capable of accepting controller signals through wired USB.

I can't find anything cheaper than the Thrustmaster at the moment. Evil Controllers have a PS4 controller license but they only seem to be selling standard DS4 controllers with different skins at the moment.

EDIT: Looking again, I don't think the T500RS is 'generically' supported by the PS4 - it's just that individual game developers have made the decision to support it in their PS4 games, as set out above. The conclusion that the PS4 is definitely capable of accepting wired input still stands. However, I can't find any product on the market at the moment giving a wired USB signal which the PS4 will always accept, as distinct from a wired signal which is only accepted because of a deliberate choice by the game developer to enable the device - although the FAQs clearly state that such products will be possible with Sony licensing.

An important point here is that developers can enable PS3 devices for their games if they want to but it seems that a Sony licensed PS4 controller will work irrespective of whether a game developer enables it or not.

Quote
What comes in the PS4 box at launch?
Youíll get a PS4 system with a 500GB hard drive, a DUALSHOCK 4 wireless controller, a micro-USB cable for charging the DUALSHOCK 4 controller

...additional DUALSHOCK 4 wireless controllers will retail for $59.99 (MSRP) each.


Seems from the bolded wording that there has been a deliberate decision by Sony to make the DS4 a wireless only controller. However, it's interesting that the DS4 sends wired signals down its cable but the PS4 doesn't listen - and, since the PS4 is capable of accepted wired USB controller signals, this is presumably deliberate.

If the PS4 is capable of accepting controller signals through USB, and the DS4 is capable of sending them, perhaps it's at least theoretically possible to mod the DS4 somehow so that it functions as a wired controller (although, on the other hand, maybe the DS4 simply isn't capable of sending a wired signal which the PS4 will accept, only a Bluetooth signal which it will accept).

In terms of XIM4 compatibility, maybe this means the following:

- It may be possible to make a wired XIM4 PS4 compatible by buying and plugging in an officially licensed wired controller.

- However, assuming it isn't possible to make DS4 function as a wired controller, this would require us to buy a Sony licensed third party product along with the XIM4. Query whether it would be cheaper/ better just for XIM to get its own Sony license.

- FragFX had a PS3 license - http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-General/Frag-FX-Shark-with-PS4/td-p/42167747 - and say on their Facebook page that they will be releasing a PS4 product in Q2 2014, which presumably means that they will get a PS4 license. If this is right, it seems Sony don't have any inherent objection to licensing M/KB controllers. I have no idea what getting a license entails but if it is right that FragFX can get one (and admittedly that post may be BS) I don't see why XIM couldn't. You'd expect there would be some time-consuming process to go through, though, and (obviously) cost. Any objection to M/KB will presumably come from game developers rather than from Sony - and, as set out above, a Sony license for a controller means that a game developer doesn't have to make a conscious decision to enable the product. It will work anyway.

- The conclusion from all this does seem to be 'get a license from Sony, if possible.' From the FAQs the deal very clearly seems to be that making an unlicensed controller work on PS4 will require some sort of non-authorised workaround, which Sony will not be happy with. It seems they are more likely to disapprove of unlicensed controllers than they are of M/KB controllers.

- If XIM4 does get a Sony license, presumably it will add a bit to the cost of the device. Query whether Xbone users (for whom the license isn't necessary) will be subsidising PS4 users, or whether there should be separate devices for Xbone and PS4.

Another interesting snippet:

Quote
Iíve heard that DUALSHOCK 4 features less ďlatencyĒ than other controllers. What does this mean?
All wireless devices experience some form of latency, a tiny delay between, say, pushing a button and seeing an action performed onscreen. Thanks to new technology and hardware optimizations, the DUALSHOCK 4 controllerís wireless connectivity experiences less latency overall than the PS3′s DUALSHOCK 3 controller.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 05:50 AM - 11/24/13
Also seems v unlikely that there will be any PS4 support of any description for the foreseeable future. Might just buy an Xbone. :(

Just to add - it seems from the above that the various requests/ queries to Sony may come up against a brick wall. The wireless thing seems to be deliberate. As regards the 'problems' with it - they say the DS4 has less input lag than the DS3 (don't know if they're comparing the wired DS3 here), and large LANs will be able to get round the Bluetooth issue by using third party wired controllers. The pro gamers all use Scuf controllers anyway and no doubt Scuf will release a wired product.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joey McCamper on 06:05 AM - 11/24/13
About to put my PS4 on Craigslist as Open Box.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 06:08 AM - 11/24/13
You might as well you'll probably make enough money to buy an xbone and profit.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joey McCamper on 06:13 AM - 11/24/13
You might as well you'll probably make enough money to buy an xbone and profit.

I have an X1 boxed up I haven't opened  ;D

I doubt I'll get more than 450-500 for it since I've used it for a week.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 06:19 AM - 11/24/13
Nice work PS3-UK, looking forward to Obsivs comment on this.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: willthetech on 06:51 AM - 11/24/13
Crap! I ordered a PS4, arriving December 3rd...and almost everyone i know in XBL are jumping ships to PSN this year.  :'(
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mindworm22 on 06:59 AM - 11/24/13
Great job PS3UK....
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roberb on 07:05 AM - 11/24/13
OK if Iím getting all this correct is that the DS4 will not work wired, Sony decision, but license products can be used wired and they will work. So we will need to buy a license controller for the Xim to work, I donít mind that as I cannot play with controller, my PS4 is still in the sealed box. Anybody has heard or read anything from license product manufacturers? I am sure they already have them in production and with black Friday and Christmas coming up they should be out soon.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 07:25 AM - 11/24/13
You might as well you'll probably make enough money to buy an xbone and profit.

I have an X1 boxed up I haven't opened  ;D

I doubt I'll get more than 450-500 for it since I've used it for a week.

IDK, atleast you can confirm that it isn't a DOA console! That's how I'm going to advertise mine. Yes, mine will be on Craigslist as well along with 3 games I just bought a couple days ago lol...

Does this SUCK or what. Still it's my fault and I don't blame OBs or anyone else.

I am disappointed that I let the PS4 hype get to me. That's the real kicker for me. I decided to go purely PS4 and let my XB1 go back inorder to give it a legit shot at winning me over. What happens? I get screwed by the guys that I didn't like to begin with.

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 07:28 AM - 11/24/13
so what about asking sony how much they want for the licence?
cant be that expensive considering fragfx had one too which is smaller than xim and still isnt bankrupt




another thing id like to adress

i dont like the approach to wait and see how the competition solves it
lets assume they solved it, what then?
they wont share their solution of couse, you will have to go the dirty route via re-engineering which isnt nice at all

also the customers will go to whatever company delivers first, its a reputation lose for xim and the quality they stand for
lets be honest, a xim360 with a good config on next gen (aka nest cronus device) does work acceptable with a good config
acceptable enough for most people at least, and thats what counts
(most people play CoD and even a xim1 can achieve almost pc quality there)


and while we re at it, if cronus really does the magic trick before you, you might as well prepare your lawyers now if they once again copy xim360
cause the userbase you will lose to them if they deliver first will harm you much more than they did within the current gen when you had all the aces in your hand
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 07:34 AM - 11/24/13
Od1n Obsiv does not want to do the BT work for a laggy something and then a wired controller comes out a week later.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 07:47 AM - 11/24/13
but how can it be laggy if the current official PS4 controller is using BT too?
wouldnt there be plenty of complaints already from people playing with such a laggy controller?

setup a CRT and solder a button on the DS4 pcb that you can activate electronically
activate and see how big the lag is between activation and translation to the game

a controller player doesnt activate more than 5 buttons at once, cover that part too and measure the lag
i doubt itll be more than 20ms

worst case scenario, audio is played through the DS4 controller (voice chat or game audio like in killzone)
i doubt there is a case in which the BT has to cover a bigger bandwidth
still not one single complaint in that regard in any forum i read
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 07:48 AM - 11/24/13
Do we even have a guarantee that XIM4 will work with a licensed wired controller? We could wait three months for someone to produce one, plug it in and discover some nuance about the authentication system which means that this doesn't work either. That's three months wasted. And even if it did work, XIM customers would have to buy a third party controller, which would presumably be more expensive than adding the cost of an XIM specific licence to the XIM4 price.

I would suggest asking Sony about licensing straight away. The FAQs make very clear that they want their pound of flesh. At least see whether they're prepared to do it, what it involves and how many pounds of flesh they want. I don't see any harm in asking- there's no need to accept whatever they say. Might also sneakily be able to glean some information from whatever they come up with.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 07:50 AM - 11/24/13
I would suggest asking Sony about licensing straight away. The FAQs make very clear that they want their pound of flesh. At least see whether they're prepared to do it, what it involves and how many pounds of flesh they want. I don't see any harm in asking- there's no need to accept whatever they say.

i agree

asking doesnt cost a single dollar, information is key right now and giving up on the PS4 project totally until further infos are out seems like the wrong decision to me

also once you got the contact to sony they should also give you an answer for why its BT only right now
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 07:56 AM - 11/24/13
credits to pepsi

E3 wired PS4 controller
dunno how they handle the touchpad tbh

‹brigens, auf der E3 wurden schon wired Controller von diversen 3rd Party anbietern angeboten bzw. vorgestellt ;-)

(http://i.imgur.com/oSi1MMu.jpg)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 08:03 AM - 11/24/13
Thatís a PS3 controller so no credits. Asking them can wake sleeping dogs. Licensing means a more expensive XIM.

http://www.powera.com/FUS1ON
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zombieguy on 08:03 AM - 11/24/13
You don't need the touch pad for the controller to work. I did this yesterday by stripping my Controller down.

You can unplug the lead wire to the touch pad, and the DS4 still works, You can unplug the charge cable that is attached to the light bar and the controller still works via bluetooth.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 08:06 AM - 11/24/13
Its indestructible LOL
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: JerginsSoft on 08:09 AM - 11/24/13
Thatís a PS3 controller so no credits. Asking them can wake sleeping dogs. Licensing means a more expensive XIM.

http://www.powera.com/FUS1ON

I'll pay if that's what's needed... I bought a 3 and an edge, so its not an issue. I can understand how it would for a lot of people tho.

Still, what would it hurt to ask?

I'm still just really surprised that they would do something like that... so dumb.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 08:09 AM - 11/24/13
After a bit more googling...

http://www.thrustmaster.com/press/thrustmaster-unveils-first-official-wheel-playstation-4-t80-driveclub-edition

Quote
The first official wheel for PS4, the T80 - DRIVECLUB Edition is automatically recognized by the console. The wheel includes a number of special features, to let users get the most out of the PS4ís new functionalities: an official embedded firmware (allowing for automatic recognition of the wheel by the PS4), along with the official ďSHAREĒ, ďOPTIONSĒ and ďPSĒ buttons easily accessible right on the wheel

"Official embedded firmware." :)

This seems to be an example of a 'generically supported' PS4 controller, as opposed to the other Thrustmaster product (I think it was called the T500) which was a PS3 device which game developers had made a specific decision to enable, presumably in part because it's so expensive. Luckily, the T80 is nowhere near as pricey as the T500...

If approaching Sony straight away is unattractive then maybe buy a wired licensed device and see if the XIM can be made to work on PS4 with it. Failing that, either offer them their pound of flesh or don't support PS4 at all.

Some websites are already putting the T80 up for sale, although (i) I'm not sure if they'd ship straight away - I can't find an official release date, and (ii) I can't find specific confirmation that it's wired only.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zombieguy on 08:12 AM - 11/24/13
Its indestructible LOL

I have a project for you Roads:) How about using an old Logitech analog mouse/rollerball and wire it into the analog stick of the DS4:)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 08:26 AM - 11/24/13
Thatís a PS3 controller so no credits. Asking them can wake sleeping dogs. Licensing means a more expensive XIM.

http://www.powera.com/FUS1ON

I'll pay if that's what's needed... I bought a 3 and an edge, so its not an issue. I can understand how it would for a lot of people tho.

Still, what would it hurt to ask?

I'm still just really surprised that they would do something like that... so dumb.

Its not if you or I pay a higher price Jergin itís the XIM price that matters overall.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: TwistedDNA on 08:56 AM - 11/24/13
guys,

if i may sum up:

xbox one - xim edge beta firmware - no issues encountered yet.
ps4 - deprioritized due to bluetooth lag - no solution found via wired pc connectivity either.

xim edge beta firmware for xbox one to arrive soon (hopefully).

am i missing something?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: TheCityWok on 09:03 AM - 11/24/13
God damnit why did I impulse buy? Whatever back to ps3. Sony can suck the nut.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: JerginsSoft on 09:08 AM - 11/24/13
Thatís a PS3 controller so no credits. Asking them can wake sleeping dogs. Licensing means a more expensive XIM.

http://www.powera.com/FUS1ON

I'll pay if that's what's needed... I bought a 3 and an edge, so its not an issue. I can understand how it would for a lot of people tho.

Still, what would it hurt to ask?

I'm still just really surprised that they would do something like that... so dumb.

Its not if you or I pay a higher price Jergin itís the XIM price that matters overall.


True, but xim3 had no trouble doing brisk business as the most expensive alternative, either... so did the edge, for that matter! :D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 09:16 AM - 11/24/13
I can't believe people here are jumping the gun and sellin their ps4's so readily just cuz the ds4 doesn't currently work wired. Until the latency on the Bluetooth is measured it may be still very feasible to get it working over Bluetooth. Maybe it is best case scenario which is only 3-6 ms which is better than XIM at the moment which is 8ms because the 360 controller is 125 Hz. I say test it . Like Od1n said. If you put it on the back burner and a competitor is already offering a solution then your rep is gonna be hurt.
Sony should be easy for you to approach atm. They seem to be very helpful to devs. Don't want to buy an xbox one . The performance gap is too great for me. If ps4 is not supported I will not be gettin an xim4. Gonna wait it out and see what happens or at least wait till ps4 is supported.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 09:20 AM - 11/24/13
I find it funny how some ppl go crazy over their decision to buy the ps4.

So you are willing to accept a technically weaker console, just so you can use a keyboard and mouse a couple of months earlier?

Lets start with the fact that there is no fps game out there that is worth getting a kbm adapter right off the bat. Except BF4 maybe. And even then, BF4 is 1st: not everyones cup of tea and 2nd: not running near close to optimally.

What other game you care for now? COD? It has record all-time low player numbers online, considering its been out for 2 weeks. While beeing an ok game, it still needs alot of patching, especialyl in the spawn system department, connection improvement and few other things. More than anything its just boring right now. The way how ppl camp in corners and headglitch, it wasnt that bad in previous CODs.

So as said before COD is just boring atm, more than anything. I have confidence it will get better with patches, but I see no reason to panic about getting a KBM adapter as soon as possible.

A clanmate actually stated that on his bros Xbox One he still sees alot of host migrating and the connection is hit or miss. Also the online player numbers are insanely small. No surprise when even on 360 there are hardly ever more than 250k ppl playing it even on weekends.

I feel like all this panic is more artificial than anything else. Are you playing online multiplayers so much that you act crazy over not having an adapter? Sure some do, but most dont. But it is what it is, if you wanna give yourself a hard time over buying a ps4 instead of xb1, its whatever.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 09:23 AM - 11/24/13
Shock horror ^ we agree on something.  + 1000000
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 09:32 AM - 11/24/13
yeah thought the same after reading your comment   :D

I dont see a reason to panic and jump ship, simply because there is no great kick-a** FPS game out there that everyone wants to play. Me and my clan mates didnt play cod for almost 2 weeks now, im not even joking. Its not like we hate the game or anything, but its just boring right now, and we rather wait a couple of patches untill it makes more fun again and gets polished more.

So what should I be panicking for? Unless youre a hardcore Battlefield vet, I feel like there is no urge to get your hands on a KBM adapter for next gen console ASAP. The population is really small on next gen as expected, on my FL only 2-3 guys play on Xbone right now out of 60-70.

I feel no urge for an adapter on next gen. After all, when we play with a controller for a couple of months, we will start appreciating a solid KBM adapter again at fullest.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joey McCamper on 09:33 AM - 11/24/13
I just put it on Craigslist. Doubt anyone will contact me to purchase it. I'm doing alright with a controller. The thing I really need is a squad to play with :p.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joey McCamper on 09:35 AM - 11/24/13

I feel no urge for an adapter on next gen. After all, when we play with a controller for a couple of months, we will start appreciating a solid KBM adapter again at fullest.

Agree 100%.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 09:35 AM - 11/24/13
I can't believe people here are jumping the gun and sellin their ps4's so readily just cuz the ds4 doesn't currently work wired. Until the latency on the Bluetooth is measured it may be still very feasible to get it working over Bluetooth. Maybe it is best case scenario which is only 3-6 ms which is better than XIM at the moment which is 8ms because the 360 controller is 125 Hz. I say test it . Like Od1n said. If you put it on the back burner and a competitor is already offering a solution then your rep is gonna be hurt.
Sony should be easy for you to approach atm. They seem to be very helpful to devs. Don't want to buy an xbox one . The performance gap is too great for me. If ps4 is not supported I will not be gettin an xim4. Gonna wait it out and see what happens or at least wait till ps4 is supported.



I find it funny how some ppl go crazy over their decision to buy the ps4.

So you are willing to accept a technically weaker console, just so you can use a keyboard and mouse a couple of months earlier?

Lets start with the fact that there is no fps game out there that is worth getting a kbm adapter right off the bat. Except BF4 maybe. And even then, BF4 is 1st: not everyones cup of tea and 2nd: not running near close to optimally.

What other game you care for now? COD? It has record all-time low player numbers online, considering its been out for 2 weeks. While beeing an ok game, it still needs alot of patching, especialyl in the spawn system department, connection improvement and few other things. More than anything its just boring right now. The way how ppl camp in corners and headglitch, it wasnt that bad in previous CODs.

So as said before COD is just boring atm, more than anything. I have confidence it will get better with patches, but I see no reason to panic about getting a KBM adapter as soon as possible.

A clanmate actually stated that on his bros Xbox One he still sees alot of host migrating and the connection is hit or miss. Also the online player numbers are insanely small. No surprise when even on 360 there are hardly ever more than 250k ppl playing it even on weekends.

I feel like all this panic is more artificial than anything else. Are you playing online multiplayers so much that you act crazy over not having an adapter? Sure some do, but most dont. But it is what it is, if you wanna give yourself a hard time over buying a ps4 instead of xb1, its whatever.

I agree with both of you, I am not settling for an Xbox One because of the performance gap.

I'll sit tight until a solution arises for the PS4, in the meantime I'm doing just fine playing BF4 with the DS4.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 09:48 AM - 11/24/13
Out of my 100 friends on XBL 3 have xbox one. The rest are waitin till next year to decide and and all the ones I regularly speak to such as clan mates will be goin ps4 . Cheaper. More powerful. The games you get free from PSN+ pay for the console. Don't jump the gun. Stick with whichever console u bought.  If you just jump the gun it isn't really gonna give the incentive to OB to add ps4 support  xim3>edge if everyone goes hey lets just get xbones so we can use m/kb. How pissed would you be if xim4 came out with xbone support then 6 months down the line you get xim5 with xbone and ps4 support. Would you then want to sell back ya xbone at a loss and get a ps4 and XIM5... I think not. DON'T BE RASH
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mikael on 09:56 AM - 11/24/13
i don't like the fact that i have to go xbone at all trust me , but i just cant play fps with a controller to save my life.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zombieguy on 10:01 AM - 11/24/13
i don't like the fact that i have to go xbone at all trust me , but i just cant play fps with a controller to save my life.

My friends and my entire clan is on PS4. Even if the XIM worked on the XBOX and never on the PS4 I still wouldn't buy an Xbox. Only 2 choice then, go back to PC or just learn the controller.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: JerginsSoft on 10:01 AM - 11/24/13
Don't get me wrong, I'm still gonna buy a ps4. There are great games coming that won't require a xim, and I do want what *I* consider a better console. If I have to use a controller for shooters, I'll either just man up and do it, or stick to pc for now.

Hell, the only shooter I wanna play doesn't even work on pc yet, and its been out for almost a month!

I wish premium was transferrable between platforms, cause honestly, I really think I wasted a lot of money on something that just won't run, no matter what I do. I'd love to play ps4 for nothing other than a more stable experience... mouse or no mouse!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 10:02 AM - 11/24/13
yeah for hardcore fps gamers it might make sense, but everyone else.. If you dont play that much online anyways, you can might as well wait a couple of months to get the best experience.

If they get it to work over USB, 250 Hz polling is a nice improvement that DS4 introduces. Its yet to wait and see if the boner controller has also 250 Hz polling.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 10:16 AM - 11/24/13
i don't like the fact that i have to go xbone at all trust me , but i just cant play fps with a controller to save my life.

My friends and my entire clan is on PS4. Even if the XIM worked on the XBOX and never on the PS4 I still wouldn't buy an Xbox. Only 2 choice then, go back to PC or just learn the controller.

You'll be just fine with the controller with a little game time, I just threw on these old rubberized extended stick covers on my DS4 and I've been playing decent with them.

(http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/ad263/Boltman35/DS4sticks_zps49c1aabb.jpg)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 10:26 AM - 11/24/13
guys,

if i may sum up:

xbox one - xim edge beta firmware - no issues encountered yet.
ps4 - deprioritized due to bluetooth lag - no solution found via wired pc connectivity either.

xim edge beta firmware for xbox one to arrive soon (hopefully).

am i missing something?

Sony say that lag isn't an issue with the DS4. They say it has lower latency than the DS3 (not clear whether this means lower latency than the DS3 wired, or just lower than DS3 wireless). As I understand it, the problem isn't the lag - the problem is the fact that the DS4 only uses wireless makes it difficult for XIM4 to work on it.

At the same time, the PS4 situation isn't hopeless by any means. The Sony official FAQs say that licensed wired devices will be supported by PS4. The problem is that the DS4 itself isn't a licensed wired device. So OBsIV hasn't yet had a chance to plug in a licensed wired device and see if it works.

Here is an officially licensed device which Dabs.com says is 'wired' in the spec section (and, as I understand it, most racing wheels connect via USB rather than Bluetooth). Should be available to buy soon although I'm not sure if you can buy one immediately.

http://www.dabs.com/products/thrustmaster-t80-rs-driveclub-edition-racing-wheel---ps4-pc-91Y2.html?src=17

Maybe someone could buy one of these, plug it into the Edge or XIM3 together with a mouse and see what happens? Even if it doesn't work, you'll have a lovely, PS4 compatible racing wheel. :)

I'd recommend checking with Thrustmaster that it doesn't have any Bluetooth connectivity first, though...
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joey McCamper on 10:28 AM - 11/24/13
Also, thanks Zombie for biting the bullet.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 10:29 AM - 11/24/13
I am sure Obsiv will buy that racing wheel. If it registers as controller it may be just what he needs and the problem is solved.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zombieguy on 10:30 AM - 11/24/13
i don't like the fact that i have to go xbone at all trust me , but i just cant play fps with a controller to save my life.

My friends and my entire clan is on PS4. Even if the XIM worked on the XBOX and never on the PS4 I still wouldn't buy an Xbox. Only 2 choice then, go back to PC or just learn the controller.

You'll be just fine with the controller with a little game time, I just threw on these old rubberized extended stick covers on my DS4 and I've been playing decent with them.

(http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/ad263/Boltman35/DS4sticks_zps49c1aabb.jpg)

The problem is I have construction hands. They naturally tense up. If I start with the controller it could take me years to get back on the same level of skill. On the PC I am an extremely good FPS player. All the XIM does for me on the console is transfer my skills over without the use of the controller. I don't feel the Xim gives you an advantage over controller players because of the aim assist. However when it comes to snipping a mouse does give that edge.

Playing the objective I would do well but when it comes to ground and Pound I would be as good as a new player and it's very discouraging when you know how you can play with the right controls.

I'm sure something will happen in due time. Its just been a kick in the face over the past week thinking we are going to get the Beta and now no beta at all and even possible the XIM4 now going way past First Quarter. There really is no light here at the moment. Obsiv is a smart man and has his resources, we just have to wait and see what he can do.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 10:31 AM - 11/24/13
I'm only selling my PS4 if I get everything I paid for it. I won't take a loss so no big deal. I will switch over to XB1 till PS4 is supported and then buy another PS4 - No loss. I always planned to own both consoles anyways. If I wasn't broke from buying Xmas I probably wouldn't sell at all. But if I'm going to get my money back, Now is the time while they're hard to find!

And like I've said before, I still have no love for SONY, this just adds to my hatered to be honest.

It's a personal choice, plain and simple.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zombieguy on 10:33 AM - 11/24/13
I am sure Obsiv will buy that racing wheel. If it registers as controller it may be just what he needs and the problem is solved.

I'm sure he has ordered it already:)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 10:33 AM - 11/24/13
The wheel is availabe December 3 in Europe from Hercules. So I think that may be the time the PS4 users can join the beta. With the wheel the PS4 price just got 499$ LOL
I will pass and go with the bone until a cheap controller comes out.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 10:38 AM - 11/24/13
I also must say I dont want to sell the Bone, I said "Xbox volume up" today playing rise and it added volume to my receiver. I kinda liked that.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 10:40 AM - 11/24/13
Don't get too carried away with that wheel. :) I don't want someone to buy it and find out that it uses Bluetooth. You can't download the manual from the Thrustmaster website yet so it's difficult to be 100% sure. I will email Thrustmaster to double check.

However, it is 100% certain that the PS4 can accept wired inputs. So even if that isn't the right device, the right device should come along at some point.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 10:52 AM - 11/24/13

The problem is I have construction hands. They naturally tense up.

My problem can be put more simply - I suck. Really, really hard. :) I haven't played an FPS game with controller since Goldeneye. Have always used M/KB, even on PS3.

I can hold a 3 K/D in COD on M/KB. On controller it would be about 0.3.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 11:03 AM - 11/24/13
I tweeted @yosp and @playstation over the issue. Hopefully enough piling on will prompt a response.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 11:09 AM - 11/24/13
I tweeted @yosp and @playstation over the issue. Hopefully enough piling on will prompt a response.

I think you might hit a brick wall (I'd be happy to be wrong, though). It seems from the FAQs that making the DS4 wireless only is completely deliberate.

I think the way forward here's likely to be either trying the XIM with a licensed wired controller (possibly the T80 racing wheel) and/or trying to get the XIM licensed by Sony.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 11:15 AM - 11/24/13
what if the third party controllers all operate the same way as the ds4?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 11:18 AM - 11/24/13
I tweeted @yosp and @playstation over the issue. Hopefully enough piling on will prompt a response.

I think you might hit a brick wall (I'd be happy to be wrong, though). It seems from the FAQs that making the DS4 wireless only is completely deliberate.

I think the way forward here's likely to be either trying the XIM with a licensed wired controller (possibly the T80 racing wheel) and/or trying to get the XIM licensed by Sony.

I assume it is deliberate, but enough complaints about it might motivate some action.

I've also sent the information to Kotaku in the hopes they might be willing to cover it. I left XIM out of the conversation there and mentioned only the major concerns it would have on the MLG/Pro circuit.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zombieguy on 11:19 AM - 11/24/13
Good news is I got my controller working agian today. However my distance from the console is only 3 feet! Once I go past that it stops working as its out of range!, I'm missing 1 screw that holds the board in place but it pressure holds in the case and I'm missing a spring from the the trigger..

All in all I did good:) lol.  The great thing about best buy is buy/returning stuff..

" I duno what happened. The bluetooth doesn't work if I'm more than 3 feet from my console.. here you try it":)

Problem solved!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: saint72 on 11:23 AM - 11/24/13
So has BT been ruled out as definatly to slow? May been a obstacle but if it could be sorted would be nice to have less wires!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 11:25 AM - 11/24/13
what if the third party controllers all operate the same way as the ds4?

The DS4 only uses Bluetooth. Any third party controller which doesn't use Bluetooth must operate differently from the DS4. It must be giving a wired output which can be 'passed through' to the PS4 by an XIM (which can't happen with the DS4).

The PS4 official FAQs state that licensed USB third party controllers will work (and that PS3 USB controllers will work where a developer chooses to support them). So the PS4 can take wired USB inputs. The issue is that, unlike the DS3, the DS4 doesn't function as a wired controller.

So we need to find a licensed wired device for PS4 which is generically PS4 compatible (as opposed to a wired device which just works on games where it has dev support). The Thrustmaster T80 might be one such device although I'm not 100% sure. Can't seem to register with them to check the details either - I'm getting an error message from the registration email. :(

Of course, a licensed wired device might not work either. But it hasn't been tried yet.

Disclaimer: I'm not a tech person so all or any of the above could be BS.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zombieguy on 11:36 AM - 11/24/13
The DS4 Controller into the PS3 uses the Data Cable to work. It will not work via bluetooth. 

As I don't know here is my question,

Have the controller talk to the XIM wired and output Via bluetooth from the XIM to the console, I assume you would need the encryption if you were to output your own bluetooth signal?

If yes, as already said, see how much the licensing is!

Does licensing work as a royalty fee per controller you sell or just 1 price for the license on unlimited units?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 11:42 AM - 11/24/13
The licensing is usually both a fixed fee and a per unit royalty.

It's somewhat risky to start asking about a license because if Sony hasn't really noticed XIM in the past, it will at that point and might (or might not) have issues with it.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 11:46 AM - 11/24/13
There is no reason to sell your PS4s. When I say deprioritized I mean just that (not cut). XIM has a great USB design of transparent passthrough. It means XIM happily exists in the middle and doesn't have to know or care about anything other than a single USB packet. That design assumed USB connectivity of next-gen controllers as we worked on XIM4. When someone comes out with a wired solution for PS4 (either officially licensed or not) we will have the solution and it'll take likely less than a day to enable XIM4 on PS4. The only hard part here is to decide how long to wait for this wired solution before starting up on making our passthrough work over Bluetooth as well. No reason why it can't -- just more work that we didn't anticipate. Don't worry, we will solve it -- we are very good at what we do. :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: SadCustomer on 11:52 AM - 11/24/13
Still don't understand why they wouldn't have a true wired mode for the most hardcore. They even increased the USB poll rate to 250Hz (whereas it was 100Hz on PS3). I'm uncertain why they'd do that if there was no plan to use it on the console.
http://www.xim3.com/community/index.php?topic=28631.msg350468#msg349456
i call gg :P
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 12:01 PM - 11/24/13
There is no reason to sell your PS4s. When I say deprioritized I mean just that (not cut). XIM has a great USB design of transparent passthrough. It means XIM happily exists in the middle and doesn't have to know or care about anything other than a single USB packet. That design assumed USB connectivity of next-gen controllers as we worked on XIM4. When someone comes out with a wired solution for PS4 (either officially licensed or not) we will have the solution and it'll take likely less than a day to enable XIM4 on PS4. The only hard part here is to decide how long to wait for this wired solution before starting up on making our passthrough work over Bluetooth as well. No reason why it can't -- just more work that we didn't anticipate. Don't worry, we will solve it -- we are very good at what we do. :)
Thank you OB for Putin all are crazy minds to rest. Sit back..feet up..deep breath...relax
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joey McCamper on 12:02 PM - 11/24/13
There is no reason to sell your PS4s. When I say deprioritized I mean just that (not cut). XIM has a great USB design of transparent passthrough. It means XIM happily exists in the middle and doesn't have to know or care about anything other than a single USB packet. That design assumed USB connectivity of next-gen controllers as we worked on XIM4. When someone comes out with a wired solution for PS4 (either officially licensed or not) we will have the solution and it'll take likely less than a day to enable XIM4 on PS4. The only hard part here is to decide how long to wait for this wired solution before starting up on making our passthrough work over Bluetooth as well. No reason why it can't -- just more work that we didn't anticipate. Don't worry, we will solve it -- we are very good at what we do. :)

Thank you sir! Appreciate all the good and hard work you and your guys do.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:06 PM - 11/24/13
Obsiv, could you put a power plug on the XIM4 if it is still possible in design. The reason is out of this miserable solution you quite explained bridging to the couch would be possible. It would be a nice feature to have. Of course only after testing and comparing the lag. If you dont add a power plug then only my love can power it. LOL
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 12:08 PM - 11/24/13
I'm still selling mine simply out of spite!

 :P

Unless, you suddenly tell us "SOAB, the Xbone doesn't work either!"

It would be nice if you would confirm that.



Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:19 PM - 11/24/13
Quote
The only hard part here is to decide how long to wait for this wired solution before starting up on making our passthrough work over Bluetooth as well.

Maybe do it while we betatest
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: SadCustomer on 12:28 PM - 11/24/13
Xbone one should have dynamic polling rate change since it can support up to 8 controllers at the same time
(unless its the same to xbox 360)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 12:33 PM - 11/24/13
Well it wouldn't be wireless of course since you'd still need to plug it in. There would be no need for a power jack, USB power would be just fine using one of your existing phone power adapters.

And yes, want to get the beta going as soon as possible and then get back to PS4.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 12:36 PM - 11/24/13
I tweeted @yosp and @playstation over the issue. Hopefully enough piling on will prompt a response.

I think you might hit a brick wall (I'd be happy to be wrong, though). It seems from the FAQs that making the DS4 wireless only is completely deliberate.

I think the way forward here's likely to be either trying the XIM with a licensed wired controller (possibly the T80 racing wheel) and/or trying to get the XIM licensed by Sony.

I assume it is deliberate, but enough complaints about it might motivate some action.

I've also sent the information to Kotaku in the hopes they might be willing to cover it. I left XIM out of the conversation there and mentioned only the major concerns it would have on the MLG/Pro circuit.


thanks a lot for the effort, sounds like a good idea to inform kotaku
maybe they pick it up

sadly my NeoGAF account still is not unlocked, for probably month now :/
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:37 PM - 11/24/13
Well it wouldn't be wireless of course since you'd still need to plug it in. There would be no need for a power jack, USB power would be just fine using one of your existing phone power adapters.

And yes, want to get the beta going as soon as possible and then get back to PS4.

Right thatís fine then.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sledge_Hammer on 12:47 PM - 11/24/13
During the initial setup of a PS4 you are asked to connect the controller via USB cable, is that simply to provide power or does it also enable data transfer at that point?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:51 PM - 11/24/13
I think thatís when it pairs?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 12:52 PM - 11/24/13
During the initial setup of a PS4 you are asked to connect the controller via USB cable, is that simply to provide power or does it also enable data transfer at that point?

That's when pairing takes place. Bluetooth addresses are exchanged. Without that, the controller doesn't light up.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zacharybinx34 on 12:54 PM - 11/24/13
OBsIV,
Are you going to need anyone to test any actual XIM4 units before official release?

I know longer have an Edge, and would love to beta test fit XIM4 if it's needed.

:-)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 01:00 PM - 11/24/13
OBsIV you are confusing me here. i though your policy was being as much cooperative with MS/Sony as you could, without macros or cheats to dirty your name. yet a china copy cat can be officially licenced and you refuse.

what happens when Sony brings down the Ban hammer and blocks XIM ?
why is it okay for you to STEAL the licenced tech behaviour but not buy a licence?
and what happens if in the lowest of odds Sony takes notice about the XIM using a stolen licence authentication?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 01:15 PM - 11/24/13
Did I miss something?

Is the Xbox One a GO__  NO GO__?

Please check the one that applies.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: BiopticBiscuit on 01:20 PM - 11/24/13
Did I miss something?

Is the Xbox One a GO__  NO GO__?

Please check the one that applies.

I believe it is a GO. PS4 appears to be 'on-hold' until they come up with a reasonable time frame to wait for a third-party controller.

...
And yes, want to get the beta going as soon as possible and then get back to PS4.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 01:52 PM - 11/24/13
Did I miss something?

Is the Xbox One a GO__  NO GO__?

Please check the one that applies.

(http://i.imgur.com/VqvsvEW.png)

There you go.   ;D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 01:55 PM - 11/24/13
^ Lol... Nice!

Still waiting for the OBsIV comment link though to confirm.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 01:58 PM - 11/24/13
there was one thing, ONE, shielding the XIM from any and all evils: "the XIM uses an official controller and the outputs only data that controller could". but now that's no longer the case.. and if you go to 3rd partys for copying their licence they can very well ignore it, support you, or more likely go against you because you are exploiting the fact they paid so you don't have to.


i know you want to only cross a bridge once you get to it, but do you honestly believe 3rd partys will be working wired with anything other than the licenced "key" for identification? it's possible, sure, does it seem likely though?



i don't mind waiting for a solution mind you. i don't mind AT ALL. i waited longer on PS3.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 02:05 PM - 11/24/13
There is no reason to sell your PS4s. When I say deprioritized I mean just that (not cut). XIM has a great USB design of transparent passthrough. It means XIM happily exists in the middle and doesn't have to know or care about anything other than a single USB packet. That design assumed USB connectivity of next-gen controllers as we worked on XIM4. When someone comes out with a wired solution for PS4 (either officially licensed or not) we will have the solution and it'll take likely less than a day to enable XIM4 on PS4. The only hard part here is to decide how long to wait for this wired solution before starting up on making our passthrough work over Bluetooth as well. No reason why it can't -- just more work that we didn't anticipate. Don't worry, we will solve it -- we are very good at what we do. :)

That's good to hear.

I think I'm going to wait and see what happens before deciding on which next gen to go for as no XIM compatibility is a dealbreaker.

Bluetooth 'pass through' sounds interesting but you might need some fancy hardware to avoid input lag. Sony say in their FAQ that as a result of 'new technology and hardware optimizations' the DS4 has minimal input lag, although there must be some and that would be added to whatever the XIM4 Bluetooth adds.

Quote
Thanks to new technology and hardware optimizations, the DUALSHOCK 4 controllerís wireless connectivity experiences less latency overall than the PS3 systemís DUALSHOCK 3 controller.

At the same time, if you go with 'USB passthrough' it seems clear that PS4 customers will need to incur a fair bit of extra cost (assuming no Sony XIM licence). However, reading the FAQ and other stuff, I'm pretty sure there will be licensed wired devices and probably very soon. I wouldn't mind buying the T80 wheel. Could play on some racing games as well as COD. :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 02:09 PM - 11/24/13
...if you go to 3rd partys for copying their licence they can very well ignore it, support you, or more likely go against you because you are exploiting the fact they paid so you don't have to.

i know you want to only cross a bridge once you get to it, but do you honestly believe 3rd partys will be working wired with anything other than the licenced "key" for identification? it's possible, sure, does it seem likely though?


I doubt third parties would be cross if a load of XIM users purchased their product purely so they could plug it into the XIM. They'd be doing rather well out of the deal. :) It would actually be the XIM users who were shortchanged because they'd be paying (say) $50 for a useless peripheral rather than the (say) $20 extra on the price of the XIM4 which getting the XIM4 licensed would mean. Assuming of course that Sony are prepared to give OBsIV a license - but they seem prepared to do business with FragFX...
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 02:16 PM - 11/24/13
I suppose FragFX is different in that Sony would only be licensing one product for the money. XIM can support a large number of mice/ keyboards so Sony would effectively be licensing 40 products in one go, for a single fee.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:35 PM - 11/24/13
I think it would be hilarious to use a competitors licensed product as wired controller.  At least they would sell some. LOL
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 02:41 PM - 11/24/13
I think it would be hilarious to use a competitors licensed product as wired controller.  At least they would sell some. LOL

Hehe. At last.... we have finally found a use for the FragFX Shark!! :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 03:03 PM - 11/24/13
I doubt third parties would be cross if a load of XIM users purchased their product purely so they could plug it into the XIM. They'd be doing rather well out of the deal. :) It would actually be the XIM users who were shortchanged because they'd be paying (say) $50 for a useless peripheral rather than the (say) $20 extra on the price of the XIM4 which getting the XIM4 licensed would mean. Assuming of course that Sony are prepared to give OBsIV a license - but they seem prepared to do business with FragFX...

that's if we buy the 3rd party. but why do that then at all? then why not pay more for the XIM directly and not have to play more for the 3rd party at all ? if the 3rd party gets a licence, so can XIM. and paying XIM would be cheaper since we would be paying for exactly just what we want and not a controller or adapter
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 03:19 PM - 11/24/13
Having to buy something extra to use your XIM on PS4 is last resort. I don't want this to be like it was for X360.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 03:25 PM - 11/24/13
I doubt third parties would be cross if a load of XIM users purchased their product purely so they could plug it into the XIM. They'd be doing rather well out of the deal. :) It would actually be the XIM users who were shortchanged because they'd be paying (say) $50 for a useless peripheral rather than the (say) $20 extra on the price of the XIM4 which getting the XIM4 licensed would mean. Assuming of course that Sony are prepared to give OBsIV a license - but they seem prepared to do business with FragFX...

that's if we buy the 3rd party. but why do that then at all? then why not pay more for the XIM directly and not have to play more for the 3rd party at all ? if the 3rd party gets a licence, so can XIM. and paying XIM would be cheaper since we would be paying for exactly just what we want and not a controller or adapter

OBsIV himself said that having to use a wired third party controller wouldn't be ideal. :)

I guess that makes it a choice between a wireless solution and approaching Sony for a license.

Sony might tell him where to get off. It might be simply wrong that they are prepared to license FragFX - I only quoted an anonymous internet user's post saying they were. And XIM is 'worse' than FragFX in the sense that it allows a number of different devices to be used, rather than just one FragFX. Although on the other hand, companies do generally listen when you get in touch with them offering money and growth in customer base. Sony might not be entirely opposed to getting a piece of the XIM action, if OBsIV can show good sales figures.

If Sony are prepared to license the XIM then it's a question of:

- Which is more hassle, the no doubt lengthy process Sony will make OBsIV go through or designing and building a Bluetooth solution?

- Which would be a better product at the end of the day (is it possible/ cost-effective to build a lag free Bluetooth XIM bearing in mind that Sony appear to have used some fancy tech to achieve low latency on the DS4 via Bluetooth).

- And finally... how difficult would it be for Sony to block a Bluetooth passthrough solution if you decide not to give them the $$$ they want and expect?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 03:29 PM - 11/24/13
im sure this will get patched via firmware, but still i would atleast start to get in contact with sony
its always good to have the door open already just for the case there wont be a firmware update :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 03:51 PM - 11/24/13
What about joypad emulation built into xim4. That way there is no need for a controller to be plugged in. I don't know the legality of this but that's how I play on n64 emulators and such. Is this not a better solution? Less wires less fuss.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 05:24 PM - 11/24/13
That can be patched. It's not likely they could ever patch how up until now XIM has been a passthrough device. Aside from not allowing devices to communicate with PS4, including their own controller. :(
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 05:30 PM - 11/24/13
That can be patched. It's not likely they could ever patch how up until now XIM has been a passthrough device. Aside from not allowing devices to communicate with PS4, including their own controller. :(

That was one motivation of the system too -- compatibility. No concern over console updates since the console is always talking to their own controllers.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joker76 on 05:50 PM - 11/24/13
I doubt third parties would be cross if a load of XIM users purchased their product purely so they could plug it into the XIM. They'd be doing rather well out of the deal. :) It would actually be the XIM users who were shortchanged because they'd be paying (say) $50 for a useless peripheral rather than the (say) $20 extra on the price of the XIM4 which getting the XIM4 licensed would mean. Assuming of course that Sony are prepared to give OBsIV a license - but they seem prepared to do business with FragFX...

that's if we buy the 3rd party. but why do that then at all? then why not pay more for the XIM directly and not have to play more for the 3rd party at all ? if the 3rd party gets a licence, so can XIM. and paying XIM would be cheaper since we would be paying for exactly just what we want and not a controller or adapter

You're assuming everyone wants to pay extra for PS4 compatibility. That's not the case. If XIM has to pay licensing fees, then the price will go up for everyone (even those who only want XBOne compatibility). That's not really fair.

If it comes down to it, I say keep the XIM price down and if people want PS4 compatibility they can buy a 3rd party controller.

FYI - I have both consoles and want compatibility on both, but I'm willing to pay extra for a 3rd party controller instead of raising the cost of the XIM for everyone.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 06:17 PM - 11/24/13
You're assuming everyone wants to pay extra for PS4 compatibility. That's not the case. If XIM has to pay licensing fees, then the price will go up for everyone (even those who only want XBOne compatibility). That's not really fair.

If it comes down to it, I say keep the XIM price down and if people want PS4 compatibility they can buy a 3rd party controller.

FYI - I have both consoles and want compatibility on both, but I'm willing to pay extra for a 3rd party controller instead of raising the cost of the XIM for everyone.

of course, that goes without saying. but OBsIV was already considering 2 versions of the XIM4. it might just be that it would be different aspects to tell them apart. i do not disagree with you i was just being narrow about the discussion for simplicity's sake.


@od1n i don't think Sony will allow the DS4 to talk wired to the PS4, ever. not unless there's backlash or at least a good outcry for it. which there might be because of the tournament situation. they will let other devices talk wired no problem, which can be enough for OB to get around without issues but it's a big unknown for now and i'm worried because Sony is really doubling down on closing and purging their garden. if Sony plays it's cards right at the launch phase they don't need to make any actions later, situation will be under control for them until someone breaks (hacks/cracks) something..



OBsIV just so you know, there is currently a (bad) workaround to get a XIMEdge working on PS4. today. you just stream from PS4 to VitaTV and use the XIM on that. it's not ideal, but it works. i know you can use that for anything but it's just so you know.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: BiopticBiscuit on 06:30 PM - 11/24/13
...
OBsIV just so you know, there is currently a (bad) workaround to get a XIMEdge working on PS4. today. you just stream from PS4 to VitaTV and use the XIM on that. it's not ideal, but it works. i know you can use that for anything but it's just so you know.

Is this confirmed to work? I'd go out and buy a VitaTV right now if that's the case. I can't stand using a controller!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 06:33 PM - 11/24/13
...
OBsIV just so you know, there is currently a (bad) workaround to get a XIMEdge working on PS4. today. you just stream from PS4 to VitaTV and use the XIM on that. it's not ideal, but it works. i know you can use that for anything but it's just so you know.

Is this confirmed to work? I'd go out and buy a VitaTV right now if that's the case. I can't stand using a controller!

What!?

Same question, confirmed!?

Where is this info posted at?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 06:35 PM - 11/24/13
Is this confirmed to work? I'd go out and buy a VitaTV right now if that's the case. I can't stand using a controller!

i can't confirm it. same goes for i can't deny it. i won't import a VitaTV. i want a EU version if they make one. and besides i don't have the cash

it's not posted Boltman, VitaTV uses DS3, XIM Edge outputs data just like any DS3, 1+1. now Sony could have made the VitaTV like the PS4 only obey BT, and that would suck. but how would i test it? i can't get my hands on a VitaTV sadly...
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 06:40 PM - 11/24/13
Thanks for the info ak.

I'll test it out, gimme a link on where I can order one.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 06:46 PM - 11/24/13
Thanks for the info ak.

I'll test it out, gimme a link on where I can order one.

DUDE no, don't! LOL 1-VitaTV only accepts JP PSN accounts, i don't know if this impacts remote play but it surely impacts the use you can make of it. 2- remote play will kill your online multiplayer FPS, there's no way you can ignore the lag or a stutter. i think you would regret it. i just thought of telling him for the sake of him knowing every detail he can..

seriously be patient. trust me on this.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 06:50 PM - 11/24/13
DUDE no, don't! LOL 1-VitaTV only accepts JP PSN accounts, i don't know if this impacts remote play but it surely impacts the use you can make of it. 2- remote play will kill your online multiplayer FPS, there's no way you can ignore the lag or a stutter. i think you would regret it. i just thought of telling him for the sake of him knowing every detail he can..

Someone sent me a link to buy it (thanks BB).

I may not buy it either way because I read this on the site description where I could purchase it...


Quote
Measuring 6cm by 10cm - making this the smallest PlayStation hardware ever, the PS Vita TV has 2 card slots: for Vita games and Vita Memory Cards; it will connect to the DualShock 3 controller with future support for the DualShock 4. While this may already be appealing for those who would enjoy the Vita experience on a bigger screen, the PS Vita extends it's functionality by enabling video streaming services and more. PSone Classics and PSP games from a digital library can also be played; Remote Play with a PS4 is a definite possibility in the future as well.

So it wouldn't even work right away anyways lol.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 06:59 PM - 11/24/13
So it wouldn't even work right away anyways lol.

i didn't mention that because i thought you had realised it already, PS4 isn't out in Jap until 2014, no way they could have that working for now LOL

i think someone on neogaf bought a vitatv to test it with ps4. i can't remember more.. which is a shame as it would be useful now. i think it works because it doesn't interfere with the psn accounts but i never trust something until i see it proven.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joey McCamper on 07:43 PM - 11/24/13
Sold my PS4 to my brother in law for $400. Wasn't looking to get a profit.Left my account signed in so he could start with BF4 and CoD Ghost since I picked them up digitally. I'll get a PS4 in March or around Summer.

He also asked me if the 1.75 KD I've been averaging on the PS4 with the controller made a difference between the 2.5 with the XIM, I said yes  8). He's a Sony guy and I wasn't looking to hustle anyone.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 10:43 PM - 11/24/13
Id say the best choice would be to keep the course captain. Start the beta as intendend with the ONE and then do the BT bridge for the PS4 that we need anyway as itís a great feature for the ONE also. It will be another great Betatest on how it works and how it can satisfy good gamers. Otherwise if they hear 8ms lag they wont even touch it. Then when a wired adapter comes along before Christmas, Q1 or even Q2 you make it work and update the firmware. This way you are not forcing someone to get a wired controller but you leave him the option to be lag free.
I think that would be a good solution.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 10:57 PM - 11/24/13
OBsIV,

Have you tried connecting a DS4 with a sub account (non primary) wired? Do you even have a second controller?

I was just thinking something in my head after watching a YouTube video of some guy playing his PS Vita with a DS4 controller. Probably nothing by my brain is racked looking for alternate ideas lol.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sledge_Hammer on 06:53 AM - 11/25/13
With the XIM Edge you can still use your controller, hope this feature gets carried over to the XIM4 as it is very useful when using vehicles in games like BF4.
 
Anyway, I did a quick search and came up with some companies to keep an eye on with regards to a wired controller for the PS4:-

http://www.antigrav-media.co.uk/
http://www.pdp.com/
http://www.mayflash.com/Index.html
http://www.powera.com/Main/Default
http://www.gioteck.com/
http://www.snakebyte-europe.com/en/home-europe/
http://www.bigben-interactive.co.uk/
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 10:07 AM - 11/25/13
Right here goes. The ds4 connected wirelessly gives 16 ms lag according to these guys. They are all working on a driver for PC
http://forums.pcsx2.net/Thread-DS4-To-XInput-Wrapper?page=3
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 11:08 AM - 11/25/13
so its 24 with the XIm unless Obsiv made it faster. Should be OK.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Wurstwasser on 11:33 AM - 11/25/13
Are you sure its 16ms from DS4 + 8ms from the XIM? I thought the 8ms came from the 125Hz USB polling rate, which would not apply here since it it already connected wireless.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 11:41 AM - 11/25/13
I thought the same. XIM edge has 8 ms cuz of 125 Hz polling rate. Didn't think it stacked
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 12:00 PM - 11/25/13
yep it should be 16ms + maybe 1-2ms addition
overall definitely dealable, considering some people play on monitors with 60-80ms input lag and dont really notice it


an overall wireless xim could also be interesting for the xbox one too, also you can market wireless pretty well
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 12:07 PM - 11/25/13
XIM adds 1-frame of latency. So, if BT really is 16ms for this, then that's what the latency is going to be.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 12:37 PM - 11/25/13
dunno if i get it right

so 16ms BT + 1 Frame XIM aka 16ms = 32ms lag overall right?
or just 16ms totally
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Wurstwasser on 01:15 PM - 11/25/13
It is 8ms more than we have now. So i don't think it will be such an impact on most ximmers.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: lh82p on 01:17 PM - 11/25/13
Here a intresting news:

 http://www.play3.de/2013/11/25/playstation-4-support-fur-sony-pulse-headset-und-andere-usb-headsets-wird-im-januar-nachgereicht/

Its germany, but to summ up: Sony will patch the support with USB-Headsets on january. Maybe with this patch, sony will fix also de usb communication with the controller.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 01:19 PM - 11/25/13
january is a way too long tbh! :)
off to the wireless solution! :P

he talks about it on 17:17 onwards in the video
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joker76 on 01:21 PM - 11/25/13
The thread seems to be filling up with PS4 posts. Any news on the XBOne front?

Patience isn't one of my better virtues, and I live in a rural area so I'll probably have to order the BT dongle and hub online and wait another few days for shipping.  :-\

Thanks. Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Thera6179 on 01:23 PM - 11/25/13
Sorry to be an idiot but is XIM4 going to be backward compatible with PS3?. Or is it stricly PS4/XB1?

I am one of the early beta adopters for the XIME and they are selling like hot cakes on craigslist. Someone just offered me about 175 and I can use that money towards a new XIM4.

Thanks
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 01:26 PM - 11/25/13
xim4 will be backwards compatible and obsiv said he might give out a big update on the beta next week
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 01:28 PM - 11/25/13
I don't understand this at all. :)

Is the idea that the DS4 would communicate with the XIM via BT and the XIM would then communicate with the PS4 via USB?

I thought 'Bluetooth passthrough' would involve the XIM sending a Bluetooth signal to the PS4 (i.e. so the PS4 thinks it's talking to a licensed Bluetooth controller). So the amount of input lag would depend on the quality of the components in the XIM Bluetooth rather than just being whatever it is for the wired XIM (XIM Bluetooth would be more likely to add input lag than XIM USB).

*exposes complete ignorance*
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Thera6179 on 01:28 PM - 11/25/13
That means even if PS4 is not compatible right now it should still work on PS3 right?

Thanks
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 01:42 PM - 11/25/13
XIM adds 1-frame of latency. So, if BT really is 16ms for this, then that's what the latency is going to be.

people seem to miss it but THAT IS AMAZING. you really deserve credit if you got it that low and if you deliever BT DS4 XIM4 with <20ms. holy crap OB that would be so good for cable unmess
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 01:43 PM - 11/25/13
That means even if PS4 is not compatible right now it should still work on PS3 right?

Thanks

PS3 is granted. no problems at all since previous XIM already works perfectly
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 01:44 PM - 11/25/13
I don't understand this at all. :)

Is the idea that the DS4 would communicate with the XIM via BT and the XIM would then communicate with the PS4 via USB?

I thought 'Bluetooth passthrough' would involve the XIM sending a Bluetooth signal to the PS4 (i.e. so the PS4 thinks it's talking to a licensed Bluetooth controller). So the amount of input lag would depend on the quality of the components in the XIM Bluetooth rather than just being whatever it is for the wired XIM (XIM Bluetooth would be more likely to add input lag than XIM USB).

*exposes complete ignorance*

you connect the DS4 to the XIM, wired or via BT, and the XIM will talk to PS4 via BT. that's what is on the table.

and you are right on the rest
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:48 PM - 11/25/13
Obsiv I give you 8ms for the great wireless feature for the ONE also please.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 01:57 PM - 11/25/13
I don't understand this at all. :)

Is the idea that the DS4 would communicate with the XIM via BT and the XIM would then communicate with the PS4 via USB?

I thought 'Bluetooth passthrough' would involve the XIM sending a Bluetooth signal to the PS4 (i.e. so the PS4 thinks it's talking to a licensed Bluetooth controller). So the amount of input lag would depend on the quality of the components in the XIM Bluetooth rather than just being whatever it is for the wired XIM (XIM Bluetooth would be more likely to add input lag than XIM USB).

*exposes complete ignorance*

you connect the DS4 to the XIM, wired or via BT, and the XIM will talk to PS4 via BT. that's what is on the table.

and you are right on the rest

What I don't get is this. The FAQ says the following:

Quote
Thanks to new technology and hardware optimizations, the DUALSHOCK 4 controllerís wireless connectivity experiences less latency overall than the PS3′s DUALSHOCK 3

In other words they are saying that they have built some sort of clever tech which means the DS4's latency is lower than that of the average BT device.

How can we predict what the input lag of XIM Bluetooth will be without knowing exactly what fancy hardware the DS4 controller contains to achieve 16ms lag and whether it can be replicated in XIM Bluetooth?

Is it that any BT transmitter would have 16ms lag when talking to the PS4 because all the clever tech stuff is in the PS4? So OBsIV can use whatever BT transmitter he likes and the input lag will be the same?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 01:58 PM - 11/25/13
Obsiv I give you 8ms for the great wireless feature for the ONE also please.

Depending on how far the xim4 hardware is it would require a redesign as X1 uses RF for their controllers, not Bluetooth. I can see the appeal though for couch players.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Wurstwasser on 02:04 PM - 11/25/13
The XBOX ONE still has those security chips. I'm not sure if wireless is possible that way.
Also the edge is compatible to the Asus BT dongle, so maybe bluetooth connection to the PS4 is not that far away?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:12 PM - 11/25/13
Would be strange to have to connect the XIm for the ONE, that would mean I would have to plug and I was just happy no one forces me to plug again. No that would be strange.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:19 PM - 11/25/13
I mean we are not even that far but scenario is when a friend calls me to play something on the ONE and I am wireless with the XIM on the PS4. Wait I have to get the cable and plug the XIM. Very inconvenient.
Scenario two is I press a global switcher to the PS4 ST and off I go after switching consoles with the harmony.

so if possible add that RF receiver to the XIM4.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 02:20 PM - 11/25/13
Obsiv I give you 8ms for the great wireless feature for the ONE also please.

Depending on how far the xim4 hardware is it would require a redesign as X1 uses RF for their controllers, not Bluetooth. I can see the appeal though for couch players.

i might be daydreaming, but OB said that XIM4 would have BT and RF. you know what that sounds like to me? him trying to accomplish wireless XIM4 on both consoles, maybe even the 4 of them in the long run.

add the fact that he was making claims XIM4 would be nearly plu'n'play and the most easy to deal with XIM ever and on a new level and i think he meant just that, wireless pairing with the consoles, apps for configuring, cloud for STs. goodbye cables, goodbye PC, good bye complications in configuring the basics. plug, default binds done, tune sens, game.

feel free to correct me please as i am getting really high expectations i don't want crushed.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 02:22 PM - 11/25/13
I mean we are not even that far but scenario is when a friend calls me to play something on the ONE and I am wireless with the XIM on the PS4. Wait I have to get the cable and plug the XIM. Very inconvenient.
Scenario two is I press a global switcher to the PS4 ST and off I go after switching consoles with the harmony.

so if possible add that RF receiver to the XIM4.

i think the only issue you might have and need for the cable outside of advanced features is pairing. so when you take the XIM to a new console you use the cable to pair and then wireless, go to another console get the cable to pair then wireless. this may take a while to achieve though
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 02:47 PM - 11/25/13
Obsiv I give you 8ms for the great wireless feature for the ONE also please.

Depending on how far the xim4 hardware is it would require a redesign as X1 uses RF for their controllers, not Bluetooth. I can see the appeal though for couch players.

i might be daydreaming, but OB said that XIM4 would have BT and RF. you know what that sounds like to me? him trying to accomplish wireless XIM4 on both consoles, maybe even the 4 of them in the long run.

add the fact that he was making claims XIM4 would be nearly plu'n'play and the most easy to deal with XIM ever and on a new level and i think he meant just that, wireless pairing with the consoles, apps for configuring, cloud for STs. goodbye cables, goodbye PC, good bye complications in configuring the basics. plug, default binds done, tune sens, game.

feel free to correct me please as i am getting really high expectations i don't want crushed.

It looks like wireless passthough of the authentication controller was never planned considering Obsiv said he would rather not do that. That's actually the point of this thread, find a way to get wired to work so we don't have additional latency over Bluetooth.

I don't recall RF being mentioned ak, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:48 PM - 11/25/13
Good we have the beta as I can see release move back to Q2. But better wait than multi-faceplaming like M$.

http://www.youtube.com/v/lGQRsansClk&hd=1
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:49 PM - 11/25/13
Oh mist I understood he does not want to go through a third party device?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 02:51 PM - 11/25/13
Roads your new campaign should be on Sony's doorstep demanding them to allow their proper USB support.

Oh mist I understood he does not want to go through a third party device?

I don't know. The better question is why support an inferior connection type when its not necessary.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:54 PM - 11/25/13
Sadly a campaign at Sonys is pointless.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 02:57 PM - 11/25/13
Inferior connection type being X1's RF vs. USB passthrough. Obviously PS4 over Bluetooth may be required at this point.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 03:31 PM - 11/25/13
Inferior connection type being X1's RF vs. USB passthrough. Obviously PS4 over Bluetooth may be required at this point.

OB always planned USB but if wireless would be possible it could be something to look at later. now with this Sony mess at least from PS4 side BT seems to need more investment soon rather than later. and if he indeed planned RF than i see it only having one purpose.

i won't dig through the posts as OB does make a lot of them, but i'm almost sure i saw that. he mentioned 2 things, BT the first and than another.. what would that other be? it's what i'm questioning right now. i think it was RF, not too sure..
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 03:54 PM - 11/25/13
I would rather have wires everywhere than go wireless. I notice 8 ms.
Not the same thing but I DJ and use traktor scratch digital vinyl which has 4.2 ms and I notice that. I got reactions lie a squirrel on speed. Anything more than 8 ms ain't gonna cut it
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 03:57 PM - 11/25/13
Makes sense the others will just play worse.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 04:05 PM - 11/25/13
I don't remember anything about rf ak. I coulda missed it though.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 04:05 PM - 11/25/13
Sadly a campaign at Sonys is pointless.

maybe opening a dedicated topic in the general discussion asking the community to tweed @yosp could help more
he doesnt read every tweed and the chance is high he just missed our few questions

any thoughts?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 04:08 PM - 11/25/13
also

i dont see wireless as an disadvantage even though theres a better connection type with usb available
there are lots of people that prefer to play their gear wireless even though it has slightly more delay
take tuff for example, or all the people that play wireless with the sony nav in general

16ms of delay is not what id call a big disadvantage compared to 250hz = 4ms with usb interface
12ms difference is really minor

for those people comfort plays a much higher role than slightly additional lag
and meeting the needs of this branch can only do the xim good
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 04:09 PM - 11/25/13
also

i dont see wireless as an disadvantage even though theres a better connection type with usb available
there are lots of people that prefer to play their gear wireless even though it has slightly more delay
take tuff for example, or all the people that play wireless with the sony nav in general

16ms of delay is not what id call a big disadvantage compared to 250hz = 4ms with usb interface
12ms difference is really minor
I Hear ya od1n..my point is I would like the option of both wired and wireless
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 04:12 PM - 11/25/13
sure thats what obsiv can implement on a later date then IF we do get the usb firmware patch someday
for the moment its entirely unknown when and if this happens


so if sony does the update someday, then within a day obsiv can code the usb interface, until then wireless is better than nothing and for some people even better than usb
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 04:14 PM - 11/25/13
What was wrong with roads' plan...

- Release a wired solution if and when a suitable wired 3rd party controller comes out.

- Over the longer term, release a BT solution for the majority of XIM users. Could start working on this straight away as I don't see what wired 'solution' other than plugging in a licensed 3rd party wired controller is realistically going to happen. Going for official Sony licensing seems to be a no go and I'm very pessimistic that Sony will patch the DS4.

That way it wouldn't be necessary to buy a third party device to use XIM (no return to the bad old days of XIM3 for PS3) but there would also be the option to go wired, with a third party device, and keep latency down. I'd go with the wired solution. If the DS4 adds input lag, all the better as I'll have an advantage over 95% of the other online players by using a wired controller.

Having said all that, I do admittedly use a wireless mouse (the R.A.T. 9 which uses RF and claims 1ms of input lag - I'm starting to wonder now if this is a total lie).
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 04:21 PM - 11/25/13
tbh i dont like the idea of using a third party controller to make the PS4 xim4 compatible
we all know how wide the variance of quality is with third party controllers, you just cannot rely on them

some gamestop controller allow you to use headsets, some dont
im sure you get what i mean, going with third party equipment is a lottery and can cause a big problem for the support section of the xim4 with all the potential failures


rather go wireless + official controller and wait for official ps4 wired support than going third party
you then can still add the usb connection to the xim4 once its available
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 04:27 PM - 11/25/13
tbh i dont like the idea of using a third party controller to make the PS4 xim4 compatible
we all know how wide the variance of quality is with third party controllers, you just cannot rely on them

some gamestop controller allow you to use headsets, some dont
im sure you get what i mean, going with third party equipment is a lottery and can cause a big problem for the support section of the xim4 with all the potential failures


rather go wireless + official controller and wait for official ps4 wired support than going third party
you then can still add the usb connection to the xim4 once its available

You're very optimistic that they will patch the DS4 to make it function as a wired controller at some point... I'm not... I dug this out of the official FAQ and pasted it into an earlier post:

Quote
What comes in the PS4 box at launch?
Youíll get a PS4 system with a 500GB hard drive, a DUALSHOCK 4 wireless controller, a micro-USB cable for charging the DUALSHOCK 4 controller

...additional DUALSHOCK 4 wireless controllers will retail for $59.99 (MSRP) each.

Seems pretty clear from the bolded wording that the DS4 has been deliberately designed as a wireless PS4 controller and that the USB cable is deliberately intended to be for charging and nothing else (at least when used on PS4). I don't see that they're going to change such a fundamental design feature of the controller without some serious pressure from e.g. MLG (I've done my bit to stir up some trouble on the MLG forums, btw :)).

The use of third party wired controllers could be at the user's risk, with BT being the official XIM solution.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 04:32 PM - 11/25/13
maybe leave a link to the topic so we can bump it from time to time
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 04:43 PM - 11/25/13
http://gamebattles.majorleaguegaming.com/forums/t/PS4-unusable-for-big-tournaments-8808908

I wouldn't overdo it as a load of new members registered in Nov 13 all posting on one thread will look dodgy. I wonder if Waldo2Point0, one of the people who replied (registered Nov 13) is one of us? :)

Very pessimistic that this is going anywhere, though. Wirelessness looks like a basic DS4 design feature and to get it changed will require some serious, heavy duty whining to Sony from people whose opinion they actually care about.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zombieguy on 05:08 PM - 11/25/13
Can you pair an Asus bluetooth to the PS4 controller?

Put the USB bluetooth into the controller port, then another a USB bluetooth into  a powered HUB on the other end of the XIM? Is this how it's going to work?

Or DS4 wired into the XIM and then XIM output Bluetooth signal of the DS4? I doubt this one as Im sure not all the authentication is all on the wired part which is why only 90% of the controller works on the PS3.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: reqless on 05:37 PM - 11/25/13
BT for maintaining official claim of being a pass-through of Sony's DS4. Optional upgrade for customers if/when a licensed third party controller is ever released. Just like buying a Belkin Transfer cable is optional for XIM Bridge.

Sounds like a solid plan to me and let's Obsiv maintain his status quo.

Q1 2014 date still sounding hopeful?

Can you pair an Asus bluetooth to the PS4 controller?

Put the USB bluetooth into the controller port, then another a USB bluetooth into  a powered HUB on the other end of the XIM? Is this how it's going to work?

Or DS4 wired into the XIM and then XIM output Bluetooth signal of the DS4? I doubt this one as Im sure not all the authentication is all on the wired part which is why only 90% of the controller works on the PS3.

No idea on how the hub&dongle connects to the Edge.

But unless I'm misunderstanding something, the XIM4/Edge beta would still feed into the DS4 (allowing it to be transparent).

XIM4 prototype hardware is verified to have BT support, but that was originally going to be used for smart phone config editing and connecting BT input devices. The dongle for the Edge beta was going to be used to beta test only this feature, not for trying to connect to the ps4.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 05:40 PM - 11/25/13
the cronus team already solved it, wired controllers on ps4
they made an adapter to make all current controllers compatible with PS4 WIRED!



http://www.youtube.com/v/-knog9jtwLE&hd=1


Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 05:48 PM - 11/25/13
http://gamebattles.majorleaguegaming.com/forums/t/PS4-unusable-for-big-tournaments-8808908

I wouldn't overdo it as a load of new members registered in Nov 13 all posting on one thread will look dodgy. I wonder if Waldo2Point0, one of the people who replied (registered Nov 13) is one of us? :)

Very pessimistic that this is going anywhere, though. Wireless looks like a basic DS4 design feature and to get it changed will require some serious, heavy duty whining to Sony from people whose opinion they actually care about.

I like how you posted a link to the Sony Playstation support page talking about DS4 problem. I can track both threads now.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: BiopticBiscuit on 05:53 PM - 11/25/13
the cronus team already solved it, wired controllers on ps4
they made an adapter to make all current controllers compatible with PS4 WIRED!

damnit.. looks like i'm forced to buy this.. order placed :(

Edit: Removed video from quote.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 05:54 PM - 11/25/13
That's the cronusmax. I already mentioned Cronus + XIM = next gen support. I think it's time someone " reverse engineered" their stuff
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: reqless on 05:56 PM - 11/25/13
the cronus team already solved it, wired controllers on ps4
they made an adapter to make all current controllers compatible with PS4 WIRED!


(http://images1.cliqueclack.com/p/wp-content/blogs.dir/8/files/2012/09/shocked.gif)

Wow peace. Can use all current versions of XIM with this.

Cronus is getting my money if Sony doesn't banhammer.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Rambos_BFF on 06:13 PM - 11/25/13
I saw that a bit earlier, wanted to make  sure someone posted that video. Interesting.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 06:14 PM - 11/25/13
And the competitor has one up on us already. Boooooooo
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 06:21 PM - 11/25/13
I saw that a bit earlier, wanted to make  sure someone posted that video. Interesting.

what video, link?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Rambos_BFF on 06:23 PM - 11/25/13
I saw that a bit earlier, wanted to make  sure someone posted that video. Interesting.

what video, link?

Sorry, I should have been more clear. The one that od1n posted.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 06:23 PM - 11/25/13
Hmm even though that video clearly shows the controllers working on ps4 I don't see anything on their website documenting it. I may have missed it but right now what I saw was that ds4 is functioning as a wired controller for other consoles using the cronus max.

Yep time to reverse engineer their reverse engineering lol.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 06:37 PM - 11/25/13
Wow peace. Can use all current versions of XIM with this.

Cronus is getting my money if Sony doesn't banhammer.

Thats the keypoint, theoretically all xims should work that way
No ST though ofc

Lets reverse engineer this lol!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 06:40 PM - 11/25/13
Wow peace. Can use all current versions of XIM with this.

Cronus is getting my money if Sony doesn't banhammer.

Thats the keypoint, theoretically all xims should work that way
No ST though ofc

Lets reverse engineer this lol!
We only need to find out how they enable the controllers over USB.  Looks like the thing runs through a PC then uses a wrapper to get the controllers working. I will NOT buy a Cronus. No ST.  NO. Accurate m/kb
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mindworm22 on 06:45 PM - 11/25/13
The gauntlet has been thrown down....
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Rambos_BFF on 06:51 PM - 11/25/13
Does this mean with their product I can use my xim3 on the xbone?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: glenn37216 on 06:53 PM - 11/25/13
the cronus team already solved it, wired controllers on ps4
they made an adapter to make all current controllers compatible with PS4 WIRED!




I ordered one a few days ago after I suggested this adpater in the 1st page of the thread. .

If it can't be somehow used for the Xim.. atleast I can use my 360 controller on the ps4 .. I hate the DS controller in racing games ..   :(
+1 FOR Cronus for making a device I can actually use this time .


Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 06:53 PM - 11/25/13
No it does not. It's a reverse engineered xim2. I reckon it's driven by the pc
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: reqless on 07:00 PM - 11/25/13
Whoah, whoah guys.

Stoked about the XIM3 and Edge on ps4, but they're hacking Sony's USB protocol so obviously the XIM team can't follow them. This is a short term solution and follows in the footsteps of what the other competitors do like XCM. Sony can patch/ban at anytime.

But it's a hell of a good short term solution for all of us until xim4. :)

Somebody who has an account on chronusMax forums ask about the input lag for the PS4. The device claims it adds ~1.2ms but I want to know if that specifically translates to the PS4.

Best case scenario, using a XIM3 or Edge with a xbox controller updating at 8ms + 1.2ms we're looking at an update rate of 9.2ms. That's a clear an improvement over the pseudo 16ms Bluetooth delay.

An official third party controller could allow for the 4ms (250hz) for XIM4 in the future, but 9.2ms would be pretty @#$% good for us.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 07:10 PM - 11/25/13
Here is their official announcement from their forum

http://www.cronusmax.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140587&s=4e7fd634b9cdc17e5b9f59b550ef9148
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 07:13 PM - 11/25/13
Does this mean with their product I can use my xim3 on the xbone?

I think so, I saw this comment in this thread...

Quote
Great news i'll place my order as soon as the PS4 and/or Xbox One are supported with old generation controllers. A lot of xim3 users will...

Here is the thread...

http://www.cronusmax.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140586 (http://www.cronusmax.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140586)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: BiopticBiscuit on 07:15 PM - 11/25/13
...

But it's a hell of a good short term solution for all of us until xim4. :)

...


Indeed it is.. I doubt OBsIV will go down this route however. Oh well, I'll use the CM (and their future update (I CAN'T WAIT)) until xim gets a better solution.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Rambos_BFF on 07:17 PM - 11/25/13
Does this mean with their product I can use my xim3 on the xbone?

I think so, I saw this comment in this thread...

Quote
Great news i'll place my order as soon as the PS4 and/or Xbox One are supported with old generation controllers. A lot of xim3 users will...

Here is the thread...

http://www.cronusmax.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140586 (http://www.cronusmax.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140586)

Well if true, at least I'll get some love out of my xim 3 since there is no beta. =) Until the xim4 comes out anyway.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 07:26 PM - 11/25/13
I see some of you posting over there to get the competition to work quicker lol.   ;D

http://www.cronusmax.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140526 (http://www.cronusmax.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140526)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: The Pfhor on 07:29 PM - 11/25/13
so did anyone so far tweeted yoshida about the issue?
i dont have twitter

also the playstation support forum seems to be pretty empty, except for our members no one posted there
anyone wants to open up a NeoGAF topic?
if so definitely also highlight the consequences of this (LAN, competitons, lag,...)

I have one and am about to.


EDIT: I just did.

(http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/ad263/Boltman35/tweetyosp_zps4582a151.png)

Me too:

(http://i.imgur.com/DcjCZKn.jpg)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 07:30 PM - 11/25/13
Very cool Pfhor!   ;)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: glenn37216 on 07:36 PM - 11/25/13
There's been atleast 10 tweets on the subject since yesterday and yet he just ignores us.  :-\
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: The Pfhor on 07:37 PM - 11/25/13
Very cool Pfhor!   ;)

Thanks Boltman!

ok, time to get a twatter. fu*k this rock was so comfy

Haha yeah, I have had a Twitter for a while, but I only recently made it my real name. I met a guy (while harvesting rice actually...it was for a school thing) who told me if I started tweeting big-wig game developers and stuff it would get my name out there...(my goal is to work at a game company someday, after my Navy contract runs out). I have been slacking on it though haha.

There's been atleast 10 tweets on the subject since yesterday and yet he just ignores us.  :-\

Well the more we keep doing it hopefully the more light it shines on the issue! I bet some big MLG gamers will eventually get on it. Maybe I will (google and) tweet some of them too...
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zombieguy on 07:40 PM - 11/25/13
Make that 11. I tweeted him yesterday as well!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Rambos_BFF on 07:47 PM - 11/25/13
To get this twitter thing going you guys would need someone with a lot of followers to tweet him. Still, no guarantee.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 07:56 PM - 11/25/13
Yeah 10-11 tweets a day probably wont even scratch the surfice. But you never know. The better route is to get katoku or someplace like that involved.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 08:04 PM - 11/25/13
the cronus team already solved it, wired controllers on ps4
they made an adapter to make all current controllers compatible with PS4 WIRED!

http://www.youtube.com/v/-knog9jtwLE&hd=1

We will investigate what they did to determine the legitimacy of the method. Remember, we aren't hackers or reverse engineers and have no desire to be. If it looks like their solution is taking advantage of some PS4 driver exploit, then, there is a high chance that a future update from Sony will render it useless. In which case, we'd never sell a product based on that method.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: menji on 08:21 PM - 11/25/13
OBsIV, note that they only show the menu exploration on the PS4 maybe they are just emulating a Playstation Move Navigation Controller. No "in game" footage yet.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 08:34 PM - 11/25/13
That thought did come to mind, but, I assume that they would have likely known that already?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: glenn37216 on 08:40 PM - 11/25/13
I have one coming in the mail .. I'd be glad to send it to ya Obsiv. A donation to the cause.   ;D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mindworm22 on 08:43 PM - 11/25/13
Aren't they just doing the Move thing?

*oops* was posting and saw this was just addressed. 
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: The Pfhor on 09:23 PM - 11/25/13
To get this twitter thing going you guys would need someone with a lot of followers to tweet him. Still, no guarantee.

I tweeted MLG and a couple other people too. I hope it helps!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: CUBIC1 on 09:40 PM - 11/25/13
the cronus team already solved it, wired controllers on ps4
they made an adapter to make all current controllers compatible with PS4 WIRED!



http://www.youtube.com/v/-knog9jtwLE&hd=1

as it seems its only work on the dash board but not in game
I assume there is something changing  whenever you start the game so that's why the CronusMax
would not work if you launch any game
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: The Pfhor on 09:45 PM - 11/25/13
Yeah 10-11 tweets a day probably wont even scratch the surfice. But you never know. The better route is to get katoku or someplace like that involved.


Just tweeted Kotaku, good idea!!

https://twitter.com/NikolaiLojek (https://twitter.com/NikolaiLojek)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 09:46 PM - 11/25/13
I have one coming in the mail .. I'd be glad to send it to ya Obsiv. A donation to the cause.   ;D

No need, thank you. Again, we will check out their solution (down at the USB protocol level) to understand how reliable of an approach it is (and how likely it will be bricked/banned).

One thing I should mention is that we've never observed any audio data over USB for the DS4. Meaning, wired headsets won't work.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mindworm22 on 10:20 PM - 11/25/13
Hmmmm.  I've got $$$ to burn on a headset for this generation.  This complicates things. 

Why can't Sony make it easy? 
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 10:26 PM - 11/25/13
No need, thank you. Again, we will check out their solution (down at the USB protocol level) to understand how reliable of an approach it is (and how likely it will be bricked/banned).

One thing I should mention is that we've never observed any audio data over USB for the DS4. Meaning, wired headsets won't work.

Though on PS4 you can just use a USB headset rather than use the controller jack, so it's a bit more flexible than is Xbox One. Right now my Astro wireless MixAmp is attached by USB to the PS4 and it works great. Most of the existing PS3 3rd party headsets are USB, so I don't think wired headsets into the controller will affect many people.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mindworm22 on 10:48 PM - 11/25/13
Hey Singlecoil -

I'm just venturing into headset territory -- would you buy that one again or get something different / better?

:::sorry to hijack -- will move to PM:::
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: The Pfhor on 10:57 PM - 11/25/13
Does this mean with their product I can use my xim3 on the xbone?

I think so, I saw this comment in this thread...

Quote
Great news i'll place my order as soon as the PS4 and/or Xbox One are supported with old generation controllers. A lot of xim3 users will...

Here is the thread...

http://www.cronusmax.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140586 (http://www.cronusmax.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140586)

Ok looks interesting...I actually picked up a Cronus a couple weeks ago, but I haven't even plugged the thing in yet... I will check to see if I can upgrade it to the MAX software and report back here when I get home tonight.

No need, thank you. Again, we will check out their solution (down at the USB protocol level) to understand how reliable of an approach it is (and how likely it will be bricked/banned).

One thing I should mention is that we've never observed any audio data over USB for the DS4. Meaning, wired headsets won't work.

Though on PS4 you can just use a USB headset rather than use the controller jack, so it's a bit more flexible than is Xbox One. Right now my Astro wireless MixAmp is attached by USB to the PS4 and it works great. Most of the existing PS3 3rd party headsets are USB, so I don't think wired headsets into the controller will affect many people.

Yeah I use a USB logitech right now and it works great.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 11:11 PM - 11/25/13
I have one coming in the mail .. I'd be glad to send it to ya Obsiv. A donation to the cause.   ;D

No need, thank you. Again, we will check out their solution (down at the USB protocol level) to understand how reliable of an approach it is (and how likely it will be bricked/banned).

One thing I should mention is that we've never observed any audio data over USB for the DS4. Meaning, wired headsets won't work.

some wired mics do work with PS4 by USB. my SAMSON G Track works with PS4 with no problems.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 11:38 PM - 11/25/13
If he would be able to translate ingame he would have shown, no doubt. But he can not.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 11:46 PM - 11/25/13
One thing Obsiv, seeing this made me immediately think I could use standard translators with this or use the XIM360 through it some day on the PS4 and right now on the ONE. Please reconsider standards in the XIM4. You dont want a single device of the competitor sold because you dont feel the standards are fit. They are until the STs come out 7-10 days after game release, they are for unsupported games and they are for hardcore gamers who dont want your vector calculation in between.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 12:19 AM - 11/26/13
Quote
If he would be able to translate ingame he would have shown, no doubt. But he can not.

He says 'Still much work to do'. Translation: I can't get any of this stuff to work ingame.


Somebody who has an account on chronusMax forums ask about the input lag for the PS4. The device claims it adds ~1.2ms but I want to know if that specifically translates to the PS4.

I'm just totally giving up on any attempt to understand input lag figures now. This makes even less sense to me than people throwing out expected input lag figures for the XIM Bluetooth off the top of their heads. :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 12:22 AM - 11/26/13
Sure, but do you really think Standards are good for unsupported games? Don't you remember how frustrating they were? I'm thinking some generic STs with some deadzone manipulation and ballistics may be better.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:29 AM - 11/26/13
We have never tried those generics and never could manipultate the deadzone. Right now using non fitting STs is frustrating while you seem to be unable to get games earlier to release STs fast. I wonder why we dont have the generics with deadzone tampering already, the call for standards is there since you dropped them with the edge.
But sure lets try those with the XIM4.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 12:32 AM - 11/26/13
Yay! It's happening. I asked for this one. It's going to help those unsupported aim modes we can't natively support. Vehicle, turrets, fully zoomed scopes, and unsupported games. This should help with those.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 12:56 AM - 11/26/13
mist, we will need to discuss in more detail about what knobs are appropriate and how they need to differ than what was in Smart Advanced.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:11 AM - 11/26/13
*Short campaign terminated*
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 01:19 AM - 11/26/13
I could go into detail Obsiv but I don't want to give things away. If we were to implement this feature we would only need two knobs in addition to what we already will provide. Ballistics will be a good acceleration replacement and we don't really need smoothness and diagonal dampen.

Template/Shape - The user will be able to choose from different look mechanic shapes that vary from circle to square and to the other various shapes we encounter.

Deadzone Size - The user needs to be able to reassign the ST's deadzone. The generic ST in this case.


I'll email you more details.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: glenn37216 on 01:32 AM - 11/26/13
Mist you think deazone shapes and sizes are a much different on this generation of games compared to the last ?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 01:39 AM - 11/26/13
Mist you think deazone shapes and sizes are a much different on this generation of games compared to the last ?

There were several unique look mechanics out there. I'm sure we will see more of that. This is ST deadzone reassignment idea could allow users to tackle those other look mechanic behaviors better than traditional standards ever could.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 02:19 AM - 11/26/13
PEOPLE PEOPLE. STOP TELLING THE GUYS OVER AT CRONUS MAX THAT TEAM XIM CAN'T DO PS4 support.
Don't by the Cronus. You WILL be disappointed.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 03:16 AM - 11/26/13
Sound good mist but I still dont understand why vectors have to be calculated at all then and why its different to standards then. The standards would be more direct as there would not be the useless calculation process that is based on what?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 03:53 AM - 11/26/13
You'd have to die if you knew that...  :P
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zombieguy on 06:09 AM - 11/26/13


Deadzone Size - The user needs to be able to reassign the ST's deadzone. The generic ST in this case.


Big example of this as you and discussed is the tank vehicles in battlefield.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 07:38 AM - 11/26/13
Hey Singlecoil -

I'm just venturing into headset territory -- would you buy that one again or get something different / better?

:::sorry to hijack -- will move to PM:::

I have the Turtle Beach DXL1 with DSS2, I just had to order the PS4 chat cable to make it work (it was around $6). The chat cable is just a 3.5mm to 2.5mm cable.

The headset works amazingly well with my PS4.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Turtle-Beach-DXL1-Headset-Bundle/dp/B0077MEFSM (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Turtle-Beach-DXL1-Headset-Bundle/dp/B0077MEFSM)

The chat cable I needed...

http://www.turtlebeach.com/product-detail/cables-parts/ps4-chat-cable/464 (http://www.turtlebeach.com/product-detail/cables-parts/ps4-chat-cable/464)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 07:46 AM - 11/26/13
Can you please multimeter the contacts? We can make that ourselves.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 08:27 AM - 11/26/13
No need, thank you. Again, we will check out their solution (down at the USB protocol level) to understand how reliable of an approach it is (and how likely it will be bricked/banned).

One thing I should mention is that we've never observed any audio data over USB for the DS4. Meaning, wired headsets won't work.


So a CronusMAX Dev who now posts here on our forums has confirmed much of the speculation in this thread in another thread on our boards.

http://www.xim3.com/community/index.php?topic=29561.0 (http://www.xim3.com/community/index.php?topic=29561.0)


Here is what he said...


That just  Proof Of Concept & Progress  , there is USB Communication up to the point the Game loads Even after , PS4 Loads the Game But Ignores it and listen to the Bluetooth Data instead , Sony must have this Disable as this is how PS3 Exploited before and was able to Run Custom FW and Unsigned codes. 

A. Sony has USB  Block and will no Unlock Till they Decide is Time and  3rd Party can make New Devices

C. command can be send to force PS4 to listen for USB instead of Bluetooth   

D. Or Bluetooth connection on PS4 is the only Option But there is Lag issue , Since there is So much Data being send , Need fast Processer to Handel the Load, Current CronusMax hardware Could not Handel that
there for a new Device is Needed.

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 08:34 AM - 11/26/13
Yeah proof of concept my a.ss. Tricking people into buying the device. What a prick.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 08:36 AM - 11/26/13
I knew them cronusmax boys were full of @#$%. Same prob we have. Anyone can get 360 joypad to work the dashboard. The Sony nav works that way. As soon as you load into a game..nothin hahahahahahahahahahahah stupid Cronus @#$%
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 08:36 AM - 11/26/13
Yeah proof of concept my a.ss. Tricking people into buying the device. What a prick.

lol

Why so upset Roads?

I think the keyword there would be "concept", maybe I'm misunderstanding his intentions or you are overacting, not sure which is the case.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 08:44 AM - 11/26/13
I explained to really experienced Ximmers itís a hoax, they all believed this was real. Its tricking and fake.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 08:45 AM - 11/26/13
Yeah proof of concept my a.ss. Tricking people into buying the device. What a prick.

lol

Why so upset Roads?

I think the keyword there would be "concept", maybe I'm misunderstanding his intentions or you are overacting, not sure which is the case.
He never said it was proof of concept. Goto the cronusmax homepage. They are claiming FULL compatibilty on their homepage
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joey McCamper on 08:46 AM - 11/26/13
Roads, make the turtle chase the Cronus dev away.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 08:46 AM - 11/26/13
He never said it was proof of concept. Goto the cronusmax homepage. They are claiming FULL compatibilty on their homepage


Fair enough, I stand corrected.

I was merely quoting what he posted here, nothing more.

He then said this (obviously you probably already read it yourself in the thread lol)...

That video was Just Progress of what was done and where we at over past weekend there was reason did not show Game play as I stated before the console Stop USB Once the game loads and Will only work thru Bluetooth , but what is interesting the data over usb still being send and system see it but choose to ignore it


and I just came to help  The Pfhor since there is no Support in Cronus H1 Device ,
and he got the Wrong device By Mistake
and he was pretty cool about it so did not see any harm ,
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: kolo73 on 09:15 AM - 11/26/13
Discussion from Playstation Forum.
Frag FX Shark with PS4

http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-General/Frag-FX-Shark-with-PS4/td-p/42167747

The third answer is interesting.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 09:19 AM - 11/26/13
I know three experienced Ximmers who ordered this crap on this misinformation. Devs must take care NOT GIVING INFORMATION CAN BE A LIE
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 09:21 AM - 11/26/13
Spending money on @#$% you don't know about is a crime in itself.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 09:33 AM - 11/26/13
Seems as though YOU CAN BUY the chips straight from Sony.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: tuffrabit on 09:55 AM - 11/26/13
Seems as though YOU CAN BUY the chips straight from Sony.

Links?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 09:57 AM - 11/26/13
Seems as though YOU CAN BUY the chips straight from Sony.

if so then problem should be solved...right?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 10:02 AM - 11/26/13
Seems as though YOU CAN BUY the chips straight from Sony.

Links?
Uuuuuurrrrrr. Contact Sony is all I can say. How would I know. If fragfx and everyone else buys the chips then surely OB can.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 10:05 AM - 11/26/13
Here we go tuff...have some of that BOOM
http://develop.scee.net/middleware
Read the bottom bit.
Might be able to get a driver off them
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joey McCamper on 10:15 AM - 11/26/13
www.tmstation.scei.co.jp

About to apply .... But looks like it might be possible.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: pepsicosmos on 10:29 AM - 11/26/13
thats the way obsiv must go!
I was hoping it will be patched...
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 10:32 AM - 11/26/13
Apparently the license doesn't cover hardware. @#$%. Back to the www
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 10:34 AM - 11/26/13
Obsiv you should check  the RC tester area for Cronusmax IPs. Its ridiculous they just spy in here.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 10:36 AM - 11/26/13
They need eachother I think.  :P
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 10:42 AM - 11/26/13
They need eachother I think.  :P
They most certainly do.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 10:44 AM - 11/26/13
Yes we can buy chips from Sony, but, I'd rather not. If go that route it means Sony will force us to have multiple SKUs (i.e. no more single device for all consoles). Besides, we aren't MadCatz. Our product isn't a peripheral. It allows you to use other non-Sony peripherals. I can certainly look into it, but, my concern is the restrictions that come with it.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 10:54 AM - 11/26/13
So...32bit ARM processor in xim4...sweeeeeeet
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mindworm22 on 11:13 AM - 11/26/13
From a business perspective it never hurts to look.  An hours conversation with a rep -- who will *want* to sell you some chips -- should get you all you need to know.  That being said, if you had the Sony chip and your device also allowed support of other game controllers as a "bonus"....who knows?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 11:18 AM - 11/26/13
Still wondering what Sony is going to do about tournament play (if anything at all).
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 11:21 AM - 11/26/13
They will charge MLG to make their own wired controller and have to buy the license from Sony, thats what theyre gonna do.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: pepsicosmos on 11:29 AM - 11/26/13
but sony will not allow wired controller, only bluetooth is the new program santi ;-)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 11:32 AM - 11/26/13
Still wondering what Sony is going to do about tournament play (if anything at all).

i don't think Sony is worried about tournament play on PS4 with DS4 being that the controller still works and charges when plugged up. maybe Sony will allow MLG the make wired controllers.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 11:33 AM - 11/26/13
They have to allow them. The fighting joysticks for Streetfighter are never wireless. And couple of other peripherals.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 11:34 AM - 11/26/13
They have to allow them. The fighting joysticks for Streetfighter are never wireless. And couple of other peripherals.

true dat bro...i was just going to mention the fight scene. i have an MK9 and Injustice fightstick that i want to use so maybe they might let those pass through.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 11:38 AM - 11/26/13
From things I've heard they beleive the way they've optimised it over bt its faster than it ever was. Dont know if its hype or fact but I'm sure well find out soon.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 11:39 AM - 11/26/13
That license hardware they sell is not some small coded BT adapter pcb, right? That would be a crazy good move to control hardware used.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zacharybinx34 on 11:45 AM - 11/26/13
Am I correct in assuming that the XIM4 won't release until you have a viable working solution for PS4?

=(

XBONE > PS4!

=)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 11:55 AM - 11/26/13
I dont think he can answer that yet but he wont wait forever for the PS4. He needs an income.
Lets do that Beta. Need info on that BT dongle please.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 12:14 PM - 11/26/13
I dont think he can answer that yet but he wont wait forever for the PS4. He needs an income.
Lets do that Beta. Need info on that BT dongle please.

agreed. lets just move on with to the beta using BT and get players using their favorite mouse on PS4. im sure people will be satisfied with BT for now.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zacharybinx34 on 12:18 PM - 11/26/13
Roads didn't you get a PS4?

beta doesn't help me. I don't have an Edge. =(
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 12:20 PM - 11/26/13
I dont think he can answer that yet but he wont wait forever for the PS4. He needs an income.
Lets do that Beta. Need info on that BT dongle please.

I want that info as well, I'm hoping the Asus one will work as I have one already.

If not no worries, I'll just buy whatever model it is he says is compatible.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 12:22 PM - 11/26/13
Roads didn't you get a PS4?

beta doesn't help me. I don't have an Edge. =(

Go find one off Ebay or something, or maybe someone here has an extra one?

I have a second Edge, but my son uses it.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 12:25 PM - 11/26/13
XIM EDGE on Amazon pricing :o : http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00A7PZAR6/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:27 PM - 11/26/13
Roads didn't you get a PS4?

beta doesn't help me. I don't have an Edge. =(

You will find plenty of Edges here from the PS4 people. I guess Obsiv will tolerate some iquiries for pm.
I bought the Bone the day I heard the PS4 problems. I will keep it I think. I will still get the PS4 on Friday but wont open it until the problem is solved. I also have an Edge. So :

(http://www.deltaattack.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/my-body-is-ready-muscles.png)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 12:29 PM - 11/26/13
XIM EDGE on Amazon pricing :o : http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00A7PZAR6/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new

Holy crap!

Is that what they're selling for now online!?

$250- to $300-!?

Jeez what a markup, maybe I ought to take my extra Edge (sons' copy) and sell it lol.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 12:31 PM - 11/26/13
XIM EDGE on Amazon pricing :o : http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00A7PZAR6/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new

Holy crap!

Is that what they're selling for now online!?

$250- to $300-!?

Jeez what a markup, maybe I ought to take my extra Edge (sons' copy) and sell it lol.

lol.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: gibkeeg on 12:50 PM - 11/26/13
Guys, don't we already have enough info about wired USB devices to have an answer?  Sony is going to allow all the "Licensed"  wired USB Arcade Sticks, race wheels people want as long as the "game developer" allows it.  Proof being that the wired controller DS4 inputs aren't ignored in dashboard, it's ignored "IN GAME".  The head honcho at Sony has already said this on Twitter.

It's very obvious to me that this is a anti piracy mechanism.  No more Firmware hacks via USB.  If you want your wired MLG/ARCADE/FLIGHTSTICK/Racewheel to work, you license with Sony, Sony releases the valid licensed controller list/unique hardware id's to the game devs,  the game dev's allow them to work via wired usb.

Here's what I think we're going to be dealing with for this gen for PS4.  In all these cases the XIM4 works fine because of USB passthrough, but it's  matter if we have to buy different controllers for each game/game type.

Best case example,  SCUF creates a "generic" PS4 wired Tournement edition MLG low latency controller.  It's officially licensed, there for the PS4 accepts it's unique licensed hardware id .  Therefore it works in dashboard, and FPS game developers "UNIVERSALLY" accept this controller and allow it in game. 

Worst case example, SCUF creates a "generic" PS4 wired Tournement edition MLG low latency controller.  It's officially licensed, there for the PS4 accepts it's unique licensed hardware id .  Therefore it works in dashboard, and FPS game developers "Selectively" accept the controller and allow it in game. 

Even worst case example,  Game developer for ultra popular FPS game "X" strikes deal with 3rd party vendor to only allow their wired controller to work on the FPS game "X". 

I think a bluetooth passthrough method is our only real option right now until someone releases a 3rd party wired controller that is universally allowed and accepted by game developers.  I believe 99% of the XIM PS4 user base would "deal" with latency.  I know I would.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: nobodyfamous on 12:57 PM - 11/26/13
Roads didn't you get a PS4?

beta doesn't help me. I don't have an Edge. =(

You will find plenty of Edges here from the PS4 people. I guess Obsiv will tolerate some iquiries for pm.
I bought the Bone the day I heard the PS4 problems. I will keep it I think. I will still get the PS4 on Friday but wont open it until the problem is solved. I also have an Edge. So :

(http://www.deltaattack.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/my-body-is-ready-muscles.png)

i did the same thing...
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:01 PM - 11/26/13
The suspenders and the look?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: nobodyfamous on 01:14 PM - 11/26/13
both... xbox 1 and the suspenders ... im actually a level 2 bodybuilder LOL just not that big ill try and find the picture when i get home from work youll laugh
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 01:24 PM - 11/26/13
Still wondering what Sony is going to do about tournament play (if anything at all).

i think recommend 3rd partys will be the anything if they don't go the nothing route. they could do a FW update, when is the first big enough tournament ?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sgt8Bit on 01:56 PM - 11/26/13
Am I correct in assuming that the XIM4 won't release until you have a viable working solution for PS4?

=(

XBONE > PS4!

=)

I hope not.  I hope they go full steam ahead with the Xbox One XIM4E testing and worry about PS4 later.....
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:01 PM - 11/26/13
Arms processor, this means he broke the mem border, this is awesome. No more whining about the features not fitting :D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: wunderdunce on 02:38 PM - 11/26/13
I am also waiting on confirmation of what type of BT adapter needed and if we need a USB 3.0 Hub or not.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: tuffrabit on 02:41 PM - 11/26/13
It's probably the same BT adapter the Sony Nav needs.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:42 PM - 11/26/13
Now when was probably enough to place an order?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: wunderdunce on 02:42 PM - 11/26/13
Yea that what I was thinking I was going to order the Asus BT211 but someone advised that I wait a bit.  ;D

And

(http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/591/725/5b6.gif)

is also ready:  8)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 02:49 PM - 11/26/13
i think most people here missed the key message that the cronus dev gave us:

That just  Proof Of Concept & Progress  , there is USB Communication up to the point the Game loads Even after , PS4 Loads the Game But Ignores it and listen to the Bluetooth Data instead , Sony must have this Disable as this is how PS3 Exploited before and was able to Run Custom FW and Unsigned codes.


that means if Sony truly does make some third party controller (eg MLG) usb compatible they will face the problem once more with custom firmwares, hacks and usb injections
thats a point we never considered cause this forum isnt a hacking forum!

at no point will sony go that route again, therefore i assume the chance to ever see a usb only controller is very very small!








Yes we can buy chips from Sony, but, I'd rather not. If go that route it means Sony will force us to have multiple SKUs (i.e. no more single device for all consoles).

all xims will ship with the sony licence chip inbuilt which makes it multiplat again
that way you cut down the costs per unit by a big margin as you can allocate the chip costs to all units

also Xbox One customers are used to pay extra for stuff they dont need, see kinect, nfl and other stuff
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sgt8Bit on 02:54 PM - 11/26/13
There has been understandably a lot of chatter regarding PS4 and XIM4.  But how's the development for XIM4 on Xbox One?  Any issues on that front or smooth sailing?  Forgive me if this was already posted somewhere...
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 02:58 PM - 11/26/13
all xims will ship with the sony licence chip inbuilt which makes it multiplat again
that way you cut down the costs per unit by a big margin as you can allocate the chip costs to all units

also Xbox One customers are used to pay extra for stuff they dont need, see kinect, nfl and other stuff

so you guys are going to buy Sony license chips right?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 03:01 PM - 11/26/13
no but its an idea, obsiv prefers the xim4 to run on all platforms

the chip cant be that expensive, splitfish is dirt cheap to buy and still they have a win gap
id say 10-15$ max for the chip depending on the quantities you buy
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 03:05 PM - 11/26/13
Guys, don't we already have enough info about wired USB devices to have an answer?  Sony is going to allow all the "Licensed"  wired USB Arcade Sticks, race wheels people want as long as the "game developer" allows it.  Proof being that the wired controller DS4 inputs aren't ignored in dashboard, it's ignored "IN GAME".  The head honcho at Sony has already said this on Twitter.

Can you link to the tweet? I'm interested to see exactly what he's said.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: nobodyfamous on 03:11 PM - 11/26/13
so are you saying the xim4 will be fine for ps4 ? just wont be able to use xim4e right ?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zombieguy on 03:16 PM - 11/26/13
https://www.facebook.com/SonyPlaystation

We could post there and ask why did you destroy MLG Tournament gaming?

I started.. A lot of people read and visit there. Hopefully enough will catch on and put some pressure on.

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 03:19 PM - 11/26/13
We want to avoid customers having to buy additional hardware. We are seriously looking at the Bluetooth path. Once that investigation is done, we will know what the best course of action is. It may be trying for a license, but, that's not guaranteed.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: lh82p on 03:19 PM - 11/26/13
look at this:

http://www.playm.de/2013/11/playstation-4-logitech-arbeitet-am-support-lenkrader-126768/


logitech is working on a support for ps3 usb wheels for the ps4. i think this is also a good signal for a 100percent usb support in the issue to use a pephireial over a usb input...
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 03:28 PM - 11/26/13
We want to avoid customers having to buy additional hardware. We are seriously looking at the Bluetooth path. Once that investigation is done, we will know what the best course of action is. It may be trying for a license, but, that's not guaranteed.

that sounds perfectly logical.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zombieguy on 03:28 PM - 11/26/13
We want to avoid customers having to buy additional hardware. We are seriously looking at the Bluetooth path. Once that investigation is done, we will know what the best course of action is. It may be trying for a license, but, that's not guaranteed.

I have no issues to buy additional hardware to get the XIM4E to work on the PS4.  I am on board for whatever we need for beta testing.

I am sure there is a lot more here as well and when the XIM4 is released it's all in one or wired is available!

Meanwhile I am willing to do anything, well almost anything to get going on the PS4:)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 03:41 PM - 11/26/13
It may be trying for a license, but, that's not guaranteed.

thats all i ask for, at least explore that path to see what financial result it gives
establishing a connection to sony + asking doesnt cost anything
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 03:49 PM - 11/26/13
It may be trying for a license, but, that's not guaranteed.

thats all i ask for, at least explore that path to see what financial result it gives
establishing a connection to sony + asking doesnt cost anything

+1, and i'm sure there are a lot of other +1's
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 03:57 PM - 11/26/13
+1
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: JerginsSoft on 04:06 PM - 11/26/13
Indeed there are... official licensing would be a boon, and a competitive edge... pardon the pun.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 04:11 PM - 11/26/13
a competitive edge... pardon the pun.

my hat has been taken off at your sighting sir.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Fade2Blak on 05:01 PM - 11/26/13
Most licensing agreements are implemented as such 1)A predetermined amount of product must be purchased at inception   2) A predetermined amount of quarterly sales must be met 3) Royalties of predetermined amounts must be paid quarterly regardless of sales numbers.      In the fine print you will read that if any or all of these conditions are not met then the license can be voided and your chip ID will be locked out of the system.    Just a few ideas to think about when considering buying chips. USB is still the best alternative for a XIM product because in reality neither Sony or MS even know it is there.   having worked the last 14 years in product purchasing, I know how the big boys secure their cash input while handcuffing the small business owner.  Honestly I would venture to say that if you approach a Sony rep without at least  half a million in sales over the last four quarters then they arent even going to entertain the idea of granting you an official license.  Just a viewpoint from someone that knows all too well how the other side of the fence works.    In my opinion they will firmware patch the USB protocol but not until a viable batch of games are on the market that warrant the risk/reward of the firmware hacks of last gen.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 05:09 PM - 11/26/13
yes because it took nearly 6 years or 5 for people to finally be able to crack PS3 and now after a batch of games it makes all the difference when to risk that again or not. yeah. so legit.

there are no quarterly sales demands for some people licensed by Sony last gen. some of them could not ever meet them no matter what even, so that does not seem accurate at all in that regard. plus you can get a case by case agreement from Sony, so generic info really doesn't apply further than generic for a specific case.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 05:24 PM - 11/26/13
big boys secure their cash input while handcuffing the small business owner

Yes, something that is a very real concern for sure.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 05:28 PM - 11/26/13
Ask Sony, they gave out free dev-units even to the smallest dev studios that asked for it
I doubt such high agreements will be the case with Sony as a company like splitfish can also meet the security chip agreements while maintaining their win margin

And splitfish product sales should be lower than xim edge sales
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Fade2Blak on 05:29 PM - 11/26/13
So if you went to Sony and said if you sell me 100 chips then I will sell 100 products in a year, you honestly think they would even entertain your idea?    I think you need to realize you are dealing with a division of Sony, not Sony itself.   Each division has quarterly goals to meet in order to appease stock holders.  They could care less about a small (to them) gaming community.   Both Sony and MS LOSE money on the console sales.  They intend to make this up in licensing fee agreements.  If you cant guarantee them a substantial gain to their bottom line then they have no need for you.   Logitech and Madcatz can afford to purchase 100k worth of chips because os the many SKUs they sell so the hit will not be officially felt.  I am sure even if they told ObSiv he could purchase 25k worth (which to them would be a pittance) I am sure he would have to factor in the predicted amount of sales since he will only have one SKU for sale.  I am sure he will see that the unknown greatly outweighs the known as far as the fiscal future of his company.  From a consumer standpoint it sounds simple, get the license, buy the chips, sell me one.  From a manufacturers standpoint is carries way more ramifications and processes. 
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 05:37 PM - 11/26/13
Can't underestimate the motivation behind all the decisions corporations make: money.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 05:42 PM - 11/26/13
And still asking them for the real requirements for such a deal doesnt cost a dollar lol
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Fade2Blak on 05:44 PM - 11/26/13
I know ObSiv wants to appease all his loyal fanbase and I am sure he is working on the best financial implementation for his company.  I for one want to see him succeed in building a quality product that his reputation has maintained for years and also financially, which his team deserves for the innovation to the industry.  Innovation being the key word, not following.  I have faith the XIM team will have a solution in place that will appease the masses in due time.  A bump in the road wont be fatal, just a minor speedchange to correct the course.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 05:53 PM - 11/26/13
Can't underestimate the motivation behind all the decisions corporations make: money.

you yourself are doing just that. i can name you quite a few company names a lot smaller than you that get licenses. you know why? not only because they make their living or try but also because Sony wants to make money. the more niches and products there are for your platform the better as long as you don't open the garden to those pesky and nasty weeds.

that guy speaks as if short term sure gains are the only factor in a business that makes sh1tons of money indirectly: consoles bear no profit, marketing, covering niches, etc

all those words can be resumed simply in one: fearmongering. particularly from someone who was previously saying XIM should drop Sony support overall. where were that business knowledge and experience then?


Personally I think this is where the XIM went awry with trying to keep making one product to fit all consoles.
If it was still an xbox device I am sure developement would  be cut in half.  Now we have to wait until the PS4 interface is figured out with the controller changing so much internally.  I personally bought the xim3 as a xbox accessory at the higher rate because it was the best thing (and still is) for PC gamers to get in the console world.  The edge seemed to work great as a cross platform device but with their controller changes on next gen consoles it now makes the xbox players have to wait on developement.  Since inception this device had xbox gamers as its core audience and focus. Sad to see that has changed and now we all have to grind thru extended wait times just to get the PS4 included in a single device.  Personally I think if it was a two device set up then the One owners wouldnt have the wait times involved. Just a reformed PC gamers personal opinion shared nicely.

great to see you no being so nice to trolls OBsIV when you ignore sometimes so many users that talk to you with reasonable things and some of them with proven knowledge in the subjects they speak of that have been known in the forums for years (and i'm not talking about myself at all)

all that guy wants is to get his XIM asap. pushing for a XIM Xbox and a XIM PS by fear mongering seeing as being elitist may not work so well.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zombieguy on 05:58 PM - 11/26/13
(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/739/bgj6.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/841/bgj6.png/)

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 06:25 PM - 11/26/13
ak-xs, it would likely take *longer* to go through a licensing process (which we may be rejected) then just create a BT passthrough. Licensing is a hardware/software/contract/deals problem, BT for us is just software.

Also, there are no extended wait times. We won't hold up the X1 release for PS4. I'm not sure why anyone got that impression. When PS4 support comes online, everyone will just get it.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Thera6179 on 06:36 PM - 11/26/13
Great,
           I'd say go ahead with Xbox360/XB1/PS3 suppport and it will happen for PS4 when it will happen. I am putting my money down for it now that my Edge is selling on ebay for more than what I bought for  ;D.

           And this is exactly why I did not jump the ship and buy a PS4 before you guys supported it fully. I will buy PS4 when XIM4 supports it fully. PS3 all the way till then.

You guys rock.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 06:37 PM - 11/26/13
To be honest I'm starting to think the licensing route is a bit unattractive. On the financial side I still don't think there would be any harm in at least asking and seeing what the deal is. But reading some of the other threads on here is seems Treyarch/ IW have made statements about how they want to ban XIM (but pretty much admitting they have zero ability to detect it). However, if XIM worked through an official Sony license maybe that would provide a straightforward way for them to ban it if so inclined. An official license might also increase the volume of complaints from controller players.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 06:42 PM - 11/26/13
ak-xs, it would likely take *longer* to go through a licensing process (which we may be rejected) then just create a BT passthrough. Licensing is a hardware/software/contract/deals problem, BT for us is just software.
oh of course. which is why BT seems the way to go for now until new details on USB come, while talks about licensing should be started to start grinding that time. it's not like you are forced to choose one or the other, you can do them simultaneously. also licensing doesn't have to be done now as long as there are working alternatives, it's just the sooner it starts the sooner it ends if it ever does end well...

and imho you should wait other USB solutions before making the final license deal. because you should be able to weight if you really want the "official" term that much that wyou will pay X for it or just go with a USB solution that comes up if one does come up.

Also, there are no extended wait times. We won't hold up the X1 release for PS4. I'm not sure why anyone got that impression. When PS4 support comes online, everyone will just get it.

because people assume a lot of stuff. glad now we can quote you to put rumors to rest
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 06:43 PM - 11/26/13
i think most people here missed the key message that the cronus dev gave us:

That just  Proof Of Concept & Progress  , there is USB Communication up to the point the Game loads Even after , PS4 Loads the Game But Ignores it and listen to the Bluetooth Data instead , Sony must have this Disable as this is how PS3 Exploited before and was able to Run Custom FW and Unsigned codes.


that means if Sony truly does make some third party controller (eg MLG) usb compatible they will face the problem once more with custom firmwares, hacks and usb injections
thats a point we never considered cause this forum isnt a hacking forum!

at no point will sony go that route again, therefore i assume the chance to ever see a usb only controller is very very small!

The Cronus dev seems a nice guy but this is just his theory and I think it's wrong. Better surely to read the official Sony statements. And they've said that licensed third party USB controllers will be supported. Unfortunately they also describe the DS4 as wireless only in several places...
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 06:51 PM - 11/26/13
But reading some of the other threads on here is seems Treyarch/ IW have made statements about how they want to ban XIM (but pretty much admitting they have zero ability to detect it).


However, if XIM worked through an official Sony license maybe that would provide a straightforward way for them to ban it if so inclined. An official license might also increase the volume of complaints from controller players.

that's the magic shield of USB passthrough ^^
no one can do anything about it short of MS/Sony banning people that appear to use an adapter.

indeed it would be a double edge sword. be good for us to say "hey this is official so go cry somewhere else" but then they would go cry to Sony and Sony could very well listen because they outnumber us and we are indeed breaking the leveled playing field xD

but if that campaign started it would be great timing to shift blame to devs that haven't managed the mouse situation very well at all. and now that dedicated servers should be more abundant, at least for multiplats there are solutions that would enable everyone to blame Devs and free MS/Sony and us from guilt. devs would just need to implement a fragmentation on their player bases which is what they want to avoid for good reasons. playing with PC folks would be good in all aspects except cheating/hacking...

here is the million dollar question:

are we a small enough niche that they can ignore mouse support but are we big enough community playing with mice that they need to end us?

seriously, controller players outnumber us what?10:1?100:1?1000:1? do we really disrupt their games that much? well then if we were official they could just buy a XIM too, like people with better TVs or better headsets have an advantage, or worse, people closer to servers. XIM doesn't make everyone instantly better than the best controller players, so they are just crying they suck and i'm sure if you give them a mouse they will still suck making they crys moot.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Fade2Blak on 06:59 PM - 11/26/13
Correct PSE, that is why the talk of licensing is ludicrous.  You basically give Sony the control to kill your device at anytime they want.  The way Sony words things, it seems the ability to use wired anything will be written into the game code itself, not the PS4.  They keep stating that developers will be able to use this feature if so inclined.  So i am thinking maybe a packet in the game data itself will turn off the BT input.  This would make sense also as the hack/flash could still be avoided while allowing the use of wheels, fight sticks etc etc.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: gibkeeg on 07:40 PM - 11/26/13
Im telling you guys ,  wired usb support is in the hands of the game devs. They will decide support for specific 3rd party controllers. Ifyou want a generic catch all solution BT passthrough is going to be the only option.  The best case scenario would be a popular company creates a   wired controller that gets a close to universal support as possible , allowing usb passthrough . I wouldn't  hold my breathe.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 07:43 PM - 11/26/13
An official license is more trouble than it's worth, I believe. First, if Sony really reviews the device, I'd say there's about a zero percent chance that they'd approve it. I doubt they want to encourage mouse and keyboard players to flood the market. Additionally, as OBsIV has stated, they'd almost certainly want heavy restrictions on the device, like not being Xbox compatible and/or putting restrictions on the devices that may be used with it.

The BT passthrough sounds like an infinitely more attractive option.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 08:00 PM - 11/26/13
Correct PSE, that is why the talk of licensing is ludicrous.  You basically give Sony the control to kill your device at anytime they want.  The way Sony words things, it seems the ability to use wired anything will be written into the game code itself, not the PS4.  They keep stating that developers will be able to use this feature if so inclined.  So i am thinking maybe a packet in the game data itself will turn off the BT input.  This would make sense also as the hack/flash could still be avoided while allowing the use of wheels, fight sticks etc etc.

makes complete sense that game studios will hand pick 3rd party controllers to turn on. epic facepalm. madcatz, razer and logictech would really love to have their controllers for next gen conditioned by game studios coding for them or not...

of course game devs can turn keyboard and mice on if they want to, they need to code it too since the native support is minimal and not prepared to handle gaming at all. much like that they can support individual peripherals or generic...


several hardware companies have started to work on PS4 support for existing products. you think they are calling studios asking for them to code a patch for their games to support their devices? or that they are just working on implementing whatever solution Sony gave them that will work on any game (compatible)?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 08:09 PM - 11/26/13
Game makers can assume a base level of controller functionality though the DS4 (such as the touchpad). If 3rd party doesn't meet those basic requirements, they won't function on all games. Not sure how that's going to play out.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: glenn37216 on 08:12 PM - 11/26/13
Yes we can buy chips from Sony, but, I'd rather not. If go that route it means Sony will force us to have multiple SKUs (i.e. no more single device for all consoles). Besides, we aren't MadCatz. Our product isn't a peripheral. It allows you to use other non-Sony peripherals. I can certainly look into it, but, my concern is the restrictions that come with it.

So if it's decided a licensed chip is required to get the ps4 supported on the Xim I think the only route Sony would allow is to make the device ps4 supported only.
    I know it's not practical but there need's to be some thought into making two separate Xim4's ... One for each console. Get started on the Xbox one device and wait until more is known about usb controllers before anything is done on the ps4 version. BT Lag is not an option I would like to see anyways.

 I don't see how you could start finalizing hardware specs when there is just too much of the "unknown" with Sony's use of USB restrictions. You could be waiting months for a workable solution...



Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Rambos_BFF on 08:25 PM - 11/26/13
I agree with Glenn, I think it's time to consider a device for each console. Xbone is a go, is it not? Or perhaps an updated xim4 when you can get the PS4 figured out.

Unless the PS4 dudes are okay with just bluetooth,  but I can't imagine that  being ideal.  If you know for sure one console is going to work I suppose it would make sense to focus on that.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: TheCityWok on 08:29 PM - 11/26/13
Sony pulled some BS I would expect from M$. Should have went with the gut and bought the one first. Dang amazon impulse buy. Oh well  :(. Time to play the waiting game.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 08:31 PM - 11/26/13
It'll likely work and we are going to be looking at it seriously. And yes, X1 isn't looking like its going to be an issue.

And yes, X1 went the PS3 way and PS4 went the X360 way. Very unexpected.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sgt8Bit on 08:44 PM - 11/26/13
Also, there are no extended wait times. We won't hold up the X1 release for PS4. I'm not sure why anyone got that impression. When PS4 support comes online, everyone will just get it.

Thank goodness!  This is all I need to hear.  Bring on the Beta!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 08:55 PM - 11/26/13
And yes, X1 went the PS3 way and PS4 went the X360 way. Very unexpected.

indeed. was it really unexpected? saying one expected anything now is pointless but after what happened with the PS3 jailbreak, banhammer and all isn't this quite predictable? just like Sony making the DS4 better overall and particularly for FPS..

Sony was bound to make a move on USB devices since it was the only way to crack their system, hacking ruined their PSP and overall handheld gaming side with the help from a uber powerful but uber expensive Vita. PS4 could not be at any risk whatsoever and being x86 does not stand for a good incentive on that..

no one knew how exactly they would choose to go about it, but they were surely going to try something.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: nobodyfamous on 09:06 PM - 11/26/13
Im not really following... So ps4 would need an extra controller like we needed te wired controller on 360? Instead of simply just plug and play?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: gibkeeg on 09:31 PM - 11/26/13
Obsiv, what hurdles besides latency is there to get Bluetooth passthrough working?  Is there any decryption needed?  Or is it simple UID Spoofing? 
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 09:35 PM - 11/26/13
Some things that come in to my mind.

- 2 xims, dont like not because of the money but because of handling two devices, roads like it comfy and automatized. Devices are still way too stupid.

- BT like this, although would like to have this for both consoles, so maybe add an RF. NT is also great as the competitors may not be able to follow and if they do they need to make more expensive devices that makes them look less on the market.

- phone apps. I betatested apps on the Iphone and in all of them I had to install a software that was either directly bound to my UDID or it was a software that installed the beta on my Iphone after I read out my UDID. Both needed a registration process that took time. Can we start that already for the Beta? This or releaseing a program at apples takes about two weeks. Just take that in mind. We dont want to wait because of Apple. The big firms just on our nerves enough.

thatís all for now
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 11:07 PM - 11/26/13
If there is an iPhone app that is used for remote sync, then Testflight is a great tool so that you don't have to mess around with iOS developer accounts or UDID stuff:
http://testflightapp.com/

It works for Android also. It's also free and works well.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 11:15 PM - 11/26/13
Yes I was also using testflight.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Fade2Blak on 12:26 AM - 11/27/13
Game makers can assume a base level of controller functionality though the DS4 (such as the touchpad). If 3rd party doesn't meet those basic requirements, they won't function on all games. Not sure how that's going to play out.
                                      At least you understand that.  Some people just cant wrap their mind around how all this works. For the touchpad to work the coding has to be in game, for a wheel to work the coding has to be in game.  Therefore it will bypass the bluetooth if a Sony approved wheel is plugged in.  So therefore yes, developers do have control over what accessories will work. As i was saying it would make sense as a workaround and the dev's would be doing all Sony's watchdog work for them.   It is pretty genius in it's simplicity if that is indeed the case.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 02:56 AM - 11/27/13
Im telling you guys ,  wired usb support is in the hands of the game devs. They will decide support for specific 3rd party controllers. Ifyou want a generic catch all solution BT passthrough is going to be the only option.  The best case scenario would be a popular company creates a   wired controller that gets a close to universal support as possible , allowing usb passthrough . I wouldn't  hold my breathe.

Don't think this is right either according to the FAQ. It is true for PS3 devices but not for all devices.

Quote
What PS3 devices can I use with PS4?
Refer to the chart below:

PS3 peripherals and commercially available products compatible with PS4
Peripherals  Connection  Compatibility  Note   
Controllers (other than PS Move)  Bluetooth  NO   
 USB  NO  Not compatible, however publishers may decide to enable them on a title-by-title basis. 

PS3 USB controllers may be enabled on a title to title basis by the devs.

But it doesn't say the same thing under the general PS4 controller section. Says this instead:

Quote
Peripherals  Connection  Compatible  Note 
Controllers  Bluetooth / USB  YES  Only Sony Computer Entertainment products and officially licensed products will be compatible with PS4. 

Nothing at all about the devs needing to enable a controller on a game by game basis. It just says if you're officially licensed, you're compatible.

I did some googling to find a 'generically compatible' USB product and came up with this.

http://www.thrustmaster.com/press/thrustmaster-unveils-first-official-wheel-playstation-4-t80-driveclub-edition

All Thrustmaster wheels that I can find are USB only and have no Bluetooth functionality. Which makes sense as they're great big clunky products. I can't find 100% confirmation but I'm pretty sure this one is USB only too. And look at the way they've described it - it sounds very much like a 'generically compatible' USB wheel rather than one which has been enabled on a game by game basis. With the way they've described that, if I plugged it into a game and it didn't work I'd be pretty pissed. I expect that if you plug that thing's USB into the PS4 and it starts talking, the PS4 will listen.

(Could be wrong though - I'd recommend triple checking that it has no BT functionality before anyone buys it!)

Contrast this other Thrustmaster wheel: http://www.thrustmaster.com/products/t500rs

I read some of the racing game forums and apparently it's been confirmed that this wheel will work on the new PS4 racing game 'Driveclub.' However, it is not advertised by Thrustmaster as 'PS4 compatible' in the same way that the T80 wheel is because it is a PS3 wheel which has been enabled on a game by game basis (as per the first section of the FAQ I pasted out above).
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: kolo73 on 03:18 AM - 11/27/13
HOW IS THE SITUATION ON Xbox1? WORK PROGRAM ARE CONTINUING OR ALL FORCES ARE CONCENTRATED ON PS4?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 03:23 AM - 11/27/13
XOne has priority

Quote
may decide to enable them on a title-by-title basis

That sounds bad. A peripheral that is just activated on some games is useless.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 03:27 AM - 11/27/13
XOne has priority

Quote
may decide to enable them on a title-by-title basis

That sounds bad. A peripheral that is just activated on some games is useless.

Oh cmon roads, read the rest of my post. :)

It only says that for PS3 stuff. Says nothing at all about 'title-by-title' for new PS4 third party peripherals.

I am going to look like a complete idiot if this turns out to be wrong, having pasted the FAQs about 4 times. I bet someone buys the T80 and it only works for racing games or some sh!t. :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 03:35 AM - 11/27/13
Sorry overread that, dont post PS3 stuff.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 03:38 AM - 11/27/13
Lol @ thrustmaster steering wheel. I'm a wheel user and trust me thrustmaster make the worst and cheapest wheels out there. Do a google search. They are sooooo cheaply made they fall apart in minutes
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 03:46 AM - 11/27/13
roads PS3_UK don't pay attention to the trolls, Sony did not hand USB device approval to game devs as fade2black fear mongers. i'm as sure as that as of my name.

there will ALWAYS be titles that enable unique devices, THAT ALWAYS HAPPENED period. not the case for generic devices that are expected to work:

a) all games. 3rd party controller replacement or alternative device.
b) specific devices that will work on a genre. wheels, arcade sticks, etc..
c) limited but generic support that works when applicable but may need game support for fully working. flightsticks, etc..


and it's pretty likely this will hold for the first times but give it time and the chinese will make everything and anything working on PS4 without official licenses. ahahah
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 03:57 AM - 11/27/13
roads PS3_UK don't pay attention to the trolls, Sony did not hand USB device approval to game devs as fade2black fear mongers. i'm as sure as that as of my name.

there will ALWAYS be titles that enable unique devices, THAT ALWAYS HAPPENED period. not the case for generic devices that are expected to work:

a) all games. 3rd party controller replacement or alternative device.
b) specific devices that will work on a genre. wheels, arcade sticks, etc..
c) limited but generic support that works when applicable but may need game support for fully working. flightsticks, etc..


and it's pretty likely this will hold for the first times but give it time and the chinese will make everything and anything working on PS4 without official licenses. ahahah
Seriously everyone here needs to listen to this guy. He knows his shiz
T80 steering wheel has embedded FIRMWARE that allows it to work through USB.
http://www.teamvvv.com/en/news/comments/First-official-PS4-racing-wheel-announced-the-Thrustmaster-T80-DriveClub-Edition
I know team VVV through forza Motorsport. These guys go to tournaments. There info is legit
Looks like its a software issue
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Wurstwasser on 04:29 AM - 11/27/13
Obsiv, what hurdles besides latency is there to get Bluetooth passthrough working?  Is there any decryption needed?  Or is it simple UID Spoofing?
I have the same question. I'm not that worried about latency, i'm more worried if it is possible at all to passthrough a bluetooth connection that could be encrypted.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: anony on 05:06 AM - 11/27/13
Maybe obs needs to get that steering wheel and figure out a way to hack it and use its USB code to xim's advantage
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: TheCityWok on 05:56 AM - 11/27/13
What are the chances the BT way works?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 06:06 AM - 11/27/13
unknown
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: lh82p on 06:41 AM - 11/27/13
i trust Obsiv, that he find a solution. Otherwise i keep in mind to go back on PC to play fps games. But i dont think so. In some weeks, the situation will change....
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: pepsicosmos on 06:52 AM - 11/27/13
Please translate by your Self
This is the Message from the technical support from thrustmaster.

bezŁglich T80 Driveclub Edition.
Danke dass Sie uns hinsichtlich Ihres Anliegens kontaktiert haben.

Das Lenkrad wird Łber ein USB Kabel an die PS4 angeschlossen.

Bitte zŲgern Sie nicht uns auch hinsichtlich anderen Angelegenheiten anzuschreiben.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 06:55 AM - 11/27/13
Thank you for contacting us regarding your inquiry. The steering wheel is connected via a USB cable to the PS4. Please do not hesitate to contact us also with regard to other matters
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: JerginsSoft on 07:03 AM - 11/27/13
Bluetooth passthrough, official licensing... either way, as long as you need an officially licensed sony product to use the peripheral, I doubt sony will mess with you. If it cut into controller profits, you can bet they'd shut it down.

I'll go ahead and get my ps4, and await an outcome. As obsiv said, something will happen, and they are very good at what they do.

You can be excited, but don't start waiting for the mothership while cradling your kool-aid yet... something will get figured out!

Edit: sweet... 1500! :D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zacharybinx34 on 07:39 AM - 11/27/13
The second you need anyone to test/buy a XIM4 unit you know where to find me =)


COD GHOSTS (XBONE VERSION) is a nice paperwhite until that happens. Can't stand controllers... =/
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Fade2Blak on 08:38 AM - 11/27/13
Does PS4 support the PlayStation Move motion controller?
Yes. Developers will be able to create PS4 titles that use the PS Move controller, with Octodad: Dadliest Catch and Sportsfriends being two upcoming examples. However, PS3 titles that use the PS Move controller will not be supported on PS4.
 Dont think Sony is going to have everyone flash new firmware to all the Moves out there.   Therefore you have to understand that the GAME itself will contain the protocol to make the PS4 allow the Move to connect to the PS4.  The line "Developers will be able to create titles that use the PS Move controller" should clarify that.   The touchpad works via firmware right out of the box as well but try as I might I cant get it to work on COD. I have both units and want the XIM4 to work on both but the solution to the PS4 needs to be a permanent one or we will be back to square one.  That is why EVERY piece of information should be shared and discussed.  Until the correct answer is given by Sony then nothing should be assumed.  Sadly it seems to be the same couple of people that attack anyone that has viable info that doesnt fit their opinions.  Luckily the majority of the community is awesome and open minded.  I have had no less than 8 PMs saying to ignore the couple of pot stirrers as that is what the majority of other users have done.  We should all be working towards a feasible solution and not trying to discredit what others write.  After all that is what seperates (most of us) from the animals.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: willthetech on 08:40 AM - 11/27/13
I am confused about this blue tooth pass-through thing for PS4 if OBSiV decides to use itÖso is it something that can only be done with XIM4? Or can the edge also do this by us providing the Bluetooth adapter or any other extra hardware? Because I am thinking if it only can be done with XIM4, then the wait will be even longerÖwe have to wait for the product to be finalized, then beta tests (sure small group of users) , the manufacture of the product, the shipping, etcÖ, will this be another summer launch? Not rantingÖ just wondering  8)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 08:53 AM - 11/27/13
^ from what I've read the Edge doesn't have the power as the XIM4 has a built in 32 bit ARM processor.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 08:59 AM - 11/27/13
Does PS4 support the PlayStation Move motion controller?
Yes. Developers will be able to create PS4 titles that use the PS Move controller, with Octodad: Dadliest Catch and Sportsfriends being two upcoming examples. However, PS3 titles that use the PS Move controller will not be supported on PS4.
 Dont think Sony is going to have everyone flash new firmware to all the Moves out there.   Therefore you have to understand that the GAME itself will contain the protocol to make the PS4 allow the Move to connect to the PS4.  The line "Developers will be able to create titles that use the PS Move controller" should clarify that.   The touchpad works via firmware right out of the box as well but try as I might I cant get it to work on COD. I have both units and want the XIM4 to work on both but the solution to the PS4 needs to be a permanent one or we will be back to square one.  That is why EVERY piece of information should be shared and discussed.  Until the correct answer is given by Sony then nothing should be assumed.  Sadly it seems to be the same couple of people that attack anyone that has viable info that doesnt fit their opinions.  Luckily the majority of the community is awesome and open minded.  I have had no less than 8 PMs saying to ignore the couple of pot stirrers as that is what the majority of other users have done.  We should all be working towards a feasible solution and not trying to discredit what others write.  After all that is what seperates (most of us) from the animals.
^this is info we already know. It was established on the day ps4 came out. THIRD PARTY CONTROLLERS WILL CONTAIN EMBEDDED FIRMWARE THAT MAKES THE PS4 RECOGNISE THE DEVICE.  It's not some special on/off switch that devs put in there games, that is for old ps3 peripherals don't believe me check this
http://www.teamvvv.com/en/news/comments/First-official-PS4-racing-wheel-announced-the-Thrustmaster-T80-DriveClub-Edition
Fad2black it doesn't matter how many times you say the same thing it does not make it right
The new security chip will contain the firmware
Trlolllolololololol
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joey McCamper on 09:11 AM - 11/27/13
I really thought the PS4 would be the easiest to develop for when it came to the XIM.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 10:15 AM - 11/27/13
I really thought the PS4 would be the easiest to develop for when it came to the XIM.

So did we.

Concerns about Edge and Beta in posts above -- XIM4 is based on the Edge platform with upgrades. But, the XIM4 beta firmware will still have all the major functionality (even if we do Bluetooth pass though).
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Fade2Blak on 10:30 AM - 11/27/13
And right on cue one of the two show up...lol...tip of the hat to the people that called it.    ::)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 10:36 AM - 11/27/13
"THIRD PARTY CONTROLLERS WILL CONTAIN EMBEDDED FIRMWARE THAT MAKES THE PS4 RECOGNISE THE DEVICE"

How do you know an authentication chip isn't used (like Xbox)?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 10:39 AM - 11/27/13
@OBsIV Don't mean to sound rude but if you read all the way through the post you will notice I said  " the new security chip will contain the firmware "
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 10:40 AM - 11/27/13
Also read this page. Team VVV are massive in the driving game scene
http://www.teamvvv.com/en/news/comments/First-official-PS4-racing-wheel-announced-the-Thrustmaster-T80-DriveClub-Edition
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Fade2Blak on 10:49 AM - 11/27/13
Think of this scenario....The chip is embedded, letting the PS4 know that it is an officially licensed product.  The game code lets the PS4 know that it is fine to use "x" accessory.  It could be a closed loop system that prevents hacking/flashing.  Any racing game could contain one line of code that tells the PS4 to recognize any 3rd party wheel with an authentication chip.  It is simplistic in nature and wouldnt require Sony to actively police the network.  Never once have I said this is the way it will be implemented but with the wording you read and if you read between the lines, they spend way too much time saying developers will be able to make use of these in games.  I for one hope my info is totally off base but in reality it makes perfect sense from a security standpoint.  It makes you wonder why Sony went to this protocol in the first place if they werent overly concerned about security , as it has been there downfall in the past.  i posted this as an avenue to think about"just in case". Just seems to me they are trying to make it where the games and accessories talk to each other with the PS4 acting as the gatekeeper.   As I said they didnt just change their authentication process for kicks, there has to be a serious security aspect in it.   Think of it this way, your car has firmware flashed into the ECU.  Your key has a chip embedded in it.   When they are paired the ECU accepts the chips authentication code and the car starts. Its a simple security measure easily implemented. 
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 10:53 AM - 11/27/13
But that would completely destroy there relationship with third party hardware devs. Game devs aren't gonna write in loads of extra lines of code to authorise use of third party controllers specifically designed for ps4...that would be mental.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Fade2Blak on 11:12 AM - 11/27/13
What are you missing here?  A line of code is copy/paste material.  It opens the USB protocol on the PS4.  The third party controllers will NOT be affected as their authentication chips will be there and accepted.  Sony will never have a firmware code that stands alone.  It can be too easily reverse engineered and exploited.  That is how the PS3 was exploited, with an open USB protocol.  As i said before it is simplistic in its execution.Realize they didnt just make this change suddenly, there is a hard reason they decided to upset their fanbase.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 11:15 AM - 11/27/13
there is a hard reason they decided to upset their fanbase.

I don't think there will really be that much push back from the consumer to be honest. There's a very small percentage that actually care about this. Us and MLG.

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 11:16 AM - 11/27/13
Now I'm with you. That would not be good. All this is only speculation. We will just have to wait and see when we get hold of a third party controller. It has however been established that Sony are selling the security chips
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Fade2Blak on 11:19 AM - 11/27/13
I agree RML....out of the million sold so far I am sure the 50,000 that are upset by this is not even a blip on their radar.  It's a pain but i think they are more worried about the negativity of the last PSN breach than they are on fitting the needs of the entire consumer market.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 11:20 AM - 11/27/13
Yep, just like my truck.

The @#$% thing won't start unless the chip inside my key is read.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 11:23 AM - 11/27/13
I agree RML....out of the million sold so far I am sure the 50,000 that are upset by this is not even a blip on their radar.  It's a pain but i think they are more worried about the negativity of the last PSN breach than they are on fitting the needs of the entire consumer market.

Yes and their answer to the public will be "Your PS4 is more secure and you will have less Hackers this way" Now tell me this won't be well accepted news by the core fan base?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: wunderdunce on 12:47 PM - 11/27/13
Soooo OBsIV can we get a confirmation on type of Bluetooth adapter needed? Thanks  ;D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: aeo on 02:33 PM - 11/27/13
For those of you wondering if the BT route is possible. From what i have found looking around its been done before on ps3 where a pc was used to emulate a six axis controller over bluetooth to the ps3. I'm sure obsiv has seen this as the source is also public. Feel free to read and we can hope that this calms the nerves of some of the more restless XIM users.

http://gimx.fr/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 02:37 PM - 11/27/13
I don't think it was really the issue of being possible or not, but more what would the responce time be. (input delay). And would it be worth while for the dev team to pursue.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 02:39 PM - 11/27/13
Hi Fade2Blak

Quote
Sadly it seems to be the same couple of people that attack anyone that has viable info that doesnt fit their opinions.

I hope this doesnít mean me Ė Iíve been up front that I have zero understanding of the tech and Iím not trying to shout anyone down.

As to whether I agree with what your posts say Ė I donít completely understand them. What is your point in relation to the XIM4 and the feasibility of getting it working on PS4?

Quote
The chip is embedded, letting the PS4 know that it is an officially licensed product.  The game code lets the PS4 know that it is fine to use "x" accessory.  It could be a closed loop system that prevents hacking/flashing.  Any racing game could contain one line of code that tells the PS4 to recognize any 3rd party wheel with an authentication chip.

Maybe thatís how the mechanics work. I donít know. But the end result of whatever the mechanics are is that the Thrustmaster T80 will work on all racing games and the devs will have no choice in the matter. It is clearly being sold by Thrustmaster as a ĎPS4 compatibleí device, not a device which only works when game developers choose to let it work. If I bought one of those devices and it failed to work on any racing game, Thrustmaster would be liable for misrepresentation (under UK law at least Ė I expect the position will be the same in other countries). In other words they have induced me to buy the product by making a false claim. They wonít be taking that risk. Their licensing contract with Sony will (as a bare minimum) include an obligation on Sony that the product will work on all racing games. Accordingly Sony will not let the game devs have any choice in the matter, or they could be liable to Thrustmaster for breach of contract. I donít know technically how this will be achieved but that will be the end result Ė the devs have no choice in the matter.

I donít know what would happen if you tried to use it in an FPS game. I donít understand the tech and the misrepresentation point above wouldnít apply. I did originally think that a racing wheel would provide the same types of outputs as a gamepad (just that you press/ turn different things to produce them) and so it might be a workable XIM solution but this was swiftly pointed out to be BS. Iíve never even used a racing wheel. :)
 
Donít have any understanding/ knowledge at all of how people used to be able to hack a PS3 through USB so I canít say anything about this.

All the above is consistent with what the FAQ says in relation to new PS4 third party controllers Ė it doesnít use the same Ďdevice will only work if devs say soí wording that it uses for PS3 devices.

If someone produces a new third party wired gamepad controller with PS4 licensing then it will work on all PS4 FPS games. No idea about how this will be achieved through the hardware/ software but this will be the end result.

Quote
Developers will be able to create PS4 titles that use the PS Move controllerÖDont think Sony is going to have everyone flash new firmware to all the Moves out there.   Therefore you have to understand that the GAME itself will contain the protocol to make the PS4 allow the Move to connect to the PS4.  The line "Developers will be able to create titles that use the PS Move controller" should clarify that.

I completely agree. But thatís what the FAQ says about the PS Move. It says something different about new third party USB controllers for the PS4.

One point Iíd add here is that the T80 definitely does have official embedded firmware, the evidence being that Thrustmaster themselves repeatedly state that it does. E.g.
http://www.thrustmaster.com/press/thrustmaster-unveils-first-official-wheel-playstation-4-t80-driveclub-edition
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 02:47 PM - 11/27/13
He is referring to me for some reason. Anyone with a difference of opinion is seen as a troll these days . I made the same point but in not so many words about the ps4. But hey what do I know.
Lol. If you only knew what I do . The second a third party controller is available I will be trying to extract the firmware. Not hack...extract
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Fade2Blak on 03:03 PM - 11/27/13
No PS3, I am not referring to you.   The point I am trying to make, which seems to be more complex to understand than even I imagined, is that games will come with a line of code that performs a check against a third party controller to ensure it is Sony licensed. It then becomes a closed loop session.  Thereby locking out any flash drives that are inserted into the console.  As I said before it is all speculation.  Some people seem to get the theory, others dont.  I want the Xim to work for my PS4 as badly as anyone.  That said every scenario should be accounted for.   Think what you will but Sony didnt change protocol's on a whim.  A lot smarter people have worked a lot longer then we to insure that the exploits that happened on the PS3 will not happen again.  ObSiv posted asking for help and subjective thoughts about a work around.  I just replied as on how I interpreted it and how things COULD work.  Apparently a few thought it was ludicrous.  I always wondered why someone would try and downplay any reply from anyone as we all know the same amount of info....NONE!    That being said I will retract from this discussion as it apparently has derailed from a subjective group search for answers into an insidious attack on other peoples opinions.  Glad to be a part of this community and the 99% who make finding info and helping out a pleasurable experience.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 03:06 PM - 11/27/13
Me too. Now back to the REAL problem.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 03:06 PM - 11/27/13
No PS3, I am not referring to you.   The point I am trying to make, which seems to be more complex to understand than even I imagined, is that games will come with a line of code that performs a check against a third party controller to ensure it is Sony licensed. It then becomes a closed loop session.  Thereby locking out any flash drives that are inserted into the console.  As I said before it is all speculation.  Some people seem to get the theory, others dont.  I want the Xim to work for my PS4 as badly as anyone.  That said every scenario should be accounted for.   Think what you will but Sony didnt change protocol's on a whim.  A lot smarter people have worked a lot longer then we to insure that the exploits that happened on the PS3 will not happen again.  ObSiv posted asking for help and subjective thoughts about a work around.  I just replied as on how I interpreted it and how things COULD work.  Apparently a few thought it was ludicrous.  I always wondered why someone would try and downplay any reply from anyone as we all know the same amount of info....NONE!    That being said I will retract from this discussion as it apparently has derailed from a subjective group search for answers into an insidious attack on other peoples opinions.  Glad to be a part of this community and the 99% who make finding info and helping out a pleasurable experience.

Can't see anything in here which I disagree with (although I can see a few things which I don't understand...)

All I've been saying is that based on the FAQ it will be possible to buy a licensed USB device that is guaranteed to work on PS4. Which could be used to make the XIM4 work. That's all. :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 03:18 PM - 11/27/13
Quote
The point I am trying to make, which seems to be more complex to understand than even I imagined, is that games will come with a line of code that performs a check against a third party controller to ensure it is Sony licensed. It then becomes a closed loop session.  Thereby locking out any flash drives that are inserted into the console.  As I said before it is all speculation.  Some people seem to get the theory, others dont. I want the Xim to work for my PS4 as badly as anyone.  That said every scenario should be accounted for.

Honest question - are you saying that any of the above would stop the XIM4 from working with a USB controller, using the same 'passthrough' method that the Edge uses for the PS3? Wouldn't the XIM4 be invisible to the PS4, so it would be included in the 'closed loop session' together with the PS4 and the licensed controller?

Not a smart alec question in any way - I'm just trying to understand what you mean...
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joey McCamper on 03:20 PM - 11/27/13
Why doesn't ObsIV hire the guys helping with the Affordable Care Act website revamp ?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Fade2Blak on 03:29 PM - 11/27/13
No, that is not what i am  saying.  The problem seems to be how to get the PS4 to open its USB port to accept data input.  We all know about the Sony chips being sold and we can be relatively sure the controller has the same chip in it now.    The issue at hand is how does the PS4 know to allow for data packets to send over the USB protocol.   My theory was that the controllers and the game itself will check against each other.  That way Sony wouldnt have to send an all inclusive patch that would make USB stay open at all times which would lead to the exploit/hack issues of the PS3.  Third party controllers wouldnt be affected by any of this as Sony licensed games would include the same code over and over to open the USB protocol to accept wired inputs.  I just feel that Sony will never again just leave the USB open to exploits.   I myself have a PS4 and I wouldnt want to see that.  So yes, XIM will eventually work on PS4 like it did on the PS3.  The issue is to find out the authentication process so that ObSiv can test and implement at this stage.   That is what he is after at this stage, R&D.   No one seems to be able to break that protocol yet and I think it could be because no game has been made yet to open the USB to accept data.  It could also come in the form of a flash to the console but there would still be a check put in place to authenticate.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Fade2Blak on 03:50 PM - 11/27/13
. The second a third party controller is available I will be trying to extract the firmware. Not hack...extract
       Which is why I am certain Sony will put a double authenticate method in place.  Exactly for people who want to "extract".   Thanks for proving the point that this reasoning is why all of us PS4 owners are at this juncture and hoping that the Xim will work for us.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 03:57 PM - 11/27/13
yes i think so too, i doubt sony will give us that usb firmware update we all want to see, cause then they open the backdoor for all those hacks and stuff

at the beginning of this topic i was absolutly sure that we get this update, but then the cronus dev told me about the way hacks and custom firmwares are loaded to the PS3 and then i started to understand for why sony really went that way

it makes perfect sense and is a pretty smart approach to the problem actually

and im sure obsiv went through the very same transition than i did, its now clearer than before that BT currently is the best alternative we have right now
with licenced chip or third party controller with licenced chip being a distand second place
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mindworm22 on 04:18 PM - 11/27/13
Cheapest 3rd party controller wins?  I don't see OBsIV doing that.  I could be wrong, but I think he'd view it as something that "diminished" his product. 

BT or pay the license fee / have a PS only version of the XIM. 

XIM has changed in the past and, in this circumstance, may have to change again...
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sgt8Bit on 04:19 PM - 11/27/13
Soooo OBsIV can we get a confirmation on type of Bluetooth adapter needed? Thanks  ;D

+1
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 05:11 PM - 11/27/13
Soooo OBsIV can we get a confirmation on type of Bluetooth adapter needed? Thanks  ;D

It's not a matter of the brand, but, rather the chipset inside. There are 3 main players as far as chipsets, we use CSR. But, I'd like to provide recommendations based on testing various brands to make sure testing is done on equivalent hardware.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 05:12 PM - 11/27/13
cronus dev claims they solved the BT, how can we fall back on them!!!
http://www.xim3.com/community/index.php?topic=29561.msg365459#msg365459

(obsiv needs to feel my breath in is neck in order to attain his maximum productivity haha! :P)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 05:24 PM - 11/27/13
cronus dev claims they solved the BT, how can we fall back on them!!!
http://www.xim3.com/community/index.php?topic=29561.msg365459#msg365459

(obsiv needs to feel my breath in is neck in order to attain his maximum productivity haha! :P)

Of course they did -- again, it's just work. Let's let them finish what they are doing and we will check their implementation.

Meanwhile, Orbital reports XIM4 is running on Xbox One (including audio passthrough). He will be connecting it all up to the front-end (including wireless config) in a couple days. I'll let everyone know when that happens.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 05:27 PM - 11/27/13
say congrats to orbital for me, excellent work

it really is the XIM OrbsIV haha
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Fade2Blak on 05:29 PM - 11/27/13
Congrats on the One working prototype.  Great news.   Great job XIM team!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: lh82p on 05:37 PM - 11/27/13
sounds good, and now the same news for the ps4, and we are all happy ;)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 05:42 PM - 11/27/13
i'll be getting Xbox One soon but i hope XIM4 works on PS4 too. good job btw XIM team.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zacharybinx34 on 06:05 PM - 11/27/13
That's awesome, great work!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 06:07 PM - 11/27/13
Xbone done. Nice one OBsIV
Off to sell my xbox360 with M$ steering wheel + wheel stand pro + XIM edge + 234 games all legit.
Hope I get a good price lol.


Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: wunderdunce on 06:21 PM - 11/27/13
Yeaaaa this is fantastic news!!! Nice job OBsIV and Orbital!!!! ;D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Rambos_BFF on 07:00 PM - 11/27/13
Awesome news! Just what I was hoping to hear. Yay.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: CUBIC1 on 07:16 PM - 11/27/13
Great news for the xbox one
 
cant wait to get it work with PS4  as well
Thanks for all the hard work XIM  Team
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 07:23 PM - 11/27/13
Bravo guys!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sgt8Bit on 07:32 PM - 11/27/13
Fantastic news!  Congrats team!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: NyCShadow on 09:19 PM - 11/27/13
great news thanks for the update OBsIV and Orbital
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: BiopticBiscuit on 09:56 PM - 11/27/13
Good job guys!! I hope this ps4 issue is solved sooner rather than later!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 10:58 PM - 11/27/13
cronus dev claims they solved the BT, how can we fall back on them!!!
http://www.xim3.com/community/index.php?topic=29561.msg365459#msg365459

(obsiv needs to feel my breath in is neck in order to attain his maximum productivity haha! :P)

Of course they did -- again, it's just work. Let's let them finish what they are doing and we will check their implementation.

Meanwhile, Orbital reports XIM4 is running on Xbox One (including audio passthrough). He will be connecting it all up to the front-end (including wireless config) in a couple days. I'll let everyone know when that happens.

Obs, can you please check at Amazon.de that the BT dongle is available when you choose one so its sure its available in Europe. The beta group is already cut by having an Edge and now no PS4 initially so you will need every Bone working with the beta.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 11:00 PM - 11/27/13
Oh and great news on the ONE I think we have to be happy at least one console is working already!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: attila4go on 11:03 PM - 11/27/13
Quote
Obs, can you please check at Amazon.de that the BT dongle is available when you choose one so its sure its available in Europe. The beta group is already cut by having an Edge and now no PS4 initially so you will need every Bone working with the beta.

+1
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 11:13 PM - 11/27/13
Mist warm up the ST-generator, work is on the way!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 01:12 AM - 11/28/13
Need more time on the BT adapter recommendation. Its a popular chipset, so, I don't anticipate difficulty finding it locally.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:37 AM - 11/28/13
OK then
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 01:43 AM - 11/28/13
OK then

you really had to write so many words? could you just nod or something?  ;D

OB being coy and letting us figure out if the Asus dongle for Nav-Edge will be compatible or not.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 01:44 AM - 11/28/13
Asus is not compatible.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 01:56 AM - 11/28/13
Asus is not compatible.

oh dear. let's try to get this out there as much as possible shall we?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:59 AM - 11/28/13
OK then

you really had to write so many words? could you just nod or something?  ;D

OB being coy and letting us figure out if the Asus dongle for Nav-Edge will be compatible or not.

No joking about writing AK, you are almost non existant on the forum by walling your texts. You fade.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 02:15 AM - 11/28/13
to compensate that there's a lot of stuff that if i were like other's i'd comment (with just few lines/words) and i don't. we have an expression for this: "it's either 8 or 80" meaning either too little or too much. can't get balance right, maybe i need an xbone after all! *dun dun dun*
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:25 AM - 11/28/13
Of course you do, there is no "P" in XIM.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 02:34 AM - 11/28/13
Of course you do, there is no "P" in XIM.

now you are just baiting/testing me outright LOL
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:55 AM - 11/28/13
:D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: bigmasta on 03:41 AM - 11/28/13
Congrats to the hole XIM Team for this "milestone", looking forward for the Edge Beta to kick some A... on X1 and Ghost/BF4 ;)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: s1yr on 04:00 AM - 11/28/13
Good job, XIM crew! :D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: willthetech on 05:40 AM - 11/28/13
great Job guys...Now if i could just find a store that has XBones available... :'(
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mindworm22 on 06:00 AM - 11/28/13
Of course you do, there is no "P" in XIM.

Unless you're Holiday Shrimp.   

=)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 06:04 AM - 11/28/13
Yeah Obsiv should make one unique yellow XIM4.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: sputnik on 07:27 AM - 11/28/13
Yeh good job fellas! Impressive think tank you've got going here.

I feel strangely guilty as I have an X1 but have no doubt you will crack the PS4 issue soon!!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Neildo on 07:33 AM - 11/28/13
I'll get my ps4 tomorrow and I am sad to know that xim does not work.

But I still hope it works soon.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: nobodyfamous on 08:32 AM - 11/28/13
I'll get my ps4 tomorrow and I am sad to know that xim does not work.

But I still hope it works soon.

Im in the same boat, think might open yhr xb1 today
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 09:18 AM - 11/28/13
I'll get my ps4 tomorrow and I am sad to know that xim does not work.

But I still hope it works soon.


Im in the same boat, think might open yhr xb1 today

Relax people, it'll eventually be worked out for the PS4 soon enough. Remember OBsIV has more obstacles to overcome with the PS4 than with the XBO.

All in due time.




But I won't lie, I want it now too lol!   ;D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Wurstwasser on 11:14 AM - 11/28/13
So the Asus BT211 doesn't work. I think it is a Atheros (AR3011) Bluetooth chipset. Does anyone know what chipset the Dualshock 4 uses or is it Sony's own chipset?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: wunderdunce on 11:16 AM - 11/28/13
I am so happy I took the advice and did not order the Asus BT adapter now.  8)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 11:32 AM - 11/28/13
:D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: kolo73 on 11:34 AM - 11/28/13
So the Asus BT211 doesn't work. I think it is a Atheros (AR3011) Bluetooth chipset. Does anyone know what chipset the Dualshock 4 uses or is it Sony's own chipset?

The PS4's DualShock 4 controller costs around $18 to build, the report concluded. It includes Bluetooth chips from Qualcomm, an audio chip from Wolfson Microelectronics, and a motion sensor chip from Bosch
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joey McCamper on 11:34 AM - 11/28/13
I HAVE THE ASUS BT ADAPTER MAKE IT WORK - roads  :P
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Wurstwasser on 11:38 AM - 11/28/13
The PS4's DualShock 4 controller costs around $18 to build, the report concluded. It includes Bluetooth chips from Qualcomm, an audio chip from Wolfson Microelectronics, and a motion sensor chip from Bosch

Hm, Qualcomm = Atheros. Weird that it doesn't work.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: kolo73 on 11:39 AM - 11/28/13
could be a custom chip?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zombieguy on 11:56 AM - 11/28/13
if anybody wants to play Battlefield 4 on the ps4 you are not missing much the game is broken. many of my clan members have come back to play on the ps3 to play Battlefield 3 instead. by the time battlefield 4 is fixed X I am four hopefully should be ready.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: kolo73 on 12:05 PM - 11/28/13
if anybody wants to play Battlefield 4 on the ps4 you are not missing much the game is broken. many of my clan members have come back to play on the ps3 to play Battlefield 3 instead. by the time battlefield 4 is fixed X I am four hopefully should be ready.

offtopic:
Battlefield 4 on Xone is the same
Title: Re: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 12:13 PM - 11/28/13
if anybody wants to play Battlefield 4 on the ps4 you are not missing much the game is broken. many of my clan members have come back to play on the ps3 to play Battlefield 3 instead. by the time battlefield 4 is fixed X I am four hopefully should be ready.

I don't discount what you're saying but that's subjective and your experience.

It plays fine for me and I play it daily.
My friends list is about 108 deep, and a few of those guys (at least about 35 or so) I play with have been Ok.

About the only problems we've encountered has been during Conquest.

There were more problems early on but since the last patch it's been playing pretty good for us.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 12:14 PM - 11/28/13
I HAVE THE ASUS BT ADAPTER MAKE IT WORK - roads  :P

Don't give him the idea.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 12:16 PM - 11/28/13
obsiv should choose the strongest BT adapter he can get, using a weaker adapter aint a good idea
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zacharybinx34 on 12:44 PM - 11/28/13
obsiv should choose the strongest BT adapter he can get, using a weaker adapter aint a good idea

Your MOTHER is a weak adapter



BOOM!

Nailed it.  /flex - what now Od1n? WHAT NOW?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: wunderdunce on 01:15 PM - 11/28/13
I have a question will the XIM 4 support the Logitech G13 without having to assign buttons in game?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: BiopticBiscuit on 01:19 PM - 11/28/13
obsiv should choose the strongest BT adapter he can get, using a weaker adapter aint a good idea

Your MOTHER is a weak adapter



BOOM!

Nailed it.  /flex - what now Od1n? WHAT NOW?

I'm not sure why I laughed so hard at this. God help me.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 01:37 PM - 11/28/13
I have a question will the XIM 4 support the Logitech G13 without having to assign buttons in game?

Yes and no. You will only assign buttons in game, but, you won't have the inconvenience of not having a screen.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 01:54 PM - 11/28/13
I have a question will the XIM 4 support the Logitech G13 without having to assign buttons in game?

Yes and no. You will only assign buttons in game, but, you won't have the inconvenience of not having a screen.

tears roll down my eyes because i was able to live to see this day. seeing that live in motion would have been something else but just the fact i see you say it is enough to die happy.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 01:57 PM - 11/28/13
@ roads and @other modders

people who have the PS4 i think we should unite and face the fact we'll have to mod our DS4s so we can jam a bigger battery in there to see if the thing lasts an extra 5 minutes. ideally would be to drill a micro hole on it and arrange some wires that would enable us to connect 2 batteries, one on the outside in a position that would be out of the way for our hands.

desperate times..
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: willthetech on 03:42 PM - 11/28/13
I have a question will the XIM 4 support the Logitech G13 without having to assign buttons in game?

Yes and no. You will only assign buttons in game, but, you won't have the inconvenience of not having a screen.

Wait...does this means what i think it means...LCD screen is back?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mindworm22 on 03:44 PM - 11/28/13
No LCD.  Just magic. 
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 03:51 PM - 11/28/13
Wait...does this means what i think it means...LCD screen is back?
no. phone app will be the new screen. come on it's all over the forum that particular info ^^
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 05:02 PM - 11/28/13
T80 now available to buy at at least one store: http://www.amazon.co.uk/GUILLEMOT-4160597-THRUSTMASTER-T80-Driveclub/dp/B00F9F047K

Someone helpfully emailed the Thrustmaster website and they confirmed that this was USB. So it must be doing something different from the DS4 controller although query exactly what.

Hopefully will become available in other places from tomorrow as tomorrow is the UK PS4 launch date.

DISCLAIMER: Since I've pasted details of this wheel at least seven times it is GUARANTEED that it will fail to work. Some [email protected] like the PS4 will be clever enough only to open the USB protocol for driving games and nothing else (and there are no driving games out yet).
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 05:09 PM - 11/28/13
Mist will you finish up those @#$% Xbone STs already so we can get this beta rollin.

 :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 05:19 PM - 11/28/13
T80 now available to buy at at least one store: http://www.amazon.co.uk/GUILLEMOT-4160597-THRUSTMASTER-T80-Driveclub/dp/B00F9F047K

Someone helpfully emailed the Thrustmaster website and they confirmed that this was USB. So it must be doing something different from the DS4 controller although query exactly what.

Hopefully will become available in other places from tomorrow as tomorrow is the UK PS4 launch date.

DISCLAIMER: Since I've pasted details of this wheel at least seven times it is GUARANTEED that it will fail to work. Some [email protected] like the PS4 will be clever enough only to open the USB protocol for driving games and nothing else (and there are no driving games out yet).

well if wheels use different data than the analog sticks that's partly pretty much granted. but these things usually have dpads and the XO/\[] buttons which will work in everything via USB. so they are still interesting regardless of details i think

OBsIV you plan on checking it out once they have them there? seems pretty expensive just for test purposes. and being a trustmaster wheel it's bound to be a subpar wheel i think
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 06:43 PM - 11/28/13
OK I just went out and impulse bought a PS4 at midnight launch (UK). Would have gone Xbone for the XIM support but everyone I know is buying a PS4. Surprising how easy it was - they are trading at a huge premium on ebay. Most people didn't think just to google which stores were selling them at midnight.

Since I now have a vested interest in this I will be posting regular 'pep talks' for OBsIV on this thread. Can't play on controller, it will be an embarrassing joke. Might post a video of it for everyone to laugh at. ;)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 06:49 PM - 11/28/13
BTW, contrary to I read on the internet, there are driving games out for PS4 - they were selling Need for Speed Rivals on PS4 when I picked up my PS4. So, OBsIV, if you bought a copy of that game plus the T80 - I'm going to stick my neck out and say it is a safe bet that it will work ingame down the USB cable - if you have cash to burn for testing and want to do it rather than just focusing on Bluetooth. Sony must have guaranteed to Thrustmaster that it would work on all driving games (otherwise what the *** would Thrustmaster be getting from Sony for their license fee - the hope that game devs would be nice and enable their wheel? Sony wouldn't sell a single peripheral license if that were the case.) Plus TM have confirmed to someone who emailed them that it is USB. So I don't see where I could be going wrong here (famous last words).

Edit: Out of paranoia I've done some further checking and Thrustmaster have as good as confirmed that it will work with all PS4 racing games.

http://www.guillemot.com/dmdocuments/CAT3GUILLEMOT2013_24oct2013EN.pdf

Quote
The first official wheel for PS4, the T80 has been certified by Sony... It will allow gamers to fully experience all of the PS4's functionalities, while also being compatible with PlayStation 3 consoles (thanks to its PS4/PS3 switch), a platform on which many racing titles will be launched as this year's holiday season approaches - including F1 2013, WRC 4, Need for Speed Rivals and Gran Turismo 6.

Interestingly it has a PS3/PS4 switch as well as embedded PS4 firmware - maybe this offers some clues to the tech gurus about what's going on in the inside.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Wurstwasser on 06:52 PM - 11/28/13
So XBONE support is already finished and everyone is focused on PS4 support?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 07:01 PM - 11/28/13
you never saw me playing shooters with a controller otherwise you wouldn't be so embarrassed. since i'm that kind of guy, i always refused to play on analog sticks so not only am i natively bad i don't practice at all.

the only thing i do is try to get close to target, preferably from behind, aim for mid torso and wait for the clip to end while staffing to adjust the aim. i do manage to hit half a dozen bullets out of 30. with a HMG i can eventually spray enough bullets into the target to kill him given he doesn't move much or run away and he doesn't kill me.

i do play it smart if i'm forced to use a controller. i find a nice choke point that i can shoot to a place enemys will cross into my bullet streams and position myself so it's hard to miss altogether if they try to "breach"

also trying to get the AutoAim to snap is viable if you catch the hand of it in games like BF3 where the thing will basically aim for you and stick to the target no matter how he moves
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: nobodyfamous on 11:00 PM - 11/28/13
So XBONE support is already finished and everyone is focused on PS4 support?

I really hope so!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 11:04 PM - 11/28/13
I expect news and maybe release this weekend about the beta knowing their working speed.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 12:30 AM - 11/29/13
Where are they with the PS4?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:48 AM - 11/29/13
Nowhere is my educated guess, its put on hold waiting state for competitors doing the work for them for a change and new hardware.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Penitus Oculatus on 01:00 AM - 11/29/13
What's the ETA on the XIM4E release? I've readjusted to using a controller when I play Battlefield, but I'd still do better with a mouse.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:07 AM - 11/29/13
unknown but expected soon
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 01:28 AM - 11/29/13
Id suspect they were working hard on xbone right now to insure at least some of their community can start testing soon, though I highly doubt ps4 has been removed from thought.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:45 AM - 11/29/13
Yeah makes no sense to dig in PS4 as the right direction is unsure right now.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 07:35 AM - 11/29/13
I want to speculate as well but I'd rather wait to hear from OBsIV himself for an update.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Wurstwasser on 07:46 AM - 11/29/13
Hm any update on PS4 would be great. I'm really thinking of selling it on ebay.de (ridiculous pricing atm) and getting an XBONE. Without XIM support i don't know what to do with the PS4^^. I can't go back to controller :S
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 07:51 AM - 11/29/13
Do it you can buy it later again.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: giuseppe on 08:16 AM - 11/29/13
41 Page thread - To save others from my fate..

 11/29/2013 @ 0915 EST:
      BETA Status - Nothing Yet, Soon
      XIM4 Status - Nothing Yet, No ETA given

Does that sound about right?  I just want to be sure I didnt miss something on like page 32.  Playing with a controller is killing me..  literally (in game).

Thank you for all of your hard work devs  Take all of the time you need!  My XIM Edge is awesome and I know you won't let the XIM4 out the door until it is absolutely ready (maybe DICE/EA should take some notes from you?!  :D )
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Thera6179 on 08:25 AM - 11/29/13
Do it you can buy it later again.

^ This,  you will make money to buy a XIM4 for free if you do it right now. I just sold my XIM edge on Ebay for 122. Bought it during the Beta, sold it for more than I bought it for, speaks for the quality of the product if you can sell it at a profit even after production ceased. All ready for XIM4 cause I know it will definitely support the PS3  ;D. And I want to support an excellent product by an excellent team with brilliant communication skills to the end users.
   
   I have never ever seen communication so transparent, honest and involving the end users in decisions.  Kudos to the whole team. Brilliant company.

    ObSIV, you have my support and monies already for XIM4. Cannot wait to get a hand on the product. It can only get better.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zacharybinx34 on 08:32 AM - 11/29/13
41 Page thread - To save others from my fate..

 11/29/2013 @ 0915 EST:
      BETA Status - Nothing Yet, Soon
      XIM4 Status - Nothing Yet, No ETA given

Does that sound about right?  I just want to be sure I didnt miss something on like page 32.  Playing with a controller is killing me..  literally (in game).

Thank you for all of your hard work devs  Take all of the time you need!  My XIM Edge is awesome and I know you won't let the XIM4 out the door until it is absolutely ready (maybe DICE/EA should take some notes from you?!  :D )

Yeah seems about right.

I really really really hope OBsIV decides to release a few XIM4's into the wild for the upcoming beta test. I don't have my edge anymore, and waiting 2-3 months is boo hoo hoo for me.


Do it you can buy it later again.

^ This,  you will make money to buy a XIM4 for free if you do it right now. I just sold my XIM edge on Ebay for 122. Bought it during the Beta, sold it for more than I bought it for, speaks for the quality of the product if you can sell it at a profit even after production ceased. All ready for XIM4 cause I know it will definitely support the PS3  ;D. And I want to support an excellent product by an excellent team with brilliant communication skills to the end users.
   
   I have never ever seen communication so transparent, honest and involving the end users in decisions.  Kudos to the whole team. Brilliant company.

    ObSIV, you have my support and monies already for XIM4. Cannot wait to get a hand on the product. It can only get better.


I agree completely.

I honestly don't understand why other company's don't realize that customers appreciate open and frequent communication.

XIM team is excellent at that, and I think it' one of the main reasons their customer satisfaction is so high.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: giuseppe on 08:35 AM - 11/29/13
Absolutely.  I am one link away from buying a XIM4 with express shipping on it.  If that link shows up in my email, someone is getting short changed come christmas time in the name of me getting a XIM4 ASAP.

Yes OBsIV, we are THAT loyal.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: nobodyfamous on 11:37 AM - 11/29/13
Absolutely.  I am one link away from buying a XIM4 with express shipping on it.  If that link shows up in my email, someone is getting short changed come christmas time in the name of me getting a XIM4 ASAP.

Yes OBsIV, we are THAT loyal.

wait there is a email list for when its avalible ?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:06 PM - 11/29/13
Yes you missed it so you are on the second batch now?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: wunderdunce on 12:07 PM - 11/29/13
Really? I must have missed it also :(
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:08 PM - 11/29/13
Cmon guys there is no email list
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:09 PM - 11/29/13
Relax Obsiv has promised this time ordering will not be a horror movie.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 12:10 PM - 11/29/13
I have one of the fastest gaming monitors if not the fastest (Asus vg248qe) and Im happy to report that the input lag on PS4 via BLUETOOTH controller in cod is absolutely minimal. I think it is around 15-25ms. Imo its around 1 frame delay circa (~16ms). Its hard to tell with the sticks, since they have a deadzone. But with button presses it feels very responsive.

XIM via Bluetooth for ps4 IS a viable option, Im telling you this with confidence! If the xim4 wont introduce alot of its own bluetooth delay, it will be a descent solution (utilizing bluetooth for xim)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: wunderdunce on 12:12 PM - 11/29/13
roads @#$% you, I just spent the last 5 minute of my life frantically searching for a nonexistent list .  ;D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:15 PM - 11/29/13
LOL sorry had to take this one.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 12:19 PM - 11/29/13
Hm any update on PS4 would be great. I'm really thinking of selling it on ebay.de (ridiculous pricing atm) and getting an XBONE. Without XIM support i don't know what to do with the PS4^^. I can't go back to controller :S

if you cans ell it for profit than do so as soon as you can. stocks will come around so the more you wait the more you have to lose. you can buy it later i don't see XIM working for PS4 before january in the earliest. after the xmas and all stocks for PS4s should begin to improve. meanwhile you can game on xbox with the xim beta
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 12:27 PM - 11/29/13
Yes you missed it so you are on the second batch now?
priceless. sorry guys but it was really funny, you must get to know roads to keep up with his humor, you won't regret it.


@sancti but mouse communication is not the same as a button press in DS4 (not trying to question or discredit anything you said). you cannot humanly replicate the amount of info a mouse will be outputting by pressing buttons, trust me you'd ruin the buttons and your fingers before it would be possible xD

this will be hit or miss and depend a lot on OB's and Orbital's work (the BT passthrough). i do have faith as they deserve it and it's possible they achieve a good enough situation. but this will never be ideal, a lot of the more hardcore XIMers will always notice and be off put by it.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 12:38 PM - 11/29/13
Yes thats why I said with the buttons. The analog sticks felt a little less responsive than the buttons, but its hard for me to tell if the deadzone was one of the reasons for that.

However even with how the analog sticks felt ingame, I found it really acceptable and IMO using the mouse will still be infinite ammount of times better than using the analog sticks :D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 12:46 PM - 11/29/13
Yes thats why I said with the buttons. The analog sticks felt a little less responsive than the buttons, but its hard for me to tell if the deadzone was one of the reasons for that.

However even with how the analog sticks felt ingame, I found it really acceptable and IMO using the mouse will still be infinite ammount of times better than using the analog sticks :D

such a +1.

analog sticks are not only the worst thing to ever happen to shooters they completely prevent any and all ways you'd have to test this without taking it apart and using other tools. another pro point for the mouse, it lets us easily test and "feel" things as if all the other reasons are not enough xD
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:50 PM - 11/29/13
Obsiv we need some new info, something and it better be positive. We can barelly hold RML together.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 01:08 PM - 11/29/13
No new info right now. Its Thanksgiving here so we are taking a break, sorry. :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 01:13 PM - 11/29/13
HOW DARE YOU TAKE A BREAK FOR THANKSGIVING?!!?!?! THERE ARE EARLY CONSOLE ADOPTERS WHO CAN'T SURVIVE WITH CONTROLLERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111!111111

Seriously though, I hope everyone had a good holiday.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 01:15 PM - 11/29/13
No new info right now. Its Thanksgiving here so we are taking a break, sorry. :)

Have a happy one at that and please do take a break. life is your no1 priority, not impatient clients ^^
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 01:16 PM - 11/29/13
HOW DARE YOU TAKE A BREAK FOR THANKSGIVING?!!?!?! THERE ARE EARLY CONSOLE ADOPTERS WHO CAN'T SURVIVE WITH CONTROLLERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111!111111

Seriously though, I hope everyone had a good holiday.

needs more 1's. xD
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 01:22 PM - 11/29/13
needs more 1's. xD

It's always difficult to find the right balance of 1's to exclamation points whilst faux nerd raging.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 01:32 PM - 11/29/13
It needed to be in bold underline.

And red font colour. :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 01:43 PM - 11/29/13
It's always difficult to find the right balance of 1's to exclamation points whilst faux nerd raging.

QFT. the "needs more 1s" is more of a reflex reply to denote comprehension and laughs induced by the original post than anything else..
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Thera6179 on 02:00 PM - 11/29/13
No new info right now. Its Thanksgiving here so we are taking a break, sorry. :)

Have a good one man!!.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 03:41 PM - 11/29/13
So XBONE support is already finished and everyone is focused on PS4 support?

I really hope so!

i hope so too

(if not let us all intensify our "breath in obsivs neck", but after his thanksgiving rest :) )
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 04:01 PM - 11/29/13
It's always difficult to find the right balance of 1's to exclamation points whilst faux nerd raging.

QFT. the "needs more 1s" is more of a reflex reply to denote comprehension and laughs induced by the original post than anything else..

Laughs? What laughs, who said anything about a joke?

:)
Title: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 04:04 PM - 11/29/13
Sorry not accustomed with American rituals. We eork our a.sses off till December 22.
Sure take a break gives new ideas coming back.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: sputnik on 08:37 PM - 11/29/13
LOL ^^^

My instant reaction was frustration too as I'm Australian. "C'mon, Thanksgiving isn't a real holiday!!" was my first thought...

I've been playing Tanks and IFVs in BF4 and trying to strengthen my skills there. I recommend it to other Battlefielders if, like me, you let those skills slide in favour of the awesomeness of xim infy play. I'm actually really glad I have been pressured into it because I was starting to feel pretty useless and narrowing my map choices to infy based maps. Having a great time now...64 plyr Conquest is amazeballs!

The other thing is Im still doing pretty well in infy and it strengthened a theory I had that accuracy and response time helps, but positioning and decisions is what makes the difference.

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 11:44 PM - 11/29/13
Its of course very strange to take a break in this situation when itís the hottest phase bringing out a new device, the whole community waiting for the beta and a solution to the PS4 problem and when you can take a 6 month nap Q2 2014. I am quite sure itís the family who wont let him work these times.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 12:48 AM - 11/30/13
One of the things we don't do is knock thanksgiving in america roads. Even certain chains deciding to open on that day has caused huge controversy just recently.

My employees will have off on thanksgiving.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:11 AM - 11/30/13
No no I understand that. Just yesterday I had a US patient and I talked with him about where living is nicer US vs. Germany. He said that our Sunday closed everything every week no exception was driving him crazy at first but now he kind of likes that day of the week. Safety was a lot better in Germany and our no gun policy he liked a lot but those are other topics.
Its just when I opened my shop I was working non-stop half a year no matter if it was Christmas or my birthday.
Everything is fine a week or two delay wont change anything.

I find it simply funny Obsiv is keeping information from us that would be nice to have and then he gives us info he should not. LOL
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joey McCamper on 06:51 AM - 11/30/13
Enjoy your break ObsIV! I'm enjoying my 4 day weekend. Make Mist and Orbital work overtime but pay them regular.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: giuseppe on 09:13 AM - 11/30/13
One of the best parts of thanksgiving - leftovers.  I can't wait to clean my fridge of them.. all of the food and none of the stress of everyone coming in to town and yelling over each other.  Breakfast today .. stuffing, turkey, egg hash... and pecan pie.   Those that do not have thanksgiving should make the food anyway because it is awesome.

Also awesome.. XIM stuff.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: dragon9 on 09:28 AM - 11/30/13
It's good to be back and I can't wait to help.  :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Atlasprime on 10:23 AM - 11/30/13
I love thanksgiving but i can see myself getting consumed with this project. Obsiv, orbital, mist, etc, lemme know if you need a hand with anything. Been with you since xim1 and could see myself losing hours days weeks working with you. In the meantime... NOMNOMNOM
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Life Assault on 01:49 PM - 11/30/13
Can't wait to hear more news about XbOne.  Happy thanksgiving (late) to everyone though.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: nobodyfamous on 10:56 PM - 11/30/13
No no I understand that. Just yesterday I had a US patient and I talked with him about where living is nicer US vs. Germany. He said that our Sunday closed everything every week no exception was driving him crazy at first but now he kind of likes that day of the week. Safety was a lot better in Germany and our no gun policy he liked a lot but those are other topics.
Its just when I opened my shop I was working non-stop half a year no matter if it was Christmas or my birthday.
Everything is fine a week or two delay wont change anything.

I find it simply funny Obsiv is keeping information from us that would be nice to have and then he gives us info he should not. LOL

i kno right ? lmao
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 01:19 PM - 12/01/13
No no I understand that. Just yesterday I had a US patient and I talked with him about where living is nicer US vs. Germany. He said that our Sunday closed everything every week no exception was driving him crazy at first but now he kind of likes that day of the week. Safety was a lot better in Germany and our no gun policy he liked a lot but those are other topics.
Its just when I opened my shop I was working non-stop half a year no matter if it was Christmas or my birthday.
Everything is fine a week or two delay wont change anything.

I find it simply funny Obsiv is keeping information from us that would be nice to have and then he gives us info he should not. LOL

Thanksgiving here is a major holiday that you spend with family. OBsIV is already doing XIM work full time along with another full time career.

I think you're asking a little much if your expectation is that he works through holidays to provide a luxury product to early console adopters.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: metr0 on 01:39 PM - 12/01/13
maybe obsiv will release the beta tomorrow. I dreamt last night i was wrecking kids on the xbox one with M/K...then i woke up and threw my x1 controller out my window and cried. and now here i am.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:51 PM - 12/01/13
No no I understand that. Just yesterday I had a US patient and I talked with him about where living is nicer US vs. Germany. He said that our Sunday closed everything every week no exception was driving him crazy at first but now he kind of likes that day of the week. Safety was a lot better in Germany and our no gun policy he liked a lot but those are other topics.
Its just when I opened my shop I was working non-stop half a year no matter if it was Christmas or my birthday.
Everything is fine a week or two delay wont change anything.

I find it simply funny Obsiv is keeping information from us that would be nice to have and then he gives us info he should not. LOL

Thanksgiving here is a major holiday that you spend with family. OBsIV is already doing XIM work full time along with another full time career.

I think you're asking a little much if your expectation is that he works through holidays to provide a luxury product to early console adopters.

Not asking anything and I am understanding the holiday.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Loki on 09:41 PM - 12/01/13
I hope everyone is enjoying their holiday weekend, I know I am. I have eaten so much good food, all I need now is some Xim4 dessert.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 12:39 AM - 12/02/13
Is it hot in the XIM4 Desert?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 01:37 AM - 12/02/13
Judging by his avatar he may think it's in de dust.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 06:42 AM - 12/02/13
Idea, maybe its time for a XIM input device, license that with Sony and leave the XIM out of harms way. I am thinking about a left hand device that is like the N52te, Orbweaver, G13 but that can also be used on the lap as full controller replacement. Several advantages. No controller around for example. Imagine a G13 that has a second stick and ABXY buttons Bumper and trigger. A detachable Sony stick like, for the right hand. If I take the controller I always think my hands are too close together.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 07:10 AM - 12/02/13
You think too much about things roads.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 07:50 AM - 12/02/13
Yeah maybe the idea is stupid but itís the thing that is missing right now a controller that is licensed.
Btw even starting the project would get valuable information from Sony without exposing the XIM. Information some competitors have as they are licensing devices as someone said.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Loki on 09:04 AM - 12/02/13
Is it hot in the XIM4 Desert?

LOL, Didnít realize my phone spell check switched my word, I like to thank the Human Thesaurusís  we have on the internet.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Loki on 09:06 AM - 12/02/13
Judging by his avatar he may think it's in de dust.


What's wrong with my avatar?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joey McCamper on 09:22 AM - 12/02/13
This is the week we get an update  ;D. Happy Monday everyone.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Leftfieldgenecide on 09:42 AM - 12/02/13
Roads you have many an idea as a cascading water fall, BUt I agree with your persistents I'm clucking to use my Kbm on my new glossy ps4 :(
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sgt8Bit on 09:46 AM - 12/02/13
This is the week we get an update  ;D. Happy Monday everyone.

I just hope 'this week' doesn't mean Friday.....fingers crossed.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Atlasprime on 10:00 AM - 12/02/13
Surprise firmware drop today ?!?!  A guy can wish :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 10:14 AM - 12/02/13
As much as we are impatient to get to try a xim with next gen systems, if were honest to ourselves, right now there arent that any shooters that make you want to play them really hard.

In other words the recent shooters suck on next gen consoles (cod, bf, KZ). At least until they get some serious patching, those games are boring and frustrating at times.

So while I initially couldnt wait to get the edge firmware update, right now, after realizing that the recent shooters arent that great, I dont mind waiting till next year.

I mean I have Ghosts for 360, but me and my mates just dont seem to bother to play it, even though we could use our xims.

As much as youre guys impatient, like I was, most of you know that the recent shooters arent that great at all, and having a KBM doesnt make that much of a change right now. A boring and cheesy shooter stays the same even if you use KBM with it.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sgt8Bit on 12:15 PM - 12/02/13
As much as we are impatient to get to try a xim with next gen systems, if were honest to ourselves, right now there arent that any shooters that make you want to play them really hard.

In other words the recent shooters suck on next gen consoles (cod, bf, KZ). At least until they get some serious patching, those games are boring and frustrating at times.

So while I initially couldnt wait to get the edge firmware update, right now, after realizing that the recent shooters arent that great, I dont mind waiting till next year.

I mean I have Ghosts for 360, but me and my mates just dont seem to bother to play it, even though we could use our xims.

As much as youre guys impatient, like I was, most of you know that the recent shooters arent that great at all, and having a KBM doesnt make that much of a change right now. A boring and cheesy shooter stays the same even if you use KBM with it.

Yeah, but now's a great time to run the Beta.  That way, when the big shooters hit the market (see 'Titanfall') we would have run a successful Beta, work out all the bugs and possibly have net new XIM4 hardware right in time for said big shooter.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 12:18 PM - 12/02/13
Judging by his avatar he may think it's in de dust.

What's wrong with my avatar?

nothing, re-read it, "... it's in de_dust" :P
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: metr0 on 12:20 PM - 12/02/13
you have a CS avatar. de_dust is a popular map.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Rambos_BFF on 01:11 PM - 12/02/13
As much as we are impatient to get to try a xim with next gen systems, if were honest to ourselves, right now there arent that any shooters that make you want to play them really hard.

In other words the recent shooters suck on next gen consoles (cod, bf, KZ). At least until they get some serious patching, those games are boring and frustrating at times.

So while I initially couldnt wait to get the edge firmware update, right now, after realizing that the recent shooters arent that great, I dont mind waiting till next year.

I mean I have Ghosts for 360, but me and my mates just dont seem to bother to play it, even though we could use our xims.

As much as youre guys impatient, like I was, most of you know that the recent shooters arent that great at all, and having a KBM doesnt make that much of a change right now. A boring and cheesy shooter stays the same even if you use KBM with it.

Speak for yourself! I want to play with mouse and keyboard on ghosts for xbone right meeeeeeeeeeeeow! Hehehehe. =)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 01:13 PM - 12/02/13
Can I see your license meow
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 01:21 PM - 12/02/13
Do I look like a cat? All nimbly bimbly.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Thera6179 on 02:36 PM - 12/02/13
Forget the PS4 I still have the PS3 and I just sold my edge, so eagerly waiting for XIM4E, but I'd rather have a finished product than "early" unfinished product. I can wait  ::)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: thebside on 02:37 PM - 12/02/13
Jumping from tree to tree?  Drinking milk from a saucer?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 05:17 PM - 12/02/13
MEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Atlasprime on 06:28 PM - 12/02/13
RUFF RUFF!!!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 06:37 PM - 12/02/13
Lol totally degraded the thread. Anyway hopefully well hear some good news about xbone soon.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 06:40 PM - 12/02/13
Friday is my guess. Leave everyone stewing over the weekend.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Loki on 08:59 PM - 12/02/13
Judging by his avatar he may think it's in de dust.

What's wrong with my avatar?

nothing, re-read it, "... it's in de_dust" :P



Lol
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Loki on 09:03 PM - 12/02/13
Friday doesn't help me, I have the xim3, I am ready for the xim4.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: giuseppe on 09:03 AM - 12/03/13
Lol totally degraded the thread. Anyway hopefully well hear some good news about xbone soon.

Haha.. ^ this.

Any news would be good news at this point.  I feverishly check the site multiple times per day looking for something.  I am getting better with a controller - and I am unlocking everything for vehicles in the meantime but I can't help but wonder how nasty I would be if I had my XIM.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: TheCityWok on 12:18 PM - 12/04/13
Just orded a bone. Feels good to have both bought.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: colb on 03:07 PM - 12/04/13
I actually like Roads' idea of a "XIM Controller", sort of device.


Of course, then you have to actually sell the controller. And then you would probably need to pair it with the XIM4. Talk about high costs.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 03:44 PM - 12/04/13
I actually like Roads' idea of a "XIM Controller", sort of device.


Of course, then you have to actually sell the controller. And then you would probably need to pair it with the XIM4. Talk about high costs.

I've gone from being a strong advocate of Sony licensing to someone who now thinks it's a terrible idea. Reason being that I read a thread on here where Treyarch were basically saying in crystal clear terms that they would ban XIM users (while admitting that they had zero ability to catch them). If the XIM depends on a Sony license for its ability to work then Treyarch could no doubt ask Sony for some sort of license number, which Sony would give them, and they would then block it in the game code.

This would include any 'XIM input device' as soon as word got out that the device was just being used to get XIM working on PS4, which it inevitably would.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 03:48 PM - 12/04/13
I'd like to make two (hopefully not too unreasonable) requests:

1. If it's looking like PS4 support will take ages to come, or possibly not come at all (let's say March or later) can we get notice of this before Xmas so we can sell our PS4s at an inflated price, before the next shipments arrive?

2. This has been asked already but could XIM4 have the option to work using USB and a third party USB device - so that people who want to pay extra to get input lag down as low as possible have the option to do so (albeit that the XIM4 would be a standalone device working via Bluetooth)? This might also be useful if Sony ever do enable the DS4 to work via USB.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 05:15 PM - 12/04/13
Latency is unclear. We need to try it first before making a decision against it.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: gibkeeg on 08:56 PM - 12/04/13
Any progress on the bluetooth passthrough front? Encryption?  Are you and GIMX doing any type of joint effort ?  I'm not sure if Matlo got his PS4 yet.  I've talked with  Frank from eleccelerator.com also, looks like he's trying for the the flexible circuit to fit inside the Dualshock aka XIM2 style.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 09:17 PM - 12/04/13
Yes, I've talked to Frank at length about this. He reached out to me. He's a really nice guy and we had a lot of good discussion.

Concerning GIMX, I've never spoken to the developer. I don't believe we will need to.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zombieguy on 09:30 PM - 12/04/13
He's a really nice guy and we had a lot of good discussion.

A good conversation in general or a good constructive conversation of the potential of moving forward?:)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 09:37 PM - 12/04/13
Just talking about the PS4 problem and verifying for sure that wired will, in fact, not work.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 10:04 PM - 12/04/13
How will licensed controllers then work? The will all have BT as well and have a cord as the DS4?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 10:45 PM - 12/04/13
There will be likely wired controllers with an authentication chip.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: anony on 10:48 PM - 12/04/13
There will be likely wired controllers with an authentication chip.

bingo
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 11:10 PM - 12/04/13
So you will wait for these licensed controllers and test the wireless meanwhile?

What about letting us play over W11ces XIM2 like entry point with the Edge on PS4 meanwhile? I am sure you have seen the new thread.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Leftfieldgenecide on 08:35 AM - 12/05/13
I'm hoping W11ces idea starts to pick up some momentum.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 09:07 AM - 12/05/13
so BT basically not doable because we need to make a physical change/mod within the controllers pcb?
see here from Frank Zhao

http://eleccelerator.com/weekly-report-december-1-2013/




waiting for a controller with official licence sounds like a stupid plan, no one knows when we will see such a unit
on top of that it means additional costs as everyone needs to purchase such a controller
and even then who guarantees us that there isnt just another security measurement on the wired controller?


w11ce plan looks quite promising though, obsiv maybe you should also consider a controller pcb modification like we had with the xim360
being full depenant on an unsure release of a certain controller aint a good strategy to rely on imo
always hold at least two aces in your hand!

edit:
nope having to work through pc wont secure the STs well enough, obsiv surely wont go the controller modification way :(
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 09:16 AM - 12/05/13
Also as always let us know if there's anyway we could help obsiv. Nice find odin. Wiice also did a nice job.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 02:00 PM - 12/05/13
and even then who guarantees us that there isnt just another security measurement on the wired controller?

Exactly. Wouldn't surprise me at all if there were another security measure in place.

Being a bit more optimistic, if it is technically difficult for Sony to block a wired passthrough solution, maybe they won't have put the effort in to do it. Because if anyone wants to use a wired passthrough solution, they'll need to buy a licensed 3rd party USB controller with Sony getting some of the $$$ from it. Seeing as wired passthrough doesn't work with the DS4.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 02:08 PM - 12/05/13
Who cares if you need to buy a wired controller. I don't think any of us here would mind buying a 3rd party contoller to use XIM orbsiv. Man I do love my wires. Keeps twats from messing with my @#$%
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Loki on 02:32 PM - 12/05/13
Who cares if you need to buy a wired controller. I don't think any of us here would mind buying a 3rd party contoller to use XIM orbsiv. Man I do love my wires. Keeps twats from messing with my @#$%

+1, I don't mind at all.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: gibkeeg on 02:50 PM - 12/05/13
Reposting this here, didn't want to derail the other thread.

Here are the active Dev's working on PS4 Bluetooth, all the info is gathered from them.

http://www.xim3.com - Focused on Xboxeone beta currently, no info on bluetooth status

http://blog.gimx.fr - Focused on Bluetooth Emulation via PC, actively working on bluetooth, no real info released. Direct info http://blog.gimx.fr/the-ps4-is-not-taking-inputs-from-usb-devices/ also some info on forum.


http://eleccelerator.com/blog/ - Verified Bluetooth emulation/sniffing issues, currently working on flexboard option
I've also followed his posts with the actually bluetooth sniffer program dev's and their seems to be some strange dynamic CERN changes happening with the bluetooth communication between the PS4 and DS4, possible security feature making it impossible to even decern the bluetooth traffic patterns to accurately sniff the packets. Source..  http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=31676931

http://cronusmax.com/ - All info they've released so far appears to be just an attempt to sale as many cronusmax inventory that Executor bought out from the the original cronus.  Everything released so far has been done via PS4 to PC bluetooth emulation which is not encryped/secured by Sony, and the PS4 UI demo was via the PS3 move.    Even if the bluetooth is Ps4-to-DS3 is figured out , the cronusmax appears to have limited cpu power to do the emulation so it would most likely be a knew device.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 03:04 PM - 12/05/13

http://cronusmax.com/ - All info they've released so far appears to be just an attempt to sale as many cronusmax inventory that Executor bought out from the the original cronus.  Everything released so far has been done via PS4 to PC bluetooth emulation which is not encryped/secured by Sony, and the PS4 UI demo was via the PS3 move.    Even if the bluetooth is Ps4-to-DS3 is figured out , the cronusmax appears to have limited cpu power to do the emulation so it would most likely be a knew device.

the worst rep in the business lol.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 03:19 PM - 12/05/13
OK people. Some potentially good news. Need a bit of help from German speakers, though...

http://www.ps4-forum.de/news/playstation4-logitech-sichert-support-t1344.html

Quote
Doch so ganz wollte man die Gamer dann doch nicht im Regen stehen lassen und versicherte, dass man die erhšltliche Hardware weiter supporten werde, damit diese auch auf den neuen Konsolen funktionieren wird. Dazu gehŲrt unter anderem das G27 Lenkrad.

My German's rusty and I don't trust Google translate to give an exact meaning. But doesn't this say that Logitech are trying to get existing hardware to work on the new consoles? Not just the G27 wheel which apparently everyone has been complaining about/ begging to get working on PS4 because it says the G27 'unter anderem' i.e. 'amongst other' devices'?

So is there any hope from this that Logitech will be paying Sony a load of money to make some of their existing USB devices work generically? Including possibly USB gamepads?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Thera6179 on 03:21 PM - 12/05/13
Who cares if you need to buy a wired controller. I don't think any of us here would mind buying a 3rd party contoller to use XIM orbsiv. Man I do love my wires. Keeps twats from messing with my @#$%

+1, I don't mind at all.

+10,
          I don't mind buying a crappy 20$ 3rd party controller to make XIM work with PS4. May be we can do a poll and see what other users think in the general forum. The poll results will tell you where the PS4 users will be leaning towards.

        After all its XIM4 not only going to be a PS4 machine, its a Xbox 360/XB1/PS3 & (PS4). There is more value to it than you think.  ;)
         
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 03:21 PM - 12/05/13
Look at Upcoming PS4 Peripherals

http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-Peripherals-Support/List-of-Compatible-PS3-Accessories-for-PS4-Updated-11-26-2013/td-p/40831841
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 04:05 PM - 12/05/13
Quote
Doch so ganz wollte man die Gamer dann doch nicht im Regen stehen lassen und versicherte, dass man die erhšltliche Hardware weiter supporten werde, damit diese auch auf den neuen Konsolen funktionieren wird. Dazu gehŲrt unter anderem das G27 Lenkrad.


just a rough translate, no real 1:1 word/saying translation

"But Sony didnt want to leave the gamers out in the rain, they assured that they will support the current available hardware so that those will also function on the new consoles. Among those devices theres also the G27"
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: lh82p on 04:44 PM - 12/05/13
Look at Upcoming PS4 Peripherals

http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-Peripherals-Support/List-of-Compatible-PS3-Accessories-for-PS4-Updated-11-26-2013/td-p/40831841

Upcoming Controller BT/USB "Yes"   <---- look's good!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sledge_Hammer on 06:27 PM - 12/05/13
Keep the faith people, PS4 is in its infancy, come the New Year there will hopefully be a compatible USB controller. From what Iíve read and going on my very limited technical knowledge I think a 3rd party controller is the way to go, Iíd be prepared to wait longer for it as Iíve never been a fan of wireless technologies. In saying that, whatever works best will get my vote.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: glenn37216 on 06:52 PM - 12/05/13
Gamestop URKEL kid told me today an aftermarket wired controller is coming out early January on the ps4. So we will not have to wait very long to see if usb wired will work or not . :/ 
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 06:59 PM - 12/05/13
We will all need something like this...


(http://i.imgur.com/mJnc8Nk.jpg)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zombieguy on 07:32 PM - 12/05/13
Why is your D-pad all greasy look'n?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 09:39 PM - 12/05/13
Keep the faith people, PS4 is in its infancy, come the New Year there will hopefully be a compatible USB controller. From what Iíve read and going on my very limited technical knowledge I think a 3rd party controller is the way to go, Iíd be prepared to wait longer for it as Iíve never been a fan of wireless technologies. In saying that, whatever works best will get my vote.

If they talk encrypted to the P4 then there is no way Obsiv can do this legally. Right now there is only authentication on the 360/PS3. He authenticates and the passes through and along.
All indicates this will be the case.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 09:49 PM - 12/05/13
Why is your D-pad all greasy look'n?

It isn't the grease you should be looking at, you should be noticing that it's wired and not wireless.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: glenn37216 on 09:51 PM - 12/05/13
Roads... Unfortunately I am convinced your right.  GameStop has told me all aftermarket controllers have to be approved by Sony  or they will not work on the ps4 .  they have a security implemented in the ps4 that acts like a decrypter .. No approval from Sony = no working USB stand alone device .
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 10:10 PM - 12/05/13
They are just doing exactly what Xbox 360 did. Wired sold separately, licensed-only.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 10:17 PM - 12/05/13
They are just doing exactly what Xbox 360 did. Wired sold separately, licensed-only.

But 360 made the wired ones themselves as well.

Is Sony going to follow suit and make official wired DS4's you think?

If so that's going to be our golden ticket right there.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 10:17 PM - 12/05/13
They are just doing exactly what Xbox 360 did. Wired sold separately, licensed-only.

If that is so, authentication chip and then free talk, then you will have no problem but if a controller has random encryption talking to the PS4 then, yeah what then?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GreyMouser on 11:38 PM - 12/05/13
They are just doing exactly what Xbox 360 did. Wired sold separately, licensed-only.

But 360 made the wired ones themselves as well.

Is Sony going to follow suit and make official wired DS4's you think?

If so that's going to be our golden ticket right there.

LTTP...I would think Sony would have to respond to complaints about the short DS4 battery life. I hope one response is a wired controller.

On a side note, I won't be able to participate in the beta. I won't be getting either next-gen console until Q1 of 2014 at the earliest. But I'm, of course, curious to see how it goes.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:17 AM - 12/06/13
The only thing hinting there wont be an encryption talk between 3d party and the PS4 is the Sony Move that has authentication only.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: pepsicosmos on 02:12 AM - 12/06/13
Roads... Unfortunately I am convinced your right.  GameStop has told me all aftermarket controllers have to be approved by Sony  or they will not work on the ps4 .  they have a security implemented in the ps4 that acts like a decrypter .. No approval from Sony = no working USB stand alone device .

this are true awesome News!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 02:19 AM - 12/06/13
Seems like the Bluetooth in ds4/ps4 code hops. Practically impossible to match. Booooooooooooo
Seems as though all of XIM supposed competition is gone for the mo
NO PS4/XBONE SUPPORT FOR CRONUSMAX
http://www.cronusmax.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140604
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sledge_Hammer on 07:22 AM - 12/06/13
If they talk encrypted to the P4 then there is no way Obsiv can do this legally. Right now there is only authentication on the 360/PS3. He authenticates and the passes through and along.
All indicates this will be the case.

Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change? Seriously dude youíve got to treat problems like stepping stones, they get you to where you want to be. Nobody knows the future, Sony just have to drop the ball once and weíll be there to catch it. This is the kind of thinking we need..

http://www.youtube.com/v/flge_rw6RG0
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 07:42 AM - 12/06/13
We were talking facts here but OK, wait lemme try.

Everything will be fine, its looking good. No worries Obsiv will solve this, Sony will solve this, Plan- B will solve this. Take a deep breath...again a deep breath.. relax. Relax even more. Hear my voice. The XIM beta will come. The XIM beta will come. The XIM4 will come.
Everything is fine.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 07:43 AM - 12/06/13
Did you like it sledge? How was I?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 07:43 AM - 12/06/13
I didn't watch the Back to the Future video clip but I read the description and it says "we don't need roads".

I chuckled a bit lol.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: wunderdunce on 08:02 AM - 12/06/13
Did you like it sledge? How was I?

I for one found it super pleasant and reassuring. I just got such a warm and positive vibe from you Roads. But then again I have a Xbox One.  ;D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sledge_Hammer on 08:59 AM - 12/06/13
Did you like it sledge? How was I?

Positive waves all the way Roads, have a little faith baby, have a little faith.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Leftfieldgenecide on 09:00 AM - 12/06/13
Roads were invented by the Romans all those years ago, and I'm Afraid to say, they will be around for many more years to come. :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 09:22 AM - 12/06/13
Did you like it sledge? How was I?

Positive waves all the way Roads, have a little faith baby, have a little faith.

I have so much I will get my PS4 next week. Totally confident Obsiv will make it work.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 09:38 AM - 12/06/13
Yea I'm not really worried about if it'll work, just when. Luckily I'm pretty patient.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sgt8Bit on 01:53 PM - 12/06/13
Yeah, and by the sounds of it, it will be via a 3rd party USB controller (certified by Sony of course).  Luckily, according to Obsiv, it will be a quick SW update to enable it on XIM4 when it's released.  It's not ideal as it requires you to purchase said controller, but at this point I don't think PS4 users mind/care at all....
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 02:13 PM - 12/06/13
Questions for anyone with tech knowledge:

How certain can we be that it will be possible to get the normal passthrough solution to work with licensed USB controllers, when they come out? How confident are you that Sony won't have put something in place to block it?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: dragon9 on 03:14 PM - 12/06/13
I've been out for a while. What's the talk on the xbox one?



Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: metr0 on 03:26 PM - 12/06/13
supposedly xim should be functioning for the xbox one....if thats the case can we see a beta release for xbox one soon or are we waiting until both consoles have support?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: sputnik on 04:22 PM - 12/06/13
supposedly xim should be functioning for the xbox one....if thats the case can we see a beta release for xbox one soon or are we waiting until both consoles have support?
+1

But I think they are working up new features for the Xim4 before opening the beta.

The anxious, don't know what Im talking about, part of me keeps saying "just release whatever gets my edge working on the X1 now, and release the Xim4 features later" but I don't know if it works that way.

However, if it did.....gimme gimme gimme now!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: thebside on 04:25 PM - 12/06/13
I am speculating based on what I have been reading, but this is what I believe;
Once they have finished working on getting Xim4 to work on XBOne the next steps will potentially be
a.) Release a statement about Xim4 and features and possible open up a Xim4 page on the website
b.) Release the beta and specification on Hub and Bluetooth dongle required for Xim4E. 
c.)  While the beta testers are hammering away on the beta, focus more time/energy on PS4.

Obsiv?  Am I way off?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sgt8Bit on 04:50 PM - 12/06/13
supposedly xim should be functioning for the xbox one....if thats the case can we see a beta release for xbox one soon or are we waiting until both consoles have support?
+1

But I think they are working up new features for the Xim4 before opening the beta.

The anxious, don't know what Im talking about, part of me keeps saying "just release whatever gets my edge working on the X1 now, and release the Xim4 features later" but I don't know if it works that way.

However, if it did.....gimme gimme gimme now!

I'm with you on releasing the beta ASAP, however it wouldn't be much of a "beta test" if we didn't test all additional features as well.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: t35h on 05:09 PM - 12/06/13
supposedly xim should be functioning for the xbox one....if thats the case can we see a beta release for xbox one soon or are we waiting until both consoles have support?
+1

But I think they are working up new features for the Xim4 before opening the beta.

The anxious, don't know what Im talking about, part of me keeps saying "just release whatever gets my edge working on the X1 now, and release the Xim4 features later" but I don't know if it works that way.

However, if it did.....gimme gimme gimme now!

I'm with you on releasing the beta ASAP, however it wouldn't be much of a "beta test" if we didn't test all additional features as well.

Word. New features is what I'm excited about, not just having a working Xim Edge on new console.

Edit: But I can understand people's pain, going back to a controller takes a lot of getting use to.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: metr0 on 05:47 PM - 12/06/13
im saying obsiv can release FW just to get edge to work on xbox one for now if its ready and he can update said FW with the new features of xim4 later on.

i know im beating a dead horse here but if obsiv cant give eta on beta right now i dont think its near ready.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Pelican on 09:51 PM - 12/06/13
Why are you guys all freaking out? Go play your video games. When Obsiv has news to give us we will get the forum notification. Jesus Christ. It's that simple. Quit speculating every step of the development process. You're all giving each other anxiety.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 10:18 PM - 12/06/13
Why are you guys all freaking out? Go play your video games. When Obsiv has news to give us we will get the forum notification. Jesus Christ. It's that simple. Quit speculating every step of the development process. You're all giving each other anxiety.

finally someone said it lol.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 10:27 PM - 12/06/13
im saying obsiv can release FW just to get edge to work on xbox one for now if its ready and he can update said FW with the new features of xim4 later on.

i know im beating a dead horse here but if obsiv cant give eta on beta right now i dont think its near ready.

We aren't releasing anything to beta until all the features are in.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: kboogie on 11:08 PM - 12/06/13
did yall see this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOj65-Za77Y
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: bafs on 11:15 PM - 12/06/13
hmmm interesting
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 12:00 AM - 12/07/13
did yall see this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOj65-Za77Y

that is exactly the same thing the same thing W11cE is doing, except W11cE let's us use the XIM3/Edge along so his solution is infinitely better than the youtuber's.. well at least it's what it seems to me, that music forced me to give up on the clip before realizing if he has something processing data there or if it's just converting the kb&m input into the DS4, i'm fairly confident it's just that though from the looks of his modded DS4
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 01:49 AM - 12/07/13
did yall see this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOj65-Za77Y

Yes, about two times in the past week in two other threads.

It's been discussed a ton.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: quanchi on 12:10 PM - 12/07/13
so I read the majority of this thread ... screw xbone .. but I am also waiting for a good working xim to work on ps4 before I even buy either ...

I have a suggestion might be a long shot or even pointless .... Have you guys tried seeing if the PsVita can help you get around this connection issue because it can be used as a controller , but that function is wireless though ... I just haven't seen anyone post anything about utilizing the PsVita to help with this "Bluetooth/ wired" issue ???
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Leftfieldgenecide on 12:22 PM - 12/07/13
^ I was thinking that aswell, so I had a look at the specs of the ps vita, and the only thing which you could do in my eyes and I'm no expert far from it, is rip it open and create a xim 2 like creature but as I said I'm no expert just chiming in with points of view.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 02:25 PM - 12/07/13
Have you guys tried seeing if the PsVita can help you get around this connection issue because it can be used as a controller , but that function is wireless though ... I just haven't seen anyone post anything about utilizing the PsVita to help with this "Bluetooth/ wired" issue ???

i have a PSVita and tried that already. it doesn't work
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: willthetech on 01:45 AM - 12/09/13
Looks like the Cronusmax guys are on the lead for now...

http://team-xecuter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141912

 :-\

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:01 AM - 12/09/13
They make it available for free for the existing Chronusmax customers so they are doing what I said to do to the Edge. Obsiv wont get those existing customers away. Good move Chronus.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mindworm22 on 02:02 AM - 12/09/13
And everyone here knows the bottom line:  no matter how much you polish a turd, it's still a turd. 
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:04 AM - 12/09/13
No question nothing id buy.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: lh82p on 02:21 AM - 12/09/13
still waiting for ps4 support  :-\
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 02:49 AM - 12/09/13
still waiting for ps4 support  :-\

"Greatness Awaits" never before existed a more accurate slogan from Sony about their consoles  ;D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: lh82p on 05:26 AM - 12/09/13
still waiting for ps4 support  :-\

"Greatness Awaits" never before existed a more accurate slogan from Sony about their consoles  ;D

true, true, the very hard true :D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OMGsus on 06:03 AM - 12/09/13
Looks like the Cronusmax guys are on the lead for now...

http://team-xecuter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141912

 :-\



First is easy. Right is hard.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: willthetech on 06:40 AM - 12/09/13
I agree...XIM for life... 8)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: willthetech on 07:08 AM - 12/09/13
Looks like the Cronusmax guys are on the lead for now...

http://team-xecuter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141912

 :-\


First is easy. Right is hard.

You guys need to start looking at this guy... http://www.softfactory.com.br/index.php/10-carbon-intro ...All of his stuff looks kind of familiar...Dont you guys think...Even the web desktop software looks like the xim manager...

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sgt8Bit on 07:12 AM - 12/09/13
M/kb support on xbox one with Cronus eh?  Here's hoping the beta releases very soon to keep people from jumping ship.  The smart know Xim is the better solution but the impatient just want m/kb support regardless....
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sledge_Hammer on 08:13 AM - 12/09/13
Any update on the Thrustmaster T80 wheel?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thrustmaster-T80-Driveclub-Edition-Racing/dp/B00F9F047K/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1386597944&sr=8-1&keywords=thrustmaster+t80#productDescription

The First PlayStation 4 officially licensed Racing wheel, limited edition DRIVECLUB, for all Racing games on PlayStation4 starting with the first one: DRIVECLUB!

Product manufactured under official PlayStation4 license and under DRIVECLUB license, the first PS4 racing games!

PlayStation 4 license guarantees 100% compatibility in games and in menus with official "PS" , "Share" and "Options" buttons

DRIVECLUB Limited edition enables Launch synergy and game optimization

Official embedded firmware (allowing for automatic recognition of the wheel by the PS4).
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: pepsicosmos on 08:16 AM - 12/09/13
M/kb support on xbox one with Cronus eh?  Here's hoping the beta releases very soon to keep people from jumping ship.  The smart know Xim is the better solution but the impatient just want m/kb support regardless....

Im still hoping that will come Beta for ps4  :'(
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OMGsus on 08:28 AM - 12/09/13
Pieces are already in place. One thing at a time. Can't rush perfection. (well, you can but it get's crotchety.)

We are happy that others are getting over the next gen connectivity hurdles. The sooner the better for all.

I'm also happy our circle test has become a de facto quality measure. ;)

Now... back to the topic at hand...
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 09:10 AM - 12/09/13
Pieces are already in place. One thing at a time. Can't rush perfection. (well, you can but it get's crotchety.)

sure you can, all you need is proper resources to be injected. like money,or man power,or divine inspiration with no predictability to come/lucky breaks, etc.. ^^

not that i think OB will start hiring/outsourcing anytime soon though. or that you even need to rush at all. so what if a few inpatient guys go shop elsewhere? the consoles will be here for 5-10 years. even if we took 1 full year out of that, odds are high that anyone who has ever tried a XIM will come back sooner or later...


even disregarding possible improvements teamXIM makes on STs for "difficult" games, as those would be leagues away from anything else even more so than what the current predicament is for most supported games.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 09:30 AM - 12/09/13
see guys the competition is never a bad thing for us customers. :)

Seeing that Cronus guys updated their existing device to support KBM on Boner1, it adds some artificial pressure on the xim team.

Now ofcourse- the xim is still a by far superior product in almost any way you look at it, other than cross-plattform controller usage. And if youre serious about KBM gaming on consoles, you will want a xim at all cost, even if you have a cronus already.

Lets be honest here, right now ppl who own a Cronus, most likely also own a XIM. Because when you try a Cronus and enjoy it, the next level of this thing is clearly the XIM. You dont know how great feeling it gives you unless you try it.

You know how great the xim products are, when you take a look at ebay and amazon for used xims and dont see alot of these things beeing sold. Ppl just dont wanna sell them. I cant blame them.

Ive sold my xim3 recently through Amazon, havent shipped yet. I do have an edge here too. But Im still very undecided whether to cancel the sold article or not. because of how great the xim3 is with its display.

Having said all that, I hope we hear some great news from XIM team soon.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 09:35 AM - 12/09/13
 The XIM3 is the last of its kind that has standard translators. Just saying.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 09:37 AM - 12/09/13
and yes take your time guys.

I was tempted to buy a Boner, after reading the Cronus news supporting KBM on boner. But then, luckily, I thought  a little more in depth about it.

Ghosts is not a game that makes me want to play it any time I can, quite the opposite. Its a game thats pretty annoying and boring in its current state. So it still requires at least 2-3 patches I would say, to make it somewhat playable.

And Im not a BF4 guy at all. So I then decided against buying the Boner. Im not gonna do a downgrade in the graphics department, just to be able to play on next gen a few weeks/months earlier. I mean the Boner has probably around 30-40k players online; Im not even sure I would want to play COD on next gen with such a low player number at all.

I will wait patiently, you guys take your time you need to bring another greatness to us.

@roads- Im at a stage where I appreciate the ease of the smart translators and dont want to mess around for hours to find a perfect Standard Translator config.

After the analog stick discrepancy was patched and the latency of the xim improved overall via another patch, Im very happy with the smart translators in the way how they work right now, even on the edge.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 10:02 AM - 12/09/13
@roads- Im at a stage where I appreciate the ease of the smart translators and dont want to mess around for hours to find a perfect Standard Translator config.

It's not about messing around for hours, its about not being able to achieve something. I do have a CronusMax and you do have to fight with the reticule -- no matter how much you tweak.

We plan on being the first too.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 10:03 AM - 12/09/13
Pieces are already in place. One thing at a time. Can't rush perfection. (well, you can but it get's crotchety.)

sure you can, all you need is proper resources to be injected. like money,or man power,or divine inspiration with no predictability to come/lucky breaks, etc.. ^^

not that i think OB will start hiring/outsourcing anytime soon though. or that you even need to rush at all. so what if a few inpatient guys go shop elsewhere? the consoles will be here for 5-10 years. even if we took 1 full year out of that, odds are high that anyone who has ever tried a XIM will come back sooner or later...


even disregarding possible improvements teamXIM makes on STs for "difficult" games, as those would be leagues away from anything else even more so than what the current predicament is for most supported games.

but the first to release will make some serious dough being that there are some people who just can't wait. i'm not saying rush to market but ummm let's get the ball rolling here lol.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sgt8Bit on 10:10 AM - 12/09/13
but the first to release will make some serious dough being that there are some people who just can't wait. i'm not saying rush to market but ummm let's get the ball rolling here lol.

Yeah, there's got to be some kind of balance.  You can't be like Valve/Half Life and "release it when it's ready"...lol....that takes years.

On the other hand you don't want to rush it like EA.  BF4 could have benefited from some more development time, but EA pressed them to get the product out the door before COD.

Don't rush, but at the same time have a target timeframe of when you'd like to have it out by.  I have a feeling Obsiv already had these target dates in his head and has already gone over the target date slip due to having a few more features added.

I guess this is testing everyone's patience (mine included).  Everyone's anxious to get things going on next gen...
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 10:17 AM - 12/09/13
What we are doing has never been done before. We are working hard on the beta. If we wanted to just release X1 support without any additional innovation we could have done that already. The next step for us is to get even further away from PC.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 10:19 AM - 12/09/13
but the first to release will make some serious dough being that there are some people who just can't wait. i'm not saying rush to market but ummm let's get the ball rolling here lol.

i agree entirely. but the concern is not anyone who has tried a XIM but rather people that have not and want to game with kb&m on next gen/current gen. they just won't know the difference or at least the real value of it so it's particularly true what you said for those people, and they are now few..
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 10:22 AM - 12/09/13
I guess this is testing everyone's patience (mine included).  Everyone's anxious to get things going on next gen...

i hear you bro. i have to wait regardless do to me having a PS4 and i'm not selling it for m&kb support.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: metr0 on 10:24 AM - 12/09/13
ill pick up a cronusmax but only out of desperation. you know ill be on the xim train when it comes around. its like buyign a cheap $2 dollar umbrella just to make it home in the rain...but nothing beats the protection of a golf umbrella

Edit: Also getting cronus so i can use my fight stick for Killer Instinct
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 10:25 AM - 12/09/13
Itís a beta like BF4 is right now. Release it if there is something usable. Or call it test the gold version. Spare these guys of buying that crap.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 10:25 AM - 12/09/13
ill pick up a cronusmax but only out of desperation. you know ill be on the xim train when it comes around. its like buyign a cheap $2 dollar umbrella just to make it home in the rain...but nothing beats the protection of a golf umbrella

lol.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: attila4go on 10:26 AM - 12/09/13
Itís a beta like BF4 is right now. Release it if there is something usable. Or call it test the gold version. Spare these guys of buying that crap.

+1
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 10:30 AM - 12/09/13
I'll be speaking to Orbital today to get updated estimates. We are very close.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joey McCamper on 10:30 AM - 12/09/13
ill pick up a cronusmax but only out of desperation. you know ill be on the xim train when it comes around. its like buyign a cheap $2 dollar umbrella just to make it home in the rain...but nothing beats the protection of a golf umbrella

Edit: Also getting cronus so i can use my fight stick for Killer Instinct


This is actually a good analogy lol.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 10:32 AM - 12/09/13
Itís a beta like BF4 is right now. Release it if there is something usable. Or call it test the gold version. Spare these guys of buying that crap.

to be honest i'm with roads on this one. ever since i got my hands on a XIM i just can't game with a controller anymore. its not that i don't want to i can't use both thumb sticks at the same time for some reason lol. the funny thing is i grew up gaming with controllers and using kb&m for one year.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joker76 on 10:34 AM - 12/09/13
I'll be speaking to Orbital today to get updated estimates. We are very close.

Thanks Obs! We know you're working hard to get it out ASAP. I think we were told that there would be an announcement last week so I hope you can understand our impatience. Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 10:38 AM - 12/09/13
I'll be speaking to Orbital today to get updated estimates. We are very close.

Thatís nice, it can stall, it can give errors, it can blink like Rudi the rednose. Itís a beta like COD BF4 and the ONE. I get error messages all the time and its not called beta.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: bigmasta on 10:40 AM - 12/09/13
I'll be speaking to Orbital today to get updated estimates. We are very close.
"..very close"
OBsIV you can't imagine how good it sounds in my ears :D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 10:41 AM - 12/09/13
Actually, I never said that there would be an announcement last week. Someone "inferred" that from something I said which wasn't true.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 10:52 AM - 12/09/13
Actually, I never said that there would be an announcement last week. Someone "inferred" that from something I said which wasn't true.

yeah people were going nuts the past few weeks with speculation lol.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 10:55 AM - 12/09/13
Lol...everyone needs to chill the @#$% out. Your all like little kids on Christmas Eve.
To anyone buying a cronusmax just lol

Quote from OBsIV:
It's not about messing around for hours, its about not being able to achieve something. I do have a CronusMax and you do have to fight with the reticule -- no matter how much you tweak.

We plan on being the first too.

This says it all.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 11:01 AM - 12/09/13
Whats the stick? Let me order it please.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 11:06 AM - 12/09/13
Ooops! I didn't mean to get anyone's hopes up, I was referring to this post. To be fair though I never dated it, I referred to it as a couple of weeks as well.

Yes, official announcements are going to happen, but, we still need to finish up some things. The goal is within the next couple of weeks to officially announce XIM4. Of course, this assumes everything goes as it should, and, sometimes unexpected things happen in this space. :)

XIM4E (as we are calling it) will be XIM4 Beta firmware on Edge in order to help us ship a feature-rich and polished XIM4. There is no plan to support XIM4E after XIM4 ships. At that point you can restore your Edge.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 11:09 AM - 12/09/13
Lol...everyone needs to chill the @#$% out. Your all like little kids on Christmas Eve.


man i'm just trying to be top player in my division (New York) on Battlefield 4. that's all bro.

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/soldier/GuNStAr-HeRo-/stats/935471086/ps4/
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 11:18 AM - 12/09/13
Lol...everyone needs to chill the @#$% out. Your all like little kids on Christmas Eve.


man i'm just trying to be top player in my division (New York) on Battlefield 4. that's all bro.

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/soldier/GuNStAr-HeRo-/stats/935471086/ps4/
They are pretty good stats.
My k/d is only 1.6 on xbox 360 with XIM edge ( I play hardcore conquest though )
Good things come to those who wait
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 11:20 AM - 12/09/13
Lol...everyone needs to chill the @#$% out. Your all like little kids on Christmas Eve.


man i'm just trying to be top player in my division (New York) on Battlefield 4. that's all bro.

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/soldier/GuNStAr-HeRo-/stats/935471086/ps4/
They are pretty good stats.
My k/d is only 1.6 on xbox 360 with XIM edge ( I play hardcore conquest though )
Good things come to those who wait

thanx and 1.6 is still good too. on 360 i'm like a 2.?? playing TDM and Rush but mainly TDM.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 11:21 AM - 12/09/13
Oh, it's no worries mist.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: willthetech on 11:25 AM - 12/09/13
I donít see anything wrong with letting or showing the XIM team how bad we want their new product, you can tell that all others are also feeling the burn. All you see on all the other forums are posts from their users saying we need new consoles support or we are buying the XIM4 when it comes outÖ Funny thing who knows if thatís the name they  are going to go withÖAll I know as soon as the pre order link is active they can count on me to buy one, just wish it could be right now  ;D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joker76 on 11:27 AM - 12/09/13
There was this too.  ;)

There will be an official announcement in the next week or two.

I'm chill though. Not looking for immediate gratification or anything just inquiring about the status or an estimated timeframe, that's all. Curious if we're days away or if it's going to be a couple weeks still. But Obs already said we are very close, so I guess I can be happy with that.  ;D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sgt8Bit on 11:54 AM - 12/09/13
I'll be speaking to Orbital today to get updated estimates. We are very close.

Yeah, I think the "next couple of weeks" quote got everyone excited because those "couple of weeks" have since passed with no update. 

We appreciate you checking in with Orbital and providing us with an ETA.  Would be good to know if we're dealing with days vs weeks/months before the Beta.  That would level set this forum's expectations on what to expect....giving that the "E" in ETA is Estimated.  So we know there's some flexibility built into the timeframe with that...
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 11:56 AM - 12/09/13
Hard births every time. Hard to get used to.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 11:59 AM - 12/09/13
Edge wasn't hard, it went rather smoothly didn't it?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: MaStErBiSh on 12:05 PM - 12/09/13
Well i couldn't resist any longer, just ordered a CronusMAX here in the uk, it will go nicely with my current collection of:
xfps 3.0 sniper pro
Xim 3
Xim Edge

And hopefully a Xim 4 when its available, i just couldn't bare another weekend with no BF4 of the xbone







 
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: nene on 12:17 PM - 12/09/13
I have a edge and xim3 I was wonder can you use nav and mouse with them other guys or just keybroad and mouse I need sumin to hold me over till beta/xim4 my xbone 1 is collect dust coverted back to my 360 codg colors and lighting are washed out I'm at breaking point I'm like a crackhead I need mouse support rehab didnt help
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: MaStErBiSh on 12:25 PM - 12/09/13
Just got me thinking on that, i wander if the Xim's will work with the CornusMax
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Rambos_BFF on 12:40 PM - 12/09/13
I just bought a cronus thingy as well. Want to use it with the xim3 I have for the time being.  I know, impatience is icky. Can't wait for the xim4 though. Very very excited.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:45 PM - 12/09/13
Edge wasn't hard, it went rather smoothly didn't it?

Yes as it was advertised when it was already done. Hell knows what that secrecy was about, the competition already had a screen-less device. But whatever yes it was smooth.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sgt8Bit on 12:53 PM - 12/09/13
I just bought a cronus thingy as well. Want to use it with the xim3 I have for the time being.  I know, impatience is icky. Can't wait for the xim4 though. Very very excited.

I'd be curious to see how well this works.  When you receive it, report back if you don't mind....
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: MaStErBiSh on 01:36 PM - 12/09/13
Will do i paid extra for express shipping should get it for Wednesday.
Originally was going to use it just with keyboard and mouse, but now i am thinking, don't load any configs, connect Xim 3 or Edge up normal to 360 wired controller and then connect through the Cronusmax and see what happens, hopefully it will work and the xim will do its job, if not i will have to rough it for a while just with cronus, got to be better than trying to use the controller with my two fat left thumbs.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 01:39 PM - 12/09/13
so even OMGsus joins into the discussion?
we re digging closer guys, dont stop now! ;)


here are the first nuggets we discoverd!

We plan on being the first too.
If we wanted to just release X1 support without any additional innovation we could have done that already.
I'll be speaking to Orbital today to get updated estimates. We are very close.

(if i would only care for the Xboner... :( )
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Rambos_BFF on 02:20 PM - 12/09/13
I bought the edge and got it a little while ago so I can join the beta.  Just fired it up on the 360. I know it's probably not going to happen, but I really do hope standards make it to the xim4. I've messed with some of the curves, but I just haven't got the right feel. Yet.

Here's to hope.
Title: Re: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 03:24 PM - 12/09/13
@roads- Im at a stage where I appreciate the ease of the smart translators and dont want to mess around for hours to find a perfect Standard Translator config.

It's not about messing around for hours, its about not being able to achieve something. I do have a CronusMax and you do have to fight with the reticule -- no matter how much you tweak.

We plan on being the first too.

I also have a CronusMax, but I'm not going to go out and buy an Xbox One just to use it. I have my XIM EDGE and I'll wait for PS4 support.  And once the XIM4 comes out I'll be buying it as well.

Maybe I'll put up my CronusMax for sale on eBay or something for someone desperate who has a Boner.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: cvccbum on 03:28 PM - 12/09/13
Will do i paid extra for express shipping should get it for Wednesday.
Originally was going to use it just with keyboard and mouse, but now i am thinking, don't load any configs, connect Xim 3 or Edge up normal to 360 wired controller and then connect through the Cronusmax and see what happens, hopefully it will work and the xim will do its job, if not i will have to rough it for a while just with cronus, got to be better than trying to use the controller with my two fat left thumbs.

Technically this should work if XIM really does pass through with the controller. Should be interesting to see! Keep us posted.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: MaStErBiSh on 04:22 PM - 12/09/13
On this tread created today for the CronusMax and PS4 support, kingmike_os from Cronus confirmed the device works through the Xim Edge with a 360 controller, so here's hoping

http://www.xim3.com/community/index.php?topic=29807.15 (http://www.xim3.com/community/index.php?topic=29807.15)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joker76 on 05:09 PM - 12/09/13
I do have a CronusMax and you do have to fight with the reticule -- no matter how much you tweak.

Can you elaborate on this a little? I saw the thread in General Discussion where the CronusMax dev said he can run smart translators through XIM3/Edge hooked up through the CronusMAX. If that's the case, why would the reticule react differently?

Or did you mean you were just running the CronusMax on it's own?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 05:18 PM - 12/09/13
I meant running it on it's own with it's "MaxAim" plugin.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sevids on 05:24 PM - 12/09/13
Sounds similar to when we had to use the GTMax adapter to use XIM3 on the PS3.  It will likely work but who knows if the XB360 Smart Translator will work well with the XBONE version of the game.  Guess we will see.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Atlasprime on 05:27 PM - 12/09/13
He reports the translation is nice.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 05:51 PM - 12/09/13
He reports the translation is nice.

They also claim translation is nice with their MaxAim settings though. I would rather hear it from one of our own.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: lh82p on 06:00 PM - 12/09/13
It works fine, because he tested it on CoD. This game have a very similar Aimmovement on x360/Xone.

But whats abouth BF4? 30fps vs 60fps. There u have much more difference in the movement.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mindworm22 on 06:23 PM - 12/09/13
Guys - having gone through this crap since XIM1, I myself am *not* wanting anything to do with a 3rd party converter.  I totally get why many are willing to shell out the $$$ to get KBAM early for the new gen consoles, but fffffuuuuuuucccccddddge, this brings back some awfully hard memories. 

Help me OBsIV-wan Kenobi, you're my only hope...
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 06:28 PM - 12/09/13
@roads- Im at a stage where I appreciate the ease of the smart translators and dont want to mess around for hours to find a perfect Standard Translator config.

It's not about messing around for hours, its about not being able to achieve something. I do have a CronusMax and you do have to fight with the reticule -- no matter how much you tweak.

We plan on being the first too.

indeed i tried all 3 devices recently how they compare vs each other and couldnt get that precise feel with cronus that xim3 and edge offers, no matter how much Ive tweaked.

Another thing too, it has so many options you can change that you get lost pretty fast. The preset for COD is not bad, its very "usable" but not quite as 1:1 as a xim is. I mean its really amazing that you guys figure out ways to almost remove the acceleration completely in the smart translator. That alone is worth getting a xim.

trying to figure out the acceleration by yourself to then counter it with negative accel is a huge PITA.

And yeah cronusmax with maxaim software isnt as good as xim with smart translators thats for sure. tried it recently in both ghosts and mw3.

I mean its really ok-ish, but if someone is serious about getting the best device to play with your favourite mouse and keyboard on consoles, you cant go without a xim.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Atlasprime on 09:41 PM - 12/09/13
Have you tried it with xim3 or edge? That seems to be its primary value.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sevids on 09:54 PM - 12/09/13
I'm not interested at all in his ability to use KB/M only the ability to mimic the XB360 controller on XBONE.  I guess no one else knows what this means with XIM Edge??
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 10:00 PM - 12/09/13
They're selling a lot of cronusmaxs through this forum right now... I'm just curious if everyone is ok with that. It feels kind of dirty even though its nice that xbone owners have a temporary solution. And obsiv and team xim I'm amazed by your confidence and patience, and above all your commitment to gaming and your community.

I am extremely excited about xim 4, not just having precision mouse aim, but the features it will have that will surely raise the bar for these devices. Saying that I do not wish development to be rushed and we end up with a half working product as seems to be the norm these days in gaming, or at least in games themselves.

As for ppl "jumping ship" I wouldn't call it that as they are still using they're xim devices with this temporary solution. Most if not all will be right here when xim 4 drops because of obvious reasons, though some seem not to have the foresight to see it right now.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Fade2Blak on 10:08 PM - 12/09/13
ObSiv has no reason to b worried or threatened and he knows this.  It is a "temporary" work around.  Surely everyone realizes that at some point in time, a year or so, from now both XIM3 and Edge will stop being supported as the move to next-gen consoles begins to take over game developement.  So the XIM4 will HAVE to be purchased at some time in the future. He has already stated that he will support current gen as long as games are made for it. So both the Edge and The XIM3 probably have 12-18 months of full support left.  Then XIM4 will have its time to shine and carry on the tradition of being the best in the marketplace at what it does.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 10:14 PM - 12/09/13
ObSiv has no reason to b worried or threatened and he knows this.  It is a "temporary" work around.  Surely everyone realizes that at some point in time, a year or so, from now both XIM3 and Edge will stop being supported as the move to next-gen consoles begins to take over game developement.  So the XIM4 will HAVE to be purchased at some time in the future. He has already stated that he will support current gen as long as games are made for it. So both the Edge and The XIM3 probably have 12-18 months of full support left.  Then XIM4 will have its time to shine and carry on the tradition of being the best in the marketplace at what it does.

I'm in total agreement, maybe sometimes I just let the trolls get to me.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Pelican on 10:53 PM - 12/09/13
guys, don't waste your time and your money on these other mouse & keyboard devices.

nothing else exists on the market that will do anything close to what Obsiv has created with the XIM devices.

the competitors are selling sloppy software/hardware mash-ups
every other keyboard & mouse device feels wonky in comparison to the XIM

XIM was built with lots of math. It is a piece of art.

I'm telling you. do not buy anything else.
you. will. not. be. happy. with. it.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 10:59 PM - 12/09/13
Well it kinda reminds me of when xim needed the xfps to function.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mikael on 11:00 PM - 12/09/13
nobody cares about its mouse and keyboard capability, i just use it to play with my xim3 and my xim edge
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 11:10 PM - 12/09/13
guys, don't waste your time and your money on these other mouse & keyboard devices.

nothing else exists on the market that will do anything close to what Obsiv has created with the XIM devices.

the competitors are selling sloppy software/hardware mash-ups
every other keyboard & mouse device feels wonky in comparison to the XIM

XIM was built with lots of math. It is a piece of art.

I'm telling you. do not buy anything else.
you. will. not. be. happy. with. it.

some people have to buy 3rd party because XIM3 is not supported with the up coming beta and there really hasn't been enough word on PS4 support working at all. no one wants to wait.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: CameronMC on 11:16 PM - 12/09/13
I'm so ready to buy the CronusMAX but only so I can use my AMAZING XIM Edge device on Xbox One since there is no ETA for the BETA yet and I'm sure most people are doing the same mainly getting it to use with their already owned XIM product :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mindworm22 on 11:24 PM - 12/09/13
It's the next GTMax, Yobo, XBA, etc, that we PS3 folks used to have to deal with before EDGE came out.  It's not a kbam emulator, it's a conversion bridge. 
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 11:56 PM - 12/09/13
XIM was built with lots of math. It is a piece of art.

Pretty sure that means it's a piece of science.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:16 AM - 12/10/13
What we are doing has never been done before. We are working hard on the beta. If we wanted to just release X1 support without any additional innovation we could have done that already. The next step for us is to get even further away from PC.

That is exactly what you should have done day one. The Cronusmax will take away just the 15% that a nextgen Edge would have taken without the BT stuff. Both ways the 15% would have ended with a XIM4 purchase. The difference would have been you would not have sent a part of the community to the Chronus cash register. Indirectly supporting the competition is, well how should I say, a bit stupid.

You underestimate the urge of the people to play with KBAM.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 12:23 AM - 12/10/13
What we are doing has never been done before. We are working hard on the beta. If we wanted to just release X1 support without any additional innovation we could have done that already. The next step for us is to get even further away from PC.

That is exactly what you should have done day one. The Cronusmax will take away just the 15% that a nextgen Edge would have taken without the BT stuff. Both ways the 15% would have ended with a XIM4 purchase. The difference would have been you would not have sent a part of the community to the Chronus cash register. Indirectly supporting the competition is, well how should I say, a bit stupid.

agreed roads. i don't have an Xbox One but i still wanted you guys to release the beta for it and release updates as you guy progressed with PS4 BT.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 12:36 AM - 12/10/13
What we are doing has never been done before. We are working hard on the beta. If we wanted to just release X1 support without any additional innovation we could have done that already. The next step for us is to get even further away from PC.

That is exactly what you should have done day one. The Cronusmax will take away just the 15% that a nextgen Edge would have taken without the BT stuff. Both ways the 15% would have ended with a XIM4 purchase. The difference would have been you would not have sent a part of the community to the Chronus cash register. Indirectly supporting the competition is, well how should I say, a bit stupid.

You underestimate the urge of the people to play with KBAM.

I respectfully disagree guys... if you produce a product that does not live up to your own expectations let alone everyone else's  it will haunt you in the future.

Although I would love a fast fix what i need is an awesome product. One that will be futureproof for some time to come.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:42 AM - 12/10/13
Quote
I respectfully disagree guys... if you produce a product that does not live up to your own expectations let alone everyone else's  it will haunt you in the future.

Although I would love a fast fix what i need is an awesome product. One that will be futureproof for some time to come.

We are not talking about the finished product here, we are talking about the betaphase and keeping your community happy. The only one that is happy right now about Obsivs decision is the competitor.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 12:55 AM - 12/10/13
Quote
I respectfully disagree guys... if you produce a product that does not live up to your own expectations let alone everyone else's  it will haunt you in the future.

Although I would love a fast fix what i need is an awesome product. One that will be futureproof for some time to come.

We are not talking about the finished product here, we are talking about the betaphase and keeping your community happy. The only one that is happy right now about Obsivs decision is the competitor.

I agree with you in the immediate sense, but really whatever decisions are made now have to be dealt with for years. They have to be solid on the most basic levels even before a beta is released. Theyre pretty much building a foundation right now.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:05 AM - 12/10/13
Quote
They have to be solid on the most basic levels even before a beta is released.

He is adding extra features for weeks now as he said. The basic levels were there from day 2. Building a foundation is right but we see with the Bone what wrong decisions can do. The Xbox community is literally driven to the PS4.
Now I know several people ordering the ChronusMax by making a bad decision and not releasing a beta as a beta is released- half finished. BF4 like, XBOX ONE dash like.

Right decision would have been:

- day 2 release Edge without BT as beta (everyone knew already the edge could be updated without problems)
- later add BT
- later add extra features
- Q1 release XIM4
- decide if Edge is continued without BT and extra features or not.

Chronus would have not sold a single piece of crap and the community would be in great mood.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 01:16 AM - 12/10/13
Well not foundation for m-k support but for how the device interacts with the consoles, peripherals, and interface.





I'm gaming with XIM4 right now on Xbox One and we are close to finishing up the last piece (wireless config). We will be able to give an estimate at the end of this week.



Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:49 AM - 12/10/13
Yeah I get you, build the foundation while we play please.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 01:57 AM - 12/10/13
Yeah I get you, build the foundation while we play please.

Lmao! I can feel it in my plums.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 02:19 AM - 12/10/13
soooooo is BT added for PS4 support or is this just Xbox One talk only?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:25 AM - 12/10/13
ist a @#$% secret.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 02:28 AM - 12/10/13
ist a @#$% secret.

lol.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 03:12 AM - 12/10/13
This happens so often the whole XIM XYZ release is so chewy that when it is finally time I cant be happy. I remember unpacking the XIM3 and I simply felt nothing instead of joy as waiting for the doorstopper was so lengthy. I am baffled how he manages to get my mood down every time. Yes Mist he slipped that with the Edge. Had my fun afterwards when no switchers were in.

Do the following tell your kid that he will get a great toy, tell him before Christmas. Dont give it to him at Christmas day but tell him you have it. Give it to him at the end of the holiday when school begins. Watch his face when he gets it.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Rambos_BFF on 04:19 AM - 12/10/13
Well Roads has a point, if there would have been a temporary solution made for the xim3 and edge I wouldn't have bought the cronus. I will be happy knowing though that I'll always have a back up device for using standards as I don't think xim4 will have those.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: anony on 04:32 AM - 12/10/13
Everyone just be patient. The new consoles and games that are out for it have a tonne of bugs anyways so its best to wait it out a month or two. I mean what will most of us be playing? COD and BF mainly and they are horrendous at this stage.

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 04:44 AM - 12/10/13
Its just ridiculous people are buying the shelves empty at Chronus to be able to use their Edge when its clear it would have been possible with the Edge a month ago. Its not the way to go blabla. Well here we are completely chronused, max.

(http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/i%27m%20out%20of%20here/grand/im-out-of-here-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-2689.gif)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 04:50 AM - 12/10/13
meanwhile free advertizing for the competitor, well done...

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-12-10-xbox-one-mod-unlocks-mouse-and-keyboard-support

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=732085

no talk about the XIM, I mean how there is nothing to talk about except for shhhhhhh. secrecy.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: sputnik on 05:11 AM - 12/10/13
^^ your avatar has growing significance!!  ;D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Pelican on 05:36 AM - 12/10/13
I deserve this, I deserve that. So childish, such entitlement.
Me me me me me!

Right, Roads?

Cry baby Roads, nobody owes you anything. Certainly not the XIM team or Obsiv. If you don't want to wait for a finished product you can always make your own XIM, or buy a PC.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: wunderdunce on 05:45 AM - 12/10/13
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/196157.gif)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 06:04 AM - 12/10/13
I guess it comes down to "how much would you pay for a device that will be obsolete in a month?"
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: wunderdunce on 06:10 AM - 12/10/13
I think it will be obsolete as soon as the beta is released.... ;D


I mean basically they are paying 50-60 bucks for something they are going to get free soon. Well not including the Xim3 users of course.


(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/naked-gun-facepalm.gif)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Atlasprime on 06:38 AM - 12/10/13
Ultimately xim4 will be just fine. We get to use our xim3 edges in the meantime. Im even going to use edge beta. And then xim4. Besides... 50 bucks for a working second controller that doubles as a temp solution for my xim. Why not? My only issue with cronus atm is their price jacking as stock gets low. Looks like the ebay retailer was selling them at 50 for a while but its 200 this morning!!! Would never see an xim price bump like this. (Though its prolly just the 3rd party retailer doing it - still... cant sign something to say dont rape people?)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 06:47 AM - 12/10/13
No amak1 it comes down to, we get to use the Edge and XIM3 through the competitor - ridiculous. Beta is not starting even if it could and competitors work is done- ridiculous. No ETA for the beta people buying the competitor - ridiculous.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 06:54 AM - 12/10/13
meanwhile free advertizing for the competitor, well done...

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-12-10-xbox-one-mod-unlocks-mouse-and-keyboard-support

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=732085

no talk about the XIM, I mean how there is nothing to talk about except for shhhhhhh. secrecy.

man screw this, why would eurogamer talk about kbm adapters like that and report the news.

the kbm thing needs to stay under the radar of the game devs otherwise they might start to feel uncomfortable about all this KBM thing on consoles. If devs meant their games to be used with KBM, they could do it right away, like UT3 shows on PS3. Technically its absolutely possible. PS4 is a pc in a nutshell.

But since they dont chose the native KBM option, it tells us that they dont want this to be supported.

I mean If I wanted to play vs ALL-KBM users, I would go on play PC :D Nah to be honest though, the thing is this- I dont mind playing vs KBM users. But the latest CODs are frustrating to play as they are, even vs controller users, with the insane aim assist and broken camera angles etc. Now if everyone was using kbm, it would be even more frustrating.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joey McCamper on 06:56 AM - 12/10/13
I just spent $30 on Kontrol Freeks for my Xbox One, and spent $50 on the CronusMax. I'll probably be returning the Kontrol Freeks and it's only a $20 difference.

I don't mind keeping the CronusMax for my little brother so he can use scrips on his PS3 while playing CoD.

But bumping up the price from $50 to $200 is insane. He's already making profit at $50.

I'm excited for the XIM beta, and I'm happy with the XIM being my 1st m/kb adapter on console. I don't think I'll find any other product that offers what the XIM offers, from the Smart Translators, this community, and the easy configuration and button mapping. Overall a great experience from a great product.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 07:00 AM - 12/10/13
And yeah obs doesnt need to be concerned one bit. I mean look around how many used xims you can find on ebay or amazon etc. There arent many. And ppl pay crazy money to an old xim, even now when the next gen is out.

On european ebay there are like 2-3 used xims in total, no single xim on amazon UK and others, not even used.

Trust me guys its like it was for many of us, I first heard about the xScorch or something like that, ordered it, tried it and the sold the POS. Was done with kbm adapters for a while. Then Ive read in a random forum discussion about the xim and thats where the fun began.

One thing Ill give the cronus adapter though, its definately second best device out there and if you spend enough time it is very well usable, at least on xim2 level. It has circa the same responsiveness as the xim devices, Ive tested it extensively and they are on the same level of input lag, cronus felt a little more responsive before the major xim patch that further reduced the input lag. But now they are in the same ball park.

I mean dont miss the main Cronus purpose- its to use any controller on any console. The KBM thing is secondary. And for its main purpose it works really well. I can imagine going back to ps3 and replaying some great exclusive games using the wireless DS4.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joker76 on 07:56 AM - 12/10/13
I think it will be obsolete as soon as the beta is released.... ;D

I mean basically they are paying 50-60 bucks for something they are going to get free soon.


Don't forget another $25-$30 for a USB Hub and BT dongle.

I'd imagine many of the people buying Cronus will not be participating in the beta now. Unless they want to shell out the extra cash.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: sikpup on 08:01 AM - 12/10/13
Its just ridiculous people are buying the shelves empty at Chronus to be able to use their Edge when its clear it would have been possible with the Edge a month ago. Its not the way to go blabla. Well here we are completely chronused, max.

(http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/i%27m%20out%20of%20here/grand/im-out-of-here-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-2689.gif)
Keep in mind the original intention of my post was for xim3 owners - not edge owners.  Regardless of what happens with the beta xim3 owners would be left out.  Using the Cronusmax as a bridge dawned on me as a way to still get some life out of the xim3.  Ironically, I started that thread and caused people to go get a cronusmax, yet because I have a ps4, I am still sitting here with no options but to wait regardless...
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: SadCustomer on 08:28 AM - 12/10/13
Desperate xim owners make me lose faith in humanity..
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 08:42 AM - 12/10/13
Its just ridiculous people are buying the shelves empty at Chronus to be able to use their Edge when its clear it would have been possible with the Edge a month ago. Its not the way to go blabla. Well here we are completely chronused, max.

(http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/i%27m%20out%20of%20here/grand/im-out-of-here-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-2689.gif)

Calm down roads. :) Do you really care *that* much? :) I've gone PS4 and I'm almost certainly not going to get any mouse support at all before Xmas but I can't see any point in complaining about it. I'll just play PS3 instead until support comes out. Or until OBsIV confirms that we're all f*cked on PS4, whichever comes first.

The XIM guys aren't stupid and it's their call as to what direction to move the business in. Many people, including me, pointed out a while ago that they had the option of quickly releasing Edge next gen firmware on a chargeable basis to tie people over until XIM4 - and that if they didn't, the money would just go elsewhere - but they chose not to. It's up to them and they will have had good reasons for what they did. What's coming out is that the key aim here from the XIM team is to make the XIM4 as good as possible, not to make a few quick bucks during the transition period. This explains why they preferred to use this period for beta testing and didn't focus on getting to market as quickly as possible. Was this the right call? I don't really know (depends exactly how much money is going to Cronus which could have gone to XIM, I suppose). But I don't see what the point going on about it is - it's up to the XIM team to make these decisions, they have a lot of info which we don't - and if they make the wrong call they'll have to take the hit in terms of profitability.

What I do find surprising is exactly how much people are prepared to pay for a temporary solution until XIM4 comes out. I remember suggesting $30 for Edge firmware but this seems to have been too conservative - people are clearly prepared to pay more than that for the Cronus, solely to use it for a couple of months until XIM4 comes out, at which point they'll let it gather dust.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Atlasprime on 08:51 AM - 12/10/13
No amak1 it comes down to, we get to use the Edge and XIM3 through the competitor - ridiculous. Beta is not starting even if it could and competitors work is done- ridiculous. No ETA for the beta people buying the competitor - ridiculous.

Did Obsiv make a mistake not releasing beta when he could? I would say more so yes. Only because impatient people will drop 50 bones.

Edge User: I went out and bought an edge just for beta. I bought a cronus because beta isnt immediately here. If obsiv releases beta from now till I get the cronus, i am officially burned out of 50 bones lol. Do I care? No, because i want a second controller anyways. (xbox 360 controllers via cronus). Just comes down to a matter of patience for an edge user.

XIM3 user: Now here is a big point. the XIM3 was thrown right out. The cronus, by mimicking the 360 controller, gives it some life. I cant see this being a bad thing.

Why is it so bad cronus exists and helps us? If you are impatient, just say it. It is really the only difference here.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mikael on 08:55 AM - 12/10/13
No amak1 it comes down to, we get to use the Edge and XIM3 through the competitor - ridiculous. Beta is not starting even if it could and competitors work is done- ridiculous. No ETA for the beta people buying the competitor - ridiculous.



Did Obsiv make a mistake not releasing beta when he could? I would say more so yes. Only because impatient people will drop 50 bones.

Edge User: I went out and bought an edge just for beta. I bought a cronus because beta isnt immediately here. If obsiv releases beta from now till I get the cronus, i am officially burned out of 50 bones lol. Do I care? No, because i want a second controller anyways. (xbox 360 controllers via cronus). Just comes down to a matter of patience for an edge user.

XIM3 user: Now here is a big point. the XIM3 was thrown right out. The cronus, by mimicking the 360 controller, gives it some life. I cant see this being a bad thing.

Why is it so bad cronus exists and helps us? If you are impatient, just say it. It is really the only difference here.

Thats where the cronusmax shines , it brings my edge and my xim3 back to life on xbox one
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 09:00 AM - 12/10/13
No amak1 it comes down to, we get to use the Edge and XIM3 through the competitor - ridiculous. Beta is not starting even if it could and competitors work is done- ridiculous. No ETA for the beta people buying the competitor - ridiculous.

Did Obsiv make a mistake not releasing beta when he could? I would say more so yes. Only because impatient people will drop 50 bones.


I think what didn't come out from roads' post (or my reply) is that what he really wanted was free Edge support, immediately. :) I personally don't agree with this at all - it isn't a charity and why should anyone get next gen support for free? Yes, Cronus are releasing it for 'free' but really they are getting paid handsomely for their work on next gen support because they are now shifting factory fulls of Cronus devices - this wouldn't have been the case with the Edge because they deliberately ran the stock down.

There was an argument for releasing paid for Edge support through firmware as soon as possible, then taking their time to release XIM4 with all the features included. But it's all by the by now...
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: metr0 on 09:25 AM - 12/10/13
No amak1 it comes down to, we get to use the Edge and XIM3 through the competitor - ridiculous. Beta is not starting even if it could and competitors work is done- ridiculous. No ETA for the beta people buying the competitor - ridiculous.

I am 1000% with roads on this. Roads is not bashing Obsiv or what he has done at all but his criticism comes from a business standpoint. Look at all the attention and sales Cronus is getting. All of us here know that the xim is obviously the superior product but as a business if they are able to they should have avoided giving any sales opportunity to any competitors.

We know that the final product will be a polished unit but we are talking about the beta here. you guys are all saying you dont want an unfinished product but you are 1 in a few that are willing to wait. The vast majority wants something now and releasing a beta with just the keyboard and mouse function would have sufficed. I mean look, everyone buying the cronusmax is only doing so to use their edge or xim3 product. If Obsiv released the keyboard and mouse function on the edge a while ago he would have been getting those articles written about him and the xim would have much more exposure at no cost.

In the end we all know the Xim4 will be the top product for K/M use and we will all end up purchasing.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 09:55 AM - 12/10/13

In the end we all know the Xim4 will be the top product for K/M use and we will all end up purchasing.

Which is what the XIM team are thinking - they want to focus on the long term and getting the XIM4 exactly right, rather than maximising revenue from the 'transition' period. At the end of the day Cronus aren't going to produce anything which matches XIM4 for performance and everyone who wants mouse support will buy an XIM4.

In the longer term there are really only two things which could damage XIM's position in the market. First, someone else brings out a competitor product which actually functions properly. Which seems to be a lot easier said than done. Secondly, Sony/ Microsoft and/or the game devs find a way to bring down the 'Banhammer' on XIM.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sgt8Bit on 10:03 AM - 12/10/13
That is exactly what you should have done day one. The Cronusmax will take away just the 15% that a nextgen Edge would have taken without the BT stuff. Both ways the 15% would have ended with a XIM4 purchase. The difference would have been you would not have sent a part of the community to the Chronus cash register. Indirectly supporting the competition is, well how should I say, a bit stupid.

You underestimate the urge of the people to play with KBAM.

+1
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 10:17 AM - 12/10/13
The loudest people on this forum concerning getting m+k on next-gen already have Edge. I'm not interested in short term sprints but rather the marathon. If you absolutely can't wait a couple weeks for something (i.e. XIM4-on-Edge), then there isn't much to say.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 10:24 AM - 12/10/13
The loudest people on this forum concerning getting m+k on next-gen already have Edge. I'm not interested in short term sprints but rather the marathon. If you absolutely can't wait a couple weeks for something (i.e. XIM4-on-Edge), then there isn't much to say.
+1
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zacharybinx34 on 10:36 AM - 12/10/13
The loudest people on this forum concerning getting m+k on next-gen already have Edge. I'm not interested in short term sprints but rather the marathon. If you absolutely can't wait a couple weeks for something (i.e. XIM4-on-Edge), then there isn't much to say.

I guess I'm not loud enouh =/

RAAAAWWWRRRR!!!!

How about now? I don't have an edge though =(
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: wunderdunce on 10:43 AM - 12/10/13
The loudest people on this forum concerning getting m+k on next-gen already have Edge. I'm not interested in short term sprints but rather the marathon. If you absolutely can't wait a couple weeks for something (i.e. XIM4-on-Edge), then there isn't much to say.

+2

(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/thumbs-aloft.gif)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sgt8Bit on 10:47 AM - 12/10/13
The loudest people on this forum concerning getting m+k on next-gen already have Edge. I'm not interested in short term sprints but rather the marathon. If you absolutely can't wait a couple weeks for something (i.e. XIM4-on-Edge), then there isn't much to say.

I mentioned this in another post, but if the community had an idea of the ETA for the beta, I think a lot of this Cronus hype would have been calmed down.  But because people have no idea when the beta was coming, they're like forget this...I'm buying a Cronus.

However, a lot has changed in the last 24 hours.  Obsiv has said he will provide an update by the end of this week and in the quote above, mentions XIM4 on Edge in a couple of weeks.  So it seems we now have an ETA or sorts....
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: willthetech on 11:05 AM - 12/10/13
The loudest people on this forum concerning getting m+k on next-gen already have Edge. I'm not interested in short term sprints but rather the marathon. If you absolutely can't wait a couple weeks for something (i.e. XIM4-on-Edge), then there isn't much to say.

To the loud people...
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g174/wilfredorivera1/54B23398-3090-4820-AE11-90FEBE9F445F.gif) (http://s56.photobucket.com/user/wilfredorivera1/media/54B23398-3090-4820-AE11-90FEBE9F445F.gif.html)

Lol
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: nobodyfamous on 11:10 AM - 12/10/13
im just playing on my ps3 untill, my ps4/xbox1 works with xim... not a big deal.... if he saids we cant support ps4 then ill return it and keep xb1, no biggie
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 11:11 AM - 12/10/13
The funny thing is also- some of the loudest guys, most probably dont even play fps games that much and just are too impatient. :)

@Obs- Ive stated it several times before- its not like there is that one amazing fps game out there that makes everyone want to get a XIM for next gen as soon as possible. All the preferences aside, most ppl will agree COD and BF need a big ammount of patching, at their current stage.

And the next thing is- its not like there are no alternatives. YOu can play cod on ps3/360 alternatively. Sure the graphics are worse. But youve played with these graphics for 6-7 years now, Im sure ppl will be able to wait another 2-3 months.

A greatness needs its time.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: kolo73 on 11:30 AM - 12/10/13
The technology of XIM is absolutely the best, and I like many look forward to future developments. In the meantime, I do not feel stupid to use cronusmax as an adapter to use my EDGE on my Xone.
OBsIV leaving for as long as necessary for a good development.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Atlasprime on 11:33 AM - 12/10/13
No amak1 it comes down to, we get to use the Edge and XIM3 through the competitor - ridiculous. Beta is not starting even if it could and competitors work is done- ridiculous. No ETA for the beta people buying the competitor - ridiculous.
I am 1000% with roads on this. Roads is not bashing Obsiv or what he has done at all but his criticism comes from a business standpoint. Look at all the attention and sales Cronus is getting. All of us here know that the xim is obviously the superior product but as a business if they are able to they should have avoided giving any sales opportunity to any competitors.

We know that the final product will be a polished unit but we are talking about the beta here. you guys are all saying you dont want an unfinished product but you are 1 in a few that are willing to wait. The vast majority wants something now and releasing a beta with just the keyboard and mouse function would have sufficed. I mean look, everyone buying the cronusmax is only doing so to use their edge or xim3 product. If Obsiv released the keyboard and mouse function on the edge a while ago he would have been getting those articles written about him and the xim would have much more exposure at no cost.

In the end we all know the Xim4 will be the top product for K/M use and we will all end up purchasing.

From a business standpoint it doesnt matter. Cronus and XIM have their own uses. Who is going to buy a cronus for maxaim? No one, we all know its inferior to ST. You cant stop them from mingling together though. That is just plain and simple fair business and it cant be avoided. Cronus could have released after the beta and all the XIM3 users would probably still buy it. I would have.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Atlasprime on 11:37 AM - 12/10/13
Anyways, I vote we ditch this thread. It has gone way off course and I am guilty of helping that fact. Bottom line from here on out.... Beta coming at an unknown time. Hopefully soon.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: riggidy on 12:12 PM - 12/10/13
The question is .... Is xim a business or community?  In other words, does xim just want to make a buck. 
Cronusmax is clearly a business...pump out a product and fix the bugs later.  I look at this type of product as something you would find in a flea market.  It will work but only until i can buy the real thing.  But....i still buy it.
 
If the edge would have been released again with the xbone firmware, would you have bought one?  I would have because i understand and respect the fact that people should not do things for free. 

Here's the problem with releasing a "beta"
Lets face it, if this was released many people would not order the final product.  This is the same group still posting in the xim, xim2, and xim3 forums. 

Xim4 will be awesome and i can't wait for its release But i have a ps4 and a xbone sitting here collecting dust.  The bottom line, i want to play and as of right this second, i only have one solution.
 

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PUBzZz on 12:33 PM - 12/10/13
As an Edge user who has an Xbox One I'm looking forward to the Beta. Going back to a controller for Call Of Duty sucks but it is what it is. I rather suffer for a few weeks while they basically give us Edge owners the XIM4 on our Edge in form of a beta.

Only question I have is this. Will I need to buy anything to get my edge to work on X1 after the beta is released? If so I would like to know so I can purchase it now and have it ready for when the beta drops.

Thanks again for all the work you guys do in making XIM the best it can be.

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sledge_Hammer on 12:35 PM - 12/10/13
Donít know why people are panicking about getting on to Ďnext gení, ok the graphics are better and there are more people playing but all I hear from those people is how many blue screens they get when playing games like BF4 thanks to the crappy Frostbite engine. Honestly if I had a PS4 with a working XIM adapter I wouldnít be all that excited, the only thing Iíd be looking forward to is gaming with fellow clan mates (only a few have a PS4 anyway). If you want amazing graphics, 64 players, full mouse and keyboard support right now then go and buy this amazing device called a PC.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: riggidy on 12:39 PM - 12/10/13
 I thought the xim4 was a whole new product, not a firmware update.  Am i wrong?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Thera6179 on 12:43 PM - 12/10/13
PATIENCE!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Atlasprime on 12:46 PM - 12/10/13
Donít know why people are panicking about getting on to Ďnext gení, ok the graphics are better and there are more people playing but all I hear from those people is how many blue screens they get when playing games like BF4 thanks to the crappy Frostbite engine. Honestly if I had a PS4 with a working XIM adapter I wouldnít be all that excited, the only thing Iíd be looking forward to is gaming with fellow clan mates (only a few have a PS4 anyway). If you want amazing graphics, 64 players, full mouse and keyboard support right now then go and buy this amazing device called a PC.

I have seen this argument a few times. Basically next-gen games arnt worth the time and effort at the moment. While I agree the titles are lame and unimpressive, all of my friends play CoD. Its the same rehashed crap time and time again but we toss the money in because it brings us together and we ultimately have fun. Sometimes it is not just about the game.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 01:06 PM - 12/10/13
I thought the xim4 was a whole new product, not a firmware update.  Am i wrong?

Both from what I understand.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zacharybinx34 on 01:27 PM - 12/10/13
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/12/10/xbox-one-gets-keyboard-ps4-controller-support-with-usb-device

oooo
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joker76 on 01:28 PM - 12/10/13
Only question I have is this. Will I need to buy anything to get my edge to work on X1 after the beta is released? If so I would like to know so I can purchase it now and have it ready for when the beta drops.

Yes, a USB Hub and Bluetooth Dongle will be required to 'upgrade' your Edge.

OBsIV has not yet announced which ones we will need to buy.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 01:33 PM - 12/10/13
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/12/10/xbox-one-gets-keyboard-ps4-controller-support-with-usb-device

oooo

what the heck man, those big sites need to stop reporting stuff like that ASAP.

But its crazy to see what big waves this news is causing. Eurogamer, now IGN... for real?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 01:36 PM - 12/10/13
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/12/10/xbox-one-gets-keyboard-ps4-controller-support-with-usb-device

oooo

Cronus on Xbox One done went viral. I expect IGN to make a YouTube video on this soon.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 01:37 PM - 12/10/13
Let me just say this, i feel like coming here to sell their device after blatantly  ripping off xim for some time really really lacks class on team xecuters part. Regardless if its different ppl running it I think its super tacky and I don't appreciate loose morals.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:40 PM - 12/10/13
Any word about the XIM4 or Edge beta? Lemme guess not a single word. There is only one guy playing with it after all. Those articles could have been about the XIM easily. So easily, itís a shame.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: metr0 on 01:42 PM - 12/10/13
Any word about the XIM4 or Edge beta? Lemme guess not a single word. There is only one guy playing with it after all. Those articles could have been about the XIM easily. So easily, itís a shame.

+1
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:48 PM - 12/10/13
And this thread shoes the complete fail of this nextgen transition. Xim users debating how to solve problems with the Chronus max to make the XIM work. Thatís what the users want and they dont get it from you so they take it elsewhere. Itís a full-face palm.

http://www.xim3.com/community/index.php?topic=29807.0;topicseen 
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joker76 on 01:48 PM - 12/10/13
Let me just say this, i feel like coming here to sell their device after blatantly  ripping off xim for some time really really lacks class on team xecuters part. Regardless if its different ppl running it I think its super tacky and I don't appreciate loose morals.

I feel like I'm salking you on 2 threads now!  :P

The Cronus dev first showed up here to try and help the XIM team work through some of the PS4 issues they were having. Then a XIM user posted a thread asking if Cronus would work as a passthrough device, to which the Cronus dev started replying and found a way to make it work.

While I agree that they shouldn't be allowed to market their product or post links to resellers, I don't think the intention was to steal sales from XIM or make people abandon ship.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Fade2Blak on 01:50 PM - 12/10/13
I think the only thing ObSiv has regrets about is actually offering a Beta for the Edge.  It was made to appease people that were yelling, now they are yelling even louder because they cant get it on their schedule.  Just let the team do their thing, I honestly think taking shots at them because they want to get it right is what is exactly making them hold it back for release.  I wouldnt blame him for a second if he didnt just retract the Beta and just put out a pre-order link.  Once the Beta hits the yellers are going to be yelling about how this or that doesnt work.  Its a no win for ObSiv no matter who he tries to please. 
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 02:05 PM - 12/10/13
The Cronus dev first showed up here to try and help the XIM team work through some of the PS4 issues they were having. Then a XIM user posted a thread asking if Cronus would work as a passthrough device, to which the Cronus dev started replying and found a way to make it work.

While I agree that they shouldn't be allowed to market their product or post links to resellers, I don't think the intention was to steal sales from XIM or make people abandon ship.

Agree, the guys doesnt come here to run campaigns for their product, but rather for technical aspects.

Even if their dev didnt come here, ppl would be talking about this device in the General Section, after all this viral stuff on Eurogamer and IGN and Polygon.

And ppl really should chill, the beta will come soon enough. You have hardcore users here ofcourse. The biggest majority of the xim customers dont even have a next gen console probably. Thats the pure truth. In my FL there are max. 3 guys playing on Xbox One.

Obs would have to cater to 1% of the hardcore users here who scream for a next gen device, whereas the vast majority of the customers still plays on old gen. Thats not to say that if he releases the next xim it will not sell good.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Rambos_BFF on 02:07 PM - 12/10/13
This thing is going viral. I wish Xim could have had some of this exposure.. but I'm sure it will hopefully be able to breach through all the noise.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: metr0 on 02:12 PM - 12/10/13
The Cronus dev first showed up here to try and help the XIM team work through some of the PS4 issues they were having. Then a XIM user posted a thread asking if Cronus would work as a passthrough device, to which the Cronus dev started replying and found a way to make it work.

While I agree that they shouldn't be allowed to market their product or post links to resellers, I don't think the intention was to steal sales from XIM or make people abandon ship.

Agree, the guys doesnt come here to run campaigns for their product, but rather for technical aspects.

Even if their dev didnt come here, ppl would be talking about this device in the General Section, after all this viral stuff on Eurogamer and IGN and Polygon.

And ppl really should chill, the beta will come soon enough. You have hardcore users here ofcourse. The biggest majority of the xim customers dont even have a next gen console probably. Thats the pure truth. In my FL there are max. 3 guys playing on Xbox One.

Obs would have to cater to 1% of the hardcore users here who scream for a next gen device, whereas the vast majority of the customers still plays on old gen. Thats not to say that if he releases the next xim it will not sell good.

Cronus sold out in one day, literally. In addition to that, all the free press cronus is getting it changes the game because now the words out there to ALL new gen owners not just xim users. ALOT of x1 owners are upset about older peripherals not being supported on x1 and now they have a solution.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 02:16 PM - 12/10/13
If Ob releases XIM4 it will need PS4 support to make good sales because I don't see people who just paid for CronusMax and are already using kb&m on Xbox One buying XIM4. I don't care who is a hardcore XIM fan talking all this "I love XIM it's my life" bs. With the attention Cronus is getting XIM has to come correct. And for anyone thinking I'm one of the "loud guys" I have a PS4 that I use with DS4 (1.7-1.8 kd BF4) and there is no confirmed progress to get kb&m support for it. I understand where roads and Ob is coming from but people just want to play it with kb&m. It's just that simple. I know it may sound stupid but I too wanted XIM team to have that spotlight Cronus has atm because I'm a XIM user 110%. If I can't use XIM with that game it gets no spins in my console.

@#$% am I talking about lol.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: metr0 on 02:28 PM - 12/10/13
If Ob releases XIM4 it will need PS4 support to make good sales because I don't see people who just paid for CronusMax and are already using kb&m on Xbox One buying XIM4. I don't care who is a hardcore XIM fan talking all this "I love XIM it's my life" bs. With the attention Cronus is getting XIM has to come correct. And for anyone thinking I'm one of the "loud guys" I have a PS4 that I use with DS4 (1.7-1.8 kd BF4) and there is no confirmed progress to get kb&m support for it. I understand where roads and Ob is coming from but people just want to play it with kb&m. It's just that simple. I know it may sound stupid but I too wanted XIM team to have that spotlight Cronus has atm because I'm a XIM user 110%. If I can't use XIM with that game it gets no spins in my console.

@#$% am I talking about lol.

i am a xbox one owner and i agree with you. Obsiv has to come back strong and the only way to do that at this point is to be the first with PS4 support, imo.
Title: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:33 PM - 12/10/13
Now lets see why did CM win the important sprint? They updated existing and still produced hardware and they gave the update for free. They did not earn a dime right? It was free and the device was already spread. Thats the fear Obsiv had with the Edge. Well the CM is sold out. That exactly would have happened to an Edge batch.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Fade2Blak on 02:35 PM - 12/10/13
I remember back when i was a child, Beta-max tapes hit the market and were going to change the world.  Media coverage everywhere, non stop.  Couple months later VHS hit the market and no one even remembers what a beta max tape looks like.  See where I am going here?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Atlasprime on 02:44 PM - 12/10/13
What do we even think CM won. The race for what? A working mouse and keyboard adapter? Are we just automatically assuming people are going to blindly buy this device. I for one like doing research on all the products on the table. In this scenario, I would learn of CM through IGN, and then wind up here and discover XIM is the superior KBM product. Will people just pull the trigger on CM? Sure. It esp nice to use old controllers.

We must also keep in mind the small community of KBM users there are to begin with. The majority of the scene is here at XIM or there at CM. I would argue more here in terms of people who really appreciate an accurate polished device. It's not like players are going to ditch their controllers. These are console fans, they like their controller so in my eyes CM is getting some attention but who really cares. A smart consumer will discover XIM through this press.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:53 PM - 12/10/13
What the price was? An article in about every important online gaming news + happy customers. We give a @#$% about the later but its still a small price nevertheless.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: riggidy on 03:31 PM - 12/10/13
Now lets see why did CM win the important sprint? They updated existing and still produced hardware and they gave the update for free. They did not earn a dime right? It was free and the device was already spread. Thats the fear Obsiv had with the Edge. Well the CM is sold out. That exactly would have happened to an Edge batch.


With all do respect, the edge was sold out for a reason.  If there were edge units available prior to the CM release i'll bet they'd be sold out now as well....hence the current ebay prices for an edge.  You need both units for a quality experience. 
The Xim team should put edge units on sale and ill bet they would fly off the shelves just as fast as the remaining CMs. 
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Leftfieldgenecide on 03:35 PM - 12/10/13
This thing is going viral. I wish Xim could have had some of this exposure.. but I'm sure it will hopefully be able to breach through all the noise.

xim is a big fish in a little pond, we will have our day, i have faith for one thing in the potential the xim team can create with there little box of tricks.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 04:05 PM - 12/10/13
This thing is going viral. I wish Xim could have had some of this exposure.. but I'm sure it will hopefully be able to breach through all the noise.

Hype is hype. Anyway the hype has portrayed cm as a hack, and sneaky. I'm not sure this is the kind of attention I would want brought to our community. There is the old saying "any press is good press" but I'm sure xim would rather be featured in the xbox official magazine again rather than be regarded as a cheat.

I mean I'm not sure honestly what to make of that hype.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 05:19 PM - 12/10/13
you guys may not like what roads said, but hes right
imagine the following scenario:

obsiv went live with the xim edge beta 1-2 weeks ago with just xbox compatibility but 2-3 smart translators for the big games
all the gaming portals would now cover xim material, they even would praise how well it works because of the smart translators
you cannot buy such advertise, not in that dimension!
all the big gaming portals covered it, ign, gamespot, kotaku, eurogamer, polygon,...
2-3 weeks later you could have still added those new xim4 features to the beta

of course it would create attention to the console manufactures, but what can they do?
the consoles cannot see the xim, all they do see is the controller



either way i cannot wait for the announcement obsiv if going to do this week
hopefully we get some impressions on what stuff is waiting for us, im sure it was worth the wait :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GnatRat on 05:26 PM - 12/10/13
My concern is now with the mainstream media talking about CM, what are the chances that Microsoft decides to button up the USB ports tighter than Sony on the PS4? As I see it, the CM device is geared towards the "modded" rapid fire controllers, script kiddies, and one button combos. You know people out there are going to be crying foul and cry to Microsoft to do something to block such devices.

Then again, I could be wrong...it is Microsoft I'm talking about.

Either way, I will patiently wait for Xim4E and then a Xim4.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 05:28 PM - 12/10/13
I just hope we hear something about PS4 support if not it's not worth the wait :(
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 05:34 PM - 12/10/13
Being first doesn't mean best. XIM has a reputation for the quality it produces. Keep in mind that there are other competitors out there too, for example, SplitFish, Tuact, Penguin. All of which will get press, just like XIM, when announcements are made. We have something unique and different in store. We could have put together a video days after X1 was released showing a mouse+keyboard on One. But, we are raising the bar, which is why our reveal is coming up.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 05:36 PM - 12/10/13
The loudest people on this forum concerning getting m+k on next-gen already have Edge. I'm not interested in short term sprints but rather the marathon. If you absolutely can't wait a couple weeks for something (i.e. XIM4-on-Edge), then there isn't much to say.

Odin I'm not saying that roads is 100 percent wrong, i totally see his point, but as of now I dont know how a super fast release wouldve compromised the final product, and i would love for there to be no compromises. Its very possible you know way more about the product than me though.

Again the hype about the cm is shrouded in a negative light... I'm not sure its what xim wants for its products knowing what I know from being around for a while. No macros, no modding of files, controller passthrough. Etc. Obsiv has gone through great lengths to not have his product received as a cheating device. These articles certainly paint the cm as a cheating device.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 05:42 PM - 12/10/13
But, we are raising the bar, which is why our reveal is coming up.

the forum when this will happen:
(and certainly me when PS4 support is live haha)

(http://i.imgur.com/bkDLh.gif)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 05:45 PM - 12/10/13
But, we are raising the bar, which is why our reveal is coming up.

the forum when this will happen:
(and certainly me when PS4 support is live haha)

(http://i.imgur.com/bkDLh.gif)

Any news at this point would get that reaction.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Rambos_BFF on 08:07 PM - 12/10/13
I'll cry a little bit when the announcement comes.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 09:13 PM - 12/10/13
It would be nice to know the Hub and Dongle so we can atleast be prepared for beta.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: nobodyfamous on 10:26 PM - 12/10/13
But, we are raising the bar, which is why our reveal is coming up.

the forum when this will happen:
(and certainly me when PS4 support is live haha)

(http://i.imgur.com/bkDLh.gif)

LMFAO
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 11:03 PM - 12/10/13
Now lets see why did CM win the important sprint? They updated existing and still produced hardware and they gave the update for free. They did not earn a dime right? It was free and the device was already spread. Thats the fear Obsiv had with the Edge. Well the CM is sold out. That exactly would have happened to an Edge batch.


With all do respect, the edge was sold out for a reason.  If there were edge units available prior to the CM release i'll bet they'd be sold out now as well....hence the current ebay prices for an edge.  You need both units for a quality experience. 
The Xim team should put edge units on sale and ill bet they would fly off the shelves just as fast as the remaining CMs. 

That is what I said to continue the Edge and sell it like warm brezels. And then sell the XIM4 again like warm brezels to the same people. A bad decision. A lot of bad decisions lately.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 11:19 PM - 12/10/13
Being first doesn't mean best. XIM has a reputation for the quality it produces. Keep in mind that there are other competitors out there too, for example, SplitFish, Tuact, Penguin. All of which will get press, just like XIM, when announcements are made. We have something unique and different in store. We could have put together a video days after X1 was released showing a mouse+keyboard on One. But, we are raising the bar, which is why our reveal is coming up.

Obsiv, we are not talking about the XIM4 reveal or Q1/2 release. We know it will be great. What really bothers me is you dont care enough about what the community wants. You talk about all new features that have to be in for the beta, you dont let them play with basic smart translation while you write the special features. You talk about a perfect product that has to be on the market, you dont let them play with basic translation. You want to sell more XIM4s, you dont let them play with the edge and basic translation. You dont want to make the XIM3 compatible you exclude the users from playing basic smart translation. You want to finish the Xbone as its easier for you, you exclude more than half of the community of playing basic translation. Those are all decisions that may seem correct to you but are against the community. Its not patience they dont have, they know you withhold something from them. That is why W11ce has to build a XIM2 like Teensy and people are buying the CM stores dry.

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 11:23 PM - 12/10/13
It would be nice to know the Hub and Dongle so we can atleast be prepared for beta.


No
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: CameronMC on 11:33 PM - 12/10/13
I bought a CronusMAX just to be able to use my XIM EDGE asap on the console but would prefer to have just been able to use my EDGE with an update.

Could have just given everyone that, then added features later on for beta to give us all a taste and then finally the XIM4 :P
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 11:36 PM - 12/10/13
roads, do you realize X1 was released only 2.5 weeks ago? CronusMax added support for X1 using their existing current-gen hardware with tech this is XIM2-derivative (yes, you still need a PC to use M+K). The community wants XIM on next-gen. Not only will you be getting that, but, a XIM4 beta to play with (that is not derivative whatsoever). That's a pretty great offer. So, I have to ask you, why is 2.5 weeks *too late* in your opinion (which is not, but, would still like to hear it).
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PUBzZz on 11:45 PM - 12/10/13
OBsIV, I know you have your reasons for how you are rolling the beta out. I personally don't mind waiting a bit longer to be able to use my edge on my Xbox one. 

Only questions I have is will I need anything special to hook my edge to my Xbox One?  I hear people mention a BT  dongle and a USB hub.

Thanks again for all you do OBsIV
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Fade2Blak on 11:56 PM - 12/10/13
roads, do you realize X1 was released only 2.5 weeks ago? CronusMax added support for X1 using their existing current-gen hardware with tech this is XIM2-derivative (yes, you still need a PC to use M+K). The community wants XIM on next-gen. Not only will you be getting that, but, a XIM4 beta to play with (that is not derivative whatsoever). That's a pretty great offer. So, I have to ask you, why is 2.5 weeks *too late* in your opinion (which is not, but, would still like to hear it).
   Let me get my popcorn ready, this is going to get good...lol
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 11:56 PM - 12/10/13
roads, do you realize X1 was released only 2.5 weeks ago? CronusMax added support for X1 using their existing current-gen hardware with tech this is XIM2-derivative (yes, you still need a PC to use M+K). The community wants XIM on next-gen. Not only will you be getting that, but, a XIM4 beta to play with (that is not derivative whatsoever). That's a pretty great offer. So, I have to ask you, why is 2.5 weeks *too late* in your opinion (which is not, but, would still like to hear it).

There is no date that is late, the question is what day would be possible to make the community play. That would have been possible on day two on the ONE. No one is complaining about the PS4, we know you have to wait for a third party controller. 

The main goal for you should be to make us XIM as fast as possible. Its much more important for the community than holding a XIM4 in hands.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 12:00 AM - 12/11/13
We *are* working as fast as possible. Both Orbital and I are on late through the night (just like we will be tonight) getting this going. Do you believe we are sitting around? We are working on something ambitious. Given the complexity of the product, it's expected.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: wunderdunce on 12:06 AM - 12/11/13
We *are* working as fast as possible. Both Orbital and I are on late through the night (just like we will be tonight) getting this going. Do you believe we are sitting around? We are working on something ambitious. Given the complexity of the product, it's expected.


Oh Yeah! I can't wait!!!

(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/my-body-is-ready1.gif)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:10 AM - 12/11/13
No Obs we know you do but its of small interest. The patient waking up from narcosis is not really interested if I was sweating through the 4 hour surgery and if things were suspence packed or boring. What I want to explain to you is you do a lot of things right but you need to give your community more thought.
More Community understanding would mean to build Edge batches and sell them and make the BT-less firmware available so people dont have to pay astronomic prices for a dead end device and sold out Chronus maxes.
You also need to inform us better. People are buying CMs as they dont know if the beta starts tomorrow or in three months as that is still not late after the ONE release.

I really dont get why you dont sell the Edge as you make the same profit as you will from the XIM4 and you would sell thousands and you could relax and even bring the XIM4 next christmas and noone would complain.

I really dont get that.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 12:17 AM - 12/11/13
We've had this discussion about XIM4-lite before. That hasn't changed. With next-gen there is a new next-gen platform. The only issue here is time, and, honestly, it hasn't been that long.

I will inform the community of the beta when I know when it is. There are a couple important parts that need to be completed first. Until then, it's only speculation. Those important parts can be completed tonight by Orbital. I have no idea, but, the fact is he is cranking.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:31 AM - 12/11/13
Yeah OK you not knowing is also some information. Ill stop this I hope you got the message nonetheless.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 12:40 AM - 12/11/13
Yes, I'm not withholding information here.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mikael on 12:45 AM - 12/11/13
lol , you guys crack me up , its coming roads
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 12:46 AM - 12/11/13
again...so is the beta only happening for Xbox One only?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 12:46 AM - 12/11/13
Sometimes I feel like roads *surely* must be just trolling.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 12:47 AM - 12/11/13
again...so is the beta only happening for Xbox One only?

Yes, after that's out, we will refocus on PS4.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:50 AM - 12/11/13
Sometimes I feel like roads *surely* must be just trolling.

I am not, I mean it.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: anony on 12:54 AM - 12/11/13
i say 2 months and xim4 will be out for both consoles
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: gibkeeg on 12:58 AM - 12/11/13
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thrustmaster-T80-Driveclub-Edition-Racing/dp/B00F9F047K

10 in stock.

"PS4 / PS3 sliding switch (for full compatibility of the USB Racing Wheel on PS3"
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: jmc on 01:05 AM - 12/11/13
I'm just as eager and excited for the XIM4 as everyone else here is.  I'm not going to sit here and complain about how long it is taking however.

As far as people going out and getting a ChronusMax adapter as a temporary solution because they simply cannot wait, it's totally their prerogative.  However, by the same token, OBsIV is entitled to decide when and how he would like to release his product.  Hasn't he earned that?

I actually appreciate OBsIV even more for NOT immediately trying to profiteer off some of us' apparent *incredible* dependence on his products. Instead, he's innovating and hopefully creating a polished, working product that lives up to the standards that XIM has created.

Some of us really need to think about what's made us feel so entitled?  Do we not all remember the first time each of us got our hands on a XIM, and it changed console gaming forever, for all of us...  Is that not enough to wait a little while for?  Good grief....
 
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: gibkeeg on 01:21 AM - 12/11/13
To be honest.  I love Battlefield 4. .I refuse to play FPS on computers, the PlayStation 4 version of Battlefield 4 for me is godsend, I absolutely love it.   2 weeks ago , I was getting absolutely destroyed on it with the controller.   I honestly would have paid 500 dollars any type of M&KB support.

It's just a bad combination.  Addiction to Battlefield/COD, complete lack of patience, and money to burn.    The funny part in all this "waiting", is I've become decent enough at the controller to see just how entitled and impatient I have been about the XIM.

Roads, I have a sneaking suspicion you're in the same boat.  Take a step back, the XIM guys will get this @#$% released, and it will be epic.  Hell, I'm on a PS4, I might be waiting for a very long time.   
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: gibkeeg on 01:25 AM - 12/11/13
Some of us really need to think about what's made us feel so entitled?  Do we not all remember the first time each of us got our hands on a XIM, and it changed console gaming forever, for all of us...  Is that not enough to wait a little while for?  Good grief....
 

Amen, I've seriously had to take a step back the last few days and realize how much I've been obsessing over this.  I think we have become so @#$% reliant on the xim, that playing without it feels like someone ran away with our prosthesis limb we needed to game, without it, we're crippled.   I was literally pissed off the xim wasn't available yet, 2 weeks after release of the ps4.    Now that I've settled down, I've worked hard everyday to become decent with controller.  Yes , I still really want the XIM, but I'm done obsessing about it.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 01:28 AM - 12/11/13
I am not, I mean it.

I think if I were you I probably would have just said I was trolling.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: wunderdunce on 01:31 AM - 12/11/13
I am not, I mean it.

I think if I were you I probably would have just said I was trolling.

(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/slow-lol-zoom.gif)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:33 AM - 12/11/13
The PS4 is the only thing that I fully understand its really a technical problem that has to be solved. Yes gibkeeg Iīm in the same boat. I have COD and BF4 unopened lying around for the bone.

I am not, I mean it.

I think if I were you I probably would have just said I was trolling.

Trolling would mean I intentionally want to piss him off but I am really trying to convince this stubborn man.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 01:37 AM - 12/11/13
Trolling would mean I intentionally want to piss him off but I am really trying to convince this stubborn man.

Pot, please meet my friend Kettle.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:38 AM - 12/11/13
I dont really get you but sure think what you want.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 01:40 AM - 12/11/13
He's trying to say you're just as stubborn as obsiv.  :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: gibkeeg on 01:42 AM - 12/11/13
Hi, my name is Gibkeeg and I'm a XIM addict. 

Your turn Roads ;)

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:43 AM - 12/11/13
Oh OK that might be yes, thanks for explaining.

Hi, my name is Gibkeeg and I'm a XIM addict. 

Your turn Roads ;)



Hi Gibkeep :D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: anony on 01:45 AM - 12/11/13
Roads was just as bad at the xim3 and edge release. Always stirring up obsiv  8)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 01:48 AM - 12/11/13
I'm amazed OBsIV hasn't put roads on ignore. I would have ages ago.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: CameronMC on 02:12 AM - 12/11/13
@OBsIV any chance you know if the BT adapter and/or usb hub is going to be needed for EDGE on Xbox One for the BETA? I'd rather save my money for XIM4 ;)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:30 AM - 12/11/13
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/gallery/no/jonah-hill-no.gif)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: wunderdunce on 02:44 AM - 12/11/13
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/que.gif)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 03:59 AM - 12/11/13
IF YOU CAN'T DO THE TIME DON'T DO THE CRIME.
Anyone who rushed out to buy a "next gen" console makes me laugh. This isn't the old days of sega/nintendo when consoles used to launch with must have games. Not since n64 days.
And now you moan about not having instant m&kb support straight away to play your broken buggy games
Hahahahahahahahahahaha.
Should of waited it out till xim4 was available.
Patience is a virtue
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: sputnik on 04:46 AM - 12/11/13
I've appreciated all roads posts.  The world needs people willing to risk disapproval to say what they feel needs to be said. Yes men are of no use in a developmental process like this.

Once again just want to say how impressed I am at the calibre of the discussions back in this RC section. Its unusual to come across a healthy constructive forum community!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 04:57 AM - 12/11/13
Those articles could have been about the XIM easily. So easily, itís a shame.

IGN. Eurogamer. NeoGaf.

as we all know the less publicity the less sales, and the less sales the better! the less sales, less word of mouth, and the less word of mouth the better!

why would XIM want to grow in recognition or make more money? let's be afraid of the MS/Sony boogey man that can't even detect a XIM or go against it in any legal way short of a unreasonable legal war, that's the best thing there is.

oh and as everyone knows the less XIMers the better so we can show off our 10,9KDR to our 12 year old friends.



PS: for those we some sort of issue figuring it out, above is sarcasm.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 05:02 AM - 12/11/13
Being first doesn't mean best. XIM has a reputation for the quality it produces. Keep in mind that there are other competitors out there too, for example, SplitFish, Tuact, Penguin. All of which will get press, just like XIM, when announcements are made. We have something unique and different in store. We could have put together a video days after X1 was released showing a mouse+keyboard on One. But, we are raising the bar, which is why our reveal is coming up.

i never saw any press for the majority of that. and the press on some is more negative than anything else. kotaku ran an article about a red dot vaccuum thingy that costed like 30-50 dollars and was made by chinese at 1-2 cents. it didn't work. it ruined expenmsive TVs. it made no sense what so ever. yet they made the article.. slow news days i guess, but no XIM article ever there. no penguin ever there, etc etc etc.

right now everything related to next gen has the potential to go viral easily. particularly if words like "first" go alongside..

in some time that won't be the case. so while being 1st has little meaning or relevance, getting that attention kinda does go a long way. it could/can even snowball....

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Rambos_BFF on 05:25 AM - 12/11/13
That cronusmax thread was a pure reflection of the majority of the xim's customer base desires.  People wanted to play with mouse and keyboard on the next gen asap and despite another company offering the solution a lot of people jumped on that opportunity.

I'm not sure if this was an oversight by the good xim makers or just a lack of care. I'm still not exactly sure why you couldn't have  provided basic mouse and keyboard usage for at least the edge until the xim4 was out. We all know now that could have been done almost immediately with the xbox1.

I understand the Xim4 is going to be extremely sexy, but not providing a mouse and keyboard solution in the meantime when its completely possible seems a bit silly.


Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: sputnik on 05:42 AM - 12/11/13
Wild guess here but im thinking perfectionism is to blame. All strengths have a down side. Whilst it will lead to developing a superior product, I think the idea of releasing something in the interim that's not a masterpiece,  even if its just a temporary band-aid solution, is unthinkable to  that mindset.


Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 06:14 AM - 12/11/13
That cronusmax thread was a pure reflection of the majority of the xim's customer base desires.  People wanted to play with mouse and keyboard on the next gen asap and despite another company offering the solution a lot of people jumped on that opportunity.

I'm not sure if this was an oversight by the good xim makers or just a lack of care. I'm still not exactly sure why you couldn't have  provided basic mouse and keyboard usage for at least the edge until the xim4 was out. We all know now that could have been done almost immediately with the xbox1.

I understand the Xim4 is going to be extremely sexy, but not providing a mouse and keyboard solution in the meantime when its completely possible seems a bit silly.




Yeah that Topic Obsiv does not want to be warmed up again. The time issue would not be present fluent income over sold Edge batches, time to perfection the XIM4. If the Edge is BT he can also take money for the STs if he desires and the room on that poor thing will be so small just everybody will buy a XIM4.
Whatever case closed, decisions are done.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: hung1981 on 06:28 AM - 12/11/13
argh
Title: Re: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 06:45 AM - 12/11/13
Some of us really need to think about what's made us feel so entitled?  Do we not all remember the first time each of us got our hands on a XIM, and it changed console gaming forever, for all of us...  Is that not enough to wait a little while for?  Good grief....
 

Amen, I've seriously had to take a step back the last few days and realize how much I've been obsessing over this.  I think we have become so @#$% reliant on the xim, that playing without it feels like someone ran away with our prosthesis limb we needed to game, without it, we're crippled.   I was literally pissed off the xim wasn't available yet, 2 weeks after release of the ps4.    Now that I've settled down, I've worked hard everyday to become decent with controller.  Yes , I still really want the XIM, but I'm done obsessing about it.

That's a good attitude to take, I've done the same with a little help.

The help being I'm on vacation (holiday) right now. Checking the forums every once in a while.

It'll happen when it happens.
Title: Re: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 06:50 AM - 12/11/13
roads, do you realize X1 was released only 2.5 weeks ago? CronusMax added support for X1 using their existing current-gen hardware with tech this is XIM2-derivative (yes, you still need a PC to use M+K). The community wants XIM on next-gen. Not only will you be getting that, but, a XIM4 beta to play with (that is not derivative whatsoever). That's a pretty great offer. So, I have to ask you, why is 2.5 weeks *too late* in your opinion (which is not, but, would still like to hear it).

I read back on your posts and you are honestly, one calm guy with a genuine niceness about you.

I would've dropped a temp ban on these crying clowns until beta or XIM4 released.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 07:00 AM - 12/11/13
I think all brownnoses should get some sort of XIM cap or badge or something.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Humble on 07:12 AM - 12/11/13
I think my comment in roads's signature still rings true.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 07:14 AM - 12/11/13
Yes it reminds me of my problem.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Pelican on 07:19 AM - 12/11/13
I'm amazed OBsIV hasn't put roads on ignore. I would have ages ago.
+1

Roads just @#$%. You stomp your feet and pound your fist alone here. No one else shares your anger or frustration. Get over yourself. I have a XIM3. I'm waiting patiently for the XIM4, because ObsIV isn't making the next XIM just for me. He's making it for all of us.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 07:21 AM - 12/11/13
obsiv dont miss out on this post


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thrustmaster-T80-Driveclub-Edition-Racing/dp/B00F9F047K

10 in stock.

"PS4 / PS3 sliding switch (for full compatibility of the USB Racing Wheel on PS3"
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 07:27 AM - 12/11/13
without roads none of you would get the joy of a xim edge beta, show some gratitude you ungrateful bummers! :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: bigmasta on 07:29 AM - 12/11/13
without roads none of you would get the joy of a xim edge beta, show some gratitude you ungrateful bummers! :)
+1 :D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 07:29 AM - 12/11/13
Quote
You stomp your feet and pound your fist alone here.

Not true I talk to others about this before making a call. For example my mom, dad, my brother in law.

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sgt8Bit on 07:44 AM - 12/11/13
without roads none of you would get the joy of a xim edge beta, show some gratitude you ungrateful bummers! :)

+1

At first I thought roads was just your run of the mill troll.  But as I started to follow his posts, I realized what he asks for sometimes is not unreasonable and I find myself in agreement with him most of the time.  The advantage roads has is he is such a long time contributor of the forums, that he has the respect of a lot of the community and of obsiv.

Keep up your passion roads!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: W11cE on 07:47 AM - 12/11/13
I approve his message. Im just not making any noise, because i prefer staying hidden, lurking and observing. And honestly i dont care about xbone support.

Keep up the loud message!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 07:53 AM - 12/11/13
Roads puts alot of emotion in his posts you should know :)

You need to subtract 50% of the emotional content in his posts and you will see the post how it was meant to be :D

@od1n- seeing that ppl can use their xim3s and edges on the Boner using the Cronus as the middlesman device, I think there would be alot of OUTCRY if Obs didnt add support for the Edge (even temporary).

I mean Ppl can use their xim3/edge on the boner right now for 50-60 dollars that a Cronus costs. Its the cheapest and most effective way ATM to use KBM on the boner. And soon on the PS4 as well, Im confident.

So its XIMtechs turn now for sure.

I mean lets be technical here, the more time goes by the more team XIM feeds the competition  ;) It is what it is. I mean those young kids who have to save pocket money to buy a KBM adapter- once they get their edges/xim3s working on the Boner/PS4 using the Cronus as the middlesman, why would they need to upgrade to the xim4?

Granted the xim4 might be optimized to the next gen versions Smart Translators a little more, but overall it will not be much different from the old consoles.

Just stating facts here...

XIM tech lost a ROOK and was given a CHECK. Now its their turn to strike back.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 08:00 AM - 12/11/13
Thanks for the support guys, thanks from my mom, dad and brother in law.
I still need enemies, I cant argue without enemies. You may contact Pelican via PM to enlist. He handles my enemies. He is a great guy. I have no ETA to my next campaign though. Itís a secret, I can just say mom, dad and me, we are working on it.

Thanks.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 08:02 AM - 12/11/13
roads is actually a lot more critical in the german section haha
everyone in here can be glad to experience the "calm" roads in the international section
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Chance on 08:34 AM - 12/11/13
roads is actually a lot more critical in the german section haha
everyone in here can be glad to experience the "calm" roads in the international section

Do we get "International roads"?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Bludwerk on 08:38 AM - 12/11/13
I've just been skimming over this entire thread at random over the past few weeks, and I have to say: while I would have liked the XIM team being given the praise they deserve by IGN and the like, I eagerly await OBsIV's announcement that could very well make CronusMax look like your run-of-the-mill flash drive. Every gaming media outlet is laser-focused on the PS4 and XBox One right now. If what OBsIV has in store for everyone is as revolutionary as the XIM3 was to the previous generation, XIM will have it's time in the spotlight. XIM has an amazing opportunity here with the PS4 and XBox One launch window. We're in the thick of the holiday season, hype for both systems is as high as ever, and XIM will get it's coverage in due time. It will be impossible to ignore.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: MaStErBiSh on 08:39 AM - 12/11/13
For those that are interested i am very impressed with the CornusMax working through the Xim Edge.
FYI make sure your Xbone charge cable is original, i was using a cheap one of ebay the controller worked fine but i couldnt get it to authacate, when out and got an original Xbone charge lead and it hooked up first time, having a blast on 64 player BF4
Here is a YouTube link on getting it setup

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDMEudq_lRs&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDMEudq_lRs&feature=youtu.be)



 
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 08:41 AM - 12/11/13
I'm amazed OBsIV hasn't put roads on ignore. I would have ages ago.
+1

Roads just @#$%. You stomp your feet and pound your fist alone here. No one else shares your anger or frustration. Get over yourself. I have a XIM3. I'm waiting patiently for the XIM4, because ObsIV isn't making the next XIM just for me. He's making it for all of us.

what exactly are you calling me? i share many of his viewpoints. i'm not even the only one but hey, i at least want to know what you consider me since i'm not included in the "no one else" group.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 08:41 AM - 12/11/13
Couple of things -

1. Roads is a Legend around here because he's the only one that can get this kind of responce out of the Elephant hided OBs.
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/1277151/hugh-laurie-s-baby-is-upset-o.gif)

2. Why is it that you guys want more exposure for XIM? Do you really think companies like Sony and M$ want to deal with all the crying that will take place if XIM support is allowed. Everytime someone got thier @#$% handed to them they would blame XIM. Then we're headed down a road of XIM gamers vs. XIM gamers and controller vs. controller which they will never support. The only thing exposure will bring is more time spent trying to keep us from using this product on thier systems. It's a dirty secret of sorts and the only truly justifiable means for it is for people with a handicap (I.E. can't hold a controller) to be able to play on console.

3. I'm assuming that which Dongle and USB Hub to recommend is still part of the hold up with the Beta as there has been any recommendation yet?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Bludwerk on 08:48 AM - 12/11/13
It's not necessarily that I want more exposure for XIM, it's the fact that exposure is inevitable. The original XIM was released years after the original PS3 and 360 launch window, and social media wasn't what it is today. As soon as OBsIV announces and/or releases a playable XIM4 platform, it will explode. If coverage is inevitable, it's only fair that the best product available be showcased.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 08:48 AM - 12/11/13
For those that are interested i am very impressed with the CornusMax working through the Xim Edge.
FYI make sure your Xbone charge cable is original, i was using a cheap one of ebay the controller worked fine but i couldnt get it to authacate, when out and got an original Xbone charge lead and it hooked up first time, having a blast on 64 player BF4
Here is a YouTube link on getting it setup

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDMEudq_lRs&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDMEudq_lRs&feature=youtu.be)

can you please explain to me how this is the thread that you deem appropriate to deliver that info?

and on that note, does it seem odd to you at all that you are indirectly advertising a competitors product in this forum? if you owned the XIM forum, how would you feel about your post?

i don't think youtube would let a video of my personal thoughts on your post to be online for long or i would give you the link.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Chance on 08:50 AM - 12/11/13
It's a dirty secret of sorts and the only truly justifiable means for it is for people with a handicap (I.E. can't hold a controller) to be able to play on console.

This.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 08:50 AM - 12/11/13
roads is actually a lot more critical in the german section haha
everyone in here can be glad to experience the "calm" roads in the international section

Do we get "International roads"?

yes ;)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 08:58 AM - 12/11/13
Quote
Xbox one sampling at 4ms 125Hz

@Obsiv- you told us that the PS4 controller communicates at 250Hz which means double the rate of the Boner.

I put my hopes in you that you utilize the 250Hz properly on your next xim and take full use of the doubled speed that the PS4 controller now offers.

Please dont just go 125Hz across both devices and optimize the ps4 input properly.

You are about greatness, so please show us greatness then :)

I will not stop bothering you untill we have proper 250Hz utilized in the next XIM for the PS4, just saying  ;D

So there you have it guys:

Boner controller - 125 Hz
ps4 controller - 250 Hz
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 09:00 AM - 12/11/13
2. Why is it that you guys want more exposure for XIM? Do you really think companies like Sony and M$ want to deal with all the crying that will take place if XIM support is allowed. Everytime someone got thier @#$% handed to them they would blame XIM. Then we're headed down a road of XIM gamers vs. XIM gamers and controller vs. controller which they will never support. The only thing exposure will bring is more time spent trying to keep us from using this product on thier systems. It's a dirty secret of sorts and the only truly justifiable means for it is for people with a handicap (I.E. can't hold a controller) to be able to play on console.

so you want to shove the elephants in the room under the rug?

1- what's preventing the media to get a XIM and cover it in articles anyway? you think that they haven't heard about it before? i can assure you many of the known reporters have.

2- Sony/MS can't do anything directly period. the only thing they can do is ban accounts of people that are appearing to use the XIM in recorded gameplay. that could have consequences a lot more dire for them than the outcry of the controller babies.

3- are you intentionally forcing me/us to be cliche? fine: "some people just want to watch the world burn". i don't give a fu*k if chaos ensues. this is a ridiculous predicament, FPS and shooters in general were not created to be played on analog sticks originally and it is ludicrous people that prefer superior means are being forced into inferior one's because of circumstantial reasons. if controller users think XIM is unfair then they just have to stop using controllers (implying that devs let us officially play with kb&m which they also should be forced to)

imagine you prefer to go to your work by car, but because a bunch of people prefer to go on foot you were forced to give up riding your car to work. would you feel that is fair? would that make any sense? NO, that is NOT how things work ANYWHERE ELSE except console gaming shooters.


oh and we can ride the XIM's accessibility for the handicapped/similar all the way to the ends of the universe. that alone is an argument powerful enough to defeat everything else against it. and that is reason enough also to get XIM as much exposure as possible.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 09:30 AM - 12/11/13
imagine you prefer to go to your work by car, but because a bunch of people prefer to go on foot you were forced to give up riding your car to work. would you feel that is fair?

Lol... which is exactly why they aren't going to allow you to bring your car to a walkathon. It isn't deemed fair.

I know, I know, are other peripheals fair you say? Are driving wheels and joysticks fair? Probably not, but the size of the Online gamer base for FPS's as compared to racing and fighters is ludicrous, hense alot more grumbling. Not to mention how competitive FPS's have become.

oh and we can ride the XIM's accessibility for the handicapped/similar all the way to the ends of the universe. that alone is an argument powerful enough to defeat everything else against it. and that is reason enough also to get XIM as much exposure as possible.

Agreed which is why I mentioned it, It's no secret that OBsIV is using this devise to help such individuals. However, it would be a shame if that was taken away because people that just prefer KB/M want to wage some kind of personal war.

You guys are right though in the sense that XIM is becoming more and more popular and eventually it will gain more attention from the big wigs. This may or may not be a GOOD thing!

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 09:58 AM - 12/11/13
Cronusmax dev thinks they are close for ps4 support .
If they get there first with ps4 as well it could mean both good and bad.
Good that someone's cracked the Bluetooth problem
Bad for team XIM
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 10:10 AM - 12/11/13
Cronusmax dev thinks they are close for ps4 support .
If they get there first with ps4 as well it could mean both good and bad.
Good that someone's cracked the Bluetooth problem
Bad for team XIM

Source?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 10:20 AM - 12/11/13
Cronusmax dev thinks they are close for ps4 support .
If they get there first with ps4 as well it could mean both good and bad.
Good that someone's cracked the Bluetooth problem
Bad for team XIM

Source?

It's already been said that it's just a matter of doing the work. The only real issue is how much lag will it cause. I don't blame you guys for trying to do whatever you need to do to have M/KB support. But let's be honest, when XIM releases PS4 support everyone here will jump on it because we know it will be the best, period.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: metr0 on 10:24 AM - 12/11/13
i dont think Obsiv is too worried if cronus gets ps4 support first. He said they have something very unique coming with xim4...dun dun dunnnnn
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 10:33 AM - 12/11/13
RML, sure may or may not. either way i'm willing to undertake some risks if it means getting the question to become relevant to devs. i'm rather annoyed by the stale status quo at the moment. the only way to get devs to listen is have a lot of talk about it going around and you are already thinking the easiest and most likely way to get that talk going... ride next gen's current status as a hot topic, controversy on the mouse on consoles dilemma  and top it off as painting anyone against the XIM as a "handicap-nazi" that needs to grow feels (LOL)

i think devs just want to avoid segregation. having un-necessarily fragmented userbases is bad..

Gerrila faced a similar problem with Move support for instance, where Move "servers" where empty. and mixing console players with PC will also cause all sorts of issues.. there's just no win situation among the obvious possibilities for ANYONE..


mark my words, nor Sony nor MS nor Devs will do anything about the whole debacle (unless for some reason things get to ridiculous proportions). there barely anything they can do even if they wanted to..
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: MaStErBiSh on 11:59 AM - 12/11/13
Quote
For those that are interested i am very impressed with the CornusMax working through the Xim Edge.
FYI make sure your Xbone charge cable is original, i was using a cheap one of ebay the controller worked fine but i couldnt get it to authacate, when out and got an original Xbone charge lead and it hooked up first time, having a blast on 64 player BF4
Here is a YouTube link on getting it setup

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDMEudq_lRs&feature=youtu.be

Quote
can you please explain to me how this is the thread that you deem appropriate to deliver that info?

If you go back 17 or so pages you will see why i have posted the above, this info was asked for by a few forum members because they are considering going down the same route until the beta is released.

While most of you are @#$% about this and that and mostly having a go at one another, some of us took a gamble thought outside the box and found an alternative work around, and it works good. This info is especially important for Xim3 owners who can now use it on the Xbone (PS4 Soon) instead of the feeling of been left out in the cold because of no official support with the Xim3 on the next gen consoles.

Xim 2, Xim3 and Xim Edge owner who has every right to post informative relevant information on these forums like the rest of you, oh i forgot soon be a Xim 4 owner too..

Forgot to add i'm in the UK, so what ever you paid for your Xim or Xim's we in the UK pay double..
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Loki on 12:04 PM - 12/11/13
To be honest.  I love Battlefield 4. .I refuse to play FPS on computers, the PlayStation 4 version of Battlefield 4 for me is godsend, I absolutely love it.   2 weeks ago , I was getting absolutely destroyed on it with the controller.   I honestly would have paid 500 dollars any type of M&KB support.

It's just a bad combination.  Addiction to Battlefield/COD, complete lack of patience, and money to burn.    The funny part in all this "waiting", is I've become decent enough at the controller to see just how entitled and impatient I have been about the XIM.

Roads, I have a sneaking suspicion you're in the same boat.  Take a step back, the XIM guys will get this @#$% released, and it will be epic.  Hell, I'm on a PS4, I might be waiting for a very long time.


+1, but I have the the X1 as well. Waiting is one of life's hardest chores to do, but in the end I know it will be worth it.  I am willing to pay whatever for this device, I have gotten much better with the controller but I am missing my nav + mouse combo.

OBsIV, please answer this for me,

1) being that Cron*** (don't even want to give them notice) is being labeled as an hack, the route that you are going is still USB pass through non-detection correct?

2) Will there be enough for launch?

3) Do you plan on having a pre-order page?
 Not sure of pricing, do a preorder of say $100 and once the price is revealed we pay the difference.
I would just make it lower than what you know for sure the final price is, that way you don't have to do a refund.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zenigame96 on 01:02 PM - 12/11/13
3) Do you plan on having a pre-order page?
 Not sure of pricing, do a preorder of say $100 and once the price is revealed we pay the difference.
I would just make it lower than what you know for sure the final price is, that way you don't have to do a refund.

I could be wrong but if I remember correctly, when XIM3 pre-orders/orders went live the first batch was at a raised price for some reason, and people purchasing them knew that (I was one of them) and were ok with it. We didn't get refunds and I know that I at least didn't ever even consider asking for one. So I don't think that would be too much of an issue for most of the community as long as it was communicated effectively :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 01:35 PM - 12/11/13
Why is everyone obsessing over who gets PS4 support first?

First of all, CronusMax is likely to be some hacky-solution that's patchable rather than a graceful passthrough like XIM team is working on. Second of all, it's not going to provide anywhere near the quality XIM does. What good is a mouse and keyboard if controlling with it is inaccurate garbage? Granted, COD might work ok since it worked fine on XIM1/XIM2, but other games like Killzone and Battlefield 4 will be unplayable garbage on that platform.

I think everyone is being way to impatient and panicky about this.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 01:39 PM - 12/11/13
If you go back 17 or so pages you will see why i have posted the above, this info was asked for by a few forum members because they are considering going down the same route until the beta is released.

Forgot to add i'm in the UK, so what ever you paid for your Xim or Xim's we in the UK pay double..

they made a few threads about it already. they posted that info quite a few times in them already too. i think they will enjoy your post more there, at least the youtube video i don't think anyone did one yet, so please post there.

also if you like the XIM so much and owned all and all, you should realise you are making free advertisement for a XIM competitor in the XIM forum, a XIM competitor that ripped off and stole part of the XIM's IP,forum info,etc. i'm not saying that's your intention or anything like that, or that it is forbidden or anything. just that there are threads made about what you are saying, let's try to keep it there instead of spreading it around in every thread.. i get that it was talked 17 pages ago or something but things happened between then and now, that is all i'm saying.

forgot to add i'm in Portugal, whatever you pay for your XIM's, we in PT pay more. oh and XIM3 owners were left out in the cold when PS3 was supported years ago, maybe that didn't affect you but i assure you it couldn't have affected me more.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 01:42 PM - 12/11/13
1) being that Cron*** (don't even want to give them notice) is being labeled as an hack, the route that you are going is still USB pass through non-detection correct?

2) Will there be enough for launch?

3) Do you plan on having a pre-order page?
 Not sure of pricing, do a preorder of say $100 and once the price is revealed we pay the difference.
I would just make it lower than what you know for sure the final price is, that way you don't have to do a refund.

1) USB passthrough or BT passthrough. either way undetectable is the plan. at least for USB it's a sure thing. comfirmed for Xbox, we'll see about USB for PS4 in the future IF that is possible.

2) and 3) there will be pre-orders.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Madrid on 01:52 PM - 12/11/13
Hi

I want my next xim as soon as possible, like everybody.
Now, i play COD with my edge in ps3, just above my ps4.
If i can i'll buy cm like adapter to my edge.
Xim's guys aren't my friends and the edge isn't my wife
But when the next xim release i'll give up all that i'd buy and i will follow xim
Because i want the Best gun for the Best shot
I only change my opinion if the next xim become a Good product, not the Best.
In three months nobody remember this post, we'll remember our next xim only
Which was the subjet of this post?
Patient and help giving usefull information plz
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 01:59 PM - 12/11/13
oi tio se quieres pudes ablar en espanol com algunos miembros del forum.
perdona mi malo espanol que soy portugues.

ira haber una Firmware beta para lo XIM Edge que permitirŠ el mismo funcionar en xbox one brevemente. lo plano es que tambien despues funcione en la PS4 pero eso esta demorado debido a uns problemas de comunicacion con la PS4. no demorara mucho para lo XIM4 o la beta de Edge suportar la PS4 despues dos tios de Cronus conseguirem lo mismo.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Alan on 06:08 PM - 12/11/13
This 'Xim Beta' I'm using is with XIM Edge and then there will be another box coming out called XIM4 which will be the true conversion???
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 07:31 PM - 12/11/13
Yes the beta will be on Edge and later a new device named XIM4 will be available.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: nobodyfamous on 09:05 PM - 12/11/13
Yes the beta will be on Edge and later a new device named XIM4 will be available.

mist,  do we need thje xbox360 wired controller for the xim4e beta, to work ?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 09:10 PM - 12/11/13
I know as much as you do at this point. They are still actively working on it.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: nobodyfamous on 09:34 PM - 12/11/13
I know as much as you do at this point. They are still actively working on it.

i hope not cause i traded in it with my xbox360 lol .. im sure i could find another one if need be ... or would my scuff gaming controller do the job ? it did before lol
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Fade2Blak on 10:52 PM - 12/11/13
I would imagine since it is for the One we would authenticate with the One controller.  I am sure the protocol changed from 360.  The 360 would be needed for 360.  Since it works on all platforms I am sure it will be controller specific for each.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 11:30 PM - 12/11/13
my guess is the same, i think you will need the Xbox One controller nbdyfms.. just a guess
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 11:40 PM - 12/11/13
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: The Pfhor on 04:03 AM - 12/12/13
Some of us really need to think about what's made us feel so entitled?  Do we not all remember the first time each of us got our hands on a XIM, and it changed console gaming forever, for all of us...  Is that not enough to wait a little while for?  Good grief....
 

Amen, I've seriously had to take a step back the last few days and realize how much I've been obsessing over this.  I think we have become so @#$% reliant on the xim, that playing without it feels like someone ran away with our prosthesis limb we needed to game, without it, we're crippled.   I was literally pissed off the xim wasn't available yet, 2 weeks after release of the ps4.    Now that I've settled down, I've worked hard everyday to become decent with controller.  Yes , I still really want the XIM, but I'm done obsessing about it.

That's a good attitude to take, I've done the same with a little help.

The help being I'm on vacation (holiday) right now. Checking the forums every once in a while.

It'll happen when it happens.

Haha I hear that guys. I am going on vacation next week, and while I initially was going to bring my PS4, I decided I'm just going to leave it behind and take a break. That will make the fiancť happier anyway.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 04:35 AM - 12/12/13
Quote
That will make the fiancť happier anyway.

Yes it gives you the chance she will get your wife :D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PUBzZz on 01:39 PM - 12/12/13
Now we wait for our savior the "Beta".......
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sgt8Bit on 02:22 PM - 12/12/13
Nothing much else to say at this point.  Everyone's just twiddling their thumbs waiting for the moment Obsiv fills us in on the beta.  He said he'd have an update by the end of this week...we are pretty much there.  Here's hoping we get some news soon....
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 02:26 PM - 12/12/13
week ends saturday does it not? i don't know what N.Americans normally refer to as the end of the week.. "weekend" seems kinda fitting for "by the end of the week"..
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PUBzZz on 02:31 PM - 12/12/13
In America we consider "end of the week" to be Friday in terms of "work".
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 02:36 PM - 12/12/13
In America we consider "end of the week" to be Friday in terms of "work".

seems legit. should be mostly the same internationally as that is true also for most of the EU..
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sgt8Bit on 03:53 PM - 12/12/13
Yeah, Friday was what I was eluding to (end of the work week).  Not sure if Orbital/Obsiv work weekends, so assumed we'll be hearing something by tomorrow (hopefully).

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mikael on 04:06 PM - 12/12/13
Wouldn't that be an awesome weekend?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zenigame96 on 05:20 PM - 12/12/13
Wouldn't that be an awesome weekend?

I don't see the beta happening this weekend. Making announcements/making something a reality are 2 different things. Even if the beta did go live this weekend, not everybody is going to be able to get the specific bluetooth adapter required at their local stores and will have to order online, in which case we'll have to wait for shipping anyway.

All the same I'm crossing my fingers for some more information tomorrow. Picked up CoD Ghosts for XBONE yesterday and got it all ready to go... Looks much better than the 360 version. :P
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Fade2Blak on 05:28 PM - 12/12/13
Unfortunately, BT adapter listings typically don't say what chipset they use so it's going to be a process of finding the right now. But, maybe the community can help with that one.

XIM4 has a Cambridge Silicon Radio (CSR) Bluetooth V2.1+EDR (Class 2) USB adapter.

CSR is the chipset. There should be very low-cost ones out there (i.e. <$5). Just need to verify them.
  This is the one I found that could be confirmed for version and chipset...its 14 dollars on Amazon  http://www.amazon.com/Cirago-Bluetooth-BTA3210-Class-Adapter/dp/tech-data/B000W4TZSC/ref=de_a_smtd (http://www.amazon.com/Cirago-Bluetooth-BTA3210-Class-Adapter/dp/tech-data/B000W4TZSC/ref=de_a_smtd)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 05:34 PM - 12/12/13
This is one of the few that tells you the chipset. There must be more that are cheaper too.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Fade2Blak on 05:39 PM - 12/12/13
Honestly I read the reviews and someone had it in there.  I prefer Amazon for the ease and the 4 star review that one has gotten.  If you confirm it is compatible I will order it tonight.  !4 dollars is a small piece of a larger pie.  I am sure others are cheaper but if this one will work I will just go that route.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 05:40 PM - 12/12/13
There is one that is about 4.54 shipped but doesn't offer prime. All of the prime adapters start at 9.99

CSR 2.1

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0032GO0FU/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A25BIGUW7MK12R
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Fade2Blak on 05:46 PM - 12/12/13
That one says it will only work with Vista, mist.   Have to pay extra to get Windows 7 support
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 05:52 PM - 12/12/13
Remember, this is what you plug into your Edge -- so all that matters is the spec of the BT chipset.

If you are configuring from a PC, then any BT is fine (including machines with BT already integrated).
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Fade2Blak on 05:55 PM - 12/12/13
is the 4 imbedded or will it require an adapter also?  Is this just used for the Edge beta?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PUBzZz on 06:13 PM - 12/12/13
OBsIV,


If configuring via PC that has built in BT then we wouldn't need the dongle? Am I correct in my understanding of that?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: izzy on 06:46 PM - 12/12/13
OBsIV,


If configuring via PC that has built in BT then we wouldn't need the dongle? Am I correct in my understanding of that?
Would like to know this too
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 07:06 PM - 12/12/13
Your Edge needs a BT adapter that matches the chipset of XIM4's. If your PC has BT, then, you are good on that side. Of course, your Android phones and tablets have BT already.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mindworm22 on 07:48 PM - 12/12/13
Of course, your Android phones and tablets have BT already.

Annnnnnd.........zing!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: nobodyfamous on 07:58 PM - 12/12/13
Your Edge needs a BT adapter that matches the chipset of XIM4's. If your PC has BT, then, you are good on that side. Of course, your Android phones and tablets have BT already.

so what does that mean to people who have no idea what ur talking about ?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 07:59 PM - 12/12/13
Of course, your Android phones and tablets have BT already.

Annnnnnd.........zing!

no iphone love?
(yeah i know why but still T.T)

(http://www.fastcodesign.com/multisite_files/codesign/imagecache/inline-large/post-inline/tumblr_lex3s2CgQN1qe0eclo1_r9_500.gif)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: menji on 08:04 PM - 12/12/13
Unfortunately, BT adapter listings typically don't say what chipset they use so it's going to be a process of finding the right now. But, maybe the community can help with that one.

XIM4 has a Cambridge Silicon Radio (CSR) Bluetooth V2.1+EDR (Class 2) USB adapter.

CSR is the chipset. There should be very low-cost ones out there (i.e. <$5). Just need to verify them.
  This is the one I found that could be confirmed for version and chipset...its 14 dollars on Amazon  http://www.amazon.com/Cirago-Bluetooth-BTA3210-Class-Adapter/dp/tech-data/B000W4TZSC/ref=de_a_smtd (http://www.amazon.com/Cirago-Bluetooth-BTA3210-Class-Adapter/dp/tech-data/B000W4TZSC/ref=de_a_smtd)

Is this dongle ok for beta?

edit: a amazon user reported that the chipset is a CSR. 

I ordered one.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 08:17 PM - 12/12/13
no iphone love?
(yeah i know why but still T.T)

I hope that's not true as that would be the one thing that would keep me from buying a XIM 4. I'm not buying some $100 Android POS just to configure the XIM 4.

No iOS support, I think, would be a pretty bad decision.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 08:21 PM - 12/12/13
Your Edge needs a BT adapter that matches the chipset of XIM4's. If your PC has BT, then, you are good on that side. Of course, your Android phones and tablets have BT already.

so what does that mean to people who have no idea what ur talking about ?

You need a bluetooth dongle that has a CSR (Cambridge Silicon Radio) chipset of at least version 2.1. This is for your Edge. You also need either a computer or a phone/tablet that has bluetooth.

Obsiv, should any CSR 2.1+ dongle work or is this something that you will pick up and add specific support for, like Edge's supported dongle.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: CameronMC on 08:36 PM - 12/12/13
It's Friday here in Australia already, bring on the news from the future! haha

@mist4fun are they expensive? I can't browse anything besides this web site for some reason atm :/
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 08:45 PM - 12/12/13
They will range from $5-15 shipped, if you have prime expect about $10. If you buy in store it looks like it will be about $20. However since you're in Australia I'll leave you to convert those numbers :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PUBzZz on 09:48 PM - 12/12/13
As for Dongles we want CSR but I see there is CSR bluecore2-ext and CSR bluecore4.rom. Guessing that has something to do with modifying the bluetooth device address.

Which of those two do we need or both would work?

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 09:53 PM - 12/12/13
I know Od1n -- Apple requires anyone who wants to use their Bluetooth radio for an application outside of their allowed scenarios (i.e. headsets, etc.) to pay into their MFI program and embed an Apple authentication chip in their device. Android, of course, doesn't do this -- and they are the most used mobile OS in the world by far which made the choice to target them first the right one.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 09:55 PM - 12/12/13
For BT adapters, lets compile a list in a new topic in this RC section that we believe fits the requirement and I'll buy the most promising ones and verify them.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 10:25 PM - 12/12/13
I know Od1n -- Apple requires anyone who wants to use their Bluetooth radio for an application outside of their allowed scenarios (i.e. headsets, etc.) to pay into their MFI program and embed an Apple authentication chip in their device. Android, of course, doesn't do this -- and they are the most used mobile OS in the world by far which made the choice to target them first the right one.

What are you doing that you couldn't use Bluetooth LE? Bluetooth LE has open APIs that anybody can use on an iOS device. No MFI licensing needed whatsoever.  I know this because I've written apps that support it.

The only reason Android is the "#1 most use mobile OS" is because it's free and thus on every piece of garbage device that costs $1.98 to sell to the MetroPCS market. The people buying cheapo Android devices (40%+ of which are still running a five year old OS) are not the people splurging $100 for a mouse and keyboard adapter. I'm sure a fair portion of the XIM population has Android, but supporting it only is absurd.

I get the Windows over Mac support, but supporting mobile but not iOS is crazy. I literally now won't buy a XIM because of it as you've just raised the price $100 to either buy an Android device or buy a Windows license to install it on a device with Bluetooth since I've kept a garbage old laptop running XP for the sole purpose of being able to configure my XIM.

Really, really disappointed. I guess I'm going to have to look at using the competitor's device to use Edge on Next gen now also. I get that you're a Windows guy, OBsIV, but you can't just keep dumping on Mac/Linux users. Using mobile-device based syncing with no support for iOS is certainly a bridge too far for me, and I'm guessing it will be for others.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 10:31 PM - 12/12/13
If there was another way of configuring the device like connecting it to pc would you still feel as strongly singlecoil?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: nobodyfamous on 10:37 PM - 12/12/13
For BT adapters, lets compile a list in a new topic in this RC section that we believe fits the requirement and I'll buy the most promising ones and verify them.

Now is this for ps4?

Cause xb1 is ready to go right?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 10:45 PM - 12/12/13
If there was another way of configuring the device like connecting it to pc would you still feel as strongly singlecoil?

I'd deal with it if I still had to do wired USB syncing, but OBsIV said in an earlier post there is no mored wired syncing at all. Thus, I'd have to either install Windows in a VM on my Mac (requires a license - $100+) or buy an Android device ($100+ for a total piece of crap). There's an absolute 0% chance of me giving a dime to Microsoft for their busted OS or buying a throwaway Android device just for XIM.

I could deal with it if there were Linux support over Bluetooth or Windows support over USB. Anything else, and as much as it sucks after being a XIM user for so long, I'll have no choice but to stop purchasing XIM products as I won't be able to use them.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 10:45 PM - 12/12/13
I know Od1n -- Apple requires anyone who wants to use their Bluetooth radio for an application outside of their allowed scenarios (i.e. headsets, etc.) to pay into their MFI program and embed an Apple authentication chip in their device. Android, of course, doesn't do this -- and they are the most used mobile OS in the world by far which made the choice to target them first the right one.

So two very important questions, will you embed an Apple authentication chip on the XIM4?
Will we be able to configure the Edge beta by PC if it has BT? Do you have a PC configuration software ready?
Me neither will buy an Android phone.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 10:47 PM - 12/12/13

So two very important questions, will you embed an Apple authentication chip on the XIM4?
Will we be able to configure the Edge beta by PC if it has BT? Do you have a PC configuration software ready?
Me neither will buy an Android phone.

He doesn't need to even buy a license. He just needs to be using a Bluetooth 4 chip that supports Bluetooth LE. iOS has open APIs for Bluetooth LE, just not for EDR.  No licensing or chip required for Bluetooth LE using the CoreBluetooth framework in iOS.

https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/NetworkingInternetWeb/Conceptual/CoreBluetooth_concepts/AboutCoreBluetooth/Introduction.html
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 10:49 PM - 12/12/13
I know Od1n -- Apple requires anyone who wants to use their Bluetooth radio for an application outside of their allowed scenarios (i.e. headsets, etc.) to pay into their MFI program and embed an Apple authentication chip in their device. Android, of course, doesn't do this -- and they are the most used mobile OS in the world by far which made the choice to target them first the right one.

What are you doing that you couldn't use Bluetooth LE? Bluetooth LE has open APIs that anybody can use on an iOS device. No MFI licensing needed whatsoever.  I know this because I've written apps that support it.

The only reason Android is the "#1 most use mobile OS" is because it's free and thus on every piece of garbage device that costs $1.98 to sell to the MetroPCS market. The people buying cheapo Android devices (40%+ of which are still running a five year old OS) are not the people splurging $100 for a mouse and keyboard adapter. I'm sure a fair portion of the XIM population has Android, but supporting it only is absurd.

I get the Windows over Mac support, but supporting mobile but not iOS is crazy. I literally now won't buy a XIM because of it as you've just raised the price $100 to either buy an Android device or buy a Windows license to install it on a device with Bluetooth since I've kept a garbage old laptop running XP for the sole purpose of being able to configure my XIM.

Really, really disappointed. I guess I'm going to have to look at using the competitor's device to use Edge on Next gen now also. I get that you're a Windows guy, OBsIV, but you can't just keep dumping on Mac/Linux users. Using mobile-device based syncing with no support for iOS is certainly a bridge too far for me, and I'm guessing it will be for others.

Im with singlecoil, very disappointed. Was my first thought too, no way there must be a licensed chip in there.
Will ask a dev that does a BT device over Iphone I was in contact with.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zenigame96 on 10:52 PM - 12/12/13
I know Od1n -- Apple requires anyone who wants to use their Bluetooth radio for an application outside of their allowed scenarios (i.e. headsets, etc.) to pay into their MFI program and embed an Apple authentication chip in their device. Android, of course, doesn't do this -- and they are the most used mobile OS in the world by far which made the choice to target them first the right one.

I'm with coil and roads on this... No iOS and no wired configuration combined is a really really bad move. I'll still try to find a work around but please obsiv don't screw people like that. I have faith in you.. :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 10:53 PM - 12/12/13
Obsiv you must do anything to support XIM on OSX. Its not only the Iphone its also the leading tablet. If its Blootooth LE we need then just do it. If there is a chip needed as your BT is outdated you want to use on the XIM4 then get the chips in there.

You must stop these decisions against the community.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 10:56 PM - 12/12/13
Quote
but please obsiv don't screw people like that.


I think I will raise Hell outside the RC section if OSX is not supported as it sounds you dont want to support it at all, not in the EDGE beta and not in the XIM4.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: bigmasta on 11:15 PM - 12/12/13
I'm a bit confused right now, the BT Adapter is for PS4 right? We don't need any extra adapter to run the Edge Beta for X1 correct?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: CameronMC on 11:18 PM - 12/12/13
I'm a bit confused right now, the BT Adapter is for PS4 right? We don't need any extra adapter to run the Edge Beta for X1 correct?

You need a BT Adapter for the EDGE and also a USB hub for the BETA! also a PC that has BT or an Android Smart Phone with BT.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 11:18 PM - 12/12/13
Yes, I'm not withholding information here.

Yes you are and as I said this is nothing better than a plain lie. There were hundreds of questions about the Edge and the XIM3 nextgen or not - information withheld and there was talk about OSX here also and you said nothing. Get back to the drawing board, really. Or just call you next device XIM ONE.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 11:26 PM - 12/12/13
Also, this is why the whole "Android is the biggest market share" thing is so absurdly flawed. The number is based solely upon "units of devices sold running the OS." So you're counting things like Kindles and Nooks and toasters and calculators running Android. Things that nobody is going to be using to do XIM configuration.

The real meaningful statistic is which OS actually gets *used* and the best metric for that is web use by mobile browser and or app downloads.

First, let's look at web traffic on mobile devices:
http://www.netmarketshare.com/

Notice which device family has the lion's share of the market. Now let's look at App downloads:
http://venturebeat.com/2013/07/31/android-in-app-downloads/

Android wins on this metric, but not "by far" no matter how you slice it.

So if you're looking at the "Android has 82% market share vs iOS' 12%" in terms of global install base, you're absolutely looking at the wrong numbers.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 11:29 PM - 12/12/13
Everyone, please clam down about iOS. I didn't say we aren't going to support it and we are still looking for the best options. Right now, we have an Android client. As for PC, it will *always* be supported and every XIM4 will ship with a BT adapter in the event that you don't have BT in your machine. You don't have to buy anything extra to configure XIM4.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 11:33 PM - 12/12/13
Everyone, please clam down about iOS. I didn't say we aren't going to support it and we are still looking for the best options. Right now, we have an Android client. As for PC, it will *always* be supported and every XIM4 will ship with a BT adapter in the event that you don't have BT in your machine. You don't have to buy anything extra to configure XIM4.

Man you get the worst out of me.


(http://cdn-static.zdnet.com/i/r/story/70/00/018463/2013-07-2322-05-26-396x204.jpg?hash=BQD1ZGNkZT&upscale=1)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 11:40 PM - 12/12/13
Yeah, man, I don't often agree with roads, but the blind fanboyism toward Windows and Android really gets my goat.  OS X is probably the easiest thing on the planet to support. You could either write a C++, Java or Objective-C client.  If you'd gone with Java you could have written one XIM Manager and had it support Windows, OS X, and Linux in one fell swoop. On iOS all we had to do was use the right Bluetooth chip instead of a 2.1 chip. While you haven't flat out said you don't plan to support iOS, your hardware stack pretty much answers the question.

You're one really smart dude OBsIV, but it's totally perplexing how you solve things like smart translators but punt on comparatively simple things like support for other mainstream OSes.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sgt8Bit on 11:45 PM - 12/12/13
I don't think it has anything to do with how hard it is to code.  It's more around the process of getting apple to support the app with Bluetooth, etc. 

Android does not have these limitations, so I can see why it was chosen first.  But let's not be hasty....as obsiv said,it's not out of the question....and there's always PC as another option....
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 11:47 PM - 12/12/13
I don't think it has anything to do with how hard it is to code.  It's more around the process of getting apple to support the app with Bluetooth, etc. 

Android does not have these limitations, so I can see why it was chosen first.  But let's not be hasty....as obsiv said,it's not out of the question....and there's always PC as another option....

For the third time: YOU DON'T HAVE TO GET APPLE TO SUPPORT ANYTHING.

You use a chip with Bluetooth 4.0 LE and then just use the CoreBluetooth framework. NO LICENSING. NO AUTHENTICATION CHIP. NOTHING SPECIAL FROM APPLE.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 11:48 PM - 12/12/13
There is no fanboyism here. Like everything we have limited resources. We had to start with a single mobile platform. The decision was correct to start with Android. The platform is open and, no matter what the chart says, is huge. If putting in a BT 4 radio is the right decision we will. But that needs to be weighed against everything else (including how, if any, affects the possibility of PS4 support). The same is true for the choice of Windows for desktop support.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 11:50 PM - 12/12/13
Last time I checked Apple was the biggest enterprise worldwide. They even surpass Exxon selling oil by selling hardware. That is the OS and iOS you are thinking not to support. Its ridiculous. Hell if itís a small diamond they want you to put in the XIM4 you do it. But as we heard singlecoil this is even not needed.



(http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/290-width/images/print-edition/20130921_FBC376.png)

Quote
and there's always PC as another option....

And let us OSX users boot to windows we dont use every time we want to configure the XIM4. This is far from user friendly. I am @#$% not the only one using OSX here.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 11:54 PM - 12/12/13
Yeah, I'll live with a wireless sync from my pc with the included XIM4 bluetooth dongle. But realize that means I'm now back to a XIM 1 or XIM 2 experience where I have to keep a laptop nearby if I want a screen. That *really* sucks. For me, that's a huge step backward in convenience to have a next gen XIM. I'll deal with it because I hate controller that much, but you're basically snubbing half-ish of your market.

I'll grant you that Android is huge and probably a larger marketshare (even when talking about meaningful numbers) than iOS, but again the comment that it's "by far" bigger comes across like a fanboy comment and/or demonstrates a lack of understanding of what that marketshare number really means. Either of which is bad and has thus created a situation where some-number-close-to-half of your users are going to be back to a XIM1/XIM2 scenario if they want a screen for XIM4. Which, that lends credence to the roads argument of why don't we just permanently patch Edge to have better firmware since all of the huge benefits you're touting of XIM4 are only there if you happen to be an Android user.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: CameronMC on 11:57 PM - 12/12/13
Why can't we have wired support for PC as well as the option of BT for Computer.
I've had no issues EVER connecting my EDGE to my computer for configuring etc. and honestly I'd prefer to use my computer than a phone so I'd prefer the BT on PC option over the Android.. because even though I have access to the wifes Samsung Galaxy S3 I just dislike using phones for typing or anything besides good old phone calls lol
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 12:00 AM - 12/13/13
roads, will you listen to yourself? You will never be happy. First, demanding next-gen support on Edge which is wired-PC or in-game screenless config only. Now I say XIM4 supports *wireless* PC config and *wireless* Android config and also screenless config all *without leaving the game*, and, now you are upset that you can't use OSX? Even though XIM4 is clearly a *superset* from Edge. What is the deal?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 12:03 AM - 12/13/13
Its gotta be challenging to have to support so many different devices....

I would not rush this product out.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:05 AM - 12/13/13
Limited recources is also a bad and poor excuse for being single platform since XIM1. Then do it one after the other. Just every peripheral Device that needs a PC to be configured or run, tries to get multiplatform for user convenience, that is clearly too much neglected at XIM tech, and reach more users. The XIM 4 would be the only device I need windows for. Just every other device for example my Leap motion, my Denon receiver, Skygolf BT receiver either have a OSX UI or they solve it via browser interface. Even M$ smartglass is on Iphone.

This, you can always buy a Windows licence or an android phone is simply not the way you deal with your customers. Its time you get nextgen in user support also Obsiv.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 12:09 AM - 12/13/13
coil, iOS will come, we just need to decide on the best way to support it. If I had something against iOS, why would I have chosen a UI platform that supports Windows, OSX, Android, and iOS? That was a conscious engineering decision. Now, if you had to make choice by staring with a single desktop and single mobile platform, I'd be surprised if you didn't make the same call I made.

roads, I don't have to explain anything to you. Sure, we will support it all and ship in 2015 because you aren't happy.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mindworm22 on 12:10 AM - 12/13/13
Roads - I respectfully disagree. 

He's not a gigantic corporation, and the hoops to jump through to get in the Apple ecosystem are far greater than what with Android.  It's really as simple as that.     



Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:11 AM - 12/13/13
roads, will you listen to yourself? You will never be happy. First, demanding next-gen support on Edge which is wired-PC or in-game screenless config only. Now I say XIM4 supports *wireless* PC config and *wireless* Android config and also screenless config all *without leaving the game*, and, now you are upset that you can't use OSX? Even though XIM4 is clearly a *superset* from Edge. What is the deal?

Yes I am listening to myself and yes I am upset if we cant use OSX and IOS. We were calm log enough about this one platformer Windows only thing you have. Its not contemporary.

The Edge wired nextgen I was asking for and the XIM4 are two completely different things. The Edge nextgen would have been allowed to be restricted in any way you desire. Itís a blind non live device I consider unfinished anyway. It was meant to be the entry product you could have earned money for your limited recourses meanwhile you chose to cap. Congrats to that. You have no money but choose to close down Edge production.
The XIM4 however has to do it all and leave no customer standing in the rain. So yes you have to make an OSX interface or browser based.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:15 AM - 12/13/13
Quote
roads, I don't have to explain anything to you. Sure, we will support it all and ship in 2015 because you aren't happy.

No need to be sarcastic, get your resources in line and learn to get your customers under the umbrella. Also stop withholding information like you did with the Edge and XIM3.

Make it browser configurable and you even can manage the XIM4 over the Bone, OSX, Linux, Android, IOS and crappness Windows.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 12:17 AM - 12/13/13
One other thing roads, do *not* (I mean do NOT) ever lecture me about how to architect software.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 12:19 AM - 12/13/13
coil, iOS will come, we just need to decide on the best way to support it. If I had something against iOS, why would I have chosen a UI platform that supports Windows, OSX, Android, and iOS? That was a conscious engineering decision. Now, if you had to make choice by staring with a single desktop and single mobile platform, I'd be surprised if you didn't make the same call I made.

I totally get where you're coming from, but my decision would have been different. I would have written a Java desktop client to solve universal PC-OS support and then a C++ core for the native mobile app. Google has the official NDK platform to utilize C++ code on Android and iOS also can hook into a C++ codebase pretty easily. Then you just write a very basic Java UI code layer for Android and an equally simple (like you can probably do it all in the visual interface in Xcode) Objective-C UI wrapper for iOS. Then you have one C++ application that is the meat and potatoes of everything that gets wrapped in some very simple Java and Objective-C solely for the presentation layer.

In that scenario there could have been nearly universal OS support and ongoing maintenance while still only writing, predominantly, one codebase for desktop and one codebase for mobile. May not be your comfort zone or what not, but, since you asked, that's how I would have gone about it.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Bludwerk on 12:25 AM - 12/13/13
Every second OBsIV spends explaining what will or will not be supported in the future is another second he's not able to polish what will eventually become the Beta release of XIM4 that we've all been waiting so anxiously for. I use OSX, and I have an iPhone. You bet I'm looking forward to OSX and iOS support in the future, but my God, forget the actual release, we're not even in Beta yet. The cart is so far in front of the horse my head is spinning.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:26 AM - 12/13/13
One other thing roads, do *not* (I mean do NOT) ever lecture me about how to architect software.

I am not lecturing you at all, I give my opinion and telling you what the users talk behind your back. They swallow just everything you throw at them but they are not happy with some decisions whatsoever the excuse is.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 12:28 AM - 12/13/13
the hoops to jump through to get in the Apple ecosystem are far greater than what with Android.  It's really as simple as that.     

As someone who writes iOS apps, I can assure you that's more myth than reality. You pay your $99 developer license and write an app. So long as that app doesn't violate prohibited uses or content and doesn't use any restricted APIs, it's just a matter of waiting around 7-10 days for Apple to approve it.

The only time I've had something get rejected was when it accidentally used a library that used a Restricted API. Otherwise, it's been just a matter of submitting the app and waiting a few days for it to show up on the app store.

It's not as open/fast as Android, but it's not the giant hassle that so many people make it out to be.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:29 AM - 12/13/13
Every second OBsIV spends explaining what will or will not be supported in the future is another second he's not able to polish what will eventually become the Beta release of XIM4 that we've all been waiting so anxiously for. I use OSX, and I have an iPhone. You bet I'm looking forward to OSX and iOS support in the future, but my God, forget the actual release, we're not even in Beta yet. The cart is so far in front of the horse my head is spinning.

Decisions are made right now that may not be possible to change later. They have to be discussed. As we are put in front of accomplished facts the tone is a bit more rough.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Fade2Blak on 12:31 AM - 12/13/13
Just boggles my mind that this man has been busting his @#$% with limited resources to get out a beta that he never really needed to release, came asking his community for help in finding compatible BT adapters, then gets lambasted because it doesnt support everything in the world right away.  I must say I for one am embarassed by the treatment he just got for trying to make all of us gamers a device we adore.  Some of you should really be ashamed.  BETA means implementing and installing as progression grows. He wants to cast his net in the pond with the most fish, for beta purposes, and a few of you are crucifying him.   Not cool at all.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 12:33 AM - 12/13/13
coil, that was a non-starter. The UI is the most complex piece. You all seem to have a limited expectation of the experience. A single experience (desktop and mobile) that does it all. Meaning, if you have mobile, you never go back to your PC. The UI needs to be rich, animated, fluid and identical between platforms. Multiple presentation frameworks doesn't meet that goal and certainly HTML is a non-starter.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Bludwerk on 12:37 AM - 12/13/13
I don't think the XIM team is willingly backing themselves into a corner. Anything can be undone, or changed. We're talking about support for a product that hasn't even entered Beta, and has no release date. Things like supporting every OS and every platform under the sun aren't, or at least shouldn't, be number one priority at this specific point in time. Later, sure! But right now, expect there to be holes where holes should be (what is and isn't supported during Beta is not indicative of what is and isn't supported at release). No sense in going back and forth so vehemently over something so simple (as illustrated by singlecoilpickup).
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Fade2Blak on 12:40 AM - 12/13/13
BTW, I need windows 98 and Blackberry support!!  GOML   (that was a joke)    Lighten up guys and lets just be happy and supportive,  I for one am excited that we are even at this point!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 12:42 AM - 12/13/13
Just boggles my mind that this man has been busting his @#$% with limited resources to get out a beta that he never really needed to release, came asking his community for help in finding compatible BT adapters, then gets lambasted because it doesnt support everything in the world right away.  I must say I for one am embarassed by the treatment he just got for trying to make all of us gamers a device we adore.  Some of you should really be ashamed.  BETA means implementing and installing as progression grows. He wants to cast his net in the pond with the most fish, for beta purposes, and a few of you are crucifying him.   Not cool at all.

This is one decision I find concerning so I'm calling it out before there's a final product in the hopes that there will be some consideration for the final product. If stuff just isn't beta, that's fine, but once you choose final hardware, like a Bluetooth chipset, you're stuck with it unless you release more hardware.

If I buy the XIM4 as it sounds right now and I go back to my laptop for a screen, so I'm back to a XIM 1 or XIM 2 experience. Meanwhile, I'm paying a price higher than an Edge for a XIM 4, getting less-than-Edge-level convenience and subsidizing cool new features only available to people who chose a different OS.

I could care less if there's ever  even a beta. I was expecting a 6-12 month wait for a next gen XIM, and I'm still fine with a wait like that. I just don't want to have a XIM4 that's essentially a XIM2++ for me. I *want* to give OBsIV money, so I'm making the concerns known. But what I'm not keen on is paying a price between Edge and XIM 3 to end up with something that's either just like an Edge to me (assuming I can use it away from the PC entirely) or that it's like a XIM 2 with smart translators since I have to sit around with my laptop (although wireless) in order to be able to use it.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 12:45 AM - 12/13/13
We all know how roads can be but he gets his point across and most of the points he argues are to the benefit of the product. Obviously OSX/IOS support would be awesome.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 12:46 AM - 12/13/13
coil, that was a non-starter. The UI is the most complex piece. You all seem to have a limited expectation of the experience. A single experience (desktop and mobile) that does it all. Meaning, if you have mobile, you never go back to your PC. The UI needs to be rich, animated, fluid and identical between platforms. Multiple presentation frameworks doesn't meet that goal and certainly HTML is a non-starter.

Yeah, if the UI is extremely complex then that makes sense, but most of the time my eyeballs are going to be on the game and not the XIM, so I don't think I would have minded if the UI wasn't go-nuts-for-donuts.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mindworm22 on 12:48 AM - 12/13/13
I'll just put this out there. 

A company as big as Sony doesn't have Gakai -- a gigantic purchase they made a few years back -- ready to go at launch for PS4.  Seriously.  A multi-million dollar purchase made for ONE REASON ALONE, wasn't ready to go at console launch date. 

It happens.  Things will come.  Roads, I love your thought processes often and your passion, but the blowtorch in this case isn't appropriate IMHO. 
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 12:51 AM - 12/13/13
Coil, trust me, I'm not going to ditch iOS -- that would be a poor business move. But, I'm not going to delay XIM4 to make it a supported platform at release -- which would be a poor business move. We will verify we can support it before hardware is manufactured, but, will ship later.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 12:52 AM - 12/13/13
I'll just put this out there. 

A company as big as Sony doesn't have Gakai -- a gigantic purchase they made a few years back -- ready to go at launch for PS4.  Seriously.  A multi-million dollar purchase made for ONE REASON ALONE, wasn't ready to go at console launch date. 

It happens.  Things will come.  Roads, I love your thought processes often and your passion, but the blowtorch in this case isn't appropriate IMHO. 

But Gaikai streaming is a nice-to-have. This whole wireless config/mobile thing appears to be the poster feature of XIM4. Period, and from what it sounds like is that if I buy a launch XIM4 then I'm asking for a XIM2-level experience since I have to keep the laptop around, meanwhile paying a greater price than the Edge.

A more accurate comparison is if the PS4 launched and only supported certain brands of television. XIM4 is a somewhat crippled product for me without iOS support since the *main* feature of XIM4 as touted thus far is wireless mobile config and syncing, while I'm going to back in the good(?) old days of PC-based everything.

So, anyway, I guess at this point I'm just going to wait and see if iOS support comes and buy it if and when that happens. I would have been a day one XIM4 purchase, but I just can't risk, possibly permanently, going back to the XIM2 experience at a higher-than-Edge price point.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Fade2Blak on 12:53 AM - 12/13/13
Back to topic, Is the chipset in the XIM4 only 2.4ghz and do you foresee any interference issues if we go completely wireless for gaming?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 12:57 AM - 12/13/13
Back to topic, Is the chipset in the XIM4 only 2.4ghz and do you foresee any interference issues if we go completely wireless for gaming?

Something to let us know during the beta. :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: CameronMC on 12:59 AM - 12/13/13
@OBsIV Sorry to ask again but I haven't had an answer from anybody on this, and I've asked a few times.. Since the EDGE already supports and currently uses WIRED Connection why can't we have this during the BETA and why is it only BT Only?

I don't know anything hardware or software specific about your product so excuse me if I'm incorrect but since it's already using this method now on EDGE and supports it, wouldn't it be easy to just add to the BETA for the people who don't care/want wireless support I.E the people who bought the CronusMAX just for this reason!

Or is the pure reason because the BETA is meant to be just like XIM4?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 01:07 AM - 12/13/13
Yes, the Beta is about XIM4. I'm curious, why wouldn't you want to have a "SmartGlass" type of experience? I think you said you had an S3?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 01:11 AM - 12/13/13
If I can say one thing from all the stuff we've just learned, you guys are selling xim short on how awesome this is going to be. Xim will truly be ng. You guys underestimate the relevance these details make to couch gamers/casuals like me... just like saying xim edge is a brick... ps3 support was @#$4 huge for god sakes roads.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 01:20 AM - 12/13/13
If I can say one thing from all the stuff we've just learned, you guys are selling xim short on how awesome this is going to be. Xim will truly be ng. You guys underestimate the relevance these details make to couch gamers/casuals like me... just like saying xim edge is a brick... ps3 support was @#$4 huge for god sakes roads.

I, for one, don't underestimate any of that. Quite the opposite, I'm just disappointed because none those awesome things apply to me, at least in the near future of XIM4, since apparently I chose the "wrong" mobile OS.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: CameronMC on 01:22 AM - 12/13/13
@OBsIV I think that a SmartGlass type of experience would be awesome, but the S3 is my girls ;) and I know I wouldn't need the phone to configure 24/7 but there is always a chance she isn't home and I could require that.

Myself I own a real old Nokia phone that doesn't even have a color screen hahaha I doubt could be used for this experience, so I'd love the option of wired in that slight chance maybe? and the main reason I ask this is because it's not something you would have to struggle to support seeing as how the EDGE already supports it? (Btw again just guessing)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 01:26 AM - 12/13/13
Couch is important and something XIM4 is going to push hard. Which is why I'm very excited to see what I can do with the Steam Controller. Paired with smart translators, I can see a path to something great. Surface-free couch gaming with full wireless mobile config.

Cameron, wired is not a goal because your PC can just as easily do wireless. Even better you will be able to have full config capability while in-game. Its an excellent way to interact with your XIM.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: CameronMC on 01:35 AM - 12/13/13
That's understandable and I'm sure will be amazing, I know my PC can do wireless if I purchase something.. but I guess I'm one of those who would have just been happy with a firmware update purchase for WIRED next-gen. Maybe half being a cheapskate on buying the BT Adapter for my PC and the other being that I would rather have paid for WIRED Next-Gen BETA Firmware because it would be a lot faster to download and update than waiting for a BT Adapter in the mail.

Living in the country/woods sucks, can't just go to a computer store for these adapters.. Because there is like one general store in my whole town hahaha
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 01:40 AM - 12/13/13
XIM4 will ship with a BT adapter in the event that your PC doesn't have BT. For the Beta, yes, you'll need to pick up additional hardware to participate.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: CameronMC on 01:42 AM - 12/13/13
Thanks for the clarification and that's even better ;) tell us more about your vision with the Steam Controller?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: slackchain on 01:48 AM - 12/13/13
I like where the XIM4 is headed. Will input lag change or be different with different devices/phones. I'm not a couch gamer, but like the idea of it. Can you just clarify that there will not be additional lag for FPS games.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:53 AM - 12/13/13
Obsiv please make your softwares and device crossplatform. This hello group A, I am sorry for group B is a very very bad choice. It is easily possible and just every Device I use accomplishes it as lowest basic feature. Te XIM4 would be the only device I would need to boot windows for and I have enough peripherals here flying to the moon and back.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: slackchain on 01:58 AM - 12/13/13
Roads>
Give the man break! He will be supporting what you need, just probably not as soon as you will like. I don't think begging will help you at this point.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 01:58 AM - 12/13/13
Thanks for the clarification and that's even better ;) tell us more about your vision with the Steam Controller?

Consoles are primarily living room devices. You can game from your couch (where I prefer to be personally) with XIM, but, it requires a mouse surface. I've always wanted a surface free couch solution and felt that touchpads were the best way to achieve that. I was thrilled to see the Steam Controller announcement and feel that it could be the way to reach that large gamer community that would see the value of mouse-like aiming without a mouse from the couch. I'm personally really excited about that. And, XIMs Smart Translators will make that possible since any divergence from 1-to-1 aiming would feel much worse on a device like the Steam Controller.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 02:01 AM - 12/13/13
There will not be additional lag. XIM4 will continue to have a direct minimal latency connection to your console. The communication between XIM4 and XIM4Manager is very light weight and also lower priority than translation processing -- the processor guarantees that.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 02:04 AM - 12/13/13
roads, it is cross platform and will support more platforms as quickly as possible. iOS obviously is the next in line.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: bigmasta on 02:05 AM - 12/13/13
...For the Beta, yes, you'll need to pick up additional hardware to participate.
And you will inform us soon enough what kind of hardware we need so we can buy it to be ready when beta starts right? :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 02:07 AM - 12/13/13
Of course! It'll be minimal.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: slackchain on 02:07 AM - 12/13/13
Thank you for clarifying that ObsIV. I'm sure you have stressed over many discussions. May be Roads will not give you grey hair before this is all over.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GuNStArHeRo on 02:31 AM - 12/13/13
didn't feel like backtracking a few pages back but was a beta release date announced?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: willthetech on 02:42 AM - 12/13/13
There will not be additional lag. XIM4 will continue to have a direct minimal latency connection to your console. The communication between XIM4 and XIM4Manager is very light weight and also lower priority than translation processing -- the processor guarantees that.

WOW a lot of info in the last 6 hours...No iOS support on release is a downer, but knowing that you are going to work on getting it is enough for me. ( i have a couple of crappie android  tablets around). I see the PS4 topic was avoided on all your conversations...So I am thinking that will also be a no available feature on release?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: lh82p on 02:52 AM - 12/13/13
@Obisv

The Xim4 will definitely support also PS4?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Neildo on 03:32 AM - 12/13/13
@Obisv

The Xim4 will definitely support also PS4?

Same question !!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: THE-MARAVINGY on 03:33 AM - 12/13/13
Its all got a bit heated in here.

Not sure if have missed something but when will PS4 be supported as i am awaiting and holding back on purchasing the PS4 until there is support.

I tried the controllers in store and both Xbox 1 and PS4 controllers are very uncomfortable for me, anyone else noticed this i do have unusually large hands long fingers and thumbs so they just feel wrong in my hands seems like they both made them for little kids instead of big kids lol.

I do have a bluetooth pc though as i sit at my desk to play all my games be it PS or PC so i take it i am ok in that department.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 03:43 AM - 12/13/13
Couch is important and something XIM4 is going to push hard. Which is why I'm very excited to see what I can do with the Steam Controller. Paired with smart translators, I can see a path to something great. Surface-free couch gaming with full wireless mobile config.

Cameron, wired is not a goal because your PC can just as easily do wireless. Even better you will be able to have full config capability while in-game. Its an excellent way to interact with your XIM.

if you want surface free couch gaming another thing you should support once XIM4 is launched is STEM from Sixence.

you can make a translation for it as that will set you apart from everything on the market. the thing is the most precise and lagfree device ever created to game and is far superior from what airmice could ever dream of since you get 3D positional tracking.

the only downside is using it is tireing and therefor not the main way to game for most, but has an alternative a an added feature you would bring a all new experience that is unique to PC for consoles and further embrance the handicapped with a widely accessible device.

people that enjoy the arcade and the live firing experience would go nuts over it.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 03:45 AM - 12/13/13
XIM4 will ship with a BT adapter in the event that your PC doesn't have BT. For the Beta, yes, you'll need to pick up additional hardware to participate.

i hope you mean optionally. having both an android phone, tablet and win7/linux PC all with BT radios i don't want to pay more for XIM4 to get something i don't need. just want the XIM4 with its inbuilt BT.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joey McCamper on 04:05 AM - 12/13/13
iOS support would be neat. If you need any help testing the app please let us know. I have an old android phone, but like mentioned above, iOS support is very important. Guess XIM4 will take a couple of months, but I'm sure the finished product will be worth it.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 07:49 AM - 12/13/13
I can care less about iOS support. Someone earlier said something about leaving out half their customers lol that's a BS stat.

I don't care how many charts roads and coil put up. OBsIV made the smart choice of what it's going to support first.

I'm sure he'll get to your iOS stuff down the road (no pun intended).
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joey McCamper on 08:03 AM - 12/13/13
Why not use wifi and a web app? The web app would uniquely identity your XIM that connects to the network or through the serial number. Just thinking out loud. Don't mind me.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 08:12 AM - 12/13/13
Its not about IOS really, its about crossplatform support. The standard in Industry if you dont want to exclude your product from is Webbrowser, iPhoneģ, iPadģ, Androidģ. That just covers everyone. If it would be Iphone only I would ask for Android even if I dont use it. Its not about limited resources. If you go handheld itís the three above or you dont do it at all. If its PC its Windows Mac and Linux. As most dont want to make several clients as Singlecoil told us, most make webbrowser configuration and you can access it by just anything that can browse. Asking people to reboot into another OS or buy another mobile phone is just not acceptable. 
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sledge_Hammer on 08:38 AM - 12/13/13
Canít beat a bit of Ďpretentious Apple elitist rageí, the last few pages have been most entertaining. If complaining was a career path you guys would be millionaires by now. Always with the negative waves guys, always with the negative waves.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: tuffrabit on 08:46 AM - 12/13/13
Sigh, the crying over ios.  You people have no idea the complexities involved with true cross platform software.  The complexities are enough to give large dev teams pause, this I know from personal experience.  OBsIV and crew are not a large team, and there are other highly complex features they are focusing on.

Also, $100+ for a throw away Android device?  For real?  Just stop making a bigger fuss than is necessary.  You can get a bottom of the barrel droid phone or tablet for under $50.  Probably under $30 if you look hard enough.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 08:47 AM - 12/13/13
roads, it is cross platform and will support more platforms as quickly as possible. iOS obviously is the next in line.

thanks for the infos

just sucks for me that PS4 and iOS arent top priority because they are harder to realize
but at least i know now that they wont be dropped but worked on on a later date
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zacharybinx34 on 09:26 AM - 12/13/13
Its not about IOS really, its about crossplatform support. The standard in Industry if you dont want to exclude your product from is Webbrowser, iPhoneģ, iPadģ, Androidģ. That just covers everyone. If it would be Iphone only I would ask for Android even if I dont use it. Its not about limited resources. If you go handheld itís the three above or you dont do it at all. If its PC its Windows Mac and Linux. As most dont want to make several clients as Singlecoil told us, most make webbrowser configuration and you can access it by just anything that can browse. Asking people to reboot into another OS or buy another mobile phone is just not acceptable. 


rofl...

ohhh Roads... just always complaining about sillyness.


Even if I had IOS and not Android I would tell OBsIV to release it with IOS and add Android as soon as he has the time.


XIM4 needs to come out soon, don't delay it for something like this.


Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zenigame96 on 09:28 AM - 12/13/13
roads, it is cross platform and will support more platforms as quickly as possible. iOS obviously is the next in line.

thanks for the infos

just sucks for me that PS4 and iOS arent top priority because they are harder to realize
but at least i know now that they wont be dropped but worked on on a later date

This is good enough for me as well. Thank you Obsiv.

And to everybody saying that the people asking for iOS were whining, crying, complaining, blah blah blah, what roads said is accurate. Cross platform support is important. Obsiv's decision to support Android first is a *good* business move. My only concern before was that it almost sounded like iOS may not get support at all, and there was also a post back there that mentioned no wired configuration, which would have effectively locked me out of purchasing the device...unless I could somehow convince my windows partition on my mac to play nice with the bluetooth (yeah, right.)

Considering that I've owned XIM2, XIM3, and XIME, and purchased many of the latter 2 as gifts for friends/co-workers/family, I'd be really sad to not be able to get on board with XIM4. Glad that's not going to be the case. :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zacharybinx34 on 09:47 AM - 12/13/13
roads, it is cross platform and will support more platforms as quickly as possible. iOS obviously is the next in line.

thanks for the infos

just sucks for me that PS4 and iOS arent top priority because they are harder to realize
but at least i know now that they wont be dropped but worked on on a later date

This is good enough for me as well. Thank you Obsiv.

And to everybody saying that the people asking for iOS were whining, crying, complaining, blah blah blah, what roads said is accurate. Cross platform support is important. Obsiv's decision to support Android first is a *good* business move. My only concern before was that it almost sounded like iOS may not get support at all, and there was also a post back there that mentioned no wired configuration, which would have effectively locked me out of purchasing the device...unless I could somehow convince my windows partition on my mac to play nice with the bluetooth (yeah, right.)

Considering that I've owned XIM2, XIM3, and XIME, and purchased many of the latter 2 as gifts for friends/co-workers/family, I'd be really sad to not be able to get on board with XIM4. Glad that's not going to be the case. :)

Does anyone honestly think OBsIV would do something as silly as to not add IOS support....?

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 09:53 AM - 12/13/13
So is xim4 truly wireless?
Has it got an rf as well as Bluetooth.
Strange that u seem to be going with android first. iOS certainly has a much larger user base especially in the UK.
I Know 2 people with android phones. Everyone else rocks apple products.
Another blow to XIM.
Without iOS support the "cool kids" won't wanna play lol.
I also DON'T WANT A BLUETOOTH ADAPTER PACKAGED WITH XIM4 , don't need it don't want it.
So lets get this straight
No ps4 support and no configuration over iOS hmmmmmmm this product sounds better all the time.
.......walks away angrily then punches small random child in the head.....NAPPA OUT
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 09:54 AM - 12/13/13
roads, it is cross platform and will support more platforms as quickly as possible. iOS obviously is the next in line.

thanks for the infos

just sucks for me that PS4 and iOS arent top priority because they are harder to realize
but at least i know now that they wont be dropped but worked on on a later date

This is good enough for me as well. Thank you Obsiv.

And to everybody saying that the people asking for iOS were whining, crying, complaining, blah blah blah, what roads said is accurate. Cross platform support is important. Obsiv's decision to support Android first is a *good* business move. My only concern before was that it almost sounded like iOS may not get support at all, and there was also a post back there that mentioned no wired configuration, which would have effectively locked me out of purchasing the device...unless I could somehow convince my windows partition on my mac to play nice with the bluetooth (yeah, right.)

Considering that I've owned XIM2, XIM3, and XIME, and purchased many of the latter 2 as gifts for friends/co-workers/family, I'd be really sad to not be able to get on board with XIM4. Glad that's not going to be the case. :)

Does anyone honestly think OBsIV would do something as silly as to not add IOS support....?



Yes, any other questions?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 09:57 AM - 12/13/13
I can care less about iOS support. Someone earlier said something about leaving out half their customers lol that's a BS stat.

I don't care how many charts roads and coil put up. OBsIV made the smart choice of what it's going to support first.

I'm sure he'll get to your iOS stuff down the road (no pun intended).

But it is cutting out about half of your market. iOS support isn't a luxury. It's a basic necessity to use the device for those of us who do not prefer Android. The core offering of XIM4 is the wireless config and mobile device screen and that's only available to a subset of existing users. Even if the ratio were 75/25 (which it isn't),  that's an incredibly unfortunate decision. A decision like that makes me honestly question if this is a company I want to continue giving money to as there's obviously a disinterest in people that don't use the exact configuration OBsIV prefers to use. iOS users shouldn't be treated as second class citizens.

I work for a company that produces mobile apps. It's our core offering. We do both Android and iOS, and I am telling you beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Android is *not* as dominant in the actual usage market as it is in the "percentage of install base" stat.

Also, I'm sure you Android guys are going to have tons of fun in the beta. Unless OBsIV has been testing with about a dozen different Android devices, some of you will have a great experience and some of you won't even be able to get the app to work. You can cover iOS in one fell swoop. Android takes tons and tons of testing and code and UI revisions that are sometimes single-device-model-specific.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 10:02 AM - 12/13/13
Singlecoil is webapp support possible if the XIM4 is BT only? Never saw a device that has webapp over BT.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mindworm22 on 10:19 AM - 12/13/13
Roads / Coil --

>>I work for a company that produces mobile apps. It's our core offering. We do both Android and iOS, and I am telling you beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Android is *not* as dominant in the actual usage market as it is in the "percentage of install base" stat.<<

Apple customers have shown a much greater propensity for spending $$$ in the app store, have a higher attachment rate, and are statistically more affluent than Android customers. 

That being said, this isn't about customer propensity.  It's about getting to market asap and ensuring as many people as possible can access out of the gate.  Coil, your analogy about TVs doesn't match up because you'll still have access to all you need via PC out of the gate immediately, so it's a benefit / feature that's not available rather than a customer getting a non-functional box as outlined in your example. 

I'm glad you do the Apple thing and find it simpler than many make it out to be -- should make it that much easier for OBsIV to get it up and running when all is said and done. 
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 10:26 AM - 12/13/13
If recources are low why not outsource the Adnroid and Iphone App to Mindworm?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zacharybinx34 on 10:40 AM - 12/13/13
So is xim4 truly wireless?
Has it got an rf as well as Bluetooth.
Strange that u seem to be going with android first. iOS certainly has a much larger user base especially in the UK.
I Know 2 people with android phones. Everyone else rocks apple products.
Another blow to XIM.
Without iOS support the "cool kids" won't wanna play lol.
I also DON'T WANT A BLUETOOTH ADAPTER PACKAGED WITH XIM4 , don't need it don't want it.
So lets get this straight
No ps4 support and no configuration over iOS hmmmmmmm this product sounds better all the time.
.......walks away angrily then punches small random child in the head.....NAPPA OUT

good riddance
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 10:41 AM - 12/13/13
Singlecoil is webapp support possible if the XIM4 is BT only? Never saw a device that has webapp over BT.

Not really. You'd need browser plugins that are able to communicate with bluetooth hardware on the machine. It would be a nightmare to develop and support. I wouldn't advocate that.

Roads / Coil --

>>I work for a company that produces mobile apps. It's our core offering. We do both Android and iOS, and I am telling you beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Android is *not* as dominant in the actual usage market as it is in the "percentage of install base" stat.<<

Apple customers have shown a much greater propensity for spending $$$ in the app store, have a higher attachment rate, and are statistically more affluent than Android customers. 

That being said, this isn't about customer propensity.  It's about getting to market asap and ensuring as many people as possible can access out of the gate.  Coil, your analogy about TVs doesn't match up because you'll still have access to all you need via PC out of the gate immediately, so it's a benefit / feature that's not available rather than a customer getting a non-functional box as outlined in your example. 

I'm glad you do the Apple thing and find it simpler than many make it out to be -- should make it that much easier for OBsIV to get it up and running when all is said and done. 

The TV analogy was more on par than your Gaikai analogy. I'm not asking for luxury services, I'm asking for the *basic core offering of the device.* So pick whatever analogy you want, but using a nice-to-have as your comparison is inherently flawed.

And also, customer propensity *does* matter here, because those numbers are more likely the people who are actually buying and using Android devices as actual smart phones and tablets and the people who would likely be using them for XIM. People buying MetroPCS Android phones in the ghetto are not XIM's customer base. As far as supporting the greatest number of users, that's hard as all hell with Android. Again, unless OBsIV has been testing on about a dozen Android devices, I think some of you Android guys are going to be in for some surprises. Every single iOS user regardless of iPhone generation, iPad, iPod Touch, whatever would have been covered under one app quite easily. Android takes tons and tons of *device-specific* tweaks to provide a universal app.

Android app development tends to cost about 4X iOS app development solely due to the sheer chaos of supporting a wide array of devices on a wide array of Android versions and even then you have to cut out a significant population of Android users.

I'll give you a rock solid example, my company hasn't supported anything below Android 3.0 in some time now. Have a look at this page:
http://opensignal.com/reports/fragmentation-2013/

Go down to the "ANDROID OPERATING SYSTEM FRAGMENTATION" chart and have a look at how little of that chart is 3.0 or above. Due to changes in the Android API, it would be @#$% near impossible to create a universal app that supports all versions of Android. And now consider how much of the "huge" Android market you cut out by just going 3.0 or higher. Hell, most apps these days are only developed for 4.0 and higher and look how small that percentage of the Android install base is.

I'm not just making stuff up here, I deal with this every single day. No one, no matter what they're developing, goes Android first in the professional app development market. You are *never* supporting the largest possible install base by going Android first. We tell this to every single client that walks in our doors and it's always absolutely true.

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zacharybinx34 on 10:45 AM - 12/13/13
roads, it is cross platform and will support more platforms as quickly as possible. iOS obviously is the next in line.

thanks for the infos

just sucks for me that PS4 and iOS arent top priority because they are harder to realize
but at least i know now that they wont be dropped but worked on on a later date

This is good enough for me as well. Thank you Obsiv.

And to everybody saying that the people asking for iOS were whining, crying, complaining, blah blah blah, what roads said is accurate. Cross platform support is important. Obsiv's decision to support Android first is a *good* business move. My only concern before was that it almost sounded like iOS may not get support at all, and there was also a post back there that mentioned no wired configuration, which would have effectively locked me out of purchasing the device...unless I could somehow convince my windows partition on my mac to play nice with the bluetooth (yeah, right.)

Considering that I've owned XIM2, XIM3, and XIME, and purchased many of the latter 2 as gifts for friends/co-workers/family, I'd be really sad to not be able to get on board with XIM4. Glad that's not going to be the case. :)

Does anyone honestly think OBsIV would do something as silly as to not add IOS support....?



Yes, any other questions?

Roads, your whininess has gone to an entirely new extreme.

Anyone else notice it's primarily the Euroboys who always show up with the self-entitled attitude?



XIM4 works if you have a PC, so saying that because it doesn't SHIP with IOS support means that you are cutting off over 50% of your user base is stupid. If you have IOS you can still use a windows machine to setup your XIM4.

Don't have Windows and have an apple comupter? virtual ware a windows installation.


Stop whining so much, it's really annoying. I'm absolutely not a fanboy who just defends my favorite product no matter what, but you guys have taken this self-entitled whining to an entirely new level.


Even if OBsIV said, "ok guys, we are not releasing XIM4 until it has IOS and mac computer support" your next whining would be about having to wait so long for XIM4 to ship.


Grow up and stop being children. I'm tired of it.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 10:47 AM - 12/13/13
It's about focusing about the right things at the right time. Highest priority was to bring back a screen and support the device all XIM users have been using: PC. Next was to bring back the screen-based configuration experience of XIM3 and make is so that you don't have to be tethered. After that was to eliminate the need for a PC all together with a mobile platform. Then to expand to more mobile platforms.

We could ship in there at any point. We don't have the time at this point to juggle multiple platforms while we are still defining the experience. When the time is right, we will support iOS. And the UX framework we are using supports it with low effort.

The wildcard that wasn't expected is PS4. And, I think everyone will agree that PS4 is more important than iOS.

Concerning Android fragmentation -- I avoid that problem because I chose a platform that has it's own OpenGL rendering stack and UI framework. Otherwise, I would have agreed with you.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 10:51 AM - 12/13/13
Quote
The wildcard that wasn't expected is PS4. And, I think everyone will agree that PS4 is more important than iOS.

of course
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Fade2Blak on 10:54 AM - 12/13/13
Well at least we are making progress.  It has grown now from a Sony vs MS fanboy fight into an iOS vs Android fight.    Both are silly and will not resolve anything.   Since apparently this is so "easy" then maybe you guys should step up, help out the community and take initiative to resolve the issue.  I am a user of the "ghetto" Android system and am quite proud of that fact.  I love the open source and the fragmentation is not as widespread as the critics claim.  iOS support will come, I am sure of that, but common sense dictates that closed source systems take longer and require more effort to penetrate than open source. My company switched from issuing Apple phones and tablets because of the tedious process of getting our travel agency app on the iOS platform.  Hopefully the Windows phone guys dont show up soon or this will get really silly.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mindworm22 on 10:57 AM - 12/13/13
Good idea Roads. 

As a Physical Therapist by trade, I can guarantee with 100% certainty that any iOS and Android products I created would %^# all over whatever OBsIV, Singlecoil, or any other of you "tech types" could come up with.  You know why....?


























I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, of course.

~~~~zing!~~~~
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sledge_Hammer on 10:59 AM - 12/13/13
When the time is right, we will support iOS.

[email protected] it OBsIV we want iOS support now! Stop everything and get us the support we demand, we are more affluent and sophisticated than the Android simpletons, we should not have to wait. We should be first every time, itís all about us and I have the statistics to prove it. iOS is the greatest piece of software ever, how can you ignore it like this, I know you said youíll support it asap but Iím choosing to ignore that fact and simply want to make a mountain out of a molehill. This is a major disaster, all life as we know it could end simply because you are not supporting iOS even though you have stated you are going to. And will the new XIM be able to make coffee in my new iCup? Will it tell me when I need to change my iSocks? Will it help me to get an iGirlfriend? Will it, will it?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: sikpup on 11:00 AM - 12/13/13
i have ps4 and iphone and ipad...  in xim-land i'm totally screwed apparently.  Oh well.  Since I am not willing to purchase an xbox1 or an android device I will just have to accept that there is no xim in my near future for next gen.  In no way do I blame OBsIV, he is right to do it the way he is, it just sucks that I literally possess the perfect storm of ximlessness right now.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 11:00 AM - 12/13/13
Well at least we are making progress.  It has grown now from a Sony vs MS fanboy fight into an iOS vs Android fight.    Both are silly and will not resolve anything.   Since apparently this is so "easy" then maybe you guys should step up, help out the community and take initiative to resolve the issue.  I am a user of the "ghetto" Android system and am quite proud of that fact.  I love the open source and the fragmentation is not as widespread as the critics claim.  iOS support will come, I am sure of that, but common sense dictates that closed source systems take longer and require more effort to penetrate than open source. My company switched from issuing Apple phones and tablets because of the tedious process of getting our travel agency app on the iOS platform.  Hopefully the Windows phone guys dont show up soon or this will get really silly.

I'm not calling Android ghetto. I'm calling the $50 phones that are being sold running Android 2.X ghetto. I don't have a problem with the high end of the Android market.

And as someone who actually works for a company that does Android development, I assure you the fragmentation is *absolutely* as widespread as reported.

Whatever time you "save" by Android's openness in submitting apps you lose in supporting a multitude of devices. As I stated earlier, Android is consistently 4X more time consuming and costly to develop for than iOS over all the projects we've done in the past two years.

OBsIV may have circumvented some of that problem by writing an app in OpenGL rather than utilizing the native Java experience, but to the Android market as a whole, I promise you that as a single end user you don't ever see the complexities of developing for that platform. The "openness" that gets touted is a much bigger hinderance than it is a help and many of us companies who develop apps have been putting pressure on Google to tighten some of their system because it is becoming *prohibitively* expensive to develop for.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 11:03 AM - 12/13/13
Anyone else notice it's primarily the Euroboys who always show up with the self-entitled attitude?

you cannot blame roads for that, its how people are raised over here

dont accept stuff without thinking on it
always have a critic view on it regardless of how familiar you are with it

all the germans (and swiss/austrian) in the german section do think the same as roads, they just dont express it has much as him
but secretly they all are glad that he is the one that raises the word

immanuel kant: im thinking therefore i am

this is a sentence you guys over the big lake should consider too, seeing how your goverment is fooling you left and right
dont accept a good product but rather start to think how it can be done better
without that way of thinking you dont make any progress at all

this so called "self entitled attitude" is the reason for why you enjoy a xim edge beta!
its the reason we have a turn assist
its the reason we might see some sort of standard translator in xim4 again
its the reason the 8ms additional lag was found in the xim code
and its also the reason for a lot of other implementations we have on the xim!

so honestly be more gratefull to people that are like roads!
we cannot have enough of those peoples in the forum, as the general consumer can only benefit of that
it sucks that most of the german speakers in here arent fluid english speakers, or else this topic would be flooded with potential complaints and improvements!



sorry that i did such a big jump on that single sentence Zach, but it highly annoys me when people mock on other people that want to get thinks evolved, that arent fine with what they have but want to push for better circumstances and conditions
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 11:05 AM - 12/13/13
Fade, I'm actually a Windows Phone user (probably on the few on here. And it will be supported -- after iOS. :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Fade2Blak on 11:09 AM - 12/13/13
Fade, I'm actually a Windows Phone user (probably on the few on here. And it will be supported -- after iOS. :)
  The reason I said that is our company actually went to Windows tablets...lol...I own all platforms. granted my apple product is an Ipod touch, but nice to see you have all of them in your sights.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 11:11 AM - 12/13/13
I do, and we aren't making decisions that would make that not possible. I mean, we could even support Blackberry easily if we wanted to.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Fade2Blak on 11:18 AM - 12/13/13
Odin, I agree on the push for more inclusion as it helps the majority, but doing it at no cost or sacrifice to your own well being makes it look like self entitlement.  Millions of Americans scream for  what they think they should have but make no effort  to get it for themselves.   Its easy to throw stones at the King, much harder to be the King.  Americans are just as bad as feeling entitled, trust me, my taxes reflect that. So it isnt just an EU thing.  I also disagree with that being why the XIM offers so much.  I think it proves that ObSiV listens to his community and makes every effort to include the things that make his product better. It isnt because you complained about it, its because he saw the feasibility of it.  The squeaky wheel doesnt always get the grease, sometimes it just gets replaced.  I have always said I respect Roads because his concerns are plausible and based in fact but sometimes brute force will not solve an issue and tact needs to be used.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sledge_Hammer on 11:30 AM - 12/13/13
I have always said I respect Roads because his concerns are plausible and based in fact but sometimes brute force will not solve an issue and tact needs to be used.

Itís not what he says but HOW he says it that irks most people, everything is black and white with him, there is no grey. Also, Iíve yet to meet a German who has been able to make me laugh, possibly a by-product of their rational/critical mind-set.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 11:35 AM - 12/13/13
While I don't agree with the delivery and harshness some of you used I think the best thing to come out of this "conversation" is the Bluetooth 4 LE revelation. Let's hope that's a viable solution if they need to go that route.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zenigame96 on 11:52 AM - 12/13/13
I need to apologize for the harshness of my original post in regards to iOS Support. It was late last night and I had already read "no wired configuration" which got me really scared.. Sorry Obsiv. I know you do everything you can to support your customers. Very rarely do I ever see a developer that cares so much about their community. <3

That being said, bluetooth configuration through Windows should be pretty straight forward, even for people booting into Windows on a Mac, right? My main concern is that anytime I've tried to get Windows bluetooth to work on my Mac it's been a very painful experience. :\

How hard would it be to add the wired configuration back in, since it's all built on the Edge framework? That would also keep you from having to include the BT adapter for people that don't have BT enabled PCs and save a couple bucks per product that way.

Oh and very well said Od1n. I'm an American but I do appreciate roads and how vocal he is, even if he can get a little abrasive sometimes. I think everybody is just really excited to start XIMing on next gen.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 12:10 PM - 12/13/13
So is xim4 truly wireless?
Has it got an rf as well as Bluetooth.
Strange that u seem to be going with android first. iOS certainly has a much larger user base especially in the UK.
I Know 2 people with android phones. Everyone else rocks apple products.
Another blow to XIM.
Without iOS support the "cool kids" won't wanna play lol.
I also DON'T WANT A BLUETOOTH ADAPTER PACKAGED WITH XIM4 , don't need it don't want it.
So lets get this straight
No ps4 support and no configuration over iOS hmmmmmmm this product sounds better all the time.
.......walks away angrily then punches small random child in the head.....NAPPA OUT

good riddance
^^^ definitely a Yankee....don't you understand sarcasm?
I support whatever OBsIV decides.
I don't like apple products and it don't matter to me which OS I have to use to configure XIM
Ps4 support is coming and so is iOS....I can read..just bein a sarcy
The only thing I would like to know now is will there be an option NOT to have a Bluetooth dongle chucked in with the XIM orbsiv..don't need it. If not it ain't really a problem as it will end up in my drawer of unwanted/needed gadgets. Just don't see the point in adding extra cost to XIM
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mikael on 12:21 PM - 12/13/13
Obsiv , I'm not sure if you mentioned it before but will we have standard translators or ballistic curves with xim4 ? Also another thing, I feel that smart translators are very accurate but once you lock on to an enemy and you start shooting , the crosshair goes all over the place. I noticed that with controllers that's not the case. I see my brother play with a controller and he is able to maintain his aim fine even when he starts shooting at an enemy. Can you please look into that with the xim4 ? See what can be done about that please because I feel like I have a disadvantage against the controller players most of the time and that wasn't the case with my xim1 xim2 or xim3 because of the standard translators .
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 12:24 PM - 12/13/13
Are you two done? This is the RC board, not a FFA.

McNappa, there has been enough nitpicking. The adapter is needed to guarantee a standard way of interfacing with your XIM4. Without it there will be more people than just you complaining that they have a pc without bluetooth and don't have a smart device. If you'd like I can paypal you a dollar to cover the cost of the included adapter.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zacharybinx34 on 12:26 PM - 12/13/13
Are you two done? This is the RC board, not a FFA.

McNappa, there has been enough nitpicking. The adapter is needed to guarantee a standard way of interfacing with your XIM4. Without it there will be more people than just you complaining that they have a pc without bluetooth and don't have a smart device. If you'd like I can paypal you a dollar to cover the cost of the included adapter.

rofl, nailed it.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 12:36 PM - 12/13/13
I do, and we aren't making decisions that would make that not possible. I mean, we could even support Blackberry easily if we wanted to.

Please.... Lol

I have a BB and a Iphone/Ipad. No Android though  :'(
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:10 PM - 12/13/13
I want back and read Obsivs first post and it seems I have misunderstood. I thought he would not support iOS at all. Sorry Obsiv.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: tuffrabit on 01:13 PM - 12/13/13
wow... was about to say.  It seems as though the dissenters are so caught up in their righteous fury that they aren't really reading OBsIV's posts.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zacharybinx34 on 01:13 PM - 12/13/13
I want back and read Obsivs first post and it seems I have misunderstood. I thought he would not support iOS at all. Sorry Obsiv.

rofl, I was going to say Roads....

I've seen you persistent... But never gone this far into unrealistic before =)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 01:35 PM - 12/13/13
Obsiv , I'm not sure if you mentioned it before but will we have standard translators or ballistic curves with xim4 ? Also another thing, I feel that smart translators are very accurate but once you lock on to an enemy and you start shooting , the crosshair goes all over the place. I noticed that with controllers that's not the case. I see my brother play with a controller and he is able to maintain his aim fine even when he starts shooting at an enemy. Can you please look into that with the xim4 ? See what can be done about that please because I feel like I have a disadvantage against the controller players most of the time and that wasn't the case with my xim1 xim2 or xim3 because of the standard translators .

That shouldn't be happening.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joey McCamper on 01:52 PM - 12/13/13
Will there be Palm Pre support?
 (http://ih3.redbubble.net/image.11306420.0926/sticker,375x360.png)

Back to seriousness, I appreciate the hard work. Please let us know if we can help in any way.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 01:55 PM - 12/13/13
Are you two done? This is the RC board, not a FFA.

McNappa, there has been enough nitpicking. The adapter is needed to guarantee a standard way of interfacing with your XIM4. Without it there will be more people than just you complaining that they have a pc without bluetooth and don't have a smart device. If you'd like I can paypal you a dollar to cover the cost of the included adapter.
PayPal to
[email protected]
I have two growing children and am what you would call poor since I cannot find work in the current financial crunch here in the uk.
That dollar would be greatly appreciated as I could buy some beans and a loaf of bread.
Every penny counts
I also stated it would not bother me if there was no option to not have the Bluetooth adapter.
I use all my spare tech or anything I can get my hands on.
I give away a lot of pc's/ tv/cookers/fridges etc etc to people who are in a worse situation than me.
16 pc's were built by my hands personally and given to a disabled charity in my local area.
I make no money off any of it.
Do not make light of a dollar until you know it's true value

One last thing...and remember this
01011000 01001001 01001101 00100000 01101111 01110010 01100010 01110011 01101001 01110110 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01100111 01101111 01101110 01101110 01100001 00100000 01100010 01100101 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01100111 01110010 01100101 01100001 01110100 01100101 01110011 01110100 00100000 01100111 01100001 01100100 01100111 01100101 01110100 00100000 01100110 01101111 01110010 00100000 01100011 01101111 01101110 01110011 01101111 01101100 01100101 01110011 00100000 01100101 01110110 01100101 01110010 00101110 00101110 00101110 01110001 01110101 01100101 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01110011 01100011 01110010 01100101 01100001 01101101 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01100011 01101111 01100100 00100000 01101011 01101001 01100100 01110011

Sorry bout the spat now back to topic
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 02:00 PM - 12/13/13
It sounds like you may get some use out of that bluetooth adapter after all then.

55 73 65 20 68 65 78 20 69 6e 73 74 65 61 64 2c 20 6c 65 73 73 20 64 61 74 61 2e
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 02:21 PM - 12/13/13
It sounds like you may get some use out of that bluetooth adapter after all then.

55 73 65 20 68 65 78 20 69 6e 73 74 65 61 64 2c 20 6c 65 73 73 20 64 61 74 61 2e
It will go to a good cause mist
I have no idea what that string is...don't speak C++
I build stuff with hammers and big tools that make lots of noise and can always be used as an improvised toy gun...oh yeaaaahhh

You got me thinking..maybe I should start to learn.
Can't get a job hittin stuff with hammers anymore( not legally anyways )
And now my left hand is @#$% maybe its time to use my brain again.
Wow mist you have blown my mind
Anyone know a good place to start learning c++
And where can I get good newbie tutorials for maya 3d/3d studio max or recommend the best program?

XIM orbsiv is coming.
And this time there will be no prisoners
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 02:25 PM - 12/13/13
Oh I don't code, it was hex.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: RML on 02:50 PM - 12/13/13
Oh I don't code, it was hex.

 Lol...
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 03:01 PM - 12/13/13
Oh I don't code, it was hex.

Sometime when you're bored try editing some hex values for drivers. It's a jolly good time.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Thera6179 on 03:34 PM - 12/13/13

One last thing...and remember this
01011000 01001001 01001101 00100000 01101111 01110010 01100010 01110011 01101001 01110110 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01100111 01101111 01101110 01101110 01100001 00100000 01100010 01100101 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01100111 01110010 01100101 01100001 01110100 01100101 01110011 01110100 00100000 01100111 01100001 01100100 01100111 01100101 01110100 00100000 01100110 01101111 01110010 00100000 01100011 01101111 01101110 01110011 01101111 01101100 01100101 01110011 00100000 01100101 01110110 01100101 01110010 00101110 00101110 00101110 01110001 01110101 01100101 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01110011 01100011 01110010 01100101 01100001 01101101 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01100011 01101111 01100100 00100000 01101011 01101001 01100100 01110011

Sorry bout the spat now back to topic

Means

XIM orbsiv is gonna be the greatest gadget for consoles ever...que the screaming cod kids  ;D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 04:05 PM - 12/13/13
iOS users shouldn't be treated as second class citizens.
3rd class citizens then?  :P



  that Android is *not* as dominant in the actual usage market as it is in the "percentage of install base" stat.

Also, I'm sure you Android guys are going to have tons of fun in the beta. Unless OBsIV has been testing with about a dozen different Android devices, some of you will have a great experience and some of you won't even be able to get the app to work. You can cover iOS in one fell swoop. Android takes tons and tons of testing and code and UI revisions that are sometimes single-device-model-specific.

i'm trying real hard to stay the hell away from this discussion. i will keep at it bu i'm making a few lines of exception regarding the iOS colors you are trying to paint.



you mean people who pay for overpriced devices and dumbdown software are more likely to pay for other stuff? like apps? more likely to pay for overpriced apps at that since most of the stuff can be gotten for free these days? SHOCKER.

You can cover Android in one fell swoop too nowadays. actually it's pretty easy now to get 2.1+ supported without any optimisations beyond the core. it requires people to have learned something when they took their degrees though. just because you can code it doesn't make you the best coder in the world, nor even the best coder in the world is bound to be a good software engineer or software designer.


i empathyse with you OSX and iOS users for the XIM4 support but if you are going to use incorrect logical argumentation and if you are going to spinn the iOSvsAndroid you will just hurt your cause and invite people to dive into classic a phone war "fanboy" argument instead of continuing on point.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 04:29 PM - 12/13/13
Again, unless OBsIV has been testing on about a dozen Android devices, I think some of you Android guys are going to be in for some surprises. Every single iOS user regardless of iPhone generation, iPad, iPod Touch, whatever would have been covered under one app quite easily. Android takes tons and tons of *device-specific* tweaks to provide a universal app.

Android app development tends to cost about 4X iOS app development solely due to the sheer chaos of supporting a wide array of devices on a wide array of Android versions and even then you have to cut out a significant population of Android users.

I'll give you a rock solid example, my company hasn't supported anything below Android 3.0 in some time now.

 No one, no matter what they're developing, goes Android first in the professional app development market. You are *never* supporting the largest possible install base by going Android first. We tell this to every single client that walks in our doors and it's always absolutely true.

no it doesn't take tons. it takes quality work. it depends on case to case basis as some people want very specific and demanding designs. but for something more forgiving and generic like what i believe the XIM app will be it's no where near taking even 1.5X the work it takes for iOS. only think i'd do personally is target androids >4 at first and then grow the base as far as 2.1 later...


that is really all it takes, is to only support android 2.1 forward or 4.0 forward.

that is just a lie. to say no one goes android first is really a stupid lie at that. mind you, it is true the vast majority goes iOS 1st, and it is a dieing tendency that dies a little more every day. but that does not equal "no one", not by far. many services have decided to go android EXCLUSIVE and many devs have grown to love the ad system so much they've given up on the classical income system just to name 2 things that crush your idiotic claim. why are you ruining a perfectly sound case with bad arguments that just make you sound like a fanboy ?


i've seen a good deal of cases where devs took 1/2X on android than iOS because of freedom issues. i've seen countless cases of Apple striking down apps for the most random and non sensical issues. given the beta is the very definition of "half as$ing", why not cut to the chase and go for the OS most of the XIMers use.


or do you actually believe most of the XIMers use iOS? you are delusional if you do. even with US/UK's iOS love numbers rich people are few, poor people are many just like androids and imatey. you rich have too little sex. and the dumb, we can tell them anything and they'll accept it.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 04:33 PM - 12/13/13
Anyone else notice it's primarily the Euroboys who always show up with the self-entitled attitude?

Grow up and stop being children. I'm tired of it.

you are trolling every 9.9 out of 10 posts. you need to take your advice.


this is the 4rd time in a few months i've seen you take the same xenophobic troll dick argument that it's the "euros" [insert_negative_something_here].

showing your imperialistic, xenophobic, childish attitude everyday.


and i'm not even one to talk about childish and trolling because of glass ceilings.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 04:41 PM - 12/13/13
Fade, I'm actually a Windows Phone user (probably on the few on here. And it will be supported -- after iOS. :)

it's not like i'm going to tell the guy that makes the XIM to not enable support for HIS phone but.. please can we get most of the stuff out of the way before that? LOL

i think WiiU support would be more used than WP LOL!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 04:55 PM - 12/13/13
ak-xs, no offense dude, but I'm not even going to respond to your points because they're 99% factually incorrect.

Again, this is my profession. I know how this stuff works. Until you're getting paid a salary to develop mobile apps at a company that develops mobile apps as a core offering, you're probably not in a place to argue with me over how mobile app development works. Also, I'd encourage you to re-read like 90% of what I posted because either you just skimmed it or your reading comprehension is a bit off on what I was saying.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: The Pfhor on 04:59 PM - 12/13/13
Just boggles my mind that this man has been busting his @#$% with limited resources to get out a beta that he never really needed to release, came asking his community for help in finding compatible BT adapters, then gets lambasted because it doesnt support everything in the world right away.  I must say I for one am embarassed by the treatment he just got for trying to make all of us gamers a device we adore.  Some of you should really be ashamed.  BETA means implementing and installing as progression grows. He wants to cast his net in the pond with the most fish, for beta purposes, and a few of you are crucifying him.   Not cool at all.

I am not done reading all the way up yet, but +1 for this. Guys, I know you want this (and as a dedicated iOS and OS X user myself, I agree), but chill out. I understand your frustrations, but OBsIV by all means does not have to be doing this. Relax, everything will work out in the end.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: giuseppe on 05:08 PM - 12/13/13
I have been paging through trying to find where we are with everything for too long now but it is a big tl;dr over which phone OS is better.

Whichever phone you want to look at everyday - that is the best phone, for you.  Accept that other people may not want the same as you - but hey that's what keeps your phone in stock and not costing a billion dollars when you go to buy the next one.

Now that that is over..  is it safe to say the following points are true?

1 - No beta yet
2 - No news for XIM4 release
3 - We are working on which bluetooth adapter is appropriate

Sound about right?  Usually I am a RTFM kind of guy but it seems that this thread's content has gone a bit off topic.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joey McCamper on 05:12 PM - 12/13/13
^ all of the following points are correct.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: singlecoilpickup on 05:15 PM - 12/13/13
Ok, I feel like this last clarification needs to get made and this is the last I'm going to say about it:

No one has been arguing which OS is better. I don't care what phone OS people want to use. It's amazing how people always think that's the argument the minute you bring up both OSes in the same sentence. I'm not arguing that iOS should have received preferential treatment. Not once in this thread has that been my point.

My point has only been that both OSes should be receiving equal treatment because the notion that one actually has a considerably larger portion of the market than the other is a fallacy. I don't even care to argue which is in the lead and which isn't, just that they deserve equal billing because in terms of actual usage they're much closer than the raw "marketshare" numbers indicate.

I will say that developing for Android is a bigger PITA than iOS because that's simply the reality of the situation, not because I'm biased toward one of the other. I do prefer iOS for my personal use, but as I said numerous time, I have no issue whatsoever with the modern/higher end of the Android spectrum. I do hate the low end stuff still being churned out running Android 2.1 and being sold cheap. I dislike those phones because they hold the entire mobile market back.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: aeo on 06:00 PM - 12/13/13
My knowledge with mobile apps is limited but it was my understanding the approval process with apple was somewhat long and that would just add to the waiting time for the beta.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 06:19 PM - 12/13/13
If you'd like I can paypal you a dollar to cover the cost of the included adapter.

wait, a dollar? as in singular, 1, dollar? well if that's the added cost then you win this round. don't let it get to your head  ;D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: The Pfhor on 06:22 PM - 12/13/13
coil, that was a non-starter. The UI is the most complex piece. You all seem to have a limited expectation of the experience. A single experience (desktop and mobile) that does it all. Meaning, if you have mobile, you never go back to your PC. The UI needs to be rich, animated, fluid and identical between platforms. Multiple presentation frameworks doesn't meet that goal and certainly HTML is a non-starter.

I am taking this as an awesome sign! I was a little worried that the UI for the mobile app might be a little...lacking in terms of creativity. But clearly you guys are going to make it (as you said) fluid and clean.

Then again, I should just look at my XIM3 and how well that was laid out and think again. Only thing I ever wanted from my XIM3 btw was to be able to change the background color, but that's merely because I am not a fan of the color red haha.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 06:32 PM - 12/13/13
ak-xs, no offense dude, but I'm not even going to respond to your points because they're 99% factually incorrect.

Again, this is my profession. I know how this stuff works. Until you're getting paid a salary to develop mobile apps at a company that develops mobile apps as a core offering, you're probably not in a place to argue with me over how mobile app development works. Also, I'd encourage you to re-read like 90% of what I posted because either you just skimmed it or your reading comprehension is a bit off on what I was saying.

no they are not. even OBsIV used one fell swoop to get android support and clearly got through certification easier or at least had the impression of such. so some of the things you say fall down in light of the facts at hand much less if we start to pull ranks.

i'd also advise you to think twice, don't judge me by my cover as there are more pages to me than what you'd imagine, for better or worse. i'm sick of seeing iOS vs droid discussions from the dev perspective because of being among them and i rarely take part, i have a bias against apple for some reasons but i know the strengths of their crap much like i know the weaknesses of the droid dung. you can tell me you work on the biggest mobile company in the world and i will still call BS on some of what you said. i can't deny what i see and know of just because i empathise with your "quest"..

i don't even know why you'd think i misinterpreted you, but again, you completely missed your point in your eagerness to make your case. that is all i'm saying. you didn't have to put any arguments pro iOS apart from users using it. you didn't speak one word saying coding for Mac is easier than for windows blabla, have you noticed?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: TheCityWok on 06:39 PM - 12/13/13
Are smart translators going to be improved on xim4. Or are they going to be pretty much the same and made the same?
Title: Re: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 06:45 PM - 12/13/13
Coil, you keep popping into this thread and then saying "but I just like to add that..." then going on and on about how much harder it is on the Android to do blah blah blah. Then how much easier it is on iOS.

We get your point already, we don't care about your view on that, it adds nothing to what is currently being done. OBsIV already said that...

"Concerning Android fragmentation -- I avoid that problem because I chose a platform that has it's own OpenGL rendering stack and UI framework. Otherwise, I would have agreed with you."

Handled and done.

If people run into problems down the road because of variations on their version of Android you needn't concern yourself, it'll get worked out I'm sure.

You'll get the support you'd like on iOS eventually, it's just that Android gets it first. Not the end of the World, deal with it.

I also understand that this stuff is your profession and you understand it more than most of us. I can respect that, but I don't care about your credentials in the end, they mean nothing in the grand scheme of XIM4 development.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: CameronMC on 06:56 PM - 12/13/13
Anyone else here is just waiting for the announcement?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 06:58 PM - 12/13/13
I dislike those phones because they hold the entire mobile market back.

that's BS. no one is being held back.

those cheap phones bring in thousands/millions of users into the market that otherwise could very well not be there. devs can target what they want, if they're supporting lower ranks while they don't want to they are stupid and it's very fair they suffer from their stupidity.

many apps don't support certain devices or demand certain requisites, they still do alright. sometimes they do better than if they tried to do "everything".

if you code for a nexus device the app will mostly be ok in all nexus devices. just as what happens in iOS. but if you choose to cater to different publics than you need to cater to different requisites.

how blindsighted are you that you "wish" to cover 3x the userbase andnot expect 3x the work? that would be the more straightforward thing to happen. while it's not the case nor is it really that simple, the fragmentation issue you get so annoyed by is more than the black you choose to paint it by. it's also a major positive thing,among others even.

no one is forcing any dev to cater to every device under the sun. people choose what they think is best.


also you must have never had the fun of trying to get a site to work for IE4 or something because big firms are still running ancient setups.. and let me guess if you made games you would only support [insert_nextgen_console_here] or the alternative would be supporting xbone+360+xbox1+PS4+PS3+PS2+PS1+WiiU+Wii+GC+N64+Dreamcast+Windows+Mac+Linux+Tablets+phones+ereaders+Vita+PSP+3DS+DS ???

it's just insane to say you are holding a market back because you are choosing to cater to a bigger market base. that'd be exactly like saying OBsIV is held back because he needs to support Mac users..
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: wunderdunce on 07:33 PM - 12/13/13
So basically if I have a iPhone and a MacBook then nothings really going to change from the Xim Edge?

I mean I have to run a VM now to configure the edge I would be happy at least knowing that Mac Osx and ios support will be coming.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 07:50 PM - 12/13/13
Do either of you mind opening up a new thread for this? It seems arguing just for the sake of arguing at this point.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: slackchain on 08:08 PM - 12/13/13
I agree!!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: rob3d on 11:29 PM - 12/13/13
Just lock the thread temporarily so the zealots and whiners can simmer down over the weekend. Maybe they'll play nice come Monday.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: THE-MARAVINGY on 03:42 AM - 12/14/13
Ditto,

Obsiv must have the patience of Jobe.

If i was him reading through all this i'd close the door right now and say stuff you all make your own XIM if you can i'll make my XIM 4 and one only for me.

He does have a day job this does not make him enough money to give up his day job so give him a break.

Infact i am surprised that there is no charge for a new ST, i would be happy to pay £10 or even £20 for a new ST each time i need one for the new game.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: reqless on 11:39 AM - 12/14/13
He does have a day job this does not make him enough money to give up his day job so give him a break.

Actually XIM development is his day job. You're underestimating the money; Team Xecuter just made killing off of xim users for being a mere temporary solution for Xbone.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: dragon9 on 12:42 PM - 12/14/13
Yeah stop it already guys.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Leftfieldgenecide on 02:37 PM - 12/14/13
Back on topic please.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: gibkeeg on 02:38 PM - 12/14/13
Don't want to derail the XIM4beta talk for Xboxone , so I'll just link.

New info on the PS4-DS4 bluetooth/licensed controllers has been released.

Sony has implemented a 4byte hash/checksum on all HID traffic over bluetooth.  HID is sent over USB without the 4byte has/checksum explaining why it is "ignored"

http://www.xim3.com/community/index.php?topic=29885.msg370907#msg370907
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 02:42 PM - 12/14/13
http://eleccelerator.com/usbxlater-dualshock-4-playstation-4-weekly-report-dec-15-2013/

so it seems some of us were right in our speculation and some were completely off, like fade2black. PS4 is listening for a "key" to validate input and will ignore all that comes without the key.

but please let's keep on listening to idiotic theories, what's next? game devs need to code if you can turn off the PS4 or not? (pardon the fail attempt, can't imagine anything on the same level of nonsense)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 02:45 PM - 12/14/13
http://eleccelerator.com/usbxlater-dualshock-4-playstation-4-weekly-report-dec-15-2013/

so it seems some of us were right in our speculation and some were completely off, like fade2black. PS4 is listening for a "key" to validate input and will ignore all that comes without the key.

but please let's keep on listening to idiotic theories, what's next? game devs need to code if you can turn off the PS4 or not? (pardon the fail attempt, can't imagine anything on the same level of nonsense)
+1
So then third party controller it is then
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: gibkeeg on 02:56 PM - 12/14/13
So then third party controller it is then

Nope, XIM spoofs the data.  Can't spoof a data stream with a hash/checksum.  Doesn't matter if it's official or not, over usb or bluetooth.  You need to crack the hash/checksum.  Move it to the other topic though, don't want to derail this thread from getting the xbone beta out.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 03:29 PM - 12/14/13
So then third party controller it is then

Nope, XIM spoofs the data.  Can't spoof a data stream with a hash/checksum.  Doesn't matter if it's official or not, over usb or bluetooth.  You need to crack the hash/checksum.  Move it to the other topic though, don't want to derail this thread from getting the xbone beta out.
XIM is a passthrough...is that not different from spoofing ala Cronus
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: gibkeeg on 04:01 PM - 12/14/13
So then third party controller it is then

Nope, XIM spoofs the data.  Can't spoof a data stream with a hash/checksum.  Doesn't matter if it's official or not, over usb or bluetooth.  You need to crack the hash/checksum.  Move it to the other topic though, don't want to derail this thread from getting the xbone beta out.
XIM is a passthrough...is that not different from spoofing ala Cronus


On the authentication sure, that's why you still need the controller plugged in.  The HID data stream between the ps4 and DS4  still needs to be injected with your input data from your mouse/keyboard though.  That unfortunately is hash/checksummed. 
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mikael on 07:02 PM - 12/14/13
Does that mean obsiv would have to brake the law of he made xim4 work with the ps4?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 08:06 PM - 12/14/13
Yep.if he breaks code he breaks the law. Looks like it might be a no go for ps4
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: TheCityWok on 08:12 PM - 12/14/13
Well shoot oh well. I have both consoles but I'd rather be playing MP on PS4. Looks like all FPS will be bought on the One for me.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 08:38 PM - 12/14/13
Well shoot oh well. I have both consoles but I'd rather be playing MP on PS4. Looks like all FPS will be bought on the One for me.

It would appear that way unfortunately.   :(
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GreyMouser on 11:57 PM - 12/14/13
Well shoot oh well. I have both consoles but I'd rather be playing MP on PS4. Looks like all FPS will be bought on the One for me.

It would appear that way unfortunately.   :(

Does look bleak for PS4. Maybe Obs/XIM could be the next Hori (Sony-supported m/k option). "If you can't beat them, join them"...I've had too much to drink tonight...
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:12 AM - 12/15/13
I hope Obsiv analyses this as fast as possible after the beta is out as this determines the choice of consoles for many of us. I will not buy a PS4 if the XIM4 wont work with it even if it is faster and better suited for gaming.
W11ces plan b is useless without STs made and how should they be made if there is no ST generator for the PS4. It needs XIM to do that.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: gibkeeg on 12:32 AM - 12/15/13
I hope Obsiv analyses this as fast as possible after the beta is out as this determines the choice of consoles for many of us. I will not buy a PS4 if the XIM4 wont work with it even if it is faster and better suited for gaming.
W11ces plan b is useless without STs made and how should they be made if there is no ST generator for the PS4. It needs XIM to do that.

It's not useless without ST.  We lived for years without ST's.  Plus all it would take for the ST to work is to plug the flexible PCB modded controller into the XIM.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:03 AM - 12/15/13
Yeah but KBAM quality is much less and as there are no new STs made the old ones will soon be junk for the new games. You better have a XIM3 for standard translating. If I have to choose between a slightly better resolution and higher framerate  and significant KBAM Quality, I choose tha later. Also you will not have the new XIM4 features that are at least live editing of all settings.
Its like not many people chose the PS3 with adapters and the XIM3.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Bludwerk on 01:32 AM - 12/15/13
I'm entirely out of my element and have no idea what all the technical lingo means, so I'll ask: what is it about the way the DS4 is manufactured that makes PS4 support unlikely (or very difficult)? Has Sony implemented something with the sole purpose of disallowing XIM support, or is this just coincidental?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:40 AM - 12/15/13
The transmission seems coded over bluetooth, does not talk wired at all with the PS4 and it is yet unknown how 3d party controllers will communicate, coded or not. Thatís about it. If everything is coded then Obsiv can not accomplish the XIM4 on PS4 without breaking the code which is illegal in the US to my knowledge.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:41 AM - 12/15/13
That is maybe an Idea, it could be legal in some countries to break the code.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 01:52 AM - 12/15/13
In any event soon we will see how true sony official aftermarket controllers behave.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mikael on 01:55 AM - 12/15/13
Sony just had to be a @#$% to us this gen
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 01:57 AM - 12/15/13
Let's not jump to conclusions. Doom and gloom is not what we need right now.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:04 AM - 12/15/13
Speculation is quite normal when information is missing Mist. No Doom here. If you want to hear something positive we would have to talk about the XIM in combination with the Bone.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 02:07 AM - 12/15/13
Soon.

(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/446/285/678.gif)

Am I doing this right?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:09 AM - 12/15/13
perfectly!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: CameronMC on 02:16 AM - 12/15/13
So it's 6pm SUNDAY night here, only few more hours till Monday and like I was wondering if like most US TV Shows I could get that BETA announcement fast tracked :D?8)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: mist4fun on 02:17 AM - 12/15/13
12-3AM here. Nice try :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: CameronMC on 02:18 AM - 12/15/13
I hate living hours ahead of other countries sometimes  :'(
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: CUBIC1 on 02:25 AM - 12/15/13
I hate living hours ahead of other countries sometimes  :'(

lol  me too
checking this thread every 20 mint
i got my cronusmax just now
but am not existed about it like the xim4e beta
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: izzy on 03:40 AM - 12/15/13
....... Looks like it might be a no go for ps4

Too many speculations of doom.

You guys should just wait for an official announcement
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: kboogie on 04:02 AM - 12/15/13
the only thing we can do is speculate...as i notice on all forums they never give you the "BLUF"(Bottom Line Up Front") so what are we supposed to do
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 04:19 AM - 12/15/13
roads chill. worst case scenario PS4 support takes a long time to come, best case it comes in a few months. either way it will come, just a matter of patience.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 04:25 AM - 12/15/13
If you say that :D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: CUBIC1 on 06:30 AM - 12/15/13
4:00 PM hare

waiting , waiting  ,waiting,waiting,waiting,waiting

and

waiting
for the beta "" :o
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sledge_Hammer on 07:48 AM - 12/15/13
Guys, there already is a 3rd party usb controller available for the PS4 with an official Sony license so please stop saying weíll have to wait for one. This is the controller:-

http://www.thrustmaster.com/en_UK/products/t80-driveclub-edition

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thrustmaster-Driveclub-Edition-Racing-Wheel/dp/B00F9F047K

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GC-052-TH

Now I know itís a steering wheel BUT if it communicates via USB there must be someone who can uncover if the data is encoded. This will at least give us a clue as to whether or not PS4 support could be accomplished with a suitable 3rd party device. Not an ideal solution but still a solution nonetheless.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 07:54 AM - 12/15/13
that has been known and discussed widely here, fret not.

i guess that Sony just hands out some sort of chip/pcb thingy that makes the encryption through their licence program. it may be the same situation as with the DS4 or it may not, but odds are that it talks via USB using the same method as DS4 does via BT, if that's the case then OBsIV will have to either mess with a 3rd party device, try the licence or "quit" the PS4.


the market for PS4 is just too big for OB to ignore and there are always ways outside of official status but it will take time. a long time.

oh and the thing about the wheel is it might just work on racing games. we still do not know exactly. if that were to be the case then it would be useless. however it is likely it will work like a normal controller in all PS4 games with its normal buttons. but we can't be sure until a test is done and divulged.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sledge_Hammer on 08:10 AM - 12/15/13
but we can't be sure until a test is done and divulged.

This is why devices like this should be investigated in order to determine the best course of action. PlayStation guys are in limbo atm, Iím not asking for a solution right now but an estimate on how long it might take based on what is currently known. If you donít know how controllers like this communicate then everyone is in the dark about a possible solution. This isnít an unreasonable request, find out how this works and let people know. We can then make an informed decision about whether to wait for PS4, go with Xbone or return to our native land (PC).
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 08:48 AM - 12/15/13
well OBsIV is busy with the beta atm, isn't he under a lot of attention for that right now? let him finish this first. i bet after this is out of the way he will dive deep into PS4 waters to try and find a titanic treasure solution. but he can't duplicate his resources so we have to be calm for a little while and wait our time to annoy him. right now it's xbone/edge owners turn to be restless
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 11:43 AM - 12/15/13
We got a phone talking to XIM4 last night which is a huge breakthrough for us. Remember that XIM4 has a custom USB and Bluetooth stack. Very few people attempt that but is critical for us to get the highest level of quality out of game play. Something else it gives us is a better chance at solving the PS4 problem. I'm not worried about these mysterious 4 bytes. If Sony was serious about encryption it wouldn't be that weak. It may be just a chucksum for data integrity. We will know more when we are back on it.

Concerning the Beta I need to set expectations. The order is going to be formal announcement of XIM4 and then the small "Alpha" team is going to get the drop first. They need to verify quality before handing it off to everyone. At the same time I'll be stressing XIM4 for days with our "input monkeys" (Edges modified to generate non-stop random input). The point is that you all need high quality even though this is a "Beta". I'll provide an updated timeframe after the announcement showing full end-to-end experience running (which we expect to hit no later than tomorrow).
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Atlasprime on 11:48 AM - 12/15/13
Woot woot!  Keep up the great work!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: NyCShadow on 11:48 AM - 12/15/13
We got a phone talking to XIM4 last night which is a huge breakthrough for us. Remember that XIM4 has a custom USB and Bluetooth stack. Very few people attempt that but is critical for us to get the highest level of quality out of game play. Something else it gives us is a better chance at solving the PS4 problem. I'm not worried about these mysterious 4 bytes. If Sony was serious about encryption it wouldn't be that weak. It may be just a chucksum for data integrity. We will know more when we are back on it.

Concerning the Beta I need to set expectations. The order is going to be formal announcement of XIM4 and then the small "Alpha" team is going to get the drop first. They need to verify quality before handing it off to everyone. At the same time I'll be stressing XIM4 for days with our "input monkeys" (Edges modified to generate non-stop random input). The point is that you all need high quality even though this is a "Beta". I'll provide an updated timeframe after the announcement showing full end-to-end experience running (which we expect to hit no later than tomorrow).

thanks for keeping us posted, appreciate all you and the XIM team do.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 11:52 AM - 12/15/13
Something else it gives us is a better chance at solving the PS4 problem. I'm not worried about these mysterious 4 bytes. If Sony was serious about encryption it wouldn't be that weak.

(http://www.theroxy.com/files/2013/08/HOORAY-1.gif)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 12:02 PM - 12/15/13
If both DS4 Bluetooth signal and the signal from licensed USB devices are heavily encrypted, what would be the point of having the DS4 only work via Bluetooth?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PUBzZz on 12:17 PM - 12/15/13
Ok so what Bluetooth adapter is everyone getting? Looking at the list on the other thread which one do we think is the best fit regardless of price?  Looking to order mine tonight.

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 12:26 PM - 12/15/13
Please be advised that list isn't official.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 12:27 PM - 12/15/13
We got a phone talking to XIM4 last night which is a huge breakthrough for us. Remember that XIM4 has a custom USB and Bluetooth stack. Very few people attempt that but is critical for us to get the highest level of quality out of game play. Something else it gives us is a better chance at solving the PS4 problem. I'm not worried about these mysterious 4 bytes. If Sony was serious about encryption it wouldn't be that weak. It may be just a chucksum for data integrity. We will know more when we are back on it.

Concerning the Beta I need to set expectations. The order is going to be formal announcement of XIM4 and then the small "Alpha" team is going to get the drop first. They need to verify quality before handing it off to everyone. At the same time I'll be stressing XIM4 for days with our "input monkeys" (Edges modified to generate non-stop random input). The point is that you all need high quality even though this is a "Beta". I'll provide an updated timeframe after the announcement showing full end-to-end experience running (which we expect to hit no later than tomorrow).

When you drop in with these updates you post with such conviction and confidence.

It is something that I can't quite describe through text, let's just say that reading what I quoted gives me an at ease feeling. It's like I'm positive this product is going to release and be kick as.s, dunno how to explain it lol.

Great update, thank you for all this thorough work & testing. Thanks for keeping us updated as well.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:51 PM - 12/15/13
(http://www.sourballpython.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/ItsAlive.jpg)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sledge_Hammer on 01:01 PM - 12/15/13
the small "Alpha" team is going to get the drop first.

So you had to hire the A-Team then?! I love it when a plan comes together.

@roads Ė Positive waves baby, positive waves!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 01:03 PM - 12/15/13
didn't you know? OBsIV real name is Macgyver, he always gets the Ateam for the betas on the days just before them betas.. i pity the fool who ever doubts OB.  ;D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:20 PM - 12/15/13
Quote
I'm not worried about these mysterious 4 bytes. If Sony was serious about encryption it wouldn't be that weak.

4 bit or 4 byte as 32bit encryption just seems right for a connection like this, as its fast enough. everything more would be overdone, no?
If someone gets it done its you, fingers crossed. 
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: GreyMouser on 02:49 PM - 12/15/13
Quote
I'm not worried about these mysterious 4 bytes. If Sony was serious about encryption it wouldn't be that weak.

If someone gets it done its you, fingers crossed. 

+1
Keeping hope alive. Thanks ObsIV!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Vad1m Ukra1ne on 11:53 PM - 12/15/13
Ohh Yeah!!!! soon we will enjoy new Xim  :)
(http://i41.tinypic.com/x41bn4.png)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: JerginsSoft on 06:26 AM - 12/16/13
didn't you know? OBsIV real name is Macgyver, he always gets the Ateam for the betas on the days just before them betas.. i pity the fool who ever doubts OB.  ;D

Lol, I know you're not american, and may not be a product of the 80's, so I'll forgive you for mashing those 2 shows together...
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 07:09 AM - 12/16/13
didn't you know? OBsIV real name is Macgyver, he always gets the A-team for the betas on the days just before them betas.. i pity the fool who ever doubts OB.  ;D

Lol, I know you're not American, and may not be a product of the 80's, so I'll forgive you for mashing those 2 shows together...

Yea I wasn't sure if he did that on purpose or not lol.

They should put those @#$% nickel plated Rugerģ Mini 14's that the A-Team always used in one of these FPS's hehe.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Chance on 07:18 AM - 12/16/13
Ohh Yeah!!!! soon we will enjoy new Xim  :)
(http://i41.tinypic.com/x41bn4.png)

XIM 9?  :o
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Boltman on 07:20 AM - 12/16/13
...
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 07:22 AM - 12/16/13
didn't you know? OBsIV real name is Macgyver, he always gets the Ateam for the betas on the days just before them betas.. i pity the fool who ever doubts OB.  ;D

Lol, I know you're not american, and may not be a product of the 80's, so I'll forgive you for mashing those 2 shows together...

what? i don't think you guys get it. Macgyver could build anything with nothing but scraps, a paper clip would let him hack a nuclear bomb together, he wouldn't need anything else. my point was to ride on '80s show reference and compare OB to Macgyver, because OB can build amazing things from "nothing".

and if you gotta pick a team for a beta might as well be the ATeam. i pitty the fool who's not sure about it now  ;D
(no one can beat Mr.T)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 07:23 AM - 12/16/13

XIM 9?  :o

i think he means XIM2 since square root of 4 is 2.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Chance on 07:47 AM - 12/16/13

XIM 9?  :o

i think he means XIM2 since square root of 4 is 2.

I read it as XIM VIV but the first V was probably something to split up XIM from the Roman numerals & it's meant to be XIM IV.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sledge_Hammer on 07:49 AM - 12/16/13
Always suspected OBsIV was actually MacGyver but didnít want to say anything until it was confirmed. Rumour has it heís made the phone interface for the new Xim out of a discarded polystyrene cup and an old shoelace. Donít tell Roads though, heíll be wanting it made from a titanium mug and violin wire instead  :D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 08:01 AM - 12/16/13
Lol  :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 08:57 AM - 12/16/13
I hear OBsIV made a CD player from nothing but chicken wire and a vibrator.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sledge_Hammer on 09:22 AM - 12/16/13
I hear OBsIV made a CD player from nothing but chicken wire and a vibrator.

When can we pre-order? And what type of batteries does the vibrator need?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PUBzZz on 09:24 AM - 12/16/13
So today is the day we hear an official announcement. Good way to kick off the week with some good news.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 09:57 AM - 12/16/13
Are you sure? Did he say Today? Nahhh.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 10:01 AM - 12/16/13
At least I reckon he said they will announce something today. Or release a video showing how things work, etc.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Cg13 on 10:02 AM - 12/16/13
I can't wait to see the new xim4, thanks for all the hard work obsiv!

Never did like sony!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 10:18 AM - 12/16/13
Guys nothing will happen today.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sgt8Bit on 10:37 AM - 12/16/13
Roads, I believe people are expecting to hear something today based on this quote:

...I'll provide an updated timeframe after the announcement showing full end-to-end experience running (which we expect to hit no later than tomorrow).

Whether Obsiv's timeframe slips from today or not is another story (which is what I think you were getting at, based on other slipped timeframes 'promised' by the great one)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 10:38 AM - 12/16/13
(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/199k4zto7u1x8gif/ku-xlarge.gif)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 10:43 AM - 12/16/13
for those that don't get the joke(or rather jokes, as that pic is more than 1), that's the XIM4. OB made it with paws so you don't even need to move or plug it, welcome to the future of user friendly ness.

Waterproof, so no more fear of spills and yellow fluids that could ruin your XIM.

onboard protection, nobody messes with my XIM.

Apple friendly (ps: hedgehogs actually like fruit) and i'm sure likes Penguins too so Linux is covered.
oh and loves Blackberries..

new meaning to Live editing too.

etc.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 10:46 AM - 12/16/13
It was short AK so I liked it.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Penitus Oculatus on 10:50 AM - 12/16/13
Nice to hear that progress is being made. Can we perhaps expect the Beta to be out before the end of January? I don't have any particular hurry for it, because I've only been using the XIM since September 2012, with all my experience before that being on a controller, so readjusting to the Xbox One controller wasn't hard. I'm Level 91 with a 2.05 K/D in Battlefield 4.

I guess it's because the aim assist in that game is ridiculous, though.

Nice hedgehog, too.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 10:52 AM - 12/16/13
Lvl91? the game has been out for like 2 months or so right? wt.f! where do you find the time?!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Penitus Oculatus on 11:22 AM - 12/16/13
Lvl91? the game has been out for like 2 months or so right? wt.f! where do you find the time?!
I actually didn't start playing until I got it on my Xbox One on the 22nd.

It's all due to the two Double XP events they had, plus the XP boosts they give you in the game, as well as the fact that I tend to get a lot of score every game. I've only got between 60-70 hours played.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 11:43 AM - 12/16/13
To be honest we expect the beta within the next two weeks.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sgt8Bit on 11:52 AM - 12/16/13
Seeing how things have progressed over the last month, I think two weeks is aggressive.  I was going through the "What we know about next gen XIM" thread and saw a quote from Obsiv dated 11/18 that said "We will be officially announcing the development of XIM4 in a couple of weeks".  A month has almost passed since then.

Supposedly the announcement is today.  But the "Alpha Team" needs to do it's thing, plus the Bluetooth dongle options need to be determined for the beta.  That means Obsiv will be buying some of the options we posted in the RC forums and testing them.  I don't see all of this being completed before the new year.  I would LOVE to be proven wrong....
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zacharybinx34 on 12:37 PM - 12/16/13
I thought the announcement was yesterday?

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 12:54 PM - 12/16/13
no there is still one problem that needs to be solved
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sgt8Bit on 12:56 PM - 12/16/13
Yesterday was the head's up to say "hey, we might announce today"....lol
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: damstr on 01:35 PM - 12/16/13
Dammit I have all my stuff now just need that beta to drop! Truly excited to see what the beta has to offer.

I was hoping it would hold me over for awhile but I have a feeling that as soon as I can pre order a XIM4 I will!

Also who is this "Alpha" team getting the first batch of XIM4's or is that classified? Lol
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sgt8Bit on 01:39 PM - 12/16/13
Hannibal, Face, BA Baracus and Murdock
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:46 PM - 12/16/13
he will make us a Christmas gift this year, I know it.

(http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/anything-can-be-worn-20.jpg?w=762&h=1017)

best pullover I have ever seen
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: PS3_UK on 02:22 PM - 12/16/13
To be honest we expect the beta within the next two weeks.

Is this a timetable which anyone from the XIM team has put in a post anywhere, or just your own personal expectation? :)

I meant that as a serious question, btw. :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 02:30 PM - 12/16/13
Lol again roads.  :-*
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:32 PM - 12/16/13
Its my estimate. "what do you think we did the last six months" and "playing on the xim4 right now" indicates stuff is already done. Now Obsiv is very fast. Making room on the old interface and connecting it should be done soon. He waited for orbital from his side. Orb had the hard part of the job. So if there is no holiday he is doing like Thanksgiving then yeah a week of Alpha and monkey and its here.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 02:35 PM - 12/16/13
I absolutely need that pullover btw its amazing. 
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: slackchain on 03:18 PM - 12/16/13
Christmas time is a money maker!!! XIM4 is on the top of my Christmas list!!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: lh82p on 03:33 PM - 12/16/13
I absolutely need that pullover btw its amazing.

So you need this pullover more then the Xim beta / xim4 ? ;)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: nobodyfamous on 03:34 PM - 12/16/13
Hannibal, Face, BA Baracus and Murdock

***note to self dont piss off those guys! lol
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 03:37 PM - 12/16/13
I absolutely need that pullover btw its amazing.

So you need this pullover more then the Xim beta / xim4 ? ;)

no its meanwhile
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 10:59 AM - 12/17/13
To be honest we expect the beta within the next two weeks.

And that's the goal. The system is running end-to-end now, on X1, wireless config -- it's amazing! Orbital is continuing to work on BT robustness/stability and I am going to be releasing info about it probably tomorrow. Then, I'll be working on getting the beta out while Orbital goes back to investigating PS4. And, I'm hoping Omgsus has time to take on the iOS port -- he is a busy person, but, maybe he will be able to. :)

After seeing it run end-to-end, we must get this running on PS4. It would be a shame otherwise.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sgt8Bit on 11:02 AM - 12/17/13
Thanks Obsiv!  Great news.  The PS4 folks would be ecstatic if you got it running (which I'm sure you guys will be able to do).

Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: McNappa on 11:08 AM - 12/17/13
To be honest we expect the beta within the next two weeks.

And that's the goal. The system is running end-to-end now, on X1, wireless config -- it's amazing! Orbital is continuing to work on BT robustness/stability and I am going to be releasing info about it probably tomorrow. Then, I'll be working on getting the beta out while Orbital goes back to investigating PS4. And, I'm hoping Omgsus has time to take on the iOS port -- he is a busy person, but, maybe he will be able to. :)

After seeing it run end-to-end, we must get this running on PS4. It would be a shame otherwise.
You the man.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Neildo on 11:11 AM - 12/17/13
we must get this running on PS4. It would be a shame otherwise.

Very Great news !! thx ObsIV !!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 11:14 AM - 12/17/13
Obsiv thatís a lot of good news, OMGsus porting to IOS is maybe the best.
I am trying to be optimistic about the PS4 as I got mine today but there are a lot of firms that stand before that closed door. I looked for a remote that can control the PS4 and read that the Harmony Ultimate also cant make it happen right now. Now I consider Logitech a firm with a know-how somewhat beyond all KBAM device makers.
Harmony Ultimate something to put on the list btw. Itís the sofa emperor.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sgt8Bit on 11:34 AM - 12/17/13
Obsiv,

Can you reiterate your timeframes for everyone's benefit on the forum.  As Mist mentioned in another post, forums members pull all sorts of crazy info based on one sentence of text you write.

Here's what I've gathered, please correct me:


Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 11:51 AM - 12/17/13
Obsiv thatís a lot of good news, OMGsus porting to IOS is maybe the best.
I am trying to be optimistic about the PS4 as I got mine today but there are a lot of firms that stand before that closed door. I looked for a remote that can control the PS4 and read that the Harmony Ultimate also cant make it happen right now. Now I consider Logitech a firm with a know-how somewhat beyond all KBAM device makers.
Harmony Ultimate something to put on the list btw. Itís the sofa emperor.

indeed but their resources working on that support are rather low despite being such a big firm, the difference is they are professionals paid to do nothing more than solving this kind of issue for a living. Logitech also has time as PS4s sold atm are not such a big number that their mouths would be foaming to get a bite into..

you can get some limited functionality if your TV is compliant with that commands over HDMI protocols. it has a different name for each brand, Sony calls it Bravia Sync for their products. this lets your TV control the PS4, it's very limited i know but lets you navigate menus etc.. hope it helps somewhat.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 11:59 AM - 12/17/13
oh and Roads, for reference, their future products made for PS4/console use (wheels and whatnot) will be able to make use of the Sony licensing product so they will get the know-how involved in whatever is necessary to get a device to work on PS4 from that. but their existing products are the only issue they would face as there is limitations to what you can do with software and cost-return decisions to face.

seeing as how Sony wants to previous products to all be obsolete on PS4 and how 3rd partys like Logictech like selling new products instead of "wasting money" on updating old one's, i think they will like Sony's policy very much as they can make Sony look like the bad guy that drove them into a wall and they now are forced to sell people their latest and greatest at premium price (win-win for them)

TLDR: i think Harmony will be their only "old" product that will get PS4 support. could be wrong obviously as i'm just deducing things from looks and i'm not the least bit informed about what goes on on Logitech.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zenigame96 on 12:02 PM - 12/17/13
Obsiv thatís a lot of good news, OMGsus porting to IOS is maybe the best.
I am trying to be optimistic about the PS4 as I got mine today but there are a lot of firms that stand before that closed door. I looked for a remote that can control the PS4 and read that the Harmony Ultimate also cant make it happen right now. Now I consider Logitech a firm with a know-how somewhat beyond all KBAM device makers.
Harmony Ultimate something to put on the list btw. Itís the sofa emperor.

indeed but their resources working on that support are rather low despite being such a big firm, the difference is they are professionals paid to do nothing more than solving this kind of issue for a living. Logitech also has time as PS4s sold atm are not such a big number that their mouths would be foaming to get a bite into..

you can get some limited functionality if your TV is compliant with that commands over HDMI protocols. it has a different name for each brand, Sony calls it Bravia Sync for their products. this lets your TV control the PS4, it's very limited i know but lets you navigate menus etc.. hope it helps somewhat.

It also allows the PS4 to control the TV, but I'm assuming that was a given... My PS4 automatically powers my TV on and off, and switches inputs appropriately as well. It's really pretty cool.

Granted the XBONE does this as well. Not sure how they set that up since it's not a Sony product but I'm guessing the HDMI signals would be the same, so Microsoft probably just put the functionality in the console since they want it to be the center of home entertainment.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 12:04 PM - 12/17/13
I actually didn't start playing until I got it on my Xbox One on the 22nd.

It's all due to the two Double XP events they had, plus the XP boosts they give you in the game, as well as the fact that I tend to get a lot of score every game. I've only got between 60-70 hours played.

oh with what you said i can do the math and it really makes sense now but you still need to be doing a good job, so still "gg wp". also to your credit 60-70 in about a month is still a very good number, surprised me still given how much people complain about stability in BF4.


whenever i play vehicle maps or even Rush my points per minute starve in comparison to the banquets TDM on certain maps provide. making points per minute in BF4 on Pubs playing lone wolf (teamplay or not) is still something demanding some good brains  ;D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 12:11 PM - 12/17/13
It also allows the PS4 to control the TV, but I'm assuming that was a given... My PS4 automatically powers my TV on and off, and switches inputs appropriately as well. It's really pretty cool.

Granted the XBONE does this as well. Not sure how they set that up since it's not a Sony product but I'm guessing the HDMI signals would be the same, so Microsoft probably just put the functionality in the console since they want it to be the center of home entertainment.

control over HDMI is a standard protocol, nor Sony nor MS would ever consider not dipping their fingers on that. like i said, it's a standard so any firm can use it as they please "easily" but unlike wireless or Bluetooth they all call it something different rather than all calling it for it's real name.

think how Apple called Thunderbolt instead of the name Intel gave the tech at birth (granted they made it together actually but it's still Intel's child more than Apple's). this kind of rebranding is done for marketing reasons as for laymans it's easier to sell "hey this TV has Bravia Sync" than "hey this TV is capable of utilising a HDMI control protocol to command other devices " ;D doesn't even matter if people know what Bravia Sync is, they see it "and it sounds nice so must be a good TV and others don't have it" LOL


my PS3 has been doing what you describe for a long time and some times i can tell you there are situations where the control is annoying and i've had it off. a good thing is that the control is "smart" enough to don't turn my TV on when the PS wakes up for background downloads and that kind of stuff and the TV doesn't go off immediately after ordering the console to shut down as normally i just change input to the PC HDMI.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 12:13 PM - 12/17/13
fu*k i bet i just made roads angry because of so many words in so little place and about so little discussed. you won't like when roads is angry....
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:18 PM - 12/17/13
No I feel good since I skip everything that has more than 5 rows you write. Not kidding.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Joker76 on 12:42 PM - 12/17/13
No I feel good since I skip everything that has more than 5 rows you write. Not kidding.

I pretty much skip everything he writes, and anyone else who writes more than 5 rows too. Unless it's ObsIV. ;)

This is just from his last 4 posts (paragraphs was actually 7, apparently Word sucks at counting paragraphs);

(http://i.imgur.com/2774y2wl.jpg)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zacharybinx34 on 12:48 PM - 12/17/13
To be honest we expect the beta within the next two weeks.

And that's the goal. The system is running end-to-end now, on X1, wireless config -- it's amazing! Orbital is continuing to work on BT robustness/stability and I am going to be releasing info about it probably tomorrow. Then, I'll be working on getting the beta out while Orbital goes back to investigating PS4. And, I'm hoping Omgsus has time to take on the iOS port -- he is a busy person, but, maybe he will be able to. :)

After seeing it run end-to-end, we must get this running on PS4. It would be a shame otherwise.

Does this mean XIM4 is delayed now further for PS4 support?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sgt8Bit on 12:51 PM - 12/17/13
This will not hold up the beta (most important thing for me personally atm).

Whether this holds up the official XIM4 release?  Unknown.  The timeframe was 1Q 2014 release, so that leaves lots of time to get PS4 up and running and XIM4 released by that timeframe. 
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 01:17 PM - 12/17/13
No I feel good since I skip everything that has more than 5 rows you write. Not kidding.

your loss. my first 2 sets of 3 lines are just for you and the 2nd set of 3lines is something you can find really useful xP
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zenigame96 on 01:19 PM - 12/17/13
Well I don't want to spam the thread with too much off-topic posting but:

my PS3 has been doing what you describe for a long time

PS3 HDMI control? Gonna have to look into that. I wonder why it's never been enabled on my consoles :P

In regards to the question about whether the beta/xim4/ps4 support/etc has been delayed, I'm sure OBsIV would be straight with us if any "delays" were worth noting. Enjoy the tech you have now and look forward to what the genius brings forth, as I'm sure within the next few months we'll all be gaming our hearts out on next gen consoles. :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: CUBIC1 on 01:38 PM - 12/17/13
Great job guys

But if the beta is not up in this week or after I t will be bad cuz xim team will not work on it in the christmas

For now I will use my cronusmax and forget about the beta even if its out till

xim4 is out
we all looking to the xim4    :P
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 02:58 PM - 12/17/13
can orbital do some posts in the forum when tackling when tackling the PS4?
hes been sort of quiet lately, and i would like to know about its progress ;)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: damstr on 03:03 PM - 12/17/13
I really hope the beta is out before Christmas but I understand why Obsiv would want to wait till it's 100%.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Od1n on 03:07 PM - 12/17/13
because it most likely will grab attention just like the cronus device did when they made their video public
you want to show off something worthy rather than some buggy stuff when the press media is looking into it

my guess
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: amak1 on 03:16 PM - 12/17/13
Yep its gonna be good... thanks for the update obsiv, looks like you guys pretty much have your ducks in a row. Can't wait.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: TwistedDNA on 03:17 PM - 12/17/13
To be honest we expect the beta within the next two weeks.

And that's the goal. The system is running end-to-end now, on X1, wireless config -- it's amazing! Orbital is continuing to work on BT robustness/stability and I am going to be releasing info about it probably tomorrow. Then, I'll be working on getting the beta out while Orbital goes back to investigating PS4. And, I'm hoping Omgsus has time to take on the iOS port -- he is a busy person, but, maybe he will be able to. :)

After seeing it run end-to-end, we must get this running on PS4. It would be a shame otherwise.

Awesome news! I assume the beta is available to everyone?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 04:30 PM - 12/17/13
Awesome news! I assume the beta is available to everyone?

will be.

Well I don't want to spam the thread with too much off-topic posting but:

my PS3 has been doing what you describe for a long time

PS3 HDMI control? Gonna have to look into that. I wonder why it's never been enabled on my consoles :P

i had 2 Sony HDTVs, one is what i use now that's in the sig. on the first i never got it to work as now and i guess the TV itself didn't have some of the functionality but i really don't know i tried to mess with it twice or so and really didn't give a rat's behind LOL

on this one however i had the kind of chance happening that brought us most of the inventions/discoveries in history. at first i turned it on in the TV, forgot it was off on PS3. got distracted, forgot about it. then i had it on on PS3 and off on TV and was complaining that it didn't work, yeah nice going idiot i thought and got distracted again in the process of correcting it. i had it on for a while but then got annoyed by some specific function and turned it off. this year or so i turned it on and left it there..

it's nice that the input changes alone as long as i remember that, as i have the habit of turning the PS on 5 minutes before i mean to actually go do something with it..PS4 boots up a lot quicker though. it's what i like most, that and the fact i can use the TV remote to go around since my controller is sometimes in annoying places and i just want to roam menus or something, or the batteries are dead and i'm too lazy to take a foot out of the bed to get the cable from the PC's hub to charge it..  ;D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Zenigame96 on 05:56 PM - 12/17/13

i had 2 Sony HDTVs, one is what i use now that's in the sig. on the first i never got it to work as now and i guess the TV itself didn't have some of the functionality but i really don't know i tried to mess with it twice or so and really didn't give a rat's behind LOL

on this one however i had the kind of chance happening that brought us most of the inventions/discoveries in history. at first i turned it on in the TV, forgot it was off on PS3. got distracted, forgot about it. then i had it on on PS3 and off on TV and was complaining that it didn't work, yeah nice going idiot i thought and got distracted again in the process of correcting it. i had it on for a while but then got annoyed by some specific function and turned it off. this year or so i turned it on and left it there..

it's nice that the input changes alone as long as i remember that, as i have the habit of turning the PS on 5 minutes before i mean to actually go do something with it..PS4 boots up a lot quicker though. it's what i like most, that and the fact i can use the TV remote to go around since my controller is sometimes in annoying places and i just want to roam menus or something, or the batteries are dead and i'm too lazy to take a foot out of the bed to get the cable from the PC's hub to charge it..  ;D

I'm not sure how to navigate with the remote, but that sounds beautiful. I'll have to give it a shot. It makes sense it never worked on my first Sony (40" 2007...I think) but I upgraded a few months ago so this one should definitely have all that functionality. I'm a little excited. I like projects like these haha.

And yes, it's been stated many times that the beta will be open to everybody. (Not trying to be condescending with that last sentence so please don't think that lol :))
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: OBsIV on 02:13 AM - 12/18/13
can orbital do some posts in the forum when tackling when tackling the PS4?
hes been sort of quiet lately, and i would like to know about its progress ;)

He is heads-down on all this stuff. I do nag him a lot though. :)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: 3MIX_Edge on 02:17 AM - 12/18/13

...And, I'm hoping Omgsus has time to take on the iOS port -- he is a busy person, but, maybe he will be able to. :)

Forgive my ignorance but will we be seeing Android support for the Xim4 upon release?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: izzy on 02:26 AM - 12/18/13


Forgive my ignorance but will we be seeing Android support for the Xim4 upon release?

Of course.

 Android and windows gets supported first.
Then ios and others follow
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: 3MIX_Edge on 02:43 AM - 12/18/13
Best news I've had all day!
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: saint72 on 05:02 AM - 12/18/13
Quote
After seeing it run end-to-end, we must get this running on PS4. It would be a shame otherwise.

Best news I heard in ages!!  ;D
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: nobodyfamous on 08:22 AM - 12/18/13
can orbital do some posts in the forum when tackling when tackling the PS4?
hes been sort of quiet lately, and i would like to know about its progress ;)

He is heads-down on all this stuff. I do nag him a lot though. :)

I kno your doing the ps4 wireless, but for xbone its wired connections like xim3 edge correct? I really hope so
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Loki on 08:51 AM - 12/18/13
can orbital do some posts in the forum when tackling when tackling the PS4?
hes been sort of quiet lately, and i would like to know about its progress ;)

He is heads-down on all this stuff. I do nag him a lot though. :)

I kno your doing the ps4 wireless, but for xbone its wired connections like xim3 edge correct? I really hope so

+1

I think they did say it would be wired, at least I hope so.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 09:07 AM - 12/18/13
Why should he make himself more work for a probably lagging connection? I would like this as option if technically possible if the PS4 goes wireless with the XIM4. Full wireless XIM, would be interesting.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: damstr on 09:27 AM - 12/18/13
Wasn't there suppose to be some video released 2 days ago showing off the XIM4?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 09:38 AM - 12/18/13
No ETA for announcement.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: nobodyfamous on 09:39 AM - 12/18/13
Why should he make himself more work for a probably lagging connection? I would like this as option if technically possible if the PS4 goes wireless with the XIM4. Full wireless XIM, would be interesting.

Jesus roads it was a simple question thats all, i hear about ppl buying bts and dongles i just hope that isnt for xbone is wired, i enjoy everything wired
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 09:43 AM - 12/18/13
What Jesus roads, was a simple answer. I am meaning it, he is not coding a single useless line so yes the ONE will be wired for sure.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: thebside on 11:41 AM - 12/18/13
Jesus roads

I think nobodyfamous sees you as a deity.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:04 PM - 12/18/13
Sure..

OK I am getting ahead of Obsiv and I show you the design of the XIM4. Her it is. Its secret so dont tell anyone.

(http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/blowyourmind.gif?w=345&h=194)
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 12:13 PM - 12/18/13
so if i buy a XIM4 it will spawn seeds and make a bunch of miniXIM4s? WOW mind = blown! now all my friends will have a XIM4 after some time with care and watering..
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 12:14 PM - 12/18/13
Itís the BT antenna it opens, silly.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 12:22 PM - 12/18/13
Itís the BT antenna it opens, silly.

OH! D'OH! that makes sense! 30m range confirmed, XIM4 will work on neighbours PS4, a new mode of Remote play awaits.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Santigold on 01:11 PM - 12/18/13
its probably under best circumstances in an open outdoor area, where the temperature is right and air humidity and like 10 other things.

In real world scenario its prolly more like 2-3 meters.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: roads on 01:16 PM - 12/18/13
I agree but Obsiv says its superior to Wifi. It does not fit my experience but for phone to XIM  it will be enough.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: damstr on 01:43 PM - 12/18/13
I know we are still waiting to hear back about the Bluetooth adapter but is there a certain USB hub that we need or will any usb 2.0/3.0 hub work?
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 01:44 PM - 12/18/13
i was joking sacnti, BT's range is 10m on average best case scenario, this without major obstructions like walls.

roads BT > wifi by far for this kind of use and short distances.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: ak-xs on 01:45 PM - 12/18/13
I know we are still waiting to hear back about the Bluetooth adapter but is there a certain USB hub that we need or will any usb 2.0/3.0 hub work?

any really. at least as far as it has been discussed. should anything be required OB would have said so.. i'm not really in the mood to dig a quote, but i do think there is one.
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: Sgt8Bit on 02:22 PM - 12/18/13
A few weeks ago, I started a thread asking this exact question:

http://www.xim3.com/community/index.php?topic=29674.msg367029#msg367029 (http://www.xim3.com/community/index.php?topic=29674.msg367029#msg367029)

Obsiv's immediate response was "We will give recommendations when we are closer to the beta." 

Not sure if this means there are specific USB hubs that can be used or not....
Title: Re: RC Testers: Need your help
Post by: gibkeeg on 03:09 PM - 12/18/13
GOOD NEWS!!!

Turns out the 4byte hash/checksum is just CRC32 with a standard initial value.  This should be fairly easy to tackle.    Credit goes to Matlo from GIMX (http://blog.gimx.fr/) for figuring that out.    The futu