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Miscellaneous => XIM 2 => Legacy Devices => XIM 2 Discussions => Topic started by: 1nfinitum on 11:06 PM - 12/03/08

Title: The XIM2 video prospective buyers have been waiting for!
Post by: 1nfinitum on 11:06 PM - 12/03/08
ALAS!  I've done it!


CoD4 footage in 720p (or close to it) on YOUTUBE of all things :)

http://www.youtube.com/v/M9SU01_KINQ&hl=en&fs=1&ap=%2526fmt%3D22

Update #43: Overall, YouTube pulled off better quality in the videos, and I'll be using it from now on.  Also it didn't double the time of my video and play the sound over again to a still picture!  Yay!..?
Title: Re: The XIM2 video prospective buyers have been waiting for!
Post by: Xevin on 11:52 PM - 12/03/08
I freeking LOVE the PIP of your mousing. It makes all the video mean SOOOO much more. It really answered a few long standing questions I've had about the XIM2. I would very much like to see more COD4 footage. Any of the desert levels in multiplayer would be fantastic! I play COD4 on the PC a ton, so I can relate to it much easier then Halo 3. I can't wait to finally get a XIM2 and mop the floor with all my friends in Halo 3. They laughed at my utter lack of controller skills, but they will suffer the wrath of my mousing!!!
Title: Re: The XIM2 video prospective buyers have been waiting for!
Post by: OBsIV on 12:07 AM - 12/04/08
I agree about the PIP! Awesome video!
Title: Re: The XIM2 video prospective buyers have been waiting for!
Post by: 1nfinitum on 12:23 AM - 12/04/08
Thanks for the feedback :)  I'm going to try and perfect the 720p technique used in the YouTube video down there..  But at the moment it's a tough one to edit the M2TS files in Vegas so if OMGsus ever decides to get online he can tell me what he does or what he uses to edit the M2TS files.  Also compression is horrible and takes FOREVER.  Gotta ask him what codec he uses and his settings.

(If you're reading this, hurry up and contact me man, I've been dying to talk to you so I can get past these limitations.  It's a real pain, I had to edit the majority of that video with the HD track invisible just so it wouldn't crash vegas :()

http://www.youtube.com/v/aUyyx6qiEfI&hl=en&fs=1&ap=%2526fmt%3D22
Title: Re: The XIM2 video prospective buyers have been waiting for!
Post by: PhilAshio on 01:39 AM - 12/04/08
Wouldn't have noticed the PIP if it wasn't mentioned, that's pretty awesome. The quality of the videos is great as well.
Title: Re: The XIM2 video prospective buyers have been waiting for!
Post by: tweak on 02:16 AM - 12/04/08
I'd recommend one of two things.

A) Find a way to put a hacked copy of OS X on your machine so you can run Final Cut Pro.
B) Edit with Avid instead.

Either of those solutions is better than using the crap Sony software...both are more industry "standard" in terms of NLEs.
Title: Re: The XIM2 video prospective buyers have been waiting for!
Post by: 1nfinitum on 02:25 AM - 12/04/08
I actually like Vegas, and its the only editing software that will open M2TS from what I hear.  Adobe wont, and if Final Cut Pro was made with any logic, then it wont either.  Furthermore, unfortunately the HD PVR can only capture in M2TS or TS, both of which are $ony file formats.  And to my knowledge it only runs on windows.

Converting is a lengthy process for HD videos (just converting the 29sec video above took about seven and a half minutes.  I'll likely be working with LOTS of video and batch converting it all will take hours and hours if not days.  So I'd like to be able to stick with the dumps it makes, unless I can find a third party software able to make dumps in a different format (VLC/VDub/Dscaler, none of these work.)  I'm going to have to stick with Vegas for the time being :(

EDIT:  Just looked it up.  Looks like Avid has no support for M2TS files. :(
Title: Re: The XIM2 video prospective buyers have been waiting for!
Post by: Jesuslegs on 08:06 AM - 12/04/08
Cool.

Is it possible for someone to aim in hexagons, traingles, figure 8's, circles, squares, etc all in one video one after the other? This would be a way of demonstrating tracking and aiming I guess.
Title: Re: The XIM2 video prospective buyers have been waiting for!
Post by: nickstudy on 09:10 AM - 12/04/08
  Also compression is horrible and takes FOREVER. 
http://www.youtube.com/v/aUyyx6qiEfI&hl=en&fs=1&ap=%2526fmt%3D22

This can take a while, on my quad it's takes a while for 1080P video for 30 minutes. On my supercomputer (well, it's a mini super computer has 20 cores in it with 20 gigs of ram from a company called TYAN) that thing will rip 1080p hour video in less time that it takes to get a glass a water and take a leak (I know, ive timed it hehe) but a regular quad core will be substantially more time. You can always set up a server farm using a bunch of mixed machines within server 2003 to handle the task as well, which will be pretty snappy as well. Yes, I realize most people cannot do this, but anyone with a few computers that are older laying around could get a 180 trial of 2003 or 08 server and do it themselves. As you get more machines, you simply drop them into the farm and make them part of the pool to increase the speed.

If anyone is interested on what codecs to use, how to set it up etc it's really quite fun and you learn alot in the process. You don't need super powered computers either, if you have a single core p4 laying around with 512 ram (something around 2+ ghz) and you got a couple of them you can do it easy.

On a last note, nice video - I really intended something like that, but once my drive array failed I lost 85% of all the video I made, and past photos and videos and other documents that put my current research very very behind and I have still not recovered yet. This video is GREAT, I really like the overhead and I am glad the xim community is coming together and demonstrating this. I promised a video and sadly I could not deliver and I apologize for that. This is awesome, keep it up!

Title: Re: The XIM2 video prospective buyers have been waiting for!
Post by: miraged on 11:21 AM - 12/04/08
I'd recommend one of two things.

A) Find a way to put a hacked copy of OS X on your machine so you can run Final Cut Pro.
B) Edit with Avid instead.

Either of those solutions is better than using the crap Sony software...both are more industry "standard" in terms of NLEs.

Both may be great but you have to compare what you want really need. Nobody would get Photoshop just to remove red eyes...

Same here, nobody really needs FCP or Avid just to cut/edit a simple XIM2 demonstration clip, thats pretty over the top. Also most likely he doesnt have Avid/or even OSX and the time hes gonna spend learning them (or even getting them to run first) is better invested in a common video editor. (Avid isnt really intuitive from its handling, I really hated it and FCP is quite nice but the countless hours you spend on getting a Hackintosh running are better invested in for example Adobe Premiere CS4, it will just faster bring you the same/similiar results)

I actually like Vegas, and its the only editing software that will open M2TS from what I hear.  Adobe wont, and if Final Cut Pro was made with any logic, then it wont either.  Furthermore, unfortunately the HD PVR can only capture in M2TS or TS, both of which are $ony file formats.  And to my knowledge it only runs on windows.

Converting is a lengthy process for HD videos (just converting the 29sec video above took about seven and a half minutes.  I'll likely be working with LOTS of video and batch converting it all will take hours and hours if not days.  So I'd like to be able to stick with the dumps it makes, unless I can find a third party software able to make dumps in a different format (VLC/VDub/Dscaler, none of these work.)  I'm going to have to stick with Vegas for the time being :(

So you got the Hauppauge HD PVP,if I am not wrong the new Adobe Premiere CS4 supports .ts finally.

http://help.adobe.com/en_US/PremierePro/4.0/WS01FCC81E-8CF6-437a-AAD7-A2D8F9175BF0a.html

I dont have CS4 otherwise I would have tested it.



Do you use any special settings for the youtube uploads? I recently uploaded a 720p testclick to youtube but it was displayed in 4:3 and looked like @#$%.

And your uploads with hd settings look quite awesome (never thought I would say  that about youtube).
Title: Re: The XIM2 video prospective buyers have been waiting for!
Post by: tweak on 11:32 AM - 12/04/08
My bad, I thought you got a better HD capture card.  Sorry! ^^
Title: Re: The XIM2 video prospective buyers have been waiting for!
Post by: miraged on 12:04 PM - 12/04/08
Better than 1080i, eh yeah right ;)!?
Title: Re: The XIM2 video prospective buyers have been waiting for!
Post by: Juncti on 01:19 PM - 12/04/08
I'm going to add this to the top of the video sticky.

Could you do another one? Perhaps a whole level or something? Would be nice to have a longer one showing more interaction.

I've been planning on trying to do this for a while but haven't pulled it off yet, so great work.
Title: Re: The XIM2 video prospective buyers have been waiting for!
Post by: 1nfinitum on 05:15 PM - 12/04/08
No problem!  Thanks for all the support guys!  I'm going to see if I can find a trial of Adobe Premiere CS4 and if it can handle TS files with finesse (very much unlike Vegas) then I'll start learning it for future videos.

Also, Jesuslegs brings up a great point.  I'm not going to go ahead right away and make a long video of a whole level or something like that.  People don't like watching long, boring vids.  They want to spend a minute or two, five tops if it's really interesting, you know what I mean?  So I'm going to try and go more for quantity than length so there's more of a selection instead of just a few long clips of the same thing.

But I think the next thing I'll do is record myself doing my best to make a circle, square, etc. it seems like a good idea and it shouldn't take too long.  I'll get started on it right away, so expect some updates soon! :)

EDIT:  Sorry I forgot to mention, somebody had asked about the settings I used for YouTube.  That particular file was actually just 1280x720 video compressed in Divx (actually at 9000kbps since it was so short, it only came out to about 30 megs.)  You have to make sure you add &fmt=22 onto the end of the video URL though or it wont come out in HD (&fmt=22 forces the highest resolution YouTube has of that video to be streamed, which in some cases is even higher than their "Click to watch in High Quality" link.)
Title: Re: The XIM2 video prospective buyers have been waiting for!
Post by: DrCube on 07:54 PM - 12/04/08
Excellent work. Thanks for putting this together. More please.
Title: Re: The XIM2 video prospective buyers have been waiting for!
Post by: Xevin on 11:04 AM - 12/05/08
Video editing... hehe! Now yall are in my neck of the woods...

Rendering is slow. Get used to it, or get a faster computer/more computers. The NLE is normally not the problem here. Sorry for stating the harsh truth. =(

HDCAM, VCPRO HD, XDCAM HD, HDV and AVCHD are all fairly new formats so all the software NLEs are still catching up. M2TS is a Sony format that contains an AVCHD stream. It's also why it works on Sony Vegas Pro only. I've found that almost all AVCHD containers work better with Vegas more so then any other NLE. I don't know why you are experiencing crashing. If your computer is behind the times, you may want to look into something called "Proxy Editing". Post your computer specs.

Over the years I've tried out a ton of different NLEs; both hard and soft. Here's my sum of things:

Adobe Premiere. Used it for 7 years. A great program that can do just about everything you want it to. Only has a few drawbacks in the compositing side of things. (which is what After Effects is for anyways) Slow as dead snails. Crashes often, so for the love of gawd save often! Has enough features to allow you to complete a project without ever leaving the software. Other great Adobe products make Premiere even better.

Final Cut Pro. Most overrated NLE ever. It was like Premiere, only slower, crashed more often, utterly unable to accept any other file formats other then Macs own happy format, and the thing couldn't do any sort of compositing out of the box. I still do not understand why so many people/studios like this software... Maybe because it gives you the illusion of "easy to use" by taking away "complicated" features? It FORCES you to use so many other pieces of software to complete your project that it is not a complete NLE solution out of the box IMO. This was 5 years ago and again 3 years ago that I tried to use it on a maxed out G4 and G5 respectively. Maybe they have changed their ways since then... Either way, I made two people very happy on eBay.

Sony Vegas Pro. Once you become accustomed to using outside software to complete advanced effect shots, this NLE is the best for straight editing. It is easily the fastest NLE out there both rendering and basic editing. Has network rendering for those that have farms (yay for me!). It can accept a huge array of formats. Extremely stable and has an autosaving feature that actually works!! Also has great post-crash saving and recovery. The very best of sound editing systems built into the program (based off of Acid Pro/Sound Forge! Easy foley... finally.) Single computer rendering is a bit slower then some other solutions I've seen, but throw 32 3GHz cores at it and it'll beat em all! If you can't tell, this is what currently we use at our studios.

Avid. Anything from these guys costs wads of money. Has less problems (maybe even none whatsoever). Does only what they tell you it can do. Only uses the formats they tell you it can use. Is very fast, if not realtime. Good hardware/software, but not worth the extreme cost IMO.

Products from Matrox, Canopus and most other hardware based NLEs pretty much follow Avid's theme. Fast, Stable, Limited features, Extremely expensive. If you work with live video, these are your ONLY option. If you are post editing, stick with Vegas Pro or Premiere.

All the statements above are based on my personal experiences with the said products both hardware and software. If you have opinions other then mine, Awesome. If your opinions are the same as me, STOP COPYING ME! GET OUT OF MY HEAD! LALALALALA! I'M STUPID! HA! MADE YOU SAY YOU ARE STUPID!
Title: Re: The XIM2 video prospective buyers have been waiting for!
Post by: 1nfinitum on 12:01 PM - 12/05/08
Wow, that was excellent!  Thank you! :)  If I have any questions in the future, I'll be sure to ask you, so far you've been the most helpful out of about 3 or 4 people who gave me any advice.  It's comforting to finally find someone who really knows what they're talking about and has experience with almost everything available :)

I think I stated earlier though, that somebody had mentioned that Premiere Pro CS4 now supports TS, so I looked it up and it does support TS..  Kind of..  It supports M2TS, and TS isn't supported at all...  Which is GREAT, because the PVR dumps to both TS and M2TS! :)  Unfortunately, though, I already recorded my next test clip in TS so I'm encoding it with the same codec/resolution I used on that YouTube video so I can use it in Premiere Pro CS4..  And it is taking forever.  It's times like this I wish I had access to a cluster.  There's really nothing good on TV and Gears of War 2 online is boring because I suck at it :(

So it's a waiting game now.  Let's hope M2TS works nicely in CS4 so I can get this stuff done and out to you guys much quicker.  In addition, I might get a higher quality web cam soon (suggestions would be nice) as I'm using the Xbox Live Vision cam right now and it's pretty crappy.  In addition, I've had an idea for a half webcam/half in-game internet series in my head for a little while now...  I don't want to spend too much, but I want good quality.  HD is a plus, but not required.

Back on topic now, ;D Vegas (8) had gotten to the point where it wasn't responding anymore for minutes at a time..  Eventually I suppose if I left it, it would come to, but it was doing this every time I would skip through the time line on the HD video.  Sad really, but life moves on.  I've heard good things about Premiere Pro so maybe that's the better path, even though I've become accustomed to Vegas' interface and options, that's only anywhere from 3-5 videos of experience in Vegas.  Premiere Pro is kind of intimidating but the last version I tried was Pre-CS I believe and I didn't use it because it could load an .avi file (AN AVI FILE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD,) so I dropped it.

Again, though, thank you.  You answered a few questions I've had about the different editors for a while (especially Final Cut Pro, I always knew it had to be crap because a video editing suite simply can't be "simple.")

EDIT:  Oh, and, my specs aren't exactly "low-tech."  But I'll list the important ones anyway.

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 (2.4GHz/core)
nVidia 8800GTX (768MB)
4GB DDR2 400 RAM (Still running x86 so it should technically be running at 3GB w/ 1GB for kernel)
And of course, oodles of HD space (Adding up to almost 1.5TB, 1TB of which is Raid 0) which I, ironically, really need to clean up :P
Title: Re: The XIM2 video prospective buyers have been waiting for!
Post by: nacitar on 12:32 PM - 12/05/08
Just saying.. he isn't kidding about premiere.  It's great, but you better get used to CTRL-S.. because that @#$% crashes like crazy.  It'll work all great, and you'll get your timeline all set up, then BAM, crash.. start over.  But not is you ctrl-s after every change like I do.
Title: Re: The XIM2 video prospective buyers have been waiting for!
Post by: miraged on 02:22 PM - 12/05/08
Strange never had APP, not a single crash xD.

Anyway your system is IMHO enough for a "normal" home user cutting system (kinda like mine :D).

Thanks for the comment about your youtube quality settings.
Title: Re: The XIM2 video prospective buyers have been waiting for!
Post by: Omen on 02:33 PM - 12/05/08
awesome vid...makes me want a xim2 that much more.  i have been without my mouse and keyboard for too long!
Title: Re: The XIM2 video prospective buyers have been waiting for!
Post by: 1nfinitum on 03:15 PM - 12/05/08
Yeah, it's not top of the line, but it's good enough to run all the newest games on high settings comfortably.
Title: Re: The XIM2 video prospective buyers have been waiting for!
Post by: Xevin on 08:26 PM - 12/05/08
That crashing you are describing sounds a lot like file access issues. The video stream is not being sent at a high enough rate for the editor to scrubb. You are not trying to edit it off a thumb drive or something right? Try moving the files to a hard drive that is not in use normally so it will have the fastest access time possible. For editing HD content we decided to move up to WD Velociraptor drives for our editing machines. The scrubb time was more then we are used to, so we needed every bit of extra access speed that we could get. HD editing is now equal to or faster then SD editing was for us.

Converting from one format to another is a long and annoying process. Try using ffmpeg next time. Its extremely fast, but its command line based, so a bit tricky to use. For TS to MPEG2 (which is an editable format) you can try HDTVtoMPEG2. I've heard good things. One thing to note, Adobe Premiere absolutely needs uncompressed (DV, HDV, AVCHD) formats to function properly. Vegas Pro can handle some compressed formats though.

Just to be sure, you are using Vegas Pro right? Not one of the Vegas Movie Studio packages? Vegas Pro is good with HD content. I can't say one way or the other about the "Prosumer" offerings from Sony.

Your computer is plenty fast for HD editing so long as you don't have hundreds of apps running in the background or anything like that.

Premiere is a nice NLE. Adobe likes to scare people away by giving ton of features that essentially do the same thing. There are five ways to do anything in Premiere. One way might be faster, one more stable, and other ways are just plain resource hogs. Figuring out the best way to do something is part of the fun of editing.
Title: Re: The XIM2 video prospective buyers have been waiting for!
Post by: 1nfinitum on 12:24 AM - 12/06/08
Yeah I tried using Premiere and it was a bit confusing to figure it out and in the end I pulled out victorious and I was able to sync everything up and -tried- to encode it but it turned out all stuttery and horrible.

On a side note, no I'm not running these off a flash drive, I dump them directly to my 300GB 7200RPM drive and edit them from there.  I'll just have to keep trying and look at some tutorials for adobe if I plan to get anything right there.  At least for Vegas (and yes it is Vegas Pro 8) I could figure it out all on my own.  Some of the stuff in premiere is kind of convoluted and unnecessary.
Title: Re: The XIM2 video prospective buyers have been waiting for!
Post by: x7rEmE on 05:09 AM - 12/14/08
Pretty nice can't wait to get my hands on xim2.
Title: Re: The XIM2 video prospective buyers have been waiting for!
Post by: Aceright on 02:15 PM - 12/14/08
Also, Jesuslegs brings up a great point.  I'm not going to go ahead right away and make a long video of a whole level or something like that.  People don't like watching long, boring vids.  They want to spend a minute or two, five tops if it's really interesting, you know what I mean?  So I'm going to try and go more for quantity than length so there's more of a selection instead of just a few long clips of the same thing.

The aircraft level at the end of CoD4 would be a good test as it is short, action packed, and if you are good could be a solid display of the product.