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Miscellaneous => Downloads => XIM 3 => Legacy Devices => XIM Apps => Topic started by: kodek64 on 04:31 PM - 10/05/11

Title: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: kodek64 on 04:31 PM - 10/05/11
XIM3 DeadZoner Build 929

This app allows one to find a game's stick dead zone size and shape for easily setting up standard configs (those that lack smart translators).

The app is very similar to OBsIV's XIM2 Dead Zoner, but it has a few extra features to make finding dead zones a quicker process:

 - Dead Zone wizard: Allows one to set a stick angle, and after answering a few prompts, find the magnitude of the dead zone vector in that direction. This is the quickest way of finding a dead zone, as it requires the least amount of trial and error.
 - Stick circle spinning mode: Helps the user find out if a dead zone is circular or rectangular by rotating any specific vector around the origin. Circular dead zones will display screen movement throughout the entire turn, while non-circular (usually rectangular) dead zones will exhibit erroneous movements near the diagonals.
 - Direct stick input: Allows the user to input specific vectors instead of having to find them through trial-and-error by moving the current stick position around the graph. This is very helpful for checking a dead zone size around one axis after finding the other axis's dead zone with the wizard.

Note: This application is BETA and may contain some bugs!

Requires build 928 of XIM firmware and SDK.

Instructions:

 - Download the app attached to this post. Extract to a folder.
 - Download the SDK (version 928) from the official thread.
 - Download and install the .NET Framework 4 runtime (http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=17718)
 - Copy XIMBridge.dll to the same folder XIM3DeadZoner.exe was extracted to.
 - Run the app!

(http://i.imgur.com/lM9QC.png)
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: Od1n on 04:47 PM - 10/05/11
good job kodek :)
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: mist4fun on 07:39 PM - 10/05/11
Great app.
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: BlessUp on 09:26 PM - 10/05/11
nice work kodek!
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: Fatal 0Efx on 09:40 PM - 10/05/11
OK.. how on earth do you use this thing?!  LOL.

I'm trying to make a STD config for Rage and I'm baffled here.  What is the proper way to use this tool?

I opened it up, connected, and hit wizard.  Immediately my screen started moving.  I answered the prompts and ended up with a DZ of 6554.  But that was on the X axis.  If I set it to 6554 on the Y axis and 0 for X, I get movement on that access.  Anything lower and no movement.

So I thought I had my DZ.  Turns out when I move at the diagonal I get movement long before the x/y intersect, leading me to believe it is a circle deadzone but here is where I get lost.

I set my XIM config to 6554 dz, with a -0.45 accel, but things feel flat out wonky.  If I set to a circle DZ, I don't get smooth circles.  If I set to square I get a diamond shaped movement.

Worse, if I start playing with the DZ on the XIM itself, it doesn't matter what I set it to.  I get movement with a DZ of 0.  Even more troublesome, if I set DZ to 0 - sq, my movement feels more like a circle than the reported DZ of 6554 - circle.

What am I doing wrong?

On a side note, what preparations on the XIM itself need to be done prior to running this program?  Do I need to start out with specific values?  Does loading a profile on the XIM have any bearing on the DZ app?
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: mist4fun on 10:38 PM - 10/05/11
Create multiple points when running deadzoner where movement occurs, verify it's a circle. Set your deadzone number and shape in your standard config and read the xim3 standard config guide.

http://www.xim3.com/community/index.php?topic=13332.0

Now keep in mind you may never see perfect circles with standard configs, but the X and Y axis should feel acceptable.
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: Fatal 0Efx on 11:16 PM - 10/05/11
I actually have read that guide but I still don't get it.  What value do I actually set as my deadzone?  I don't get movement on the X axis (Y = 0) until 6554 per the app.  Same with X=0, Y = 6554.  But when I go out at an angle, I'll get movement with combinations of less than 6554, e.g. X=5000, Y=5000 (just an example as I don't have exact numbers yet).

So what is my DZ here?  Is my DZ value only what I get with strict X or Y movement?  Are the other points simply to verify zone type?

Also, for the tutorial, what am I supposed to "start" with, in terms of XIM config and mouse DPI?  What are my base values?

In the tutorial, setting the sensitivity is the last thing you do, but you have to start with something.  I'm finding I get completely different results with the other tuning parameters depending on what my starting values are for other knobs and/or mouse itself. 
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: kodek64 on 12:26 AM - 10/07/11
I actually have read that guide but I still don't get it.  What value do I actually set as my deadzone?  I don't get movement on the X axis (Y = 0) until 6554 per the app.  Same with X=0, Y = 6554.  But when I go out at an angle, I'll get movement with combinations of less than 6554, e.g. X=5000, Y=5000 (just an example as I don't have exact numbers yet).

So what is my DZ here?  Is my DZ value only what I get with strict X or Y movement?  Are the other points simply to verify zone type?

Your dead zone would be 6554. I'm guessing the dead zone is circular, as you're saying the X and Y components are less than 6554 when moving diagonally. If it's a perfectly circular dead zone, you can use the distance formula to see if it's not too far from 6554: sqrt(x^2 + y^2). You should hopefully get a value close to 6554 which means that the dead zone is 6554 points around the origin.

Once you have your dead zone set, you can go onto setting up your acceleration, diagonal dampening, etc..., but I'm not the person to ask. :)

If I were to do it, though, I'd set my sensitivity to something close to what my other games use, then set the acceleration value while moving left and right. Once that's set, I'd try setting the Y-X ratio so you can make perfect circles. I don't think diagonal dampening applies to circular dead zones, so you might luck out on this one.

Good luck!
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: toysrme on 12:50 AM - 10/07/11
I actually have read that guide but I still don't get it.  What value do I actually set as my deadzone?  I don't get movement on the X axis (Y = 0) until 6554 per the app.  Same with X=0, Y = 6554.  But when I go out at an angle, I'll get movement with combinations of less than 6554, e.g. X=5000, Y=5000 (just an example as I don't have exact numbers yet).

So what is my DZ here?  Is my DZ value only what I get with strict X or Y movement?  Are the other points simply to verify zone type?

Also, for the tutorial, what am I supposed to "start" with, in terms of XIM config and mouse DPI?  What are my base values?

In the tutorial, setting the sensitivity is the last thing you do, but you have to start with something.  I'm finding I get completely different results with the other tuning parameters depending on what my starting values are for other knobs and/or mouse itself.
it could just be me reading this wrong, or you being iffy on the wording (not really, that's my nice way of saying that from what you've written) t sounds like a sounds like a square deadzone. see if it doesn't play better with a DZ of 6554 and a diagonal dampening of 0.21 and use whatever YX ratio you prefer for the game. typically 1.5 1.75 or 2.0 being popular (the latter two most popular)
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: kodek64 on 03:09 AM - 10/07/11
I actually have read that guide but I still don't get it.  What value do I actually set as my deadzone?  I don't get movement on the X axis (Y = 0) until 6554 per the app.  Same with X=0, Y = 6554.  But when I go out at an angle, I'll get movement with combinations of less than 6554, e.g. X=5000, Y=5000 (just an example as I don't have exact numbers yet).

So what is my DZ here?  Is my DZ value only what I get with strict X or Y movement?  Are the other points simply to verify zone type?

Also, for the tutorial, what am I supposed to "start" with, in terms of XIM config and mouse DPI?  What are my base values?

In the tutorial, setting the sensitivity is the last thing you do, but you have to start with something.  I'm finding I get completely different results with the other tuning parameters depending on what my starting values are for other knobs and/or mouse itself.
it could just be me reading this wrong, or you being iffy on the wording (not really, that's my nice way of saying that from what you've written) t sounds like a sounds like a square deadzone. see if it doesn't play better with a DZ of 6554 and a diagonal dampening of 0.21 and use whatever YX ratio you prefer for the game. typically 1.5 1.75 or 2.0 being popular (the latter two most popular)

I'm sorry, but if he states that the game has movement within the square dead zone, then it's clearly not square. This doesn't mean it's circular, though, but it very well could be. In that case (as I said in my previous message), I believe diagonal dampening does not apply.

I agree with the YX ratios, though. Those seem to be very popular values.
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: ICEMAN on 06:34 AM - 10/07/11
I have no clue how I am suppose to use this app to determine the deadzone size. All I get is a window with a list of repeating numbers. Is the repeating number my deadzone? Is there any way we can get a "dummy's" guide made for utilizing this app? I think many people, myself included, would probably find this app very useful if we could understand how to properly use it.
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: mist4fun on 09:35 AM - 10/07/11
Deadzoner shows the deadzone as a square with rounded corners.

I have no clue how I am suppose to use this app to determine the deadzone size. All I get is a window with a list of repeating numbers. Is the repeating number my deadzone? Is there any way we can get a "dummy's" guide made for utilizing this app? I think many people, myself included, would probably find this app very useful if we could understand how to properly use it.

Click the wizard button if you can't do it manually.
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: ICEMAN on 12:39 PM - 10/07/11
I must be missing something. I don't see a "Wizard" button or or menu for that matter. All I see is this window and the window starts populating with values.

______________________________
| XIMCommander.Net                      X |
|----------------------------------------------|
|  Status                                             |
|   _________________________    |
|  |  64                                           |    |
|  |  63.5                                        |    |
|  |  64                                           |    |
|  |  64                                           |    |
|  |                                                 |    |
|   ----------------------------------------    |
|                                 Alt-Esc to exit   |
-----------------------------------------------





Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: tuffrabit on 12:43 PM - 10/07/11
I must be missing something. I don't see a "Wizard" button or or menu for that matter. All I see is this window and the window starts populating with values.

______________________________
| XIMCommander.Net                      X |
|----------------------------------------------|
|  Status                                             |
|   _________________________    |
|  |  64                                           |    |
|  |  63.5                                        |    |
|  |  64                                           |    |
|  |  64                                           |    |
|  |                                                 |    |
|   ----------------------------------------    |
|                                 Alt-Esc to exit   |
-----------------------------------------------

What version of Windows you running fella?  That's a funny looking screen shot.
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: kodek64 on 12:50 PM - 10/07/11
I must be missing something. I don't see a "Wizard" button or or menu for that matter. All I see is this window and the window starts populating with values.

______________________________
| XIMCommander.Net                      X |
|----------------------------------------------|
|  Status                                             |
|   _________________________    |
|  |  64                                           |    |
|  |  63.5                                        |    |
|  |  64                                           |    |
|  |  64                                           |    |
|  |                                                 |    |
|   ----------------------------------------    |
|                                 Alt-Esc to exit   |
-----------------------------------------------



Hasn't anybody else caught this yet? I posted the wrong application :)
Sorry about that. Let me fix that really quick.

Edit: Fixed! Try again! Sorry about that.
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: mist4fun on 12:52 PM - 10/07/11
Haha. Also a good app, I like the alt tab fix. :)
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: kodek64 on 12:53 PM - 10/07/11
Haha. Also a good app, I like the alt tab fix. :)

I should post that app as well, but I've been working on some changes and I want to get those working before I do anything else :P
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: dmxwyrw on 06:21 PM - 10/07/11
How about hold shift for 2X movment with wasd? :)
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: Fatal 0Efx on 06:31 PM - 10/07/11
So back to my topic...

It may help to know the game I was trying to configure was RAGE.  Mist helped in another thread and he came up with his own config.  It was determined this game has neither a circle nor a square DZ but something in between.  Apparently this game is wonky like that! 

All I know is when I use a circle DZ, I get *fairly* smooth circles when moving at slow minute patterns, but if I try to make quick circles, I see a square on screen.  If I make long sweeping diagonal movements, I get somewhat of an lightning bolt pattern.

If I change to square DZ, then my circular movements result in a diamond shape on screen.  I haven't done much any other testing with a square DZ because its immediate effects felt absolutely wrong.


All in all though, with regards to this application itself.  I admit, it's still somewhat confusing.  It would be nice to have a nice, thorough, and simple guide to follow to help identify deadzones.  The wizard helped tremendously, but outside of that function I can't figure out how to properly use it. 

Simply putting dots on the screen is somewhat hard to do at exact locations as well and I don't find much use of the zoom functionality.  It just causes the screen to zoom out of the control space.  I expected zoom to actually help fine tune my mousing as if it would in a paint program.  E.g. the higher I zoom in, the more fine tuned/granular my mouse movements become, helping me target more specific coordinates. 

All in all it is a very nice app so thanks for writing it!
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: toysrme on 09:20 PM - 10/07/11
that would be incorrect.
he has no movement on X axis
he has no movement on Y axis
he HAS movement diagonal
this is because in square / rectangular deadzone games the distance to the corners of the deadzone are larger. diagonal movement winds up being additive to each other and faster than single axis movement.

this is why the diagonal dampening feature was added to XIM-2 during it's development and was the second most important feature XIM-2 had over XIM-1 as it allowed much more accurate movements in the 35-50* diagonal ranges. the movement was more restrained and wouldn't just go jetting off too quickly on diagonal movements.




which brings us back to my previous point. he described his situation correctly and it needs the square deadzone setting, or he described it incorrectly and it should use the circular setting.
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: kodek64 on 11:31 PM - 10/07/11
I'm not going to argue. He already said a circular dead zone worked for him. Let's leave it at that.


Let's keep the rest of the thread relevant to the XIM App and support for it. :)
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: toysrme on 02:56 AM - 10/08/11
:o so what part of answering the guys @#$% question about the XIM app at hand was not relevant to the thread he posted it in

that... could not have BEEN any more germaine to the conversation at hand ::)
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: OMGsus on 06:11 AM - 10/08/11
Still not quite. The circle dead zone compensation jaggedness has to do with the way we handle radials. I'll talk to OBsIV about it. It's an old issue from the xim1 days that nobody really brought up.

For square, try using a negative diag dampen.

Oh, and keep it civil.
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: Fatal 0Efx on 05:34 PM - 10/08/11
Maybe it's my fault that I overloaded this thread.   My apologies guys.  All in all, what is the correct way to use this tool?  Is there an indepth guide created for this?  Keep in mind, we're all not as intimate with XIM as some of you may be.  A lot is taken for granted with these posts.
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: kodek64 on 06:04 PM - 10/08/11
Maybe it's my fault that I overloaded this thread.   My apologies guys.  All in all, what is the correct way to use this tool?  Is there an indepth guide created for this?  Keep in mind, we're all not as intimate with XIM as some of you may be.  A lot is taken for granted with these posts.

It's fine. I didn't really expect the app to be "hard" to use, as the concept of it is pretty simple. I believe the problem is that many people are assuming the app will help them make an entire standard config, whereas the app's only job is to find the size and shape of a game's dead zone.

Here are some tips to use my app efficiently:

 - Start out by using the DZ wizard on angles 0 and 90. This will give you two values that will greatly help you find the size of the dead zone. Hopefully, the values will be the same (as in your case), in which case you can be pretty sure that this is going to be the value you'll be inputting into your config.
 - Find extra points to find the shape of the dead zone. You can do this by using the DZ wizard on diagonals, such as angles 45, 135, etc.., or you can move the stick manually, then use the W/A/S/D keys for fine movement until you find the point where the game's screen is barely moving again. After finding a few points, you will end up with a square dead zone, a circular dead zone, or (in some cases) something else.

You should also pick one of your previously found values, and tell the app to spin the stick at that distance around its center point. This will help you find out if your dead zone value is bounded by that circular dead zone. If you find that no movement is made in some angles of the circle, then it means that the dead zone in-game is bigger than the circular dead zone you're emulating, and you will want to adjust for it, or try a different dead zone shape.

Hope this helps!
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: OBsIV on 06:33 PM - 10/08/11
I didn't really expect the app to be "hard" to use, as the concept of it is pretty simple.

Well, I can tell you that I *love* this app! In fact, I tossed my version of XIMDeadZoner for this one since it's so much better. :)
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: kodek64 on 07:14 PM - 10/08/11
I didn't really expect the app to be "hard" to use, as the concept of it is pretty simple.

Well, I can tell you that I *love* this app! In fact, I tossed my version of XIMDeadZoner for this one since it's so much better. :)

Hahah thanks! It means a lot to me that YOU are also finding it useful!

Also, I'm always annoying you with suggestions, so feel free to do the same to me as well! If you find anything that you feel that the app could do better, or a feature that would work well with the app, please let me know :).
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: OBsIV on 09:47 PM - 10/08/11
If you find anything that you feel that the app could do better, or a feature that would work well with the app, please let me know :).

I will -- nice job. :)
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: conclave on 09:58 PM - 10/11/11
When I'm connected to the XIM 3, the wired controller input is disabled. Is this expected behavior? I have to hit disconnect every time I need to move my guy around in Bad Company 2 on PS3.
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: kodek64 on 09:59 PM - 10/11/11
When I'm connected to the XIM 3, the wired controller input is disabled. Is this expected behavior? I have to hit disconnect every time I need to move my guy around in Bad Company 2 on PS3.

Yup. It's a limitation of the API. Sorry :(.
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: conclave on 10:11 PM - 10/11/11
Yup. It's a limitation of the API. Sorry :(.

Could you elaborate a bit on that? I took a look at the header and the XIMCommander.cpp file, so my best guess is that when you call XIMSendInput with a XIMControllerInput struct, the XIM3 will ignore the attached controller.
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: kodek64 on 10:12 PM - 10/11/11
Yup. It's a limitation of the API. Sorry :(.

Could you elaborate a bit on that? I took a look at the header and the XIMCommander.cpp file, so my best guess is that when you call XIMSendInput with a XIMControllerInput struct, the XIM3 will ignore the attached controller.

That's exactly it. The struct is initialized with all 0s, and these values overwrite values from the actual controller.
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: conclave on 10:47 PM - 10/11/11
I see what you mean. That struct would need something like a bit mask to specifically tell the XIM3 which values to update and which ones to leave alone. There are some cases where this would be useful, but I guess that would be off topic.

The basic functionality of your app seems to work pretty well. It might be useful to save your progress though. Great job!
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: smokeybogart on 09:35 AM - 11/11/11
How do i get it to connect my controller? When i open up deadzoner is says no connection, i hit connect and nothing happens. I hit wizard and it says must me connected to xim3 so i enter pc mode and connect and stillllll tells me i need to connect. What gives?
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: mist4fun on 11:15 AM - 11/11/11
Plug your controller into xim3
Plug your xim3 into your xbox
Plug your Belkin Easy Transfer Cable into your pc
Run deadzoner
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: tast3urblo0d on 11:43 PM - 12/10/12
what is i dont got a belkin easy cable i got windows easy cable?
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: mist4fun on 12:23 AM - 12/11/12
There are only two transfer cables supported, the belkin cable, and cables unlimited easy transfer cable. Other cables may not be compatible.
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: tast3urblo0d on 12:32 AM - 12/11/12
yeah i notice i will need to get one 2morrow i guess then.
Title: Re: XIM3 DeadZoner
Post by: Chance on 12:56 AM - 12/31/12
I try running the DeadZoner and get an error report, it doesn't run, just crashes for some reason.