XIM Community

General Category => Support => Topic started by: iguru42 on 01:12 PM - 09/29/08

Title: Need wiring help
Post by: iguru42 on 01:12 PM - 09/29/08
A buddy of mine is doing the soldering for me, he just sent me this question:

If you have the time, peruse through the Xim360 install guide.  I am a bit cloudy on one area.  They donít get into great detail about the wiring per se.  They do give you a pinout and they do give you pad locations.  However, there is the issue of two connections.  There are two 4-pin soldering points on the XIM360 board on the lower right corner.  They call out for: UGND, UD-, UD+, and U5V on one, and GND, P0, P1, +5V on the other.  The one with the ďuĒ prefix is for the USB cable, and the other is for the +5V and GND, but what are the P0 and P1?  They show a pair of wires connected to it in one of the photos, but donít reference it in the docs.   My guess is it isnít used?

Title: Re: Need wiring help
Post by: snooze on 01:49 PM - 09/29/08
Derek used them for test programming purposes but they are not needed any more.
Title: Re: Need wiring help
Post by: nickstudy on 02:06 PM - 09/29/08
Derek used them for test programming purposes but they are not needed any more.

My prototype has them, but as snooze as said they are not needed anymore. You best make SURE that guy can solder well, or you  will end up like others on here who trusted someone else to do it just so they can be pissed off and without a very very hard to get xim 360. Seriously, if this guy has soldered before, but never soldered very tiny points or is even doubtful about it you better think twice.

Don't believe me? Here is a story about a guy on this forum who had someone else do it for him and look at what happened. The  guy said he could d o it and "used to do it for a living" obviously, he was wrong.

http://xim3.com/community/index.php?topic=1145.0 (http://xim3.com/community/index.php?topic=1145.0)

Oh, still not satisfied? here read this. In the end Derek hooked him up with a different board using existing components. At least this guy tried it himself, but realized he screwed up.

http://xim3.com/community/index.php?topic=951.0 (http://xim3.com/community/index.php?topic=951.0)

All I am saying is I would show that guy the pictures on here and the stories of people who were trusted to do something and failed.

Just want to make sure you have happy times and not be super pissed off and without a Xim 360.

Title: Re: Need wiring help
Post by: snooze on 02:15 PM - 09/29/08
I would ask him to solder something else on a test board and see how he does then let him have a crack at the XIM.

"Practice does not make perfect. Only perfect practice makes perfect."

Vince Lombardi
Title: Re: Need wiring help
Post by: iguru42 on 03:05 PM - 09/29/08
The guy is an EE and has access to all the soldering equipment one could hope for at work.  He's been soldering for years so I don't anticipate a problem. 
Title: Re: Need wiring help
Post by: nickstudy on 04:49 PM - 09/29/08
The guy is an EE and has access to all the soldering equipment one could hope for at work.  He's been soldering for years so I don't anticipate a problem. 

Well, I have met a few EE's (I am surrounded by them) and they looked at that pcb and went "that's way to tiny I am not used to that small of a scale" since most EE's I have met are civil workers or work in a factory and handle electrical motors, or running line and theory etc etc. I guess it depends on the discipline they are involved in ie, microelectroncs vs power systems vs telecom, instrumentation or other fields. They are all different. I would want to see samples of something on that small of a scale, but that's just me. :) :) :)
Title: Re: Need wiring help
Post by: iguru42 on 05:03 PM - 09/29/08
He works at Bose, he builds his own circuits, I've seen his work.
Title: Re: Need wiring help
Post by: iguru42 on 10:50 PM - 10/04/08
So he had it built and we finally got a chance to sit down and see how it went....

Not good.

The problem we're having is all the analog controls appear to be dead.  Both triggers and sticks do not function at all.

When he had it at work and ran the stress test he ran it for a 1000+ iterations with no problems.  When we first set it up at home, it failed at 82 on the right stick.  After running ximcalibrate again, the stress test worked fine.

So it seems something went drastically wrong with the controller itself.  And ideas at what to look for?  Is there a single place on the controller PCB that handles all the analog singals?
Title: Re: Need wiring help
Post by: MetalSlayerX on 11:59 PM - 10/04/08
So he had it built and we finally got a chance to sit down and see how it went....

Not good.

The problem we're having is all the analog controls appear to be dead.  Both triggers and sticks do not function at all.

When he had it at work and ran the stress test he ran it for a 1000+ iterations with no problems.  When we first set it up at home, it failed at 82 on the right stick.  After running ximcalibrate again, the stress test worked fine.

So it seems something went drastically wrong with the controller itself.  And ideas at what to look for?  Is there a single place on the controller PCB that handles all the analog singals?
Post your calibration settings, make sure all connections have good contact. The only thing that shouldn't be used is P0 & P1. Make sure you solder 5V & GND too, I almost forgot it when I was doing mine, I think that's what caused part of my Right Stick Axis error in the stress test. If it keeps failing then re-solder right stick connections even if you think you have good connections. You might have too little or too much solder that gives your chip bad joints. I solder the first time it failed, I de-soldered everything and re-soldered again and everything works perfectly. You will need at least 26 awg wiring for the 5V & Ground, I wouldn't use anything like 30 awg for it. Some people make the mistake of using 30 awg wiring for the ground and 5V, 30 awg is too thin for power to go through to the xim board.

Title: Re: Need wiring help
Post by: iguru42 on 07:16 AM - 10/05/08
I'll give him a call and try and get that info, that or see if he can post it himself, he doesn't have an account here yet.

That said, I forgot to mention, the analog controls don't work even at the controller itself which is what has me concerned.
Title: Re: Need wiring help
Post by: snooze on 06:44 PM - 10/05/08
I'll give him a call and try and get that info, that or see if he can post it himself, he doesn't have an account here yet.

That said, I forgot to mention, the analog controls don't work even at the controller itself which is what has me concerned.

Tell him to check REF. Either he forgot to put it on or put it in the wrong spot. Either that or his power and ground.
Title: Re: Need wiring help
Post by: mist4fun on 07:17 PM - 10/05/08
off topic:  snooze i freaking love your avatar. hilarious.
Title: Re: Need wiring help
Post by: snooze on 07:44 PM - 10/05/08
off topic:  snooze i freaking love your avatar. hilarious.
Thanks. I feel that way from time to time. I saw it and had to add it.  ;D
Title: Re: Need wiring help
Post by: Rocksolid83 on 07:53 PM - 10/05/08
off topic:  snooze i freaking love your avatar. hilarious.
Thanks. I feel that way from time to time. I saw it and had to add it.  ;D

That avatar probably own vista.
Title: Re: Need wiring help
Post by: snooze on 08:41 PM - 10/05/08
off topic:  snooze i freaking love your avatar. hilarious.
Thanks. I feel that way from time to time. I saw it and had to add it.  ;D

That avatar probably own vista.
Haha. True.
Title: Re: Need wiring help
Post by: francis42 on 04:23 PM - 10/15/08
So I am the person IGURU42 was referring to that is doing all the modifications.  The one thing I did not do prior to modification is test the controller.  It currently will show no function of the joysticks or triggers when tested in Windows XP on its own.  I made sure I have tested the second controller and it definitely works.  My only recourse is to remove all modified connections to the controller and test it again, which I am not looking forward to doing, but I will have to do it anyway in order to transfer the XIM2 board to a known good controller and have at it again.  Does anyone have any insight to this at all?  I have checked all my solder connections and they are clean and no bridges.  All connections go to the locations pointed out in the install guide.  I tested the +5V and GND connections and they are okay, so I don't think this is attributed to the XIM2 board causing any odd issues due to not being powered.  The odd thing is it did pass the stress test just fine when I ran it the first time, and then failed when I got the controller home.  Maybe I am using a bad controller and never knew it?
Title: Re: Need wiring help
Post by: snooze on 10:17 AM - 10/16/08
So I am the person IGURU42 was referring to that is doing all the modifications.  The one thing I did not do prior to modification is test the controller.  It currently will show no function of the joysticks or triggers when tested in Windows XP on its own.  I made sure I have tested the second controller and it definitely works.  My only recourse is to remove all modified connections to the controller and test it again, which I am not looking forward to doing, but I will have to do it anyway in order to transfer the XIM2 board to a known good controller and have at it again.  Does anyone have any insight to this at all?  I have checked all my solder connections and they are clean and no bridges.  All connections go to the locations pointed out in the install guide.  I tested the +5V and GND connections and they are okay, so I don't think this is attributed to the XIM2 board causing any odd issues due to not being powered.  The odd thing is it did pass the stress test just fine when I ran it the first time, and then failed when I got the controller home.  Maybe I am using a bad controller and never knew it?
Possibly but not likely. So you are saying that sticks and triggers aren't working? What about the buttons? If they work you might want to check your REF connection. The way the chip is placed inside the controller it would probably be the first one to break if the controller was forced closed since the REF is the second from the end and it is right on the corner of the trigger plastic.
On the bad controller portion. I have actually had a trigger go bad. I completely took the XIM hardware out of it and the trigger still wouldn't work on its own. Not sure why. I checked the solder point and everything looked fine. Maybe I fried something.
Anyway,
Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Need wiring help
Post by: SUPRARACER on 11:13 AM - 10/16/08
He said test ran thru 1000 times with no errors so it may be driver related. The sticks and triggers wont work unless you have a good calibration and the driver running. Check device manager and make sure light is on the controller.


John

Also stress will fail immed if bad calibration.
Title: Re: Need wiring help
Post by: francis42 on 11:35 AM - 10/16/08
Correct.  The sticks and triggers do not work according to Windows XP.  It was tried on the XBOX360 console with the same results.  All of the buttons work just fine, so this seems to be something with the controller and how it handles the joystick and trigger functions.  If it were one joystick I could understand it being faulty, but this seems to be all analog functionality, so maybe an analog-to-digital conversion issue?  Checking on the web some people have had to return controllers due to stick functionality not working.  The REF connection is fine.  I went through all of my work yesterday and touched up all connections on the controller mainboard and then cleaned and resoldered all connections on the XIM2 board to make sure I didn't have any cold solder joints or bridges.  Everything looks good.  I will build up the second unit and hopefully that one turns out to be fully functional.  MetalSlayerX had suggested posting calibration results.  If that seems to help out I can try to do that.  Also someone requested pics - I can try to post whatever pics people want to see.  If any of that helps out (I am not sure why if it seems to be related to the controller) I will do my best to get the info posted.  I appreciate any help and thanks for the replies.
Title: Re: Need wiring help
Post by: SUPRARACER on 11:57 AM - 10/16/08
The sticks will not work at all even by themselves while the xim board is in the controller. If you plug the xim cord into the pc then the controller cord into the xbox run the software on the pc the controls should work on the xbox by moving them on the controller.

Uninstall the software
download new beta software
run new software without plugging in the controller
plug in controller when prompted for calibration
run stress
if all passes should work.

Make sure it says found new hardware and shows up under device manager.

John
Title: Re: Need wiring help
Post by: iguru42 on 12:18 PM - 10/16/08
Quote from: SUPRARACER
The sticks will not work at all even by themselves while the xim board is in the controller. If you plug the xim cord into the pc then the controller cord into the xbox run the software on the pc the controls should work on the xbox by moving them on the controller.

I could have sworn I read that after the XIM was installed the controller would function exactly as it had before.

Quote
download new beta software

The current beta software is the only software we used.

Quote
run new software without plugging in the controller

Did that.

Quote
plug in controller when prompted for calibration

Did that.

Quote
run stress

Did that, had some issues.  Francis42 could answer this better than I now but 2 weeks ago he stress tested it at work, and got a perfect.  When we got together that night to actually try it out with his xbox we started having failures on the right stick at iteration eighty something, if I remember correctly.

Quote
Make sure it says found new hardware and shows up under device manager.

Both the controller and the XIM were detected as new devices and installed just fine.  But that's where we ran into the problem with the analog controls and got hung up there.