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Epic Changing Position about Keyboard/Mouse on Console  (Read 1067 times)

Offline El4n

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It appears Epic is changing its position regarding Keyboard + Mouse on console:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2018/08/08/fortnite-will-start-matchmaking-mouse-and-keyboard-console-players-with-pc/

I assume this change would result in XIM being banned from Epic sponsored competitions, v-buck showdowns, etc. Will Epic be able to detect XIM on console? If Epic could detect XIM/allowed its use, I assume XIM users would be put into Keyboard + Mouse lobbies and have to play without aim assist?

Thoughts?

« Last Edit: 10:15 AM - 08/09/18 by El4n »

Offline tepidblack

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Re: Epic Changing Position about Keyboard/Mouse on Console
« Reply #1 on: 10:57 AM - 08/09/18 »
No, no, no and no. We already went through this with PUBG, if any of these developers were capable of detecting and blocking the XIM it would have been done already. Epic forcing people using native KB&M users on PS4 to match with PC is a completely different matter though, that will be incredibly easy for them to implement and I'm surprised they haven't done it already. Whether they should, considering what I've heard about the input lag, mouse smoothing issues and generally just feels-nothing-like-PC native mouse support on PS4 is something they really should think about

Offline Xchronicx

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Re: Epic Changing Position about Keyboard/Mouse on Console
« Reply #2 on: 11:56 AM - 08/09/18 »
Apparently there is an api that is released that can detect Xim’s,.. but who knows if Epic will actually implement that.. I doubt it considering Blizzard has far more funds and resources,.. and they couldn’t stop XIM on Overwatch. From my understanding,.. I wouldn’t worry at all.

Offline Griffexxx

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Re: Epic Changing Position about Keyboard/Mouse on Console
« Reply #3 on: 05:01 PM - 08/09/18 »
xd blizz doesnt care about thier console scene they aint wasting resources on it
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Offline Phil Ashio

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Re: Epic Changing Position about Keyboard/Mouse on Console
« Reply #4 on: 05:55 PM - 08/09/18 »
Imagine some devs are already doing this? I mean it's not too hard to detect Xim as I think I've seen it pop up in my blue tooth devices on PS4. So what if devs are already trying to match you with other Xim users or K&M device players? Maybe Obs should implement a feature that keeps Xim off until you hit that button on the Xim Apex. So you match make first and then turn your Xim on.

Offline Chuwie

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Re: Epic Changing Position about Keyboard/Mouse on Console
« Reply #5 on: 07:31 PM - 08/13/18 »
Imagine some devs are already doing this? I mean it's not too hard to detect Xim as I think I've seen it pop up in my blue tooth devices on PS4. So what if devs are already trying to match you with other Xim users or K&M device players? Maybe Obs should implement a feature that keeps Xim off until you hit that button on the Xim Apex. So you match make first and then turn your Xim on.

I think Epic has been doing this already. I was watching some matches at my friends house who mind you has way better stats than me and more time overall (this matters) But after watching tons of his matches I noticed people he went up against aren’t as good as the usual ppl I pay with so it made me start wondering if i’m already playing against other xim users or k&m users. It would also explain why I feel like i’ve been seeing a lot of the same players this season.

Offline Emanuel

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Re: Epic Changing Position about Keyboard/Mouse on Console
« Reply #6 on: 06:59 AM - 08/14/18 »
There is no way for Devs/companies to detect you are using a XIM. What they can do, and are already doing, is make the AA very inconsistent and buggy at really high sensitivities. If you tried BO4 Beta with aim assist and sensitivity at 14 (insane) you would notice its inconsistency. Same happens with overwatch after June patch and same happens with fortnite after last patch.

Bo4 Beta with aim assist + XIM was only consistent at 8 or 9 sensitivity wich ofc will limit your turn speed and add a lot of accel on the max turn. Still usable tho.

If you notice lately a lot of guys are not happy with their XIM performance in some games because they canīt break the AA bubble and need to adjust constantly on the enemy hitbox. Grab the controller and try to play a bit on the highest sens, same thing will happen. This is Devs measure.

Other than that, no, no one will stop people from using XIM.

As for XIM, Iīve said this already, the smart transaltors shouldnīt be designed at max sens anymore, it will only cause problems and people will be unsatisfied. I understand people want their mouse being able to do quick 180s, wich canīt happen on lower sens, but the aiming will always be a mess doesnīt matter how good XIM is. It is also bad with a controller on the highest sens. Devs do this on purpose.

Offline Enrix

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Re: Epic Changing Position about Keyboard/Mouse on Console
« Reply #7 on: 08:16 AM - 08/14/18 »
I don't think they are changing "position", they are just matching Mouse/KB players against each other, which is not bad in my opinion. But I have read the comments... you guys say that they made Aim Assist inconsistent and weird at high sensitivities to "counter" XIM. But what about players that play on high sens on controller? Should have the same effect.
PS4 Pro with SSD | Razer Ornata Chroma | Steelseries Rival 700 | Steelseries QcK Prism | Steelseries Siberia 800 | BenQ XL2420T

XIM APEX and mouse settings guide:
https://community.xim.tech/index.php?topic=66901.0


Offline Emanuel

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Re: Epic Changing Position about Keyboard/Mouse on Console
« Reply #8 on: 09:03 AM - 08/14/18 »
I don't think they are changing "position", they are just matching Mouse/KB players against each other, which is not bad in my opinion. But I have read the comments... you guys say that they made Aim Assist inconsistent and weird at high sensitivities to "counter" XIM. But what about players that play on high sens on controller? Should have the same effect.

The thing is that almost no one uses the max sens on controller. It is almost unplayable at that point, is just there because who knows? Maybe some crazy dude will want to use it. I donīt know about any single good controller player rocking 14 sens on CoD or 100% on Battlefield. Devs are not blind, they know about XIM and they know how it works. They are around the forum, they buy these things. They know it performs optimally at max sens, so they just create their own measures against this. But if Smart Translators start to be designed at lower sens, then no chance. THey canīt mess up AA or controller players would rage too much.

Is not coincidence that suddenly, on the most popular games (apart from BF wich doesnt suffer from this even at 100% sens) the XIM started to perform worse if you use AA. Loads of complains, and is not the ST or the XIM itself. XIM 2 was WAY inferior product to the current XIM ones and it would deal better with AA at max sens on that time, because no one knew about XIM at all. WW2 already had this on the max sens, AA bubble means you gonna fight with your mouse constantly, is not as snappy as controller on sens 7 or 8. Same thing on BO4 Beta, and same on Overwatch wich they keep changing from patch to patch, on purpose as I said. Just search for the amount of topics on that regard: "inconsistent AA, canīt fight the bubble, canīt aim properly, getting destroyed, bad xim performance" etc etc.

This doesnīt affect me as I am a no aim assist player, but I like to try stuff and I feel bad for AA users. If I used AA I would simply use half sens at best and deal with the jitter or erratic response on the look mechanic. Because dealing with AA on highest sens with the ST is a pain, you spend more time fighting with your mouse than anything.

My XIM days are almost over anyway (after almost 10 years using this thing). Main reason, Call of Duty is now on Battle net, not a single hack was created for the beta (while on the last years on steam the beta was already full of them). My reason for using XIM on console was always the amount of hacking on PC.

Will still use it for BF V if I like it, is basically the only game as it hacked as hell on PC; Fairfight is a joke as an "anti cheat". Overwatch, Fortnite, CoD BO4 are now way superior on PC; no hacks, so no reason to play console on those while dealing with an awful FOV and awful framerate/motion blur.
« Last Edit: 09:13 AM - 08/14/18 by Emanuel »

Offline Phil Ashio

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Re: Epic Changing Position about Keyboard/Mouse on Console
« Reply #9 on: 10:07 AM - 08/14/18 »
I don't think they are changing "position", they are just matching Mouse/KB players against each other, which is not bad in my opinion. But I have read the comments... you guys say that they made Aim Assist inconsistent and weird at high sensitivities to "counter" XIM. But what about players that play on high sens on controller? Should have the same effect.

The thing is that almost no one uses the max sens on controller. It is almost unplayable at that point, is just there because who knows? Maybe some crazy dude will want to use it. I donīt know about any single good controller player rocking 14 sens on CoD or 100% on Battlefield.

Actually, I play at a max sensitivity with a gamepad and I get about 1.25-1.5 KDR based on the game. Git gud, nub!

Offline Emanuel

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Re: Epic Changing Position about Keyboard/Mouse on Console
« Reply #10 on: 10:29 AM - 08/14/18 »
I don't think they are changing "position", they are just matching Mouse/KB players against each other, which is not bad in my opinion. But I have read the comments... you guys say that they made Aim Assist inconsistent and weird at high sensitivities to "counter" XIM. But what about players that play on high sens on controller? Should have the same effect.

The thing is that almost no one uses the max sens on controller. It is almost unplayable at that point, is just there because who knows? Maybe some crazy dude will want to use it. I donīt know about any single good controller player rocking 14 sens on CoD or 100% on Battlefield.

Actually, I play at a max sensitivity with a gamepad and I get about 1.25-1.5 KDR based on the game. Git gud, nub!

And 1,25-1,5 KDR is good? Ok "bruh". Thatīs what I get with a controller and trust me, Iīm really BAD with it.

Offline Phil Ashio

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Re: Epic Changing Position about Keyboard/Mouse on Console
« Reply #11 on: 01:53 PM - 08/14/18 »
1.25-1.5 with a gamepad isn't bad. Playing at a max sensitivity with a gamepad, you can still do well. Especially with the current gen sticks which are really smooth and precise.

Offline pheno

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Re: Epic Changing Position about Keyboard/Mouse on Console
« Reply #12 on: 01:58 PM - 08/14/18 »
There is no way for Devs/companies to detect you are using a XIM. What they can do, and are already doing, is make the AA very inconsistent and buggy at really high sensitivities. If you tried BO4 Beta with aim assist and sensitivity at 14 (insane) you would notice its inconsistency. Same happens with overwatch after June patch and same happens with fortnite after last patch.

Bo4 Beta with aim assist + XIM was only consistent at 8 or 9 sensitivity wich ofc will limit your turn speed and add a lot of accel on the max turn. Still usable tho.

If you notice lately a lot of guys are not happy with their XIM performance in some games because they canīt break the AA bubble and need to adjust constantly on the enemy hitbox. Grab the controller and try to play a bit on the highest sens, same thing will happen. This is Devs measure.

Other than that, no, no one will stop people from using XIM.

As for XIM, Iīve said this already, the smart transaltors shouldnīt be designed at max sens anymore, it will only cause problems and people will be unsatisfied. I understand people want their mouse being able to do quick 180s, wich canīt happen on lower sens, but the aiming will always be a mess doesnīt matter how good XIM is. It is also bad with a controller on the highest sens. Devs do this on purpose.
you are so wrong that BO4 think....ingame sens max and its so fkn good...wrecking everyone =)

Offline Emanuel

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Re: Epic Changing Position about Keyboard/Mouse on Console
« Reply #13 on: 05:04 PM - 08/14/18 »
There is no way for Devs/companies to detect you are using a XIM. What they can do, and are already doing, is make the AA very inconsistent and buggy at really high sensitivities. If you tried BO4 Beta with aim assist and sensitivity at 14 (insane) you would notice its inconsistency. Same happens with overwatch after June patch and same happens with fortnite after last patch.

Bo4 Beta with aim assist + XIM was only consistent at 8 or 9 sensitivity wich ofc will limit your turn speed and add a lot of accel on the max turn. Still usable tho.

If you notice lately a lot of guys are not happy with their XIM performance in some games because they canīt break the AA bubble and need to adjust constantly on the enemy hitbox. Grab the controller and try to play a bit on the highest sens, same thing will happen. This is Devs measure.

Other than that, no, no one will stop people from using XIM.

As for XIM, Iīve said this already, the smart transaltors shouldnīt be designed at max sens anymore, it will only cause problems and people will be unsatisfied. I understand people want their mouse being able to do quick 180s, wich canīt happen on lower sens, but the aiming will always be a mess doesnīt matter how good XIM is. It is also bad with a controller on the highest sens. Devs do this on purpose.
you are so wrong that BO4 think....ingame sens max and its so fkn good...wrecking everyone =)

Well I donīt use Aim Assist and also was "wrecking everyone". The fact you did well doesnīt mean the AA bubble is perfect. I did several tests and immediatly noticed how XIM had problemas coping with it. If a good controller player locks on you, youīre dead basically. But there a lot of noobsters on the Beta, trying out the game etc.

Offline Enrix

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Re: Epic Changing Position about Keyboard/Mouse on Console
« Reply #14 on: 03:42 AM - 08/15/18 »
I don't think they are changing "position", they are just matching Mouse/KB players against each other, which is not bad in my opinion. But I have read the comments... you guys say that they made Aim Assist inconsistent and weird at high sensitivities to "counter" XIM. But what about players that play on high sens on controller? Should have the same effect.

The thing is that almost no one uses the max sens on controller. It is almost unplayable at that point, is just there because who knows? Maybe some crazy dude will want to use it. I donīt know about any single good controller player rocking 14 sens on CoD or 100% on Battlefield. Devs are not blind, they know about XIM and they know how it works. They are around the forum, they buy these things. They know it performs optimally at max sens, so they just create their own measures against this. But if Smart Translators start to be designed at lower sens, then no chance. THey canīt mess up AA or controller players would rage too much.

Is not coincidence that suddenly, on the most popular games (apart from BF wich doesnt suffer from this even at 100% sens) the XIM started to perform worse if you use AA. Loads of complains, and is not the ST or the XIM itself. XIM 2 was WAY inferior product to the current XIM ones and it would deal better with AA at max sens on that time, because no one knew about XIM at all. WW2 already had this on the max sens, AA bubble means you gonna fight with your mouse constantly, is not as snappy as controller on sens 7 or 8. Same thing on BO4 Beta, and same on Overwatch wich they keep changing from patch to patch, on purpose as I said. Just search for the amount of topics on that regard: "inconsistent AA, canīt fight the bubble, canīt aim properly, getting destroyed, bad xim performance" etc etc.

This doesnīt affect me as I am a no aim assist player, but I like to try stuff and I feel bad for AA users. If I used AA I would simply use half sens at best and deal with the jitter or erratic response on the look mechanic. Because dealing with AA on highest sens with the ST is a pain, you spend more time fighting with your mouse than anything.

My XIM days are almost over anyway (after almost 10 years using this thing). Main reason, Call of Duty is now on Battle net, not a single hack was created for the beta (while on the last years on steam the beta was already full of them). My reason for using XIM on console was always the amount of hacking on PC.

Will still use it for BF V if I like it, is basically the only game as it hacked as hell on PC; Fairfight is a joke as an "anti cheat". Overwatch, Fortnite, CoD BO4 are now way superior on PC; no hacks, so no reason to play console on those while dealing with an awful FOV and awful framerate/motion blur.
I see your point, you're right on most of the things you said.
Maybe I'll switch to PC as well one day... I am starting to not like this aim assist bul**t anymore.
Aim Assist is needed on controller but I feel that devs are exaggerating.
Hopefully the XIM developers will keep doing their best to give us an enjoyable experience!
PS4 Pro with SSD | Razer Ornata Chroma | Steelseries Rival 700 | Steelseries QcK Prism | Steelseries Siberia 800 | BenQ XL2420T

XIM APEX and mouse settings guide:
https://community.xim.tech/index.php?topic=66901.0