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Is high dpi REALLY better ? I dont think so  (Read 1970 times)

Offline PixelSquish

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Re: Is high dpi REALLY better ? I dont think so
« Reply #15 on: 09:09 AM - 04/09/18 »
Btw xim experts ..... why jitter with 16k 1000hz .. even wheb smoothness to max ?

are you on a cloth pad or hard pad

Offline Cha0s

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Re: Is high dpi REALLY better ? I dont think so
« Reply #16 on: 09:16 AM - 04/09/18 »
10 sens @ 12K = 20 sens @ 6K = 30 sens @ 4K = 40 sens @ 3K. They're all the same.

The reason high DPI mice are recommended is simply because they use more modern, better sensors than most mice. The reason max DPI is recommended is to pull people's mindsets away from really low DPI values like 400 and 800 typically seen on PC, because those DPI settings tend to cause interpolation and pixel-skipping on a Xim.

All you need for optimal performance on a Xim is a mouse capable of around 3000 DPI with a decent sensor under the hood. If you've got an older mouse with a 3310 Pixart optical sensor running at 3200 DPI (e.g most Zowie mice), there's no need to replace it with a 3360 Pixart sensor running at 12K (most Logitech mice), or a 3389 Pixart sensor running at 16K (new Razer mice).

The performance difference on Pixart sensors from 3200 to 16000 DPI is negligible and if anything, you're adding jitter into the mix by going with ultra-high DPI.

If you want to play it safe and go for a "one size fits all" mouse setting, I'd go with 3200 DPI and 500Hz polling, as long as you're using a mouse with a Pixart 3310, 3360, 3366 or 3389 sensor, which is most gaming mice from the last few years.

Steer clear of laser sensors whenever possible, especially Razer mice with "3G" or "4G" laser sensors. They are almost without fail complete crap on a Xim.


This little tidbit of information is interesting. I have a naga v1 which uses a 3.5g laser sensor. I've been at it over a week now and still can't find that sweet spot for sensitivity. And Mirco movement has been a nightmare. Guess it's time to buy a new mouse.😫

Offline Cyanic

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Re: Is high dpi REALLY better ? I dont think so
« Reply #17 on: 12:09 PM - 04/10/18 »
There is no need for excessive dpi...
3500-12000 will be good enough

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Re: Is high dpi REALLY better ? I dont think so
« Reply #18 on: 04:41 PM - 04/10/18 »
Btw xim experts ..... why jitter with 16k 1000hz .. even wheb smoothness to max ?
Crazy high DPI + crazy high polling = every micromovement or environmental imperfection being detected as input.

You don't need either 16K DPI or 1000Hz polling. Both are recommended to simplify the support process. If you want to stick to both, change Sync in your game configs in Xim Manager from Off to Default or Common, that may resolve the jitter. Avoid Smoothing whenever possible, it may tidy up jitter, but it adds floatiness. Minor Smoothing tweaks however are good for fine-tuning Aim Assist.

If Sync doesn't clean up jitter, head to zowie.benq.com/en-eu/support/mouse-rate-checker.html and check if your mouse can hold a steady 1000Hz (many can't and it varies by individual mouse). If it can't, drop both Apex and mouse polling to 500Hz.You won't notice any performance difference between 1ms and 2ms polling.

Finally, there are diminishing returns for DPI above around 3000 DPI. You should notice a miniscule to no difference between 3K & 16K DPI, and you're adding the potential for both jitter and mouse smoothing into the mix by going ultra-high for DPI. I highly recommend checking out Rocket Jump Ninja's great sensor debate videos on YouTube for more info.

Based on sensor testing data, the right DPI value to avoid mouse smoothing may in fact be 1600. However, I don't think it's prominent enough for most people to notice and 1600 is too low on Xim for Sync > Off without hitting the sensitivity cap, so 3200 is the recommended minimum. That said, 1600 DPI is fine for other Sync settings.

This little tidbit of information is interesting. I have a naga v1 which uses a 3.5g laser sensor. I've been at it over a week now and still can't find that sweet spot for sensitivity. And Mirco movement has been a nightmare. Guess it's time to buy a new mouse.😫
Razer's older laser mice are frankly hard work on a Xim. I used Razer exclusively for over a decade (Satanised left-handed affliction) and none of them exhibited the crispy aim I wanted on multiple generations of Xim. I swapped to a Logitech G303 and the difference in the ability to move, track and aim was significantly improved and immediately noticeable.

That's a sensor thing, not brand-related and it's due to the Pixart PMW-3310, 3360, 3366 or 3389 series of optical sensors being leaps and bounds better than anything prior to their arrival. If you want to stick with the familiar, go with a Naga Trinity, which uses a 3389 sensor and comes with full on-board memory (use Synapse 3 beta). If you feel like a change, every recent Logitech gaming mouse is highly regarded, as are the latest few Steelseries mice. Check the Top 40 mice at www.rocketjumpninja.com and choose your poison.
« Last Edit: 04:53 PM - 04/10/18 by antithesis »

Offline PixelSquish

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Re: Is high dpi REALLY better ? I dont think so
« Reply #19 on: 05:49 PM - 04/10/18 »
the only benefit to using higher DPI is supposedly cutting through AA more but I have yet to figure out by how much and if it's worth it. would like to know more.

the other downside to higher DPI is that even your top of the line mouse adds smoothing at values around 3K and up.

happily using 3200DPI and 500hz polling for a bit now.

Online antithesis

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Re: Is high dpi REALLY better ? I dont think so
« Reply #20 on: 06:00 PM - 04/10/18 »
the only benefit to using higher DPI is supposedly cutting through AA more but I have yet to figure out by how much and if it's worth it. would like to know more.
Yep, high DPI and polling is better if you want less AA, but it can add jitter and mouse smoothing, so it's swings and roundabouts. Adjusting Sensitivity, Sync and Smoothing at lower DPI can have a similar effect on AA if you're after cut-through.

TSARGA posted an anti-aim-assist curve in Lithe's(?) thread recently, that's pretty much bang-on if you want to play with curves to fight AA.

In the end, if you don't get jitter and don't like AA, stick with high DPI and a hard pad. If jitter is a problem or you want more AA or prefer cloth pads, there's no requirement to stick with max DPI and polling, it may be detrimental to your performance.

Offline mattyb98

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Re: Is high dpi REALLY better ? I dont think so
« Reply #21 on: 06:06 PM - 04/10/18 »
I personally with all the mice iv used with xim4 found 3200 dpi to be the best for context i used a qck heavy cloth pad and my mouse of choice now is the zowie ec1-a i have previously used the deathadder chroma g502 and a g pro with all i found 3200dpi better than max (equivalent for the zowie)

Offline jd394y

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Re: Is high dpi REALLY better ? I dont think so
« Reply #22 on: 10:56 PM - 04/10/18 »
"If Sync doesn't clean up jitter, head to zowie.benq.com/en-eu/support/mouse-rate-checker.html and check if your mouse can hold a steady 1000Hz (many can't and it varies by individual mouse). If it can't, drop both Apex and mouse polling to 500Hz.You won't notice any performance difference between 1ms and 2ms polling."

this is interesting..... im using a logitech G pro mouse with 12k DPI, 1000 polling and last time i checked the website for my polling rate it wasnt keeping a consistent 1000. kept going back and forth between 900-1000. Do you think it would be beneficial for me to drop down to 500 Polling and 500hz in game manager? Would that give me more consistent aim (so to speak) Do you think my mouse is fighting to hit a steady 1000 and conflicting with the manager? I dont have any problems playing at the moment, but always looking to improve.


Offline Kahun

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Re: Is high dpi REALLY better ? I dont think so
« Reply #23 on: 12:13 AM - 04/11/18 »
"If Sync doesn't clean up jitter, head to zowie.benq.com/en-eu/support/mouse-rate-checker.html and check if your mouse can hold a steady 1000Hz (many can't and it varies by individual mouse). If it can't, drop both Apex and mouse polling to 500Hz.You won't notice any performance difference between 1ms and 2ms polling."

this is interesting..... im using a logitech G pro mouse with 12k DPI, 1000 polling and last time i checked the website for my polling rate it wasnt keeping a consistent 1000. kept going back and forth between 900-1000. Do you think it would be beneficial for me to drop down to 500 Polling and 500hz in game manager? Would that give me more consistent aim (so to speak) Do you think my mouse is fighting to hit a steady 1000 and conflicting with the manager? I dont have any problems playing at the moment, but always looking to improve.

Mines a consistent 1000hz. Haven't any issues since day 0 and I use retail firmware. I wonder if that is the reason why people experience jitter. But then you said that you are having no problems, are you using beta? Did u have problems before you upgraded?
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Online antithesis

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Re: Is high dpi REALLY better ? I dont think so
« Reply #24 on: 01:05 AM - 04/11/18 »
Would that give me more consistent aim (so to speak) Do you think my mouse is fighting to hit a steady 1000 and conflicting with the manager? I dont have any problems playing at the moment, but always looking to improve.
If your mouse is not holding 1000Hz then you're dropping input, which will likely result in pixel skipping or jitter.

You can use Sync > Default (120fps), Common (60fps) or Slow (30fps) to counter it, or drop both mouse and Apex to 500Hz and leave Sync on Off. Note that changing Sync does not change the speed the Apex communicates with the console.

Offline jalalsami_87

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Re: Is high dpi REALLY better ? I dont think so
« Reply #25 on: 05:05 AM - 04/11/18 »
what if you using Titan two +Xim apex what is the best poling rate is it 1000hz or 500hz

Offline jd394y

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Re: Is high dpi REALLY better ? I dont think so
« Reply #26 on: 11:20 AM - 04/11/18 »
Would that give me more consistent aim (so to speak) Do you think my mouse is fighting to hit a steady 1000 and conflicting with the manager? I dont have any problems playing at the moment, but always looking to improve.
If your mouse is not holding 1000Hz then you're dropping input, which will likely result in pixel skipping or jitter.

You can use Sync > Default (120fps), Common (60fps) or Slow (30fps) to counter it, or drop both mouse and Apex to 500Hz and leave Sync on Off. Note that changing Sync does not change the speed the Apex communicates with the console.


So if im running Xbox X + APEX @ 1000hz + mouse at 12k DPI, 1000 Polling should i be running stuff on Default or common? ive been running at Common. whats the difference if i switched to Default?  also went back to that website and im averaging around 950 polling. so if YOUR opinion what would YOU do? thanks for the help btw

Online Mazen al shami

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Re: Is high dpi REALLY better ? I dont think so
« Reply #27 on: 10:33 PM - 04/11/18 »
Hello again  guyz and im really glad u are there ...... help me plz ... so after i found out tge jittry issue on 1000 or 500 or 250 even though i tried smoothness.... some told that i have to  update since its factory software... so i updated to latest one ... and still jitter ... so i i thought what the hell im gonna go back to 125hz ..... at least no jitter there .... and the surprise was with this update it will jitter even with 125 ...... for the love of god ...... how do i go back into factory frame .... help plz

Offline Razortechrs

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Re: Is high dpi REALLY better ? I dont think so
« Reply #28 on: 11:42 AM - 04/12/18 »
Hello again  guyz and im really glad u are there ...... help me plz ... so after i found out tge jittry issue on 1000 or 500 or 250 even though i tried smoothness.... some told that i have to  update since its factory software... so i updated to latest one ... and still jitter ... so i i thought what the hell im gonna go back to 125hz ..... at least no jitter there .... and the surprise was with this update it will jitter even with 125 ...... for the love of god ...... how do i go back into factory frame .... help plz
Good luck. Everyone says they have no jitter at 1000hz and I think Iíve just gotten use to it. What mouse are you using? Could be a sensor issue or mousepad issue too

Offline ceebs

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Re: Is high dpi REALLY better ? I dont think so
« Reply #29 on: 03:22 AM - 04/13/18 »
12k isn't needed at all it's over kill and marketing hype. I wonder if 12k is suggested because some people play on TV's?

12K DPI is useful when using a 4K screen, but not essential. IMO it is mainly marketing. Cramming more and more pixels into a camera's sensor may improve detail, but it also increases noise. But big numbers sell!
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